If you could pick any ONE form to have in your system, which would it be?

[SevenStar]

Okay, here is a quote from another thread:



It is said that in the old days one practiced a single kata for 5 years. So, it seems that we don't need that many katas or forms, to start with, just key ones, to master and "explore".


so, if you opened a school, focused it on drilling and fighting and decided to teach only ONE form, which one would it be and why?

[SPJ]

each style has its repertoire of open hand forms and weapon forms.

depending on the students

1. xing yi: 5 element fist or wu xing: pi beng zuan pao heng.

some would just practice san ti shi and pi for years before anything else

guo used half step beng fist and defeated a lot of people.

2. ba gua: single palm change

some would just practice standing in posture and dan huan zhang for years.

liu feng chun practiced dan huan zhang for 3 years and used it to defeat a lot of people

3. tai chi: cloud hand

4. tong bei: 5 element palms

5. ba Ji: liang yi ding and xiao jia.

6. long fist: tan tui 12 roads.

once a dude only used 1 road and defeated all challengers.

in short:

quality over quantity.

:cool:

[uki]

i would choose to have the form that was not the form. :D

[taai gihk yahn]

if I was of the opinion that kata training for fighting was important and if I HAD to pick one, it would be Tekki / Naihanchi 1 & 2 (under the assumtion that they were originally actually part of one form); basically because it's a very cut-to-the chase set of principles that encompass a wide-range of stand-up skills (athough, of course, there are a bunch of ground-fighting techniques hidden in there as well; yes, deeply hidden; verrrrrrry deeply...:rolleyes:))

a close second would be Bassai Dai, it's also got a lot of neat "stuff" in it;

btw, when I practice these forms, I "TCMA-ize" them, in terms of the quality of the movement, and if I may, I daresay that I practice them "internally" (ugh, yeah, I know...); so it's a weird sort of blend...

(btw, Ross knows I'm kidding, he knows that the ONLY form I have ever practiced is Bik Da...:D:D:D:)

[TenTigers]

hmmm...
SPM-Sam Bo Ging
Hung-Ga-Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen
Wing Chun-108 Mook Yan Jong
Karate Bassai, Sanchin/samjien

[bawang]

longfist 8 mother fist: straight , cross, uppercut, haymaker, hook, chop, overhand, backfist
five elements: forward , back, left , right, down

[Yum Cha]

If by system, you mean there are other training elements involved, and the mind boggles at the options there, and there was one form that you thought would bring something to the other mass of good fighting techniques?

Gau bo Twi

(said with all the myopic self centered perspective you'd expect from a Pak Mei guy.)

[YouKnowWho]

I had combined 10 Longfist forms into one. I named it "長拳摘要 - Longfist Summary" (similar to the prey mantis summary form). Until one day I just realized that instead of having to train 10 forms, I now have to train 11 forms.

I had created a SC form. Until one day that I found out some people treated it as a performance art. I regretted my creation since then.

We don't need forms. Even one form is too many. All we need is drills.

You can always image that you have to fight against 4 opponents on 4 sides of you. You attack one opponent on one side and then attack other opponent on different side. If you always use different move (or combo) for each attack, you can train 4 different moves (or 4 different combos) if you go through 1 rep, 8 moves (or 8 different combos) if you go through 2 reps, and 12 moves (or 12 different combos) if you go through 3 reps ... If you repeat this kind of training for a period of time (3 months, 6 months, 1 year, ...), you then change your rep into a complete different set of moves. This way, you can train a lot of different moves (or combos) through your life time without even have to train a single form. At the end, you may be able to "perform" as many forms as any form collector can do, also you will have excellent footwork.

What advantage do you have by training this way? You will never have to be burdened by forms (I have learned over 50 forms in my life so I do know what I'm talking about here).

[SevenStar]

I had combined 10 Longfist forms into one. I named it "長拳摘要 - Longfist Summary" (similar to the prey mantis summary form). Until one day I just realized that instead of having to train 10 forms, I now have to train 11 forms.

I had created a SC form. Until one day that I found out some people treated it as a performance art. I regretted my creation since then.

We don't need forms. Even one form is too many. All we need is drills.

You can always image that you have to fight against 4 opponents on 4 sides of you. You attack one opponent on one side and then attack other opponent on different side. If you always use different move (or combo) for each attack, you can train 4 different moves (or 4 different combos) if you go through 1 rep, 8 moves (or 8 different combos) if you go through 2 reps, and 12 moves (or 12 different combos) if you go through 3 reps ... If you repeat this kind of training for a period of time (3 months, 6 months, 1 year, ...), you then change your rep into a complete different set of moves. This way, you can train a lot of different moves (or combos) through your life time without even have to train a single form. At the end, you may be able to "perform" as many forms as any form collector can do.

What advantage do you have by training this way? You will never have to be burdened by forms.

so basically, all kung fu should be trained like ross' school, or perhaps like SC?

[taai gihk yahn]

Karate Bassai
sad / funny Bassai dai story: I learned it originally from my moo duk kwan sabumnim years ago - it's not a disgusting version either, although a lot of the nuance has been filtered out, and of course his understanding of the apps is very superficial - anyway, there's one move that looks like you do a "down block" in horse stance and then turn 180 deg to do something else - off course, the move is actually a low hammer fist done to someone after you've swept them - so, one time I was visiting my old school and was talking about stuff w/some of the BB's I had "come up with" and one of the relative newbie BB's was waxing philosophical about stuff he basically knew nothing about - I wasn't going to say anything, but the senior BB rolled his eyes and gave me a "go ahead Chris", so I asked him, in Bassai, what's the app for that move - so he was like "well, it's a down block"; so I was like, "well, why would you do a block and then turn around to face another direction w/out doing a counter?", so he says, I swear to God, "well, maybe after you do the block, the guy gets discouraged and goes away"....:eek::eek::eek:
to make matters worse, I showed him the correct app - his response was, "well, ok, that's one way of looking at it...":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
it was a sad, sad day for TMA's...

[lkfmdc]

so basically, all kung fu should be trained like ross' school



you know, now someone is going to send you a nasty PM :p

[SevenStar]

you know, now someone is going to send you a nasty PM :p

LOL, I'll probably get several.

[taai gihk yahn]

so basically, all kung fu should be trained like ross' school, or perhaps like SC?

if everyone trained like Dave, TCMA would be very boring - drill basics, drill basics, drill basics; conditioning, conditioning, conditioning; hit pads, hit pads, hit pads; apply against resisting opponent, apply against resisting opponent, apply against resisting opponent; rinse; repeat;

[taai gihk yahn]

you know, now someone is going to send you a nasty PM :p

what, r u afraid it will cut down on the volume u get? don't b so selfish, share a bit...

[YouKnowWho]

so basically, all kung fu should be trained like ross' school, or perhaps like SC?
It's always fun to train CMA by using different methods. Every 2 or 3 years, I would like to try something new.


if everyone trained like Dave, TCMA would be very boring.
Instead of training the same CMA forms year after year, now for every 3 months, 6 months, or 1 year, you have to come up something complete new and different, that's more fun and challenge IMO.

[SevenStar]

sad / funny Bassai dai story: I learned it originally from my moo duk kwan sabumnim years ago - it's not a disgusting version either, although a lot of the nuance has been filtered out, and of course his understanding of the apps is very superficial - anyway, there's one move that looks like you do a "down block" in horse stance and then turn 180 deg to do something else - off course, the move is actually a low hammer fist done to someone after you've swept them - so, one time I was visiting my old school and was talking about stuff w/some of the BB's I had "come up with" and one of the relative newbie BB's was waxing philosophical about stuff he basically knew nothing about - I wasn't going to say anything, but the senior BB rolled his eyes and gave me a "go ahead Chris", so I asked him, in Bassai, what's the app for that move - so he was like "well, it's a down block"; so I was like, "well, why would you do a block and then turn around to face another direction w/out doing a counter?", so he says, I swear to God, "well, maybe after you do the block, the guy gets discouraged and goes away"....:eek::eek::eek:
to make matters worse, I showed him the correct app - his response was, "well, ok, that's one way of looking at it...":rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
it was a sad, sad day for TMA's...

One day I was sparring with a guy and some of the other students were watching. after we finished I was explaining some stuff about boxing to him, and one of the senior students interrupts and says "boxing isn't a martial art - they just stand there and slug each other." I was like wtf? This same guy also said that with three months of working the hidden grappling in his style, he could probably take out ANY grappler. Ironically, this guy now trains in Judo...

[taai gihk yahn]

This same guy also said that with three months of working the hidden grappling in his style, he could probably take out ANY grappler. Ironically, this guy now trains in Judo...
well, maybe the "hidden" grappling in his style actually spelled out the phrase "go study judo u dumb-asz muther-fu(ker!"

[lkfmdc]

I dont' know which is worse, the "hidden grapplng" in some TMA or the students who are oblivious to the grappling that DOES exist

I was in a Hung-like style school, the guys were doing what was clearly a sweeping technique (in their FORMS, not with partners! heck no, not with a partner) and a prospective student comes in. Mr Dai Si Hing tells him "in this style we don't have an throws, trips or takedowns" and I swear to G'd I am starring at the ENTIRE CLASS drilling a takedown in their first form :eek:

[SevenStar]

okay, so on the path we are taking right now...

youknowwho - would you keep or eliminate stance training?


ross - when you drill techniques, are they fight based - like clinch work, slipping, countering, etc. or do you take movements from the forms you know and drill those, or both?

[lkfmdc]

ross - when you drill techniques, are they fight based - like clinch work, slipping, countering, etc. or do you take movements from the forms you know and drill those, or both?

We warm up "shadowing" the techniques, ie in the air

Then we do them on focus mitts, shields, bags, small woodland creatures, you know

Then we drill them with people.... random strangers off the street

Then we rinse and repeat

[YouKnowWho]

youknowwho - would you keep or eliminate stance training?
Of course not. The Longfist 8 basic stance (horse, golden rooster, bow-arrow, striking tiger, empty, monkey, twisting, 7 stars) are the building block for all MA styles. I have eliminated the "twisting stance (stealing step)" because it has no combat value.

[lkfmdc]

Of course not. The Longfist 8 basic stance are the building block for all MA. I have eliminated the "twisting stance (stealing step)" because it has no combat value.

stance = footwork

footwork is learned DOING THE TECHNIQUES

to learn footwork without context is folly IMHO

and strangely, because I usuallly agree with youknowho I disagree on the stealing step, it is the "back step" in wrestling and the set up for throws

how does youknowwho do shuai chiao without the back step? :confused:

[bawang]

Of course not. The Longfist 8 basic stance (horse, golden rooster, bow-arrow, striking tiger, empty, monkey, twisting stance, 7 stars) are the building block for all MA styles. I have eliminated the "twisting stance (stealing step)" because it has no combat value.

its for hip throws

i think stance training is useless today because traditionally youre supposed to be doing it with weights.

old kung fu sayings about horse stance building leg strength , they were talking about holding 100 to 300 pound weights in horse stance.

if u dont do horse stance with weights dont do it at all

[SevenStar]

We warm up "shadowing" the techniques, ie in the air

Then we do them on focus mitts, shields, bags, small woodland creatures, you know

Then we drill them with people.... random strangers off the street

Then we rinse and repeat

right, but apps / techniques from the forms or is it more "glorified kickboxing" style?

like the guys you saw doing the takedown in their form, though they were oblivious to it - would you have them working the segment of the form in the air, then on each other? I guess what I'm wondering is, since you've said that what you teach comes straight from the forms, do the students know that? do they know that technique x is section x from the xxx form?

[SevenStar]

Of course not. The Longfist 8 basic stance (horse, golden rooster, bow-arrow, striking tiger, empty, monkey, twisting, 7 stars) are the building block for all MA styles. I have eliminated the "twisting stance (stealing step)" because it has no combat value.

some SC guys from your line showed me the stealing step as a transition / set up to throws. Why don't you think it has value?

[David Jamieson]

iron thread.

[YouKnowWho]

how does youknowwho do shuai chiao without the back step? :confused:
This is a good question. When you spin your body by using your twisting stance (stealing step), your opponent can take advantage on your body rotation. If he spins with you, you will end on the ground with your opponent on top of you.


its for hip throws
In order to prevent this from happening, When you apply a "hip throw", you land your right foot in front of your opponent's left foot (instead of at the equal triangle position in relate to your opponent's feet). This way, your opponent will have less chance to sweep you. You then advance your back left foot behind your right foot. Now your left foot is at the proper position (in front of your opponent's left foot) but your right foot is not. You now move your right foot in front of your opponent's right foot. When you do that, your waist hold can force your opponent's body to bend toward his right. This will collapse his body structure so he will have less chance to counter you. Now both of your feet are already on the right spots but you are still facing your opponent and your body hasn't turned yet. You then turn and apply your "hip throw". Since your feet are already at the right spots and your opponent's body has been bent. You have replaced a "twisting stance (stealing step)" by a 90 degree angle footwork and you have reduced your risk to the minimum.


some SC guys from your line showed me the stealing step as a transition / set up to throws. Why don't you think it has value?
It's called "evolution (or water down :))". The "twisting stance (stealing step)" is just a simple "turn" with 90 degree angle footwork. It's faster and less risky.

[taai gihk yahn]

ross - when you drill techniques, are they fight based - like clinch work, slipping, countering, etc. or do you take movements from the forms you know and drill those, or both?

right, but apps / techniques from the forms or is it more "glorified kickboxing" style?
from what I have seen, Dave does both - in other words he has absorbed stuff from non-TCMA sources because they r of value, at the same time I have seen him show stuff directly out of forms, taking the relevant principles and applying them in a "live" context


small woodland creatures...
starting with raccoons, then beavers, muskrats and finally voles...


its for hip throws
i think stance training is useless today because traditionally youre supposed to be doing it with weights.
old kung fu sayings about horse stance building leg strength , they were talking about holding 100 to 300 pound weights in horse stance
I want to weep for joy when I read stuff like this because it just cuts the legs out from underneath those people who think that "old school" kung fu training was about doing your forms and contemplating ur naval...

[taai gihk yahn]

This is a good question. When you spin your body by using your twisting stance (stealing step), your opponent can take advantage on your body rotation. If he spins with you, you will be end on the ground with your opponent on top of you. In order to prevent this from happening, When you apply a "hip throw", you land your right foot in front of your opponent's left foot instead of at the triangle position in relate to your opponent's feet. This way, your opponent will have less chance to sweep you. You then advance your back left foot behind your right foot. Now your left foot is at the proper position (in front of your opponent's left foot) but your right foot is not. You now move your right foot in front of your opponent's right foot. When you do that, your waist hold can force your opponent's body to bend toward his right. This will collapse his body structure so he will have less chance to counter you. Now both of your foot is already on the right spots but you are still facing your opponent and your body hasn't turned yet. You then turn and apply your "hip throw". Since your feet are already at the right spots and your opponent's body has been bent. You have replaced a "twisting stance (stealing step)" by a 90 degree angle footwork and you have reduced your risk to the minimum. IMO, this is the evolution (or water down :)) version of "hip throw".
good god - a well-thought out analysis in context of TCMA - this man should be bronzed!

[bawang]

You have replaced a "twisting stance (stealing step)" by a 90 degree angle footwork and you have reduced your risk to the minimum.


hey man stealing step is good sometime cuz its fast, and sometimes hard to see. the 90% footwork is called shuffle step they both are good.


but i think what ur doing is right tho man.if u cant get something to work forget it its no big deal.



I want to weep for joy when I read stuff like this because it just cuts the legs out from underneath those people who think that "old school" kung fu training was about doing your forms and contemplating ur naval...

if they like navel focusing maybe they can try other esoteric martial excercises too, like taking medicinal opium and demonic possession. its great for self confidence

[SevenStar]

In order to prevent this from happening, When you apply a "hip throw", you land your right foot in front of your opponent's left foot (instead of at the equal triangle position in relate to your opponent's feet). This way, your opponent will have less chance to sweep you. You then advance your back left foot behind your right foot. Now your left foot is at the proper position (in front of your opponent's left foot) but your right foot is not. You now move your right foot in front of your opponent's right foot. When you do that, your waist hold can force your opponent's body to bend toward his right. This will collapse his body structure so he will have less chance to counter you. Now both of your feet are already on the right spots but you are still facing your opponent and your body hasn't turned yet. You then turn and apply your "hip throw". Since your feet are already at the right spots and your opponent's body has been bent. You have replaced a "twisting stance (stealing step)" by a 90 degree angle footwork and you have reduced your risk to the minimum.


It's called "evolution (or water down :))". The "twisting stance (stealing step)" is just a simple "turn" with 90 degree angle footwork. It's faster and less risky.


so you do it the way a judo guy does it? not that there's anything wrong with that...

[YouKnowWho]

so you do it the way a judo guy does it? not that there's anything wrong with that...

I don't know any Judo so I can't comment on it. I think you are talking about "cover step - move one leg in front of the other leg (the opposite of the stealing step - move one leg behind the other leg)" that you move your left foot in front of your opponent's left foot (while your right foot is still behind of you). You then advance your back right foot, over your left knee, and end in front of your opponent's right leg. In both "shuffle step" and "cover step", since your legs are not "crossed", you will have less chance to be swept.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm

This is the traditional "equal triangle" footwork.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/judo-koshi-waza-o-goshi-full-hip-throw/2764076191

This footwork is risky. Your opponent will have perfect "angle" and perfect "distance" to use his left foot to sweep your right leg the moment you land that foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqLGjRU2kr0

[lkfmdc]

I may not be seeing this correctly, but it just sounds like "leg blocking" which was another type of Shuai Chiao footwork?

[YouKnowWho]

The "leg blocking" can use the same footwork too. Instead of "crossing" your leg, you land your back foot next to your front foot (no crossing). You can even hop, the moment that you back foot land at the same spot as your front foot, the moment that your front foot land at the spot that you want (it's like jumping kick that while your left foot is still in the air, your right foot already kick out). This can reduce "1, 2" into just "1" (the CON is you may be over commit).

[lkfmdc]

The "leg blocking" can use the same footwork too. Instead of "crossing" your leg, you land your back foot next to your front foot (no crossing). You can even hop, the moment that you back foot land at the same spot as your front foot, the moment that your front foot land at the spot that you want (it's like jumping kick that while your left foot is still in the air, your right foot already kick out). This can reduce "1, 2" into just "1" (the CON is you may be over commit).

oh, ok, now I understand

well, truth be known, THIS is how we do now, not the "stylized" with the knee in knee twisted stance. I thought "how can you throw if you don't turn" but now I see what you are saying

This is actually sambo trick also (to jump)

[goju]

i would pick sanchin

[Dragonzbane76]

LOL, I'll probably get several.

I only get them from the crazies that forget to take their meds. on a daily basis. Nothing says love like a PM of obsenities and poorly scripted wording that makes no sense.

[SevenStar]

I don't know any Judo so I can't comment on it. I think you are talking about "cover step - move one leg in front of the other leg (the opposite of the stealing step - move one leg behind the other leg)" that you move your left foot in front of your opponent's left foot (while your right foot is still behind of you). You then advance your back right foot, over your left knee, and end in front of your opponent's right leg. In both "shuffle step" and "cover step", since your legs are not "crossed", you will have less chance to be swept.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ogoshi.htm

This is the traditional "equal triangle" footwork.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/judo-koshi-waza-o-goshi-full-hip-throw/2764076191

This footwork is risky. Your opponent will have perfect "angle" and perfect "distance" to use his left foot to sweep your right leg the moment you land that foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqLGjRU2kr0

it is also a set up for a sacrifice throw called tani otoshi.

[SevenStar]

oh, ok, now I understand

well, truth be known, THIS is how we do now, not the "stylized" with the knee in knee twisted stance. I thought "how can you throw if you don't turn" but now I see what you are saying

This is actually sambo trick also (to jump)

oh, like a jump turn while going into a drop seionage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezlE7fjoxT0

[lkfmdc]

Sort of back on topic, here are some of the throws/takedowns we teach

I am sure most will be very familiar to youknowwho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Rk7q_ZDU0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbUfdBkc-9A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmTEtIjExxk

[Faruq]

Okay, here is a quote from another thread:





so, if you opened a school, focused it on drilling and fighting and decided to teach only ONE form, which one would it be and why?

How 'bout Gau Bo Tui.

[lkfmdc]

heh heh... speaking of throws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djdy_fhvZuM

[David Jamieson]

heh heh... speaking of throws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djdy_fhvZuM

Ha! You will legislate in favour of teh bill my staff has written!!

No!!!

Hi Yah!

lol hilarious. The batman toss was awesome.

[SevenStar]

I like the tai otoshi he attempted afterward. speaking of tai otoshi, that is similar to one of the throws I was shown that a stealing step comes in handy for.

[YouKnowWho]

here are some of the throws/takedowns we teach.

The University of Texas at Austin SC team had used this move to defeat the Ohio State University SC team two years in a role (1983 and 1984). It's similar to the wrestling or BJJ "single leg" but not quite the same.

http://johnswang.com/Paul_knee_seize.wmv


I like the tai otoshi he attempted afterward. speaking of tai otoshi, that is similar to one of the throws I was shown that a stealing step comes in handy for.
The Jian Guo high school SC club that I attended used this move as the "bread and butter" throw. The leg move is the same as tai otoshi. The only difference is the "head lock".

http://johnswang.com/lost_root.wmv

[SPJ]

Both YKW and I attended the same high school.

But he is way senior than me.

:cool:

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I would take all my favorite and most successful techniques, combine them with my favorite Qigong's and make a single form out of them.

If I had to pick a single form form my system, it would be the Lao Hong Quan set as it is what I described above, only made by the systems founder when he developed it. Back then it was the only form the art had and it contained the whole style in 108 steps.

Later a couple other things got added, but even then, there are still only a handfull of them anyway and they really don't seem to be much more than different combo's of the same techniques found in the first one.

[YouKnowWho]

If you want to select just one form, that form must contain the following:

- 10 different hand and fist strikes (jab, hook, upper cut, ...).
- 10 different elbows (upward, downward, straight, ...),
- 10 different knees (upward, 45 degree, flying knee, ...).
- 20 different kicks (front kick, side kick, round house kick, ...),
- 50 different locks (wrist lock, elbow lock, shoulder lock, ...),
- 60 different categories of throws (sweep, block, hook, ...),
- ? different ground skills (arm bar, leg bar, choke, ...).

There are just too much information to be included in just one form and the footwork, set up, entering strategy, ... are not even included yet (the number 10, 20, 50, ... are approximate numbers).

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Why do you need so much? Boxers know like 8 moves and are phenomenal fighters.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why do you need so much? Boxers know like 8 moves and are phenomenal fighters.

The main reason MA systems have many moves and techniques is because they take into account different body types, personalitites and such, it is up to the individual to figure out what works best for him/her.
Even in boxing we see that, boxers VS "brawlers", the difference is that in boxing what changes isn't the technqiues used but HOW and what priority they are used, which is typical of systems with limited techniques.

[Lucas]

I would pick out a favorite weapon form. I dont need any empty hand forms in my training. while i hang on to a couple, i know i dont need them, i keep them because i like them.

i dont need a weapon form either, but if i were keeping one i would keep a weapon form for fun.

i also find watching an excellent weapon dance much more enthralling than a empty hand one. with live a weapon of course.

[Lucas]

often ive noticed people think they need to master EVERYTHING they learn, rather than finding what is best for them and dropping the material that doesnt suit them personally. why practice that kick you will NEVER get right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

often ive noticed people think they need to master EVERYTHING they learn, rather than finding what is best for them and dropping the material that doesnt suit them personally. why practice that kick you will NEVER get right?

Well, we develop our best qualities and fight with them, but we don't neglect what we need work on.
That said, working on head kicks and the splits when you are 5-5 and 190lbs of muscle and have limited time, may not be the best use of your resources and time.

[bawang]

how u get so many muscle????
u cheet u use sterod
CHEETOR

[sanjuro_ronin]

how u get so many muscle????
u cheet u use sterod
CHEETOR

Dude, it was an example.
And no, you don't need steroids to get that big, you only need them if you wanna do it real fast and get small testicles.

[Lucas]

Well, we develop our best qualities and fight with them, but we don't neglect what we need work on.
That said, working on head kicks and the splits when you are 5-5 and 190lbs of muscle and have limited time, may not be the best use of your resources and time.

thats what im talking about. and part of the problem with form work imo. esp when you have people who know way to many forms. they will never get all that material down to a usable degree. a performable degree certainly (but then thats the curse of performance. are you a performer or a fighter? at what point is someone simply an encyclopidia of techniques to share later but never able to use effectively?), but not to the extent that a lot of the material would even be used in a real fight. i definately understand working your weak points, but sometimes weak points are just dead ends.

[bawang]

dude, it was an example.
And no, you don't need steroids to get that big, you only need them if you wanna do it real fast and get small testicles.

cheets
CHEETOR

wait. if u take testosterone u get small balls. then if u take estrogen u get big balls?

[sanjuro_ronin]

thats what im talking about. and part of the problem with form work imo. esp when you have people who know way to many forms. they will never get all that material down to a usable degree. a performable degree certainly (but then thats the curse of performance. are you a performer or a fighter? at what point is someone simply an encyclopidia of techniques to share later but never able to use effectively?), but not to the extent that a lot of the material would even be used in a real fight. i definately understand working your weak points, but sometimes weak points are just dead ends.

A valid point, we develop the weak points but not at the expense of the strong ones.
Some say that we are only as strong as our weakest link and that is valid, but that also means we must be AWARE of that link.
In other words, if grappling is a weak link then you need to work on it and work on it to keep the fight at striking, NOT to become a grappler.
That would be catering to our weakness, something that many people do, though far more tend to ignore their weakness which is far worse.

[Lucas]

That would be catering to our weakness, something that many people do, though far more tend to ignore their weakness which is far worse.

catering to the weakness. thanks for that thought process. i havent looked at it like that yet.

[sanjuro_ronin]

catering to the weakness. thanks for that thought process. i havent looked at it like that yet.

Look at it this way, when you fight do you fight to your strong suit or weaknesses?

That would be like a striker trying to grapple a grappler,trying to beat him at his own game.
Instead he should train grappling NOT to grapple, but to develop the tools to keep it from getting to a grappling stage and to keep it in HIS area of expertise.

[YouKnowWho]

Why do you need so much? Boxers know like 8 moves and are phenomenal fighters.

You may master a set of "door guarding moves". The rest are just "general moves". Even if you may never use "flying knee" in your life. If you train it, at least you have better chance to defend against it.

[Lucas]

to what degree do you think one should train 'general moves', in such that how often should one 'brush up' on things like this? or if you train it for a decent time and learn the technique, learn how to defend it etc. how often should one revisit such things?

[YouKnowWho]

to what degree do you think one should train 'general moves', in such that how often should one 'brush up' on things like this? or if you train it for a decent time and learn the technique, learn how to defend it etc. how often should one revisit such things?
It's very difficult to say how much training will be proper. If you spend too much time in it, you won't have time to train your "door guarding moves" (after all that's your true combat skill). I prefer to drill my "door guarding moves" 60 reps (one side only) and "general moves" 20 reps (both side - 10 on each side). So the ration is about 6 : 1.

[Lucas]

thanks, im going to do that.

[ManilaCrane]

One form? hmmm, i know! Tiger Crane!

[MightyB]

a form created as an introductory form for Mantis at the Chin Woo. It was created by LGY and was called Sub Sa Lo.

Everyone who trains that form hates it and can't wait to move on. I recently realized the genius of that form. It embodies pretty much all of 7* Mantis.

[SevenStar]

a form created as an introductory form for Mantis at the Chin Woo. It was created by LGY and was called Sub Sa Lo.

Everyone who trains that form hates it and can't wait to move on. I recently realized the genius of that form. It embodies pretty much all of 7* Mantis.


looked for it on youtube... translate that.

[SevenStar]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-53850.html

after reading that, I'll look for sap sei lo

[Yum Cha]

I find there is a distinction between forms that are 'higher level' for lack of better description, and 'regular' forms that are techniques, for the most part.

San Chen, Sam Bo Kuen, Jik Bo Kuen, and there must be so many others.

Forms like this give you body mechanic, not techniques, IMHO. Fish vs Fishing Pole.

[MightyB]

looked for it on youtube... translate that.

It's not going to be on Youtube unless I get off my arse and do it myself. People consider it too low level and not pretty to demonstrate it on the internet. I've been toying around with the idea of pulling sections out of it and then demonstrating why I think it's great... cool thing is that a student can "live" drill pretty much each technique from the moment they're taught a new section.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You may master a set of "door guarding moves". The rest are just "general moves". Even if you may never use "flying knee" in your life. If you train it, at least you have better chance to defend against it.

A gem people, read it, understand it !

[HumbleWCGuy]

Since all the hand forms in WC are considered to be part of a superform I will take that one. They are practical, to the point and don't take weeks and months to learn.

[Shaolin]

I couldn't pick just one set. In Shaolin all has a purpose and has value that's why we have so many, each one has an underlining concept to learn. Some days I feel like teaching one, some days another, but know one set is greater than the rest. I believe the same goes for martial arts themselves. No one art is the "best".

To limit yourself to one set or one art is to restrict yourself of growth and evolution.

[Violent Designs]

its for hip throws

i think stance training is useless today because traditionally youre supposed to be doing it with weights.

old kung fu sayings about horse stance building leg strength , they were talking about holding 100 to 300 pound weights in horse stance.

if u dont do horse stance with weights dont do it at all

today we have very sound techniques for weightlifting to develop strength.

I am for doing, whichever is the most effective/productive. :)

CMA is not dead it's practitioners are.