I ordered Coffee and Got Tea

[ngokfei]

dedicated to all you morning folks. (reference to coffee and tea)

Just wanted to get your thought on this item which is annoying me.

I join a school that advertises ex: "Eagle Claw Kung Fu". Banners everywhere, Pictures with the Grand Master, Ranking Certificates, etc. the whole package. So we would be convinced that we had indeed found a Eagle Claw Kung Fu School and will be learning that style.

But after 2-3 years when I go for and get my black belt - I haven't learned any Traditional Eagle Claw forms, etc. Instead I got generic Northern foundation.

Have I been ripped off?

[taai gihk yahn]

dedicated to all you morning folks. (reference to coffee and tea)

Just wanted to get your thought on this item which is annoying me.

I join a school that advertises ex: "Eagle Claw Kung Fu". Banners everywhere, Pictures with the Grand Master, Ranking Certificates, etc. the whole package. So we would be convinced that we had indeed found a Eagle Claw Kung Fu School and will be learning that style.

But after 2-3 years when I go for and get my black belt - I haven't learned any Traditional Eagle Claw forms, etc. Instead I got generic Northern foundation.

Have I been ripped off?
Well, for me the warning sign wud hav been after a
few months not seeing any of the seniors/BB's doing any EC...

[David Jamieson]

Maybe the teacher doesn't think it's prudent to teach the eagle claw until after the person has earned their black belt?

There's lot's of styles that do not teach the core of the system until there has been considerable work put forward by the student.

[lkfmdc]

meh, cut out the middle man

go right to the source http://www.firstpeople.us/pictures/eagles/1024x768/Bald_Eagle-Wingspan-1024x768.jpg

[SevenStar]

dedicated to all you morning folks. (reference to coffee and tea)

Just wanted to get your thought on this item which is annoying me.

I join a school that advertises ex: "Eagle Claw Kung Fu". Banners everywhere, Pictures with the Grand Master, Ranking Certificates, etc. the whole package. So we would be convinced that we had indeed found a Eagle Claw Kung Fu School and will be learning that style.

But after 2-3 years when I go for and get my black belt - I haven't learned any Traditional Eagle Claw forms, etc. Instead I got generic Northern foundation.

Have I been ripped off?

some schools do this. there used to be a school in my area which taught a combination of various arts - wing chun, eagle claw, hung gar and northern mantis. when you reached black sash level, you could pick a style to focus on, and you would train in that style only from that point forward.

[SPJ]

Good wine is at the bottom of the bottle. (taiwanese proverb)

he jiu ding an te.

Good things are for the people that wait.

To practice eagle claw, you have to loosen and strenghten all of your finger joints. so that you have a strong grip and penetrating powers from the fingers.

Hand conditioning and finger conditioning are not for every one.

a lot of practice and herbs.

a lot of destruction/pain and rebuilding/healing of your hands and fingers.

[mooyingmantis]

dedicated to all you morning folks. (reference to coffee and tea)

Just wanted to get your thought on this item which is annoying me.

I join a school that advertises ex: "Eagle Claw Kung Fu". Banners everywhere, Pictures with the Grand Master, Ranking Certificates, etc. the whole package. So we would be convinced that we had indeed found a Eagle Claw Kung Fu School and will be learning that style.

But after 2-3 years when I go for and get my black belt - I haven't learned any Traditional Eagle Claw forms, etc. Instead I got generic Northern foundation.

Have I been ripped off?

First, what do you consider "generic Northern foundation"? Though I would also question what I was learning after that amount of time and no EC, it is not unusual to spend time learning generic Northern foundation forms as a build up to EC or 7* Mantis.

Second, what did you earn your "black belt" in, if not EC?

Honestly, I would feel ripped off too if I were you.

[TenTigers]

well, wasn't that the curricullum of Jing Mo? All students must first learn the foundational skills-Tan Tuie,Lien Bo Kuen, Gung Lik Kuen, sheepherder's staff and pek kwar dao before learning a speciality?
Lau Fat-Man taught his eagle claw in Jing-Mo, so it still may be a traditional school.

[ngokfei]

Now for those who don't know I trained under Shum Leung since 85 and he's not the individual I'm talking about. He had his curriculum posted right up on the wall. 3rd hand form was eagle claw.

Now I just checked with an attorney friend of mine who looked into it. Basically it has to do with the concept of Bait and Switch.

If a individual joined for a particular style and was not taught it in what would be considered a timely manner (ie: black belt significance) then it would be something one could win in court.

The sly part is this individual doesn't call his school Eagle Claw. Just has it all over his website as the style he teaches.

secondly his contract doesn't say the student will be learning "eagle Claw".

So even though not very moral (or a good sign of Mo Duk/Wude). Generally the contract could be canceled due to the content not being specific and as such would constitute a lack of meeting of the minds so the contract would be considered null and void from that point on.

As for teaching Northern Style such as the Chin Woo/Jing Mo material - that is generally deemed as Northern Shaolin or Chin Woo style and as such would be considered a totally different program.

Only if the school owner was to have made clear and known that there was a pre-requisite of learning Northern Shaolin/Chin Woo material before learning Eagle Claw then that would be fine.

interesting isn't it. shame some schools teachers are so deceitful today. But then again buyer beware and be self educated before joining a school for a specific program/style.

[Drake]

2-3 years and you hadn't figured this out yet?


It'll likely be a pretty weak lawsuit, and even if you win, you'll most likely coming out owing due to legal fees. The lawyers won't tell you this, of course.

And if you don't win, which you probably won't, you have financially shot yourself in the foot.

I'd suggest walking away with a lesson learned. But what I don't get is... this was never discussed? Not once? And after x amount of years, you didn't start asking questions until you were about to get your "black belt"?

I'd review your contract if I were you, before talking to any lawyers.

[ngokfei]

I think I kind of mislead you here.
It isn't me who got screwed.
I've recently been in contact with a couple of students of this individual (who also happens to be a classmate - oh god).

For one thing they were pretty lazy in doing their research as the entire Eagle Claw Curriculum is available on my teacher's website.

As you said buyer beware -

[Dale Dugas]

are you talking about the Bak Shaolin Eagle Claw people?

[David Jamieson]

"bak shaolin eagle claw"... really?

*googles*


:eek:

wow.

[MasterKiller]

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1427/62732707.gif

[ngokfei]

Nah - nothing to do with them.

Whats with the clown?

[PHILBERT]

Nah - nothing to do with them.

Whats with the clown?

Insane Clown Posse. A crappy group of "rappers" who portray the hardships of growing up as a white male in middle class America.

It's a quote from one of their songs.

[bawang]

why 2 years?

[Hebrew Hammer]

Dude, your story doesn't jel, it feels like a lot of missng info...here...maybe it wasnt you who attended this school, have you taken martial arts before this? Do you know what eagle claw looks like? Did you observe any classes before you joined? And like someone else asked...how did it not come up in conversation with the sifu or other students over this 2-3 years of training. What does generic northern foundation mean?

Does the school claim to teach only Eagle claw or a mix match of styles including Eagle Claw? Was the generic Northern Foundation stuff any good? You obviously stuck around...did you only go to one class a month?

Smells fishy, like some giant bald eagle swooped down and snatched the fish right off your line as you were reeling it in.

Oops...just read the post where you said it was somebody else...nevermind.

[bawang]

buyer beware
lol buying kung fu

[David Jamieson]

lol buying kung fu

well, you can buy lessons, but it doesn't mean you'll learn. :p