Kimbo gets a boxing lesson from Michael Jai White (vid)

[IronFist]

Don't Telegraph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcWMeT1Pt7A

Discuss.

[Knifefighter]

The funny this is that Kimbo would destroy him in less than a minute.

Gotta love the fantasy non-fighters who attempt to give real fighters lessons in fighting.

[PHILBERT]

Would have been better if he had said to Kimbo "Ha-ha! I threw that **** before I walked in the room!"

Sorry couldn't resist.

Good video, I will try that tomorrow night if we do some boxing.

As for Knifefighter's comments, supposed he has a black belt in Kyokushin Karate, which last I checked, wasn't exactly a "fantasy non-fighters" style of Karate.

[doug maverick]

i dont know about all that...yes michael jai white makes movies...but he ****ing trains like a beast.... he fights like one too...only talk what you know...not what you think you know.

[Knifefighter]

There's plenty of evidence of Kimbo having plenty of full-contact fights.

I dont' think there is any evidence of Michael Jai White having done so.

BTW, having a BB in Kyokushin Karate doesn't necessarily mean someone actually has experience in full-contact fighting.

[Knifefighter]

i dont know about all that...yes michael jai white makes movies...but he ****ing trains like a beast.... he fights like one too...only talk what you know...not what you think you know.

Really? Well maybe you could point to some evidence for his fighting ability.

[goju]

oh **** this is just a thread to discuss the video not a thread to talk **** about someone (who isnt even present mind you) like youre some some 14 year old drooling bullshido mongoloid :rolleyes:

[TAO YIN]

He's not on Sherdog. What a wimp...

:p

[Lucas]

This from wiki so take it for what it is.

'He is an accomplished martial artist, holding seven legitimate black belts in Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, Kobudo, Goju Ryu, Tang Soo Do, Wushu and Kyokushin,[4][5] with a specific focus in Kyokushin (although his style incorporates aspects of many different martial arts forms).[6] White started martial arts training at the age of seven.'

i dont think he has a fight record. but im sure hes done tons of sparring in his training, unless thats all bs, so while he may or may not have any real fight experience, im sure he has a few things he can share. he wasnt wrong in the vid so it is what it is.

[Yao Sing]

Not just 1 but 7 Black Belts. His website says he trained with Bill Wallace and Benny Urquidez.

http://www.michaeljaiwhite.com/

Of course without a fight video it's all meaningless.

[Knifefighter]

This from wiki so take it for what it is.

'He is an accomplished martial artist, holding seven legitimate black belts in Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do, Kobudo, Goju Ryu, Tang Soo Do, Wushu and Kyokushin,[4][5] with a specific focus in Kyokushin (although his style incorporates aspects of many different martial arts forms).[6] White started martial arts training at the age of seven.'

i dont think he has a fight record. but im sure hes done tons of sparring in his training, unless thats all bs, so while he may or may not have any real fight experience, im sure he has a few things he can share. he wasnt wrong in the vid so it is what it is.

Actually, he was wrong in the video. He was trying to say that what boxers do is wrong. There's a reason boxers (and MT fighters, and MMA fighters) don't fight the way he was suggesting. People who have much full contact fight experience generally know that there are specific reasons for that.

[Lucas]

i seem to have taken it differently. i saw it from the view of a sucker punch. not a format to fight from.

[Lucas]

Not just 1 but 7 Black Belts. His website says he trained with Bill Wallace and Benny Urquidez.

http://www.michaeljaiwhite.com/

Of course without a fight video it's all meaningless.

lol his website is bad ass you have to admit.

[jmd161]

Actually, he was wrong in the video. He was trying to say that what boxers do is wrong. There's a reason boxers (and MT fighters, and MMA fighters) don't fight the way he was suggesting. People who have much full contact fight experience generally know that there are specific reasons for that.

What I took from It, is what he said... try not to telegraph your punches! My sifu stresses the same point. If you have nothing to read... it's a lot harder for the other person to avoid being hit. In my experience most people do one of two things when striking... they relax sinking the shoulder or tense up slightly raising the shoulder... both give you reads. My sifu does neither... nor does his expression or eyes give away his intent. He trains us by having us shadow box in front of a mirror all the while working on not giving any reads. We then also do partner drills throwing strikes at each other trying not to give the other any reads.

I don't see a problem with that... maybe he worded it wrong saying they do it wrong but, I see nothing wrong with the advice.

[TenTigers]

Actually, he was wrong in the video. He was trying to say that what boxers do is wrong. There's a reason boxers (and MT fighters, and MMA fighters) don't fight the way he was suggesting. People who have much full contact fight experience generally know that there are specific reasons for that.
continue...what are the reasons?
Please give examples.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

There's plenty of evidence of Kimbo having plenty of full-contact fights.

I dont' think there is any evidence of Michael Jai White having done so.

BTW, having a BB in Kyokushin Karate doesn't necessarily mean someone actually has experience in full-contact fighting.

Neither does having experience in boxing or Muay Thai for that matter. But when a person says they train in either of those arts, they are given instant status by most. That being said, there are several people who train in boxing and Muay Thai who never fight full contact and some who probably never spar. Most Kyokushin schools do not give away black belts, if MJW has a black belt in Kyokushin, I'm pretty sure he's banged hard before. That earns him the right to have an opinion, at the very least.

[sanjuro_ronin]

One of the standard for a BB in kyokushin is a multi-man full contact kumite match ( face punching being optional).
Depending on the size of the school it can range from 10 man to 30 man.
1-2 minute rounds ( typically 1 min) and usually you get the lower belts at the end so they can beat you into a pulp for all those times you did that to them.

[Knifefighter]

Neither does having experience in boxing or Muay Thai for that matter. But when a person says they train in either of those arts, they are given instant status by most. That being said, there are several people who train in boxing and Muay Thai who never fight full contact and some who probably never spar. Most Kyokushin schools do not give away black belts, if MJW has a black belt in Kyokushin, I'm pretty sure he's banged hard before. That earns him the right to have an opinion, at the very least.

Training in boxing or MT doesn't necessarily mean someone has fought. My point was there is plenty of hard evidence that Kimbo has fought full contact and none for MJW.

[Knifefighter]

One of the standard for a BB in kyokushin is a multi-man full contact kumite match ( face punching being optional).
Depending on the size of the school it can range from 10 man to 30 man.
1-2 minute rounds ( typically 1 min) and usually you get the lower belts at the end so they can beat you into a pulp for all those times you did that to them.

He got his BB at age 12. Somehow I doubt he got beaten to a pulp in his BB test.

[sanjuro_ronin]

He got his BB at age 12. Somehow I doubt he got beaten to a pulp in his BB test.

12?
Wow, that is something and no, I doubt he did that ( multi-man).
There used to be an "unwritten" rule in kyokushin that you don't get a BB if you are under 18, 16 for those that are "physically mature".
I wonder when that changed?

[sanjuro_ronin]

I take it they were doing a movie together ?

[lkfmdc]

wait, did someone just say he got a Kyokushinkai BB at 12 :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

I just saw the video and Mike has a point about not telegraphing the jab or any punch, but the fact that SOME boxers do doesn't mean they are taught to do that.
We all get little 'quirks" when we fight, some boxers do move their shoulder a lot, Kimbo is like that.
Now, in boxing the jab is sometimes telegraphed on purpose as a set up, so it's not always a bad thing,it's only bad when you do it and dont' know that you are doing it.
The shoulder movement can also add reach and a bit more Bam to the strike.

[sanjuro_ronin]

His website says he was the US Open N.American JKA, knockdown freestyle champion.

[taai gihk yahn]

His website says he was the US Open N.American JKA, knockdown freestyle champion.

yet oddly it doesn't state a year or division...just sayin'...

[Knifefighter]

12?
Wow, that is something and no, I doubt he did that ( multi-man).
There used to be an "unwritten" rule in kyokushin that you don't get a BB if you are under 18, 16 for those that are "physically mature".
I wonder when that changed?

Or, maybe, "gasp", his website is making stuff up.

[lkfmdc]

was about to mention, anyone associated with Hollywood, take whatever they say with GREAT skepticism (some people in Hollywood are downright insane ;) LOL)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Or, maybe, "gasp", his website is making stuff up.

Well, it said it was under Shigeru Oyama and I know that there were some issues with how he promoted people ( americans) in Kyokushin.

[lkfmdc]

Well, it said it was under Shigeru Oyama and I know that there were some issues with how he promoted people ( americans) in Kyokushin.

you are feeling diplomatic this morning ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

you are feeling diplomatic this morning ;)

LMAO !
Well, I don't wanna create a situation that gets this thread locked too, LOL !

Besides, I think that everyone in the MA world knows the horrid politics of Kyokushin.
It was a mess for a long time, nut I never bothered getting involved with it that much.
Heck, I don't even know if my Nidan is even worth the paper it is written on anymore, not that it matters.

[lkfmdc]

In the 80's we used to wait downstairs from that school and looked for sparring partners, they were the only gym in NYC at the time that you could find guys willing to spar with leg kicks and knees ....

Over the years, well, you know....

[David Jamieson]

I really wouldn't put much stock in actors making claims to multiple black belts etc.
When exactly would they have the time to learn to act? lol

7 black belts indeed. that's a hell of an achievement! :D

*edit*...and I say this because I hold two + 1 brown and it took me 15 years to get those and it was hard work.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

LMAO !
Well, I don't wanna create a situation that gets this thread locked too, LOL !

Besides, I think that everyone in the MA world knows the horrid politics of Kyokushin.
It was a mess for a long time, nut I never bothered getting involved with it that much.
Heck, I don't even know if my Nidan is even worth the paper it is written on anymore, not that it matters.

Politics have been the downfall of many martial arts systems. When money and recognition take the place of fighting and training, and people are promoted to high ranks simply for paying a fee and making someone rich, the end is near. Nothing is more sad than seeing an overweight, uncoordinated black belt sh**it up a system, especially when a six month practioner of a real fighting system would hand them their ass!

[Knifefighter]

BTW, you do realize that everything he was demonstrating there were simply parlor tricks, right? And you realize that the second set of "power jabs" were not even jabs, right? And that the fact that they were not jabs were all part of the parlor trick setup, right?

Not to mention that the fact that he was able to so easily "hit" Kimbo's hand is one of the very reasons that type of "jab" isn't very effective in the first place.

[lkfmdc]

You know, some people see the MMA thing as some apocolyptic event in the history of martial arts

I tend to see martial arts history as cyclic.... every tradition/system seems to get bogged down in crap until some event/period wakes everybody the F up and then we start all over again....

[Lokhopkuen]

Don't Telegraph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcWMeT1Pt7A

Discuss.

Nice vid thanks for posting.

[sanjuro_ronin]

BTW, you do realize that everything he was demonstrating there were simply parlor tricks, right? And you realize that the second set of "power jabs" were not even jabs, right? And that the fact that they were not jabs were all part of the parlor trick setup, right?

Not to mention that the fact that he was able to so easily "hit" Kimbo's hand is one of the very reasons that type of "jab" isn't very effective in the first place.

Well, I've hit and been hit more with slow shots and unorthodox ones than I have with the real stuff.
Of course the real stuff hurts more.

[Lucas]

thats why i took it as a sucker punch, from when he was talking all about using that for the one sneaky hit.

who knows how he got all those black belts....maybe he got them on martial arts mart (http://www.martialartsmart.com/11-90k.html)

[jmd161]

You know, some people see the MMA thing as some apocolyptic event in the history of martial arts

I tend to see martial arts history as cyclic.... every tradition/system seems to get bogged down in crap until some event/period wakes everybody the F up and then we start all over again....

I've said this for years!

What sparked this "WAKE UP" was that grappling stepped up it's game. Grappling has always been there.... it never went stagnant like most striking arts. Most striking arts went into a vacuum and got further and further away from physical contact. Common sense tells you a person that uses his techniques on a daily basis while training, is going to be more effective than a person that trains forms without ever testing his techniques!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out...

[Dragonzbane76]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out...

but still you have idiots that will never let go of it and will swear without doubt what they do is absolute and never venture out of there protective bubble (tma) to see if what they have works. grappling did set it up but it has even evolved past that now.

[Lokhopkuen]

I've said this for years!

What sparked this "WAKE UP" was that grappling stepped up it's game. Grappling has always been there.... it never went stagnant like most striking arts. Most striking arts went into a vacuum and got further and further away from physical contact. Common sense tells you a person that uses his techniques on a daily basis while training, is going to be more effective than a person that trains forms without ever testing his techniques!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out...

Where is this giant clan of people that practice forms without ever testing their techniques?

I hear about them all of the time.

We need to find them and let them know what to do before it's too late.

They probably live very close to the people that imagine only Jiujitsu uses grappling techniques:rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

http://i.imgur.com/DTguQ.jpg

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Where is this giant clan of people that practice forms without ever testing their techniques?

I hear about them all of the time.

We need to find them and let them know what to do before it's too late.

They probably live very close to the people that imagine only Jiujitsu uses grappling techniques:rolleyes:

You can find them outside all UFC events protesting and ranting on about "teh realz kung fu" Geesh, man, don't you know anything!:p

[Knifefighter]

I've said this for years!

What sparked this "WAKE UP" was that grappling stepped up it's game. Grappling has always been there.... it never went stagnant like most striking arts. Most striking arts went into a vacuum and got further and further away from physical contact. Common sense tells you a person that uses his techniques on a daily basis while training, is going to be more effective than a person that trains forms without ever testing his techniques!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out...

Boxing and Muay Thai never "went stagnant".

[Dragonzbane76]

lolzzz classic...

[Faruq]

The funny this is that Kimbo would destroy him in less than a minute.

Gotta love the fantasy non-fighters who attempt to give real fighters lessons in fighting.

That's probably what everyone thought about the guy who knocked Kimbo out and ended his transitition from internet streetfighting legend to MMA super star, lol.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

http://i.imgur.com/DTguQ.jpg

Apparently someone on this forum didn't pay MK enough to make those photos disapper!

[lkfmdc]

Boxing and Muay Thai never "went stagnant".

Boxing disappeared off the face of the planet for a good part of human history as you probably already know. When it returned, it was co-opted into a contest with financial implications, which ironically kept it "real"

For all the Muay Thai in the world, influenced by boxing in structure and emphasis, you have the wack jobs in the jungle doing the "deadly" with their fake swords and flying head butts, and ancient Thai martial arts "secrets".... ever saw that Fight Quest episode, where Yodsenklai was laughing his nuts off at the stuff the muay baran guys were doing? :D

[Knifefighter]

That's probably what everyone thought about the guy who knocked Kimbo out and ended his transitition from internet streetfighting legend to MMA super star, lol.

No, pretty much everyone who does MMA knew that Kimbo was going to get smoked by people who had more experience in fighting MMA.

Same as Kimbo more than likely has more full contact fighting experience than MJW.

[lkfmdc]

Apparently someone on this forum didn't pay MK enough to make those photos disapper!

I really DO NOT want to know WTF is up with those :eek:

[Dragonzbane76]

I really DO NOT want to know WTF is up with those

sure you do...lol.... it's one of those sick things you just can't turn away from no matter how disturbing.

[lkfmdc]

sure you do...lol.... it's one of those sick things you just can't turn away from no matter how disturbing.

ok, well, like, WHO is in that pic....

(I know I should just RUN AWAY!)

[Dragonzbane76]

No, pretty much everyone who does MMA knew that Kimbo was going to get smoked by people who had more experience in fighting MMA.

Same as Kimbo more than likely has more full contact fighting experience than MJW.

i agree everyone kinda knew that kimbo was probably not going to make it even in the lower levels of mma.

one thing i liked about kimbo was the fact he never professed to be something he's not, unlike a bunch of people on here. When i watched interviews with him he was always humble and stated in big lettering "I'm just along for the ride." More of an honest answer than most give.

[Dragonzbane76]

ok, well, like, WHO is in that pic....

(I know I should just RUN AWAY!)
__________________

hell, if i know... ask MK. :)

[lkfmdc]

Kimbo is actually a nice guy who has TRIED to learn new skills. He was put on the headliner by a company trying to cash in on his name and a lot of people hate him for that but the fact remains the man himself never said he was all that...

You also can't blame him, he was offered a crap load of cash to do what he wanted to do anyway...

[jmd161]

Boxing and Muay Thai never "went stagnant".

Thus the MOST in my post...


I was speaking of TJMA and TCMA becoming stagnant. When I started karate some 30 plus yrs ago sparring and full contact was the norm. The same with CMA about 25-30 yrs ago... we sparred and fought as I moved to different schools over the yrs it became very rare if ever you sparred much less fought.

[Knifefighter]

Kimbo is actually a nice guy who has TRIED to learn new skills. He was put on the headliner by a company trying to cash in on his name and a lot of people hate him for that but the fact remains the man himself never said he was all that...

You also can't blame him, he was offered a crap load of cash to do what he wanted to do anyway...

Nothing wrong with what he did. At his age, he probably didn't have the time to put in to develop the skills it takes to get to the top of the MMA game.

Doesn't change the fact that someone with relatively little MMA skills and experience is going to get smoked by guys with significantly more skills and experience.

[MasterKiller]

ok, well, like, WHO is in that pic....

(I know I should just RUN AWAY!)

I'm not naming names, but let's just say he got a gold medal doing Eagle Claw at Legends of Kung Fu (Taiji Legacy). ;)

[jmd161]

Nothing wrong with what he did. At his age, he probably didn't have the time to put in to develop the skills it takes to get to the top of the MMA game.

Doesn't change the fact that someone with relatively little MMA skills and experience is going to get smoked by guys with significantly more skills and experience.


I don't know Kimbo personally although I do know his brother. A lot was thrown at him like previously said in this post. What most people fail to understand his how fast this all came about... He was expected to go from pure stand up street fighter to full MMA in no time. He was a stand up fighter... It was very obvious that he had no ground game...

He did try to pick up a ground game but he was expected to pick up all this stuff in a relatively short period of time. He's not a young guy and he was facing younger guys who have at least some ground experience. His first few fights were planned against the people he fought for a reason... They were strikers and gave him a chance. It was Inevitable that as he moved on he was going to be matched against more experienced MMA people with a more balanced game and be taken down.

Dana White did the same thing he gave Elite and Kimbo so much flack over and cashed in on his fame! No one ever expected Kimbo to go anywhere in the MMA world except for a few clueless nut huggers!

[Lokhopkuen]

http://i.imgur.com/DTguQ.jpg

Awesome you sick b'tard:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm not naming names, but let's just say he got a gold medal doing Eagle Claw at Legends of Kung Fu (Taiji Legacy). ;)

WTF????
Something wicked this way comes....

[David Jamieson]

Tranny Fu is gonna make a break through!

[doug maverick]

Really? Well maybe you could point to some evidence for his fighting ability.

why dont you point to some evidence of his non fighting? im pretty sure if i looked around i could find some full contact matches he fought back in his day...but its not for me to do...its for you to do, you're the one who opened his mouth without having the full information on an individual...do your homework first.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think all you fools forget, He IS BLACK DYNAMITE !!!!

[taai gihk yahn]

why dont you point to some evidence of his non fighting? im pretty sure if i looked around i could find some full contact matches he fought back in his day...but its not for me to do...its for you to do, you're the one who opened his mouth without having the full information on an individual...do your homework first.

Well actually the onus is on white as he is the one making the claim - for example he states he was a knckdown champion but does not provide info on when where and at what level he achieved this; if someone questions this it is not on them to fi d evidence, it's on the one making the claim - this is in any field: if I claim certain medical trtment works but do not provide evidence of this, if someone calls me on it it's not their job to find proof, it's mine to provide it; same w white - he makes the
claim, he has to provide the specifics

[Lucas]

im a knock down champ every time i visit an elementary school during recess!

[sanjuro_ronin]

With all truthfulness, in the 80's and 90's there were many knockdown tournaments that would have made one a State, or country or even world champion.
I myself was the N.American full contact champion according to one tournament I did in Montreal, no biggie.
The experience meant more then the "title" ever did.
Outside of sanctioned competitions, titles don't mean that much.

[PHILBERT]

12?
Wow, that is something and no, I doubt he did that ( multi-man).
There used to be an "unwritten" rule in kyokushin that you don't get a BB if you are under 18, 16 for those that are "physically mature".
I wonder when that changed?

Probably a Shotokan black belt. Notice how KF only said that he got his black belt? The guy has 7 black belts in different styles of Karate/Tae Kwon Do/Tang Soo Do.

He wouldn't have gotten a Kyokushin black belt at that age.

[PHILBERT]

No, pretty much everyone who does MMA knew that Kimbo was going to get smoked by people who had more experience in fighting MMA.

Same as Kimbo more than likely has more full contact fighting experience than MJW.

A stopped clock is correct at least twice a day.

Just because Kimbo has more experience doesn't necessarily mean that he can't learn something from MJW.

You are probably the most closed minded person on this forum.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think a kid can get a bb at 12 in kyokushin karate do.
unless it's changed and they have a kids bb now or something?

[Yao Sing]

If you don't have fight video from a recognized event you are obviously totally clueless. Anyone without a fight video can't possibly know anything.

And unless documented evidence is provided all MA peeps are liars about their past training and experience.

Get it straight guys. :rolleyes:

[jmd161]

Well actually the onus is on white as he is the one making the claim - for example he states he was a knckdown champion but does not provide info on when where and at what level he achieved this; if someone questions this it is not on them to fi d evidence, it's on the one making the claim - this is in any field: if I claim certain medical trtment works but do not provide evidence of this, if someone calls me on it it's not their job to find proof, it's mine to provide it; same w white - he makes the
claim, he has to provide the specifics


I think too much is being read into this video...

MJW never said anything in the vid about his background. Yes his website makes claims about his MA background but, that's here nor there... He gave what IMO was good advice... The only thing here is if you agree or disagree on the advice he was giving.

I've heard that he has legit skills but, I've heard that from second hand sources that I can't personally verify.



Originally Posted by PHILBERT
Just because Kimbo has more experience doesn't necessarily mean that he can't learn something from MJW.

I agree with this!

[David Jamieson]

i have a boxing record from my neighbourhood Community Club in my home town from waaaay back.

The Canadian boxing association has not got it, nor does any online resource.

The C.C has moved on and other boxing clubs overshadowed it but they still have their boxing program in one of the TRi-clubs they run under a different name now.
I am that old that there is zero video of me doing juvenile boxing.
I have not got any of my gear left from when I was a kid, no medals, no gloves, no dues card, no nothing.

I still have the boxing though. :D and that's good enough. lol

Problem with the wholes vids thing is that most people over 40 don't have that. And if you're like me and have lost all your possessions in your life through misfortune, then all that matters is that you still have the memories and hopefully the practices still.

Martial artists, and those who armchair around them, in this day and age of instant gratification in full media productions can't fathom quite often that that simply wasn't there for us older crowd.

Crap, we didn't even have a TV until I was 12! lol

Kids these days. all **** and vinegar. At first it was only vinegar though.... :p

[jungle-mania]

I don't know why so many of you are talking MJW credibility, when the theory of his argument should be quantified and dissected for validity, not him. Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with his approach at all.

[SevenStar]

I really DO NOT want to know WTF is up with those :eek:

doesn't the dude kissing the "chick" remind you of philbert?

[SevenStar]

I don't know why so many of you are talking MJW credibility, when the theory of his argument should be quantified and dissected for validity, not him. Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with his approach at all.

here's the thing. with what you already know about fitness, would you want a guy who weighs 420 and is all fat telling you what you need to do to get in shape? no. why?even if he knows what he's talking about, you can't look at him and tell. On the same token. you have a guy who, from what we know, doesn't fight, and he's giving fight advice to a guy who makes a living by fighting. even if what he says is valid, it can come across as having less credibility than it would if say, anderson silva had told him.

[PHILBERT]

doesn't the dude kissing the "chick" remind you of philbert?

I can't grow facial hair, so no, doesn't remind me at all of me. :)


i have a boxing record from my neighbourhood Community Club in my home town from waaaay back.

The Canadian boxing association has not got it, nor does any online resource.

The C.C has moved on and other boxing clubs overshadowed it but they still have their boxing program in one of the TRi-clubs they run under a different name now.
I am that old that there is zero video of me doing juvenile boxing.
I have not got any of my gear left from when I was a kid, no medals, no gloves, no dues card, no nothing.

I still have the boxing though. :D and that's good enough. lol

Problem with the wholes vids thing is that most people over 40 don't have that. And if you're like me and have lost all your possessions in your life through misfortune, then all that matters is that you still have the memories and hopefully the practices still.

Martial artists, and those who armchair around them, in this day and age of instant gratification in full media productions can't fathom quite often that that simply wasn't there for us older crowd.

Crap, we didn't even have a TV until I was 12! lol

Kids these days. all **** and vinegar. At first it was only vinegar though.... :p

Top it off, MJW isn't claiming like black belts in Judo or JiuJitsu or that he was a Muay Thai fighter. Hell he isn't even claiming to be a "fighter" or whatever. He has a black belt in TKD (oohhh, ahh) and TSD, plus several styles of Karate.

If he got a black belt in Kyokushin, he probably walked into a TKD school and was given a black belt there :eek:

To top it off he isn't claiming some extraordinary fight record. He just has a bunch of black belts in a few traditional striking arts. If he claimed he had a record of like say 50 and 0 in MMA bouts or San Shou then yeah, I could understand.

Or he could just go the way of Rickson and claim 500 and 0 and no one would question him.

[Yao Sing]

How many boxing coaches have a fight record? Would you take guitar lessons from a guy that never played in a successful band?

Do all the top level gymnastics coaches have awards from top level competitions?

I get what you're saying and agree to an extant but don't understand why MA has such strict requirements for instructors. And this video is just offering advice and pointers not full fledged instruction.

A math teacher just needs a degree, a black belt equivalant.

[PHILBERT]

How many boxing coaches have a fight record? Would you take guitar lessons from a guy that never played in a successful band?

Do all the top level gymnastics coaches have awards from top level competitions?

I get what you're saying and agree to an extant but don't understand why MA has such strict requirements for instructors. And this video is just offering advice and pointers not full fledged instruction.

A math teacher just needs a degree, a black belt equivalant.

Don't forget Football, Basketball and Baseball coaches aren't going to be ex-pro players. I don't see Troy Aikman coaching the Dallas Cowboys now (Lord knows they could use him).

Like that video a couple weeks ago that was posted over on the MMA forum, Steven Seagal with Anderson Silva. I didn't see Knifefighter over there flaming that thread.

[goju]

Like that video a couple weeks ago that was posted over on the MMA forum, Steven Seagal with Anderson Silva. I didn't see Knifefighter over there flaming that thread.


now he will LOL:D

[jmd161]

you have a guy who, from what we know, doesn't fight, and he's giving fight advice to a guy who makes a living by fighting. even if what he says is valid, it can come across as having less credibility than it would if say, anderson silva had told him.


That's funny!

Isn't this Anderson Silva taking advice from a actor with no fight experience here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaVDFW_o1cA

:confused:




Or he could just go the way of Rickson and claim 500 and 0 and no one would question him.

I find it funny that none of the guys who ask for video about everything or it never happened ever question this? :rolleyes:

[PHILBERT]

That's funny!

...



I find it funny that none of the guys who ask for video about everything or it never happened ever question this? :rolleyes:

Some do.

Though really the argument I came up with was rather weak, bringing Rickson up in a discussion he had little business to be in. Merely pointing out though that a difference between the 2 is MJW doesn't claim to be an MMA fighter or anything like that.

I didn't want to bring this up before, because I am not well versed in Karate. I do not know if there are major differences between styles (Using elbows and knees would not be something I'd consider to be a major difference) like in Kung Fu. Wing Chun for example is nothing like Choy Lay Fut. I do not know if the same can be said of Goju Ryu and Shotokan and Kyoshukin in terms of stances, etc.

However, and again someone who is more well versed in Karate is more than welcome to chime in and say "Philbert, you are wrong" and I will understand it, but, if someone trained really hard and actually got a black belt in Karate, just say Shotokan, would that make it easier for them to get a black belt in say Goju Ryu since it is also Karate? Or are some styles of Karate so incredibly different, and look absolutely unlike other styles, like Wing Chun vs Choy Lay Fut?

When browsing his styles on Wikipedia, it listed 5 striking styles. Shotokan, Goju Ryu, Kyoshukin, Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do. Everyone knows Tae Kwon Do is influenced from Karate, and Tang Soo Do as well. Even if the Koreans refuse to admit it. So I would imagine someone who achieves a high level rank in one Kyoshukin would have an easier time training in Goju Ryu or Shotokan.

The first guy I trained Muay Thai from was a black belt in TKD. He told me he got the black belt from the head instructor of the school when they went into business together, simply knowing the Muay Thai he just certified him as a Tae Kwon Do instructor then taught him the forms.

I am not saying this is the case with MJW, but again, he has black belts in 3 styles of Karate and 2 styles influenced by Karate. Being as he focuses so much on these styles of arts, wouldn't it make sense that he'd possibly advance more rapidly?

Other 2 being Wushu and Kobudo.

[Scott R. Brown]

Boxing and Muay Thai never "went stagnant".

Instead of arguing over MJW's credentials, how about discussing the CONTENT of the video?

Anyone who prefers to practice forms for MMA I recommend finding a good training dummy (http://www.realdoll.com/) to practice IN.....er I mean ON....er I mean WITH!!!!!

BTW: Link NOT FOR WORK!!!!!!!....you have been warned!:eek:

[jmd161]

Some do.

Though really the argument I came up with was rather weak, bringing Rickson up in a discussion he had little business to be in.

Could be I don't get around to enough threads but, I've never seen anything about Rickson questioned from anyone in the MMA world...

[goju]

Could be I don't get around to enough threads but, I've never seen anything about Rickson questioned from anyone in the MMA world...


oooh yeah alot of people make fun of his gajillion and 0 record. in the mma world

[Faruq]

I guess this mean Kimbo's still gonna be alright now that he's been "knocked out" (no pun intended,...well actually, pun intended) of MMA star contention, since he's on a movie set. I wonder a big slow wrestler like Brock Lesnar could avoid being knocked out in MMA, but a seasoned streetfighter like Kimbo got knocked out right off? Anyway, anyone know what movie they're on the set of?

[Frost]

I guess this mean Kimbo's still gonna be alright now that he's been "knocked out" (no pun intended,...well actually, pun intended) of MMA star contention, since he's on a movie set. I wonder a big slow wrestler like Brock Lesnar could avoid being knocked out in MMA, but a seasoned streetfighter like Kimbo got knocked out right off? Anyway, anyone know what movie they're on the set of?


maybe because one of them is a freak athlete and tries and takes the fight to where he knows hes good, and the other tried to stand and bang with guys better than him

oh and LMAO at calling lesnar slow, i dont like him but come on he is an athletic freak

[Frost]

Probably a Shotokan black belt. Notice how KF only said that he got his black belt? The guy has 7 black belts in different styles of Karate/Tae Kwon Do/Tang Soo Do.

He wouldn't have gotten a Kyokushin black belt at that age.

on his website he says Koykashin was his first style and got his first blackbelt at 12 then got other blackbelts in other styles

[Dragonzbane76]

I wonder a big slow wrestler like Brock Lesnar could avoid being knocked out in MMA

slow?? lolz

[Faruq]

maybe because one of them is a freak athlete and tries and takes the fight to where he knows hes good, and the other tried to stand and bang with guys better than him

oh and LMAO at calling lesnar slow, i dont like him but come on he is an athletic freak



Touché. Yes, that is a stereotype about wrestlers, not the fact with Lesnar. But still, Lesnar's game was wrestling so you'd think he'd be at a disadvantage. Whereas a veteran streetfighter should've had an advantage in theory. Not so.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Touché. Yes, that is a stereotype about wrestlers, not the fact with Lesnar. But still, Lesnar's game was wrestling so you'd think he'd be at a disadvantage. Whereas a veteran streetfighter should've had an advantage in theory. Not so.

Brock is a great athlete and has always trained with great atheltes and trainers.
Veteran "streefighters" fight unskilled people ( typically) and as soon as the face a trained fighter, their world comes crashing down ( typically).
Kimo lasted as long as he did because he had good trainers when he decided to compete in MMA.

[jmd161]

Veteran "streefighters" fight unskilled people ( typically) and as soon as they face a trained fighter, their world comes crashing down ( typically).
Kimo lasted as long as he did because he had good trainers when he decided to compete in MMA.

Exactly!


Kimbo biggest problem in MMA was he gassed too quickly! He was getting better with his ground game but, he usually gassed by the mid to late first round. I still think he had too much on his plate... He had to be slowed by too much thinking trying to digest all that was being thrown at him.

[David Jamieson]

"Koykashin"

Do you mean Kyokushinkai?

[Faruq]

There's plenty of evidence of Kimbo having plenty of full-contact fights.

I dont' think there is any evidence of Michael Jai White having done so.

BTW, having a BB in Kyokushin Karate doesn't necessarily mean someone actually has experience in full-contact fighting.

True, though the one advantage actors making money have is money and celebrity which allows them access we don't have to certain big name martial artists. For example Denzel's access to Jeff Imada for his training for "Book of Eli". I could never afford to go train personally with Jeff Imada or Dan Inosanto in private lessons, or probably even get scheduled in even if I wanted to. If they don't take the knocks and get the full contact experience it's still not necessarily going to help them though....

[TAO YIN]

He is not on Sherdog. What a wimp.

There is no web reference of him killing anyone barehanded. Wimp.

Knifefighter hasn't seen him fight. Pure wimp.

[SevenStar]

That's funny!

Isn't this Anderson Silva taking advice from a actor with no fight experience here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaVDFW_o1cA

:confused:



I find it funny that none of the guys who ask for video about everything or it never happened ever question this? :rolleyes:


I've met seagal and know several of his students. I know he has legit skill. I've just never posted on that thread. Personally, If I was silva, I wouldn't be training with seagal - not for fight prep. Now, if he just always wanted to learn aikido, that's one thing, but I wouldn't take it any further.

[SevenStar]

I find it funny that none of the guys who ask for video about everything or it never happened ever question this? :rolleyes:

that has been talked about here. If I remember correctly, it was knife who said the 500 and 0 thing was bunk.

[SevenStar]

When browsing his styles on Wikipedia, it listed 5 striking styles. Shotokan, Goju Ryu, Kyoshukin, Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do. Everyone knows Tae Kwon Do is influenced from Karate, and Tang Soo Do as well. Even if the Koreans refuse to admit it. So I would imagine someone who achieves a high level rank in one Kyoshukin would have an easier time training in Goju Ryu or Shotokan.


They will acknowledge that TSD has japanese influence. TKD was their attempt at making a sportive style that was expressly korean. There was at one time a huge political war between the heads of TSD, which is what prompted the split and creation of TKD, if I recall correctly. So, tkd has an indirect japanese influence as it is an offshoot of a korean style derived from a japanese style.

[PHILBERT]

on his website he says Koykashin was his first style and got his first blackbelt at 12 then got other blackbelts in other styles

Then yeah that one I would question

[jungle-mania]

Well, I am going to add fuel to the fire here and say this: Everyone in the world has something to share.

I've been in martial arts for 16 years, does that mean I am not qualified to say something slightly beyond the obvious? Does the corner of my world have to wait for another Cung Le before we can even talk about Sanda?

I teach Geography to students, but I am no Charles Darwin nor am I going to find some uncharted area in Africa. So does that mean they cannot learn Geography from me?

I watch my child play with her friends in the sandpit and I see how they squat to pick up things, I replicated the same action for my squats and I get better results, they are no physiotherapist, are they wrong in their squatting for not having graduated in Human Physiology major?

I am sorry, but I am not going to tell my 5 year old daughter she got no right to say that A is for Apple because she is not a qualified teacher.

Micheal Macdonald hired Tokey Hill to train him for K-1 in 2002 and won! So is Tokey Hill, a sports karetaka a fluk?

[Sardinkahnikov]

I watch my child play with her friends in the sandpit and I see how they squat to pick up things, I replicated the same action for my squats and I get better results, they are no physiotherapist, are they wrong in their squatting for not having graduated in Human Physiology major?


How so? How do they squat? Just curious.

[Lucas]

naturally.

[Frost]

Touché. Yes, that is a stereotype about wrestlers, not the fact with Lesnar. But still, Lesnar's game was wrestling so you'd think he'd be at a disadvantage. Whereas a veteran streetfighter should've had an advantage in theory. Not so.

not really, lesnar is used to fighting top level guys, and wrestling contains way more contact than people like to admit, crossfaces, hand offs etc all feel like punches

where as kimbo was fighting largly useless untrained guys

the strep up in level of competition was too great for him, for lesnar it wasn't

[Frost]

Brock is a great athlete and has always trained with great atheltes and trainers.
Veteran "streefighters" fight unskilled people ( typically) and as soon as the face a trained fighter, their world comes crashing down ( typically).
Kimo lasted as long as he did because he had good trainers when he decided to compete in MMA.

**** should have read this and saved myself the trouble of posting :)

[Faruq]

Well enough about Kimbo. I want to see Michael Jalil White fight now after all his instruction to Kimbo.

[taai gihk yahn]

I watch my child play with her friends in the sandpit and I see how they squat to pick up things, I replicated the same action for my squats and I get better results, they are no physiotherapist, are they wrong in their squatting for not having graduated in Human Physiology major?

absolutely! - kids have no business squatting without having first received proper instruction in it, and if I were you I would put a stop to it immediately - who knows what other dangerous, unsupervised activities your daughter has been emulating from her friends - throwing a ball? playing hopscotch? jumping rope? for pity's sake, get a handle on the situation before something really terrible happens, and your kid starts playing spontaneous pick-up games of dodgeball or ultimate frisbee!

if you don't believe me, just consider that I have a Masters of Science in Physical Therapy from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, and work full-time in pediatrics with children of all ages; as such, I work with children who luckily have not been able to figure out on their own how to skip, and have therefore avoided picking up any bad and even potentially harmful habits; fortunately, since I have a Masters of Science in Physical Therapy from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, when I teach them to skip they are afforded a rare opportunity to acquire the skill from a truly Evidence-Based Medicine perspective; (I chuckle at the other grown-ups and children who have "figured it out on their own" :rolleyes:, and are unable to appreciate that when I skip, because I have a Masters of Science in Physical Therapy from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, it's not at all the same as when they do it);

I will pray for you and your daughter's speedy recovery...:(

[Lucas]

it hurts!!!!!!!!!

[jmd161]

I've met seagal and know several of his students. I know he has legit skill. I've just never posted on that thread. Personally, If I was silva, I wouldn't be training with seagal - not for fight prep. Now, if he just always wanted to learn aikido, that's one thing, but I wouldn't take it any further.

Why not?

If he can teach you something to make you a better fighter... why would you not train with him? If Anderson Silva is training wit Seagal he obviously sees something Seagal can bring to his fight game!

I don't know... people always say they are open to new techniques or anything that can compliment their game, yet you say here you would not take Seagal's advice! I'm pretty sure you'd be open to any advice Anderson Silva gave you though...:confused:

I just don't get it...

[goju]

Exactly!


Kimbo biggest problem in MMA was he gassed too quickly! He was getting better with his ground game but, he usually gassed by the mid to late first round. I still think he had too much on his plate... He had to be slowed by too much thinking trying to digest all that was being thrown at him.


i think his knees are too banged up as well to make a good effort

[jmd161]

i think his knees are too banged up as well to make a good effort

I noticed his legs were considerably small compared to his upper body... I had a co-worker who looked like Arnold Schwarzenegger up top and Olive Oil below the waist.:confused:

It was so funny when he would wear short pants he was all this mass of ripped muscle up top and obviously never worked his legs.:D

[Yum Cha]

After catching up on this thread (Mr and Mrs Cha and little Yums had a holiday), well frankly, its been a revelation - it even drew the bombastic blade boy back to the boards.

You are all worthless and weak. First time my Daddy told me how to put up my dukes, first thing he said was, "now, don't telegraph." Gee, and my Daddy learned boxing in the Army! I guess the secret is out now!

I never realised this was one of the essential 'secrets' to striking, I grew up with it as a basic fundamental. Of course, the parlour trick does help get the message across, gotta pay that. But then again, a lot of fighting is tricks....

And anyhow, a solid touch up before a payload delivery is standard procedure.

Oh, yea - I also grew up in a universe where amateurs regularly beat professionals, so likewise, I am so totally shocked on that front, that I simply can't abide the rage!

Hey Knife, you and Kimbo are both old blokes, wanna give him a dance?

So, as opposed to ad hom arguments about people you don't know (I'm going with the odds, and hoping, given the notable exceptions already presented), why not comment on the fight science, which you do know?

So, back to post one - hand's up for who thinks this is bad advice, or wrong? Its not a complete style, not a condemnation of alternatives, simply a tip and and a tool to add to the box.

But as Sanjuro so aptly put, if you don't use a telegraph to fake and set up, you don't belong in there playing with the big boys.

What makes a top pro a top pro? The ability to learn and improve? So, if you are at the top, how do you learn? Crawl over the bodies of those in front of you, sure, but is that it?

Can someone not at your level teach you something? I think its foolish to think otherwise.

As foolish as it would be to think one piece is the whole puzzle.

[jungle-mania]

absolutely! - kids have no business squatting without having first received proper instruction in it, and if I were you I would put a stop to it immediately - who knows what other dangerous, unsupervised activities your daughter has been emulating from her friends - throwing a ball? playing hopscotch? jumping rope? for pity's sake, get a handle on the situation before something really terrible happens, and your kid starts playing spontaneous pick-up games of dodgeball or ultimate frisbee!

if you don't believe me, just consider that I have a Masters of Science in Physical Therapy from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, and work full-time in pediatrics with children of all ages; as such, I work with children who luckily have not been able to figure out on their own how to skip, and have therefore avoided picking up any bad and even potentially harmful habits; fortunately, since I have a Masters of Science in Physical Therapy from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, when I teach them to skip they are afforded a rare opportunity to acquire the skill from a truly Evidence-Based Medicine perspective; (I chuckle at the other grown-ups and children who have "figured it out on their own" :rolleyes:, and are unable to appreciate that when I skip, because I have a Masters of Science in Physical Therapy from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, it's not at all the same as when they do it);

I will pray for you and your daughter's speedy recovery...:(

HAHAHAHAHA! LMAO! BTW ouch!

That was really funny to read in the morning.

[jungle-mania]

naturally.

kudos, just like what my masters use to tell me, kids have the most natural way of breathing and actions. He told me when we train qigong and our basics, we ae focusing back to how we were like we were young.

I will say that if anyone wanted to observe this, please be aware that one might be branded a pedophile for staring at kids intently in playgrounds for long period of time and possibly be in a legal aftermath. Explaining that is your kungfu research to the judge might not cut it.

[Hardwork108]

We must remember that Kimbo, with all of his experience, which would be more than most people posting here, took the time to listen to Michael's advice. Meaning, that he saw something useful that he could learn from Mr Jalil.

The same is true with Anderson Silva and Steven Seagal.........

Just a thought........

[Faruq]

That's deep, bro.

[Frost]

We must remember that Kimbo, with all of his experience, which would be more than most people posting here, took the time to listen to Michael's advice. Meaning, that he saw something useful that he could learn from Mr Jalil.

The same is true with Anderson Silva and Steven Seagal.........

Just a thought........

or he was being polite and really thought something else...we will never know

[SevenStar]

Why not?

If he can teach you something to make you a better fighter... why would you not train with him? If Anderson Silva is training wit Seagal he obviously sees something Seagal can bring to his fight game!

I don't know... people always say they are open to new techniques or anything that can compliment their game, yet you say here you would not take Seagal's advice! I'm pretty sure you'd be open to any advice Anderson Silva gave you though...:confused:

I just don't get it...

it's a principle called specificity. even though tennis builds explosiveness and strong legs, I wouldn't train tennis to get ready to compete in the 100m dash. If I am prepping for an mma bout, I am training with mma guys, not tennis pros, aikidoka, home run kings, etc.

perfect example, aikido focuses greatly on wrist locking, no?

1. chasing arms is bad for mma
2. with all of the tape and gloves, the wrist is being held in a straightened position - wrist locking will likely be harder.

the silva / seagal vid show wrist locking - probably wouldn't work well. I think there is also an app where he hits the base of the neck - illegal in mma. so now, he'd be training techniques outside of the allowed skillset - he'd be training to get himself DQ'ed.

[Hardwork108]

or he was being polite and really thought something else...we will never know

I doubt that any of those two men would be that polite not to let their true emotions out.

You don't speak Portugues, so you did not catch it, but Silva seemed impressed by Seagal's abilities.

As for Kimbo, then I believe that he appreciated the benefits of one minimizing one's telegraphing of given attacks. It just makes sense that a fighter would be interested in any additional abilities and information.

[taai gihk yahn]

It just makes sense that a fighter would be interested in any additional abilities and information.

unless, of course, it came from an "irrelevant" style...;)

[jmd161]

the silva / seagal vid show wrist locking - probably wouldn't work well.

I agree with all the tape and gloves probably wouldn't...



I think there is also an app where he hits the base of the neck - illegal in mma. so now, he'd be training techniques outside of the allowed skillset - he'd be training to get himself DQ'ed.

My friend who speaks Portuguese said in the clip Seagal asked if the technique to the base of the neck was legal and Silva replied yes! :confused:

[Hardwork108]

unless, of course, it came from an "irrelevant" style...;)

All sport fighters should take in whatever that can win them their belts and medals, even if it is from irrelevant styles.;)

IMHO, both Kimbo and Silva saw something useful in what was being shown to them and it is unfair to assume that they were just being polite.

I am referring to Frost's "profound" observation.:D