Fighting Stance Differences in Kung Fu and Kickboxing

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Since it is often claimed that many of us Kung Fu stylists are glorified kickboxers, please elaborate on the fighting stance you most often use when sparring or fighting, and differences, if any, in the fighting stances of these two styles.

I personally fight orthodox most of the time, hands up by my head, thumb and hand tucked on my right. A comfortable spring stance with equal weight on both legs for throwing and checking kicks. I also like to switch to southpaw and lead with a side thrust, roundhouse or hook kick because that is my power leg.

Since there are several Kung Fu fighting stances I will use for example what my Sifu used. He used Mantis often with hands extended out, spring stance similiar to what I used above, and used trapping and sticky hands. It worked well for him, I was never able to use it like him but did implement those techniques into my training.

Also one must take into account the differences in sparring with boxing gloves or MMA style or fingerless gloves or bare handed such as in Kyokushin.

Please feel free to detail sparring techniques and how you implement them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Legs comfortable and elbows down, the rest is fluid.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Legs comfortable and elbows down, the rest is fluid.

Absolutely. The only thing I would add that I forgot to say too is chin tucked, learned the hard way once what a solid uppercut can do:o

[sanjuro_ronin]

Absolutely. The only thing I would add that I forgot to say too is chin tucked, learned the hard way once what a solid uppercut can do:o

Yeah, tuck the chin and "roll in" the shoulders.
It's a given really but always good to repeat it.

[SPJ]

1. xing yi: san ti shi

2. tai chi: high horse stance with 60 degree facing

3. wu zu quan: many, tomb tablet stance (most common)

4. shuai jiao/judo: lower stance with both hand forward ready to grab

5. tong bei: inviting/lead hand palm or yin shou zhang

6. ba gua: high horse stance ready to step to the side or green dragon extending claws

7. mantis: tang lang bu chan and many others

--

as pointed out, once the fighting starts, the stance is changed

once fighting stops or pauses, go back to the defensive or ready to attack stance.

[bawang]

I personally fight orthodox most of the time, hands up by my head, thumb and hand tucked on my right. A comfortable spring stance with equal weight on both legs


there is no difference between north kung fu fighting stance from western boxing. spj is talking out of his fat ass
all kung fu fight with variations of 5/5 3/7 and 7/3

[SevenStar]

I fight out of a crane stance. :eek:

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I fight out of a crane stance. :eek:

SevenStar's last tournament victory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W_QFCQYac8

[TenTigers]

as Sanjuro and Iron Eagle said, with the elbows in, my upper arms are free to "float" -rear hand can be by the cheek, chin, lead hand can be high, low, or mid.
I train my guys first from a boxer's guard, until they have ingrained in them the one hand protecting their head while punching with the other. Then they are taught the various "bye jongs" and can then move freely.
Feet vary between a 45 degree horse (rear foot at 5:00) and a closer stance ala boxing, muay thai, SPM.
Always moving-hands, feet, position.

[Dragonzbane76]

I have discussed this with eagle76 before about the differences between boxing and traditional through kickboxing to muay thai stance.

Boxers stance is closed more so than the others comparably for kicking purposes of course.

wrestler/grappler stance more open for shot countering and sprawls.

for me being a mixture I like my stance to shift back and forth between. I have a weird stance in that i'm a righty but fight south paw. But that doesn't mean I don't shift to left a good bit.

Sparring people and they always comment that I switch up a good bit between south to orthadox.

just something I've always done and I seem to do alright with it. Of course I've had trainers get frustrated with me for shifting all the time. :)

[David Jamieson]

boots off, pants down, hat on, junk erect

I win every time.

[Dragonzbane76]

i would def. turn right around and march out the door and never look back.

YOU WIN.

[goju]

i fight out of the tkd stance i was taught long ago which was a quite similar to the stance in jkd only a tad different

[SPJ]

there is no difference between north kung fu fighting stance from western boxing. spj is talking out of his fat ass
all kung fu fight with variations of 5/5 3/7 and 7/3

there is also 1/9.

and 6/4.

[SevenStar]

I have discussed this with eagle76 before about the differences between boxing and traditional through kickboxing to muay thai stance.

Boxers stance is closed more so than the others comparably for kicking purposes of course.

traditionally, thai boxing had a few stances. primarily, the normal stance and kick stance. old thai boxers weren't much for mobility - that is something that has been brought into the style via western boxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkigvaSZxBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxr8IOYNNZU&feature=related

notice the lack of mobility. it is skill and toughness. evasion plays a much lesser role.


for me being a mixture I like my stance to shift back and forth between. I have a weird stance in that i'm a righty but fight south paw. But that doesn't mean I don't shift to left a good bit.

Sparring people and they always comment that I switch up a good bit between south to orthadox.

just something I've always done and I seem to do alright with it. Of course I've had trainers get frustrated with me for shifting all the time. :)


In jun fan, you learn to fight strong side forward. in boxing and muay thai, strong side is back. training in both has me constantly changing leads as well.

[SPJ]

each style has reasons for its stance

in wu zu quan, stone tomb tablet or shi pai zhuang

your arms are lower around your waist, you use your side to face the opponent

you want to get close fast. you may move up your forward hand to defend fast, you rear hand is ready to deliver strike or throw.

wu zhu or 5 ancestors fist

is known for short/close infighting duan da.

---

in xing yi san ti and tong bei yin shou zhang, your hands are up to protect chest and abdomen, but they are ready to change to attack/grappling/strikes/throws

the lead hand, nose, and lead foot are aligned or 3 points/tops san jian xiang zhao

you move into other stances but you are always 3 tips aligned

--

in taichi, you are ready to move arms up and rotate your waist and steps, thus you maintain 60 degree facing

--

so what is the point of thou fighting stance?

---

[YouKnowWho]

so what is the point of thou fighting stance?
If you always move around and constantly give your opponent pressure, you will find out that you are not using any fighting stance. Only when you wait for your opponent to attack you, and you act like a sitting duck, you have to use some kind of "fighting stance".

IMO, the concept of the fighting stance is too conservative. If you drop guard, your opponent will hit your head. If you raise guard, your opponent will kick your belly. No matter what you do, you can't cover your entire body. It's better to let your opponent to worry about it instead.

One day a guy asked a friend of mine, "What's your style?" My friend said, "My style is the style that can beat the sh!t out of you." I like his attitude very much. :) If you always act like a tiger and try to eat your opponent alive, you already win even before the fight start.

[Drake]

Stances are a method of movement, with fluid transitions. Who in their right mind expects you to stand there in a horse stance and fight?

[SoCo KungFu]

Stances are a method of movement, with fluid transitions. Who in their right mind expects you to stand there in a horse stance and fight?

Hardwork has eluded to this a couple times....

For me feet comfortably apart and on the balls, legs relaxed. I'm a south paw so I like to keep mobile and open up body kicks when they extend to punch and stuff. Plus I hate having my head sitting their for a right down the barrel. Only time I change up is if I know the guy is looking to get close and tie me up or grapple. Then I spread out a little more and lower my center. And I might leave out my lead hand at times to bait em in, I don't mind clinching.

[Hebrew Hammer]

boots off, pants down, hat on, junk erect

I win every time.

Sounds like you're fighting for that last bar of soap before the guards come.:eek:

[Iron_Eagle_76]

traditionally, thai boxing had a few stances. primarily, the normal stance and kick stance. old thai boxers weren't much for mobility - that is something that has been brought into the style via western boxing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkigvaSZxBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxr8IOYNNZU&feature=related

notice the lack of mobility. it is skill and toughness. evasion plays a much lesser role.




In jun fan, you learn to fight strong side forward. in boxing and muay thai, strong side is back. training in both has me constantly changing leads as well.

This is a good point. Several Muay Thai gyms in recent years began incorporating punching technique and footwork into their Muay Thai training from western boxing.

[David Jamieson]

50/50 - horse

60/40 - lead step

70/30 - bow and arrow

100/0 - one leg

[TenTigers]

If you always move around and constantly give your opponent pressure, you will find out that you are not using any fighting stance. Only when you wait for your opponent to attack you, and you act like a sitting duck, you have to use some kind of "fighting stance".

IMO, the concept of the fighting stance is too conservative. If you drop guard, your opponent will hit your head. If you raise guard, your opponent will kick your belly. No matter what you do, you can't cover your entire body. It's better to let your opponent to worry about it instead.


agreed. A "Fighting Stance" is used to give a student a platform for throwing their techniques with the best body structure possible. The coverage is neccesary because as much as we want to attack, attack, attack, there is always the chance that our opponent is going to launch his attack first, and as much as we like to say, "You attack first, I hit first," it don't always go down like that.
In addition, it teaches you to attack and cover at the same time, thus allowing interception (stop-hits) and to take advantage of the openings that occur when your attacker throws.

fighting stances also look very cool in the mirror.....
at least mine does.
(this, of course is the ideal set-up for MK to post an apropos pic)

[sanjuro_ronin]

On a side note:

Besides drilling moves from a fighting stance, it is also crucial to drill them from neutral stances such as:
Hands down by sides
Arms crossed
Hands in pockets
Etc.

[Hardwork108]

Besides providing mobility the stances are a source of power and help in transferring it ground (earth)up, in kung fu, so depending on the style one practices one needs to maintain a certain amount of structural integritty..........