16 step

[SevenStar]

basic wushu form. Everyone says wushu has no martial application, but I have seen every application of this form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6u0otN-19I

did it come from a traditional style and wushu picked it up, or was it made for modern wushu?

[taai gihk yahn]

basic wushu form. Everyone says wushu has no martial application, but I have seen every application of this form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6u0otN-19I

did it come from a traditional style and wushu picked it up, or was it made for modern wushu?

in regards to the first form, it looks pretty "classical" and it's not inconceivable that it was adopted pretty much intact into wushu (I mean, they had to start somewhere, right?)

OTOH, the other form the gal demos is OBVIOUSLY a very traditional set (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucQ4TQmUdoQ&feature=related)...

[Hardwork108]

basic wushu form. Everyone says wushu has no martial application, but I have seen every application of this form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6u0otN-19I

did it come from a traditional style and wushu picked it up, or was it made for modern wushu?

I suspect the definition of "wu shu" here is as in MARTIAL ART rather than the modern Wu Shu, the performing art, that we have all come to know and "love". After all, the girl was not jumping and somersaulting all over the place. Having said that, I doubt that those moves will do her any good if her sifu does not teach her the applications in a systematic manner. What I mean that, if she belongs to a genuine traditional school, then she will for sure be taught the combat applications.

Actually, that form looks pretty much in line with some of the stuff taught in my current school, and yes, each and every move will have valid combat applications.

[Lucas]

did not watch the vid, but may be the same form.

i learned '16', (is the vid a long fist set?) learned application for the entire set. i think it depends on the school/teacher.

[SevenStar]

these guys are pretty traditional:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_1RP-nKJQ


;)

[ManilaCrane]

I suspect the definition of "wu shu" here is as in MARTIAL ART rather than the modern Wu Shu, the performing art, that we have all come to know and "love". After all, the girl was not jumping and somersaulting all over the place. Having said that, I doubt that those moves will do her any good if her sifu does not teach her the applications in a systematic manner. What I mean that, if she belongs to a genuine traditional school, then she will for sure be taught the combat applications.

Actually, that form looks pretty much in line with some of the stuff taught in my current school, and yes, each and every move will have valid combat applications.

gotta have to agree with wat u say. I mean lookin at the video, it looks like just icing without the cake. :/

[Lucas]

that is the same 16. mine is... 'harder' than that, but its the same routine..give or take...i dont want to say because thats a girl but um ya...

traditional....well all i have to say is: im tired of metal that cant make up its mind. be hardcore or not. dont string me along. :p ;)


i cringe when people lock their knees...

[SevenStar]

I mean lookin at the video, it looks like just icing without the cake. :/

of course it does - it's a wushu form. but this form has plenty of practical application, which goes against what people here say about wushu.

[SanHeChuan]

The first draft of Wushu was just a cut and past job of signature traditional techniques from different styles put into a single form. So forms created in the first draft would still have looked traditional.

[KC Elbows]

of course it does - it's a wushu form. but this form has plenty of practical application, which goes against what people here say about wushu.

A lot of the first generations trained in wushu for national teams were young kids with some skill in gongfu already. I had a teacher who was one such person. His entire life before he moved to the states(in his thirties back then) he had to train contemporary wushu and chose to also train in traditional gongfu. His wushu sets had acrobatics, but I've never seen a wushu set where the moves themselves were not from some version of that style, whether we like the flavor of it and the acrobatics or not. Never once have I seen a completely made up move in the older cont. wushu except in the acrobatics, though the detail work is often, imo, based on generalities instead of the most refined approach to that system.

In longfist, the people interested in fighting learned the fighting set, those wanting to do contemporary wushu did so, and neither were ever encouraged to think of themselves as badasses, nor was doing one over the other seen as something bad.

Again, I've yet to speak to a contemporary wushu coach who stresses self defense. They were all raised on the "we're all brothers" no fighting philosophy, but many also racked up traditional approaches.

[KC Elbows]

The first draft of Wushu was just a cut and past job of signature traditional techniques from different styles put into a single form. So forms created in the first draft would still have looked traditional.

Precisely right.

[SevenStar]

so a school teaching the first cut forms wouldn't technically be wrong in saying they were combat focused forms?

[SanHeChuan]

Is any form really combat focused? Do they drill the from the form apps?

[ngokfei]

Its all based on classical martial arts. Sure there are some flamboyant movements adopted into contemporary wushu from gymnastics.

Still take it apart and you have a martial techniques. All you need to do is train them properly with drills, conditioing and sparring.

[KC Elbows]

so a school teaching the first cut forms wouldn't technically be wrong in saying they were combat focused forms?

Most likely correct.

[David Jamieson]

There is no such thing as combat focused forms.

forms are ALL developmentally focused.

[SevenStar]

you know what i mean. all cma guys say "wushu forms have no combat application" 16 step clearly does, which would go against what you guys say about wushu forms.

[SevenStar]

gotta have to agree with wat u say. I mean lookin at the video, it looks like just icing without the cake. :/

if it is whipped cream cheese icing, then I don't even care about the cake...


but let's say it's not whipped cream cheese icing. What do you think is missing from that form? don't go into criticizing her technique - I don't care about that. talk about the form itself. Keep in mind that this is a beginner form - 16 step is like the first training form you will learn in some styles.

[Lucas]

you can definately add more 'flower' to any form. the 16 that i learned is just a string of techniques. nothing wrong with them, all of them are 'applicable'.

its a very straight forward routine, basic techniques. some things just are a preference. like the spear hands for instance...

your basic stances are there, basic principles to build off of. its all basic, and imo with that much basic its hard to remove it to the point that a half way intelligent person could not see the applicability. there arent any 720 kicks in the 16 i learned. ;)

[KC Elbows]

you know what i mean. all cma guys say "wushu forms have no combat application"

We do?

Can you cite a poll?:D

Why do mma guys all like reality shows? And does this bring into question their knowledge of reality?

78% of mma proponents believe that real time was, in fact, choked out by mma in the '90s, and replaced by Real Ultimate Time, which, not being time, takes away any time in which gonads may shrink, subsequently choking out all reason for not doing steroids.

[Lucas]

Your logic is astounding.

[KC Elbows]

Your logic is astounding.

Real Ultimate Time eschews logic in favor of more tatooable mediums.

[Lucas]

Could you explain that in flaming skull tribal format?

[KC Elbows]

Could you explain that in flaming skull tribal format?

LOL!

I would do ROTFLMAO, but my style prefers to avoid going to the ground.

[MasterKiller]

http://i50.tinypic.com/inaat0.jpg

[Lucas]

wow...it all makes so much sense now!

[sanjuro_ronin]

What kind of combat applications are we suppose to see there?
What kind of combat would they work in ??

[Lucas]

well the tribal dragon combines with the flaming skull to turn the dual swords into a deadly two handed attack to vanquish your foes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOL !
I meant in the form !
:p

[bawang]

wushu form have no combat aplication
u guys r dum

[David Jamieson]

A wild idiot appears!

I choose Tank/knives/skull/dragon/fist

It's very effective!

That shirt is an entire philosophy in 100% cotton!

go skull tank devil knives!

[David Jamieson]

wushu form have no combat aplication
u guys r dum

I think he's saying that it "can" be in there.
I agree, seeing as quite a lot of contemporary wushu is lifted from Cha Chuan and Hua as well somewhat.

But it is not taught with correct martial intent.

contemporary wu shu is not dissimilar to wtf tkd in that respect. Just a bunch of flash, not a lot of substance.

[Lucas]

lol oh. duh the form, not the tribal flaming skull... ;)

its all broken apart really. its an introductory routine. get you comfortable with stance transition, hip rotation in combination with a few basic strikes. all exagerated and big. for example at the beginning when you step out rotate the hip and strike, in the next routine, 32, those steps have breaking blocks in them as well, and introduces armwheels. i havnt practiced these routines in years.

[bawang]

these modern forms are similar to old beginner forms but important information is taken out
like no fighting stance
and the techniques make no sense

[David Jamieson]

these modern forms are similar to old beginner forms but important information is taken out
like no fighting stance
and the techniques make no sense

yes, wushu tends to go for overextended limbs, long stances held in place and no real martial intention. Yes the martial was removed from the original materials.

There's a lot of history around it and a lot of stubborn minds that still support it as an "art" form, despite the reality that the for real stuff is available.

Many prefer to dream. Go figure. lol

[bawang]

ye "art" form

i see no art it. i see only stupid gay.
like someone singing lady gaga poker face in gregorian chant


wushu took the most flowery moves from traditional kung fu. theres no fighting application period

[Lucas]

ya thats why i say they are broken. the only thing they can be used for is just introduction to very basic stuff. just make a good wu bu quan and you have better introduction routine if you want one.

[David Jamieson]

i see no art it. i see only stupid gay.
like someone singing lady gaga poker face in gregorian chant

come on that would take a bit of talent to do poker face in Gregorian Chant.

I saw this vid of Daughtry doing poker face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t90dFkM9acg) on acoustic guitar...it was pretty good. lol

[bawang]

ya thats why i say they are broken. the only thing they can be used for is just introduction to very basic stuff. just make a good wu bu quan and you have better introduction routine if you want one.

buwuquan is dog sh1t. concept of "introduction form" is dumb

[Lucas]

i agree, but imo you could make a better introductory set than 16. if you are going to have a form introduction i think it would better to just make a good combat one on your own.

[bawang]

if u teaching beginner a form there is a chance he will never be able to use kung fu to fight. beginner should learn basic punching kicking wrestling and footwork and iron body



there is a real penonmenon in traditional kung fu called "the gay" stages of pacification pussification and spiritual castration
negative consequence of training by choreographed form:
over increase 500% the gay

[Lucas]

LOL ur hillarious

totally. strength training, body conditioning, stances/transitions, punches, kicks, falling, jumping, rolling, drills, pads, sparring, etc.

i just started teaching 2 people this is what im doing. IF they want to learn any form i will teach them way later. imo it wastes time at the beginning.

wont stop the majority of people starting with forms tho...

[bawang]

good traditional traning kung fu is modular training
show a techque, show excercise that come wit technique then spar

[Dragonzbane76]

tell us how you really feel bawang .....:p

[bawang]

tell us how you really feel bawang .....:p

i hate wing chun and bruce lee. bruce lee married his student, who looks like a hairless donkey.
i hate yip man. 1000 year old northern six harmony spear defeated the fukin samurai with a 1to 10 kill ratio.
yip man six and a half pole beat up some 110 pound mahjong gamblers and become the deadly

[Lucas]

good traditional traning kung fu is modular training
show a techque, show excercise that come wit technique then spar

demonstrate, have perform along side during demonstration, have perform technique solo, work drills and application, teach back what you learned as best you can (gague grasp), use in live drills and try to use in sparring. this is the method ive always used to teach pretty much anything.

[bawang]

most important is lfting weights and hitting things.
lifting weights = gong

obsessing about technique is also a big mistake in kung fu. northern kung fu depends on brute strength and haymakers. if someone cant accept that they need to change style

[Dragonzbane76]

hate wing chun and bruce lee. bruce lee married his student, who looks like a hairless donkey.
i hate yip man. 1000 year old northern six harmony spear defeated the fukin samurai with a 1to 10 kill ratio.
yip man six and a half pole beat up some 110 pound mahjong gamblers and become the deadly

haha you have some pent up anger....lol:D

[bawang]

haha you have some pent up anger....lol:D
im not angry mang.

edit: i lie. i am very angry

[KC Elbows]

wushu form have no combat aplication
u guys r dum

I am dum, but the first batch of wushu forms that were organized were largely straight out of the traditional stuff. Whether the adaptations were as good, I tend to think they were as good as some lines, but nowhere near the best in the style. I am aware of this because my first kungfu teacher was trained in both wushu and traditional kungfu(he showed talent as a kid, and so he was expected to do wushu, he was a mainlander).

Later versions got closer and closer to cirque du soleil and further and further from real gongfu.

[sanjuro_ronin]

most important is lfting weights and hitting things.
lifting weights = gong

obsessing about technique is also a big mistake in kung fu. northern kung fu depends on brute strength and haymakers. if someone cant accept that they need to change style

Best post ever !!!
You have won the internet !!
Your price is a life time supply of KFC !!

[Dragonzbane76]

Or 2 hairy mongolian women, your choice.