How do you hold your fist

[SPJ]

http://www.journalofasianmartialarts.com/dev15/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=100007&func=view&catid=8&id=15#15

eagle beak, crane beak, phoenix eye etc

pros and cons.

:)

[SPJ]

how do you open your palm?

willow leaf, tiger claws, dragon claws, eagle talon etc

pros and cons.

:)

[Drake]

It took me a long time to get used to CLF's fists. It just felt so different from the way I've always been taught. Now it's like second nature.

[SPJ]

in tong bei fist, I prefer the middle finger protruding fist, it is used to hit pressure point along the midline of the body.

in ba gua, I like dragon claws, it is used to grab and hold.

in shaolin fist, I like the leopard fist---

---

[Golden Arms]

http://www.journalofasianmartialarts.com/dev15/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=100007&func=view&catid=8&id=15#15

eagle beak, crane beak, phoenix eye etc

pros and cons.

:)

The fist with the thumb held like this allows one to use the palm side of the fist as well as the finger "shins" to strike with as well. Phoenix eye fist, the advantage is that if it is trained well, it is not a lot of fun to deal with, and can be used to hammer, backfist, strike with the protruding knuckle, etc.

[David Jamieson]

I hold my fist closed, but relaxed until contact.

[Lucas]

just like i hold my women! ;)

[Shaolindynasty]

just like i hold my women!

With your thumb inside?

[SPJ]

I hold my fist closed, but relaxed until contact.

yes. in tong bei.

there is a practice of drilling/middle fist or zuan quan/zhong quan.

you actually move forward your open palm and right before contact, you clench/close your fist to hit.

of course, you move your whole body forward, too, I mean you move your lead foot forward and your rear foot follows. when you land your feet, you also land your fist.

it took me a long while to learn.

----

[Lee Chiang Po]

I strike with the lower 3 large knuckles of the fist, and I hold the forearm, wrist, and hand rigid on impact, but even with the fist at striking form you can easily slide a finger into the fist, and I can wiggle the fingers easily. I hold the thumb tight down against the top of the fist so that it does not get shoved back though.
Not real tight, just enough to prevent it from injury. The only thing tight or rigid is the forearm to the large knuckles of the fist. The rest is fairly loose. It is amazing how hard you can hit like that.

[uki]

i train so that the whole arm and fist of any postion/positioning, can be the striking surface - everything and anything is appropriate for striking an opponent. whatever shape and alignment my fist and body may be in or at, it is an acceptable mode of issuing forth a strike, wether in blocking or attacking - this ensures that nothing is left out of ones practice... of course. :)

[David Jamieson]

correct structure helps you to project optimal force.

there are many structural positions of the body and a huge amount are inappropriate for force generation that is optimal.

Better to find the structures that support good attack projection and lose those structures that don't within the training.

Ultimately, you can do what you like. Doesn't mean what you like is what works well.

[Lucas]

Ultimately, you can do what you like. Doesn't mean what you like is what works well.

Thats what she said....


couldnt resist

[uki]

correct structure helps you to project optimal force.what is "correct" is highly subjective. :p


there are many structural positions of the body and a huge amount are inappropriate for force generation that is optimal.

Better to find the structures that support good attack projection and lose those structures that don't within the training.

Ultimately, you can do what you like. Doesn't mean what you like is what works well.this is why it's best to NOT conform yourself to a set of pre-concieved notions of what is or isn't correct in body structure... be like water. :D

[David Jamieson]

what is "correct" is highly subjective. :p
this is why it's best to NOT conform yourself to a set of pre-concieved notions of what is or isn't correct in body structure... be like water. :D

dude, you got some studying to do.

This commentary is what is referred to as "omniwrong" :p

the "notion" of correct structure is not preconceived. It is known what is correct and what is incorrect as far as skeletal structure, kinesthetics and muscular strength in context to martial activity.

did you not use a wooden template to create an arch?

Think man. Think!

[Drake]

I don't think any part of your arm can be used as a weapon. There are several places where, regardless of conditioning, you could do some severe damage to yourself trying to use it as a striking surface.

Unless Uki's point was inductive in nature, and he was simply saying that we don't use enough of the surfaces that ARE appropriate for striking, relying too heavily on the fist instead of other appropriate areas.

[sanjuro_ronin]

just like i hold my women! ;)

Perfect, well said and explained.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Since I use the "thumb on top" fist, my PE fist is done accordingly.

[uki]

I don't think any part of your arm can be used as a weapon. There are several places where, regardless of conditioning, you could do some severe damage to yourself trying to use it as a striking surface.

Unless Uki's point was inductive in nature, and he was simply saying that we don't use enough of the surfaces that ARE appropriate for striking, relying too heavily on the fist instead of other appropriate areas.omg... we have a winner here. vey well done there drake - no one in their right mind is gonna attack you with their funny bone. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

I once tried to crush my opponents shin with my groin.
It didn't work.

[Drake]

omg... we have a winner here. vey well done there drake - no one in their right mind is gonna attack you with their funny bone. :p

Unless you have a highly conditioned funny bone!!!! :p

[David Jamieson]

striking surfaces are dependent on supporting structures.

You could hit with your perfectly formed fist and screw up your wrist because you were not structurally sound.

just pointing it out...

[KC Elbows]

I once tried to crush my opponents shin with my groin.
It didn't work.

Read this carefully, kids. This is a cautionary tale about Brazilian women and wasteful jing practices.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Read this carefully, kids. This is a cautionary tale about Brazilian women and wasteful jing practices.

At least you were kind enough to call it a woman, that was real nice of you.

[KC Elbows]

At least you were kind enough to call it a woman, that was real nice of you.

I believe that it's an adult's business who one invites over for poppers and Carradines.

[uki]

striking surfaces are dependent on supporting structures.

You could hit with your perfectly formed fist and screw up your wrist because you were not structurally sound.true, but tweeking trajectories and angles tends to help abit. :p


just pointing it out...aren't we all? :D

[David Jamieson]

true, but tweeking trajectories and angles tends to help abit. :p


so tweak the structure to be correct and it will launch more effectively then? :p lol

[uki]

so tweak the structure to be correct and it will launch more effectively then?improvision is sometimes just the way it happens, so it's better to train all possibilities in order to be efficiently tenacious in the abilty to strike and opponent. :)

[David Jamieson]

improvision is sometimes just the way it happens, so it's better to train all possibilities in order to be efficiently tenacious in the abilty to strike and opponent. :)

*facepalm*

[Drake]

*facepalm*

I have to side with Uki on this. Why would you limit your options, and why wouldn't you at least TRY to see what else works? Just because your style doesn't teach to use appendage x, doesn't mean you shouldn't see if it has some used. You are training to become a better fighter, not be a drone bee.

[David Jamieson]

I have to side with Uki on this. Why would you limit your options, and why wouldn't you at least TRY to see what else works? Just because your style doesn't teach to use appendage x, doesn't mean you shouldn't see if it has some used. You are training to become a better fighter, not be a drone bee.

You agree with Uki about what? Launching strike from any position? Do you think that's effective or do you think there is enough time and knowledge acummulated that tells us that "x" is the optimal structure for "y" and striking surface "z" is most optimally used from "b" - "c" and "d" structural platforms?

Because what uki is advocating if you read what he's said is to self learn what are good ways of striking vs what is not working for you.

I'm not speaking from a point of ignorance here and i do not prescribe to the tenets of one style or even 2 or 3 or whatever.

There are simple rules and kinesiological principles that apply to us each and every one and yes, we vary from type to type, but nevertheless there is universality to what structure supports what.

What I am thinking is that maybe some folks don't yet understand how to access that in their own practice and if they want to make the mistakes they don't need to then they are certainly entitled to do so.

Good structure supports solid strikes, locks, throws and kicks. Poor structure makes all these things poor in return. I don't really care what anybody trains in, but structural correctness is paramount to striking power no matter how much one wants to ruminate on possibilities of this or that.

It can be demonstrated readily that there are effective ways of training and then there are fishing expeditions.

[Drake]

Just because a strike isn't maximized based on perfect body position and the perfect form doesn't mean it's not inappropriate. You think you'll always be able to throw the perfect punch in every conflict? I wouldn't recommend being that idealistic.

[TenTigers]

launching a strike from any position does not mean random.
There are several methods;
It means positioning yourself to strike and be in position on yor recovery. If you strike with yuor right, then your left is "loaded" to launch another strike, which loads your right.
It also means that when the strike is thrown, it does not return completly but is poised to strike again.
It also means that onne strike sets itself up to flow into another. An upward elbow, becomes a downward palm heel, which becomes a rake, which becomes a hammerfist.
It also means that the body needs to develop different methods of issuing power, such as whipping, snapping, short power, etc.
Are all strikes expected to have the same knockdown power as a full body strike, no. Of course not. But the correct area hit with the appropriate weapon with a good delivery system becomes very debilitating.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The right tool for the right job.
:p

[Lucas]

the right tool for the right job.
:p

duct tape!

[Drake]

I don't know what actual fights you've been in, but you rarely get much wiggle room for using the best strikes. If Uki rips your eye out, you won't be very focused on technique

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't know what actual fights you've been in, but you rarely get much wiggle room for using the best strikes. If Uki rips your eye out, you won't be very focused on technique

Bah, I gotta a spare !!
:p

[Lucas]

Bah, I gotta a spare !!
:p

HEY ME TOO!!

i also have an extra lung, leg, arm, testicle, kidney, some teeth, an ear...

i wonder how much i can get on the market for all my extras....

[David Jamieson]

HEY ME TOO!!

i also have an extra lung, leg, arm, testicle, kidney, some teeth, an ear...

i wonder how much i can get on the market for all my extras....

what are you? the green knight or something? :p

[Lucas]

You can call me Sir Gawain!

[iron_leg_dave]

At this point in my life, it is pretty much a "sun" fist and a white crane wing. In forms, however the hand shape is supposed to be.

[SPJ]

yes. sun character fist or r zi quan 日字拳

it is a vertical fist. it is easier to align your arm and body parts.

the other version would be a horizontal fist or ping quan 平拳.

we may add an extra twist or turning to hit.

:)

[uki]

what are you? the green knight or something?maybe he's jewish...

[SPJ]

in general, we may use any surface of our body to strike.

1. the pointed one, such as fist, elbow, knee and foot etc

it may be called push (ding) depending on the styles.

2. wide surface one, such as forearm, shoulder, chest/ back, butt etc

it may be called body push (kao)--

we may go forward, upward, downward, (zhi) and laterally (heng)

we may also rotate or circle to strike (chan or quan)

in general, we may use body structure/frame to generate the force/power/energy/jin to strike or push.

1. straight (zhi) 2. laterally (heng) 3. cross (mixed of 1 and 2) 4. circle (quan or chan)---

on and on.

in short, what is the correct or proper body structure/frame, depending on what you want to do.

[uki]

the beauty of the fist is that it is ever changing to fit the needs of any situation... there are so many fists to choose from, so many angles of attack, orbits, ranges, and combinations - to be conformed to just one type is abit absurd in my eyes.

[SoCo KungFu]

HEY ME TOO!!

i also have an extra lung, leg, arm, testicle, kidney, some teeth, an ear...

i wonder how much i can get on the market for all my extras....

How much for an ear, or partial ear. Upper lobe to be precise. Not cauliflowered please.

[taai gihk yahn]

duct tape!

solving most, if not all of the world's problems...

(and I work in pediatric rehab...;))