Wing Chun in Groundfighting

[TenTigers]

I've heard people say that their Wing Chun is applicable in groundfighting.

What I think would be a more accurate statement, is that their training allowed them to utilize certain skills, possibly engage their core, apply whole body sensitivity, generate short power on strikes, etc.

If there are people who feel that they are using WCK techniques during grappling on the ground, I would be interested in knowing specifically which techniques, and how they are being used.

I don't really need to see "video proof," as much as I would like to see an intelligent discussion. (no vidiots allowed)

[Knifefighter]

WC has as much groundfighting as boxing.

[TenTigers]

like I said, I don't think it's so much that the actual techniques are being used, but the skills and body usage.
Basically, you can draw from alot of things,even weightlifting.
But if you can, and you apply it, and you draw the connections, then it's all good.

[anerlich]

The only groundfighting I've seen as part of a WC curriculum involved only fighting with you on the ground and the opponent standing. There was no concept of finishing on the ground, only keeping the guy away or takig him down long enough long enough to regain your feet.

The "techniques" in brief:

Postures and movements designed to keep your feet and legs between you and your opponent, while avoiding getting them stomped on

Stomp and side kicks to various targets, with or without a trap and scissor with the non-kicking leg to affect a trip/takedown or increase damage to the knee

Techniques to create space enough to regain the feet with comparative safety.

Similar approaches have been used to good effect in MMA - Goes vs Sakuraba, Inoki vs Ali. My MMA coach teaches a similar approach as basic defense against a standing opponent.

I've been doing BJJ for about 11 years, so i am under no illusions that this stuff is a real substitute for a complete ground system.

[goju]

i think they are referring too as an example, if someones in you guard you can pin or trap their arms to prevent them from doing anything with them

[Dragonzbane76]

a high school wrestler with 6 months training has more groundfighting than most KF styles.

[sanjuro_ronin]

See, we have to be careful when we "see" things that relate from one system to another.
EX:
BJJ's base core "principle" is Position before submission, you get into the right position and are "set" properly before you try a submission, this not only allows you to apply the sub better but allows you to flow from one more/position to another if/when your attempt is countered.
EVERY MA has this core principle- getting into the "right" position before attempting a technique.
So does this mean that EVERY MA is applicable to ground work?
Nope.
Its a whole different world on the ground.

[mjw]

I train in both WC & BJJ at 2 seperate gyms though I can say a lot of the principles are the same such as posture/structure, keeping the elbows in and not over extending, keeping the front of your triangle on your oponent/not giving up your back etc.

In WC you shift and in BJJ you shrimp/escape the hips

However the applications are different and the center line from an akward position on the ground is really where the center of the structure and ones weight is going so to speak so more irregular lines due to position.

A WC man is used to bong lap or tan bong or the handd siezing the structure on the elbow etc.
A BJJ man is used to the guards(not just closed) mount, knee on the belly and various joint locks like knee bars, kimoras, arm bars, chokes etc......

My senvitivity training has helped me feel pushes etc and turn them into joint manipulations etc along with ones base/ center of gravity so in essence my WC does work on the ground it's just learning the positions and how to use the force just like WC when down there IMO......

[HumbleWCGuy]

Some WCers feel like basic ideas like the immovable elbow and gate theories help them out. Like in WC these principles only carry you so far in grappling.

[viper]

Wing chun doesnt have any ground moves that im aware of. Wing chun I find benefits me on the ground with being able to find the small holes and gaps and my sensitivity helps me be more aware of my training buddies movements and shifts. Ive been doing bjj for a few years off and on and a bit of judo with some friends.

[mjw]

How they say WC is a principle art many of those principles do work on the ground it's just how they are applied.....

[couch]

As far as the traditional WC curriculum - I don't believe that I would be able to extrapolate groundfighting techniques from it.

However...

I do feel that elbow energy, flow, ging and the anti-grabbing/grappling of the system allowed me to adapt quite quickly to the BJJ game.

Best way to see the similar principles is to train in the respective art - not try and invent something again. Learn BJJ, find the similar principles and, like everything else, make it yours.

Best,
CTK

[Wayfaring]

There are some crossover principles. However, if you don't learn the fundamentals of the ground game you're just as likely to do the exact wrong thing at the wrong time as you are to do the right thing applying those principles. Ground fundamentals are very context sensitive.

[Dragonzbane76]

Th
ere are some crossover principles. However, if you don't learn the fundamentals of the ground game you're just as likely to do the exact wrong thing at the wrong time as you are to do the right thing applying those principles. Ground fundamentals are very context sensitive.

couldn't have stated it any better. If you do not have basics of positioning, transitions, defense, etc. what's the use?? you could have all the striking in the world from the ground but if you can't use it whats the point.

[mjw]

Good points, I agree like learning the footwork.....

[LSWCTN1]

the single most comparitive thing i use is the 'frame' in bjj or 'lan' in wck

same thing, same purpose...

huen is also used a lot, especially when your in mount and they try to get you off.

i'm a complete bjj newb though, only started in January :o

[mjw]

the single most comparitive thing i use is the 'frame' in bjj or 'lan' in wck

same thing, same purpose...

huen is also used a lot, especially when your in mount and they try to get you off.

i'm a complete bjj newb though, only started in January :o

Yes as well as siezing the elbow from side control etc. You will see more as you get more involved once not too long ago I was in my instructors mount and though he had downward pressure with the mount as he pushed on my hands he did it to the side on the one arm so I rolled my tan under and hit a quick trap where I tried to lap though there was no way that would have worked to get him off with his base though if in a real combat situation I'm sure I would have been able to pull off a hit or so granted I'm sure he could have poured down the pain being on top and all......

[Knifefighter]

Yes as well as siezing the elbow from side control etc. You will see more as you get more involved once not too long ago I was in my instructors mount and though he had downward pressure with the mount as he pushed on my hands he did it to the side on the one arm so I rolled my tan under and hit a quick trap where I tried to lap though there was no way that would have worked to get him off with his base though if in a real combat situation I'm sure I would have been able to pull off a hit or so granted I'm sure he could have poured down the pain being on top and all......

That post pretty much shows that trying to use WC "principles" on the ground will just get you in a worse predicament.

[taojkd]

How they say WC is a principle art many of those principles do work on the ground it's just how they are applied.....

Or why not just use BJJ principles on the ground and WC principles standing up? Hell, doesn't even need to be BJJ. Try catch wrestling if you can find a good instructor. Why is there this need to "extrapolate" anything on the ground? Why reinvent the wheel?

[mjw]

That post pretty much shows that trying to use WC "principles" on the ground will just get you in a worse predicament.

I was already mounted I'm sure doing so wouldn't have been a bad idea concidering where I was, it was like doing a trap with out structure but the sensitivity, trap and line were all there....

[mjw]

Or why not just use BJJ principles on the ground and WC principles standing up? Hell, doesn't even need to be BJJ. Try catch wrestling if you can find a good instructor. Why is there this need to "extrapolate" anything on the ground? Why reinvent the wheel?

I just find a lot of similarities of the two thats all

[Dragonzbane76]

Or why not just use BJJ principles on the ground and WC principles standing up? Hell, doesn't even need to be BJJ. Try catch wrestling if you can find a good instructor. Why is there this need to "extrapolate" anything on the ground? Why reinvent the wheel?

bingo.....

[Knifefighter]

I was already mounted I'm sure doing so wouldn't have been a bad idea concidering where I was, it was like doing a trap with out structure but the sensitivity, trap and line were all there....

Doing most things related to what you would do standing up would be a mistake when you are mounted. The main strategy is to escape the mount. Trapping is one of the tactics for doing that. However, the trapping is completely different than anything you will ever learn in WC.

[anerlich]

I just find a lot of similarities of the two thats all


You can find similarities between any two things if you want to find them badly enough.

AS a BJJ beginner, seeing what you learn through WC coloured glasses might help in the early stages, but after a while it gets in the way, confuses you, and slows down the learning process.

Better to approach the new art with no preconceived ideas, or, overusing a KF cliche, with an empty cup.