Wudang Lightness Skills?

[Hardwork108]

Very interesting video clip. The master in this video is very skillful in many areas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEstfWBoaCw&feature=related



HW108

[Dragonzbane76]

very skillful in wushu :rolleyes:

nothing jacky chan hasn't done a thousand times.

[Hardwork108]

very skillful in wushu :rolleyes:

nothing jacky chan hasn't done a thousand times.

Now we know who watches too many kung fu films.....LOL!

[Scott R. Brown]

I grew up doing that kind of stuff! It IS athleticism, but not necessarily a demonstration of martial arts skill!

[TenTigers]

TKD + Le Parkour + gymnastics = Wudan Martial Arts???

[doug maverick]

Very interesting video clip. The master in this video is very skillful in many areas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEstfWBoaCw&feature=related



HW108

are you serious or just joking? cause that was lame, parkour runners have better ginggong. and as for the martial arts...just cheap theatrics, WTF with all the under cranking? lame

[Dragonzbane76]

Now we know who watches too many kung fu films.....LOL!

i think the other posts speak in the same manner i am. :rolleyes:

I was just pointing out the obvious.

[taai gihk yahn]

Very interesting video clip. The master in this video is very skillful in many areas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEstfWBoaCw&feature=related



HW108

and yet from 1:38 tp 1:50 he uses weights (including a "modern" Universal machine :eek:) in a manner that would appear to be in direct violation of so-called "internal" principles...

as for his kicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUEwXoCXFE
no better or worse than good TKD (especially starting at ~2:19!)

as for his "hin gong":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6F_iP-F7Fw
clearly evidence that one can do exactly the same thing without needing any sort of specialized Wu Dong training

no taking away from his athleticism, but nothing to do with any sort of training exclusive to classical Taoist practice (which really has almost nothing to do with martial arts anyway, in fact most martial arts "internal" practice, IMPO, is a misapplication / corruption of classical Taoist inner practice, but anyway...)

[Hardwork108]

Guys, there is a question mark on the title of the thread. There is a reason for that. :D

[taai gihk yahn]

TKD + Le Parkour + gymnastics = Wudan Martial Arts???

I'd just call it the spontaneous (re)discovery of human potential...

[Hardwork108]

and yet from 1:38 tp 1:50 he uses weights (including a "modern" Universal machine :eek:) in a manner that would appear to be in direct violation of so-called "internal" principles...
There is more than one principle for Internal training. There are some styles that do not use weight training at all but may test and refine their power and strength development by using "heavy" weapons at later stages of their training. Other similar styles may use certain type of weights.

One can also mix careful weight training with one's internal practice, but many masters believe that this will hinder Internal strength development, at least up to a point.


as for his kicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUEwXoCXFE
no better or worse than good TKD (especially starting at ~2:19!)
IMHO, the Internals are not so much about a given striking technique (except for the "short power" variety) but more so about the type of energy transfer when contact is made.

For example, some Internal punching techniques may resemble karate ones, but the energy is different.


as for his "hin gong":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6F_iP-F7Fw
clearly evidence that one can do exactly the same thing without needing any sort of specialized Wu Dong training
Of course not, but specialized Internal training (wether it is the case here or not), would perhaps utilize slightly different mechanisms which would perhaps leave the practitioners of the kung fu style healthier than his Western counterpart when old age sets in.


no taking away from his athleticism, but nothing to do with any sort of training exclusive to classical Taoist practice (which really has almost nothing to do with martial arts anyway, in fact most martial arts "internal" practice, IMPO, is a misapplication / corruption of classical Taoist inner practice, but anyway...)

Perhaps, but IMHO Internal MAs are a very valid and high level TCMA fighting systems, that are nowadays often misunderstood by many modern MA-ists.

[Dragonzbane76]

There is more than one principle for Internal training. There are some styles that do not use weight training at all but may test and refine their power and strength development by using "heavy" weapons at later stages of their training. Other similar styles may use certain type of weights.

One can also mix careful weight training with one's internal practice, but many masters believe that this will hinder Internal strength development, at least up to a point.

say what you will... and you will for sure...

there is no internal and external... it is one spectrum... It is ONE THING.


For example, some Internal punching techniques may resemble karate ones, but the energy is different.
shows how much you know about karate...:rolleyes:
karate is it's own breed... you cannot place a chinese concept on it.

[Hardwork108]

I see that you are still entering discussions that are way above your (knuckle) head....


say what you will... and you will for sure...

there is no internal and external... it is one spectrum... It is ONE THING.
There is Internal and External, BUT they are RELATED, just like the night is related to the day.

Think about what I said a little beat and come back to us in a few years time....:rolleyes:


shows how much you know about karate...:rolleyes:
karate is it's own breed... you cannot place a chinese concept on it.

I have got news for you, people who were a lot smarter than you (even if, that is not a great achievement), "placed a Chinese concept" on Karate a long time ago, but apparently NOT enough, and that is also related to the point I was trying to make.

The punches may looks similar but a lot of times the energy is different. Try to understand what I am saying, but try not to exert yourself too much as we don't want your head to explode, and your brains splattered on your computer screen......

HW108

PS. LOL! (I put the exclamation mark, just to keep you happy.:D)

[Dragonzbane76]

There is Internal and External, BUT they are RELATED, just like the night is related to the day.

Think about what I said a little beat and come back to us in a few years time....

when you learn that everything is one thing then I'll actually take you serious... until that day..LOL!


I have got news for you, people who were a lot smarter than you (even if, that is not a great achievement), "placed a Chinese concept" on Karate a long time ago, but apparently NOT enough, and that is also related to the point I was trying to make.

The punches may looks similar but a lot of times the energy is different. Try to understand what I am saying, but try not to exert yourself too much as we don't want your head to explode, and your brains splattered on your computer screen......

have you ever done karate to say you know this?? When have you done this and can state the people you have studied with and who they are I'll take you serious at that moment.

I never stated that some "people" put a concept on karate. all people do but you put your own "concept" on it. Which states you know intricately the inner "workings" so please tell us your deep knowledge of said criteria. :rolleyes:
sensei:rolleyes:

I'm sure ronin or goju or those practiced can tell us more of said art...:cool:

[Hardwork108]

when you learn that everything is one thing then I'll actually take you serious... until that day..LOL!
And when you learn that the "one thing" we talk about in these forums is KUNG FU, and that you seem to be clueless to it, then I will say that you are an honest knucklehead.



have you ever done karate to say you know this??

Nobody has to have "done" karate to know that it is Chinese influenced and hence contains Chinese concepts....LOL!

Of course, the amount and types of Chinese concepts will differ from style to style.


When have you done this and can state the people you have studied with and who they are o
Actually, what the hell, Iĺl tell you. Karate was my first martial art when I was in my teens. I studied in London at the Marshal Baths dojo under the late Keinosuke Enoeda. I studied for a short while, but the experience of his style of teaching has stayed with me until today. It is because of Enoeda that I continued to research and read about karate, even though I know it lacks the richness and subtlities of kung fu.

I also studied Shotokan in Brasil, while looking for a kung fu school, and then some..


I'll take you serious at that moment.
Please, please, please, DON'T take me seriously. The minute Kung fu-clueless MMA knuckleheads take me seriously, then I will know that my goose is cooked!


I never stated that some "people" put a concept on karate. all people do but you put your own "concept" on it. Which states you know intricately the inner "workings" so please tell us your deep knowledge of said criteria. :rolleyes:

You said that I could not put a Chinese concept on Karate, which I was not aware I was doing. I replied that karate was very much influenced or contained Chinese concepts.

You are the one who is clueless. What is your karate experience? And when are you going back to your karate Mcdojo to ask for your money back?

Here some information for you and your ever suffering "brain":

The original name Karate itself had meant "Tang Hand". Tang was a reference to the Chinese Tang dynasty, as sign of respect and appreciation of Okinawans to the Chinese teachings that had influenced this art. The meaning was later changed to "Empty Hand" by an Okinawan karate master by the name of Ch0m0 Hanagi.

The Sanchin kata can trace its roots to Southern Chinese Kung fu styles such as White Crane and Five Ancestor Fist (where the Crane is one of the ancestors). Its Chinese name is Sam Chien. Of course, the Karate way seems to be generally harder and lacking in the subtlety that many Chinese master regard as fundamental, but that is another subject for another thread.

The Kanku Dai kata is also based on the teachings of an 18th century Chinese kung fu master, who had visited Okinawa.

The Kata Empi was formerly called Wanshu, named after its creator, who was a Chinese military officer who had lived in Okinawa.

And there are others, but i believe that I have made my point......


sensei:rolleyes:
Oss! :rolleyes:


I'm sure ronin or goju or those practiced can tell us more of said art...:cool:

I can't wait for their contributions. You are wrong on this one (and as always).

Nobody is going to come here and say that karate was not, greatly I might add, influenced by the TCMAs.

I will take my leave now and let you and your "brain" discuss the facts mentioned in my post.....LOL!a

[tiaji1983]

Wudang Qing Gong training is not anything that mystical.

It starts with standing on stake.

then you stand on bricks. first on the braod side, then on the narrow side, then standing straight up. This helps deal with balance, and fear of hieghts.

Then you walk the circle like in Bagua, on bricks. First on the braod side, then on the narrow side, then standing straight up. This helps with balance, a light step, wieght transitioning, and moving on a high place.

Then you take a huge pot, as in for a plant, first you fill it with dirt, and walk along the edges. Then you remove the dirt and walk along the edges. This helps with balance, light steps, wieght transitioning on an unsturdy surface, and quick nimble foot work.

Then you take a board or a tree, and place it on a wall, of lets say, a 1 story building at a 45 degree angle. You run up the board, then you move the board closer and closer until you can run up the board with it straight against the wall. This helps you use the combined skills to do something amazing to some people with it.

It takes a long time and a lot of self discipline, but with this path, you can jump off a 1 story building and not make a sound. There are some Qigongs involved, but since I do not know the names of the Qigongs, I wont mention them. But basically it may be good to show off, or if your an assasin, a thief, or military, but I dont see how it will help you in a fight. I know some people can do vertical jumps after the training thier body hieght or higher, but again, why if your focus is combat? To get more students that just want to show off?.... I dont think he should have ever done the videos...

[Dragonzbane76]

For example, some Internal punching techniques may resemble karate ones, but the energy is different.

repost that for you there....incase you forgot you wrote it. :rolleyes:

I never once stated that karate didn't have a CMA influence to it. And yes, I know the history so good thing this is the net. we didn't cut down 20 trees for your long winded un-needed rant.




I replied that karate was very much influenced or contained Chinese concepts.

putting your "internal" thoughts on Karate was my point. ;)
glad we figured that out.

[Hardwork108]

repost that for you there....incase you forgot you wrote it. :rolleyes:

I also wrote:


]For example, some Internal punching techniques may resemble karate ones, but the energy is different.

This was a valid point, as even in single kung fu styles you can apply the same strike using different energies.

[Which probably left you and most other MMA-ists and Pseudo-kung fu-ists scratching their heads]

THEN YOU ANSWERED:



shows how much you know about karate...

Evidently I know more about it than you do!



karate is it's own breed... you cannot place a chinese concept on it.
LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!

You and your MMA brethren don't seem to get tired of lying and misrepresenting any TCMA-ist who proves you to be clueless and out of your depths....

It would have been much easier if you had confessed to making a beginner's mistake and have done with it, but no you couldn't, could you? So, you went on to back track, in the worst way possible, I might add...LOL!

If you are this clueless about karate, one can only imagine the depth of your cluelessness regarding the TCMA's which are significantly more profound than this Okinawan/Japanese art! LOL!




I never once stated that karate didn't have a CMA influence to it.
Ok, let me refresh your punch drunk memory:


karate is it's own breed... you cannot place a chinese concept on it.

You LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!



And yes, I know the history so good thing this is the net.

Hey, you are blabbing....LOL


we didn't cut down 20 trees for your long winded un-needed rant.
It was not a rant, but some information for you and your ignorant "brain". Call it charity, if you like.......



putting your "internal" thoughts on Karate was my point. ;)

My Internal thoughts were not on Karate but on kung fu, or rather I was contrasting it.

You ain't getting away with it!!!

You made a clueless remark (yet, another one) and you were shown to be out of your depth, and you were not man enough to say you were wrong!

END OF STORY!



glad we figured that out.
I have figured it out a long time ago, but you seem to be lost in forest, looking for your "brain".

You know, you should really put a leash on that thing...LOL!

[Dragonzbane76]

didn't really read all that.. skimmed really.

honestly I don't care... period. It's an ongoing argument with you and really I don't care.


Evidently I know more about it than you do!Your just a master of everything aren't you. You have no idea my background only what you guess, and we'll leave it at that.


It would have been much easier if you had confessed to making a beginner's mistake and have done with it, but no you couldn't, could you? So, you went on to back track, in the worst way possible, I might add...LOL!

If you are this clueless about karate, one can only imagine the depth of your cluelessness regarding the TCMA's which are significantly more profound than this Okinawan/Japanese art! LOL!

first off let me state I think you misunderstood me. I know karate has roots in TCMA, we have established that yay....

second: my point was you seemed to be trying to connect up karate and KF through some "internal" point , which as we established above they have a past together. My point as I've stated 100 times to you before and I'll state it again, there is no external internal, it's all the same.


You LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL! I do not lie you fu(king pansy, just because you can't read or understand context does not make my statement any less.


You ain't getting away with it!!! getting away with it??:confused: seriously you need to take your tinfoil hat off and let the air get to your brain.

I'm not commenting on the rest of your uncomprehendable jumble of wording.

[dimethylsea]

What he is showing in the way of lightness skills (as opposed to how he trains them.. he doesn't show the practice, just a demonstration of use) is pretty consistent with how intermediate-level parkour does things. He's just added some "kungfu posing" and "kungfu constume" to the parkour feats. Maybe it's more like wushu free-running ("tricks" parkour) than actual parkour because of this.

I won't comment about the rest of it (i.e. the wushu) since I don't know much about wushu.

One of my roomates who trained with me did parkour. We would work rudiments from time to time, but big fat rednecks don't do so well at l'art du displacement!

Still very interesting training though. He did things routinely I would have sworn I could only be hallucinating.
\
Who else has trained parkour here?

[Dragonzbane76]

Maybe it's more like wushu free-running ("tricks" parkour) than actual parkour because of this.

that was my first assesment of it as well.

[Hardwork108]

didn't really read all that.. skimmed really.
Watch that fragile attention span of yours, I say....LOL


honestly I don't care... period. It's an ongoing argument with you and really I don't care.
The problem is not the argument. The problem is that you have not clue about the subject matter of the argument, but then there is nothing new about that concept either....LOL!


Your just a master of everything aren't you.
I have never claimed to be a master of anything. Perhaps it is your own mediocre knowledge that is making me look like a master to you?


You have no idea my background only what you guess, and we'll leave it at that.
Not true.

So far I know that your "background" in kung fu has not made you aware of the internal training that is inherent in most, if not all kung fu styles, leading to you making totally clueless comments all over the forum.

I also know that your "background" in Karate, has not made you aware of the fundamental Chinese or TCMA, influence on this art.

So, yes I have a good idea of your TMA "background"...LOL!



first off let me state I think you misunderstood me. I know karate has roots in TCMA, we have established that yay....
We only established that when I showed you to be clueless about karate as well, when you said that we could not apply a Chinese context to it...LOL!

We also established that you are at least, as clueless about Karate, as you are about the TCMAs....LOL!


second: my point was you seemed to be trying to connect up karate and KF through some "internal" point ,
Nobody was trying to "connect" kung fu to karate. The correct word is "contrast", that is contrasting the energy of a Tai chi punch to that of a karate one!

Why are you so slow?:confused:



which as we established above they have a past together.

I was the one who established that and NOT you!

You were saying that one had nothing to do with the other!

However, do continue trying to save face. Your desperation is very entertaining...LOL!


My point as I've stated 100 times to you before and I'll state it again, there is no external internal, it's all the same.

And your point proves my point about you being clueless to higher level (and lower level) TCMA methodologies......LOL!


I do not lie you fu(king pansy, just because you can't read or understand context does not make my statement any less.

That is interesting because I could have sworn that you were LYING blatently in your last few posts, just to save face when you did not even demonstrate a beginner's understanding of Karate history.


getting away with it??:confused: seriously you need to take your tinfoil hat off and let the air get to your brain.
I only take my hat off to true TMA practitioners who are also scholars of their arts, not some Jack of All Trades, MMA-ist, who has trained karate, but does not acknowledge the fundamental Chinese influences within it; or has trained "kung fu", but does not understand the Internal elements embedded within the TCMAs....

You know, you come across as very unknowledgable and ignorant. You should do more reading about the TMAs. Perhaps you can find a library near the trailer park where you live?


I'm not commenting on the rest of your uncomprehendable jumble of wording.

The truth is hurting you and you find that "incomprehensible". Very understandable...

However, the fact that your fragile attention span allowed you to respond as much as you did, was pretty impressive. Have you changed your medication? LOL!

I hope that you did not burst any blood vessels in your "brain", while answering my post...LOL!

[bawang]

The problem is not the argument. The problem is that you have not clue about the subject matter of the argument, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie) but then there is nothing new about that concept either....LOL!


I have never claimed to be a master of anything (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie). Perhaps it is your own mediocre knowledge that is making me look like a master to you?



So far I know that your "background" in kung fu has not made you aware of the internal training that is inherent in most, if not all kung fu styles, leading to you making totally clueless comments all over the forum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie)


So, yes I have a good idea of your TMA "background"...LOL!

gdfgdfsdfsdffsdg

[Hardwork108]

gdfgdfsdfsdffsdg

Hey, Dave Ross, what is the point of quoting my post?:confused:

Don't you think the pain of reading them once is enough for our poor friend Dragonzbane76, or did you want him to read it again, to feel even more pain? LOL!

[Dragonzbane76]

Not true.

So far I know that your "background" in kung fu has not made you aware of the internal training that is inherent in most, if not all kung fu styles, leading to you making totally clueless comments all over the forum.

I also know that your "background" in Karate, has not made you aware of the fundamental Chinese or TCMA, influence on this art.

So, yes I have a good idea of your TMA "background"...LOL!

haha guesstimation....

what ever you f u c k ing wack job. go play with you little doll collections, your nothing but the scum of society, the underbelly of everything that is wrong in this world and always will be.

again i didn't really read the rest of your stupid little rant about the same sh!t over and over. it's getting really boring, just like you a boring old c u nt thats dried up left stinking to the heavens.

[Hardwork108]

haha guesstimation....
No guessing there. You are as clueless as a door knob....LOL


what ever you f u c k ing wack job. go play with you little doll collections, your nothing but the scum of society, the underbelly of everything that is wrong in this world and always will be.
Upset, are we? :rolleyes:


again i didn't really read the rest of your stupid little rant about the same sh!t over and over.
Yes, why strain that poor and lonely neuron floating aimlessly in that empty space that is your inner skull? LOL!


it's getting really boring,
You are telling me? LOL!


just like you a boring old c u nt thats dried up left stinking to the heavens.
Wow, now I know why you avoid women....was this a reference to your first sexual experience? If so, then I am afraid that you get what you pay for. So, next time don't be such a tight asz, and splash out a bit...;)

Oh, by the way,









LOL!

[dimethylsea]

Why don't you guys discuss THE CLIP?

As far as lightness skill training I always enjoy this one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkpde4vSuwc

[Hardwork108]

Why don't you guys discuss THE CLIP?

As far as lightness skill training I always enjoy this one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkpde4vSuwc

This is a good one. I have seen this before and I liked it because there seems to be logical methodology to it, including, I hear, qi gong.

[Dragonzbane76]

You are as clueless as a door knob....LOL

haha at least a door knob has a purpose... unlike you.


Upset, are we?
nah just making sure you know where you stand with me.


Yes, why strain that poor and lonely neuron floating aimlessly in that empty space that is your inner skull? LOL!
I'm just amazed at your inability to come up with new stuff even after all this time of bickering back and forth you still say the same things.

Wow, now I know why you avoid women....was this a reference to your first sexual experience? If so, then I am afraid that you get what you pay for. So, next time don't be such a tight asz, and splash out a bit...
at least my experience is with women instead of little boys.


oh by the way,



lol