Wing Chun sifu wins MMA championship?

[m1k3]

There is this thread going on over at Bullshido

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=97378

where Master Mazza claims to have won an MMA championship in Camden NJ in April.

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/i...page&Itemid=30

The problem is no one can find any information on the tournament. If anyone here knows anything about this please feel free to go over to Bullshido and clear this up.

Thanks.

Mike t.

[Knifefighter]

Phil could probably answer this for you. It might even have been Phil's event, although I don't remember him saying anything about it being a pro event.

I'd also be interested to know what his other pro fights have been, as well as who the other two pro fighters he fought that day were.

Phil?


"On April 28th, 2010 Master Mazza competed in the Extreme Kickboxing Championship held in Camden, New Jersey. The rules were a combination of kickboxing and MMA. Master Mazza won 2 consecutive bouts with the first ending in submission in the 2nd round. The second bout ended in 1 minute and 3 seconds in the first round with a knockout. Master Mazza feels he owes his championship career to the extensive training he received from his teacher, Grandmaster William Cheung. When asked about the fight Grandmaster responded quite confidently “I had no doubt in his ability. I have taught Keith the keys to fighting in the ring, watch the elbow and fight on the blind side.” Master Mazza has announced that this was his last professional fight, retiring undefeated. “I feel like I can finally close this chapter of my life.” Master Mazza’s focus continues to be working on projects with Grandmaster Cheung, training and educating students in the Art of Traditional Wing Chun."

[Vincent Meng]

I meet Master Mazza with my father during May 28-29, NAFMA NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS at Sheraton Hotel & Resorts, Atlantic City, NJ. He was my judge in my first Wing Chun competition. This was the first Wing Chun competition that I know where they have youth divisions. So my father took me there in NJ as we were heading towards RI for a special TKD Olympic training camp any way. I took first in Wing Chun Inter. Forms Division by doing Chum Kiu. Master Mazza was very friendly.

[anerlich]

The Extreme Kickboxing Championship seems to have no web presence whatsoever outside of traditionalwingchum.com and this site. Unusual, since even the entry level shows in my area are up there on Google.

Not wanting to denigrate KM's achievement, but some context of the size of the show, names and records of opponents, etc. would add some credibility for the sceptics and naysayers (give it time, there will be ...)

[Knifefighter]

The Extreme Kickboxing Championship seems to have no web presence whatsoever outside of traditionalwingchum.com and this site. Unusual, since even the entry level shows in my area are up there on Google.

Not wanting to denigrate KM's achievement, but some context of the size of the show, names and records of opponents, etc. would add some credibility for the sceptics and naysayers (give it time, there will be ...)

As far as credibility, it does seem a little suspect when grappling on the site is depicted like this...

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:grappling-article&catid=52&Itemid=110

... and one of the matches was supposedly won by submission.

[Frost]

As far as credibility, it does seem a little suspect when grappling on the site is depicted like this...

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:grappling-article&catid=52&Itemid=110

... and one of the matches was supposedly won by submission.

are you saying you find something wrong with those clips...:eek:

[m1k3]

You might as well not bother with the bullshido thread as it has degenerated in silliness. Of course I have been a willing participant in said silliness.

If we come up with anything, pro or con, I will post it in the bullshido TMA - Kung Fu forum which is moderated.

[m1k3]

are you saying you find something wrong with those clips...:eek:

OMFG, :eek: why do people post sh1t like that? Is this where Victor picked up his catch wrestling skills?:confused:

You know we can't see the true value in this because we are just a bunch of BJJ-nuthuggers?:rolleyes:


:D

[Frost]

OMFG, :eek: why do people post sh1t like that? Is this where Victor picked up his catch wrestling skills?:confused:

You know we can't see the true value in this because we are just a bunch of BJJ-nuthuggers?:rolleyes:


:D


true it takes a special eye to see the value of those techniques....one sadly us BJJ grapplers don't have

[Wayfaring]

As far as credibility, it does seem a little suspect when grappling on the site is depicted like this...

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:grappling-article&catid=52&Itemid=110

... and one of the matches was supposedly won by submission.

Oh the horror :eek:

I'm sure the submission happened just like that mount escape depicted.

First, push on your opponent's elbow, as the elbow is the center of gravity. Next, grab the ankle, as it will ALWAYS be exposed when you push on the elbow - usually in mid-air due to the force you put on the elbow. Next, scramble to your knees and punch your opponent in back of the head while they lay face down immobile with their hand between their legs, because every single live opponent anyone has ever rolled with automactically instinctively goes to the face-down-sprawled-on-stomach-with-hand-between-legs position when anyone ever attempts a mount escape.

I'm glad that sequence was shown twice in the gallery. There were some intricacies of it that I didn't quite pick up on in the first series of photos.

[m1k3]

You bet, like this one:
http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/images/stories/grappling_article/DSC_0042.JPG
Must have something to do with chi because he isn't even bridging.

[Dragonzbane76]

I would like to know how you get from this position to this position without bridging, and just pulling the guy across your body with all his weight down upon you and your only using one hand.????

sequence of pics starting and going
http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/images/stories/grappling_article/DSC_0013.JPG

TO THIS

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/images/stories/grappling_article/DSC_0014.JPG

either the guy in white is letting him do it or his BASE sucks really bad.

[t_niehoff]

And then when he really does hit the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVLczpkVEI


My issue is clearly Cheung doesn't know jack-squat about fighting in the ground, and has absolutely no ground fighting skills. Those photos, his "judo chop" response to a single leg, and the crap he says on his video clips prove that beyond any doubt.

Yet, he TEACHES that nonsense to others. He presents it as this-is-what-you-do from the Grandmaster.

Well, he also teaches stand up, and he teaches this-is-what-you-do in stand up.

Why do people believe his stand up theories and techniques are any better than his ground crap?

[Wayfaring]

And then when he really does hit the ground:


While I'll pass on getting into all the conclusions you're trying to draw here, the one thing that's interesting to me about that story is that I was reading up on another forum where this was being discussed. Sorry but I don't remember where right now.

There was one guy who was a student of Gokor's. He mentioned that EB used to come train with them for a period of time. Maybe 8 months or so. He quit after that. So that may be the source of EB having any ground fundamentals.

[anerlich]

Why do people believe his stand up theories and techniques are any better than his ground crap?

He has DVDs and youtube vids out like Robert Chu and Alan Orr, so he obviously must be legit.

This stuff is right up there with the best BJJ striking like that found in Royce's self defense book of a few years back.

IF I'm not mistaken the guy in white is the aforementioned Extreme Kickboxing grand champ. Keith Mazza.


the sceptics and naysayers (give it time, there will be ...)

Guess I was right about that ...

[duende]

He has DVDs and youtube vids out like Robert Chu and Alan Orr, so he obviously must be legit.

This stuff is right up there with the best BJJ striking like that found in Royce's self defense book of a few years back.

IF I'm not mistaken the guy in white is the aforementioned Extreme Kickboxing grand champ. Keith Mazza.



Guess I was right about that ...

Hahaha... Touché!

[Ultimatewingchun]

First, the move that William Cheung is demonstrating with Keith Mazza is not a cacc wrestling move...

Second, the move can work against someone in mount who throws a straight bomb down at your face (as opposed to a rounded haymaker type of punch)...

Third, you bil on the inside of his punching arm and immediately follow with a chuen sao on the outside of his arm...(and for those of you who are beyond the A,B,C's of wing chun - I shouldn't have to tell you that bil/chuen can be done inside of a heartbeat of time)...

Fourth, the chuen becomes a GRABBING lop...AS YOU BRIDGE...yes, I know there's no bridge being shown in the series of photos - but I was there when William Cheung first started teaching this move...and believe me - there's a bridge...

Fifth, as you simultaneously lop and bridge over your far shoulder...the elbow of his punching arm will be exposed...and your hand that did the original bil sao on the inside now joins in on the lop process - which will affect his balance even more - since you now have a double lop going...

Sixth, because his balance has been compromised, his lower leg is exposed, and you grab it with an underhook kind of move, using the same hand that you just used against his elbow...while bringing your hips back down to the floor...

Seven, you bridge again while pulling his original punching arm and throwing his leg over you as you now sit out...

and his arm is trapped under his body while you begin to take control of his back.

AGAIN, IT CAN ONLY WORK AGAINST A HEAVY DUTY STRAIGHT PUNCH COMING DOWN AT YOU FROM A MAN IN MOUNT/TOP SADDLE.

[Knifefighter]

First, the move that William Cheung is demonstrating with Keith Mazza is not a cacc wrestling move...

Second, the move can work against someone in mount who throws a straight bomb down at your face (as opposed to a rounded haymaker type of punch)...

Third, you bil on the inside of his punching arm and immediately follow with a chuen sao on the outside of his arm...(and for those of you who are beyond the A,B,C's of wing chun - I shouldn't have to tell you that bil/chuen can be done inside of a heartbeat of time)...

Fourth, the chuen becomes a GRABBING lop...AS YOU BRIDGE...yes, I know there's no bridge being shown in the series of photos - but I was there when William Cheung first started teaching this move...and believe me - there's a bridge...

Fifth, as you simultaneously lop and bridge over your far shoulder...the elbow of his punching arm will be exposed...and your hand that did the original bil sao on the inside now joins in on the lop process - which will affect his balance even more...

Sixth, because his balance has been compromised, his lower leg is exposed, and you grab it with an underhook kind of move, using the same hand that you just used against his elbow...while bringing your hips back down to the floor...

Seven, you bridge again while pulling his original punching arm and throwing his leg over you as you now sit out...

and his arm is trapped under his body while you begin to take control of his back.

AGAIN, IT CAN ONLY WORK AGAINST A HEAVY DUTY STRAIGHT PUNCH COMING DOWN AT YOU FROM A MAN IN MOUNT/TOP SADDLE.

Umm.... this is what happens when you start trying to extend your arms when you are mounted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZKrs7OFhcw

[m1k3]

Victor, the guy on top would need to be on drugs for you to pull that off. All he has to do is post with the non-punching arm, sit back and try again. You have to do seven things to make it work, he has to do one to stop it.

[anerlich]

Yeah, sorry Vic, but I see armbar and kimura opportunities for the top guy in both of those.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Of course there's an opportunity for an armbar or a double wristlock...that's why I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY:

a bomb of a straight punch.

If he's not committed to taking you out with that punch, then he has too much time to react and retract - and the bil/chuen/lop is not only then useless - but a possibly dangerous move for the reasons already made plain.

[Knifefighter]

Of course there's an opportunity for an armbar or a double wristlock...that's why I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY:

a bomb of a straight punch.

If he's not committed to taking you out with that punch, then he has too much time to react and retract - and the bil/chuen/lop is not only then useless - but a possibly dangerous move for the reasons already made plain.

LOL @ Victor backpedalling.

The first thing you learn as a newbie in submission grappling is not to extend your arms... pretty much one of the stupidest things you could do.

[Merryprankster]

Of course there's an opportunity for an armbar or a double wristlock...that's why I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY:

a bomb of a straight punch.

If he's not committed to taking you out with that punch, then he has too much time to react and retract - and the bil/chuen/lop is not only then useless - but a possibly dangerous move for the reasons already made plain.

In that case, it's a stupid move to teach. Don't teach things that only work when the person you are dealing with is a retard. Teach things that work on good people. They work on everybody.

[Ultimatewingchun]

No, LOL @ Dale saying that I'm backpedaling...:rolleyes:

Go read my first post on this subject again.

And then relax and go to sleep - you must be tired......zzzzzzzzzz :p

[shawchemical]

And then when he really does hit the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVLczpkVEI


My issue is clearly Cheung doesn't know jack-squat about fighting in the ground, and has absolutely no ground fighting skills. Those photos, his "judo chop" response to a single leg, and the crap he says on his video clips prove that beyond any doubt.

Yet, he TEACHES that nonsense to others. He presents it as this-is-what-you-do from the Grandmaster.

Well, he also teaches stand up, and he teaches this-is-what-you-do in stand up.

Why do people believe his stand up theories and techniques are any better than his ground crap?

Is it really all that surprising given that there are people who still believe that the reason for invading iraq was that there were weapons of mass destruction there??

That there are people who still believe in the fairy tale of the abrahamic god, and all of the other farcical imaginary friends that speak to people that only those chosen ones (read mentally ill) people can hear?

As for teh boztepe fight, if you continue to parade yourself as the great grandmaster, you have to expect that someone will call you out on it. The bull**** excuse that he was not sufficiently senior therefore cheung didn't have to fight him is nonsensical. Thus, anyone who calls themselves a master is probably not. The impact of this should increase exponentially the more greats and grands you add before the name.

These titles are not issued by ones self like bill cheung and leung ting. We should not be fawning at their feet just because they have ego issues.

[goju]

Is it really all that surprising given that there are people who still believe that the reason for invading iraq was that there were weapons of mass destruction there??

That there are people who still believe in the fairy tale of the abrahamic god, and all of the other farcical imaginary friends that speak to people that only those chosen ones (read mentally ill) people can hear?

As for teh boztepe fight, if you continue to parade yourself as the great grandmaster, you have to expect that someone will call you out on it. The bull**** excuse that he was not sufficiently senior therefore cheung didn't have to fight him is nonsensical. Thus, anyone who calls themselves a master is probably not. The impact of this should increase exponentially the more greats and grands you add before the name.

These titles are not issued by ones self like bill cheung and leung ting. We should not be fawning at their feet just because they have ego issues.

so who out of the two of them gave you a wedgie? or was it a tag team effort
:D

[shawchemical]

Their characters are clear from their documented behaviour. As are their business methods, and the products they are selling.

Neither deserves respect.

[Wayfaring]

Of course there's an opportunity for an armbar or a double wristlock...that's why I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY:

a bomb of a straight punch.

If he's not committed to taking you out with that punch, then he has too much time to react and retract - and the bil/chuen/lop is not only then useless - but a possibly dangerous move for the reasons already made plain.

Yeah, the problem with that is people who have trained any grappling system or MMA for 6 months know how to punch from mount, and it's not by throwing unbalanced bombs of straight punches. And also, they are going to have their hips forward and their feet tucked in so all that you see in the sequence is just not going to work. For that matter anyone who's ever done bullriding before could hold mount to where that's not going to work.

It's not just bridging that's missing here. There are so many fundamental things wrong with the basic mechanics. There's no hip movement. That, combined with reaching for bil/cheun/lop WILL get you armbarred. With proper hip movement you don't need to mess with intercepting anything or mess with their arms until they are planted on the ground above your head or if you trap one for a bridge and roll. The contact points are wrong also.

Those are like the only pictures Keith has up on his site for a sequential teaching. I'd tell him to take them down - they're pretty embaressing.

But then again the whole article on the MMA fight with the belts and 1 fight in an event nobody can locate, then retiring undefeated is pretty lame too. I mean, it's just unnecessary. We get it - his age is a little old for modern MMA competitions. So be who you are and get some of the kids you're training in the cage in real local events.

I'm not trying to bag on anyone unnecessarily. Just callling it honestly.

[SoCo KungFu]

And then when he really does hit the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVLczpkVEI


My issue is clearly Cheung doesn't know jack-squat about fighting in the ground, and has absolutely no ground fighting skills. Those photos, his "judo chop" response to a single leg, and the crap he says on his video clips prove that beyond any doubt.

Yet, he TEACHES that nonsense to others. He presents it as this-is-what-you-do from the Grandmaster.

Well, he also teaches stand up, and he teaches this-is-what-you-do in stand up.

Why do people believe his stand up theories and techniques are any better than his ground crap?

I like how the guy narrating kept calling it "Emine's modified ground wing chun technique"......

[SoCo KungFu]

As far as credibility, it does seem a little suspect when grappling on the site is depicted like this...

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:grappling-article&catid=52&Itemid=110

... and one of the matches was supposedly won by submission.

That link made me dumberer. Thank you......

[SoCo KungFu]

The Extreme Kickboxing Championship seems to have no web presence whatsoever outside of traditionalwingchum.com and this site. Unusual, since even the entry level shows in my area are up there on Google.

Not wanting to denigrate KM's achievement, but some context of the size of the show, names and records of opponents, etc. would add some credibility for the sceptics and naysayers (give it time, there will be ...)

Seeing as how most states have rules in stating fighters must wait XXX days for each round fought in a previous fight before fighting again, and supposedly he fought 2 fights in one event and no one can reference the organization online, yeah this is either a total sham or he just fought in some unregulated event with a bunch of other kung fu guys and thus no seriously training fighters (because no serious fighter would be caught dead competing at an event like that and risk losing their license in an unregulated event which has violated the rules)

[goju]

Neither deserves respect.


Bro shelve your inflated ego already neither of them or no one here.. hell no one anywhere could give a fiddlers **** if you respect them or not.:rolleyes:

[LSWCTN1]

to Victor:

have you ever rolled with William Cheung. hisground techniques against yours?

AND also... the technique he is showing is against a round punch. you are saying that it can only work against a heavy straight.

no politics or other bs. just looking for your opinion

[m1k3]

to Victor:

have you ever rolled with William Cheung. hisground techniques against yours?

AND also... the technique he is showing is against a round punch. you are saying that it can only work against a heavy straight.

no politics or other bs. just looking for your opinion

Yeah Victor, have you ever rolled with him? Could you give us your "knowledgeable" opinion of his grappling skills?

[t_niehoff]

Yeah Victor, have you ever rolled with him? Could you give us your "knowledgeable" opinion of his grappling skills?

You are asking Victor, a complete scrub at grappling, to evaluate someone's grappling skills? LOL!

Do you NOT see a pattern here?

Cheung doesn't know squat about fighting on the ground (at the very least -- I think we could extend that to stand-up too), and has never trained with any decent grapplers or ground fighters, yet ACTS like an authority, teaching others how things should be done. And anyone who has spent any significant time training on the ground will immediately recognize him as a scrub.

Then there is Victor, someone who has never trained with any decent grappelrs or ground fighters, yet ACTS like an authority (often arguing with BJJ black belts about how THEY just don't get it), teaching others how things should be done. And anyone who has spent any significant time training on the ground will immediately recognize him as a scrub.

[m1k3]

You are asking Victor, a complete scrub at grappling, to evaluate someone's grappling skills? LOL!

Do you NOT see a pattern here?

Cheung doesn't know squat about fighting on the ground (at the very least -- I think we could extend that to stand-up too), and has never trained with any decent grapplers or ground fighters, yet ACTS like an authority, teaching others how things should be done. And anyone who has spent any significant time training on the ground will immediately recognize him as a scrub.

Then there is Victor, someone who has never trained with any decent grappelrs or ground fighters, yet ACTS like an authority (often arguing with BJJ black belts about how THEY just don't get it), teaching others how things should be done. And anyone who has spent any significant time training on the ground will immediately recognize him as a scrub.

Dude, you need to keep up! :D In the MMA forum I called Victor out on his grappling background. He posted that "Amazing Catch Video" :rolleyes: as an example of good grappling and I called him on his credentials as a grappler. To be far both Frost and I gave our backgrounds. All he did was accuse us of "ad hominem" attacks because the thread was about catch wrestling, not him. I pointed out that he assumed the mantel of someone knowledgeable about grappling and therefore asking his background was valid.

I also pointed out he has used this same argument in this forum to discredit the posts of people he doesn't consider qualified to post on Wing Chun.

There, this thread will not return to its regularly scheduled ranting.

[t_niehoff]

Dude, you need to keep up! :D


Sorry, but it is so difficult to keep up with all the nonsense. :)



In the MMA forum I called Victor out on his grappling background. He posted that "Amazing Catch Video" :rolleyes: as an example of good grappling


Yes, yes, that's standard.



and I called him on his credentials as a grappler. To be far both Frost and I gave our backgrounds. All he did was accuse us of "ad hominem" attacks because the thread was about catch wrestling, not him.


Which only shows that he's too stupid to know what an "ad hominem" attack is and won't make the effort to learn. Another pattern.



I pointed out that he assumed the mantel of someone knowledgeable about grappling and therefore asking his background was valid.


Of course. Questioning someone's qualifications or credentials or experience is not an ad hominem attack but a legitimate inquiry as to what informs their opinion.



I also pointed out he has used this same argument in this forum to discredit the posts of people he doesn't consider qualified to post on Wing Chun.


Yes, I always find it ironic when he uses that with Dale -- he will argue that Dale just doesn't know WCK yet turn around and argue with him about grappling when Dale is a BB and he, Victor, has never trained in grappling!

[YungChun]

Of course. Questioning someone's qualifications or credentials or experience is not an ad hominem attack but a legitimate inquiry as to what informs their opinion.


Not true from a debating standpoint.. I don't need any qualifications to know that the karate chop is a non viable move and is not going to stop a decent grappler, nor do I need any qualifications to know that a RNC is a viable high % technique, etc..

[t_niehoff]

Not true from a debating standpoint.. I don't need any qualifications to know that the karate chop is a non viable move and is not going to stop a decent grappler, nor do I need any qualifications to know that a RNC is a viable high % technique, etc..

Please, try reading what I said and understanding it. OK?

I said: Questioning someone's qualifications or credentials or experience is not an ad hominem attack but a legitimate inquiry as to what informs their opinion.

I did not say that you necessarily NEED certain qualifications or credentials or experience to have valid views. I said "questioning someone's qualifications or credentials or experience is not an ad hominem attack but a legitimate inquiry as to what informs their opinion."

[m1k3]

Not true from a debating standpoint.. I don't need any qualifications to know that the karate chop is a non viable move and is not going to stop a decent grappler, nor do I need any qualifications to know that a RNC is a viable high % technique, etc..

I'm not disagreeing with you but asking someone for their qualifications is not an attack. Someone may be a knowledgeable fan and have valid points to make but they shouldn't dodge the question and state their background when asked. If you are presenting yourself as knowledgeable in a subject you should be willing to explain your qualifications.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We tend to accept the views of people that have experience in something, and rightly so.
Of course context is important, sometimes people have isolated expriences and don't see the other side of the picture very well, if at all.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Dude, you need to keep up! :D In the MMA forum I called Victor out on his grappling background. He posted that "Amazing Catch Video" :rolleyes: as an example of good grappling and I called him on his credentials as a grappler. To be far both Frost and I gave our backgrounds. All he did was accuse us of "ad hominem" attacks because the thread was about catch wrestling, not him. I pointed out that he assumed the mantel of someone knowledgeable about grappling and therefore asking his background was valid.

I also pointed out he has used this same argument in this forum to discredit the posts of people he doesn't consider qualified to post on Wing Chun.

There, this thread will not return to its regularly scheduled ranting.


***SO go back to the thread on the mma forum, m1k3, and point out to me what in that vid sucks...!!! Okay?

I say it's a really good vid, and especially so when you consider what year it was made.

Okay, partner ???

If I'm a complete no-nothing about submission wrestling/grappling - and you're a hot shot - and you've got issues with me saying it's an awesome vid...

then there should be things on that vid you need to speak to. See my point? :rolleyes:

Like I said, that thread/vid is about cacc wrestling...not me.

So tell me what's on the vid that's junk?

Because if you can't (or won't)...then all this is...is you trying to beat your chest.

Get it? :cool:

[m1k3]

OK Victor, I just did.

See ya there. :)

[Phil Redmond]

Phil could probably answer this for you. It might even have been Phil's event, although I don't remember him saying anything about it being a pro event.

I'd also be interested to know what his other pro fights have been, as well as who the other two pro fighters he fought that day were. . . . . . .

Phil?
I'd been away from the school in NJ about 4 months and staying in NYC due to the play rehearsals and our performances so I don't know much about it.

[goju]

go eat a di.ck nancy boy

Don't let my statuesque figure and resemblance to adam ant fool you, I am no nancy boy.:mad:


You are asking Victor, a complete scrub at grappling, to evaluate someone's grappling skills? LOL!

what rank do you hold in a grappling system again? and what grappling comps have you won? oh thats riiiiight



Do you NOT see a pattern here?
Is this sort of like how you and your sifu (both theoretical non fighters mind you)have the pattern of blathering on with long winded gobbledy gook to to explain the simplest things ?

That kind of pattern?:D


Cheung doesn't know squat about fighting on the ground (at the very least -- I think we could extend that to stand-up too), and has never trained with any decent grapplers or ground fighters, yet ACTS like an authority, teaching others how things should be done. And anyone who has spent any significant time training on the ground will immediately recognize him as a scrub.

you do realize you described almost yourself perfectly just now didn't you? :D:p

[anerlich]

Of course. Questioning someone's qualifications or credentials or experience is not an ad hominem attack but a legitimate inquiry as to what informs their opinion.

Context is everything, logic requires no qualifications, and avoidance of ad hominem seems to be a very recent standard you have set yourself.


Cheung doesn't know squat about fighting on the ground (at the very least -- I think we could extend that to stand-up too),

You could say the same about Robert Chu, and the extension to standup cluelessness would have the same logical validity. Remember, Questioning someone's qualifications or credentials or experience is not an ad hominem attack but a legitimate inquiry as to what informs their opinion!

[Phil Redmond]

And then when he really does hit the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVLczpkVEI


My issue is clearly Cheung doesn't know jack-squat about fighting in the ground, and has absolutely no ground fighting skills. Those photos, his "judo chop" response to a single leg, and the crap he says on his video clips prove that beyond any doubt.

Yet, he TEACHES that nonsense to others. He presents it as this-is-what-you-do from the Grandmaster.

Well, he also teaches stand up, and he teaches this-is-what-you-do in stand up.

Why do people believe his stand up theories and techniques are any better than his ground crap?
Terence I would wreck you with the standup techniques that I've learned. We can test it ANYTIME. And I mean that. You talk lots of crap. Back it up. Come see me. I don't have to the money a lawyer makes to travel. I NEVER diss other martial artists because it's just a punk thing to do. So I guess that makes you a punk.:mad:

[Phil Redmond]

I sent you an email outlining my availability. You see one of the things I've learned from fighting full contact is that you don't trash talk your opponent because he has skills also. I do not believe that you have competed full contact with people trying to wreck you. I have and can accept the punishment I will get if I don't defend myself properly. Please reply to my email. In the email I requested no gloves. I'm not worried about getting hit in my face.
All the best.
Phil

[Phil Redmond]

If you decide to do this and beat me you will have respect for my fighting abilities. I can guarantee that. I have very little skills on the ground. I'm a stand-up kinda guy. My contact number is on my website. ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Waste of time and chi Phil.
You should know that by now.

[wtxs]

Terence I would wreck you with the standup techniques that I've learned. We can test it ANYTIME. And I mean that. You talk lots of crap. Back it up. Come see me. I don't have to the money a lawyer makes to travel. I NEVER diss other martial artists because it's just a punk thing to do. So I guess that makes you a punk.:mad:

Greetings Phil. I recalled you had made the same offer to "T" few months back ... but the post was withdrawn. Don't know about you guys, I think it would be interesting IF it does happen. ;):rolleyes::p

[jmd161]

The first thing you learn as a newbie in submission grappling is not to extend your arms... pretty much one of the stupidest things you could do.

Yet it still happens all the time... even to the best grappler's! The only problem I have with people talking about grappling is that they act like grappler's are immune to mistakes...:rolleyes:

[Frost]

Yet it still happens all the time... even to the best grappler's! The only problem I have with people talking about grappling is that they act like grappler's are immune to mistakes...:rolleyes:

nope but at least they know its a mistake unlike the guys in TCMA who actually think its a valid technique :)

[m1k3]

Yet it still happens all the time... even to the best grappler's! The only problem I have with people talking about grappling is that they act like grappler's are immune to mistakes...:rolleyes:

Nope, that's why we tap. A tap says either "well done worthy opponent" or "sh1t!, I shouldn't have done that". In that respect rolling keeps you honest.

[monji112000]

Yet it still happens all the time... even to the best grappler's! The only problem I have with people talking about grappling is that they act like grappler's are immune to mistakes...:rolleyes:

actually I don't often see that mistake directly unless the person is very new to submissions. It comes up when you bait someone with one or two techniques, and then force something out of them. The only people that seem to catch me in beginner techniques are the black belts I roll with and my teacher. Its even more fun when he tells me what hand before the match and how many techniques till he gets it.. and updates me along the way. :D

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110:grappling-article&catid=52&Itemid=110

When you don't have any experience and don't have an Idea what can happen even with a beginner to fail to see how doing a few things wrong and not doing a few things can hurt you allot.

Extending you arms can lead to much more than arm bars, and if your striking also you can really get hurt.

instead think about Shrimping:

from side-control http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irevNkyxYBA

Always thinking about protecting your neck (or your face), never letting the opponent have a chance to get good posture (to punch with much power), and constantly (not quickly but smoothly) attack with escapes shrimping (different methods, bridging ect..)

I am very proud of my Mount escapes, I have proven to myself in competition many many times, and in practice with guys often 100 pounds that I can survive and get to a better position. I have tried training a little with striking from being on the bottom its not fun but I have found the same principles hold.. in reality they are more important.

Victor this is what I mean by having a well rounding grappling game. Just being a top player is nice, but if you can't handle the bottom against people stronger, better, faster, more experienced its all for nothing. JMO. Bridging is great but I see people bridging very strong and great against people who are easily able to keep the top and put them to sleep. (I'm not really that great at holding mount but I'm better than some)

[Knifefighter]

Yet it still happens all the time... even to the best grappler's!

No it doesn't. That's like saying a standup fighter leaves his arm out after striking. It might happen at the very beginning levels, but it is something that is so basic, it's not done unless the person on the bottom is specifically baiting the guy on the top to take the arm so he can counter and escape.

[jmd161]

No it doesn't. That's like saying a standup fighter leaves his arm out after striking. It might happen at the very beginning levels, but it is something that is so basic, it's not done unless the person on the bottom is specifically baiting the guy on the top to take the arm so he can counter and escape.

Ohhh my bad!

I must be mistaken because no one has ever seen it happen..:rolleyes:


My point exactly grapplers never make mistakes LOFL

You guys are priceless!

[anerlich]

Ohhh my bad!

I must be mistaken because no one has ever seen it happen..:rolleyes:

My point exactly grapplers never make mistakes LOFL

You guys are priceless!

I don't know what your agenda is, but you seem to have some axe to grind with grapplers. If all you want to do is get a dig in because you had a nightmare about being armbarred by an eight year old girl one night, you've managed that, now **** off.

I actually think grapplers make minor mistakes all the time in training, and learn to avoid them because they get the immediate feedback of being caught in a sub, swept, taken down, etc. "Learn by losing" is a constant mantra.

Unlike *some* TMAists who think they are invincible because their training methods never expose them to pressure situations where mistakes are made.

Often high level grappling matches come down to one guy making a small mistake which is immediately capitalised on by his opponent with no room left to recover.

To borrow from the curiously absent T's favorite sport analogy, at elite levels of tennis you still end up with "forced" and "unforced" errors. Even the best guys still make both kinds, just much less often and under much more pressure than less skilled players.

That's not what we are talking about with the straight arm in the "grappling" techs above. In those cases the errors aren't a result of incorrect execution or timing, the errors are demonstrated as being ideal technique when they are actually the exact opposite.

Sort of like a boxing coach advocating facing an opponent in the ring with both hands clasped behind your back.

It's one thing to drop your hands because you get tired, quit another to do so because you are misguided into thinking boxing with your hands at your waist is going to work against a skilled resisting opponent.

[jmd161]

I don't know what your agenda is, but you seem to have some axe to grind with grapplers. If all you want to do is get a dig in because you had a nightmare about being armbarred by an eight year old girl one night, you've managed that, now **** off.

I Don't have a problem with grapplers or any other martial artist... I have a problem with ppl who claim they're grapplers and act as if grapplers can do no wrong! I started out as a grappler many many yrs ago... I won't stoop to your level with the insults :rolleyes:


I actually think grapplers make minor mistakes all the time in training, and learn to avoid them because they get the immediate feedback of being caught in a sub, swept, taken down, etc. "Learn by losing" is a constant mantra.

That's the only thing I was pointing out, that everyone including grapplers make mistakes... even the best make mistakes.


It doesn't take a newbie to get caught anyone can get caught... We've all seen experienced people get caught by basic techniques.

[Frost]

I Don't have a problem with grapplers or any other martial artist... I have a problem with ppl who claim they're grapplers and act as if grapplers can do no wrong! I started out as a grappler many many yrs ago... I won't stoop to your level with the insults :rolleyes:



That's the only thing I was pointing out, that everyone including grapplers make mistakes... even the best make mistakes.


It doesn't take a newbie to get caught anyone can get caught... We've all seen experienced people get caught by basic techniques.

actually with all you have said over the years i doubt you have a grappling background lol

And can you post videos of guys stupidly giving up the arm bar as a tactic by locking their arms straight when mounted....please post videos of this since we see it all the time according to you

And thats what knife was on about, those pics showed a technique that was fundermentally wrong and stupid......people make silly mistakes (especially on MMA when punches are raining down) but no one in a comp when mounted will lock their arms out its simply not what you are taught , that is unless you are learning your grappling from a clueless teacher who is to full of pridse to admit he knows feck all about the ground

[m1k3]

I think someone has self esteem issues. We should all give jmd161 a hug. I believe somewhere in his past a grappler was mean to him and made him cry and he has never gotten over the horror of that experience. There, there.




jmd161, a word of advice, read more, post less.


TTFN
:p

[Knifefighter]

I started out as a grappler many many yrs ago... I won't stoop to your level with the insults :rolleyes:

LOL... you were the guy who was going to punch his way from the bottom mount position. If you started out as a grappler, you must have had one cra@ppy teacher or didn't learn very well.

[Frost]

LOL... you were the guy who was going to punch his way from the bottom mount position. If you started out as a grappler, you must have had one cra@ppy teacher or didn't learn very well.

i thought this was him..wasnt he abels big friend?
Man he had some strange ideas

[jmd161]

actually with all you have said over the years i doubt you have a grappling background lol

Ask me if I loose any sleep at night thinking about what you think?:rolleyes:


And can you post videos of guys stupidly giving up the arm bar as a tactic by locking their arms straight when mounted....please post videos of this since we see it all the time according to you

See this is the point where so called "knowledgeable" people do the same dumb tactic by twisting what is actually being discussed into where they want the discussion to go. I never said anything about someone locking their arms out straight as a tactic... what I replied to was his saying every newbie knows not to do that, yet we've all seen even the most experienced grapplers get caught by the most basic of moves. Now whether it's a tactic or just they made a mistake I never touched on. I pointed out that people make mistakes and get caught some times that's it!



And thats what knife was on about, those pics showed a technique that was fundermentally wrong and stupid......people make silly mistakes (especially on MMA when punches are raining down) but no one in a comp when mounted will lock their arms out its simply not what you are taught , that is unless you are learning your grappling from a clueless teacher who is to full of pridse to admit he knows feck all about the ground

Again, you talk about something "I" did not touch on... I never said anything about the pictures or the techniques in the pictures. I only responded to a post saying "The first thing you learn as a newbie in submission grappling is not to extend your arms" That's what I was speaking of. Although, it is one of the first things learned I've seen and I'm sure some of you have seen someone extend their arms for whatever reason and get caught! If you've never seen that happen then you obviously have no real grappling background!

I could have posted a bit more but I never said anything about the pictures or the techniques in them... I just replied about an arm bar and everyone assumed I was referring to the pictures...

[jmd161]

I think someone has self esteem issues. We should all give jmd161 a hug. I believe somewhere in his past a grappler was mean to him and made him cry and he has never gotten over the horror of that experience. There, there.

jmd161, a word of advice, read more, post less.

TTFN
:p

I have no issues standing behind anything I say, unlike some here that only chime in to show their pathetic attempts at being witty/smart ass...



LOL... you were the guy who was going to punch his way from the bottom mount position. If you started out as a grappler, you must have had one cra@ppy teacher or didn't learn very well.

The punching had nothing to do with grappling so, again let's stick with what was being discussed... is that too hard for any of you?

I spoke of being able to strike your sternum from the ground and that's it! You as usual address what you want leaving the topic untouched. I've come to notice it's something you all do very well.



i thought this was him..wasnt he abels big friend?
Man he had some strange ideas

I am friends with Rudy... what does that have to do with this discussion? I'm sure many of you have friends/relatives that others would question that's neither here nor there.

[anerlich]

That's the only thing I was pointing out, that everyone including grapplers make mistakes... even the best make mistakes.


I think we got your point. Thanks for stating the obvious. Now go play with Abel or something.

[anerlich]

Still waiting for T's response to Phil Redmond ... and I'll bet I'm not alone ...

[jmd161]

I think we got your point. Thanks for stating the obvious. Now go play with Abel or something.

Obviously you're mentally challenged... so my words can't hurt you any more than life already has!

Dumb ass!:D

[anerlich]

my words can't hurt you

You got that right.


I won't stoop to your level with the insults


Dumb ass!

Stoop away!

[anerlich]

Anyone hear from T lately?

[jmd161]

You got that right.


Stoop away!

It seems to be the only method of discussion some understand...

Can't have a reasonable discussion with some because they have underlying agendas from the start. :rolleyes:

[anerlich]

This message is hidden because jmd161 is on your ignore list.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Victor this is what I mean by having a well rounding grappling game. Just being a top player is nice, but if you can't handle the bottom against people stronger, better, faster, more experienced its all for nothing. IMO. Bridging is great but I see people bridging very strong and great against people who are easily able to keep the top and put them to sleep. (I'm not really that great at holding mount but I'm better than some)..." (monji)
.................................

***I BELIEVE in having a good bottom game, and have made it my business to learn some guard work. But that will never change my adherence to the basic cacc wrestling approach to being on the bottom:

the first priority is always to get up and out - and not to stay in guard (or bottom scissors) for one second longer than necessary...and if a sub is available as I try to escape - fine.

[anerlich]

If T ain't going to fight Phil, maybe he'd consider a grappling match with jmd161 ... though he needs to watch out for the deadly sternum punch from underneath the mount ...

[jmd161]

This message is hidden because jmd161 is on your ignore list.

This is priceless!!:D


I love it!


He attacks me with all the name calling and insults and when I respond in the same manner he adds me to his ignore list..:p Hahaha you have to see the irony here...

[jmd161]

If T ain't going to fight Phil, maybe he'd consider a grappling match with jmd161 ... though he needs to watch out for the deadly sternum punch from underneath the mount ...

Can't get me off your mind huh?:p


I don't grapple anymore nor do I accept pathetic internet paper tiger chest pounding matches!

I'm sure you and your kind will have a field day with the last part...:rolleyes:

[m1k3]

There is this thread going on over at Bullshido

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=97378

where Master Mazza claims to have won an MMA championship in Camden NJ in April.

http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/i...page&Itemid=30

The problem is no one can find any information on the tournament. If anyone here knows anything about this please feel free to go over to Bullshido and clear this up.

Thanks.

Mike t.

Actually, if we're going to stay on subject does anyone know anything about this tournament?

[jmd161]

Actually, if we're going to stay on subject does anyone know anything about this tournament?

I don't know anything about the tournament but would suspect if it happened? It shouldn't be hard to confirm...

April is not that long ago that there should be any problems getting the results...

I don't know the sifu in question but from looking through known resources It seems the event was either In house/school/lineage,a small local event or never happened...

[Frost]

Ask me if I loose any sleep at night thinking about what you think?:rolleyes:



See this is the point where so called "knowledgeable" people do the same dumb tactic by twisting what is actually being discussed into where they want the discussion to go. I never said anything about someone locking their arms out straight as a tactic... what I replied to was his saying every newbie knows not to do that, yet we've all seen even the most experienced grapplers get caught by the most basic of moves. Now whether it's a tactic or just they made a mistake I never touched on. I pointed out that people make mistakes and get caught some times that's it!




Again, you talk about something "I" did not touch on... I never said anything about the pictures or the techniques in the pictures. I only responded to a post saying "The first thing you learn as a newbie in submission grappling is not to extend your arms" That's what I was speaking of. Although, it is one of the first things learned I've seen and I'm sure some of you have seen someone extend their arms for whatever reason and get caught! If you've never seen that happen then you obviously have no real grappling background!

I could have posted a bit more but I never said anything about the pictures or the techniques in them... I just replied about an arm bar and everyone assumed I was referring to the pictures...

perhaps you should have looked at the photos and read the thread before commentating then, knifefighter was referring to those clips showing something that a newbie in grappling knows is wrong, not to purposely extend your arms when mounted......your comment made it sound like you disagree and see people doing this on purpose in grappling matches

If you did not mean this fine but you should read the whole thread and look at photos before making comments

do people get armed barred in grappling matches yes if that was your point thanks for stating the obvious.... do they purposely extend their arms like in the technique we were discussing...no you have to work for the arm, set it up isolate it etc or catch it as you make them respond to something else.

And out of interest if you know not to extend the arm when mounted why did you...All those years ago offer to let knifefighter start in the mount and then say you were going to punch him and beat him when mounted....just wondering...:)

[jmd161]

perhaps you should have looked at the photos and read the thread before commentating then, knifefighter was referring to those clips showing something that a newbie in grappling knows is wrong, not to purposely extend your arms when mounted......your comment made it sound like you disagree and see people doing this on purpose in grappling matches

Like I stated before I could've been more clear or forthcoming in my initial post... In hindsight I can see how what I said could be easily misunderstood.


If you did not mean this fine but you should read the whole thread and look at photos before making comments

Yes I should have read the entire thread before commenting but, I wasn't commenting on the photos and never mentioned them. I was commenting on the obvious that people get caught by arm bars in matches... I was only stating that it's a technique that even experienced grapplers get caught with now and then even though they know not to extend the arms. It was a simple post saying that people no matter how experienced make mistakes...


do people get armed barred in grappling matches yes if that was your point thanks for stating the obvious.... do they purposely extend their arms like in the technique we were discussing...no you have to work for the arm, set it up isolate it etc or catch it as you make them respond to something else.

Agreed, unless you're extending the arms in hopes of setting up something else...


And out of interest if you know not to extend the arm when mounted why did you...All those years ago offer to let knifefighter start in the mount and then say you were going to punch him and beat him when mounted....just wondering...:)

I've trained the particular technique in question and know I can pull it off. I'm not talking about punching him in the head or overwhelming him with strikes from the ground... what I said was I could punch him in the sternum with a phoenix eye fist (knuckle point strike) he agreed to just sit there and let me punch him in the sternum...

Have you ever been struck in the sternum? If you have there's no way you're going to let someone strike you there... That's all I was pointing out. Will the strike alone make him give up the mount?

No!

But I never said It would.. it's a technique to open up an escape from the mount. The escape would still involve a sweep of some kind but the strike is a set up technique. You don't need much room to strike the sternum from your back.

[Knifefighter]

But I never said It would.. it's a technique to open up an escape from the mount. The escape would still involve a sweep of some kind but the strike is a set up technique. You don't need much room to strike the sternum from your back.

LOL... you still think that b.s. would work?

You understand the sternum in the middle of the chest, right? And you think you can do any damage from the bottom mount while striking someone in the middle of the chest?

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that.

BTW, in your original rantings on the same thing, you were saying that you could knock someone off you with strikes to the sternum.

[Knifefighter]

I've trained the particular technique in question and know I can pull it off. I'm not talking about punching him in the head or overwhelming him with strikes from the ground... what I said was I could punch him in the sternum with a phoenix eye fist (knuckle point strike) he agreed to just sit there and let me punch him in the sternum...

Please post a clip of you doing this.

[shawchemical]

I have no issues standing behind anything I say, unlike some here that only chime in to show their pathetic attempts at being witty/smart ass...




The punching had nothing to do with grappling so, again let's stick with what was being discussed... is that too hard for any of you?

I spoke of being able to strike your sternum from the ground and that's it! You as usual address what you want leaving the topic untouched. I've come to notice it's something you all do very well.




I am friends with Rudy... what does that have to do with this discussion? I'm sure many of you have friends/relatives that others would question that's neither here nor there.

Dont feed the trolls dude, they have enough trouble spelling their names every time they log in that if you leave them to their delusions for a while, they'll probably forget and go rape a poodle or something.

[jmd161]

LOL... you still think that b.s. would work?

How about you show me it "NOT"working?


You understand the sternum in the middle of the chest, right? And you think you can do any damage from the bottom mount while striking someone in the middle of the chest?

I should ask you this same question?

So you're saying the sternum is not exposed while you're in the mount?


You are living in a fantasy world if you think that.

It's my world then... why do you feel the need to intrude?


BTW, in your original rantings on the same thing, you were saying that you could knock someone off you with strikes to the sternum.

Unlike you!

I can admit I was being an ass when I said that... But given your size I probably could knock you off with just the strike.



Please post a clip of you doing this.

I'm not going down this worthless road with you... If I post a clip then the persons background is going to come in to question... then it will be well... they have a legit back ground but they did this wrong yada yada yada...

If you don't agree fine we agree to disagree but don't start this BS you show me this crap because you know it only leads to more BS! I'm never going to convince you unless it's done to you so, lets stop the show me crap!

Ok?

[Wayfaring]

I've trained the particular technique in question and know I can pull it off. I'm not talking about punching him in the head or overwhelming him with strikes from the ground... what I said was I could punch him in the sternum with a phoenix eye fist (knuckle point strike) he agreed to just sit there and let me punch him in the sternum...

Have you ever been struck in the sternum? If you have there's no way you're going to let someone strike you there... That's all I was pointing out. Will the strike alone make him give up the mount?

No!

But I never said It would.. it's a technique to open up an escape from the mount. The escape would still involve a sweep of some kind but the strike is a set up technique. You don't need much room to strike the sternum from your back.

The problem with this approach is that when you move your phoenix eye fist to strike someone in the sternum, you uncover your face. Having done this little 'experiment' a number of times to prove a point, once the bottom person moves the cover off his face, you pop him. Since you have gravity and leverage, the force with which you are getting popped in the face is greater than that which you are concentrating in your 'phoenix eye fist'.

Out of all the times I've had people test this out on me, not one has lasted more than 3 strikes before they gave up.

[Knifefighter]

How about you show me it "NOT"working?
I'd say about 70 years of vale tudo, MMA and challenge matches of guys getting their @sses handed to them when they try to punch their way out of the mount is pretty good proof.


So you're saying the sternum is not exposed while you're in the mount?
Doesn't mean you can get any leverage to do any damage.



I'm not going down this worthless road with you... If I post a clip then the persons background is going to come in to question... then it will be well... they have a legit back ground but they did this wrong yada yada yada...

If it was a somewhat legit thing to do, you'd think there would be some kind of evidence for its effectiveness somewhere in all the archives of previous fights somewhere that you could locate.

[jmd161]

Dont feed the trolls dude, they have enough trouble spelling their names every time they log in that if you leave them to their delusions for a while, they'll probably forget and go rape a poodle or something.


I agree bro!

Thing is, people like Knifefighter who actually has some experience and is knowledgeable are the worst people to have involved in these discussions... Because all they do is spout off this will never work or that will never work and people believe it without ever seeing him explain why or showing it not working.

He's always the first to request a vid of you doing something but, I don't remember seeing him post vid of himself showing why it won't work...

If he does show anything it's something totally different and not him like his arm bar vid. Yes it shows arm bars being applied (again not him in any of the vids) but what it doesn't show is what led to the arm bar and why the person extended their arm?

If you go by his logic those people already knew it's the wrong thing to do, yet they stuck their arms out anyway, why? Explain why they put the arm out knowing like every newbie in grappling that it's the wrong move...

I respect Knifefighter and really just about everyone here because most have experience and knowledge... I just hate when the people with the knowledge like Knifefighter act dumb!

They result to pathetic wise cracks here and there instead of trying to take the discussion in a more beneficial direction. Use your experience to benefit the community instead of just being a a$$...

[jmd161]

I'd say about 70 years of vale tudo, MMA and challenge matches of guys getting their @sses handed to them when they try to punch their way out of the mount is pretty good proof.

I didn't ask for a history lesson I said why don't "YOU" show me it not working with "YOU" being the person in the video.



Doesn't mean you can get any leverage to do any damage.

Doesn't mean I can't either... Do you seriously want to play this childish game?:rolleyes:



If it was a somewhat legit thing to do, you'd think there would be some kind of evidence for its effectiveness somewhere in all the archives of previous fights somewhere that you could locate.

See, this is the kinda crap I hate from people of experience like yourself.... You say dumb **** like this. It's the same when people pointed out techniques back yrs ago when MMA was taking off people would spout "you don't see footage of this or that ever happening"... Then when you produce footage comes "well that's the exception not the norm" crap... then later it's "oh everyone knows that or does that ".:rolleyes:

[anerlich]

Since you have gravity and leverage, the force with which you are getting popped in the face is greater than that which you are concentrating in your 'phoenix eye fist'.

Out of all the times I've had people test this out on me, not one has lasted more than 3 strikes before they gave up.


Yep. The top guy's phoenix eye fist to the bottom guy's eye is going to trump the bottom guy's phoenix eye fist to the sternum every time.


what I said was I could punch him in the sternum with a phoenix eye fist (knuckle point strike) he agreed to just sit there and let me punch him in the sternum

What's the use of a technique that requires the other guy to just sit there and take it? I could beat Roy Jones Jr in boxing and submit Roger Gracie with a flying omoplata if that's regarded as a valid scenario.


Dont feed the trolls dude, they have enough trouble spelling their names every time they log in that if you leave them to their delusions for a while, they'll probably forget and go rape a poodle or something.

I think we know who's trolling here. And your inference of bestiality sounds like you're trying to do the same thing yourself.

[Knifefighter]

If you go by his logic those people already knew it's the wrong thing to do, yet they stuck their arms out anyway, why? Explain why they put the arm out knowing like every newbie in grappling that it's the wrong move...
Why do people who know what they are doing put their arms up?
Either:
- They are baiting the top guy to go for the arm lock so they can set up the counter;
or
- The top guy forced the issue by setting them up.

Nobody who knows what they are doing begins by straightening the arms out to get out of the mount.



They result to pathetic wise cracks here and there instead of trying to take the discussion in a more beneficial direction. Use your experience to benefit the community instead of just being a a$$...

It's hard to have a productive discussion when someone who, by his own admission, has very little experience with grappling/groundfighting, yet claims to be able to do something that I know from 30 years experience is a lame-a$$ed way to try to do something and something I've had scores of guys try to do in the past.

[Knifefighter]

I didn't ask for a history lesson I said why don't "YOU" show me it not working with "YOU" being the person in the video.

Well, these days aren't like the old days when you would have every clueless kung fu guy and his brother come in and try to to dumb@ss cr@p like that. But next time we get one of those guys in, I'll record a clip for you.

Or do you simply want me to post a clip of some random dude trying to punch me in the chest from the bottom mount?

[Knifefighter]

Doesn't mean I can't either... Do you seriously want to play this childish game?:rolleyes:

Of course it does. That's the whole idea behind the mount. It takes away the opponent's leverage. That's why people work to get it. Otherwise, there would be no reason to be there.

You can't not know that, so I've got to think you must be trolling.

[Knifefighter]

BTW, if you are going to strike someplace that does damage, the sternum is not exactly one of the prime candidates for places you want to strike.

But, since you are trolling, you will probably pretend not to know that either.

[jmd161]

The problem with this approach is that when you move your phoenix eye fist to strike someone in the sternum, you uncover your face. Having done this little 'experiment' a number of times to prove a point, once the bottom person moves the cover off his face, you pop him. Since you have gravity and leverage, the force with which you are getting popped in the face is greater than that which you are concentrating in your 'phoenix eye fist'.

I'm not denying that at all but, Knifefighter said he would sit in mount and "let me strike him in the sternum" there's a difference... Also, like I said the strike is a set up technique... just like a experienced grappler would set up an escape a experienced striker would set up his escape as well....


Out of all the times I've had people test this out on me, not one has lasted more than 3 strikes before they gave up.

I admit to being an ass when saying I'd knock Knifefighter off with just the strike.. I was playing on the overwhelming size advantage I have over him. Fact is, I doubt even with all his experience that Knifefighter could hold the mount on me for any period of time. I base this off my previous grappling experience and the size difference. I don't profess to be a great grappler or a BJJ or JJJ black belt either but I do have adequate IMO grappling experience...

I went into striking after I had reached IMO a decent enough amount of experience in grappling. People always expect someone of my size to grapple so they tried to use speed and stay away and strike. I've always been a freak of nature with size and speed and a bit hard headed so i always wanted to beat the small guys at their game so I worked relentlessly on my striking.

Again, Knifefighter said he would let me strike him in the sternum did you do this in you test?

[jmd161]

Yep. The top guy's phoenix eye fist to the bottom guy's eye is going to trump the bottom guy's phoenix eye fist to the sternum every time.

Agreed!

But that's not what we're discussing here is it?



What's the use of a technique that requires the other guy to just sit there and take it? I could beat Roy Jones Jr in boxing and submit Roger Gracie with a flying omoplata if that's regarded as a valid scenario.

Seeing that you weren't apart of that discussion you miss the point that it was Knifefighter who made the dumb remark that he would sit there and let me strike him in the sternum... Now whether he meant that or was being an a$$ you'd have to ask him.


Aren't I supposed to be on your "IGNORE" list?:confused:

[Knifefighter]

I'm not denying that at all but, Knifefighter said he would sit in mount and "let me strike him in the sternum" there's a difference... Also, like I said the strike is a set up technique... just like a experienced grappler would set up an escape a experienced striker would set up his escape as well....
I believe it was two strikes.


Also, like I said the strike is a set up technique... just like a experienced grappler would set up an escape a experienced striker would set up his escape as well....
Why would you do something stupid like hitting someone in the chest to set up mount counters?

And how exactly can the bottom guy here pull off any kind of halfway decent strike to the chest while the top guy maintains mount?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNRNVvdbL00&feature=related


I admit to being an ass when saying I'd knock Knifefighter off with just the strike.. I was playing on the overwhelming size advantage I have over him. Fact is, I doubt even with all his experience that Knifefighter could hold the mount on me for any period of time.
Unless you are over 300lbs, or so, the chances are you I'm going anywhere once I get mount.


I went into striking after I had reached IMO a decent enough amount of experience in grappling.
OK, I'm game. What was your grappling experience? When and where did you train?

[Knifefighter]

Agreed!

But that's not what we're discussing here is it?

Actually, I believe it is. Based on waiver I wrote up, you were going to strike twice and I was going to do anything to maintain the mount. You had said you would injure me enough that I could not continue and that was written in as part of the waiver.

[jmd161]

Why do people who know what they are doing put their arms up?
Either:
- They are baiting the top guy to go for the arm lock so they can set up the counter;
or
- The top guy forced the issue by setting them up.

Nobody who knows what they are doing begins by straightening the arms out to get out of the mount.

Much better use of your experience!





It's hard to have a productive discussion when someone who, by his own admission, has very little experience with grappling/groundfighting, yet claims to be able to do something that I know from 30 years experience is a lame-a$$ed way to try to do something and something I've had scores of guys try to do in the past.

You don't know my level of grappling experience my own admission of my experience could be in comparison to a Royce Gracie or Gene Labell... I don't have 30 yrs of just grappling experience but I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling. It didn't take 30 yrs of grappling for me to know that those techniques would work... The fact that it took you 30 yrs to come to the conclusion doesn't help your argument.:confused:




Well, these days aren't like the old days when you would have every clueless kung fu guy and his brother come in and try to to dumb@ss cr@p like that. But next time we get one of those guys in, I'll record a clip for you.

Or do you simply want me to post a clip of some random dude trying to punch me in the chest from the bottom mount?

Funny how you knowingly leave out the part that "YOU" said you would sit in the mount and let me strike you! Don't try and change the direction of this because you said something dumb!



Of course it does. That's the whole idea behind the mount. It takes away the opponent's leverage. That's why people work to get it. Otherwise, there would be no reason to be there.

You can't not know that, so I've got to think you must be trolling.

Strikes to certain body parts don't require a lot of power or leverage to be painful... I can place my thumb in the base of your skull on the brain stem and cause you pain doesn't take leverage or much pressure to do so...

It's like the eye gouge argument everyone says it's not a fight stopper yet everytime someone catches an unintentional finger to the eye they drop like a sack of rocks into fetal position...



BTW, if you are going to strike someplace that does damage, the sternum is not exactly one of the prime candidates for places you want to strike.

But, since you are trolling, you will probably pretend not to know that either.

I agree there are other places but, we were talking in the context of a friendly match not in the context of anything goes or in me trying to intentionally hurt you..

[jmd161]

Actually, I believe it is. Based on waiver I wrote up, you were going to strike twice and I was going to do anything to maintain the mount. You had said you would injure me enough that I could not continue and that was written in as part of the waiver.


You never sent me this wavier either...


That's neither here nor there now because I don't work for the airlines anymore and can't travel for free. In either case I don't except these foolish matches anymore anyway...

If you're ever in Miami or South Florida and would like to meet to roll or workout I'm cool, If I'm in your area I have no problem contacting you. I have contacted others on this forum when I've been in there cities... I'm not afraid to roll or workout with anyone but matches have proved to be distasteful! People get to wrapped up in hype and chest pounding and things get out of hand.

[Knifefighter]

Funny how you knowingly leave out the part that "YOU" said you would sit in the mount and let me strike you! Don't try and change the direction of this because you said something dumb!
Actually, I believe it was you who said it would only take one or two strikes to do the damage you were claiming.



Strikes to certain body parts don't require a lot of power or leverage to be painful... I can place my thumb in the base of your skull on the brain stem and cause you pain doesn't take leverage or much pressure to do so...
Oh, god, not the b.s. pressure point cr@p again. I guess you missed the segment when the kung fu guys went to the BJJ school with the TV crew and then claimed the BJJ guys couldn't be "pressure pointed" because they were putting their tongues on the roof of their mouths.



I agree there are other places but, we were talking in the context of a friendly match not in the context of anything goes or in me trying to intentionally hurt you..

Actually, that's what you WERE claiming.


I don't have 30 yrs of just grappling experience but I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling.

Really? Please point them out to me because I must have missed them. What are these things that were the exception that are now the rule?

[Knifefighter]

If you're ever in Miami or South Florida and would like to meet to roll or workout I'm cool, If I'm in your area I have no problem contacting you. I have contacted others on this forum when I've been in there cities... I'm not afraid to roll or workout with anyone but matches have proved to be distasteful! People get to wrapped up in hype and chest pounding and things get out of hand.

LOL @ not accepting foolish matches. It doesn't have to be a "match". Simply walk into a BJJ school and tell them you have a new tech for escaping the mount. They would be happy to let you try it while you record the clip. Pretty much any purple belt or above is going to let you punch him in the chest if it teaches him a new way of escaping the mount.

[jmd161]

LOL @ not accepting foolish matches. It doesn't have to be a "match". Simply walk into a BJJ school and tell them you have a new tech for escaping the mount. They would be happy to let you try it while you record the clip. Pretty much any purple belt or above is going to let you punch him in the chest if it teaches him a new way of escaping the mount.

You know this game with the posting multiple replies hoping that the other person misses one is old...

I've rolled with blue, purple, brown, and black belts... I have respect for some and not for others... I said before you do this same crap every time. Next comes the who was the BJJ people then comes well something must have gone wrong yada yada yada...

I don't have time nor patience for this childish game you play... I rather show it against "YOU" that erases all doubt! So like I stated before if you're ever here or i'm in your city we can meet and roll otherwise I have no desire to play tag with you on the internet...

[Knifefighter]

I've rolled with blue, purple, brown, and black belts... I have respect for some and not for others... I said before you do this same crap every time. Next comes the who was the BJJ people then comes well something must have gone wrong yada yada yada....
Then you should have no problem recording your next session with these BJJ guys as you punch them in the chest to get them off of you.


BTW, what, exactly, are these mainstream grappling techniques that weren't supposed to work int the past?

[jmd161]

Pretty much any purple belt or above is going to let you punch him in the chest if it teaches him a new way of escaping the mount.

You would think so huh?


No what it did prove was some of you guys are the same a$$ holes in person as you appear on the internet!

My younger training brother went into the Gracie school here just to roll and test what he's been training with us as his friend trains at the Gracie school. They put him up against two guys much bigger and stronger than him and both BJJ BB's...

After holding his own against the first guy and dispatching of him he was placed against the other... The other like the first realized he stood no chance of striking with my training brother and tried to take him down... my bro avoided the take down and caught the guy in a guillotine... Upon letting the guy go and get up the guy dbl slaps his palms together over my training brothers ears rupturing one of his ear drums.:mad:

That's the sportsmanship he was shown... I'd have gone to prison if it was me because I would have shot the punk!

I offered to go back with my training bro... but him being an Assistant District Attorney he was able to convince me against it.

It's funny that everytime my training bro got the guys in helpless positions their so called instructor would encourage my training bro to hurt or injure them... Not the kinda instructor I would like to have.

[jmd161]

Then you should have no problem recording your next session with these BJJ guys as you punch them in the chest to get them off of you.

The next time I roll I'll be sure to film it. I can"t say when that will be because I don't roll as I did when I was in NYC with the Sambo,BJJ, and Shuai Jiao crowd.



BTW, what, exactly, are these mainstream grappling techniques that weren't supposed to work int the past?

I said techniques!

I did not say grappling techniques... let's not start the diverting of the discussion crap again!

This is going back to the early yrs of the UFC and GNP... I and others brought it up on this and other forums about CMA style sidekicks and hammer strikes and were shot down in usual fashion as you guys do. Then when it was pointed out that ppl were using these techniques effectively we were met with "it's the exception no the rule" crap! The hammer fist strike has become a staple in the GNP. And the CMA style side kick while not used as much in the last few yrs is still used as a stop kick to the body usually after a missed Muay Thai style head kick.

[jmd161]

Then you should have no problem recording your next session with these BJJ guys as you punch them in the chest to get them off of you.



Same goes for you, you should have no problems posting vid of you against an accomplished striker, should you?

[Knifefighter]

I said techniques!

I did not say grappling techniques... let's not start the diverting of the discussion crap again!

So are you trolling again or simply stupid and can't keep track of what you posted?

"I don't have 30 yrs of just grappling experience but I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling"

[Knifefighter]

My younger training brother went into the Gracie school here just to roll and test what he's been training with us as his friend trains at the Gracie school. They put him up against two guys much bigger and stronger than him and both BJJ BB's...

After holding his own against the first guy and dispatching of him he was placed against the other... The other like the first realized he stood no chance of striking with my training brother and tried to take him down... my bro avoided the take down and caught the guy in a guillotine... Upon letting the guy go and get up the guy dbl slaps his palms together over my training brothers ears rupturing one of his ear drums.:mad:

He went to a Gracie school to roll, but did standup striking with them?

Somebody needs to do a little more research before coming up with their lies in the future.

[Knifefighter]

It's funny that everytime my training bro got the guys in helpless positions their so called instructor would encourage my training bro to hurt or injure them... Not the kinda instructor I would like to have.

The instructor of the students who are paying the instructor encouraged some strange guy who walked in to do NHB challenge matches to hurt his own paying students?

Like I said, someone needs to work on doing better with their lies.

[Knifefighter]

Same goes for you, you should have no problems posting vid of you against an accomplished striker, should you?

Not sure what you are asking. You want me to go find an accomplished standup fighter who is dumb enough to strike me in the chest from the bottom mount position?

[shawchemical]

So are you trolling again or simply stupid and can't keep track of what you posted?

"I don't have 30 yrs of just grappling experience but I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling"

Coming from you that's fkn hilarious.

[Knifefighter]

[shawchemical] is on your [clueless, dumb@ss] list. These posts can not be viewed.

[shawchemical]

[shawchemical] is on your [clueless, dumb@ss] list. These posts can not be viewed.

LAWLZ.

Fail troll is fail.

head back in the sand nancy boy, head back in the sand.

[Knifefighter]

[shawchemical] is on your [clueless, dumb@ss beoatch] list. Posts from clueless, dumb@ss beoatches can not be viewed.

[Wayfaring]

What's the use of a technique that requires the other guy to just sit there and take it? I could beat Roy Jones Jr in boxing and submit Roger Gracie with a flying omoplata if that's regarded as a valid scenario.


Video or it didn't happen. ;)

[Wayfaring]

My younger training brother went into the Gracie school here just to roll and test what he's been training with us as his friend trains at the Gracie school. They put him up against two guys much bigger and stronger than him and both BJJ BB's...

After holding his own against the first guy and dispatching of him he was placed against the other... The other like the first realized he stood no chance of striking with my training brother and tried to take him down... my bro avoided the take down and caught the guy in a guillotine... Upon letting the guy go and get up the guy dbl slaps his palms together over my training brothers ears rupturing one of his ear drums.:mad:


Video or it didn't happen.

Actually if you had a video of this story, and put it up on YouTube, and labeled it "Gracie Challenge" you would be an overnight sensation.

Now, sadly, not so much.

[SAAMAG]

I call bull**** on that little story as well. You're not getting a guillotine on a BJJ black belt after sidestepping a takedown. Sorry.

Anyone that's ever trained in a BJJ school for even a week will know that story's bull****.

[shawchemical]

[shawchemical] is on your [clueless, dumb@ss beoatch] list. Posts from clueless, dumb@ss beoatches can not be viewed.

Lol,

You've got nothing you pathetic keyboard warrior.

[jmd161]

I call bull**** on that little story as well. You're not getting a guillotine on a BJJ black belt after sidestepping a takedown. Sorry.

Anyone that's ever trained in a BJJ school for even a week will know that story's bull****.

Ha ha a little boy wants to play with the big dawgs! Did I say he side stepped and got guillotine?

Hmm let's check the post and see...


The other like the first realized he stood no chance of striking with my training brother and tried to take him down... my bro avoided the take down and caught the guy in a guillotine

See why kids are not included in grown up conversations?


They always say something stupid!

[jmd161]

So are you trolling again or simply stupid and can't keep track of what you posted?

"I don't have 30 yrs of just grappling experience but I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling"

Ok where did I say it was a grappling technique?

Duh! The post clearly says I've seen "stuff" doesn't say I've seen grappling techniques It says I've seen "stuff" go from being non existent to it's the exception not the norm in grappling.

Is not the downward hammer strike a staple in ground and pound?:rolleyes:




He went to a Gracie school to roll, but did standup striking with them?

Somebody needs to do a little more research before coming up with their lies in the future.

See everyone this is what I was talking about earlier... You see how he intentionally tries to divert the discussion?

Here's what I said...


My younger training brother went into the Gracie school here just to roll and test what he's been training with us as his friend trains at the Gracie school.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you a few post back say it should be easy to go into a local BJJ school and test techniques with BJJ purple belts and the like?


Simply walk into a BJJ school and tell them you have a new tech for escaping the mount. They would be happy to let you try it while you record the clip. Pretty much any purple belt or above is going to let you punch him in the chest if it teaches him a new way of escaping the mount.

Now that's what you posted a few post back but, now that I revealed a story doing just that but, without the clip it's impossible?

So It's not as easy as you say to go and find grapplers willing to work with you?:confused:




The instructor of the students who are paying the instructor encouraged some strange guy who walked in to do NHB challenge matches to hurt his own paying students?

Like I said, someone needs to work on doing better with their lies.

Shows how much of an a$$ hole some people really are! The stupid thing is that one of the two actually considered letting my bro punch him in the b@lls to show he could withstand the pain.:rolleyes:

Sounds like something from Karate Kid and Cobra Kai:D



Not sure what you are asking. You want me to go find an accomplished standup fighter who is dumb enough to strike me in the chest from the bottom mount position?

Why is that so hard?

You're asking me to do the same thing with a grappler...

[LSWCTN1]

My younger training brother went into the Gracie school here just to roll and test what he's been training with us as his friend trains at the Gracie school. They put him up against two guys much bigger and stronger than him and both BJJ BB's...

no he didnt...

if he would have done that in our school he would have been put with a white belt/maybe a blue.

the others would only play if he was destroying his first opponents

UNLESS

he came in talking sh!t. and i guess you wouldnt train with anyone like this...


After holding his own against the first guy and dispatching of him he was placed against the other...

did he hold his own, or did he dispatch of him?



The other like the first realized he stood no chance of striking with my training brother and tried to take him down...

he went to the school to roll and got in a striking match...


my bro avoided the take down and caught the guy in a guillotine... Upon letting the guy go and get up the guy dbl slaps his palms together over my training brothers ears rupturing one of his ear drums.:mad:

that is assault, and also dojo-storm worthy :p


That's the sportsmanship he was shown... I'd have gone to prison if it was me because I would have shot the punk!

or just punched him in the sternum. whilst he mounted you. when you cant move, so its just an arm punch


I offered to go back with my training bro... but him being an Assistant District Attorney he was able to convince me against it.

ooooohhh! you did want to dojo-storm... if he was indeed was an Assistant District Attorney he would already have him on an assault charge, no?


It's funny that everytime my training bro got the guys in helpless positions their so called instructor would encourage my training bro to hurt or injure them... Not the kinda instructor I would like to have.

i can relate to that... every instructor obviously wants his student base, and therefore income, to be depleted....

sorry dude but this is just trolling.

Dale, and even T, couldnt posibly ruin a forum as much as someone like you. it really f*cks me off. please grow up. we coe on here to share, not bs.

[anerlich]

Good trolling is either believable or entertaining, and jmd161 loses completely on both counts.

0.1 out of 10, and I'm probably being too lenient.

If his imaginary friend is an ADA, then the legal fate of his district is in the hands of fools who have friends even stupider than they.


I'd have gone to prison if it was me

For you, a sheltered workshop would be more appropriate.

[Frost]

no he didnt...

if he would have done that in our school he would have been put with a white belt/maybe a blue.

the others would only play if he was destroying his first opponents

UNLESS

he came in talking sh!t. and i guess you wouldnt train with anyone like this...



did he hold his own, or did he dispatch of him?




he went to the school to roll and got in a striking match...



that is assault, and also dojo-storm worthy :p



or just punched him in the sternum. whilst he mounted you. when you cant move, so its just an arm punch



ooooohhh! you did want to dojo-storm... if he was indeed was an Assistant District Attorney he would already have him on an assault charge, no?



i can relate to that... every instructor obviously wants his student base, and therefore income, to be depleted....

sorry dude but this is just trolling.

Dale, and even T, couldnt posibly ruin a forum as much as someone like you. it really f*cks me off. please grow up. we coe on here to share, not bs.

thanks for taking the time to write this, saves me from having to do it.

This guys story is so full of holes its not even funny

And as for having extensive grappling experience i have a hard time thinking anyone with any grappling knowledge at all would say the stuff he is saying

[LSWCTN1]

thanks for taking the time to write this, saves me from having to do it.

This guys story is so full of holes its not even funny

And as for having extensive grappling experience i have a hard time thinking anyone with any grappling knowledge at all would say the stuff he is saying

the worst part was i hyad to do it twice as i accidently closed my browser?!?!

but i was that incensed i had to!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lets make this perfectly clear, if you are MOUNTED - guy on top of you, on your chest/stomach or even riding low ( which most know better than to do)- you are NOT in a position to strike, it is not a guard, you have zero control of the opponent, or as close to zero as possible.
IF you had him in your guard, then striking is an option, from UNDER someone's mount, what you MUST do is:
Protect and do NOT panic.
Get him low on your hips and bridge or buckle or whatever you wanna call it, off of you, break his base and make him stop PUNCHING YOU IN THE FACE OVER AND OVER, because that is what he is doing.
You do NOT extend your arms.
You do NOT try to strike your way out.
IF you can't get him down on your hips to bridge him, get your arm around his neck and bring him down to you and with your other hand, try to control his strong arm or protect yourself, from there try to "snake/shrimp" yourself up so that your hips as as close to his base as possible and then try to buckle him off.
You may not be able to do it the first or second or third time, but you may get the room to sneak a leg in and at least compromise his base.
Striking while mounted is weak, you have no body and HE has all the weight coming down on YOU, he can drop elbows on your face all day long if he wants to.

[Knifefighter]

Ok where did I say it was a grappling technique?

Duh! The post clearly says I've seen "stuff" doesn't say I've seen grappling techniques It says I've seen "stuff" go from being non existent to it's the exception not the norm in grappling.

No, this is what you said: "I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling." Maybe you should go back and read what you have posted.

"Become the norm" generally means it happens all the time.
"In grappling" generally excludes striking.


Is not the downward hammer strike a staple in ground and pound?:rolleyes:
G&P is not generally consider grappling.


Now correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you a few post back say it should be easy to go into a local BJJ school and test techniques with BJJ purple belts and the like?
It is... and when you do that you either roll (which would be strictly grappling) or you do a challenge (which would include striking). If he went in to roll, he wouldn't have been doing striking with them. If he went in to do a challenge, the instructor wouldn't have been encouraging him to hurt his own paying students.



Shows how much of an a$$ hole some people really are! The stupid thing is that one of the two actually considered letting my bro punch him in the b@lls to show he could withstand the pain.:rolleyes:

Sounds like something from Karate Kid and Cobra Kai:D

Your buddy just beat the guy and then the guy says, "OK, well, then, hit me in the balls now that you have beaten me in standup?" Sounds like something made up to me.

[jmd161]

no he didnt...

if he would have done that in our school he would have been put with a white belt/maybe a blue.

the others would only play if he was destroying his first opponents

UNLESS

he came in talking sh!t. and i guess you wouldnt train with anyone like this...



did he hold his own, or did he dispatch of him?


What does your school in the UK have to do with a school here in the U.S?:confused:

Should I really respond to the rest of this post or should I stop now since you already look like a dumb a$$ for saying that?:rolleyes:



he went to the school to roll and got in a striking match...

It seems like others here you can't read and choose to divert discussion as well...

I've said more than once he went to roll "AND" test what he's learned in training with us. But in your attempt to divert the discussion like the others you intentionally leave the second part out...:rolleyes:




that is assault, and also dojo-storm worthy :p

This is the only thing we agree on...





ooooohhh! you did want to dojo-storm... if he was indeed was an Assistant District Attorney he would already have him on an assault charge, no?

I guess being in the UK makes you knowledgeable about all things in the U.S. huh?

I guess you know Florida law better than an ADA huh?




i can relate to that... every instructor obviously wants his student base, and therefore income, to be depleted....

sorry dude but this is just trolling.

Dale, and even T, couldnt posibly ruin a forum as much as someone like you. it really f*cks me off. please grow up. we coe on here to share, not bs.

The part you guys don't understand is... your trash talking doesn't make what happened any less true! It doesn't substantiate nor does it disprove it because a few a$$ holes on the net doesn't believe it...

[Knifefighter]

I've said more than once he went to roll "AND" test what he's learned in training with us. But in your attempt to divert the discussion like the others you intentionally leave the second part out...:rolleyes:
In that case, it would have been a challenge match and the instructor sure wouldn't be helping him out and telling him to hurt his students. As a matter of fact, more than likely, he would have fought the instructor the second time instead of the student.



I guess being in the UK makes you knowledgeable about all things in the U.S. huh?
What he knows in how things work in a BJJ school pretty much anywhere. This pretty much shows that you've never set foot in a BJJ school.


I guess you know Florida law better than an ADA huh?
Let's get this straight. The guy just got his eardrum ruptured because the guy slammed him after they were done and after he had kicked the guy's a$$. Yet, he neither filed an assault charge nor went back with a video cam to record himself kicking their a$$es again.

Hmmm... more fishiness. Not really what any normal person would do.



The part you guys don't understand is... your trash talking doesn't make what happened any less true! It doesn't substantiate nor does it disprove it because a few a$$ holes on the net doesn't believe it...

What makes is less true (actually completely untrue) is the fact that you (or your buddy) made the whole thing up.

[Dragonzbane76]

sounds like a made up story to me. huh...to many actions that do not make sense.

[m1k3]

I believe him. Guy wants to test his skills goes into a BJJ gym and beats several blackbelts. Was it just Wing Chun he was using or did he throw some catch wrestling in with it?

[Knifefighter]

I believe him. Guy wants to test his skills goes into a BJJ gym and beats several blackbelts. Was it just Wing Chun he was using or did he throw some catch wrestling in with it?

Don't you know anything? It was the d3@dly Hak Fu Mun style... no can counter!

[jmd161]

No, this is what you said: "I've seen stuff you and others said would not work or is the exception become the norm in grappling." Maybe you should go back and read what you have posted.

"Become the norm" generally means it happens all the time.
"In grappling" generally excludes striking.

Okay I should have said MMA since you want to play on words... I'm sure you know what I'm saying but, choose to play dumb.



G&P is not generally consider grappling.

Okay... Okay... it's done in MMA I tend to lump the two together but, we'll keep them separate since it seems to cause confusion...



It is... and when you do that you either roll (which would be strictly grappling) or you do a challenge (which would include striking). If he went in to roll, he wouldn't have been doing striking with them. If he went in to do a challenge, the instructor wouldn't have been encouraging him to hurt his own paying students.

I said he went to roll and try what he's learned with us... obviously at some point they had a match, Is that clear enough for you?



Your buddy just beat the guy and then the guy says, "OK, well, then, hit me in the balls now that you have beaten me in standup?" Sounds like something made up to me.

You ever thought about being a screen writer?

I mean you're in Cali, and you seem to love ad libbing....

I'll explain this one last time... I didn't want to type the entire thing out but, I guess it would have saved time if I had...

My friend had the student in a helpless position with his groin exposed... the guy didn't want to quit and my friend didn't want to hurt him. It was pretty much a stale mate. My friend pointed out the obvious to the instructor that there was nothing the student could do to him in that position... The instructor replied that there was nothing my friend could do either... My friend replied his groin is exposed and he's helpless to stop me if I want to strike him there. The instructor replied a strike to the groin would not be possible...

My friend replied what do you mean not possible showing he could easily reach the guys groin. I can only assume he was thinking that my friend could not strike hard enough from that position to hurt the guy..:confused:

He then told my friend to attempt the strike. My friend refused stating he did not want to strike the guy in the groin. The instructor then asked the dumbest question anyone could ask "do you mind if he tries to strike you in the groin?"

The student paused and agreed to go with what his instructor was saying... He was totally relying on what his instructor was telling him... my friend refused and released the guy. I've heard people talk about CMA and sifu worship but, that was worse than any case of sifu worship I've ever heard of!

Again, if you believe it or not doesn't matter to me because it happened. I know it, my friend knows it, the instructor and students at the Gracie school know it. And those are the only people who matter!

[jmd161]

I'll leave it at this... you believe it or you don't, it's that simple!


In either case let's move on!

This thread has been derailed enough... I apologize to the thread starter for hijacking your thread, it was not my intentions.


jeff:)

[Knifefighter]

Okay... Okay... it's done in MMA I tend to lump the two together...

No you don't. In fact you posted this:

"The punching had nothing to do with grappling so, again let's stick with what was being discussed... is that too hard for any of you?"

You can't even keep your own recent posts straight. No wonder you have so much trouble developing your made up story lines.

[jmd161]

No you don't. In fact you posted this:

"The punching had nothing to do with grappling so, again let's stick with what was being discussed... is that too hard for any of you?"

You can't even keep your own recent posts straight. No wonder you have so much trouble developing your made up story lines.


Bro, seriously let it go!

You take post form different discussions and use them out of context to keep childish BS going, Grow Up!

Let the thread get back on topic... stop being an A$$ Hole and act like a man for a change..:rolleyes:

[Frost]

Bro, seriously let it go!

You take post form different discussions and use them out of context to keep childish BS going, Grow Up!

Let the thread get back on topic... stop being an A$$ Hole and act like a man for a change..:rolleyes:

does that translate as i cant remember which made up story i am now using and am worried i will get them mixed up?

you started talking about grappling...how you had done grappling and seen this in grappling over and over...grappled with purple and black belts etc ...then suddently you really meant MMA (the two are diffeent which you would know if you actually trained either)...your friend went to roll, then to fight...then a challange

i mean please get your story straight before typing it would make things much easier for everyone:)

[Frost]

i believe him. Guy wants to test his skills goes into a bjj gym and beats several blackbelts. Was it just wing chun he was using or did he throw some catch wrestling in with it?

lmao ............:)

[jmd161]

Maybe you missed that I'm done talking about what happened...

It doesn't really matter here nor there because my friend is not me and it does nothing for my skill or ego.

I've asked that you guys allow this thread to get back on subject. It obvious you guys rather talk crap than discuss martial arts. I'll just ask that a admin or moderator come in and clean up this thread and I again apologize to the thread starter for taking it off course.

[Knifefighter]

you started talking about grappling...how you had done grappling and seen this in grappling over and over...grappled with purple and black belts etc ...then suddently you really meant MMA (the two are diffeent which you would know if you actually trained either)...your friend went to roll, then to fight...then a challange

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's say it is true and the friend kind of got jerked around and slapped in the ears enough to rupture his eardrum.

Jeff is claiming that the Gracie school acted with unsportsmanlike conduct, which, if the story is true, would be the case. If this is true, that would be a bad way to represent the Gracie/BJJ name.

We can easily rectify the situation by setting up a recorded rematch between your friend and the guys at that school again.

Which school was it? I have connections to all of the Gracie representative schools in Miami. I think it would be pretty easy to set the wheels in motion to set up a fair, recorded rematch since your friend was possibly treated unfairly the first time around.

[Frost]

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's say it is true and the friend kind of got jerked around and slapped in the ears enough to rupture his eardrum.

Jeff is claiming that the Gracie school acted with unsportsmanlike conduct, which, if the story is true, would be the case. If this is true, that would be a bad way to represent the Gracie/BJJ name.

We can easily rectify the situation by setting up a recorded rematch between your friend and the guys at that school again.

Which school was it? I have connections to all of the Gracie representative schools in Miami. I think it would be pretty easy to set the wheels in motion to set up a fair, recorded rematch since your friend was treated unfairly the first time around.

now thats a good idea :) but am i the only who who things its never going to happer?

[Frost]

Maybe you missed that I'm done talking about what happened...

It doesn't really matter here nor there because my friend is not me and it does nothing for my skill or ego.

I've asked that you guys allow this thread to get back on subject. It obvious you guys rather talk crap than discuss martial arts. I'll just ask that a admin or moderator come in and clean up this thread and I again apologize to the thread starter for taking it off course.

actually until someone posts any evidence of the contest in the thread title actually happening theres not much more to discuss on the thread so dont worry about derailing it :)

[m1k3]

I'm the op and I have to agree with Frost on this. I am really interested in which school and which blackbelts your friend manhandled. You brought this up, I feel it is a worthy addition to the thread and say to all mods and admins to let this continue. I really, really would like to see where it goes.

Jmd161, have you ever been in a bjj school? Have you ever even seen a bjj blackbelt? Just curious.

So, carry on everyone.

[lkfmdc]

I really enjoyed how JMD161 and the queen of England went to Wu Dang and wrestled the Dali Lama in a tag team match and how the queen got the Lama in a RNC, man, that story was entertaining!

[Frost]

I really enjoyed how JMD161 and the queen of England went to Wu Dang and wrestled the Dali Lama in a tag team match and how the queen got the Lama in a RNC, man, that story was entertaining!

stop being an as$ otherwise he will stop telling us his true life stories :)

[jmd161]

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's say it is true and the friend kind of got jerked around and slapped in the ears enough to rupture his eardrum.

Jeff is claiming that the Gracie school acted with unsportsmanlike conduct, which, if the story is true, would be the case. If this is true, that would be a bad way to represent the Gracie/BJJ name.

We can easily rectify the situation by setting up a recorded rematch between your friend and the guys at that school again.

Which school was it? I have connections to all of the Gracie representative schools in Miami. I think it would be pretty easy to set the wheels in motion to set up a fair, recorded rematch since your friend was treated unfairly the first time around.

I'll only respond to this last post on this subject since you did put it in a respectful manner.

Knifefighter,

Think about this and ask yourself would you want to deal with the instructor, school, or same students again?

My friend went to the school with good intentions of hoping to workout, spar, roll test his training, how ever you choose to word it. They agreed and provided a student of their's to have a friendly match with my friend. The student was bigger than my friend but, he had no problem with that as he wanted to see if, what he's been learning works.

They agreed to let my friend strike since he's a striker and not a grappler. They started from standing position. My friend held his own against the first guy avoiding being taken down and tying the guy up. Then the instructor offers another student for my friend to have a friendly match with. My friend is a bit winded but agrees. The second guy and my friend start their match after several failed attempts at taking my friend down they eventually end up in a clinch. from the clinch my friend is overpowered and while being forced backwards and falling down lands a guillotine. At this point is where everything goes to hell in a basket.

My friend refuses to do what the instructor is telling him to do and wants to stop. The guy is still trying to force the issue but is not in a position to really do so. My friend says enough and let's the guy go... after letting the guy go and basically leaving himself unprotected the guy reaches up and smacks his palms over my friends ears.:mad:

Now why my friend didn't press charges?

I have no idea... he's an ADA he knows what his options are. But, I ask this why would anyone want to go back there and try a so called friendly match if, this is how they acted the first time?

Only a fool would put themselves back in that situation!

[Knifefighter]

I'll only respond to this last post on this subject since you did put it in a respectful manner.

Knifefighter,

Think about this and ask yourself would you want to deal with the instructor, school, or same students again?

My friend went to the school with good intentions of hoping to workout, spar, roll test his training, how ever you choose to word it. They agreed and provided a student of their's to have a friendly match with my friend. The student was bigger than my friend but, he had no problem with that as he wanted to see if, what he's been learning works.

They agreed to let my friend strike since he's a striker and not a grappler. They started from standing position. My friend held his own against the first guy avoiding being taken down and tying the guy up. Then the instructor offers another student for my friend to have a friendly match with. My friend is a bit winded but agrees. The second guy and my friend start their match after several failed attempts at taking my friend down they eventually end up in a clinch. from the clinch my friend is overpowered and while being forced backwards and falling down lands a guillotine. At this point is where everything goes to hell in a basket.

My friend refuses to do what the instructor is telling him to do and wants to stop. The guy is still trying to force the issue but is not in a position to really do so. My friend says enough and let's the guy go... after letting the guy go and basically leaving himself unprotected the guy reaches up and smacks his palms over my friends ears.:mad:

Now why my friend didn't press charges?

I have no idea... he's an ADA he knows what his options are. But, I ask this why would anyone want to go back there and try a so called friendly match if, this is how they acted the first time?

Only a fool would put themselves back in that situation!

Where did the nut strike/grab come in if he was holding him in a guillotine?

[jmd161]

Where did the nut strike/grab come in if he was holding him in a guillotine?

I'm sure you realize that what I typed was not the entire story...:rolleyes:

Again, I ask if this is how the first meeting went down why would any sensible person agree to try again with the same school, instructor, and students?

[Frost]

I'm sure you realize that what I typed was not the entire story...:rolleyes:

Again, I ask if this is how the first meeting went down why would any sensible person agree to try again with the same school, instructor, and students?

well if he won as easily as you say he could do it again post the video and become an overnight sensation and really put his style on the map ....plus he would get to kick their ass^s again

[Knifefighter]

I'm sure you realize that what I typed was not the entire story...:rolleyes:

Again, I ask if this is how the first meeting went down why would any sensible person agree to try again with the same school, instructor, and students?

A sensible person would do something to rectify the situation (you yourself said you would go back there). The most reasonable thing to do would be to go back with a few other people and a video cam. He would do a rematch and make himself (and his kung fu) famous by posting it on YouTube showing him kicking @ss on some BJJ black belts.

Where did the nut grabbing come into play then?

Have you ever considered the possibility that your friend was lying to you?

[m1k3]

I'll only respond to this last post on this subject since you did put it in a respectful manner.

Knifefighter,

Think about this and ask yourself would you want to deal with the instructor, school, or same students again?

My friend went to the school with good intentions of hoping to workout, spar, roll test his training, how ever you choose to word it. They agreed and provided a student of their's to have a friendly match with my friend. The student was bigger than my friend but, he had no problem with that as he wanted to see if, what he's been learning works.

They agreed to let my friend strike since he's a striker and not a grappler. They started from standing position. My friend held his own against the first guy avoiding being taken down and tying the guy up. Then the instructor offers another student for my friend to have a friendly match with. My friend is a bit winded but agrees. The second guy and my friend start their match after several failed attempts at taking my friend down they eventually end up in a clinch. from the clinch my friend is overpowered and while being forced backwards and falling down lands a guillotine. At this point is where everything goes to hell in a basket.

My friend refuses to do what the instructor is telling him to do and wants to stop. The guy is still trying to force the issue but is not in a position to really do so. My friend says enough and let's the guy go... after letting the guy go and basically leaving himself unprotected the guy reaches up and smacks his palms over my friends ears.:mad:

Now why my friend didn't press charges?

I have no idea... he's an ADA he knows what his options are. But, I ask this why would anyone want to go back there and try a so called friendly match if, this is how they acted the first time?

Only a fool would put themselves back in that situation!

I thought they were blackbelts, not just students. :confused::confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Not that many Gracies schools around or even BJJ ones, things like this would be easy to verify.
It's funny because, every challenge match I know of or even "walk in" that actuall happened is easy to verify, at least the names of the people involved or where it happened.
The only ones that seem to have issues with those "minor" details are the ones that never happened...

[jmd161]

Not that many Gracies schools around or even BJJ ones, things like this would be easy to verify.
It's funny because, every challenge match I know of or even "walk in" that actuall happened is easy to verify, at least the names of the people involved or where it happened.
The only ones that seem to have issues with those "minor" details are the ones that never happened...


There are only two to my knowledge here in Miami. That limits the number of places needed to contact to verify my story. I can see them answering some random caller asking "if anyone in your school was owned by a guy from another style recently?"

Oh Yeah, I can see them owning up to that for whoever calls...:rolleyes:

[m1k3]

There are only two to my knowledge here in Miami. That limits the number of places needed to contact to verify my story. I can see them answering some random caller asking "if anyone in your school was owned by a guy from another style recently?"

Oh Yeah, I can see them owning up to that for whoever calls...:rolleyes:

Dude, when you look in the mirror did you ever wonder what the 'LOOF' tattoo on your forehead means.

Ask nice and I'll explain it to you. It clears up how your friend told you that story and why you believed him.

:rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are only two to my knowledge here in Miami. That limits the number of places needed to contact to verify my story. I can see them answering some random caller asking "if anyone in your school was owned by a guy from another style recently?"

Oh Yeah, I can see them owning up to that for whoever calls...:rolleyes:

I think you may be missing the point.
If your friend doesn't know the name of the school or WHO he fought, I wouldn't put much faith into his story.

[Dragonzbane76]

to many holes in the story. I've went and sparred at many schools grappling and stand up and never been treated that way. I think your friend left out some parts or imaginationland has come to town.

[Wayfaring]

Not that many Gracies schools around or even BJJ ones, things like this would be easy to verify.
It's funny because, every challenge match I know of or even "walk in" that actuall happened is easy to verify, at least the names of the people involved or where it happened.
The only ones that seem to have issues with those "minor" details are the ones that never happened...

Well being the nice accomodating people that we are, let's help him hunt this down.

Was it:

1) Valente Brothers Academy - http://graciemiami.com/
2) Carlson Gracie Affiliate - http://www.carlsongraciemiami.com/
(which actually has potential for us linking pictures well beyond BJJ - look at the website of one of their instructors- http://www.carmenamara.com/)
3) Rillion Gracie's - http://www.riliongracie.com/
4) Cyborg's - http://www.fightsportssbeach.com/
5) Gracie Barra Miami - http://www.gbmiami.com/

???

[KC Elbows]

If it's not your experience, best let it go.

As for the idea of getting a fair representation of the zaniness that is ma schools and walk-ins, on any side, dream on.

Anecdotes don't help anyone improve their style, bjj guys have, just not the ones who think they're God.

fini

EDIT: and as for the 'mma fight', screw this guy for claiming the prize without doing the work.

[1bad65]

Seeing as how most states have rules in stating fighters must wait XXX days for each round fought in a previous fight before fighting again, and supposedly he fought 2 fights in one event and no one can reference the organization online, yeah this is either a total sham or he just fought in some unregulated event with a bunch of other kung fu guys and thus no seriously training fighters (because no serious fighter would be caught dead competing at an event like that and risk losing their license in an unregulated event which has violated the rules)

This is the truth. If there is no record of the event being sanctioned, it wasn't a pro event.

Also, this story of the guy going into a BJJ school and tapping out a BJJ BB is total bull****.

[taai gihk yahn]

I can place my thumb in the base of your skull on the brain stem and cause you pain doesn't take leverage or much pressure to do so...
um, I don't know about your grappling background, but your knowledge of human anatomy is innacurate; first off, the brain stem is not located in the base of the skull: the closest brain structure to the base of the skull is the cerebellum, the brain stem is anterior to it:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/images/image_popup/r7_brainstem_cerebralcortex.jpg
you see here the brain stem is labeled; the structure just behind it is the cerebellum; so sorry, no "brain stem death touch" possible;
second off, even if you were able to contact someone's brain stem, that wouldn't cause them any pain because brain tissue does not have pain fibers;
third, the structures directly under your fingers when you do contact the base of the skull are the sub-occipital muscles, and the reason they are often tender to touch is because they typically have trigger points in them, due to those muscles typically being under excess strain as they try to correct for postural imbalances lower down the spine; that's why you have pain at the base of the skull; problem is, not everyone has this, and when they do, it's usually only on one side of the cranial base, but u hav no way of knowing which side; so it's really not something to broke on as a viable pain-causing technique;
please do not try to use supposed knowlledge of anatomy to make urself seem authoritative when u clearly do not have any;


Upon letting the guy go and get up the guy dbl slaps his palms together over my training brothers ears rupturing one of his ear drums.:mad:
um, he just avoided being taken down by a BJJ guy, which is basically a bread & butter technique for them (meaning that they are very good at it bec they train it a lot), and then he gets caught with something that they don't train and something that is so easy to defend against it's almost laughable?


after letting the guy go and basically leaving himself unprotected the guy reaches up and smacks his palms over my friends ears.:mad:

so your friend who goes into an "non-friendly" school, ties up one of the students lets the guy go and suddenly drops his guard and leaves himself unprotected?!?
well, if that's the truth, your friend is an idiot - if u go into someone else's school to roll / spar / death match with them, if at any point you drop your guard enough to be exposed at any point in the entire time you are there, you deserve what you get, IMPO; I mean, the time that you should be MOST cautious is right after you stop the action and are re-grouping because especially if you just owned the other guy you should have the presence of mind to know that this is the most likely time he will take a cheap shop, no exceptions, no excuses;

[jmd161]

I think you may be missing the point.
If your friend doesn't know the name of the school or WHO he fought, I wouldn't put much faith into his story.


I think you missed my point...

I know the name and location of the school involved. I didn't mention the name intentionally and don't intend to.

There are more Gracie affiliated schools here than I was aware of but, I said it was a Gracie school not an affiliate.

taai gihk yahn,

You are aware of the soft area at the base of the skull and the neck right?

Well let me use a photo to help jog your memory...

http://www.faqs.org/health/images/uchr_02_img0126.jpg



It's beyond my reasoning to understand why ADULTS would rather keep this BS going than have legitimate discussions?

But these same people that want to continue this are the ones saying there's no way the story could be true... just look at the replies to me and you can easily see that people can be a$$ holes without being provoked!

[Lucas]

I want in on this!

http://www.guzer.com/pictures/homers_brain.jpg

[m1k3]

I think you missed my point...

I know the name and location of the school involved. I didn't mention the name intentionally and don't intend to.

There are more Gracie affiliated schools here than I was aware of but, I said it was a Gracie school not an affiliate.

taai gihk yahn,

You are aware of the soft area at the base of the skull and the neck right?

Well let me use a photo to help jog your memory...

http://www.faqs.org/health/images/uchr_02_img0126.jpg



It's beyond my reasoning to understand why ADULTS would rather keep this BS going than have legitimate discussions?

But these same people that want to continue this are the ones saying there's no way the story could be true... just look at the replies to me and you can easily see that people can be a$$ holes without being provoked!

See the problem is that you do not train BJJ and you are discussing it with a bunch of people who do including a black belt. You present an improbable story about how your "friend" beat not one but two black belts. Then you have the audacity to get annoyed that people don't believe you.

You are making a fool out of yourself with your insistence that we must believe this fairy tale.

I suggest that if you are going to spin yarns you at least stick to martial arts you are familiar with.

[Knifefighter]

I know the name and location of the school involved. I didn't mention the name intentionally and don't intend to.

Why would you not name the school if they acted like jerks?

This is easy to prove one way or the other. Your friend can simply do a rematch with the two black belts.

You said yourself you would go back to the school.

[taai gihk yahn]

taai gihk yahn,

You are aware of the soft area at the base of the skull and the neck right?

Well let me use a photo to help jog your memory...

http://www.faqs.org/health/images/uchr_02_img0126.jpg
what exactly, are you trying to demonstrate? what do you mean by "soft area" at the "base of the skull and the neck" (which are two different areas, BTW - base of the neck is cervicothoracic junction at C7/D1)? that is a vague term that describes nothing;

and that "photo" is nothing more than a poorly-rendered schematic that has no place in any serious discussion of neuroanatomy

here is a far more reliable anatomical drawing (ever heard of Frank Netter, MD?) that clearly demonstrates the same thing I pointed out earlier,
http://www.netterimages.com/images/vpv/000/000/013/13391-0550x0475.jpg

so whatever you may wish to believe, the external area at the base of the skull that you can contact has NOTHING to do with the brain stem, because the brain stem is INSIDE the cranium, the base of the skull is OUTSIDE of the cranium, and also that the cerebellum is closer to the occiput than the brain stem anyway; why are you persisting in this fantasy that you can somehow infuence brain stem by exerting digital pressure to the external occiput?

[anerlich]

The second guy and my friend start their match after several failed attempts at taking my friend down they eventually end up in a clinch. from the clinch my friend is overpowered and while being forced backwards and falling down lands a guillotine. At this point is where everything goes to hell in a basket.

My friend refuses to do what the instructor is telling him to do and wants to stop. The guy is still trying to force the issue but is not in a position to really do so. My friend says enough and let's the guy go... after letting the guy go and basically leaving himself unprotected the guy reaches up and smacks his palms over my friends ears.

My reading of this has the BJJ guy on top, with jmd161's imaginary ADA buddy on the bottom in guard trying to finish a guillotine. The ADA lets the BJJ guy go, and presumably is still on his back at this point.

So how can the supersized evil BJJ BB reach UP to do the deadly BJJ double ear slap?


Let the thread get back on topic... stop being an A$$ Hole and act like a man for a change..

The thread went off topic several times, but most the most recent was down to you. If you want to see who the A-Hole is on this thread, go to the mirror.

[anerlich]

The thread hasn't been a total waste of time.

For example, I've learned that, while two phoenix eye punches to the sternum will get you out of a BJJ BB's mount easily, it is no defense against a double palm slap to the ears. So if you get mount on a KF guy, forget trying to choke or armbar him, just go straight for the ears before he has time to set up the sternum punch. The shock from the ear slap might damage the brain stem, so be careful unless you want a Florida ADA on your a$$.

And that there's a Gracie school in Miami where the head instructor will coach you on how to hurt their own black belt students if you go in and challenge them. I can imagine him fighting JMD and saying "come on! grab my junk! hit me in the sternum! I want you to hurt me!"

Idiocracy came 500 years early in this parallel universe...

[jmd161]

Why would you not name the school if they acted like jerks?

This is easy to prove one way or the other. Your friend can simply do a rematch with the two black belts.

You said yourself you would go back to the school.



I don't know if you seriously think this is a good idea or you're just being a jerk?



I don't see any logic behind going back there after what happened the first time!

If we were to go back to the school and end up in a confrontation... who do you think would loose any court involved judgment?

We would look foolish trying to defend our actions in going back to the school for any other reason than to provoke a confrontation. I'm sure you can see the logic in what I'm saying.

It makes no sense!

That's foolish it's like the BS saying if someone smacks you you turn the other cheek. Why so they can smack you again?:rolleyes:

[anerlich]

History will be kind to me for I intend to write it ~ Sir Winston Churchill

Looks like you're taking Winnie's advice here, though you have little aptitude for it.

[Knifefighter]

If we were to go back to the school and end up in a confrontation... who do you think would loose any court involved judgment?

Court judgment? What are you talking about? How is going back to do the same exact thing he went in the first time to do (except this time with video recorder) going to end up some kind of legal action? It's the same friggin' thing he did the first time... only next time he holds the guillotine until the guy taps (BTW, we could talk about how I know that telling the story in which he supposedly let it go the first time supplies very strong evidence for the story being false- if you'd like to discuss some technical details).

[jmd161]

Court judgment? What are you talking about? How is going back to do the same exact thing he went in the first time to do (except this time with video recorder) going to end up some kind of legal action? It's the same friggin' thing he did the first time... only next time he holds the guillotine until the guy taps (BTW, we could talk about how I know that telling the story in which he supposedly let it go the first time supplies very strong evidence for the story being false- if you'd like to discuss some technical details).



Who in their "RIGHT" mind would return to a place where someone intentionally tried to hurt you? Do you think my friend is interested in a friendly meeting with these cowards after a ruptured ear drum?:confused:

I guess I'm the only person here that see's the stupidity in that idea. Knowingly return to a place to meet people you obviously have animosity towards and expect everything to be cordial. :rolleyes:



You know very well what you're asking makes no sense, I'm done discussing this!

[Frost]

The thread hasn't been a total waste of time.

For example, I've learned that, while two phoenix eye punches to the sternum will get you out of a BJJ BB's mount easily, it is no defense against a double palm slap to the ears. So if you get mount on a KF guy, forget trying to choke or armbar him, just go straight for the ears before he has time to set up the sternum punch. The shock from the ear slap might damage the brain stem, so be careful unless you want a Florida ADA on your a$$.

And that there's a Gracie school in Miami where the head instructor will coach you on how to hurt their own black belt students if you go in and challenge them. I can imagine him fighting JMD and saying "come on! grab my junk! hit me in the sternum! I want you to hurt me!"

Idiocracy came 500 years early in this parallel universe...

LMAO I love the Australian sense of humour :)

You would have thought that if anyone was going to make up a story they would a) make it semi believable
And B) make sure they stick to the same facts and not keep changing them over and over

[Knifefighter]

Who in their "RIGHT" mind would return to a place where someone intentionally tried to hurt you? Do you think my friend is interested in a friendly meeting with these cowards after a ruptured ear drum?:confused:

I guess I'm the only person here that see's the stupidity in that idea. Knowingly return to a place to meet people you obviously have animosity towards and expect everything to be cordial. :rolleyes:



You know very well what you're asking makes no sense, I'm done discussing this!

LOL... this coming from the guy who started out so indignant about their actions that he said he would go back and shoot them.

And now you are talking about wanting to keep things cordial.

Can you say dumb@ss?

[Wayfaring]

My friend had the student in a helpless position with his groin exposed... the guy didn't want to quit and my friend didn't want to hurt him. It was pretty much a stale mate. My friend pointed out the obvious to the instructor that there was nothing the student could do to him in that position... The instructor replied that there was nothing my friend could do either... My friend replied his groin is exposed and he's helpless to stop me if I want to strike him there. The instructor replied a strike to the groin would not be possible...

Since you're clarifying, what position was this where the student was helpless? Can you describe it more? I'm trying to picture a position but am unable.


My friend replied what do you mean not possible showing he could easily reach the guys groin. I can only assume he was thinking that my friend could not strike hard enough from that position to hurt the guy..:confused:

Again if you would clarify the position both were in it might be easier.


He then told my friend to attempt the strike. My friend refused stating he did not want to strike the guy in the groin. The instructor then asked the dumbest question anyone could ask "do you mind if he tries to strike you in the groin?"

So clearly the instructor thinks a groin strike there would not be effective. Was the student in a mounted position on your friend? If so, how is this 'my friend had the student in a helpless position'?


The student paused and agreed to go with what his instructor was saying... He was totally relying on what his instructor was telling him... my friend refused and released the guy. I've heard people talk about CMA and sifu worship but, that was worse than any case of sifu worship I've ever heard of!

It depends. If there was genuinely no danger for a powerful groin strike, then it was fine.

[m1k3]

I don't know about the rest of you but I wear a cup when I train. :D

[goju]

^ getting hiit in the groin builds character!

real men go cupless!:D

[Sihing73]

^ getting hiit in the groin builds character!

real men go cupless!:D

I tuck mine in or sometimes, as my Drill Instructor suggested, I leave my "stuff" back home in a safe place and put it back in place afterwards. Now that is a REAL MAN ;)

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Just the other day while hiking in the woods of Northern Georgia I happened upon the campsite of three BJJ practicianers. I got upset that they had the audacity to be breathing my air and drinking my water from the stream nearby.

Thus I immediately challenged them to a match, winner got to stay in the woods and the loser(s) had to go home. This woudl be a no holds barred match and one of the BJJ guys agreed to video it on his camera phone. (I knew that without this "evidence" no one at KFF woudl believe me)

The first guy came in to shoot my leg, unfortunately for him I am a master of shooting. As he grasped my leg I tapped him on the shoulder and he looked up, directly into my 9mm Smith and Wesson. He let go of me after I pulled the trigger, although I aimed past him and held the barrel next to his ear. He screamed as his eardrum was ruptured by the muzzle blast. I took advantage of his disorientation to submit him by knocking him down and sitting on his head, ****ing all the time, until he tapped out.

The second guy was more cautious and he moved around me slowly trying to feel me out. He asked me to put my gun on the ground and keep it just hand to hand and I, out of a feeling of sportsmanship agreed. This second guy was tough and he took me down to the ground, I managed to get him on his back and he held me between his legs with his legs. This made me nervous as the BJJ guy seemed to enjoy holding another man between his legs. I knew that I had to do something quickly or he would submit me and perhaps make me his man toy. I suddently remembered something I read on the forum and I reached down and punched the guy twice in his sternum with a Pheonix Eye Fist. He gasped in pain and let go and I was free!! I immediatley took advantage of my respite and I stomped on him while he was down, just like we were in a biker bar, by the time I was done he was cuddled in the fetal position and whimpering.

Two down one to guy, but this other one was no joke. SHE was gorgeous and well toned. When she went for the shoot and took down, I knew I was a goner. It was over for me as soon as SHE reached down and grasped my family jewells. SHE let out a squell of delight and mounted me immediately. I must admit that I did not regret my submission in the least. SHE and I will be seeing each other again to try out more moves.

I am afraid that the video was lost as a beaver, so impressed with our last match stole the camera phone and ran away towards the stream. Still, the woods and BJJ now have a special place in my heart. :D

[Wayfaring]

I tuck mine in or sometimes...
I always suspected that you were the type that does a lot of 'tucking'.

However, your inspiring story was touching, and leads me to post a link to the one redeeming discovery that this thread has led to.

http://www.carmenamara.com/photos.html

[Sihing73]

I always suspected that you were the type that does a lot of 'tucking'.

However, your inspiring story was touching, and leads me to post a link to the one redeeming discovery that this thread has led to.

http://www.carmenamara.com/photos.html

The old masters were said to be able to withdraw their, "stuff" back into their body in order to provide protection. This is what I meant by "tucking".

Thanks for the link, I would not mind rolling with her and I can assure you that my "stuff" would not remain "tucked" for long if that were to happen. ;)

[k gledhill]

all this talk of tucking reminds me of a really old martial arts magazine [paper kind , thats how old I am :D], they had an article about guys getting hit in the throat, across the body with planks stuff,like Qi development to absorb blows with no effects and to get hit in the 'stuff' that they trained to retract or 'tuck' :D:D the funniest picture I ever saw , this guy practicing tucking , by putting his feet in hanging rings, like gymnast use, then bending up like doing a full sit up :o that was the 'tuck moment ' :eek::D the guys is looking at the camera in thai boxing shorts , hanging from his feet in these rings :D:D:D tucking, too funny !! good trick just hope they dont get 'stuck in the tuck'
:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hello,

Just the other day while hiking in the woods of Northern Georgia I happened upon the campsite of three BJJ practicianers. I got upset that they had the audacity to be breathing my air and drinking my water from the stream nearby.

Thus I immediately challenged them to a match, winner got to stay in the woods and the loser(s) had to go home. This woudl be a no holds barred match and one of the BJJ guys agreed to video it on his camera phone. (I knew that without this "evidence" no one at KFF woudl believe me)

The first guy came in to shoot my leg, unfortunately for him I am a master of shooting. As he grasped my leg I tapped him on the shoulder and he looked up, directly into my 9mm Smith and Wesson. He let go of me after I pulled the trigger, although I aimed past him and held the barrel next to his ear. He screamed as his eardrum was ruptured by the muzzle blast. I took advantage of his disorientation to submit him by knocking him down and sitting on his head, ****ing all the time, until he tapped out.

The second guy was more cautious and he moved around me slowly trying to feel me out. He asked me to put my gun on the ground and keep it just hand to hand and I, out of a feeling of sportsmanship agreed. This second guy was tough and he took me down to the ground, I managed to get him on his back and he held me between his legs with his legs. This made me nervous as the BJJ guy seemed to enjoy holding another man between his legs. I knew that I had to do something quickly or he would submit me and perhaps make me his man toy. I suddently remembered something I read on the forum and I reached down and punched the guy twice in his sternum with a Pheonix Eye Fist. He gasped in pain and let go and I was free!! I immediatley took advantage of my respite and I stomped on him while he was down, just like we were in a biker bar, by the time I was done he was cuddled in the fetal position and whimpering.

Two down one to guy, but this other one was no joke. SHE was gorgeous and well toned. When she went for the shoot and took down, I knew I was a goner. It was over for me as soon as SHE reached down and grasped my family jewells. SHE let out a squell of delight and mounted me immediately. I must admit that I did not regret my submission in the least. SHE and I will be seeing each other again to try out more moves.

I am afraid that the video was lost as a beaver, so impressed with our last match stole the camera phone and ran away towards the stream. Still, the woods and BJJ now have a special place in my heart. :D

He said beaver !

[Wayfaring]

He said beaver !

pics or didn't happen.