Liberals ban Happy Meal toys

[1bad65]

I thought this was America? :eek:

"A California county on Tuesday became the first in the nation to ban toys from fast food kids' meals high in calories, fat, salt and sugar.

Santa Clara County supervisors voted 3-2 to ban the plastic goodies as promotions in meals with more than 485 calories.

County supervisor Ken Yeager said Tuesday that the ordinance "prevents restaurants from preying on children's love of toys to peddle high-calorie, high-fat, high-sodium kids' meals," and would help fight childhood obesity.

"This ordinance breaks the link between unhealthy food and prizes," Yeager said. "Under this ordinance, restaurants are still permitted to give out toys. This ordinance merely imposes very specific, common-sense nutrition standards for children's meals that are linked to these incentives."

The ordinance will ban restaurants from giving away toys with meals that have more than 485 calories, more than 600 milligrams of sodium, more than 35 percent of total calories from fat or more than 10 percent of calories from added sugar. It would also limit toy giveaways on single food items with more than 200 calories or more than 480 milligrams of sodium.

But the decision, which affects about a dozen fast food restaurants in unincorporated areas of Silicon Valley, has angered the California Restaurant Association, which fought the proposal with ads in local newspapers. One asks "Who Made Politicians the Toy Police?" and shows a child in handcuffs in front of a cop.

The group commissioned a poll of local residents that found 80 percent didn't think the toy issue was an important one.

"From our perspective, we were echoing what our customers had to say. Obviously we felt that this proposal was excessive and I think purposely provocative," said Daniel Conway, the association's director of public affairs.

Conway said the association was disappointed local officials didn't come to them before creating the ordinance.

"We try to proactively engage with policy makers at the local level, the state level and the federal level," Conway said. "At the national level, our industry just played a critical role in passing a national menu labeling standard, so that now customers in many restaurants will be able to have in front of them the exact nutritional content of the various menu items."

Yeager said at a press conference Tuesday that he hopes the ordinance will spark other counties and states to pass similar legislation.

Restaurants will have a 90-day grace period beginning May 11 before the ordinance goes into effect."

Source:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/28/fast.food.toys.california/index.html?hpt=C1

Rush predicted this YEARS ago.

First they went after the tobacco companies, then they went after the fast food industry....

What freedom will they come after next? :eek:

[Drake]

Maybe if most of us weren't fat and sick from being processed food companies (ie McDonalds) driving out all of the natural food markets, this wouldn't be an issue.

You give a family a choice of a 99 cent cheeseburger that will kill them later, or raw foods they can't afford due to the market being controlled by processed food manufacturers, and the endstate is obvious.

[Lucas]

just make healthy meals and put the toys in that, that way the kids will cry and scream for some carrots and celery..

[David Jamieson]

Santa Clara County supervisors voted 3-2 to ban the plastic goodies as promotions in meals with more than 485 calories.

read that. Understand it. No? Read it again. Understand it yet?

In other news, legislation is being passed which will ban the consumption of poison by children under 18. :rolleyes:

[kfson]

I thought this was America? :eek:

"A California county on Tuesday became the first in the nation to ban toys from fast food kids' meals high in calories, fat, salt and sugar.

Santa Clara County supervisors voted 3-2 to ban the plastic goodies as promotions in meals with more than 485 calories.



Free Kiddy toys with all tofu meals, FTW in LOCO LAND.

[1bad65]

In other news, legislation is being passed which will ban the consumption of poison by children under 18. :rolleyes:

Get off that crap. The food being sold is legally sold, FDA inspected food.

I'm stunned some of you are ok with the Gov't taking away freedoms like this. Drake, especially you. I thought you fought to protect our freedoms?

That's the thing about freedom. We are free to make good choices, as well as stupid choices.

[David Jamieson]

Get off that crap. The food being sold is legally sold, FDA inspected food.

I'm stunned some of you are ok with the Gov't taking away freedoms like this. Drake, especially you. I thought you fought to protect our freedoms?

That's the thing about freedom. We are free to make good choices, as well as stupid choices.

so you're ok with target marketing cigarettes to children with malleable minds that are highly impressionable?

You are ok with a 65% obesity rate being brought on by consumption of sugars and fats at an all time high?

You're ok with these companies lobbying politicians to keep them in business and allow them to sell these "fda" inspected foods (for whatever that's worth these days)

You seem to be a federalist of convenience. lol

Type 2 diabetes is rampant in your country. Obesity is a real problem and now that you are paying tax dollars into health care, you would think that you would get on board with any preventative measures that could be put forth.

But for the sake of some alleged perceived freedom infringement you see in telling companies to advertise responsibly you're gonna get on board with the greater of 2 evils for the sake of it?

Dude, you aren't free. You're freedom that you go on about is an illusion. It's a lie. It's cake and the cake is a lie. You think you're free but you're not. I personally don't think your average american could handle the reality of freedom. they're happier in their cocoon, protected and not having to think for themselves.

the way you take a stance you would think that every single american is highly educated, able to make complex decisions at the drop of a hat and in complete charge of the world they live in.

well, I don't know if it's news, but I got some for ya, that ain't the way it is.
You are essentially cattle on drugs. Accept it. :)

[solo1]

Im okay with parents making choices for their children not the state. If MCD wants to throw a cheap chinese made toy in a friggin happy meal it is not the business of some snot nosed bureacrat to decide if they can or not, the market will decide. Smaller less intrusive government is better then the mighty hand of a typical douch nozzle in an elected office.

[David Jamieson]

Im okay with parents making choices for their children not the state. If MCD wants to throw a cheap chinese made toy in a friggin happy meal it is not the business of some snot nosed bureacrat to decide if they can or not, the market will decide. Smaller less intrusive government is better then the mighty hand of a typical douch nozzle in an elected office.

? Dude, that makes no sense.

The state has to provide regulatory legislation in regards to what can be sold and how it is advertised. That is the whole point of having governance. It looks after things like infrastructure, food safety, health awareness etc etc.

Most parents apparently aren't these righteous and highly educated individuals. they are regularly shlubs like you and me and when you make it easier for them to make the right choice tehy will.

essentially the bill in question is telling the companies that are doing it to stop using enticing advertising to lure kids into poor food choices.

If you've ever had a kid whining and tugging for some crap that tv personalities excite them about then you know what I'm talking about.

[1bad65]

? Dude, that makes no sense.

It makes no sense to you becuase you are ignorant of what our Constitution says.

[1bad65]

I personally don't think your average american could handle the reality of freedom.

So we need a Kenyan like Barack Obama to help us handle it, right?

[mawali]

This is starting to **** me off!
Let parents make the choice. Save the taxpayers money and vote on more worthwhile issues!

[kfson]

So the liberal government is saying that despite FDA approval, the liberal government, in all it's wisdom, knows better than the parents of their own children.

When is the liberal government to ban such food because adults can't make the right liberal decisions, despite FDA approval?

When will the liberal government make tofu burgers the only legal burgers to serve in public? Of course with liberal government approved toys.

Will this start Speak Easies for Beef Patties?

Will the government start testing for blood cholesterol... if one is above the limit, one has to pay a higher tax?

I could go on for hours.

[Reality_Check]

It's cake and the cake is a lie.

Nice Portal reference.

[Lucas]

stupid people cannot be relied upon to make sound decisions

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I'm glad that no one here is actually in politics. The world would be way more insane than it is now.

[Lucas]

Ya trust me, NO ONE wants to live in the Northern Dominance of the Empire of Lucas.

[SanHeChuan]

Im okay with parents making choices for their children not the state. If MCD wants to throw a cheap chinese made toy in a friggin happy meal it is not the business of some snot nosed bureacrat to decide if they can or not, the market will decide. Smaller less intrusive government is better then the mighty hand of a typical douch nozzle in an elected office.

So parent's should get to decide everything? Kids should get to drink, smoke, and have sex too if their parents say it's ok right? The government steps in and should step in to protect the health and welfare of children, who cannot make smart choices for themselves. 1bad65 has made many comments about how being overweight leads to health problems, so the connection is obvious. Stupid adults can eat themselves to death, children on the other hand need to be protected until they get that right, even from their parents.

You wouldn't want companies to use advertising campaigns for alcohol, cigarette, and sex that target kids. Obesity is an obvious problem. If you are OK with governments protecting kids form the former, why draw the line at the latter?

[1bad65]

It's not the governments right to raise children. It's the parents rights.

Again, freedom means we have the choice to make stupid decisions.

[1bad65]

So San, since you are for the Government passing laws to combat parents not teaching their kids proper nutrition, are we to say you would be for the Government forcefully sterilizing the children of welfare recipients if those kids start having kids they cannot take care of?

After all, according to you if we have a problem and the parents can't fix it, it automatically becomes the Governments right/duty to fix the problem, right?

Like I asked earlier, who will the Government come after next.....:eek:

[SanHeChuan]

It's not the governments right to raise children. It's the parents rights.

Again, freedom means we have the choice to make stupid decisions.

Yes stupid decisions for yourself, when you make stupid decisions that hurt other people it's against the law. Freedom is also being protected from other people. Or should we just let drunk drivers run rampant through the streets, hey it's their choice right? Sometimes the people you need to be protected from are your own parents.

Are you saying the government shouldn't protect children from abuse by their parents?


So San, since you are for the Government passing laws to combat parents not teaching their kids proper nutrition, are we to say you would be for the Government forcefully sterilizing the children of welfare recipients if those kids start having kids they cannot take care of?

Only a republican would think that would be a good solution. Is it only welfare recipients who have underage children having kids? Which do you think is the problem, that babies are having babies, or that they are on welfare?

[Lucas]

unfortunately we cant pin point all the ignorant parents that simply DONT educate, or make wise decision for their children.

some people dont know this, but there are kids out there that DO need to be protected from their parents. I was one of those kids.

but hey, we should just let kids suffer because some people havnt had to experience the other side of the tracks, right?

im all for keeping stupid ass people from kililng their kids and ruining their future.

[solo1]

No the point is that any time a bureaucrat gets involved they always believe they have the right to meddle "for the better good". Because a few parents out there are lousy parents does not give the government the right to meddle in a familes affairs. Where does it end, and who draws the line? historically anytime the government involves itself with anything it screws it up or exploits the original intent of the office. We started out taxing incomes of "some number that was huge for the time" at 1% to finance a war, that effected John Rockefeller. Today they confiscate 40% of everyones income. It is incremental and slow but it happens every time. Social engineering ideas are the same thing in a differant dress.

[Reality_Check]

No the point is that any time a bureaucrat gets involved they always believe they have the right to meddle "for the better good". Because a few parents out there are lousy parents does not give the government the right to meddle in a familes affairs. Where does it end, and who draws the line? historically anytime the government involves itself with anything it screws it up or exploits the original intent of the office. We started out taxing incomes of "some number that was huge for the time" at 1% to finance a war, that effected John Rockefeller. Today they confiscate 40% of everyones income. It is incremental and slow but it happens every time. Social engineering ideas are the same thing in a differant dress.

Well, wouldn't the recent abortion laws in Oklahoma be meddling in families' affairs?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/okla-abortion-law-exceptions-rape/story?id=10507849


But under a new law in Oklahoma, women like Casteix, who have been sexually assaulted, will be forced to undergo a second trauma. The law requires them to undergo a sonogram, and depending on the state of pregnancy, it could be a transvaginal one, which involves insertion of a wand.

The doctor must then turn the screen towards her and describe fetal dimensions and details like the number of fingers and toes and heart activity.

There are no exemptions for victims of rape and incest.


The Oklahoma legislature approved a second law that prohibits women from seeking damages if a physician withholds information or provides inaccurate information about a pregnancy.

[SnowDog]

I saw this last night...... I couldn't beleive the part where they basically allow the Dr to lie to the patient, and then they are immune to being sued. WTF????

[Drake]

It's not the governments right to raise children. It's the parents rights.

Again, freedom means we have the choice to make stupid decisions.

Obesity is a national pandemic. Don't confuse freedom with "we can do whatever the hell we want". You DON'T have the right to make stupid decisions. You can't drive your car at 120mph down a busy street. You can't smoke in a hospital. You can't lace your house with TNT to see how it works.

They aren't BANNING McDonalds, but they ARE making it more difficult for them to poison our youth, who already are suffering from an unprecedented level of obesity. This is what is killing the republican party. Arguing this crap just for the sake of arguing about our "freedoms". This is no different from Camel being regulated for using a fun cartoon character to market cigarettes.

Just because you don't comprehend the danger and toxicity of processed, fast food, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. AND this stuff is killing the heart of our nation. Free range ranchers, farmers, all being driven out of business by industrial farms. People who are ranching and farming the RIGHT way. There's a nasty underbelly to this business, and if you support that to any degree, 1Bad, I am afraid I can't discuss this with you, because that underbelly is everything republicans and libertarians are supposed to hate. It's corporate socialism, and it's far worse than anything your antichrist Pres. Obama could ever do.

[MasterKiller]

I dont' agree with most advertising to children, so I don't buy products that advertise in a manner I don't agree with.

That's how you solve these issues in America. Parents need to take more responsibility for their kids diets. It's not like this is a school lunch program where kids have limited choices. Kids can only get McDonalds when their parents willingly take them there. I NEVER take my kids to McDonalds. We go to Chik-Fil-A when we eat fast food because their kids' meals come with fruit and a coupon for free ice cream, giving me the choice of whether or not to allow my kids to have it.

In America, you have the right to kill yourself with a fatty diet. That's a fact.

[kfson]

There are healthier decisions, most of my bought lunches are at Suubwaay.


I sure would like a hotwheels car or even a hot chick with my meal, though.

[KC Elbows]

Companies shouldn't be allowed to advertise anything but entertainment to children, period. Children are not free citizens, their rights are limited, and people's rights in regards to them is limited as well, for good reason. And ads that are ostensibly to the parents, but are really trying to get the kids to pressure their parents, are dispicable, and teach all the wrong values to those kids.

[1bad65]

Obesity is a national pandemic. Don't confuse freedom with "we can do whatever the hell we want". You DON'T have the right to make stupid decisions. You can't drive your car at 120mph down a busy street. You can't smoke in a hospital. You can't lace your house with TNT to see how it works.


Because those affect others. Eating yourself to death only affects you.

[1bad65]

In America, you have the right to kill yourself with a fatty diet. That's a fact.

100% correct.

Of course liberals in California disagree with us.

[MasterKiller]

Because those affect others. Eating yourself to death only affects you.

Well, not really. As you have pointed out several times, health care costs in America are drastically affected by the obesity epidemic, which raises insurance premiums for everyone.

[kfson]

Well, not really. As you have pointed out several times, health care costs in America are drastically affected by the obesity epidemic, which raises insurance premiums for everyone.

So, should healthy people pay for those who became sick because of long term bad health decisions?

[MasterKiller]

So, should healthy people pay for those who became sick because of long term bad health decisions?

Like it or not, private insurance is socialized health care ran for a profit.

[1bad65]

Like it or not, private insurance is socialized health care ran for a profit.

But we used to be able to choose to opt out of private insurance. Now the Party of "pro-choice" has forced us all to participate.

[Drake]

When 75% of my countrymen are obese, it DOES affect me. How could it NOT? But you can turn a blind eye to the correlating facts about fast food and how it is single-handedly destroying our nation, and by all means, back up the processed food industry. I can't possibly make you any less ignorant to the damage being done around you. So yeah... whine about your freedoms being ripped from your hands as the fast food industry does it for you.

[MasterKiller]

But we used to be able to choose to opt out of private insurance. Now the Party of "pro-choice" has forced us all to participate.

Well, I don't like being forced to wear my seat-belt just because it saves insurance companies money, either.

[1bad65]

When 75% of my countrymen are obese, it DOES affect me. How could it NOT? But you can turn a blind eye to the correlating facts about fast food and how it is single-handedly destroying our nation, and by all means, back up the processed food industry. I can't possibly make you any less ignorant to the damage being done around you. So yeah... whine about your freedoms being ripped from your hands as the fast food industry does it for you.

The fast food industry can't take my freedoms away. Liberal Democrats are.

Face it Drake, what we eat is a choice.

[1bad65]

Well, I don't like being forced to wear my seat-belt just because it saves insurance companies money, either.

Nor do I. Ann Richards signed our law into effect. I remember how she lied about how officers would not be stopping people strictly for seat belt violations. Yet the moment it passed, she came out and said law enforcement can't turn a blind eye to lawbreaking. I was only a teenager when that happened. I learned at a young age that liberals usually have to lie to get their agenda passed.

[Drake]

The fast food industry can't take my freedoms away. Liberal Democrats are.

Face it Drake, what we eat is a choice.

Face it. You are seriously confusing the issue. I've stated it. It's up to you to figure it out. McDonald's ISN'T BEING BANNED. They are making POISON less appealing to kids. I can't believe you are supporting McDonalds. It's like you WANT them to continue making our country ill.

The same point you make is the same one letting those people protest at soldiers' funerals. Allowing poison to enter our nation using the false choice fallacy as bait.

[Lucas]

it all starts with the little junk food. bits here and there. first trying your big macs and french fries, then seeing the adds and tempting you for more, then the ease of the drive through the convenience of price and location....its just like your neighborhood crack dealer. and no, im not joking one bit.

gate way junk food. then comes the full bown fast food ADDICTION, thats right addiction. refute that if you want, you would be wrong. so sorry.

[Drake]

it all starts with the little junk food. bits here and there. first trying your big macs and french fries, then seeing the adds and tempting you for more, then the ease of the drive through the convenience of price and location....its just like your neighborhood crack dealer. and no, im not joking one bit.

gate way junk food. then comes the full bown fast food ADDICTION, thats right addiction. refute that if you want, you would be wrong. so sorry.

Or... more specifically, it starts with Happy Meals

[David Jamieson]

i would say that those who think that freedom is a gateway to irresponsible behaviours need to check themselves and what it is they are advocating.

If a 3 year old is given cocaine and likes it and wants more, how do you feel about that? How about a 6 years old? what about a teen? an adult?

Is it really a choice after they have become addicted?

Do the advocates of freedom understand how conditioning works? Mental conditioning? Perhaps not as you seem to have been subjected to it yourselves! lol

Do you think it's fair to parents to deluge their kids with advertising that is designed to have the kids behave in a desired pattern? Are you ok with that?
Are you ok with disappointing your child because you make a choice that is counter to the popular culture of the kid?

what do you want to change? the popular culture of the ignorant who all too willingly will make bad choices based upon how they think they are perceived?

or to let the child fall into the behavioural patterns as dictated by popular culture mechanisms such as advertising in an effort to sell the child something by proxy through you?

what is it that you aren't getting here?

Does your constitution really say that it's ok to manipulate the behaviours of children through mass media advertising and totally unhealthy practices in the name of making a corporation more money because they have to recycle a rapidly dying consumer base?

It's ok to use cartoon characters to sell cigarettes because the constitution says so even though it is known that psychologically, this is appealing to children and steers their behaviours into peer culture of smoking?

the constitution doesn't say anything about it and it's not a constitutional issue. It's about regulating what message corporations can or cannot send to the countries children without the parents permission.

still not getting it?

lemme put it simply.

If you think that you are completely and totally in control of all the decisions you make in your life, think again. your core belief system that is what causes you to make virtually all your judgment calls and moral decisions was NOT formed by you at all. It was formed by the major influences on you in your early childhood.

not understanding this aspect of humanity is p[probably why a few of you don't understand the logic of the law that's been put forth and throws you into a political tailspin over it because you cannot comprehend that you are not actually the one who is in control of your own life or mind at the root of it.

Your brainwashing is merely outweighing some other form of it. :p

[1bad65]

Face it. You are seriously confusing the issue. I've stated it. It's up to you to figure it out. McDonald's ISN'T BEING BANNED. They are making POISON less appealing to kids. I can't believe you are supporting McDonalds. It's like you WANT them to continue making our country ill.

What part of "It's not poison, its a legal, FDA-inspected product suitable for human consumption" are you not getting?

Tanning is unhealthy, do we ban that? Tattoos can get infected, do we ban them? Caffienated drinks and coffee are unhealthy, do we ban them? Alcohol is unhealthy, do we ban that?

[1bad65]

If a 3 year old is given cocaine and likes it and wants more, how do you feel about that? How about a 6 years old? what about a teen? an adult?

Cocaine is an illegal substance. Hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not. Well, not yet....

[David Jamieson]

Cocaine is an illegal substance. Hamburgers and chicken nuggets are not. Well, not yet....

I'm not talking about legality, I'm talking about healthy or not.

and fast food is about as healthy as cocaine consumption when it comes right down to it.

have you ever seen supersize me?

you wonder why mcdonalds can't take that out of rotation?
I'll tell you why, because it's true. Every single word of it.

it forced change in that company when it showed.
It also forced change in other companies because it exposed them for the death merchants they are.

these are not normal burgers man. the processing includes ammonia bleaching for cripes sake. You do that with a steak at your house? me neither.

there's plenty of things that are legal that are downright bad for you.

while rule of law is necessary, it is not a measure by which we can determine morality. morality is the first thing to get bypassed when it comes to law and how it relates to fast food companies, or other unethical companies such as oil companies that are too cheap to do their exploration properly, or gun companies that sell small arms to warlords, legally, or ...well, I could go on, but I think the point is made.

if people are too thick to understand, then i don't see how they are bright enough to make good choices.

do i think the average citizen is ignorant? You betcha. I myself, though quite educated don't know a warehouse full of stuff about a great deal of topics.

[Drake]

What part of "It's not poison, its a legal, FDA-inspected product suitable for human consumption" are you not getting?

Tanning is unhealthy, do we ban that? Tattoos can get infected, do we ban them? Caffienated drinks and coffee are unhealthy, do we ban them? Alcohol is unhealthy, do we ban that?

Is 75% of the population giving themselves skin cancer from tanning booths? 75% of us alcoholics?

What part of pandemic are you failing to get?

[David Jamieson]

1bad, you are getting carried away and building strawmen ...again.

No one is banning the crap food.
there is legislation on the table to ban the unscrupulous practice of luring children to poor diet choices by going after their entertainment desire.

That is the whole point of a happy meal isn't it?

And judging by the pandemic of obesity in your nation, you think that your fellow countrymen are capable of making good choices about food for their kids?

I know that's a bit harsh, but so what. I don't have as much faith in people to act or do the right thing. What can I say, I hope for the best, but it didn't work out and now there is a need for legal action in order to alter behaviours.

[SoCo KungFu]

I think its awesome. Hell if it were up to me, civilians would be required to meet physical fitness standards and conduct PT regularly just like we do in the military. I'm tired of busting my ass trying to lift 300lbs lard asses into an ambulance. Or my firefighter friends having unnecessary extra risk placed on their own lives because they got an obese family that all need to be carried out unconscious from a burning home because they were too out of shape to make it 20 feet from their sofa to the front door...

[kfson]

Is 75% of the population giving themselves skin cancer from tanning booths? 75% of us alcoholics?

What part of pandemic are you failing to get?

So why should we trust the government to ban toys from fast foods???
Seems like mixed messages here or not?

[David Jamieson]

So why should we trust the government to ban toys from fast foods???
Seems like mixed messages here or not?

Do you trust McDonalds to feed your kids properly?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I love McD's french fries :D
My little ones love their chicken nuggets, but I removes the skin off of them before they eat it.
They may have McD's maybe 2-3 times a month.
I like their fajitas and their grilled chicken, sometimes I will even have their cheeseburger with only lettuce and tomato and then workout for 2 hours to burn it off !!
LMAO !!

[kfson]

Do you trust McDonalds to feed your kids properly?

Do I trust the government to tell me how to feed my kids properly?

[kfson]

I love McD's french fries :D
My little ones love their chicken nuggets, but I removes the skin off of them before they eat it.
They may have McD's maybe 2-3 times a month.
I like their fajitas and their grilled chicken, sometimes I will even have their cheeseburger with only lettuce and tomato and then workout for 2 hours to burn it off !!
LMAO !!

http://www.benisy.com/image/clog.jpg

http://freehosting.tomaweb.com/quitsmoking/images/artery.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.benisy.com/image/clog.jpg

http://freehosting.tomaweb.com/quitsmoking/images/artery.jpg

Mmmmm, yummy !
:D

[David Jamieson]

Do I trust the government to tell me how to feed my kids properly?

Your government isn't telling you how to feed them. Not sure how you thought that.

In context to this thread it's(government) telling a corporation to stop using advertising tactics which make it difficult for parents to make decisions on food choices for their kids.

[1bad65]

Do you trust McDonalds to feed your kids properly?

It's a friggin CHOICE to go up there and eat!!!

What part of personal responsibility is so hard to grasp???

And it's not like it's cheaper to eat at McDonalds vs eating at home. It's a choice people should have the freedom to make. Why do you think people like you should have the right to tell others what they can and cant eat?

[Reality_Check]

It's a friggin CHOICE to go up there and eat!!!

What part of personal responsibility is so hard to grasp???

And what part of "children are too young to make that choice and can't grasp personal responsibility so why direct advertising towards them" are you not getting? Parents can still choose to take their children to McDonalds. The kids just won't get a toy.

[1bad65]

1bad, you are getting carried away and building strawmen ...again.

No one is banning the crap food.

Actually they are. See, you learn something every day when I'm around. ;)

"New York’s restaurants could be banned from adding salt to food as part of the city’s latest health crackdown. Politicians are voting on a bill that, if passed, would see restaurateurs fined $1,000 (£660) each time they were caught adding the condiment to food."

Source:
http://article.wn.com/view/2010/03/12/New_York_restaurants_face_salt_ban_in_new_health_b ill_causin/

"The Board of Health voted Tuesday to make New York the nation’s first city to ban artery-clogging artificial trans fats at restaurants — from the corner pizzeria to high-end bakeries."

Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16051436/

[1bad65]

And what part of "children are too young to make that choice and can't grasp personal responsibility so why direct advertising towards them" are you not getting? Parents can still choose to take their children to McDonalds. The kids just won't get a toy.

So the children now decide where they eat? :rolleyes:

It's the parents responsibility. People like you disgust me. Let me live my **** life how I want, and you live yours how you want. What's wrong with that?

[Reality_Check]

Do I trust the government to tell me how to feed my kids properly?

They already do. It's called the food pyramid. Do you not trust that?

[Reality_Check]

So the children now decide where they eat? :rolleyes:

Apparently, you don't have children or spend much time around them. They can be very demanding little buggers.

[1bad65]

Apparently, you don't have children or spend much time around them. They can be very demanding little buggers.

I learned to shut up when I was told 'No'. Again though, that's the parents responsibility to teach their kids that.

[1bad65]

They already do. It's called the food pyramid. Do you not trust that?

It's a recommendation, not a law. Well, not yet....

[Reality_Check]

It's a recommendation, not a law. Well, not yet....

It still tells people how to properly feed their children, does it not?

Do you trust that the food pyramid is providing good information regarding nutrition?

[SanHeChuan]

My little ones love their chicken nuggets, but I removes the skin off of them before they eat it.



Chicken (45%), Coating [Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Sunflower), Wheat Flour, Water (8%), Maize Flour, Modified Starch, Raising Agents (Disodium Diphosphate, Sodium Bicarbonate), Whey Powder (from Milk), Flavour Enhancer (Potassium Chloride), Egg Albumen (Free Range Egg), Ground Pepper, Breadcrumb (Wheat Flour, Salt), Salt, Dextrose, Ground Celery], Water (7%), Potato Starch, Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Sunflower), Natural Flavouring (from Free Range Egg), Flavour Enhancer (Potassium Chloride). Prepared in the restaurants using a non-hydrogenated vegetable oil.


Disodium Diphosphate

Other uses
In leather treatment, it can be used to remove iron stains on hides during processing. It can stabilize hydrogen peroxide solutions against reduction; it can be used with sulfamic acid in some dairy applications for cleaning, especially to remove soapstone. When added to the scalding water, it facilitates removal of hair and scurf in hog slaughter and feathers and scurf in poultry slaughter. In petroleum production, it can be used as a dispersant in oil well drilling muds.


Potassium Chloride
KCl is used in medicine, scientific applications, food processing and in judicial execution through lethal injection.



Exposing McDonalds: "Chicken" Nuggets (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/195157/exposing_mcdonalds_chicken_nuggets.html?cat=5)

There are 38 ingredients in the McDonalds "chicken" nuggets.

Interestingly, perhaps even moreso than the above, are ingredients actually purchased from chemical plants that go into the "chicken" nuggets.

Aluminum phosphate and calcium lactate help prevent the rancid vegetable fats in the nuggets from starting to rot visibly and starting to smell disgusting.
Dimethylpolysioxene is added to the oil to prevent starches (and, as you can see, starches aren't just present in the nuggets--they're outright abundant.) from binding.

Problem: this chemical is a carcinogen.

What's more--and you'll like this--it's actually flammable.

Tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ) is derived from petroleum and is an antioxidant that is actually sprayed directly on the nugget most of the time to preserve freshness. For those of you familiar with TBHQ, it will come as no surprise to you that TBHQ is a form of butane. Butane is lighter fluid.

;):D:eek::p

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, at least it isn't dihydrogen oxide !!
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html


:eek:

[David Jamieson]

It's a friggin CHOICE to go up there and eat!!!

What part of personal responsibility is so hard to grasp???

And it's not like it's cheaper to eat at McDonalds vs eating at home. It's a choice people should have the freedom to make. Why do you think people like you should have the right to tell others what they can and cant eat?

again with the straw man, except this time you are accusing me of making the legislation? and you are still saying they are banning the food, which they aren't. In fact no one is banning any food.

you are weird dude.

nobody is banning the food. what is on the table is the unscrupulous advertising tactics and whether or not that should be allowed.

so, again, no one is stopping anyone from making poor food choices, but there is guidance being placed around advertising tactics that lure children into poor food choices which then they transmit to their parents who may or may not have the proper insight into feeding their kids and the toy makes it harder for the parents to parent becaus ethe child will insist with utter ignorance and so on.

As for your argument about the salt in new york, that is so lame, i don't know where to start.

anyway, the ban is putting toys as advertising into food that is not a good choice nutritionally. It's not a ban on the food.

It is still your choice to feed your children poorly, just, they aren't gonna get a toy with that.

[Reality_Check]

People like you disgust me.

And thus comes the ad hominem.

[kfson]

again with the straw man, except this time you are accusing me of making the legislation? and you are still saying they are banning the food, which they aren't. In fact no one is banning any food.

you are weird dude.

nobody is banning the food. what is on the table is the unscrupulous advertising tactics and whether or not that should be allowed.

so, again, no one is stopping anyone from making poor food choices, but there is guidance being placed around advertising tactics that lure children into poor food choices which then they transmit to their parents who may or may not have the proper insight into feeding their kids and the toy makes it harder for the parents to parent becaus ethe child will insist with utter ignorance and so on.

As for your argument about the salt in new york, that is so lame, i don't know where to start.

anyway, the ban is putting toys as advertising into food that is not a good choice nutritionally. It's not a ban on the food.

It is still your choice to feed your children poorly, just, they aren't gonna get a toy with that.


"unscrupulous advertising tactics"

http://www.rageboy.com/mbimages/svengali.jpg
http://www.palaeos.com/Fungi/Ascomycota/Images/Svengali.jpg

[Drake]

75% of Americans are obese. Most teens are not fit for military service. The private ranchers are being driven out of business by corporate farms chock full of disease and unhealthy working conditions. Corporate socialism is destroying the very fabric of the rural midwest. Kids are getting fat, sick, and Type II Diabetes is the newest health trend. The public is being lied to, mislead, and generally raised from birth indoctrinated into a culture of fatty, processed, sugary foods, and the adult population is too stupid to do anything about it.

F^&% you and your Happy Meal toys.

[kfson]

Please G#d, don't let the advertising or government people brainwash me and make me do something I don't want to do. Also G#d, I can't control my little children. G#d, I'm waiting to come into your perfect world.

[Drake]

Please G#d, don't let the advertising or government people brainwash me and make me do something I don't want to do. Also G#d, I can't control my little children. G#d, I'm waiting to come into your perfect world.

Whatever... all the fat kids already proved that adults can't take care of their children, much less themselves. So no, my facetious friend, you CAN'T control your children, and it's already been proven.

[sanjuro_ronin]

jeez people, if someone wants to have a freaking hamburger once and awhile, what's the big freaking deal ?
If kids are getting obese from too much junk food ( I am sure it is NOT ONLY Mcd's) and way too little activity then it is the parents only fault for raising fat and inactive asswipe kids !

[Drake]

jeez people, if someone wants to have a freaking hamburger once and awhile, what's the big freaking deal ?
If kids are getting obese from too much junk food ( I am sure it is NOT ONLY Mcd's) and way too little activity then it is the parents only fault for raising fat and inactive asswipe kids !

And we pay for it. With or without the evil universal healthcare.

[Drake]

1991
http://www.foodgeekery.com/fullimg/obesity1991.jpg

and now...

2009
http://www.foodgeekery.com/fullimg/obesity2009.jpg

And you expect me to believe that people know how to properly feed themselves or their children?

[sanjuro_ronin]

And we pay for it. With or without the evil universal healthcare.

Part and parcel of being part of a society bro.

[sanjuro_ronin]

1991
http://www.foodgeekery.com/fullimg/obesity1991.jpg

and now...

2009
http://www.foodgeekery.com/fullimg/obesity2009.jpg

And you expect me to believe that people know how to properly feed themselves or their children?

Dude, you know how that works, Americans love big things and no one wants to have the skinny kid !
He's not fat, he's big boned or husky !
He's big strapping lad !!
Got change the attitude before you can fix the problem.

[Drake]

That or the kid wants a toy, and they are easy to get with a "HAPPY!!!" Meal.

[1bad65]

Do you trust that the food pyramid is providing good information regarding nutrition?

Yes it does. Of course whether we choose to follow it or ignore it is a choice we have the freedom to make. For now....

[kfson]

Whatever... all the fat kids already proved that adults can't take care of their children, much less themselves. So no, my facetious friend, you CAN'T control your children, and it's already been proven.

We're all a bunch of losers... we should all kill ourselves or submit to government slavery for testing.

One day we will all look the same, act the same, talk the same, and think the same..... oh and maybe all die on the same day.

[1bad65]

In fact no one is banning any food.

nobody is banning the food. what is on the table is the unscrupulous advertising tactics and whether or not that should be allowed.

I guess you can't read. :rolleyes:

I posted links showing they have done just that.

[1bad65]

Look, I'm not defending McDonalds as some great place to get nutritious food. If I had kids, I'd only take them there on rare occasions. But again, that's my choice.

I think we should be free to make our own decisions. They may be stupid, they may make us fat, they may make us die sooner, but it's our **** choice.

[Drake]

Look, I'm not defending McDonalds as some great place to get nutritious food. If I had kids, I'd only take them there on rare occasions. But again, that's my choice.

I think we should be free to make our own decisions. They may be stupid, they may make us fat, they may make us die sooner, but it's our **** choice.

Then why can't it be our choice to snort cocaine? You are interpreting McDonalds as "not bad" because nobody made any laws about it until now. And honestly, it's too little too late.

When it is virtually singlehandedly destroying our way of life, it's a big effin deal.

[kfson]

Dear President Obama:

What should I eat for lunch today?


Humbly seeking your guidance,
kfson

[sanjuro_ronin]

That or the kid wants a toy, and they are easy to get with a "HAPPY!!!" Meal.

You know, you can buy the toy with NO meal, I do that all the time.

[David Jamieson]

I guess you can't read. :rolleyes:

I posted links showing they have done just that.

No you didn't. You posted an article about a frivolous suggestion about a salt ban in new york neighborhoods.

weaseling, is what you've just done and you are known for it. :p

[1bad65]

Then why can't it be our choice to snort cocaine? You are interpreting McDonalds as "not bad" because nobody made any laws about it until now. And honestly, it's too little too late.

When it is virtually singlehandedly destroying our way of life, it's a big effin deal.

I'm all for legalizing drugs. I'm all for free choice concerning your own body.

I'm no hypocrite.

[1bad65]

No you didn't. You posted an article about a frivolous suggestion about a salt ban in new york neighborhoods.

weaseling, is what you've just done and you are known for it. :p

You must have missed the trans-fats article I posted. :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

You must have missed the trans-fats article I posted. :rolleyes:

the banning of transfats is international. transfats are not food dude, they are additives that addict you to a product.

like the nicotine part of the cigarette.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: 2x for you bud.

[1bad65]

And you expect me to believe that people know how to properly feed themselves or their children?

So if society suddenly has a problem properly tying their shoes, we need the Government to outlaw shoes with laces?

[1bad65]

the banning of transfats is international. transfats are not food dude, they are additives that addict you to a product.

like the nicotine part of the cigarette.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: 2x for you bud.

Trans-fats are an ingredient in food. It's close enough.

Just wait til the Government starts banning things that you enjoy....

[David Jamieson]

Trans-fats are an ingredient in food. It's close enough.

Just wait til the Government starts banning things that you enjoy....

there are lots of things that I might enjoy which are already banned or declared illegal. I"m sure there's a good reason for it. :) On others, well, laws can be changed.

[Reality_Check]

Trans-fats are an ingredient in food. It's close enough.

Just wait til the Government starts banning things that you enjoy....

You enjoy Happy Meal toys?

[David Jamieson]

Trans-fats are an ingredient in food. It's close enough.

Just wait til the Government starts banning things that you enjoy....

trans fats are an unnecessary ingredient put into food in order to lure you back to it.
also, high fructose corn syrup is a dangerous ingredient that many companies use for sweetening their products due to americas massive corn production glut.

the fructose corn syrup is worse because it desensitizes leptin and is a cause of obesity. It deadens a chemical function within us that tells us we are full, but we are always feeling hungry because the corn syrup is playing havoc with the Leptin that is trying to do it's job.

take the five minutes to go through your cupboard. are you surprised that so many products contain this sweet tasty poison? it's fda approved though so it must be ok right? and why is the fda making choices for you? surely you aren't stupid enough to eat that e-coli infected burger are you?

gimme a break on the responsible choices issue. regulation is required to keep babies from drinking poisons. It is also required to keep poisons out of the food system because hey, we can't all be micro-biologists and we don't all have the gear to properly study food, we just have to take the word of whoever sells it to us that its ok.

[SanHeChuan]

I think we should be free to make our own decisions. They may be stupid, they may make us fat, they may make us die sooner, but it's our **** choice.

The law does not take away the choice of the consumer. You can still buy and happy meal and you can still buy a toy. So what's your point again? :rolleyes:

Even the salt ban is increasing choice for the consumer. It is providing the option for people to have low sodium meals. If you want more salt you can add however much you want, instead of having the restaurant choose for you.

It’s much easier to add things you want that it is to take them out.

How the F*** am I suppose to get trans-fat out of my food?

You must be a corporate shill because you are arguing to let the company feed you whatever they want, corperate freedom not personal freedom. ;)

[David Jamieson]

The law does not take away the choice of the consumer. You can still buy and happy meal and you can still buy a toy. So what's your point again? :rolleyes:

Even the salt ban is increasing choice for the consumer. It is providing the option for people to have low sodium meals. If you want more salt you can add however much you want, instead of having the restaurant choose for you.

It’s much easier to add things you want that it is to take them out.

How the F*** am I suppose to get trans-fat out of my food?

You must be a corporate shill because you are arguing to let the company feed you whatever they want, corperate freedom not personal freedom. ;)

1bad65 has taken the position of being the devils advocate for everything that is wrong with America.

Almost everything he argues in favour of is either morally or ethically questionable.

It's quite funny. I'll bet he's a huge hypocrite on his own turf. :p

[kfson]

trans fats are an unnecessary ingredient put into food in order to lure you back to it.
also, high fructose corn syrup is a dangerous ingredient that many companies use for sweetening their products due to americas massive corn production glut.

the fructose corn syrup is worse because it desensitizes leptin and is a cause of obesity. It deadens a chemical function within us that tells us we are full, but we are always feeling hungry because the corn syrup is playing havoc with the Leptin that is trying to do it's job.

take the five minutes to go through your cupboard. are you surprised that so many products contain this sweet tasty poison? it's fda approved though so it must be ok right? and why is the fda making choices for you? surely you aren't stupid enough to eat that e-coli infected burger are you?

gimme a break on the responsible choices issue. regulation is required to keep babies from drinking poisons. It is also required to keep poisons out of the food system because hey, we can't all be micro-biologists and we don't all have the gear to properly study food, we just have to take the word of whoever sells it to us that its ok.

Trans fats are naturally occurring, also.

[SanHeChuan]

Trans fats are naturally occurring, also.


the largest amount of trans fat consumed today is created by the processed food industry as a side-effect of partially hydrogenating unsaturated plant fats (generally vegetable oils). These partially-hydrogenated fats have displaced natural solid fats and liquid oils in many areas, notably in the fast food, snack food, fried food and baked goods industries.

..................

[kfson]

..................

Point established.

[1bad65]

You must be a corporate shill because you are arguing to let the company feed you whatever they want, corperate freedom not personal freedom. ;)

I don't let them feed me what they want. I CHOOSE what I eat.

Yet you want the Government to choose what you are allowed to eat.:confused:

[1bad65]

1bad65 has taken the position of being the devils advocate for everything that is wrong with America.

Almost everything he argues in favour of is either morally or ethically questionable.

It's quite funny. I'll bet he's a huge hypocrite on his own turf. :p

No, I have taken the position of the guy defending personal freedom.

You say its "morally or ethically questionable". Who decides that? :eek:

[Drake]

I don't let them feed me what they want. I CHOOSE what I eat.

Yet you want the Government to choose what you are allowed to eat.:confused:

If corporate socialism is killing all the competition, then you don't really have a choice, do you?

[Drake]

So if society suddenly has a problem properly tying their shoes, we need the Government to outlaw shoes with laces?

What if irresponsible corporations ran out all other lacing companies and put out a dangerous shoelace that was killing people in droves?

[1bad65]

If corporate socialism is killing all the competition, then you don't really have a choice, do you?

How so? I can go to several grocery chains; Albertsons, HEB, Wal-Mart, Randalls. I can go to several organic places too; Whole Foods Market, HEB Central Market. And I can eat out at tons of different places. We even have Chipotle fast food places here. They serve healthy, organic fast food. I have plenty of choices. Of course if the Governemt starts banning some places, my choices will decrease.

[1bad65]

What if irresponsible corporations ran out all other lacing companies and put out a dangerous shoelace that was killing people in droves?

So McDonalds is the only game in town now? :rolleyes:

[Drake]

So McDonalds is the only game in town now? :rolleyes:

Of course not...you have a number of processed food dealers out there, all ready to serve you the cheapest food on the market.

To quote a local ranch shop... there's a reason that cheeseburger is only a dollar.

But whatever... I know whose side you are on. It's disgusting. Why not feed the babies antifreeze while you're at it. It's your choice, right?

[David Jamieson]

No, I have taken the position of the guy defending personal freedom.

You say its "morally or ethically questionable". Who decides that? :eek:

So, for some reason I continued talking at the wall, which occasionally would awaken and talk back about something. Usually unrelated.

Well, your personal freedom has nothing to do with advertising to children. Is it personal freedom to draw people into a charade through nefarious measures in order to give them something bad for them and then take their money for it?

Is this the personal freedom you support. The personal freedom to feed crap to children to exploit their desires to manipulate them with their own desires in the name of making a buck for yourself? Is that your version of personal freedom to be defended?

Morals and Ethics are components of the society at large. The society at large through it's representation in it's houses of law have decided that it's not a good idea to manipulate the desires of children by directing advertising at them in order to sell them a commodity.

Capitalism allowed to run rampant is just as bad as allowing an authoritarian dictator to run rampant or communism. It eventually becomes an oppressive factor that traps people in a corner.

I personally do not support the idea of a profit driven model for a nation and therefore support the regulation of business and how it is carried out in a nation.
This is a regulation I also support because I see it (advertising to children) as unethical and immoral. That's how I see it. The way you are arguing for it, I cannot agree with because I see that as what is wrong.

Ultimately, you have already lost though because those toys are getting pulled and all you can do is screech and cry foul. IN the end, it may be a small factor, but anything that helps in keeping kids healthy, I'm for it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lest be honest here, kids and people eat at Mc'd's because they like the food, it is quick and cheap.
It has zero to do with toys because you can just buy the toys and NOT buy any food.
If the USA has a problem with fat people they need to look a lot deeper then fast food as the cause.

[David Jamieson]

Lest be honest here, kids and people eat at Mc'd's because they like the food, it is quick and cheap.
It has zero to do with toys because you can just buy the toys and NOT buy any food.
If the USA has a problem with fat people they need to look a lot deeper then fast food as the cause.

That's true.
there are many factors at play and there are many fields of discipline that each supply a part. Making the connections is less and less difficult each year.

Nutrition and behavioural science are two separate disciplines that need to get together on this. As well, the medical associations need to speak up about the incredible amount of sugar and fats that are put into processed foods and that people are more inclined towards the processed food than choosing good food and cooking it for themselves etc.

If you could watch from start to finish how a happy meal is created, it would be safe to say that you would seriously reconsider ever eating at McDonalds again. lol

If you could see the process, I'm certain you would probably want next to nothing to do with the result.

People like it because it's fatty, sweet and salty at the same time. It is that way for a reason. It is certainly not good for you. Any doctor will tell you that.
Occasionally? sure, regularly? You are making poor choices for your health if you are regularly eating fast food.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you could watch from start to finish how a happy meal is created, it would be safe to say that you would seriously reconsider ever eating at McDonalds again. lol

Have seen it, not pleasant, that;s for sure, but then again, I worked in a slaughter house for a month.
OI VEY !!!

[1bad65]

Of course not...you have a number of processed food dealers out there, all ready to serve you the cheapest food on the market.

To quote a local ranch shop... there's a reason that cheeseburger is only a dollar.

But whatever... I know whose side you are on. It's disgusting. Why not feed the babies antifreeze while you're at it. It's your choice, right?

Drake, I just named several choices I have that do not sell processed food. And anti-freeze is a poison not meant for human consumption. The FDA inspected food McDonalds sells is food fit for human consumption. Let's not get ridiculous here.

[David Jamieson]

Have seen it, not pleasant, that;s for sure, but then again, I worked in a slaughter house for a month.
OI VEY !!!

hmm parallel lives? i too worked in an abattoir! But for a lot longer than a month. I worked on the killing floor in a time when nail guns (or what amounts to a nail gun) was the method.

But that was a small outfit and not one of the huge factory farms that fast food joints tend to buy from. The big 6 companies in the states have really frightening practices as far as factory farming goes. I'm pretty sure they would not like the general public to view their process it is that bad.

They (processed food corps) kill thousands every day in highly automated settings.
It's not even like a traditional abattoir at all. It is a completely robotic thing that would shake the sensibilities of anyone that had a heart.

If you took kids to a mcdonalds processing plant and connected the dots for them, I'm pretty sure you'd have a nation of fit, healthy and happy children in the short term.

Schools should educate kids more thoroughly about the capitalist framework and the food industry that effects and how it effects it. Might change a lot!

[Drake]

Drake, I just named several choices I have that do not sell processed food. And anti-freeze is a poison not meant for human consumption. The FDA inspected food McDonalds sells is food fit for human consumption. Let's not get ridiculous here.

If you trust the FDA, I have a bridge to sell you. I think I'll start with some contaminated lettuce first, though.

[sanjuro_ronin]

hmm parallel lives? i too worked in an abattoir! But for a lot longer than a month. I worked on the killing floor in a time when nail guns (or what amounts to a nail gun) was the method.

But that was a small outfit and not one of the huge factory farms that fast food joints tend to buy from. The big 6 companies in the states have really frightening practices as far as factory farming goes. I'm pretty sure they would not like the general public to view their process it is that bad.

They (processed food corps) kill thousands every day in highly automated settings.
It's not even like a traditional abattoir at all. It is a completely robotic thing that would shake the sensibilities of anyone that had a heart.

If you took kids to a mcdonalds processing plant and connected the dots for them, I'm pretty sure you'd have a nation of fit, healthy and happy children in the short term.

Schools should educate kids more thoroughly about the capitalist framework and the food industry that effects and how it effects it. Might change a lot!

My sister is a PETA girl, my kids know ALL about that, LOL !
Thing is, they like Mc'D's and sometimes it comes in handy.
Oh they may have it once or twice a month and that is more than enough.
But I won't begrudge them their McNuggets, at least not for now.
My wife likes them too, how can I say no to those faces?
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs571.snc3/31184_387511696315_523836315_4568004_3130408_n.jpg

[goju]

Lest be honest here, kids and people eat at Mc'd's because they like the food, it is quick and cheap.
It has zero to do with toys because you can just buy the toys and NOT buy any food.
If the USA has a problem with fat people they need to look a lot deeper then fast food as the cause.

not only that you know most of the kids eat the adult meals not the happy meals now a days

removing the toy will do little

[SanHeChuan]

If you took kids to a mcdonalds processing plant and connected the dots for them, I'm pretty sure you'd have a nation of fit, healthy and happy children in the short term.

Or PTSD



not only that you know most of the kids eat the adult meals not the happy meals now a days

removing the toy will do little

Yep, it's just a symbolic gesture as far as effectiveness.

We are debating the role of government. What should the government protect consumers against, and the divide between lawful and ethical responsibility.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We are debating the role of government. What should the government protect consumers against, and the divide between lawful and ethical responsibility.

Government governs, its not its place to decide what is best for the individual, that is what common sense and accountability are for.
Government has banned smoking and EVERYONE can still smoke if they want to and smoking is far more dangerous than fast food.
Everyone knows that smoking kills and is bad for everyone around you, has that stopped people from smoking?

[1bad65]

If you trust the FDA, I have a bridge to sell you. I think I'll start with some contaminated lettuce first, though.

And now Government is in on our health care too! Oh the joy. :rolleyes:

But my point remains, the food they sell is 100% legal, FDA inspected food fit for human consumption. It may not be healthy, but that's another story.

[Drake]

And now Government is in on our health care too! Oh the joy. :rolleyes:

But my point remains, the food they sell is 100% legal, FDA inspected food fit for human consumption. It may not be healthy, but that's another story.

So it's ok now if it's legal? You are flip-flopping like crazy.

And fyi...the FDA also thinks pizza is a great breakfast item for kids.

You are ignoring everything I'm saying, because it's true, and there's no refuting the evidence. So yeah...keep ignoring it. Everyone else sees this except you.

Again.... disgusted by how you'd endorse this. You want to talk about freedoms? How many freedoms have we lost from a 75% obesity rate? I can think of one, and that's your precious private health care. You said it yourself, or are you going to flip-flop on that too?

[David Jamieson]

And now Government is in on our health care too! Oh the joy. :rolleyes:

But my point remains, the food they sell is 100% legal, FDA inspected food fit for human consumption. It may not be healthy, but that's another story.

yes it is another story and it's directly related to the removal of advertising to tykes.
No it's not healthy and it's not a good food choice.

Are you an advocate of assisted suicide 1bad65? Do you think people should have the choice to end their own lives if they are suffering too much?

How about abortion? That's a choice as well, do you support that freedom of choice?

Just curious.

[1bad65]

So it's ok now if it's legal? You are flip-flopping like crazy.

How so?


And fyi...the FDA also thinks pizza is a great breakfast item for kids.

So, again we have the freedom to ignore them or to follow their advice. And I specifically said "FDA inspected", not "FDA recommended".


You are ignoring everything I'm saying, because it's true, and there's no refuting the evidence. So yeah...keep ignoring it. Everyone else sees this except you.

Not at all. We just disagree. I'm for personal freedom and choice in food, and you are not.


Again.... disgusted by how you'd endorse this. You want to talk about freedoms? How many freedoms have we lost from a 75% obesity rate? I can think of one, and that's your precious private health care. You said it yourself, or are you going to flip-flop on that too?

We have the right to be lard asses. And I'm not endorsing McDonalds, nor anyone else's food. I'm simply saying people should have the right to eat what they choose, feed their kids how they choose, and companies have the right to sell what they choose (assuming it's safe for consumption, FDA inspected, etc).

[David Jamieson]

come on 1bad, answer the question about abortion and assisted suicide. :p

[1bad65]

Are you an advocate of assisted suicide 1bad65? Do you think people should have the choice to end their own lives if they are suffering too much?

I'm against assisted suicide. However, I think if you choose to kill yourself, it's your right.


How about abortion? That's a choice as well, do you support that freedom of choice?

Just curious.

I'm obviously anti-abortion as it involves the murder of another person.

And yes, I'm sure i'll be called a hypocrite now. :rolleyes:

[Drake]

I think McDonalds should be available. I don't think they should be able to market unhealthy choices to kids with the toys. Sort of like candy cigarettes. Nobody was upset when those went away. Or Joe Camel.

McDonalds has a distinct advantage with their product, as they can pump out unhealthy food for a fraction of the cost it takes to give kids healthy choices. Through, like I said before, corporate socialism, they can lowball their prices and drive out competitors, especially those who play by ethical rules (note, ethical not legal). That's not how a free market is expected to work.

McDonalds, especially in urban areas, can beat out any healthy food place, because they cannot compete with the corporate socialism. You can't use healthy meats and vegetables, and use locally produced goods, and expect to be able to compete financially with McDonalds. Like I said....illusion of choice. When you make minimum wage, you can't afford Chipotles.

It is really bothering me that you expect me to listen to you when you don't do the same in kind. It's like when BD left, he merged into you or something, creating this strange creature that argues conservative values with a far left demeanor. Frickin' weird...

And for the rest of you... I just had to drive an hour to find a restaurant that actually served local beef.

[David Jamieson]

I'm against assisted suicide. However, I think if you choose to kill yourself, it's your right.



I'm obviously anti-abortion as it involves the murder of another person.

And yes, I'm sure i'll be called a hypocrite now. :rolleyes:

yup and doubly so because you're a man and your view is regarding something that is about a woman's body.

on the suicide question, what's the difference?

abortion is 100% legal and is a fundamental human right for women in the USA, Canada and several other countries.

so you either support freedom of choice or you don't.

what it comes down to is this.

Your argument about toys in happy meals is stupid when held against your views on these much more deep and personal question regarding liberties and freedoms.

so yeah, you're a hypocrite.

[1bad65]

Drake, I see your point. I do. Are they exploiting kids, I'd have to say yes. Are they looking like horrible, greedy guys who would ***** their own mom out for a buck, yes.

Now look at my point. Market to kids all you want. The kids still have to get their parents permission to buy the product. So the parents can stop McDonalds in their tracks. Just say "NO!".

In short, what they are doing is morally wrong. But legally, under the Constitution, they have the right to do this.

[1bad65]

yup and doubly so because you're a man and your view is regarding something that is about a woman's body.

Not that easy. You left out the child in your equation.

As for a woman's body, I believe she should have every right to sell/rent it out at her discretion.

[Drake]

Drake, I see your point. I do. Are they exploiting kids, I'd have to say yes. Are they looking like horrible, greedy guys who would ***** their own mom out for a buck, yes.

Now look at my point. Market to kids all you want. The kids still have to get their parents permission to buy the product. So the parents can stop McDonalds in their tracks. Just say "NO!".

In short, what they are doing is morally wrong. But legally, under the Constitution, they have the right to do this.

But the parents DON'T. And now we can't afford health care, our nation is morbidly obese, and it seems every other person now has diabetes. At what point do you take action? Are you ok with this?

[David Jamieson]

Not that easy. You left out the child in your equation.

As for a woman's body, I believe she should have every right to sell/rent it out at her discretion.

what child? a clump of cells isn't a child. It's a potential child. Just like you aren't a rocket scientist, but you potentially could be.

you have no rights whatsoever until you take a breath, that's pretty much the law.

If you are against abortion, you should also be against masturbation, because in your mind, you are killing millions of potential children when you do that. Or are you the one guy on earth who doesn't masturbate?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Since it came up, do we still "need" abortions in N.America?
I mean, there are many ways NOT to get pregnant an many ways to keep the pregnancy to even begin and even ways to NOT have an early term pregancy completed,
What is the point of abortions nowadays anyways?

[David Jamieson]

But the parents DON'T. And now we can't afford health care, our nation is morbidly obese, and it seems every other person now has diabetes. At what point do you take action? Are you ok with this?

the diabetes is likely to do with obesity compounded by having high fructose corn syrup as an ingredient in nearly every product out there.

walk into your local grab and go or whatever it's called.

take a look around that store.

see any fresh fruit for sale? how about fresh anything?

It's not only that people make bad choices, it's that of all the possible choices they could make, a huge percentage of it is bad from the get go!

It is becoming more and more difficult to eat healthy.
yes, your medical system and mine are going to go bankrupt, but not before the big 6 food processing outfits and their executives have profited from all the sweet ad tasty shortened lifespans they are selling.


READ LABELS.

[1bad65]

But the parents DON'T. And now we can't afford health care, our nation is morbidly obese, and it seems every other person now has diabetes. At what point do you take action? Are you ok with this?

Ok, now it gets interesting. ;)

If we did what Constitutionalists say is right, the problem would solve itself. If you can't afford healthcare, and you eat like crap, you will die young and not be society's problem. You will just be a fat slob who died young. Big deal, not my problem. But when you force others who are making good decisions to pay for those making bad decisions to fix the problems they created for themselves, it creates a serious mess. And it actually promotes bad behavior. When you take away the consequences of bad behavior, you naturally will have more of it. Does this make sense?

[Reality_Check]

Since it came up, do we still "need" abortions in N.America?
I mean, there are many ways NOT to get pregnant an many ways to keep the pregnancy to even begin and even ways to NOT have an early term pregancy completed,
What is the point of abortions nowadays anyways?

Because there are still cases of rape and incest. There are still people who are against the use of contraception and education about said contraception.

[Drake]

Ok, now it gets interesting. ;)

If we did what Constitutionalists say is right, the problem would solve itself. If you can't afford healthcare, and you eat like crap, you will die young and not be society's problem. You will just be a fat slob who died young. Big deal, not my problem. But when you force others who are making good decisions to pay for those making bad decisions to fix the problems they created for themselves, it creates a serious mess. And it actually promotes bad behavior. When you take away the consequences of bad behavior, you naturally will have more of it. Does this make sense?

No, because you'd kill virtually the entire state of Mississippi, West Virginia, and a good chunk of Texas. Something that would run completely contrary to our values. You know you are talking about allowing three quarters of America to die, right?

And of course...all the rich fat people would survive, adding to the moral outlandishness of that simplistically imaginative theory.

[1bad65]

what child? a clump of cells isn't a child. It's a potential child. Just like you aren't a rocket scientist, but you potentially could be.

you have no rights whatsoever until you take a breath, that's pretty much the law.

We disagree here on a fundamental level. You will not change my views, and I doubt I'll change yours. But I will never vote for those who allow the murder of unborn children.


If you are against abortion, you should also be against masturbation, because in your mind, you are killing millions of potential children when you do that. Or are you the one guy on earth who doesn't masturbate?

Nope, I'm married. So you know where I fit in there. ;) IMO, life starts with a fertilized egg. So I'm not against having a little fun with yourself. ;)

[Drake]

We disagree here on a fundamental level. You will not change my views, and I doubt I'll change yours. But I will never vote for those who allow the murder of unborn children.



Nope, I'm married. So you know where I fit in there. ;) IMO, life starts with a fertilized egg. So I'm not against having a little fun with yourself. ;)

You won't murder unborn children, but you'll let born ones die because their parents won't feed them properly, and because they can't afford health care, they deserve to die? W-T-F?

[kfson]

come on 1bad, answer the question about abortion and assisted suicide. :p

Spirit will tell you.

[1bad65]

No, because you'd kill virtually the entire state of Mississippi, West Virginia, and a good chunk of Texas. Something that would run completely contrary to our values. You know you are talking about allowing three quarters of America to die, right?

And of course...all the rich fat people would survive, adding to the moral outlandishness of that simplistically imaginative theory.

Well, even put that way, I still take the same stance.

Our values? Where in the Constitution does it say the smart and healthy have to take care of the stupid and fat?

[David Jamieson]

You won't murder unborn children, but you'll let born ones die because their parents won't feed them properly, and because they can't afford health care, they deserve to die? W-T-F?

The cherry pickers view is never clear.
They state belief, but are willing to cancel that should some other desire be fulfilled elsewhere.

just pointing it out.

[1bad65]

You won't murder unborn children, but you'll let born ones die because their parents won't feed them properly, and because they can't afford health care, they deserve to die? W-T-F?

Can't feed em, don't breed em.

It all goes back to personal responsibility. My message stays the same.

[Drake]

Can't feed em, don't breed em.

It all goes back to personal responsibility. My message stays the same.

Wow... just...wow...

[1bad65]

The cherry pickers view is never clear.
They state belief, but are willing to cancel that should some other desire be fulfilled elsewhere.

just pointing it out.

It's not cherry picking at all. I'm all for personal freedom, but that doesn't mean we are free to murder others. And I consider abortion murder. I'm constant here. FYI, I'm also anti-death penalty as well.

[MasterKiller]

Nope, I'm married. So you know where I fit in there. ;) Sh1t, I got laid more when I was single....

[David Jamieson]

Can't feed em, don't breed em.

It all goes back to personal responsibility. My message stays the same.

What has personal responsibility got to do with a rape victim who becomes pregnant and wants an abortion?

Your message is wrong from my point of view.
Probably why I contest it so often. lol

[1bad65]

Wow... just...wow...

And I'll go to my grave believing the Founders felt the exact same way.

[David Jamieson]

Sh1t, I got laid more when I was single....

You and every single other married guy in the world.

We don't get married to have more sex. We get married so we don't have to be in the dang dating cycle crap anymore. :p

oh yeah, and because we love the other person... :D

[1bad65]

Also Drake, you seem to have forgotten adoption. If you get pregnant, and can't afford the child, your choices are not just abortion or poverty. Adoption is an alternative. And the Government even makes sure adoptive parents are suitable to take care of any children they adopt.

[1bad65]

You and every single other married guy in the world.

A buddy told me something about that once.

He said when you first start dating a girl, get a change jar and some nickels. Put a nickel in it every time you get laid. Now after you get married, take out a nickel every time you get laid. He said you will never empty the jar. ;)

[Reality_Check]

Can't feed em, don't breed em.

It all goes back to personal responsibility. My message stays the same.

And yet you're against contraception. Which is an example of taking personal responsibility.

[MasterKiller]

Also Drake, you seem to have forgotten adoption. If you get pregnant, and can't afford the child, your choices are not just abortion or poverty. Adoption is an alternative. And the Government even makes sure adoptive parents are suitable to take care of any children they adopt.

LOL! You are the one who said adoption is too cost-prohibitive for most Americans to help prevent abortions!

[Drake]

Also Drake, you seem to have forgotten adoption. If you get pregnant, and can't afford the child, your choices are not just abortion or poverty. Adoption is an alternative. And the Government even makes sure adoptive parents are suitable to take care of any children they adopt.

I don't give a crap about your views on abortion. I am in awe that you'd allow kids to die because their parents made poor choices. "Can't feed em don't breed em?"??? And that somehow justifies passive murder? WTF-ever.

[1bad65]

Sh1t, I got laid more when I was single....

As did I, and I'm ugly. You misunderstood my post. Sorry it wasn't more clear, you might have laughed. ;)

[1bad65]

And yet you're against contraception. Which is an example of taking personal responsibility.

Not at all. Where did I say that?

[1bad65]

LOL! You are the one who said adoption is too cost-prohibitive for most Americans to help prevent abortions!

I did? :confused:

I likely said it costs alot to adopt a child. But I don't think it costs a dime to give a child up for adoption. There are plenty of orgs out there to help women who want to give the child up for adoption. In some cases, the parents getting the child will even pay for the prenatal care, hospital costs, etc.

[1bad65]

I don't give a crap about your views on abortion. I am in awe that you'd allow kids to die because their parents made poor choices. "Can't feed em don't breed em?"??? And that somehow justifies passive murder? WTF-ever.

"Passive murder" is something I'd expect Karl Marx to utter, Not you.

There are many things I want but do not have because of money. Why should kids be exempt from this type of responsible thinking?

So "passive murder" is bad, but sucking a child out of a womb is ok? Is that what you are saying?

[Drake]

I'm sure a poor minority living in poverty in the city has people lining up to take her child.

Oh, and fyi... apparently adoption is difficult and expensive. Have a coworker trying to do it. And he has the highest security clearance you can get.

[SnowDog]

It's almost unreal how hard it is becoming to eat healthy in today's society.

A few years back when my wife went back to school we did an experiment for her sociology class. We went to the grocery store and got one weeks worth of good healthy food, and then went back and got another week of crap (chips, soda, processed meals) and guess what? It was almost 4x more expensive to eat healthly than eat like crap. We then did it at restaraunts, came up the same 4x more to eat at a nice healthier restaunt than at fast food.

We then went from an upper-middle class neighborhood to see how far it was to drive to a healhty food store, and a healthier restaraunt. And then did the same in a poor area. Once again it was over double the drive time from a poor area to get to a decent place to shop or eat.

So if you're on a budget, and don't have a good income, trying to feed a family you really no longer have a choice, because all you can afford is crappy fattening food.

[Reality_Check]

Not at all. Where did I say that?

I concluded that based on your stance on sex education.

[1bad65]

I'm sure a poor minority living in poverty in the city has people lining up to take her child.

Oh, and fyi... apparently adoption is difficult and expensive. Have a coworker trying to do it. And he has the highest security clearance you can get.

There are more parents wanting to adopt than there are kids to be adopted. Why do you think some people are going to other countries to adopt kids?

Beaurocracy moves slow. It sucks. And soon we will get to wait for healthcare too! :eek:

[1bad65]

I concluded that based on your stance on sex education.

You were wrong, but I can see how you drew that conclusion. I'm all for sex ed, I just think it's the parents job, not the Government's job.

[Reality_Check]

You were wrong, but I can see how you drew that conclusion. I'm all for sex ed, I just think it's the parents job, not the Government's job.

Fair enough.

[dimethylsea]

Maybe if most of us weren't fat and sick from being processed food companies (ie McDonalds) driving out all of the natural food markets, this wouldn't be an issue.

You give a family a choice of a 99 cent cheeseburger that will kill them later, or raw foods they can't afford due to the market being controlled by processed food manufacturers, and the endstate is obvious.

This is why they need to be taking poor kids on field trips to the farms and orchards, greening the inner city, and showing the parents how to hunt.


Venison and grits is good eatin' !

This is an Obama-type policy... it's something both conservatives and liberals technically agree with, but will hate cause the other side likes the idea too!