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Tekarius
09-02-2000, 10:12 AM
This is actually for a friend. He is thinking of taking Praying Mantis. He said the instructor is name Jon Funk. Is He legit??

mantis108
09-02-2000, 11:23 PM
Hi Tekarius,

Your conern for your friend is noble. As to the question ligit or not it is really relative. I can share with you some facts I know of the man and give his url and you make your judgement call.

I have met him on a few occassions and at one of Al Chang (his Sifu) training sessions while he was there. It was back in the early 80s. That would give his almost 20 years of experience at least.

He can provide you a good account of his lineage.

He has been active in many matters concerning martial arts including regular contributions to the Black Belt Magazine Offering his views and visions.

I have never trained with him; therefore, can't provide any further detail on his method. I think if you would visit his site you'll get a better picture of him

www.mantiskungfu.com (http://www.mantiskungfu.com)

IMHO, his is sincerely involved with his beloved art.

Peace

Mantis108

------------------
Contraria Sunt Complementa

word
09-03-2000, 12:11 AM
Jon Funk is a legit sifu. However, his skill is not that high. I'm not sure how he runs his school but he's very involved and throws huge tournaments all the time.

Tekarius
09-03-2000, 11:25 AM
Thx guys for the info. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tekarius
09-16-2000, 04:46 AM
Does Jon Funk know any chi gung???

bamboo_ leaf
09-16-2000, 06:32 AM
I find it very amuseing that people would actuly question the ablity of some well known Sifus.

Even more inceadable is the confermantion of said ablity by who?

If you want to know about some one either vist the school, directly or call. And voice your concerns.

enjoy life

bamboo leaf

Tekarius
09-16-2000, 07:57 AM
My friend has visited the school and has talk to that instructor. It doesn't hurt to ask more then one opinion right?

bamboo_ leaf
09-17-2000, 12:17 AM
My amazement comes from people who do not have any profile details even as to the place where they live, style they play or length of training and then asking about the ability of some well known and very respected people in the martial comity.

Each preying mantis org. has a list of who can repseant the style they are teaching and most of the Sifu know each other, if they don't then they probably know of the Sifus teacher.


So no; it's not wrong to question but the manor and direction of the question, (is he legit). Your words. Some of these teachers have spent their whole lives training and teaching, apparently much longer then some of the members of this form have been alive.

I have found the best way is to ask the teacher himself or one of the leading members of that style; we have some of those people here in this forum. In any case the only way that anybody can know for sure is to watch a class and try it out.

Good luck to your friend, Sifu Funk has done a lot to spread the word on 7* preying mantis and he is very respected in the mantis comity.





enjoy life

bamboo leaf

Tekarius
09-18-2000, 01:36 AM
Thx for all the help guys but if there any other things about this sifu plz tell me.:)

word
09-26-2000, 04:17 AM
Funk is respected only because he is spreading the art. Is he any good? I don't think so. He uses way too much power and is very very stiff. His kung fu movements have that karate flavor where they use a ton of power, too much stiff power.

Now you talk about the mantis community. Who is the mantis community? I only know 2-3 good mantis sifus and the rest are today's mantis "sifus" who's skill are only average. So which ones do you consider in the community? More likely than not, your list of sifus in the community does not match mine.

mantis7
09-26-2000, 04:46 AM
my list

Sifu Albright

Sifu Ortiz

Sifu lai

Sifu poi

Sifu R nelson

Sifu spencer Gee

Sifu keller

Who's on your list of Mantis Sifu's

Victor

8stepsifu
09-26-2000, 04:49 AM
The saying...Kikin Mo Funk Than a Shalin Monk directly refers to him being able to kick mo Funk. Now if he is kikin more than a shaolin monk we can safely say that his abilities are better than the average Shaolin Monk's. Who else has tee-shirt companies talking them up??? Thats right no one besides bruce lee. Since Bruce Lee is on T-Shirts and people call him a GrandMaster and Jon Funk is refered to on T-Shirts then we can also conclude that Jon Funk is a GrandMaster. Now where can I get a T-shirt with his face on it....never mind bad idea. Many musicians were so impressed by his abilities that they took on the "Funk" name for respect. Several Grandmasters of Funk have appeared on the music scene and the Red Hot Chili Pepers claim that they play "funk" coincidence? Clearly they have heard of his legendary ability and wanted to have that kind of name recognition as a symbol of quality. So to answer you question.."Is Jon Funk legit?" I can truthfully say, "maybe"

I hope this clears up any misinformation

8Step Sifu

word
09-26-2000, 07:10 AM
8 step,

what the hell are you talking about? VIctor

I agree with Lai and Poi. They are apart of the mantis community. You are missing a couple underground sifus who aren't in the limelight.

mantis7
09-27-2000, 03:33 AM
which underground sifu

Sifu Albright is right now on the top of my list.. have you had the pleasure of meeting or seeing him move..


Who else would you add word...... /infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

carnival shoes
11-07-2000, 02:50 AM
I have sudied under the instruction of John Funk.

He is the only instructor I have had so I accept that this may make me biased. In reference to the first post, He is a legit instructor.

To address your points,

He does the eigtheen Lohan hands which from my understanding is the basis of Shaolin Chi Gung.

He does three classes; begginer, intermidate and andvanced.

Beginners are introduced to the mantis principles and are taught basic drills for kicking and punching combo's. They are also taught some joint locks or chin na. The first form learnt is Buck Yuen Tow Toe. Once this has been learnt and practised sufficently they are tested for yellow belt and then advance to the intermidate level class.

He emphazies four main principles.

1. ambidextrous co-ordination
2. balanced movement
3. linked supple movement
4. dissolving skills

Hope that answers any questions.

I have most enjoyed my time under his instruction and the class is run in quite a relaxed atmosphere.

I see it has been a while since the original posting. Has your friend started class??

Ross
11-07-2000, 03:46 AM
I used to attend open workouts in the 80's where Jon spared with karate/kung fu students. If I hadn't seen his sifu perform before I probably would never have thought mantis effective. Go to the Traditional Kung Fu Training Center - T.C. Mantis school in Surrey. #116 12465 82nd Ave. Surrey, B.C. Canada V3W 3E8 Looks alot more legit!

R

Tekarius
11-07-2000, 05:59 AM
Carnival Shoes,No my friend is still doesn't really know what to do yet.

carnival shoes
11-08-2000, 12:27 AM
Without wanting to spark to much debate on the subject of sparring. It is not the be all and end all in Kung Fu. Self Defense? situation assesment, the best way to avoid confrontations, Guarding traders caravans travelling around ancient China. I bet the bandits didn't wear gloves and shin guards.

You state you saw him in the 80's. How good was your ability twenty odd years ago??

Ross
11-08-2000, 01:29 AM
The question being asked isn't what my skill was like but rather whether Jon is "legit". Legit means many things. Would it really matter whether I was better or worse than him then or now? I lived in his "neighbourhood" before he became "famous". I really don't want to slag him off but I have seen his instructor sifu Al Cheng and other instructors to compare him with. I think that Tekarius is asking whether I would reccomend Jon as an instructor. I have reasons for my opinion but hey that is all it is...my opinion FWIW.

As mantis 108 said Jon has done many admirable things but if you want to make simple comparisons would you train with the top skilled local mantis guy or go with the guy who was most politically adept? Me I'ld rather learn from the guy who could rip my face off (and hopefully be able to pass that knowledge on to me).

So don't take offense. My post was meant to direct the student to what looked to me to be an excellent mantis kwoon in the area. You probably know plenty of Jon's good points and he is lucky to have a dedicated student to defend his name.

R

[This message was edited by R on 11-08-00 at 05:46 PM.]

carnival shoes
11-08-2000, 11:53 PM
I guess your right..Good point

brucelee2
11-22-2000, 07:10 AM
I have observed a couple of Mr. Funk's classes. From what I have seen and what I have heard, I would not recommend him. If you email me I could recommend some other teachers in the area.

Turiyan
12-03-2000, 03:18 PM
You criticise others for anonyminity but cant spell "praying mantis" right. You type "prey".

Frankly I dont care how long or 'respected' jon funk is in the eyes of clueless caucasians. His video's are a joke.

And as far as converting to wushu. I'd like to know his connections in china. Because I'd like to know where his Quan Shi is.

Secondly, you have to be an AMATURE to compete in the olympics (sp?). If he's setting himself up for wushi in the olympics, its not as a competitor.

Something you may need to check out:
http://www.stack.nl/%7egalactus/remailers/fallacy2.html

Turiyan, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan

The REAL taichi:
http://www.wfdesign.com/tc/
http://www.wustyle.com/108.html

bamboo_ leaf
12-04-2000, 03:10 AM
Thanks for the spelling correction.
My point about anonyminity on the net was that

it's to easy to say things here in this medium with out the responsibility of owning your words.

If you can't say something that you wouldn't tell that person directly or wouldn't mind having your teacher know then why post it at all?

As I said it's too easy.

I thought that we as a comity would band together and try and help others along the path, not put people down who've been teaching and spreading the art for many years.

I guess we just have to many of those clueless Caucasians teaching the art after being certified by their respected Asian teachers to teach.

So why don't you find one of those clueless caucasians and tell them that they are clueless and shouldn't be teaching and then come back and post the results.

enjoy life

bamboo leaf

mantis714mrkmrg
04-01-2001, 03:56 AM
I cant believe what im reading why are people insulting this person, you cant trash a persons name, or his teaching if you never fought this person in a full contact match, that means like the old days of gung fu, todays artist only go by how flashy is his moves, but i'll take a good street fighter over some of these new modern day wushu acrobatics people. i dont train with nor have ant affiliation with public schools, I was taught in the basement of my teachers house, he was older came over from china he didnt move like some young acrobat, but he new how to use his martial art and thats how we practiced all aplications and fighting, so if you never fought him, you should hold your tongue, because defacing a sifu only shows your own imaturity and lack of respect to someone you dont even know.

LizMantis
04-01-2001, 04:32 AM
Well, first of all I have met Jon Funk a few times. He seems like a very nice guy. I have not played hands with him my self but he seen others. What he does is different of what we do in some ways as far as training from what I can tell. Not someone I would want to train with myself just because, ofcouse I like/feel the way my Sifu is training me is just best for me.(just some know one spaz out on me I did not say BETTER big diff. anyways) But he if your friend wanted to check him out I would say go for it he might be just what your friend is looking for.

www.kungfuexchange.com (http://www.kungfuexchange.com)

mantis714mrkmrg
04-01-2001, 04:58 AM
lizmantis that is a good point if you like where you are and a comfertible whos teaching you, then stay and pick there brain, as for funk and other teachers who are putting there forms on tape, I think its great, you can buy a tape of a form you dont know nor have, I wish more teachers would do this there are so many mantis forms out there, wouldnt it be nice to be able to learn them, nothing beats a real teacher but when your teacher retires, or you live somewhere where there isnt no schools, you might want to use these videos just to keep your intrest i wish the monks would do a series on the mantis and other animal forms for us to enjoy, because I know i'll never get the chance to train with one.

mantis714mrkmrg
04-01-2001, 04:58 AM
lizmantis that is a good point if you like where you are and a comfertible whos teaching you, then stay and pick there brain, as for funk and other teachers who are putting there forms on tape, I think its great, you can buy a tape of a form you dont know nor have, I wish more teachers would do this there are so many mantis forms out there, wouldnt it be nice to be able to learn them, nothing beats a real teacher but when your teacher retires, or you live somewhere where there isnt no schools, you might want to use these videos just to keep your intrest i wish the monks would do a series on the mantis and other animal forms for us to enjoy, because I know i'll never get the chance to train with one.

mantis714mrkmrg
04-01-2001, 04:59 AM
lizmantis that is a good point if you like where you are and a comfertible whos teaching you, then stay and pick there brain, as for funk and other teachers who are putting there forms on tape, I think its great, you can buy a tape of a form you dont know nor have, I wish more teachers would do this there are so many mantis forms out there, wouldnt it be nice to be able to learn them, nothing beats a real teacher but when your teacher retires, or you live somewhere where there isnt no schools, you might want to use these videos just to keep your intrest i wish the monks would do a series on the mantis and other animal forms for us to enjoy, because I know i'll never get the chance to train with one. :)

LizMantis
04-01-2001, 05:13 PM
I think it would be cool to be able to get all the forms tape to. But there is one slight problam with that. One learning something for a tape is ofcourse harder. Two I dont know if everyone does this but. I know Lily Lau on all of her tapes where she teaches a form she leaves a part out. That way no one can say "yeh I trained under Lily Lau". Then someone can see the form and be like oh yeh thats from tape 27. Also get "every" Mantis Form on Tape would be hard cause alot of people dont want so and so to have a form, (~so and so being someone they have not trained~)

www.kungfuexchange.com (http://www.kungfuexchange.com)

Inquisitor
04-01-2001, 06:49 PM
As LizMantis pointed out, no master is willing to put the sum of his/her knowledge in a book, video, or other form of media. Just look at what is put out by masters such as Chan Pui, Lily Lau, Tat Mau Wong, Paul Eng, etc. They most definetly do not put everything that they know into their books/vidoes; and it is safe to assume that sometimes they even change the basic information contained therein in order to ensure that only their actual students know the "real" stuff.
However, it is also safe to assume that they would not put out something with their names on it that would not be indicative of their level of skill. From what I have seen of Jon Funk, he seems to be a nice guy who, IMHO, does not give enough bang for the buck, as they say. I have met a former student of his who has told me as much, and have met a few others online (who used to be his students and are learning under other people) who also agree with those sentiments (although I cannot really vouch for their authenticity, as reality isn't as absolute as one might hope on the internet, heh). But let's be clear on one thing - he is a legitimate lineage master. Whether or not he is better/worse than the others out there is, on the other hand, objective

mantis714mrkmrg
04-01-2001, 06:56 PM
I herd that teachers leave things out to, I was in email with a ertain school in san fran. I was intrested in learning a five animal form somthing totally diff, and they told me to get the tape then fly out when I can and they would fix the form for me. I never figured out why these people leave things out. it only degrades the reputation, if somone has trained many years, and just wanted to learn another form for intrest. then performs it and its wrong it makes the person who made the tape look foolish not the practitioner. most people use tapes for learning another form to do for fun, they will always use the arts they where taught by there teacher when in a fight. unless there idiots, ive seen some applications on some tapes, i couldnt beleive what i was seeing. they should be ashamed of them selves, my teacher told me if i get into a fight and loose i deface him and the art. thats why fighting and applictions are the most important not flash

LizMantis
04-02-2001, 03:57 AM
They leave it out, so people cant go around saying that they train under someone when really they dont. Which sad enough to say people will do that. Which in some ways is really others fought for going around and saying that they ruin it for the rest of us that just want to learn a cool form. One thing though I know its hard because of travel/money/etc. But you what to learn a form bad enough and your Sifu does not know it. Maybe he will know someone that does. (like his/her sifu maybe) And you can learn it through them. Other wise pretty much out of luck. But just train hard on what you know, and good can come.

www.kungfuexchange.com (http://www.kungfuexchange.com)

18elders
04-03-2001, 10:33 PM
you missed Master Shr Jeng Jong of Taiwan and John Scolaro

Hua Lin Laoshi
04-03-2001, 11:47 PM
18elders,
I think he missed a lot more than the just the two you mentioned. BTW, I've heard quite a bit about John Scolaro from a Kung Fu brother and had the opportunity to meet him at Nick Scrima's tournament in St. Pete. A real nice guy. He did a two man set with Steve Otaviano, an ex-Wah Lum Sifu. Do you train with John?

dedboy
04-05-2001, 08:05 PM
Jon Funk is my Si-gong (teacher's teacher). It always amazes how much he is bashed in online forums. I have conflicting feelings about submitting this message: on the one hand, I feel I should stand up for him, and on the other, I feel like forgetting the whole issue would be more in line with the Tao. Argh.

Having touched hands with him once, and having observed him tossing my teachers around like rag dolls, I don't doubt his skills or abilities. However, he is not known for having a reverence for other styles. He has, on various occasions, made denegrating comments about other systems and styles, and this has certainly not endeared him to victims of his remarks.

Funk's technique (labeled in previous submissions in this thread as too 'karate like'), is characteristic of our Wo Hon Fon lineage. 7-star has a long history of arguments between Wo Hon Fon- and Chiu Chi Man- descended players.

Students who desire to train under him should be aware that Funk came up under the brutalistic old-school training methods of Al Cheng. Especially with his senior students, Sigong will not spare blows to communicate the importance of things like structure and the reaction-distance line. These lessons, though harsh, are not easily forgotten.

My suggestion to the potential student is to observe or try a few classes, and try to gauge whether training there would be appropriate for him/her. The benefits of his expansive knowledge and understanding could prove a boon to any player.

18elders
04-05-2001, 09:34 PM
Yes i train with Shr-fu Scolaro. His teacher Shr Jeng Jong was also here for 3 weeks. He taught a nice seminar at John's school and went over alot of history and applications. His knowledge of applications is unbelievable. His teacher will be back in July for a month.

Hua Lin Laoshi
04-08-2001, 08:25 PM
18elders,
Unfortunately I couldn't make for the seminar Friday. It sounded like a very informative seminar. Applications is an area I've been exploring quite a bit lately. More than I have in the past. Especially the mantis side of Wah Lum. I believe there are a lot of 'hidden' applications I haven't found yet in the forms I've learned in the past. I've been taking my current knowledge and going back over old forms to see if I can find anything new. I'm discovering some interesting things that I missed when I first learned the form. Progress in the Martial Arts isn't always about learning new forms or material. Sometimes it's just taking what you already know to a new level.