90% of kung fu schools...

[KC Elbows]

This gets thrown around a lot, that they are this that and the other.

The last thread I was in on this topic ended with the fact that 90% of the kung fu people on the thread did not fit the 90% that they were described as.

I think the mma craze has been the best thing to happen to kung fu in ages. Most instructors of my generation don't fit the stereotype. Most, because they are reforming their lines, are becoming more progressive than other styles, are more familiar with other systems of fighting, and more open to training with other stylists. This takes time. Some say 'karate already has had mma champs, why not kung fu?' The simple fact is, many more people do karate, and, once you realize that there is no style 'kung fu', and you divide the Chinese styles into their categories, you have lots of small groups with previous cultures that hampered growth.

One need only talk with a few of the right people on this board to see this is not true of current practitioners in most relevant cases. And, of course, there were lines before mma that had the right idea.

90% of any field are not relevant to the cutting edge of that field, but I suspect that a strong percentage of serious kung fu practitioners in the west now will end up being at that cutting edge or risk their arts dying.

[David Jamieson]

who is best at killing their art but the artist? :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

MMA is Kung fu, is there any system of Kung fu that was not mixed with another?
Doubtful ( outside of stories).
I think the majority of kung fu schools do NOT participate in full contact sparring, much less competition, but that is also correct for the majority of Karate schools too.
Why?
Because the majority of people DON'T want that.
If they did they would get into MT or Boxing or MMA.

Now, some schools do and more seem to be getting into sparring at least and this is good.
But there is still too much catering to "hippies" or "closed-door secret kung fu".

We should take a lesson from the book of Jing-Wu or at least from the book of the creators/innovatiors of the very systems we nutride and get out and make a name for ourselves and BE OUR OWN KUNG FU !!!

*villagers go wild and women rip off their clothes*

[MasterKiller]

http://dailypicdump.com/data/images/2010/05/30/b8ef87.jpg

[MasterKiller]

I think the majority of kung fu schools do NOT participate in full contact sparring, much less competition, but that is also correct for the majority of Karate schools too.
Why?
Because the majority of people DON'T want that.
If they did they would get into MT or Boxing or MMA.


Honestly, the majority of people in MMA don't want to compete, either. That's why you have to have a separate class for the fighters in most schools.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Honestly, the majority of people in MMA don't want to compete, either. That's why you have to have a separate class for the fighters in most schools.

I know, but most like the hard contact training though.
And you're one sick puppy !

[KC Elbows]

But there is still too much catering to "hippies" or "closed-door secret kung fu".


I only see this happening much in the schools of teachers from the previous generation. I don't know of a single guy my age who runs or has any intention to run this sort of class. And the 'closed door' schools are killing themselves, they're completely irrelevant, imo.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I only see this happening much in the schools of teachers from the previous generation. I don't know of a single guy my age who runs or has any intention to run this sort of class. And the 'closed door' schools are killing themselves, they're completely irrelevant, imo.

So what do you see now?
And I agree about those closed door schools, they are irrelevant and so out of touch with he reality of combat nowadays that I feel for their students.

[KC Elbows]

So what do you see now?


A lot of young instructors trying to implement more live training. Some don't have the grasp yet of exactly what their system is, from the past of promoting instructors based on forms proficiency and apps proficiency over more live practices, but they do what they can.

Some are highly systematic about it.

Most are way more open to crossing hands with others and cross training than the previous generation on average.

Most seem to be reviving the concept of 'kung fu club', a non-school meeting that allows for testing of skills against varied people and skillsets.

Many are very familiar with modern training paradigms.

The main gap is now in what exactly makes up their style, but live testing over enough time will clear up most confusion, imo.

Of course you still have your wingnuts, but most schools like that are not doing that well. The smaller kung fu competition out here dried up, which took away a lot from the dreamer schools, and the pressure of being able to apply things live has hit from a more educated consumer base visiting the schools.

Things just aren't the same, and they won't be the same. Any argument built on what most kung fu schools were fifteen years ago is becoming irrelevant.

Me, I'm traditional viking kung fu. Know your kung fu, steal the kung fu of others, kill their teachers, and raise their children as your own. It takes a village.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Me, I'm traditional viking kung fu. Know your kung fu, steal the kung fu of others, kill their teachers, and raise their children as your own. It takes a village.
I love it when you talk like a Khan !!
I am glad to see that more kung fu people are understanding that without live sparring, hard and even full contact fighting, that there will always be a missing piece in theie kung fu puzzle.

[MightyB]

The main gap is now in what exactly makes up their style, but live testing over enough time will clear up most confusion, imo.


This is the Gorilla in the center of the room... what now? What is it? What do you call it when what you're doing now is so vastly different than what you did? How about if you still want it to be "kung fu" but most outsiders say you're doing MMA? How do you keep it "kung fu"? This is the cause of my kung fu neurosis.

[Lucas]

its kungfu cuz i say it is d@mn it.

serious tho, ive started cross training but i still look at what i do as kungfu, because thats what it is to me. im just adding to my current foundation of skill. taking what i learn, working it so it makes sense to me, and finding a place for it with what i already know.

i could never pick up a nother chinese style my entire life, but ill still be doing kungfu till i die.

[KC Elbows]

This is the Gorilla in the center of the room... what now? What is it? What do you call it when what you're doing now is so vastly different than what you did? How about if you still want it to be "kung fu" but most outsiders say you're doing MMA? How do you keep it "kung fu"? This is the cause of my kung fu neurosis.

I've been fortunate, I suppose. A lot of people in my line were previously what I came to look at as taixuquan structuralists, meaning that there were general motions that were applied in a variety of ways, not necessarily the way they occurred in the form.

I did a lot of homework, and found that, nine times out of ten, the way a technique is in the form is directly how it seems to best apply live. In short, this arm motion occurs with this lead leg every time in the form for a reason. There is virtually nothing hidden in the form, and I question how much claiming a technique is hidden in a form is an admission of not understanding that technique.

If there's a version of my form or applications online, you can bet I've studied it closely. If there's a similar move in another style, like a similar throw in judo, you can bet I've studied that, but my application has the details my style favors for the reason it favors those details.

Contact will make it all self evident.

At this point, my teacher picks up applications from me on this specific style(taixuquan). These are all tested often in live situations, and improve over time, but the good ones are the only usable ones, ime.

As for additions, it's your form. People I know in China, with good credentials, see no problem with making it your own thing, as long as you know its uses and make no crazy claims.

To clarify, I'm not saying these things as something you have no clue of. When I read your posts, or Pork Chops, or Lucas, I tend to see people in the same boat I am, recently was, or will be shortly, fairly typical serious practitioners of our era. Each responds to their training issues with their own nuances: some cross train more or less, I went for encyclopedic knowledge of a system as my core, this not being an encyclopedia of whatever every teacher thinks each technique is, though I am fairly well aware of that, but what evidence suggests each technique actually is, informing that with a strong previous background in other arts and referencing high quality manuals of related material to compare. The real gorilla is that, without someone doing that for many styles, they will be lost.

[KC Elbows]

What do you call it when what you're doing now is so vastly different than what you did?

IMO, the previous generation's culture prevented good knowledge of the style in its actual use, so worrying about what you did is less relevant than asking if your understanding of it is deeper than what you were handed, and more comprehensive, and knowing how many moves are still relative unknown quantities. Knowing the bread and butter of the style from live practice will yield better understanding than apps training, which could involve usage errors that apps practice is not well designed to root out.

[goju]

I know, but most like the hard contact training though.
And you're one sick puppy !

i dunno about that while i was at my mma gym most of the "regular" folks didnt spar or once they did the first time the didnt want to again lol

the hard contanct was for the fighters or people who wanted to get into it

[Lokhopkuen]

This gets thrown around a lot, that they are this that and the other.

The last thread I was in on this topic ended with the fact that 90% of the kung fu people on the thread did not fit the 90% that they were described as.

I think the mma craze has been the best thing to happen to kung fu in ages. Most instructors of my generation don't fit the stereotype. Most, because they are reforming their lines, are becoming more progressive than other styles, are more familiar with other systems of fighting, and more open to training with other stylists. This takes time. Some say 'karate already has had mma champs, why not kung fu?' The simple fact is, many more people do karate, and, once you realize that there is no style 'kung fu', and you divide the Chinese styles into their categories, you have lots of small groups with previous cultures that hampered growth.

One need only talk with a few of the right people on this board to see this is not true of current practitioners in most relevant cases. And, of course, there were lines before mma that had the right idea.

90% of any field are not relevant to the cutting edge of that field, but I suspect that a strong percentage of serious kung fu practitioners in the west now will end up being at that cutting edge or risk their arts dying.

30 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 20 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 10 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. All this week in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow.

I'm sorry, you were saying?

LMAO!

[Lokhopkuen]

i dunno about that while i was at my mma gym most of the "regular" folks didnt spar or once they did the first time the didnt want to again lol

the hard contanct was for the fighters or people who wanted to get into it

You do know:cool:

[Lokhopkuen]

I love it when you talk like a Khan !!
I am glad to see that more kung fu people are understanding that without live sparring, hard and even full contact fighting, that there will always be a missing piece in theie kung fu puzzle.

If you practice gung fu without study and experimentation of the application it's just dance with fa-jing. The spirit of Gung Fu practice dictates that we seek the higher standard. Stretch out as far as possible, step strong right and left, stand as low as possible, strike from the heart with passion and reckless abandon, always seek the advantage, be compassionate when you can, practice viciousness when you attack.

[SPJ]

in order for the school to survive in the 21st century

1. wushu forms

2. weapon forms

3. push hand, light contact comp

4. full contact comp

5. research

6. health for senior

--

unfortunately, a school has to cater to all categories of would be students

some like to do it to enter form comp, push hand comp, san shou comp, lei tai comp--

some like to do it if for fun and health

some like to do it as researches in principles, theories, methods--

--

the school that has most students may exert more influence in the circle/communities

---

[SPJ]

do not know much about north america.

in china and taiwan

there are very good organizations for each style

kuo shu clubs in high schools and colleges

there are also departments of cma in colleges and master degree researches, too

each style also formed committee's regionally and nationally.

such as beijing ba gua zhang research committee

and also there are greater number of civilian associations

---

[SPJ]

In short over 90% of schools in china and taiwan

belong to some kind of association or committee

there are some universal programs, too.

----

[Lokhopkuen]

do not know much about north america.

in china and taiwan

there are very good organizations for each style

kuo shu clubs in high schools and colleges

there are also departments of cma in colleges and master degree researches, too

each style also formed committee's regionally and nationally.

such as beijing ba gua zhang research committee

and also there are greater number of civilian associations

---

North America is a martial arts wasteland with a few rare oasis.
People, misunderstand it, fear it or practice it with ill intent.
There is hope in some places;)

[jmd161]

I've been fortunate, I suppose. A lot of people in my line were previously what I came to look at as taixuquan structuralists, meaning that there were general motions that were applied in a variety of ways, not necessarily the way they occurred in the form.

I did a lot of homework, and found that, nine times out of ten, the way a technique is in the form is directly how it seems to best apply live. In short, this arm motion occurs with this lead leg every time in the form for a reason. There is virtually nothing hidden in the form, and I question how much claiming a technique is hidden in a form is an admission of not understanding that technique.

If there's a version of my form or applications online, you can bet I've studied it closely. If there's a similar move in another style, like a similar throw in judo, you can bet I've studied that, but my application has the details my style favors for the reason it favors those details.

Contact will make it all self evident.

At this point, my teacher picks up applications from me on this specific style(taixuquan). These are all tested often in live situations, and improve over time, but the good ones are the only usable ones, ime.

As for additions, it's your form. People I know in China, with good credentials, see no problem with making it your own thing, as long as you know its uses and make no crazy claims.

To clarify, I'm not saying these things as something you have no clue of. When I read your posts, or Pork Chops, or Lucas, I tend to see people in the same boat I am, recently was, or will be shortly, fairly typical serious practitioners of our era. Each responds to their training issues with their own nuances: some cross train more or less, I went for encyclopedic knowledge of a system as my core, this not being an encyclopedia of whatever every teacher thinks each technique is, though I am fairly well aware of that, but what evidence suggests each technique actually is, informing that with a strong previous background in other arts and referencing high quality manuals of related material to compare. The real gorilla is that, without someone doing that for many styles, they will be lost.

I would tend to agree with this "There is virtually nothing hidden in the form" I think most people misunderstand what is meant when they hear "There are hidden techniques in the forms" I think most people try too hard to make their techniques work exactly like they look within the form. The form is a guide it shows a single method of performing a technique in a fluid motion. There are many other ways of achieving this same technique there are many other ways to link a single technique. Then take into account that technique with just a simple flick of the wrist, arm, hand etc.. could be used in an entirely different manner. This is where I think the term "Hidden techniques" comes into play.

I think the problem is we tend to focus so much on the single method within the form that we miss all the other methods of how this technique can be achieved. I think we forget just a bend of the arm or turn of the wrist is another method of using this same technique. I think the problem is that schools cater too much to students and much is lost in this. Instructors don't want to push students too hard for fear of losing them. I also think many instructors have missed the boat themselves and don't understand that a technique in a form is just one single method of using that technique. As my sifu is always stressing to us think, think, think! Don't just look at a technique don't just mimic a technique know where, when, and why you use a technique. I think there is still too much blind sifu worship and following I haven't seen a shift like you speak of I hope it is indeed the case but, I have yet to see a difference.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you practice gung fu without study and experimentation of the application it's just dance with fa-jing. The spirit of Gung Fu practice dictates that we seek the higher standard. Stretch out as far as possible, step strong right and left, stand as low as possible, strike from the heart with passion and reckless abandon, always seek the advantage, be compassionate when you can, practice viciousness when you attack.

I love it when you talk dirty.
:D

[MasterKiller]

30 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 20 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 10 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. All this week in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow.

I'm sorry, you were saying?

LMAO!

Is this the same method you will use with your kids nonprofit schools in KC?

[HumbleWCGuy]

I know, but most like the hard contact training though.
And you're one sick puppy !

I would disagree. That is the lure of BJJ. People don't mind the cardio aspects of it and tussling around. What people don't like is getting hit. There are tons of people who spend years LARPing in whatever martial art you can think of who are all of a sudden born again hardcore as soon as they found a martial art that they could avoid being hit in.

[David Jamieson]

just being a little facetious, but "monkey based" sounds funny. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Guys, I said hard contact TRAINING not sparring, pay attention.

Hard contact training is pad work, bag work, mitt work, etc.
I can include sparring but doesn't have too.
Even people that do boxercise and kickboxercise say that the fun part is the bag and mitt work because they get to hit something.

[David Jamieson]

Guys, I said hard contact TRAINING not sparring, pay attention.

Hard contact training is pad work, bag work, mitt work, etc.
I can include sparring but doesn't have too.
Even people that do boxercise and kickboxercise say that the fun part is the bag and mitt work because they get to hit something.

fire and return drills are great too! it's like a heavy bag that moves around and only presents itself to once in a while forcing your reaction time to come into play as well.

I find that if you just hold the pads up, that's not as effective as fire&return type drilling with them. Yeah it's ok for combos and mobility pairing to do hold the pads up and move. But if you wanna get real productive with these things, you gotta mix it up, stretch your head and "steal" a lot of information from other people in how to train in this way. lol


Full contact sparring is woefully misunderstood by many enthusiasts who in my experiences consistently and constantly turn a learning environment into their ego driven competition environment. It's stupid really quite often and I see that there is much fail there still taht needs to be dealt with.

You MUST recycle your training partners. If you injure them, that is less training for you. young dumb and full of cum doesn't cut it in a good training regimen. That's playground.

just sayin....

*edit* as an aside, it is not easy to find someone who can train with you that knows how to train you and you them. Holding mitts takes clarity, concentration, consideration and some skill in order to have efficacy.

I have experienced guys who can't hold the mitts proper, don't drill me proper with them, provide no challenge and so on. I also have met guys who don't know what to do with hitting on mitts or pads in mobile situations.

It's not as simple as just doing it, it is definitely helpful to have a partner that knows at least at an intermediate level what they are doing and how they are helping and what to watch for in you etc etc.

[KC Elbows]

30 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 20 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 10 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. All this week in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow.

I'm sorry, you were saying?

LMAO!

This is the problem of speaking in generalities. It is not my premise that no schools trained hard, but that the overall culture had certain problems. Having been in a number of schools in China, I know the problems exist there, too, and that there are schools that don't fall into such traps.

I would, however, say that some gear allows more realism in sparring than none, but that's another discussion. I've trained the way you are speaking of as well, but twenty years ago, or ten, the majority of kung fu schools did not train as such. This is not said in judgement of them, but with regret, as I enjoy the diversity of ma styles out there, and would enjoy seeing more people who trained them comprehensively.

[KC Elbows]

I think there is still too much blind sifu worship and following I haven't seen a shift like you speak of I hope it is indeed the case but, I have yet to see a difference.

My statement mostly relates to people who already have the system, people on the cusp of becoming sifus and fairly recent sifus. All ma schools have hero worship among the lower ranks.

The system that supported the old way is dead. Forms champions don't have the same reputation they once had, and people coming up are more aware of the competition out there for students. The smart ones know that lacking the ability to apply will be a problem for them, and they don't want to pass that problem on to their students.

This forum is a good place to get the pulse of the community. People are often away from their sifus and speaking openly, with various levels of being informed, on a number of topics. I think you can name more practitioners on here that fit my description than you might at first realize.

Unless you spend time arguing with Hardwork. Then, it's masons and 9-11.:D

[MightyB]

I would disagree. That is the lure of BJJ. People don't mind the cardio aspects of it and tussling around. What people don't like is getting hit. There are tons of people who spend years LARPing in whatever martial art you can think of who are all of a sudden born again hardcore as soon as they found a martial art that they could avoid being hit in.

There is some truth to this... but my money's on the practitioner who's in a style where they don't get hit and practice full-out like Judo, Sambo, BJJ, and Shuai Jiaou.

[HumbleWCGuy]

There is some truth to this... but my money's on the practitioner who's in a style where they don't get hit and practice full-out like Judo, Sambo, BJJ, and Shuai Jiaou.

A whiney no chin larper is a whiney no chin larper.

[Lokhopkuen]

I love it when you talk dirty.
:D

Not in public, I told you, stop:o

[MasterKiller]

http://i38.tinypic.com/28kuwp.gif

[HumbleWCGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOcVkofa1AU

[MightyB]

A whiney no chin larper is a whiney no chin larper.

:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7KxuDYfpSQ

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmi8EXRy62I&feature=PlayList&p=7EAD940686AEFA60&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=9

Which one do you think is preparing actual fighters?

[MightyB]

A whiney no chin larper is a whiney no chin larper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Cr2FmXEpQ

Doubt that this qualifies as LARPing.

[Brule]

30 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 20 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. 10 years ago in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow. All this week in our gung fu school we practiced drills, ran forms, sparred no pads, wrestled on concret and asphalt, busted lips, sprained joints boiled jow.

I'm sorry, you were saying?

LMAO!

Sorry dude, that's not kung fu training. Where was the broken glass and needles? Were you wrestling with those in the vacinity? and where are the other 5 dudes waiting to kick your head in with their steel toe shoes?

Come back again when your training embodies real life situations.

[HumbleWCGuy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Cr2FmXEpQ

Doubt that this qualifies as LARPing.

The point is that as soon as a lot of those guys catch one on the chin, they are ready to quit.

[HumbleWCGuy]

:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7KxuDYfpSQ

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmi8EXRy62I&feature=PlayList&p=7EAD940686AEFA60&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=9

Which one do you think is preparing actual fighters?

:rolleyes: So you mean to tell me that a guy who larped through WC training for years because of fear of getting hit is now hardcore because he started taking a grappling art that encourages better training?

[SPJ]

all may learn to fight.

all may play fight.

avoiding being hit or thrown and hit and throw the opponent.

that is the general idea of a fight.

learn to take punches and kicks and land safely after being thrown

they are part of the deal.

some may never enter a full contact comp

but all can have fun.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWfLbV6vAec&feature=related

the first lei tai comp in china post 1949.

:)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUTwiX4lB4U&feature=related

around the same time

the full contact comp in Taiwan.

:)

[HumbleWCGuy]

all may learn to fight.

all may play fight.

avoiding being hit or thrown and hit and throw the opponent.

that is the general idea of a fight.

learn to take punches and kicks and land safely after being thrown

they are part of the deal.

some may never enter a full contact comp

but all can have fun.

My comments have nothing to do with the goal of fighting. My comments have to do with running scared from solid fundamental training to avoid having one's head knocked which is an inevitability of training striking properly.

[MightyB]

:rolleyes: So you mean to tell me that a guy who larped through WC training for years because of fear of getting hit is now hardcore because he started taking a grappling art that encourages better training?

Yep. As long as he or she trains with intensity and takes it seriously.

[MightyB]

the key is the statement "because he started taking a grappling art that encourages better training".

[MightyB]

I would disagree. That is the lure of BJJ. People don't mind the cardio aspects of it and tussling around. What people don't like is getting hit. There are tons of people who spend years LARPing in whatever martial art you can think of who are all of a sudden born again hardcore as soon as they found a martial art that they could avoid being hit in.

My guess is that they are responding "hard core" because they found an art that delivers on it's promise - which is finding an art where they could avoid being hit.

Isn't that the goal of all martial arts? Anyway- when they find that they can minimize the opportunity to be struck and be able to respond with a proven methodology that doesn't require faith in something abstract or untestable... yes- they tend to get very enthusiastic. They scream "holy $pit, an art that actually friggin works".

[MightyB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv0cl0QRB6I

[HumbleWCGuy]

My guess is that they are responding "hard core" because they found an art that delivers on it's promise - which is finding an art where they could avoid being hit.

Isn't that the goal of all martial arts? Anyway- when they find that they can minimize the opportunity to be struck and be able to respond with a proven methodology that doesn't require faith in something abstract or untestable... yes- they tend to get very enthusiastic. They scream "holy $pit, an art that actually friggin works".

Pretty much all arts work. The problem with striking arts is that they require courage to truly master. Yip man derived WC and other similar arts have been set up to allow people without courage to receive rank. Since blows to the head are kept to a minimum in grappling, the courage factor is removed. Guys can become good grapplers, but if they don't have the courage to train the strikes, good grapplers is the best that they can become. Good grappling is a key component of good fighting, but there is not a 1:1 correlation between good grappling and good fighting.

[MightyB]

The problem with striking arts is that they require courage to truly master.

Back when I was only doing kung fu, I used to describe it (courage to take a hit) to noobs by making the comparison to walking out into big waves. If you're timid about it and lean back from the waves- they'll knock you on your arse, but- if you're brave and stand firm- you'll smash right through. You have to have the guts to push through. 1 out of 50 would get it.

[MightyB]

The attitude displayed in this first clip is what you need to be a successful TCMA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4OKvc-eOpM&feature=related