MMA "defeats" MMA (For the Enjoyment of my Wing Chun friends)

[Hardwork108]

This just proves that MMA is just too deadly even for the ring!:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm9APLkGy7M

HW108

[Dragonzbane76]

old stuff, seen this awhile ago.

But I can honestly say that they probably know how to stop a takedown at least. ;)

[Hardwork108]

old stuff, seen this awhile ago.

But I can honestly say that they probably know how to stop a takedown at least. ;)

If I were them, I would start by learning how to avoid a KNOCK DOWN, first.:D

[SoCo KungFu]

I'm not sure where you're trying to go here, I guess in retaliation to the MMA beating up WC guy in the other thread. Either way, its kinda a lame attempt at trolling. As a MMA guy, I think this is f'n hilarious.

0/10

[Hardwork108]

I'm not sure where you're trying to go here, I guess in retaliation to the MMA beating up WC guy in the other thread. Either way, its kinda a lame attempt at trolling.
And of course, you did not notice Terrence's clueless trolling (almost with every post that he makes)?

Or is it always OK for guys who have never really practiced TCMAs for real, to constantly come in and put down various kung fu styles and methodologies in a KUNG FU FORUM, of all places?



As a MMA guy, I think this is f'n hilarious.

As a Wing Chun and a kung fu guy, I find this f'n hilarious as well....

10/10

HW108

PS. Shouldn't an MMA guy limit his posts to the MMA forum where he will be better able to discuss that given approach to fighting, rather than coming into kung fu threads and turning every one of them into MMA ("is best") discussions (I am not just speaking about you)?

[Frost]

I'm not sure where you're trying to go here, I guess in retaliation to the MMA beating up WC guy in the other thread. Either way, its kinda a lame attempt at trolling. As a MMA guy, I think this is f'n hilarious.

0/10

Hi meet HW108 the trolls troll, actually thinking about it trolling would be posting a clip of a traditional guy owning an MMA guy in some funny way....but he couldn;t find one of those so he had to settle for this....i wonder why:)

[Hardwork108]

Hi meet HW108 the trolls troll, actually thinking about it trolling would be posting a clip of a traditional guy owning an MMA guy in some funny way....but he couldn;t find one of those so he had to settle for this....i wonder why:)

Why?,

Because there is nothing funnier on the internet than two MMA knuckleheads knocking each other out cold, the way they did in that video clip...LOL, LOL, LOL....

[anerlich]

For the Enjoyment of my Wing Chun friends

The only Wing Chun friends you have are imaginary.

[Hardwork108]

The only Wing Chun friends you have are imaginary.

That would be because most of the people who claim Wing Chun expertise and/or knowledge in this forum are imaginary too, as they are nothing but MMA-ists in disguise or Glorified Kickboxers such as yourself, with no profound knowledge of TCMA techniques, nor of Internal training.

Now go back and play with your Bong Sao and telling everyone about your "decades" of mediocre wing chun "experience".

Oh, don't forget to flaunt your BJJ purple belt, as well, emphasizing the mediocracy of your Kung Fu training and Knowledge.

[Dragonzbane76]

Or is it always OK for guys who have never really practiced TCMAs for real,

haha you really need to look in the mirror on that one. ;)


PS. Shouldn't an MMA guy limit his posts to the MMA forum where he will be better able to discuss that given approach to fighting, rather than coming into kung fu threads and turning every one of them into MMA ("is best") discussions (I am not just speaking about you)?

Funny thing about that comment is, it's usually you whom turn it into a "who is the best" discussion, just like this thread you stared. But we all know you have a chip on your shoulder for anyone whom does anything else besides TCMA.

[SoCo KungFu]

Hi meet HW108 the trolls troll, actually thinking about it trolling would be posting a clip of a traditional guy owning an MMA guy in some funny way....but he couldn;t find one of those so he had to settle for this....i wonder why:)

Its just funny, considering I have about 3 times the experience in TCMA that he does. And others have considerably more than that.

[goju]

facepalm

this forum is becomimg a mini bullshido

[Hardwork108]

Its just funny, considering I have about 3 times the experience in TCMA that he does. And others have considerably more than that.

The world is full of people who claim "TCMA experience"......and it seems that all they have learned from TCMA "experience" is to come and post in forums such as this one and criticize arts that do not really understand......

So, it is "acceptable" for them to flaunt the "greatness" of MMA (within KUNG FU discussions) and constantly ridicule the TCMAs and their perceived lack of functionality, but when someone posts a light hearted "poke" at their beloved MMA - like I did in this thread - they get their corsets in a twist and show their real (none-kung fu) faces........

Interesting times we live in..................

[Hardwork108]

haha you really need to look in the mirror on that one. ;)
I see you are still living in denial of the fact that you are totally clueless about the true scope of the TCMAs. However, don't worry as you are in good company here, including, T-Niehoff, Knifefighter, Anerlich, Frost and a few other Mcdojo fodders who post here (together with their "decades of experience").



Funny thing about that comment is, it's usually you whom turn it into a "who is the best" discussion,

Oh really?

Then please show me where. You can't do that because you are LYING, and that is what all of you kung fu-clueless MMA-ists do when your back is against the wall!


just like this thread you stared.
This thread that I started is about "who is the best"?????? LOL

Actually, looking at the video, and I am no MMA referee or judge, but it really looked like a draw.:D


But we all know you have a chip on your shoulder for anyone whom does anything else besides TCMA.

I am one of the few people that I know who hasn't got any chip on my shoulder, however I really and truly detest UNQUALIFIED comments, not just about kung fu, but also about other subject matters, by people who possess at best a superficial knowledge regarding the subject matters they discuss and methodologies they are so ready to criticize.

I believe that people doing that are silly and even IRRESPONSIBLE and as far as the TCMAs are concerned, send the wrong messages to any kung fu newbie who ventures here to this forum for some TCMA advice and knowledge enhancement, and gets a lecture on the benefits of BJJ, Muay Thai and MMA, not forgetting Tae Kwon Do!

So in short I don't care what none TCMA arts you practice, just take your "crap" to the relevant forums!!!

I hope that my position is clearer for you now.:)

[Frost]

Its just funny, considering I have about 3 times the experience in TCMA that he does. And others have considerably more than that.

lol don;t go there he will say you don't have the real TCMA and thus your years don't could...we have all been there:cool:

[Hardwork108]

lol don;t go there he will say you don't have the real TCMA and thus your years don't could...we have all been there:cool:
True, as the same holds true for all the rest of you Mcdojo fodder....

[Frost]

True, as the same holds true for all the rest of you Mcdojo fodder....

yep not all of us can learn from authentic spartans :eek:

[Dragonzbane76]

I see you are still living in denial of the fact that you are totally clueless about the true scope of the TCMAs. However, don't worry as you are in good company here, including, T-Niehoff, Knifefighter, Anerlich, Frost and a few other Mcdojo fodders who post here (together with their "decades of experience").
haha think what you will haha i care not.


Oh really?

Then please show me where. You can't do that because you are LYING, and that is what all of you kung fu-clueless MMA-ists do when your back is against the wall!
Lying?? lol.... lets take a poll shall we?? I wish they would ban you from here honestly you are a worthless waste of space.

am one of the few people that I know who hasn't got any chip on my shoulder, however I really and truly detest UNQUALIFIED comments, not just about kung fu, but also about other subject matters, by people who possess at best a superficial knowledge regarding the subject matters they discuss and methodologies they are so ready to criticize.

I believe that people doing that are silly and even IRRESPONSIBLE and as far as the TCMAs are concerned, send the wrong messages to any kung fu newbie who ventures here to this forum for some TCMA advice and knowledge enhancement, and gets a lecture on the benefits of BJJ, Muay Thai and MMA, not forgetting Tae Kwon Do!

So in short I don't care what none TCMA arts you practice, just take your "crap" to the relevant forums!!!

I hope that my position is clearer for you now.

grow up. You live in fantasy TCMA land I gave up a long time ago trying to argue that piece with you because it's a hopeless cause, like you yourself. I've never lectured you on the practices of those other arts because in all reality your so entrenched with your dogma that it's pointless.

so in short I don't care what you do, and this is a free forum and I'll do what the he11 I want.

I hope my position is clearer to you now as well.

[Hardwork108]

haha think what you will haha i care not.
You are one of those "care free" type of knuckleheads, I see. Well I for one respect that.:rolleyes:



Lying?? lol.... lets take a poll shall we??

Let's not take a poll as most "kung fu" ("I have trained it along with BJJ, TKD, MT, Greco Roman, boxing, Judo and karate) people here are as clueless as you.

Let's have you show us where I said that "Who is the best" or justify you saying that I started this thread to make a "who is the best" point!

You can't do that because you were LYING, and that is what knuckleheads with no kung fu substance have been doing here for a long time and at the expense of traditionalists like myself!



I wish they would ban you from here honestly you are a worthless waste of space.

Yes, lets ban all the kung fu people who react to the constant barrage of negativity thrown onto TCMA practices. That way all the knuckleheads will be free to have "intellectual" discussions on the benefits of big muscles and sleeping with their punch bags.....:rolleyes:



grow up. You live in fantasy TCMA land
So, one lives in "fantasy TCMA land" if one does not want every TCMA discussion in a KUNG FU forum turning into a "benefits of MMA/BJJ" discussion?

Very interesting.......


I gave up a long time ago trying to argue that piece with you
And you did right. I mean what TCMA methodologies can you possibly discuss with someone like me? The benefits of weight lifting, perhaps? Or, the benefits of BJJ for my kung fu? LOL


because it's a hopeless cause,
Of course it is!

How can you discuss kung fu when you don't even comprehend the scope of the Internals? How can you make an intelligent point when you really don't understand the finer points of a subject matter?

So, yes it is hopeless for you to try and discuss kung fu with someone who actually trained it!


I've never lectured you on the practices of those other arts because in all reality your so entrenched with your dogma that it's pointless.

Yes, what our planet needs now, is the likes you "lecturing" us on TCMA practices...LOL.

Don't you see, you have no point of reference. You identify more with the likes of Terrence Niehoff, Knifefighter and Frost, then anyone else because you are a cross trainng MMA-ist. So, go ahead and lecture us about the benefits of MMA and cross training (as if we don't get enough of that already from our other "kung fu experts" here), but please do so in the MMA THREADS!


so in short I don't care what you do, and this is a free forum and I'll do what the he11 I want.
It seems that "what the hell you want" includes 'chasing' me across the threads with your idiotic posts?

Even in this thread, your "contributions" have been irrelevant, as I was just being light-hearted with the video clip. However, your heart being more in the MMA methodologies than kung fu, you took it as an offence came in here for a "fight", or in your case, a "beating"...LOL


I hope my position is clearer to you now as well.

Your CLUELESS (TCMA) position has always been clear to me........

[Hardwork108]

yep not all of us can learn from authentic spartans :eek:

The authentic "spartans" in question can beat you into a sorry pulp, before you can even say "BJJ"...;)

[Dragonzbane76]

And you did right. I mean what TCMA methodologies can you possibly discuss with someone like me? The benefits of weight lifting, perhaps? Or, the benefits of BJJ for my kung fu? LOL

weight lifting?? when have i ever stated anything about weight lifting? Why would I mention any of the above to you when you are just as clueless to anything else as you "say" i am to yours. and as for TCMA methods I guess you burned your bridge along time ago in concerns to what i know. :rolleyes:


Let's not take a poll as most "kung fu" ("I have trained it along with BJJ, TKD, MT, Greco Roman, boxing, Judo and karate) people here are as clueless as you.
this is a martial arts forum last time I noticed. Oh I forgot you have to have your iron ruling fist on what is discussed. Next you'll have us Goose-stepping in time and burning books. Not far off the mark for your personality imo.


Yes, lets ban all the kung fu people who react to the constant barrage of negativity thrown onto TCMA practices. That way all the knuckleheads will be free to have "intellectual" discussions on the benefits of big muscles and sleeping with their punch bags..... Nope just you. :)



Of course it is!

How can you discuss kung fu when you don't even comprehend the scope of the Internals? How can you make an intelligent point when you really don't understand the finer points of a subject matter?

So, yes it is hopeless for you to try and discuss kung fu with someone who actually trained it!

It's not the subject matter my dear watson; it's the person i'm discussing them with.

Yes, what our planet needs now for the likes of people like you "lecturing" us on TCMA practices...LOL.
think you missed the mark by a mile on comprehention but it's ok i've come to an understanding that you are short on that.

It seems that "what the hell you want" includes 'chasing' me across the threads with your idiotic posts?
nope just my civic duty to inform those not knowing of you the cliff they are facing.

However, your heart being more in the MMA methodologies than kung fu, you took it as an offence came in here for a "fight", or in your case, a "beating"...LOL offence?? have no idea where you took it as offence? I had no ill thoughts, watched the vid and commented that they probably had more take down defence than 'most' wc or TCMAs.

Your CLUELESS (TCMA) position has always been clear to me........ And yours of IDIOT (overall) postion has always been clear to me.......

[Hardwork108]

weight lifting?? when have i ever stated anything about weight lifting? Why would I mention any of the above to you when you are just as clueless to anything else as you "say" i am to yours.
I know "who" you are from your attitude!;)


and as for TCMA methods I guess you burned your bridge along time ago in concerns to what i know. :rolleyes:

And I wiil forever be thankful to the good lord for inspiring me to burn that bridge...LOL


this is a martial arts forum last time I noticed.
The martial arts are a big subject area, my boy, just like food, for example. [You don't think before you type, do you?]

The parallel here would be some hamburger/hot dog cooks going into a Chinese gourmet food forum and telling everyone that Chinese food is out of date and bad, and that everyone should include burgers and hot dogs into their diets because they are faster and more practical to cook and eat....LOL

So the best would be for the burger cooks to limit their repetitive advice to themselves or to Hamburger forums, so to speak.


Oh I forgot you have to have your iron ruling fist on what is discussed.
NO, it is just a case of plain logic and common sense, not to mention courtesy and respectfulness!


Next you'll have us Goose-stepping in time and burning books. Not far off the mark for your personality imo.

For possible future book burnings, please pay attention to your own country's oncoming dictatorship, towards which you are tip toeing as we speak.....


Nope just you.
"just you", because I make you look like an idiot whenever you approach me with your unprovoked personal "attacks"?



It's not the subject matter my dear watson; it's the person i'm discussing them with.

Of course it is the person you are discussing with and not the subject matter. I mean you couldn't discuss genuine TCMA methodologies with me even if your life depended on it..LOL


think you missed the mark by a mile on comprehention but it's ok i've come to an understanding that you are short on that.
My comprehension is fine but your sense of irony needs some work......


nope just my civic duty to inform those not knowing of you the cliff they are facing.
Let me get this right, your country is involved in two illegal wars where thousands of innocent people are dying on BOTH sides, on daily basis. Your Constitution is being torn to shreds as the days go by, by corrupt politician/leaders, the same ones who are taking away your god given rights as a human being, as we speak, and have sold your country, lock, stock and barrel, to the banking cartels, and you see it as your "civic duty" to warn your knucklehead MMA buddies here in the forums, against me, just because I showed you to be clueless about authentic TCMA practices????? LOL

I must say, for an intelletually challenged person, you are a pretty interesting character...:)



offence?? have no idea where you took it as offence? I had no ill thoughts,

And yet we are still here in a "discussion" provoked by your "good" self, where I am having a good laugh, while you babble incoherently as you always do....


...watched the vid and commented that they probably had more take down defence than 'most' wc or TCMAs.

You perceived your MMAs being mocked and your participation in this thread and subsequent comment was a retaliation in "defense" of your beloved MMA.

You and your lot are MMA-ists at the core, no matter how you disguise yourselves!!!

And for the clip, I still maitain that you need to worry more about their KNOCK OUT DEFENSES than their take down ones...LOL, LOL, LOL..



And yours of IDIOT (overall) postion has always been clear to me.......

At this point in time I doubt that anything is clear in that hazy and confused mind of yours, but I am not god and I did not create you, so it is a case of live and let live........:)

[Dragonzbane76]

I know "who" you are from your attitude! psychic ... lol goes good with your tinfoil hat. :p

And I wiil forever be thankful to the good lord for inspiring me to burn that bridge...LOL Me to.

The martial arts are a big subject area, my boy, just like food, for example. [You don't think before you type, do you?] blah blah blah... how would you know about martial arts as a "big" subject area? your stuck in fantasy land most times enough to condemn every other style besides internal Tcma. pull your head outta your butt the air is much nicer out here.

For possible future book burnings, please pay attention to your own country's oncoming dictatorship, towards which you are tip toeing as we speak.....
LOL....

Let me get this right, your country is involved in two illegal wars where thousands of innocent people are dying on BOTH sides, on daily basis. Your Constitution is being torn to shreds as the days go by, by corrupt politician/leaders, the same ones who are taking away your god given rights as a human being, as we speak, and have sold your country, lock, stock and barrel, to the banking cartels, and you see it as your "civic duty" to warn your knucklehead MMA buddies here in the forums, against me, just because I showed you to be clueless about authentic TCMA practices????? LOL

I must say, for an intelletually challenged person, you are a pretty interesting character...
mudding the waters... not a far fetched strat. from you.

"just you", because I make you look like an idiot whenever you approach me with your unprovoked personal "attacks"? nah because you lack people skills and need to learn them.


I mean you couldn't discuss genuine TCMA methodologies with me even if your life depended on it..LOL like i said i don't want to discuss that with you that time has passed.

where I am having a good laugh, me to!

And for the clip, I still maitain that you need to worry more about their KNOCK OUT DEFENSES than their take down ones...LOL, LOL, LOL..
I need not worry about anything sheee... speaking mma what are you commenting on mma for you have no background in it therefore you cannot comment on it... (is that how you do it with the TCMA thing?)

At this point in time I doubt that anything is clear in that hazy and confused mind of yours, but I am not god and I did not create you, so it is a case of live and let live........ crystal clear to be exact, I see you for what you are and on the last note i agree live and let live... just some are handicapped (you) and we have to tolerate such existances.

[Hardwork108]

psychic ... lol
See, that is what Internal training can do for you....:cool:


goes good with your tinfoil hat. :p
You say that because people like you don't see beyond their noses. Furthermore, where I live is too hot for tin foil hats, but do continue wearing one, as you seem to be obsessed with them...LOL



blah blah blah...
I didn't get that, are you attempting in vain, to discuss authentic Wing Chun and TCMA methodologies???


how would you know about martial arts as a "big" subject area?

Easy, I have a brain and I can think. At this stage this may sound incredible to the likes of you but then you have a lot of brain cell development ahead of you. Meaning that in a decade or so you will reach the Chimpanzee level of intellect and then after few more decades and with a lot of luck, you may get to average human thinking capabilities. So not to worry.....:D


your stuck in fantasy land most times enough to condemn every other style besides internal Tcma.

More LIES again!

Can you show me where I "condemned every other style"??????
You can't can you? That is because you are lying!

Tell me, have been having a lot of dinners with Dave Ross recently?:rolleyes:


pull your head outta your butt the air is much nicer out here.
How would you know?:D


mudding the waters... not a far fetched strat. from you.
nah because you lack people skills and need to learn them.
Correction, I lack knucklehead skills, as I believe being diplomatic and polite to you guys is a waste of time.


like i said i don't want to discuss that with you that time has passed.
I thank the almighty creator who made me miss the "opportunity" to discuss your views on authentic Internal TCMA training methodologies....LOL


I need not worry about anything sheee... speaking mma what are you commenting on mma for you have no background in it therefore you cannot comment on it...
Again, it is that thing called, wait for it now, are you sitting down? Ok, it is that thing called intelligence!

When any martial artist sees a fight where within the first 10 seconds both fighters knock each other completely out, then the only conclusion is that they need to work on their knock out defenses (and not on how much their takedown skills are supposedly better than traditionalists...LOL).

Of course, I am talking about a relatively intelligent conclusion, while knowing that in your case you would need a few "decades" of MMA training and people knocking the crap out of you, for you to be able to come to the same conclusion....


(is that how you do it with the TCMA thing?)
Yes, and I still do. You and the Terrence's and knifefighters (etc.) of this world are completely clueless when it comes to the TCMAs.


crystal clear to be exact,
You seem to be in denial. Further proof that you need psychological help. Why don't you try the nut house where you used to work. You might get some discounted treatment?


I see you for what you are and

And you are jealous? That is understandable, but like I have told you many times before, it is not too late, if look hard enough you may find a charitable authentic kung fu sifu who may take pity on you and teach you some of the real stuff.:)



on the last note i agree live and let live...
You agree with me???? LOL. I don't believe that for one minute...I mean no one's IQ can jump up that fast, NO ONE!:D


just some are handicapped (you) and we have to tolerate such existances.

Handicap????? Christ, now he is talking golf....LOL

Been cross training eh? :D

I mean it is good to be prepared, just in case you are attacked by golfer in a dark alley....LOL

[SAAMAG]

You and the Terrence's and knifefighters (etc.) of this world are completely clueless when it comes to the TCMAs.

That may be the case, but you cannot deny the fact that they probably have more actual fighting experience than most people who claim to know TCMA. Actual fighting experience, regardless of style, will trump any "book knowledge" out there.

It's like comparing a person who's had 4 years of a college education about business with someone who has successfully run a real-world business for the past 4 years. Which is more valuable?

One thing is for certain, I've found there to be certain universal truths about fighting that go beyond styles. The human body can only move in certain ways, and that being the case there are going to be better ways to do things over others that become evident through testing...regardless of one's affinity to one style or the other.

Though I do see how you can get peeved with every thread getting derailed by one or the other.

[Hardwork108]

That may be the case, but you cannot deny the fact that they probably have more actual fighting experience than most people who claim to know TCMA.
I am not too sure about everyone of them....


Actual fighting experience, regardless of style, will trump any "book knowledge" out there
Very true, but why does it have to be one or the other, as there are people out there who are TCMA-ists with fighting experience. They know how to make their art work and they teach their arts without b@stardizing them, while they use the "fighting angle" and combat effectiveness as a base.


It's like comparing a person who's had 4 years of a college education about business with someone who has successfully run a real-world business for the past 4 years. Which is more valuable?
The real world experience, of course, but again there are people out there who have the college degrees and the real world experience.


One thing is for certain, I've found there to be certain universal truths about fighting that go beyond styles. The human body can only move in certain ways, and that being the case there are going to be better ways to do things over others that become evident through testing...regardless of one's affinity to one style or the other.
True, but when one delves deeper into some of the TCMAs then one begins to realize the logic behind some of the more "unnatural" moves and concepts.


Though I do see how you can get peeved with every thread getting derailed by one or the other.
Well, I do because it is always the same. We have people who come into threads and put down the traditional practices in which they obviously have not had more than a superficial experience.

Then we have others who while claiming lineage, go on to blow the cross training and MMA trumpet as the ONLY WAY, not realizing that there are lineages and methodolgies within the same arts (in this case Wing Chun) that they have no idea about, and these contain approaches that they cannot even imagine.

There are those who come out and say that Wing Chun has the XYZ short comings and recommend cross training in none TCMAs to fill those "gaps", while at the same time feeling insulted if one suggests that perhaps at least some of their perceived shortcomings were due to their lineage/school/teacher.

No one seems to have the attention span to delve deeper into their arts, nor the willingness to drop their egos, to see the matters in a clearer fashion.

And on and on it goes

[SAAMAG]

Well, I do because it is always the same. We have people who come into threads and put down the traditional practices in which they obviously have not had more than a superficial experience.

Then we have others who while claiming lineage, go on to blow the cross training and MMA trumpet as the ONLY WAY, not realizing that there are lineages and methodolgies within the same arts (in this case Wing Chun) that they have no idea about, and these contain approaches that they cannot even imagine.

There are those who come out and say that Wing Chun has the XYZ short comings and recommend cross training in none TCMAs to fill those "gaps", while at the same time feeling insulted if one suggests that perhaps at least some of their perceived shortcomings were due to their lineage/school/teacher.

No one seems to have the attention span to delve deeper into their arts, nor the willingness to drop their egos, to see the matters in a clearer fashion.

And on and on it goes

Well, I think that people come to their conclusions based on their experiences. Not everyone's experiences are the same. True, we all call what we do/did wing chun--but those are really just words.

The MMA thing has always been in existence in some form or fashion, even in the formation of wing chun itself. It's just that today MMA is the new buzzword for it. I personally can't stand the term anymore because of all the hype...as I cross trained before it was a fad.

Don't let it get to you so much though HW. It's just a forum for people who like to "discuss" and have "fruitful" conversations. I personally just do it to pass the time when not doing other things. That and to see what sort of photos Sanjuro comes up with now and again.

As far as the attention span thing...maybe there's nothing more to delve into any longer? Maybe things are not as complicated as some TCMA's make them seem? Maybe you're right and some folks have martial arts ADD. But again...who cares? Remember that several paths lead to the top of a mountain, and as those paths near their destination they become closer to one another until they finally converge at the precipice.

[Frost]

The authentic "spartans" in question can beat you into a sorry pulp, before you can even say "BJJ"...;)

sure he could (i have never said i did BJJ) i have grappled and done MMA amongst other things though :)

[punchdrunk]

who are the modern spartans?? And where do they gather for Dungeons & Dragons?? Can I trade in my old x-men comics for a class?

[Frost]

who are the modern spartans?? And where do they gather for Dungeons & Dragons?? Can I trade in my old x-men comics for a class?

they are in the rain forests of brazil as far as i can gather :)

mind you if he was my student i think i'd run off to the forests to hide too!

[m1k3]

HW108, why the focus on "traditional"? To me martial arts are martial arts. As Van was saying fighting is fighting and eventually all the styles start to look the same when fighting. There are only so many ways to fight efficiently.

To me its much like medicine. There may be things that worked in traditional medicines that modern scientific medicine has missed but what it does have is proven to work unlike much that is found in traditional medicine.

I will take modern science over traditional teachings every time. It is the high percentage choice.

[Hardwork108]

sure he could
I agree with you and knew that you would eventually come to agree with me.:D



(i have never said i did BJJ) i have grappled and done MMA amongst other things though :)
Good for you old boy. I actually stopped typing and clapped loudly, sitting here in front of my computer, shouting, "bravo,bravo, bravo"!:rolleyes:

Now, next time you feel the urge to discuss grappling, MMA and your Olympic Weight lifting "credentials", then please, please, please take it to the appropriate forums.:)

[Frost]

I agree with you and knew that you would eventually come to agree with me.:D



Good for you old boy. I actually stopped typing and clapped loudly, sitting here in front of my computer, shouting, "bravo,bravo, bravo"!:rolleyes:

Now, next time you feel the urge to discuss grappling, MMA and your Olympic Weight lifting "credentials", then please, please, please take it to the appropriate forums.:)

sure just remember when you talk about authentic TCMA you are actually talking about the time you trained with a spartan who ran off to the jungle and that you never finished your training with him so your idea of TCMA is a bit off...but dont worry we wont hold it against you :)

[Hardwork108]

Well, I think that people come to their conclusions based on their experiences.
And the wisdom of your statement above seems to have been missed by a lot of people here as they see their "Wing Chun" (or "kung fu" experience) as the beginning and end of all TCMAs out there. So while their logic tells them that their training was missing some vital fighting skill sets, their ego prohibits them from even considering the possibility that they were not really learning a kung fu style, but more of a pseudo-version of it, missing essential parts and the essence of the given style.

IN short, it is always better for them to say that kung fu is bad or out of date,etc. then admit that the "TCMA"school they invested a few years in was not really teaching them genuine traditional kung fu in all of its dimensions.

That means that they search for their answers outside of the TCMAs, adopting the modern MMA approach, thinking that this somehow is superior or improves on the art of kung fu that they themselves have never understood nor really studied.


Not everyone's experiences are the same. True, we all call what we do/did wing chun--but those are really just words.
I agree and that is what I have been saying too.


The MMA thing has always been in existence in some form or fashion, even in the formation of wing chun itself.
Of course it has and that includes all other kung fu styles as well. However, the masters of old days (real masters), amalgamated various fighting approaches and techniques and brought them together within the concepts and principles of a given style of kung fu. That is why Wing Chun looks different from say Tiger Claw or Mantis, even if they all share striking and grappling techniques.

Modern MMA on the other hand is a contact ring sport that is very effective for street fighting as well, in the right hands, just as well trained genuine Kung Fu, but I doubt that there is a single art called MMA, even if an individual MMA-ist can turn what he does into an art form.


It's just that today MMA is the new buzzword for it. I personally can't stand the term anymore because of all the hype...as I cross trained before it was a fad.
I can't wait to see what the next fad that is going to bring headaches to the kung fu forum...LOL


Don't let it get to you so much though HW.
I come across as if it gets to me a lot, but things are not that bad, however, I do find that we cannot discuss genuine kung fu methodologies here because people do not seem to have a genuine TCMA reference to their knowledge and hence turn to MMA or other ring sports to make an argument or discuss a given matter. Of course, this is not bad, per se, but when it starts happening in almost every kung fu thread then one begins to realize the sorry state of the Kung Fu instruction, in the world at large.


It's just a forum for people who like to "discuss" and have "fruitful" conversations. I personally just do it to pass the time when not doing other things.
And I personally have learned more about MMA than about kung fu since I joined this forum.LOL

However, credit has to be given to some genuine sifus and practitioners who post here (not enough) once in a while. One can see a lot of wisdom and knowledge in their posts, but then others have just given up because not only they got tired of reading the same regurgitated comments about the "superiority" of BJJ and MMA, but some of them were even disrespected by the kung fu-clueless who post here.


As far as the attention span thing...maybe there's nothing more to delve into any longer? Maybe things are not as complicated as some TCMA's make them seem?
In my humble experience, I have found the TCMAs to be complicated and multi faceted. That does not mean that unscrupulous "sifus" who have nothing to teach, have not used this fact to con many students into staying with them for long periods, promising them secrets, etc., so as to withdraw maximum money from them.


Maybe you're right and some folks have martial arts ADD. But again...who cares? Remember that several paths lead to the top of a mountain, and as those paths near their destination they become closer to one another until they finally converge at the precipice.

I have no problem with people using other arts and systems to get to the top of their mountain, but I assume that all of these arts and systems have their own forums where their exponents can discuss them to their heart's desire without irritating genuine kung fu practitioners who do not want to discuss the benefits of BJJ and MMA in every kung fu thread.

The problem is enhanced by people who put down the TCMAs while claiming "valid" experience in them, experience that they have never had,no matter who they have "trained"with. The proof of that fact is in their clueless posts. So, on top of irritating the genuine kung fu practitioners, these people are potentially damgaging to kung fu newbies who may come to this forum for some genuine TCMA advice, and all they see is MMA-ists who claim "decades" of "kung fu":rolleyes: experience, badmouthing the hell out of the TCMAs.

I don know how you feel about this aspect of the situation, but it worries me and as it is even perverse.

[Hardwork108]

sure just remember when you talk about authentic TCMA you are actually talking about the time you trained with a spartan who ran off to the jungle and that you never finished your training with him so your idea of TCMA is a bit off...but dont worry we wont hold it against you :)

"Ran off to the jungle"????

Again, we have a kung fu-clueless knucklehead with his back to the wall and he starts to LIE like there is no tomorrow. LOL!

Wouldn't it be just easier and less painful for you to limit your posts to the MMA threads, that way you won't be shown to be the clueless "kung fu-ist" that you are, saving you face and preserving the little dignity that you have left here in this forum?

[Hardwork108]

HW108, why the focus on "traditional"? To me martial arts are martial arts. As Van was saying fighting is fighting and eventually all the styles start to look the same when fighting. There are only so many ways to fight efficiently.
True, and these ways of fighting include the kung fu ways, which we should be focusing on as we are posting in a kung fu forum.

No one is saying that the other ways are bad, but it gets irritating to have the other ways (BJJ. MMA, Muay Thai, etc.) showed down our throats by people who deceitfully claim genuine kung fu knowledge.

Also, I personally find it insulting when people who would not know real kung fu if it fell on their heads, criticizing the TCMAs, some of which have survived wars and revolutions for thousands of years, based soleley on the fact that the kung fu MCdojo where they studied, did not turn them into kung fu fighter or that they do not have the attention span to study the more profound methodologies even if they somehow found a genuine kung fu school that was willing to accept them!


To me its much like medicine. There may be things that worked in traditional medicines that modern scientific medicine has missed but what it does have is proven to work unlike much that is found in traditional medicine.

I will take modern science over traditional teachings every time. It is the high percentage choice.

Fair enough, but don't forget that modern science also covers up a lot of facts about Traditional Medicine, and about themselves as well.

Just the other day, a visiting friend of mine (from London) who is a homeopath, was telling me that her profession was experiencing an increased slanderous onslaught from the mainstream medical community.

There are other aspects to this, too. 10s of thousands of people are maimed or die from modern medicinal side effects but the publlicity given to that is relatively small when compared to cases of people sufferring damage while treated by some quack who claims traditional medical knowledge. Big business vs potential threat, perhaps?

Anyway, we are not in a medical forum either, suffice to say that there is more to "traditional" medicine than modern science would have us believe, not for the least for the fact that modern science has not itself figured out how some of these methodologies work - so sometimes they conveniently conclude that they don't work!

I'll just close with what an HONEST modern doctor said to me a long time ago regarding Chinese Medicine,

She said: "We know that it works, but we don't know how..."

[Dragonzbane76]

HW i have to say that i don't hold things against you only the way you come off. I will honestly say this, Kung fu in itself could learn a lot from MMA, and MMA COULD LEARN A LOT FROM KUNG FU. I find our "dialogue" most times entertaining. your entitled to your opinion and some of what you say is true, and on most occations I find the MMA fad a little overbearing.
But on the other hand hasn't mma opened doors for the traditional arts, has it not brought a spot light in. for good or bad it's what it is. I still think you have something against some meathead from the past but hey who doesn't. :p

[taai gihk yahn]

Fair enough, but don't forget that modern science also covers up a lot of facts about Traditional Medicine, and about themselves as well.

Just the other day, a visiting friend of mine (from London) who is a homeopath, was telling me that her profession was experiencing an increased slanderous onslaught from the mainstream medical community.
etc....


Anyway, we are not in a medical forum either,

correct! so I started a thread here (http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57317) on it!

[Hardwork108]

HW i have to say that i don't hold things against you only the way you come off.
I come off the way I come off because there comes a point that one stops being diplomatic to certain people.

You know, one spends time and energy practicing an art(s) and is somehow lucky enough to find a genuine sifu in a genuine lineage of Wing Chun (and in Southern Mantis, speaking for myself), and becomes exposed to sides of the art that people who practice in the franchise commercialized schools don't see.

Then one comes to a forum like this one to share a little bit of that knowledge (without betraying his school's trust and confidentiality "understandings", of course), and all that one gets is insecure ridicule and arrogance, from clueless people who claim "decades" of experience in TCMAs (as well as the usual Tae Kwon Do, BJJ, MT and god knows what else...).

So, diplomacy having failed, one then turns around and gives the clueless critiques a little taste of their own medicine. I do this in more of a tongue in cheek manner, but that has not stopped people here from making up all types of vile crap about me and my sifu in vain efforts to character assassinate my forum persona. These people have included at least one character who is referred to as a "sifu" would you believe? I believe that you know who I am referring to.


I will honestly say this, Kung fu in itself could learn a lot from MMA,
I would humbly correct you and say that Mcdojo Kung Fu and other kung fu that is taught incorrectly can learn a lot from MMA, but then why go to MMA when they should be holding genuine kung fu as their examples?


and MMA COULD LEARN A LOT FROM KUNG FU.
I believe that MMA is a complete form of sports fighting and a fair EXCHANGE of ideas between MMA and Kung fu sports fighting - Sanda/Sanshou may be a more viable proposal.


I find our "dialogue" most times entertaining.
And people say that I am dull...LOL:D


your entitled to your opinion and some of what you say is true,
Well, I hope so.


and on most occations I find the MMA fad a little overbearing.
That and the Olympic Weight lifting fad for Internal kung fu practioners...:D


But on the other hand hasn't mma opened doors for the traditional arts, has it not brought a spot light in. for good or bad it's what it is.

The only good that it has done is show the Mcdojo crowd for who they are, but unfortunately it has deluded people into thinking that the relatively few MCdojo fodder they have seen fighting in MMA matches, as representative of authentic TMA training.

IT also convinced thousands of Mcdojo kung fu practitioners (including, regular posters in this forum) , that there was something missing from the TCMAs and they had to fill in the gaps by training outside. These people never realized that there was something missing from their kung fus because they were not really training authentic kung fu but a pseudo - made for easy public consumption- version.


I still think you have something against some meathead from the past but hey who doesn't. :p
I assure you that all the meat heads I have something against are in the present!:D

[YungChun]

The only good that it has done is show the Mcdojo crowd for who they are, but unfortunately it has deluded people into thinking that the relatively few MCdojo fodder they have seen fighting in MMA matches, as representative of authentic TMA training.

IT also convinced thousands of Mcdojo kung fu practitioners (including, regular posters in this forum) , that there was something missing from the TCMAs and they had to fill in the gaps by training outside. These people never realized that there was something missing from their kung fus because they were not really training authentic kung fu but a pseudo - made for easy public consumption- version.


So, there isn't one single example world-wide of anyone competing in MMA or similar format that has the "Real Kung-Fu"?

And if you can't show a single example of a real practitioner doing this then your statement is baseless because there is zero evidence for anyone to make an assessment (not that one person would be much evidence).

In other words if you can't point to even a single example of what you speak of then it simply doesn't exist. All you have left is a theory or nice idea...

Basic first grade logic.

[Hardwork108]

So, there isn't one single example world-wide of anyone competing in MMA or similar format that has the "Real Kung-Fu"?
I wouldn't know as I have not seen all the MMA format matches that have happened on this planet. However, knowing the fact that over 95% of the TCMA school out in the West are Mcdojos and having seen the manner in which some of the "kung fu" fighters in the such formats, represented the TCMAs, it is fair to conclude that their performance should not be used to judge the street/combat effectiveness of genuine kung fu exponents.


And if you can't show a single example of a real practitioner doing this then your statement is baseless because there is zero evidence for anyone to make an assessment (not that one person would be much evidence).

Could it be that you misunderstood what I said in my previous post? Because, I am actually saying that real kung fu was not really represented in MMA matches.


In other words if you can't point to even a single example of what you speak of then it simply doesn't exist. All you have left is a theory or nice idea...
Again, you may have misunderstood my main point, as I do not see logic in your statement.


Basic first grade logic.
Well, from one of us, at least......

[YungChun]

I wouldn't know as I have not seen all the MMA format matches that have happened on this planet. However, knowing the fact that over 95% of the TCMA school out in the West are Mcdojos and having seen the manner in which some of the "kung fu" fighters in the such formats, represented the TCMAs, it is fair to conclude that their performance should not be used to judge the street/combat effectiveness of genuine kung fu exponents.



Could it be that you misunderstood what I said in my previous post? Because, I am actually saying that real kung fu was not really represented in MMA matches.


Again, you may have misunderstood my main point, as I do not see logic in your statement.


Well, from one of us, at least......


Btw: How old are you?

You apparently can't point to a single example of the "real kung-fu" actually fighting yet you assert that it exists.

You see you are asserting that something exists when in fact you can't find any example of it. It's not about MMA it's about finding one single example of anyone with "the real kung-fu" doing it in any competition and showing its superiority (to the fake stuff) anywhere in the known universe...

I mean feel free to correct me and show us one single example of "the real kung-fu" fighting......

Can you?

If you can't find even one single example then by definition it doesn't exist.. Not to say that it couldn't---but if there is no evidence, if no one can show it, prove it, then it does not exist, except in your head...

But I know where you are coming from..

I own one of the few "real Beagles".. You see 99.9999% of Beagle owners world-wide own sub-standard Beagles, but they don't know it.. You see what makes my Beagle of true quality Beagle blood is that my Beagle can fly..

Now I personally have never seen my Beagle fly but I know that he can because the Master Breeder that I bought him from told me so... And I know this Breeder is the real deal because people travel from all over the world (by invitation only) to buy and own a true Flying Beagle.

I have even heard from some of these folks or through someone who knows one of them that they have seen their Beagle fly. So I know that this is the true Flying Beagle bloodline and that Flying Beagles are real..

You may ask why most folks haven't seen any of the true and real Flying Beagles and it's a valid question.. The truth is we don't want too many people to find out about the true Flying Beagle bloodline.. If it became public then everyone would have a Flying Beagle and, well then having one just wouldn't be nearly as much fun...

[Hardwork108]

Btw: How old are you?
I am 47, and how old are you?

BTW, your profile says that you practice Wing Chun. How do you classify what you study? Real Wing Chun, or the usual Mcdojo variety?


You apparently can't point to a single example of the "real kung-fu" actually fighting yet you assert that it exists.

You have got this all wrong. I have seen real kung fu because I was fortunate enough to find real kung fu sifus to train with. However, most people will know that the original (real) design of kung fu was not for sports competitions.

So, for kung fu to be successful in a ring sports format, then it will needed to be adapted, to compensate for the rules and so on, hence welcome to the world of Sanshou/Sanda!

There you can see kung fu sports fighting!

For kung fu street fighting go to a kwoon, preferably in your local China Town (after some intelligent research, of course) and make a challenge to fight the sifu or one of the seniors. I believe that some traditional kwoons still accept challengers.


You see you are asserting that something exists when in fact you can't find any example of it. It's not about MMA it's about finding one single example of anyone with "the real kung-fu" doing it in any competition anywhere in the known universe...

I mean feel free to correct me and show me just one single example of "the real kung-fu"......

Can you?

If you can't find even one single example then by definition it doesn't exist.. Not to say that it couldn't but if there is no evidence it does not as of yet exist...

I did mention San da/Sanshou before, but I will also add that many Mainland Chinese San da fighters maintain their traditional forms/internal training parallel with their sports fighting one.


If you can't find even one single example then by definition it doesn't exist.. Not to say that it couldn't but if there is no evidence it does not as of yet exist...
This attitude of yours begs the question of why you study Wing Chun, if you don't believe that real kung fu exists????

Do you study it in a McKwoon?

Do you not see your sifu as an authentic kung fu sifu?

Did you discover the MMA or BJJ way, and now you have a reason to live? LOL


But I know where you are coming from..

Unfortunately for you, you DON'T!

[YungChun]

This attitude of yours begs the question of why you study Wing Chun, if you don't believe that real kung fu exists????

Do you study it in a McKwoon?

Do you not see your sifu as an authentic kung fu sifu?

Did you discover the MMA or BJJ way, and now you have a reason to live? LOL


Unfortunately for you, you DON'T!

My attitude is what?

My opinion is that you believe in something that does not exist because you can't point to a single example of it.. See how that works? No I guess not.

I am simply pointing out the facts... It is not my assertions in question but yours.. You assert something exists.. See it's just like Terence and others who also say their way is the "real" way but can't say or show what that is, and/or show its superiority.

You are making the claim that none of the KF seen fighting is "the real kung-fu" so show us "the real kung-fu".. If you can't then you need to re-evaluate what real means.

It's such a simple concept that I find it amazing that you can't grasp it... I must assume your entire world-view is based on what you think it should be rather than what it is..

You cannot show one single example of "real kung fu" fighting, or at least have not shown it yet..

So can you? Show us one single example of real KF fighting??

If you can't find even one example then what you think is "real" kung fu doesn't exist..

This has nothing to do with what I think... YOU are the one making the nutty assertions.

Want to buy a true flying Beagle? (they're very rare!)

[Hardwork108]

My attitude is what?

My opinion is that you believe in something that does not exist because you can't point to a single example of it.. See how that works? No I guess not.

I am simply pointing out the facts... It is not my assertions in question but yours.. You assert something exists.. See it's just like Terence and others who also say their way is the "real" way but can't say or show what that is, and/or show its superiority.

You are making the claim that none of the KF seen fighting is "the real kung-fu" so show us "the real kung-fu".. If you can't then you need to re-evaluate what real means.

It's such a simple concept that I find it amazing that you can't grasp it... I must assume your entire world-view is based on what you think it should be rather than what it is..

You cannot show one single example of "real kung fu" fighting, or at least have not shown it yet..

So can you? Show us one single example of real KF fighting??

If you can't find even one example then what you think is "real" kung fu doesn't exist..

This has nothing to do with what I think... YOU are the one making the nutty assertions.

Want to buy a true flying Beagle? (they're very rare!)

I think that you got up on the wrong side of the bed today. IF real kung fu doesn't exist, then what are you doing studying McWing Chun? LOL

AND, don't you consider San da as real (sportified) kung fu? After all, sports Muay Thai is a sportified version of REAL traditional bare knuckle Thai Boxing.

Why did you avoid all the points and questions I asked in my last post?

[YungChun]

I think that you got up on the wrong side of the bed today. IF real kung fu doesn't exist, then what are you doing studying McWing Chun? LOL

AND, don't you consider San da as real (sportified) kung fu? After all, sports Muay Thai is a sportified version of REAL traditional bare knuckle Thai Boxing.

Why did you avoid all the points and questions I asked in my last post?

I didn't day anything about real kung fu ...

YOU DID!

So WTF are you talking about?

You consistently say we have not seen the real KF fighting..

So, I am asking you to show us what YOU think the real KF fighting is...

Can you or not? One clip will do.. Yet instead you whine and jibe like a child. (child's voice--What are you another mcdojo mma lover? hahahah) You sound like you're 9.

This is not about what I think real KF is.. What does what I think real KF is have to do with your assertions or my asking you to show (what YOU think is) the real KF?

YOU are the one consistently talking about "the real KF", which btw is what folks sounded like 20 to 30 or more years ago.. "The real karate, the real KF" etc...

You are the one dodging the only question.. Where is it? Why can't you show us one single example of what you think is the "Real KF"?

I won't ask again.

[goju]

The real kung fu is non-corporeal

it will manifest it self come 2012 into human form as the mayans prophesied

[Frost]

I didn't day anything about real kung fu ...

YOU DID!

So WTF are you talking about?

You consistently say we have not seen the real KF fighting..

So, I am asking you to show us what YOU think the real KF fighting is...

Can you or not? One clip will do.. Yet instead you whine and jibe like a child. (child's voice--What are you another mcdojo mma lover? hahahah) You sound like you're 9.

This is not about what I think real KF is.. What does what I think real KF is have to do with your assertions or my asking you to show (what YOU think is) the real KF?

YOU are the one consistently talking about "the real KF", which btw is what folks sounded like 20 to 30 or more years ago.. "The real karate, the real KF" etc...

You are the one dodging the only question.. Where is it? Why can't you show us one single example of what you think is the "Real KF"?

I won't ask again.

give it up he is a 47 year old LARPER who is so dilusional that he feels people like Ronin, David Ross and just about anyoneelse who disagrees with him doesn't have real kungfu

He doesn't even train for lords sake he is a sad joke

[Hardwork108]

I didn't day anything about real kung fu ...

YOU DID!

So WTF are you talking about?

You consistently say we have not seen the real KF fighting..

So, I am asking you to show us what YOU think the real KF fighting is...

Can you or not? One clip will do.. Yet instead you whine and jibe like a child. (child's voice--What are you another mcdojo mma lover? hahahah) You sound like you're 9.

This is not about what I think real KF is.. What does what I think real KF is have to do with your assertions or my asking you to show (what YOU think is) the real KF?

YOU are the one consistently talking about "the real KF", which btw is what folks sounded like 20 to 30 or more years ago.. "The real karate, the real KF" etc...

You are the one dodging the only question.. Where is it? Why can't you show us one single example of what you think is the "Real KF"?

I won't ask again.

You are coming off as a real idiot....LOL

You said that Real Kung fu does not exist because I have not shown it to you???? Yet you claim to practice Wing Chun on your profile. I can only assume that you are a MC kung fu practitioner, if you are asking me of the proof that real kung fu exists...LOL

BTW, you didn't tell me your age either!

Also, save your assertiveness for your boyfriend, OK kiddo?

I believe that you asked to see "real" kung fu in sports fighting context such as those of the other contact arts such as MMA and Muay Thai. And you forgot that of the existance of Sanda/Sanshou - that is - you put your foot in it. Now you are trying to wiggle your way out of this, just like a little girl....LOL

Well here it is, sportified REAL kung fu fighting for your clueless eyes (against sportified Real Karate and Muay Thai, to start with):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ_tuv0_tk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk5rKEG-gJo

And here is a clip from 1988. This a Baji quan contest (with some rules obviously), however, those who have even a little familiarity with this system (I don't mean you, as you probably have your hands full with your Wing chun and this is causing enough strain on your affeminate and fragile brain, as it is....) will recognize the fighters' approach and techniques as Baji.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir0MWNtMv4

This one is from India. Kung fu vs Tae Kwon Do - CONTACT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE

And here is another format of REAL sports kung fu fighting from China. Filmed in the 1980s (short hightlights)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvbIDwdA7Y8&feature=related

OK? Don't tell me that you wanted to see a kung fu fighter in traditional silk uniform poking his opponent's eyes out...LOL, LOL, LOL

You know, you should really consider asking for your money back from your Wing Chun sifu. Actually, I don't think you are cut out for KUng fu. You live in NYC, so why don't you try Dave Ross's school of "San Duh!", or failing that, perhaps you can try for the New York Ballet. I bet some of the boys there would "appreciate" your internet assertiveness...LOL

[It is true! One really does meet strange people on the internet, :rolleyes:]

[YungChun]

You are coming off as a real idiot....LOL

You said that Real Kung fu does not exist because I have not shown it to you???? Yet you claim to practice Wing Chun on your profile. I can only assume that you are a MC kung fu practitioner, if you are asking me of the proof that real kung fu exists...LOL

BTW, you didn't tell me your age either!

Also, save your assertiveness for your boyfriend, OK kiddo?

I believe that you asked to see "real" kung fu in sports fighting context such as those of the other contact arts such as MMA and Muay Thai. And you forgot that of the existance of Sanda/Sanshou - that is - you put your foot in it. Now you are trying to wiggle your way out of this, just like a little girl....LOL

Well here it is, sportified REAL kung fu fighting for your clueless eyes (against sportified Real Karate and Muay Thai, to start with):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ_tuv0_tk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk5rKEG-gJo

And here is a clip from 1988. This a Baji quan contest (with rules obviously), however, those who have even a little familiarity with this system (I don't mean you, as you probably have your hands full with your Wing chun need to spend more time with it...) will recognize the fighters´ approach and techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir0MWNtMv4

This one is from India. Kung fu vs Tae Kwon Do - CONTACT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0CIy9ZZEQE

And here is another format of REAL sports kung fu fighting from China. Filmed in the 1980s (short hightlights)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvbIDwdA7Y8&feature=related

OK? Don't tell me that you wanted to see a kung fu fighter in traditional silk uniform poking his opponent's eyes out...LOL, LOL, LOL

You know, you should really consider asking for your money back from your Wing Chun sifu. Actually, I don't think you are cut out for KUng fu. You live in NYC, so why don't you try Dave Ross's school of "San Duh!", or failing that, perhaps you can try for the New York Ballet. I bet some of the boys there would "appreciate" your internet assertiveness...LOL

[It is true! One really does meet strange people on the internet, :rolleyes:]

You're a brainless boob.. Folks of low intelligence resort to that kind of BS. :)

Your childish insults clearly demonstrate that..

What worse is your inability to read.

For the second time: I never said there was no "real kung fu".. (whatever that means) I am talking about what YOU think is "real".. Re-read that last sentence.

I simply asked you to show it..

Now you finally did (I guess it takes a while to get through all that bone) you posted some links..

Very good..so now we can get an idea of what you approve of as "real".

[Hardwork108]

give it up he is a 47 year old LARPER who is so dilusional that he feels people like Ronin, David Ross and just about anyoneelse who disagrees with him doesn't have real kungfu
None of those you mention are kung fu exponents. They have trained it for apparently decades, but I don't think that even you would call any of them a sifu. Or perhaps you will if they gave you a punch bag or a few barbells, as presents. LOL


He doesn't even train for lords sake he is a sad joke
And your desperate lies and slanderous attempts continue.......:rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

You're a brainless boob..

AND


Your childish insults clearly demonstrate that..

LOL just LOL!


What worse is your inability to read.
Hey, you work on your ability to write and I will work on my ability to read, ok? LOL


For the second time: I never said there was no "real kung fu"..

Well, you said that if I can't show it to you, then it doesn't exist...LOL!



(whatever that means)
That comment is very revealing...anyway, good luck with whatever it is that you train......


I am talking about what YOU think is "real".. Re-read that last sentence.
Actually, it does not matter what I think to be real kung fu. It does not matter what you think (which obviously you don't as you cannot even define what "real" kung fu means). Real kung fu just IS and it has been around for a long time.

IT HAS TO BE EXPERIENCED TO BE UNDERSTOOD!


I simply asked you to show it..
Next time be clearer!


Now you finally did
Well, now that you have seen real kung fu, you will have a stronger argument when you ask your "sifu" for your money back.......



(I guess it takes a while to get through all that bone)
Only when you are blabbing like some cognitively challenged individual.


you posted some links..
I hope that you find the attention span to watch and enlighten yourself....


Very good..so now we can get an idea of what you approve of as "real".

Again, it does not matter what I approve. Real kung fu just IS. You either train it or you don't. So you need to find it and train it, oh boy, you really need to find it and train it!!!!!:rolleyes:

[YungChun]

Hey, you work on your ability to write and I will work on my ability to read, ok? LOL


Right, apparently "Show it" was too long of a sentence for all 3 of your brain cells.. LOL

Nothing any more real there than anywhere else dewd...

No Chun though so we still don't know what you think real Chun is, I'll assume you couldn't find any chun real enough....

Now I'll stop and let the rest of the group torture you for a while..

[Frost]

None of those you mention are kung fu exponents. They have trained it for apparently decades, but I don't think that even you would call any of them a sifu. Or perhaps you will if they gave you a punch bag or a few barbells, as presents. LOL


And your desperate lies and slanderous attempts continue.......:rolleyes:

SO WHo DO YOU TRAIN WITH NOW.. AND WHAT SYSTEMS HAVE YOU COMPLETED TO BE ABLE TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON OTHERS

simple questions that even a simple mind can answer :)

[goju]

HOLY CRAP!

DON'T MAKE ME SIT YOU THREE IN SEPERATE CORNERS IF YOU WONT BEHAVE YOURSELVES:eek::D

[Hardwork108]

SO WHo DO YOU TRAIN WITH NOW.. AND WHAT SYSTEMS HAVE YOU COMPLETED TO BE ABLE TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON OTHERS
I haven't "completed" any kung fu systems. Have you? My main experience is in Mainland Chinese Wing Chun and Chow Gar. However, you knew that already, but you had to ask again, didn't you? Well, I guess it is that short knucklehead attention span, striking again...LOL

And who I train with is none of your d@mn business, as you would not know any of them anyway (they are not well known in Olympic weight lifting cirlcles, to start with...LOL), and I have also given you the same answer before!


simple questions that even a simple mind can answer :)
You know, more often then not, simple minds ask simple questions........

[Hardwork108]

HOLY CRAP!

DON'T MAKE ME SIT YOU THREE IN SEPERATE CORNERS IF YOU WONT BEHAVE YOURSELVES:eek::D

Don't worry, Yung Chun has gone off to rethink his "kung fu":rolleyes: path, and I will soon be heading for a nap, and guess Frost will be left alone playing with his Olympic "barbells", hoping to increase his internal power, no doubt...:D

[Hardwork108]

Right, apparently "Show it" was too long of a sentence for all 3 of your brain cells.. LOL
Show it can mean a lot of things, specially when initially I had no idea of the degree of your kung fu cluelessness.


Nothing any more real there than anywhere else dewd...
Another revealing sentence........you know, if you are going to shoot yourself in the foot all the time, then there is no point in arguing with me....I mean you take the fun out of it.....;)


No Chun though so we still don't know what you think real Chun is, I'll assume you couldn't find any chun real enough....
Did you want fighting clips or demonstration clips. Or even perhaps a five page written description.

Actually, let me make it easy for you and give you a hint. REAL wing chun is real kung fu. You will need strong but mobile roots (not hopping around like rabbit or a boxer, tkd-ist etc.). You will also need to create extra fine tuned "sensitivity"and "listening" abilities. Initially in your hands and arms but then in your legs and the rest of your body. What I am talking about covers more scope than "I do chi sao and now I have sensitive hands" definition. As for this kind of skill you will need some serious Internal training.

You must also stick to other WC principles, including the well known Central line theory and the forward energy and so on.

You must practice Iron Palm/Fist skills as well to a potent level. BTW, no matter what the knucklehead fraternity here tell you, IP training is not solely about breaking hard objects.

Anyway, that is enough for now......


Now I'll stop and let the rest of the group torture you for a while..

"Torture":confused:

Boy, I say it again, you really do meet strange people on the internet...

[Frost]

I haven't "completed" any kung fu systems. Have you? My main experience is in Mainland Chinese Wing Chun and Chow Gar. However, you knew that already, but you had to ask again, didn't you? Well, I guess it is that short knucklehead attention span, striking again...LOL

And who I train with is none of your d@mn business, as you would not know any of them anyway (they are not well known in Olympic weight lifting cirlcles, to start with...LOL), and I have also given you the same answer before!


You know, more often then not, simple minds ask simple questions........

actually last time i checked you admitted to not having a teacher at the moment...is this still the case:)

So you have not come close to competing any TCMA style but yet you can judge others who have.....right i think you need to grow up get a lift and move out of your mums basement :)

[Dragonzbane76]

right i think you need to grow up get a lift and move out of your mums basement


swear i've told him that a thousand times....:)

[YungChun]

Show it can mean a lot of things, specially when initially I had no idea of the degree of your kung fu cluelessness.


Another revealing sentence........you know, if you are going to shoot yourself in the foot all the time, then there is no point in arguing with me....I mean you take the fun out of it.....;)


Did you want fighting clips or demonstration clips. Or even perhaps a five page written description.

Actually, let me make it easy for you and give you a hint. REAL wing chun is real kung fu. You will need strong but mobile roots (not hopping around like rabbit or a boxer, tkd-ist etc.). You will also need to create extra fine tuned "sensitivity"and "listening" abilities. Initially in your hands and arms but then in your legs and the rest of your body. What I am talking about covers more scope than "I do chi sao and now I have sensitive hands" definition. As for this kind of skill you will need some serious Internal training.

You must also stick to other WC principles, including the well known Central line theory and the forward energy and so on.

You must practice Iron Palm/Fist skills as well to a potent level. BTW, no matter what the knucklehead fraternity here tell you, IP training is not solely about breaking hard objects.

Anyway, that is enough for now......



"Torture":confused:

Boy, I say it again, you really do meet strange people on the internet...

Very impressive, how many weeks have you trained?

So beyond all the BS where is the "real" Wing Chun? This is the subject after all of all of your "real" comments, not every other style but..

So to make it simple.. Show the "real" Chun Fighting....

Oh and I love the secret lineage.. Any affiliation with the Wall-Mart Wing Chun Family? :D

[Hardwork108]

Very impressive, how many weeks have you trained?
Some of my kung fu history is in my profile, just make a click and go crazy.


So beyond all the BS where is the "real" Wing Chun?
The real Wing Chun is in my sifu's kwoon and probably in limited number of other kwoons all over the world. You would be best advised to look for one......


This is the subject after all of all of your "real" comments, not every other style but..
Hey, you asked for real kung fu. I showed it to you, now you want to see "real" Wing Chun? LOL


So to make it simple.. Show the "real" Chun Fighting....
My lineage of Wing Chun fighters do not enter sports competition. I suspect that many other genuine traditional WC schools do not enter them either.

However, if you are so desperate to see real Wing Chun fighting, and you have not come across it in your school, then take my previous advice and find a traditional kwoon and put your money where your mouth is and make a challenge.

Having said that, here is a video from what looks like a real Wing Chun fighter against a Northern Shaolin stylist. This very short clip is filmed in Brazil. The match is full contact and I believe that even you will recognize the Wing Chun elements (the fighter in black).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv2FULpeTto


Oh and I love the secret lineage..
There is nothing "secret" about my lineage. It is just that you are not familiar with it, ;)


Any affiliation with the Wall-Mart Wing Chun Family? :D
No, we are not affiliated to your MCdojo Wing Chun family, but do keep on practicing and perhaps in a few decades we will consider letting you into our kwoon, to clean our changing room floors, that is.....

[Hardwork108]

actually last time i checked you admitted to not having a teacher at the moment...is this still the case:)
If I recall corretly, last time you checked, I had mentioned that I was about to start training in a new school. It is amazing how some knuckleheads suffer from the Convenient Memory Loss Syndrom, I believe that the more evolved ones amongst you refer to this as CMLS, as it sounds more hip and "intelligent".


So you have not come close to co mpleting any TCMA style but yet you can judge others who have.....

Hey, 8 years in the Harvard Business School is much better than 30 years in the unaccredited McUniversity of Shmucksville, Business School....;)

So, it is that old case of quality vs quantity.......an equasion that so confuses the poor knuckleheads of this world, who wrongly believe that high quantity of diminishing brain cell count from excessive contact fighting in none TCMAs will some how correlate with greatness as "kung fu-ists"....LOL


right i think
A knucklehead "thinking"????:eek:

There is hope for the human race, yet......

Who would have thought?:D


you need to grow up get a lift and move out of your mums basement :)
And you need to grow up and limit your forum comments to subject areas you are familiar with and preferably in the MMA threads. It is not that much to ask.

Of course, getting a life would not hurt you either.....

[Hardwork108]

swear i've told him that a thousand times....:)

Hey, if I had listened and done everything that you have told me so far, then I would have had to have jumped off a cliff at least half a dozen times; thrown myself under a truck, more than once; shot my self a few times as well, and worse of all I would have to be respectful to the knuckleheads of this forum:D

Following any advice from you is not going to be good for my health, I tell ya...LOL

[Hardwork108]

Very Interesting.......

I posted one video of two MMA guys knocking each other out as a light-hearted come back to Terrence's "Wing Chun beats MMA" thread, and it seems that some of our "kung fu" guys, with "decades" of experience took it as an offense and felt obliged to RETALIATE, thus showing us all where their true alligiance lay.

This thread has been revealing as regards the true undercurrents of this board, not to mention the general TCMA cluelessness of many of those who claim kung fu experience and hence knowledge.

It is all just sad, really................

[goju]

actually if i recall that knock out correctly one of the competitors was a tradtional martial artist as he did tkd

[Hardwork108]

actually if i recall that knock out correctly one of the competitors was a tradtional martial artist as he did tkd

Most TKD out there is as traditional as a NASA military satellite. LOL

Besides, none of the knock out strikes were "traditional TKD" ones.....:D

[YungChun]

Having said that, here is a video from what looks like a real Wing Chun fighter against a Northern Shaolin stylist. This very short clip is filmed in Brazil. The match is full contact and I believe that even you will recognize the Wing Chun elements (the fighter in black).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv2FULpeTto


So, you feel this is the real deal chun but what others have posted is not?

You are (one of) the self proclaimed elitists here... (lots of talk)

So why don't you explain what elements seen there are more correct and more real chun than in others...in-between spurts of your explosive diarrhea potty mouth. (no doubt why you keep your lineage a secret--if your teacher knew you posted as you do, he would probably boot you.)

[SoCo KungFu]

Having said that, here is a video from what looks like a real Wing Chun fighter against a Northern Shaolin stylist. This very short clip is filmed in Brazil. The match is full contact and I believe that even you will recognize the Wing Chun elements (the fighter in black).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv2FULpeTto


Awesome. So the Realz Wing Chun is running in blindly lobbing punches that barely connect all while having little to no sense of defensive positioning. Glad to know that should I ever face a Chunner in MMA I'll be getting my free KO victory.

[Hardwork108]

Awesome. So the Realz Wing Chun is running in blindly lobbing punches that barely connect all while having little to no sense of defensive positioning. Glad to know that should I ever face a Chunner in MMA I'll be getting my free KO victory.

First of all, I said that he "looked" like he was real Wing Chun, as he used certain WC principles/techniques in fighting. I did not claim that he was an expert(like all you guys apparently seem to be :rolleyes:) in "real" Wing Chun, however, he still had enough fighting context WC to make the clip worth posting.

His intercept kick that put his opponent down was also a (of course, not exclusively) Wing Chun technique.

He obviously had a weaker opponent, so he rushed him in, like you are supposed to do in WC, when you see weaknesses and openings, then he stuck to him (like you are supposed to do in WC), without giving him a chance to use his space, and this tactic turned out to be fruitful.

So, I don't know what your problem (besides an obvious lack of Wing Chun knowledge) is, as I am sure if an MMA knucklehead had rushed in and beat up a Wing Chun or that same Northern Shaolin exponent, you and most of your MMA bretheren here in the forums, would be glowing in an aftermath of an orgasmic triumph......

BTW, If you had a single real fight in your life you would also know that not all punches connect, specially, if like the guy on the video, one is not an expert, in a given fighting system. However, kudos to him as he seemed to at least attempt to use his art, and he did so with satisfactory success, without resorting to the more "functional" hopping around like a boxer/TKD-ist,or kangaroo?:D

[Hardwork108]

So, you feel this is the real deal chun
This is real Wing Chun in a fighting context. Read my reply to SoCoKung fu!



but what others have posted is not?
Some of what others have posted is real WC, but most of it is not!

Or are you implying that most of the crap posted on YouTube is real Wing Chun or even real kung fu??? LOL

Boy, the kung fu world really is in a sad state......


You are (one of) the self proclaimed elitists here...
You are confusing "Elitist" with "Realist"!


(lots of talk)
Sometimes, lots of talk is necessary to get the point across to people who have deluded themselves into believing that they have actual kung fu knowledge, while they are nothing but Jack of All Trades, cross trainers, with some MCKUng fu experience thrown in.

Of course, lots of talk is also necessary when dealing with knuckleheads with single digit IQs.;)


So why don't you explain what elements seen there are more correct and more real chun than in others...
Again, I have not compared it to others. I have posted that particular video clip for its own merits and if you cannot see the WC in that short clip, then not only should you ask your sifu for your money back, but also to sue him for wasting years of your life!

And the "elements" you ask for are in the video, and I have explained them to our friend So"Called"KungFu (some say he is a direct disciple of Yip Man, himself..LOL), who also failed to see the WC in that clip and more or less said, and surprise, surprise, that his MMA would defeat that Wing Chuner - thus missing the point of that video clip, and yet again confirming my earlier point about the true (MMA) undercurrents in this forum!


in-between spurts of your explosive diarrhea potty mouth.
Hey, it is only "diarrhea" to you because through your own personal insecurities, you choose to see it that way. Perhaps, you should look within yourself, meditate and cure your own "shiity" perspective?


(no doubt why you keep your lineage a secret--if your teacher knew you posted as you do, he would probably boot you.)

Wrong again. My lineage is not a secret. I just don't want to keep repeating it on the world wide web for the pleasure of people who will not get anything out of it, and who through their own immoral ignorance will run my lineage through idiotic internet mud throwing games, and that has already happened here in this forum in the past and the people who did it include one of New York's non-Wing Chun, glorified kickboxing, McSifus!

However, I can tell you that it is a Mainland Chinese lineage that comes down from Fung Siu Shing. There now, don't you feel illuminated now?

I bet now you are going to research for yourself to find out different aspects of this lineage to enrich your own WC knowledge...LOL.....Nah, I believe you will just switch off and try and ask me some other irrelevanT (to you) facts....:rolleyes:

[YungChun]

Hey, it is only "diarrhea" to you because through your own personal insecurities, you choose to see it that way. Perhaps, you should look within yourself, meditate and cure your own "shiity" perspective?


No, you don't see the poop you post because you weren't raised right... LOL :D

Have fun pooping...poopy..

[Hardwork108]

No, you don't see the poop you post because you weren't raised right... LOL :D
Actually, I get a "raise" almost every night. That is the advantage of living in country full of beautiful women and working in nightclubs.:D


Have fun pooping...poopy..
And I will "have fun pooping" on the heads of all the jealous guys here who have to wait for Sanjuro to post some picture, to get their "raise"....:D

[Dragonzbane76]

Hey, if I had listened and done everything that you have told me so far, then I would have had to have jumped off a cliff at least half a dozen times; thrown myself under a truck, more than once; shot my self a few times as well, and worse of all I would have to be respectful to the knuckleheads of this forum

Following any advice from you is not going to be good for my health, I tell ya...LOL
__________________

apparently you didn't listen to my advise then....:p

[Kansuke]

Some of my kung fu history is in my profile.....



Except for the 'secret' parts, eh? LOL :rolleyes:

[Kansuke]

The real Wing Chun is in my sifu's kwoon .....


You mean the one you were kicked out of?

[Hardwork108]

Except for the 'secret' parts, eh? LOL :rolleyes:
Hello Dave Ross, long time no see. I see you have come back to making an idiot out of yourself on the world wide web, again.


You mean the one you were kicked out of?
Reply With
And I see that you are sticking to the tactic of telling blatant lies to make an idiot out of yourself, as well.

By the way, how is the current economic crisis effecting your New York San Duh!(TM) glorified kickboxing school? OR have you now diversified into selling dodgy second hand cars to make ends meet? LOL

[Kansuke]

I see that you are sticking to the tactic of telling blatant lies



In other words - YES - you were referring to the kwoon you were kicked the hell out of. Hiding shame behind denial...

[Hardwork108]

In other words - YES - you were referring to the kwoon you were kicked the hell out of. Hiding shame behind denial...

LOL...@ Dave Ross,

I am just mystified at your love of lying and making dishonest posts on the internet..LOL

Dave, I sincerely believe that you should get laid more often. I know things are tight right now but perhaps you could use the economic crisis to your advantage and find some discounted offers at your local bordel? I am sure some 10 dollar wh0re there will take pity on you for sure... LOL,LOL,LOL

[Kansuke]

Dave, I sincerely believe that you should get laid more often.


You and he can work that out among yourselves, I don't want to hear about it.

[Ultimatewingchun]

But, Jezz....I'm amazed that you posted this, Vankuen...in response to Hardwork's post:

"Originally Posted by Hardwork108
You and the Terrence's and knifefighters (etc.) of this world are completely clueless when it comes to the TCMAs."
............................


"That may be the case, but you cannot deny the fact that they probably have more actual fighting experience than most people who claim to know TCMA. Actual fighting experience, regardless of style, will trump any 'book knowledge'....etc."


***COME ON, VAN... You still haven't caught on to the fact that Terence Niehoff has about as much "actual fighting experience" as my late aunt, may she rest in peace.

He's a fraud.

Dale Frank (Knifefighter) may be a troll - but he's the real deal. The other guy?! Nooooo way.

[Hardwork108]

You and he can work that out among yourselves, I don't want to hear about it.

You are not fooling anyone Dave Ross.......LOL

[Hardwork108]

***COME ON, VAN... You still haven't caught on to the fact that Terence Niehoff has about as much "actual fighting experience" as my late aunt, may she rest in peace.
Don't sell your aunt short. I say that because it would not surprise me if she had slightly more fighting experience than Terrence.:D

[Kansuke]

You are not fooling anyone Dave Ross.......LOL

And you are apparently not taking the medicine your doctor prescribed.

[David Jamieson]

LOL this is awesome!!

The trolls are trolling the trolls!

the greatest day ever! right here only on kfm.
take a screenshot! :D

[Hardwork108]

LOL this is awesome!!

The trolls are trolling the trolls!

the greatest day ever! right here only on kfm.
take a screenshot! :D

The troll team became complete once you joined "Kansuke" in this thread.:cool:

[Hardwork108]

And you are apparently not taking the medicine your doctor prescribed.

Hey Dave, I always take my anti-nausea medicine when I am interacting with you and the likes of David Jamieson in this forum (they don't always work when it comes to you guys, but I assure you that I take them, LOL).