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jmd161
07-06-2010, 07:30 AM
I know most people use the stone locs like in these vids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4428yHZXv9I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_tyGxyaZfc&feature=related

I'm curious if any train using stone locs to condition the arms like this video?

These are 10lbs concrete locs..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26l-HixP3bY

Dragonzbane76
07-06-2010, 07:41 AM
you could get most of those workouts with kettlebells.

jmd161
07-06-2010, 08:02 AM
you could get most of those workouts with kettlebells.


I haven't seen kettle bells that extend out enough to strike the forearms like the locs in the last video, have you?

Those locks are made to specifically strike the forearms.

Dragonzbane76
07-06-2010, 08:46 AM
i said "most" of the work out.

YouKnowWho
07-06-2010, 10:21 AM
The difference between the stone lock and the Kelly bell is the stone lock training intend to integrate CMA skill, speed, and strength development all in one. In that SC stone lock clip (with light weight),

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_tyGxyaZfc&feature=related

the person tried to train "hip throw" or "shoulder throw" by using the tool. This kind of killing 2 birds with 1 stone approach has not yet been integrated into the Kelly bell training as far as I know. Many people try to use extream heavy weight Kelly bell. It's impossible to train MA skill that way. Extream heavy weight and lighting speed just don't go together no matter in the ancient time or in the modern time.

Unless you train outdoor on dirt ground, if you miss any catching in your stone lock throwing, you will either smash your floor or the concrete ground. The bag throwing will be much safer IMO.

This is a good example that CMA guys use stone lock to train and MMA guys use Kelly bell to train. Difference? Not that much at all.

mickey
07-06-2010, 10:27 AM
Hi jmd161,

The exercise is interesting. The question is whether you are deriving the most benefit from the time expended with the exercise. It appears that you want to train a punch to be able to blow through a block and reach its target. You can get a better return on time expended by doing full out forearm strikes on a punching bag and by hitting a punching bag. That kind of penetrating ability involves the entire body. Working on a punching bag will help that considerably.

Some styles of CMA make use of a small cylindrical sandbag to strike the body with to harden particular areas. This is also quite good for the forearms.

mickey

jmd161
07-06-2010, 12:03 PM
Hi jmd161,

The exercise is interesting. The question is whether you are deriving the most benefit from the time expended with the exercise. It appears that you want to train a punch to be able to blow through a block and reach its target. You can get a better return on time expended by doing full out forearm strikes on a punching bag and by hitting a punching bag. That kind of penetrating ability involves the entire body. Working on a punching bag will help that considerably.

Some styles of CMA make use of a small cylindrical sandbag to strike the body with to harden particular areas. This is also quite good for the forearms.

mickey

mickey,

That is indeed one idea of the training for a punch/block. It is also to condition the arms muscle/bone for grinder dummy training. We use the punching bag and sandbag as well. It's a method we use to train breaking and entering techniques as well. There is also footwork involved but, he's just getting the coordination down of swinging two at once which, is much more difficult than it looks.

This is same 15 yr old with a single loc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_py1F8TCo0

One of our training goals is to eliminate wasted movements so this helps us train punching through a strike... we deflect the strike (basically blocking it) while launching our own attack through it... I'm not sure if you understand my meaning?

I have trouble putting my thoughts into words sometimes, sorry.

SanHeChuan
07-06-2010, 12:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUoJ9RkaQnw&feature=PlayList&p=D40ACCFC9957FBA5&playnext_from=PL&index=15

SevenStar
07-06-2010, 01:07 PM
The difference between the stone lock and the Kelly bell is the stone lock training intend to integrate CMA skill, speed, and strength development all in one. In that SC stone lock clip (with light weight),

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_tyGxyaZfc&feature=related

the person tried to train "hip throw" or "shoulder throw" by using the tool. This kind of killing 2 birds with 1 stone approach has not yet been integrated into the Kelly bell training as far as I know. Many people try to use extream heavy weight Kelly bell. It's impossible to train MA skill that way. Extream heavy weight and lighting speed just don't go together no matter in the ancient time or in the modern time.

Unless you train outdoor on dirt ground, if you miss any catching in your stone lock throwing, you will either smash your floor or the concrete ground. The bag throwing will be much safer IMO.

This is a good example that CMA guys use stone lock to train and MMA guys use Kelly bell to train. Difference? Not that much at all.

thyey have light weight kettle bells. the goal with the kettle bell is to integrate total body movement and core strength - you are getting stronger and improving martial skill at the same time, also killing two birds with one stone. MMA guys don'[t concern themselves with conditioning striking surfaces, other than hitting heavy bags. Extreme heavy weight actually does go hand in hand with lightning speed. Some of the most explosive guys on the planet are power lifters. Why? maximal weight training trains the neuro muscular system. the harder your muscles can contract, the more power they can produce. this is not a size thing. now yes, size and speed tend not to go hand in hand, but size training is completely different.

sanjuro_ronin
07-06-2010, 01:09 PM
thyey have light weight kettle bells. the goal with the kettle bell is to integrate total body movement and core strength - you are getting stronger and improving martial skill at the same time, also killing two birds with one stone. MMA guys don'[t concern themselves with conditioning striking surfaces, other than hitting heavy bags. Extreme heavy weight actually does go hand in hand with lightning speed. Some of the most explosive guys on the planet are power lifters. Why? maximal weight training trains the neuro muscular system. the harder your muscles can contract, the more power they can produce. this is not a size thing. now yes, size and speed tend not to go hand in hand, but size training is completely different.

Quoted for the truth.

SevenStar
07-06-2010, 01:11 PM
Hi jmd161,

The exercise is interesting. The question is whether you are deriving the most benefit from the time expended with the exercise. It appears that you want to train a punch to be able to blow through a block and reach its target. You can get a better return on time expended by doing full out forearm strikes on a punching bag and by hitting a punching bag. That kind of penetrating ability involves the entire body. Working on a punching bag will help that considerably.

Some styles of CMA make use of a small cylindrical sandbag to strike the body with to harden particular areas. This is also quite good for the forearms.

mickey

Indeed or "arm boxing" three start drills either with a partner or against a pole.

Dragonzbane76
07-06-2010, 01:25 PM
thyey have light weight kettle bells. the goal with the kettle bell is to integrate total body movement and core strength - you are getting stronger and improving martial skill at the same time, also killing two birds with one stone. MMA guys don'[t concern themselves with conditioning striking surfaces, other than hitting heavy bags. Extreme heavy weight actually does go hand in hand with lightning speed. Some of the most explosive guys on the planet are power lifters. Why? maximal weight training trains the neuro muscular system. the harder your muscles can contract, the more power they can produce. this is not a size thing. now yes, size and speed tend not to go hand in hand, but size training is completely different.

watch out speaking the truth like that....people around here tend to "flip" out if they here such blasphemy.

SevenStar
07-06-2010, 01:58 PM
*crouches into tiger stance to duck under flipping out forum posters*

jmd161
07-06-2010, 03:06 PM
Indeed or "arm boxing" three start drills either with a partner or against a pole.

Yeah, we do this drill as well....

I have a 8ft post in my back yard also.


Looking to get myself a tree trunk and sand it down like we have in the school.

Dragonzbane76
07-06-2010, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by SevenStar
Indeed or "arm boxing" three start drills either with a partner or against a pole.

Yeah, we do this drill as well....

I have a 8ft post in my back yard also.


Looking to get myself a tree trunk and sand it down like we have in the school

when i was in hung gar we called it the tikky toc (clock ref.) drill. At least I think that is what you are describing for arm conditioning.

mickey
07-07-2010, 02:25 PM
Hi jmd161,

I do understand what you are saying. That would mean that you have another drill where the lock strikes the bottom of the forearm. The one you showed would be for attacks under the attacking arm.

mickey

jmd161
07-07-2010, 03:21 PM
Hi jmd161,

I do understand what you are saying. That would mean that you have another drill where the lock strikes the bottom of the forearm. The one you showed would be for attacks under the attacking arm.

mickey

Actually, we don't have a drill for the locs striking the bottom... We use the various dummies and 3 star to make up for it. I was thinking about that the other day actually... how can I better use the locs for the under side of the arm?

It strikes it a bit but not like the top of the arm.

SevenStar
07-07-2010, 07:23 PM
I haven't seen kettle bells that extend out enough to strike the forearms like the locs in the last video, have you?

Those locks are made to specifically strike the forearms.

I actually just tried this with 20lb kettle bells. they smack the forearm, but not very far back. a few inches below the base of the wrist. But like I said before, other than hitting bags and contact sparring, striking surface conditioning is not a focus of mma training.

IronFist
07-07-2010, 08:33 PM
Get some kettlebells for the movements.

Get some iron body bags to strike your arms with.

Train with kettlebells.

Hit arms with iron body bags.

Problem solved.

In fact, it's probably better this way, since you can condition every part of your forearm rather than just the part that the loc (lock?) hits.

Lucas
07-07-2010, 09:50 PM
i like partner drills for forearm conditioning, you can effect your entire limb.

jmd161
07-08-2010, 12:59 AM
i like partner drills for forearm conditioning, you can effect your entire limb.

I agree, but partners are not always on "your" level...


I bang my arms pretty good against metal poles and trees... Not all my training brothers take it to this extreme, so they can't really bang too much with me. Funny thing is my sifu at 60+ still kills me!

I can't bang with him more than 4-5 strikes because it feels like bone to bone and it hurts like hell!

jmd161
07-08-2010, 01:07 AM
Get some kettlebells for the movements.

Get some iron body bags to strike your arms with.

Train with kettlebells.

Hit arms with iron body bags.

Problem solved.

In fact, it's probably better this way, since you can condition every part of your forearm rather than just the part that the loc (lock?) hits.


My sifu has the long slender bags filled with sand for this purpose...



I actually just tried this with 20lb kettle bells. they smack the forearm, but not very far back. a few inches below the base of the wrist. But like I said before, other than hitting bags and contact sparring, striking surface conditioning is not a focus of mma training.

See this is one of those traditional methods that I think would really help in MMA... I can't see this not improving a fighters game.

bawang
07-08-2010, 04:40 AM
for real training you just lift it like a dumbell. max is like 60 pounds

SevenStar
07-09-2010, 09:38 AM
See this is one of those traditional methods that I think would really help in MMA... I can't see this not improving a fighters game.

If it were necessary, it would've been incorporated by now. The actual training provides all of the conditioning needed. sparring conditions the shins, insteps, torso, etc. Grappling does the same. Remember, training should be smart and efficient. why have separate times for conditioning when it can be included. that is an issue some tma is faced with these days. I remember complaints on this forum about classes where there was little to no sparring, because there was no time! you do line kicks, iron palm, calisthenics, forms, weapons, drills, reviewing basics, apparatus training, qi gong, etc. by the time class is done, you don't have time for sparring.

jmd161
07-09-2010, 02:12 PM
If it were necessary, it would've been incorporated by now. The actual training provides all of the conditioning needed. sparring conditions the shins, insteps, torso, etc. Grappling does the same. Remember, training should be smart and efficient. why have separate times for conditioning when it can be included. that is an issue some tma is faced with these days. I remember complaints on this forum about classes where there was little to no sparring, because there was no time! you do line kicks, iron palm, calisthenics, forms, weapons, drills, reviewing basics, apparatus training, qi gong, etc. by the time class is done, you don't have time for sparring.


I don't agree and I'll use your post in another thread to support my argument! This is your reply to my post in another thread...


Originally Posted by SevenStar
I've met seagal and know several of his students. I know he has legit skill. I've just never posted on that thread. Personally, If I was silva, I wouldn't be training with seagal - not for fight prep. Now, if he just always wanted to learn aikido, that's one thing, but I wouldn't take it any further.


Now, in that same thread this is also what you posted...


Originally Posted by SevenStar
you have a guy who, from what we know, doesn't fight, and he's giving fight advice to a guy who makes a living by fighting. even if what he says is valid, it can come across as having less credibility than it would if say, anderson silva had told him.

Anderson Silva makes his living by fighting in the ring... Not only does he make his living in the ring but, he's one of the best at what he does. In the same thread you said you'd lend "credibility" to something if it came from Anderson Silva but turn right around and say you wouldn't accept training from the same person that Anderson Silva is training under?:confused:

This is something I've pointed out before and recently in another thread to knifefighter. Anderson Silva is doing something out the norm and people here are laughing and saying they would not take advice from Seagal. What happens next is he becomes the exception not the norm in debates... then it goes to no it's always been a part of MMA! If anything Seagal teaches Silva becomes the next widely used technique in MMA no one will credit it coming from Seagal or remember this thread...

Yet you always here "who would not be open to anything that can help their fighting?"

SevenStar
07-10-2010, 08:00 AM
This is something I've pointed out before and recently in another thread to knifefighter. Anderson Silva is doing something out the norm and people here are laughing and saying they would not take advice from Seagal. What happens next is he becomes the exception not the norm in debates... then it goes to no it's always been a part of MMA! If anything Seagal teaches Silva becomes the next widely used technique in MMA no one will credit it coming from Seagal or remember this thread...

Yet you always here "who would not be open to anything that can help their fighting?"

1. you don't know what he is looking to learn from seagal or why

2. the fact that he is training with him has no bearing on my statement. HE chose to train with someone who does not fight - that was his decision, and he knows why he made it.

3. If he did learn some snazzy aikido technique and beat a guy with it, no, aikido wouldn't be credited. Why should it? the first "m" in mma stands for "mixed" innovation is bound to happen, and has been since its inception. people used to say head kicks didn't work until cro cop started murdering people with them. louisseau KO'ed a guy with a jump spinning back kick.

I think what I dislike about tma the most is that you guys always want credit for something, as if it matters. look at the stink you guys made here about cung le. "he knows kung fu", "he is a cma", "he wrestled, but that throw was from san shou" etc. even though it is no secret that he has wrestled since he was a young child - and was one of the best in the state at the time - and that he also has training in TKD, you guys still wished to make him a pure cma and downplayed his other experience. In the end, it doesn't matter where it came from. You don't see the muay thai guys running around saying "yeah, that's OUR clinch knee!"


4. what the heck does this have to do with a stone lock? Are you saying that they may use the forearm conditioning to end up KOing a guy with a forearm strike? even still, there would be no need for separate training, just like there is no need currently. they can smash there forearms against the the heavy bag while doing bag work, same as the rest of the striking surface conditioning.

TenTigers
07-10-2010, 08:15 AM
If it were necessary, it would've been incorporated by now.
people are always discovering "new" training methods every day.
Truck tires, sledge hammers,heavy ropes, indian clubs, kettlebells, etc- these are not new, they are ancient.
MMA guys simply haven't heard of them yet.
The Beijing SJ guys are doing great things with stone locks. If it trickles down, it will be the next training tool.


ok, on another line, does anyone have any ideas on how to make their own stone locks?
Anyone have any experience with casting cement, or carving stone?
Where's Uki when you need him....?

Frost
07-10-2010, 09:44 AM
I don't agree and I'll use your post in another thread to support my argument! This is your reply to my post in another thread...




Now, in that same thread this is also what you posted...



Anderson Silva makes his living by fighting in the ring... Not only does he make his living in the ring but, he's one of the best at what he does. In the same thread you said you'd lend "credibility" to something if it came from Anderson Silva but turn right around and say you wouldn't accept training from the same person that Anderson Silva is training under?:confused:

This is something I've pointed out before and recently in another thread to knifefighter. Anderson Silva is doing something out the norm and people here are laughing and saying they would not take advice from Seagal. What happens next is he becomes the exception not the norm in debates... then it goes to no it's always been a part of MMA! If anything Seagal teaches Silva becomes the next widely used technique in MMA no one will credit it coming from Seagal or remember this thread...

Yet you always here "who would not be open to anything that can help their fighting?"

people know silva is bored with mma maybe he is looking to move into films...he sure as sh*t is not learning how to fight from segal..he already knows how to do that:)

silva is not training under him, he was not his student, segal had nothing to do with him becoming the fighter he is that was down to BTT no one else. People see i littlee clip of him training with segal and suddenly its helping him be a better fighter..what he is doing is being polite and getting publicity...but if you think he is learning anything from segal that he can use in the ring.......:rolleyes:

Frost
07-10-2010, 09:51 AM
I think what I dislike about tma the most is that you guys always want credit for something, as if it matters. look at the stink you guys made here about cung le. "he knows kung fu", "he is a cma", "he wrestled, but that throw was from san shou" etc. even though it is no secret that he has wrestled since he was a young child - and was one of the best in the state at the time - and that he also has training in TKD, you guys still wished to make him a pure cma and downplayed his other experience. In the end, it doesn't matter where it came from. You don't see the muay thai guys running around saying "yeah, that's OUR clinch knee!"


4. what the heck does this have to do with a stone lock? Are you saying that they may use the forearm conditioning to end up KOing a guy with a forearm strike? even still, there would be no need for separate training, just like there is no need currently. they can smash there forearms against the the heavy bag while doing bag work, same as the rest of the striking surface conditioning.

these are very good points.

as for no 4 i would like to know the answer too, why condition the upper arms and forearms so much, what exactly is the use, and even if you find one why not simply incoperate it into the sparring and bag work, why complicate it by adding in more stuff that takes away time from sparring and actual training?

Frost
07-10-2010, 09:53 AM
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1025330]people are always discovering "new" training methods every day.
Truck tires, sledge hammers,heavy ropes, indian clubs, kettlebells, etc- these are not new, they are ancient.
MMA guys simply haven't heard of them yet.
The Beijing SJ guys are doing great things with stone locks. If it trickles down, it will be the next training tool.
QUOTE]

people discover gimics every day, and every trainer wants to make themselves special or unique..this does not change the fact that half the stuff above is redundent and useless for most fighters

jmd161
07-10-2010, 10:05 AM
1. you don't know what he is looking to learn from seagal or why

2. the fact that he is training with him has no bearing on my statement. HE chose to train with someone who does not fight - that was his decision, and he knows why he made it.

No, I don't know why he's training with Seagal But, that fact that Silva see's a need to train with Seagal being a fighter of his caliber... is enough to at least look into it!


3. If he did learn some snazzy aikido technique and beat a guy with it, no, aikido wouldn't be credited. Why should it? the first "m" in mma stands for "mixed" innovation is bound to happen, and has been since its inception. people used to say head kicks didn't work until cro cop started murdering people with them. louisseau KO'ed a guy with a jump spinning back kick.

I think what I dislike about tma the most is that you guys always want credit for something, as if it matters. look at the stink you guys made here about cung le. "he knows kung fu", "he is a cma", "he wrestled, but that throw was from san shou" etc. even though it is no secret that he has wrestled since he was a young child - and was one of the best in the state at the time - and that he also has training in TKD, you guys still wished to make him a pure cma and downplayed his other experience. In the end, it doesn't matter where it came from. You don't see the muay thai guys running around saying "yeah, that's OUR clinch knee!"

It's funny you use Cro Cop as an example... When TMA people were saying head kicks would work people who think like you where saying the samething " it would've been incorporated by now" Well, It is a part of the MMA game now. I don't give a rat's a$$ about giving credit to TMA or CMA!! I'm talking about you guys shooting us down on techniques like the head kick when we bring it up... Then later it's all over MMA!



4. what the heck does this have to do with a stone lock? Are you saying that they may use the forearm conditioning to end up KOing a guy with a forearm strike? even still, there would be no need for separate training, just like there is no need currently. they can smash there forearms against the the heavy bag while doing bag work, same as the rest of the striking surface conditioning.

I said it's training I think would help in MMA... That's all nothing more nothing less.

jmd161
07-10-2010, 10:15 AM
people know silva is bored with mma maybe he is looking to move into films...he sure as sh*t is not learning how to fight from segal..he already knows how to do that:)

silva is not training under him, he was not his student, segal had nothing to do with him becoming the fighter he is that was down to BTT no one else. People see i littlee clip of him training with segal and suddenly its helping him be a better fighter..what he is doing is being polite and getting publicity...but if you think he is learning anything from segal that he can use in the ring.......:rolleyes:

It's amazing how hard some of you work to change the context of what someone is saying. You did not see anywhere in my post about Seagal having anything to do with the fighter Silva is! What I did say is he's training under him in that clip... If I'm a boxer and I bring in Freddie Roach to work with me... aren't I now training under Freddie Roach?

He may not be my full time trainer but, I am training under him as long as he's working with me. I think it's foolish to assume he can't learn anything from seagal!

SevenStar
07-10-2010, 10:58 AM
No, I don't know why he's training with Seagal But, that fact that Silva see's a need to train with Seagal being a fighter of his caliber... is enough to at least look into it!

once again, you don't know why he's training with him. He may be looking to learn fight choreography. don't jump to conclusions...now when we hear that he wants seagal to help him train for his next fight...then we can circle back to this.




It's funny you use Cro Cop as an example... When TMA people were saying head kicks would work people who think like you where saying the samething " it would've been incorporated by now" Well, It is a part of the MMA game now. I don't give a rat's a$$ about giving credit to TMA or CMA!! I'm talking about you guys shooting us down on techniques like the head kick when we bring it up... Then later it's all over MMA!

I have a tma background, remember? You won't find a post of mine saying head kicks don't / won't work. you will find posts of me saying they leave you in a highly compromising position, and that is very true. The main thing we, or specifically, I shoot down are straight crap techniques, like when royal dragon was saying after throwing someone to the ground, he would drop a knee in the guy's head from his standing position and KO him (as opposed to bjj guys going for a knee on belly position). Or how you can stop a double leg once it is already in action and your feet are off the ground by elbowing the guy in the back of the neck... the pure BS stuff that comes from theory as opposed to experience.





I said it's training I think would help in MMA... That's all nothing more nothing less.

why in the world would chasing arms help in mma? I'd really like to know. I would say maybe aikido footwork could aid some fighters, but heck, so can boxing footwork.

jmd161
07-10-2010, 11:16 AM
once again, you don't know why he's training with him. He may be looking to learn fight choreography. don't jump to conclusions...now when we hear that he wants seagal to help him train for his next fight...then we can circle back to this.

did you notice the title of the video clip?

Anderson Silva Traing with Steven Seagal for UFC 117

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEEd8jVfycg

It maybe labeled wrong (I don't know) but, that's what I was going by



I have a tma background, remember? You won't find a post of mine saying head kicks don't / won't work. you will find posts of me saying they leave you in a highly compromising position, and that is very true. The main thing we, or specifically, I shoot down are straight crap techniques, like when royal dragon was saying after throwing someone to the ground, he would drop a knee in the guy's head from his standing position and KO him (as opposed to bjj guys going for a knee on belly position). Or how you can stop a double leg once it is already in action and your feet are off the ground by elbowing the guy in the back of the neck... the pure BS stuff that comes from theory as opposed to experience.

I see your point with the examples you're using. I never said any of that or even try any of that stuff RD said. I agree with the knee on the belly position. The elbow argument is... I'll leave that alone. Let's just say I agree with you on that as well.




why in the world would chasing arms help in mma? I'd really like to know. I would say maybe aikido footwork could aid some fighters, but heck, so can boxing footwork.

See this is where stuff gets twisted... I was referring to stone loc training not to chasing arms in aikido. I was saying "I" think it would help... I could be wrong It's just my opinion.

SevenStar
07-11-2010, 07:38 AM
did you notice the title of the video clip?

Anderson Silva Traing with Steven Seagal for UFC 117

I did. I also noticed striking to the back of the neck, an mma no no. Also, with layers of tape AND gloves, what is the likelihood of a successful wrist lock? I can't see this as being for mma unless silva wants to KO his opponent with something cool looking.



See this is where stuff gets twisted... I was referring to stone loc training not to chasing arms in aikido. I was saying "I" think it would help... I could be wrong It's just my opinion.

I'm not saying stone locks won't help - I can see use for them, but a regimen consisting solely of conditioning takes away from training time. it's not efficient, which is why these drills aren't done, as I stated before.

Oso
07-11-2010, 07:20 PM
:)

..........

Dragonzbane76
07-12-2010, 04:00 AM
I like chicken.! :)

SevenStar
07-12-2010, 03:07 PM
:)

..........

stop smiling! :mad:

Oso
07-12-2010, 04:12 PM
lol.........

bawang
10-19-2010, 01:09 AM
small ones you can play with them and twirl them just like people twirl swords and sticks. its for when youre bored. the heavier ones you just lift straight up.
theres also stone barbell for squatting, stone blocks for deadlift, double heavy stone locks for deadlift, stone drum for hugging, stone ball for medicine ball training and giant stone ball like atlas ball.
theres also pulley machines with a wooden frame and a rope tied to a stone lock.

the fancy twirling with the light weights is for fun. they had a stone lock competition in my home province few years ago with up to 80 pounds. the minimum weight for the stone drums are like 150 pounds.

donjitsu2
10-19-2010, 06:40 PM
The stone locks are cool. However, in most countries it is much easier to find Kettlebells ( http://www.dragondoor.com/kkb009.html?apid=uncagedfighter). Plus it is easier to find PROPER instruction on the use of kettlebells that it would be to find someone who really knows how to safely use stone locks.

I read the posts earlier in this thread that suggested you [u]couldn't[/] do the exact same exercises with a kettlebell that you could with a stone lock. But the reality is you CAN do the exact same exercises with a kettlebell! In fact all the exercises I've ever seen done with stone lock I've also seen done with a kettlebell.

YouKnowWho
10-19-2010, 06:46 PM
In fact all the exercises I've ever seen done with stone lock I've also seen done with a kettlebell.

The stone lock is square and the KB is round. You can't throw KB and land it on your fist, arm, or shoulder. May be there are square KB that I have not seen yet.

The purpose between stone lock and KB are complete different. The KB training is "general" physical training that make your body strong. The stone lock training also try to achieve the "general" physical training. It also includes "special" physical training that intend to develop certain special CMA skill. When you throw a stone lock among your training partners, you can develop sharp eye sight, correct body rotation, and correct body alignment. It's not just muscle development.

The difference is also like you go to gym to work out to make youself strong vs. you use a special training tool to develop a certain CMA skill.

donjitsu2
10-19-2010, 08:39 PM
The stone lock is square and the KB is round. You can't throw KB and land it on your fist, arm, or shoulder. May be there are square KB that I have not seen yet.

Well you've got me there but I wouldn't say the stone lock's ability to be thrown and have it land on your fist, arm, or shoulder is of any real benefit to the martial artist. Especially since there is virtually no impact as the individual who is proficient in stone lock lift "recieves" the lock on his fist, arm, or shoulder in the exact same way a kettlebell lifter "recieves" the kettlebell during a snatch or clean.



The purpose between stone lock and KB are complete different. The KB training is "general" physical training that make your body strong. The stone lock training also try to achieve the "general" physical training. It also includes "special" physical training that intend to develop certain special CMA skill. When you throw a stone lock among your training partners, you can develop sharp eye sight, correct body rotation, and correct body alignment. It's not just muscle development.

The difference is also like you go to gym to work out to make youself strong vs. you use a special training tool to develop a certain CMA skill.

I don't agree with this. I think you are mistaken when you say that KB drills are for improving general physical preparedness and stone locks are more suited for specific (to the martial arts) physical preparedness. They are both really only suited for building general levels of strength and conditioning.

There is a common misconception among martial artists (and even among some fitness professionals) that if an exercise looks like a martial arts movement then it is "sports specific" for martial arts. Punching with light dumbbells to improve punching power or speed is a perfect example of this misconception. The reality is more often than not the "joint angle specificity" is all off. And even if the drill was hitting the muscles in the right way the load and speed of the movement would still be off.

The only real specificity a martial artists can get is through sparring and grappling with a real partner. Everything else is actually more on the "General" side of the training spectrum - even heavybag work (S.A.I.D. Principle).

So, other than the dubious "stone lock landing on the shoulder, fist, or arm" I don't see how stone lock lifting is much different from kettlebell lifting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTAELBTbcHc&feature=related

YouKnowWho
10-19-2010, 11:29 PM
I wouldn't say the stone lock's ability to be thrown and have it land on your fist, arm, or shoulder is of any real benefit to the martial artist.
It's used to test your body structure and alignment which is very important in CMA training. It's similiar to Karate guys doing fist puch up. To test whether your wrist is strong enough to throw a punch.

bawang
10-20-2010, 06:35 AM
small stone lock train hand eye coordination and body movement. big stone lock train for strength. its not one or the other its both.