WSL tribute video

[sihing]

Just thought I'd pass this down, good tribute video one of my students made of Wong Shun Leung.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97VrWj4ApTI&videos=poMOC66RkcA .

Also, Ernie put up a clip of WSL and David Peterson training some chi sau back in the day,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvfCJHyui0&videos=hsAzOA-hA0Q

Enjoy:)

James

[k gledhill]

Nice...:D the chi-sao looks familar even today...:D

[Ultimatewingchun]

Yeah....WSL was one of the very best !!!

[tigershorty]

you gotta be good when your soundtrack is Jay-Z

[chusauli]

You can clearly see how much better WSL was in the Chi Sao with David Petersen because of the hip motion and body structure. His pushing, pulling, wedging, and pivoting off balance threw David about easily because David was very weak in body structure and shows a high center of gravity, as well as propensity to turn, which WSL was easily able to capitalize upon by adding on to his shifting and taking his shoulder line. WSL's hands were not that varied, but his body structure prevalent in the clip. It was the WSL that I met in HK in 1987 and later in SF in '91 or so.

Thank you for sharing.

[k gledhill]

Good thing we don't fight this way and are only developing ourselves to fight.

[t_niehoff]

Good thing we don't fight this way and are only developing ourselves to fight.

Yes, it makes great sense to put in all the work/practice to learn those contact skills (sticking, bridge control, body structure, pushing, pulling, wedging, breaking your opponent's structure, etc.) to not do any of that when fighting. ;)

[k gledhill]

Yes, it makes great sense to put in all the work/practice to learn those contact skills (sticking, bridge control, body structure, pushing, pulling, wedging, breaking your opponent's structure, etc.) to not do any of that when fighting. ;)

we don't start fighting from the chi sao drill with both arms extended.....but you knew that.

[t_niehoff]

we don't start fighting from the chi sao drill with both arms extended.....but you knew that.

I don't know of anyone who ever said that you did.

To fight from contact (and use contact skills), you must first get contact . . . but you knew that.

[k gledhill]

I don't know of anyone who ever said that you did.

To fight from contact (and use contact skills), you must first get contact . . . but you knew that.

you still dont understand ....we use contact to develop our force to support punches etc...IF we get intercepted as we attack from no pre-contact , we then try to have 'reflex' from chi-sao drills and pre fighting drills to INSTANTLY remove it to have no contact again, when the hands are free they strike...not to remain contacted from that point with upper body giving up its center for a false sense of security over trapping, over feeling, chasing hands everywhere ... 'touching hands' ..like YOU do :D

the arms are developing how to circumnavigate attempts to stop us hitting ...we dont fight arms ;) you do :D

funny but sticking hands really is an ironic term for a system devoted to NOT trying to let a guy stick to our hands :D I want your hips to be facing 90 deg either direction to me facing you...how are you going to dirty clinch that ?

Riddle me that faat man !

[bennyvt]

Hey Robert, while your naming all the things david did wrong, are they the same mistakes or different ones that allowed WSL to throw you around. Considering you look alot bigger then david and atleast twice WSL, would you consider your mistakes bigger or just different from Daivd,
thanks for sharing.:D

[t_niehoff]

you still dont understand ....


No, I understand exactly what you are and have been saying. It's a lovely theory.



we use contact to develop our force to support punches etc...


I see, "we" use contact in practice to not use contact when we fight. Got it. :)



IF we get intercepted as we attack from no pre-contact , we then try to have 'reflex' from chi-sao drills and pre fighting drills to INSTANTLY remove it to have no contact again,


Lovely. Brilliant. Amazing.



when the hands are free they strike...


Again, brilliant! I hope your opponent doesn't think of that too. Free hands can hit. What a revelation.



not to remain contacted from that point with upper body giving up its center for a false sense of security over trapping, over feeling, chasing hands everywhere ... 'touching hands' ..like YOU do :D


You mean doing things like Wong was doing in that video? Oh, OK.



the arms are developing how to circumnavigate attempts to stop us hitting ...we dont fight arms ;) you do :D


You mean like Wong was doing in that video?



funny but sticking hands really is an ironic term for a system devoted to NOT trying to let a guy stick to our hands :D I want your hips to be facing 90 deg either direction to me facing you...how are you going to dirty clinch that ?

Riddle me that faat man !

Gosh, it never occurred to me that someone could try to get to my flank or get an angle on me. No one has ever thought of that before! Amazing. You had better hope that boxers and muay thai fighters never learn that secret. Then they'd just move to a flank or an angle and the other fighter would be defenseless. Wow! And, hope that grapplers never figure it out either.

And, with your amazing strategy of "I want your hips to be facing 90 deg either direction to me facing you" you could stop all single/double leg shots too. That's simply f#cking awesome.

Your theory is dynamite.

[k gledhill]

Your responses reveal a lot about your lack of understanding what WSL IS doing in the video...
Maybe one day you will get a first hand intro to sparring with VT :D hahahha oh! the joy to be there :D maybe be the one.
Guys come up with all kinds of chi-sao ideas to fight ..ive heard of western boxing chi-sao too..guys roll a bit then do boxing swings :D some guys roll 3 times then 'go for it ' chortle....

Fighting in chi-sao isnt the idea...chi-sao competitions :confused: anyway whatever floats your boat dude.

All this Theory IS YM/WSL VT ideas , never heard of them ? wonder why ? not curious at all why YOU havent heard this and many others have ?

Just because YOU havent heard it or understand it means little really...your ego seems unable to let go of its thin veil of self delusion.


try understanding the centerline thoery 'joan sien' one hand always stays on the line to protect it. Never heard that ? facing to achieve ability to strike equally with either arm so you can have one hand always guarding the line attacking ...heard that ?

this 'theory' as you call it ..might.. require learning to incorporate simultaneous striking and defending along the.......centerline. go figure, why we do all the drills to be able to achieve this...dan chi...poon sao/lok sao..etc....

chi-sao 2 arm extension isnt that idea ..we rotate arms to strike and cycle in mutual drills to fight from no pre-contact using.....centerline theory. the drills develop the requirements of centerline fighting.

all a mystery to you huh ? all 2 armed dirty clinch fighting just like the drills ? really .

[t_niehoff]

All this Theory IS YM/WSL VT ideas , never heard of them ? wonder why ? not curious at all why YOU havent heard this and many others have ?

Just because YOU havent heard it or understand it means little really...your ego seems unable to let go of its thin veil of self delusion.


Let's be clear: this theory isn't from Yip Man or WSL, it is from Bayer. He should take all the credit/blame. There is absolutely no evidence that YM taught Bayer's "idea". We can look at all of YM's students and see that no one, not even WSL, promote Bayer's "idea." If YM taught this "idea" then we'd expect to see someone, anyone, teaching it. Yet we don't. Except Bayer (who didn't train with Yip).

If we look at all of WSL's prominent students. Lam (who trained with Wong for over 15 years, was his assistant instructor for almost half that time, fought, etc.), Peterson, Wan, etc. we see that none of them promote Bayer's "idea".

The only person teaching Bayer's "idea" is Bayer (and his followers).



try understanding the centerline thoery 'joan sien' one hand always stays on the line to protect it. Never heard that ? facing to achieve ability to strike equally with either arm so you can have one hand always guarding the line attacking ...heard that ?

this 'theory' as you call it ..might.. require learning to incorporate simultaneous striking and defending along the.......centerline. go figure, why we do all the drills to be able to achieve this...dan chi...poon sao/lok sao..etc....

chi-sao 2 arm extension isnt that idea ..we rotate arms to strike and cycle in mutual drills to fight from no pre-contact using.....centerline theory. the drills develop the requirements of centerline fighting.

all a mystery to you huh ? all 2 armed dirty clinch fighting just like the drills ? really .

You have an extremely limited and low-level grasp of the centerline. And, your idea of practicing X to do Y shows you also have a poor grasp of how we develop physical skills.

[k gledhill]

Let's be clear: this theory isn't from Yip Man or WSL, it is from Bayer. He should take all the credit/blame. There is absolutely no evidence that YM taught Bayer's "idea". We can look at all of YM's students and see that no one, not even WSL, promote Bayer's "idea." If YM taught this "idea" then we'd expect to see someone, anyone, teaching it. Yet we don't. Except Bayer (who didn't train with Yip).

If we look at all of WSL's prominent students. Lam (who trained with Wong for over 15 years, was his assistant instructor for almost half that time, fought, etc.), Peterson, Wan, etc. we see that none of them promote Bayer's "idea".

The only person teaching Bayer's "idea" is Bayer (and his followers).



You have an extremely limited and low-level grasp of the centerline. And, your idea of practicing X to do Y shows you also have a poor grasp of how we develop physical skills.

that's where your wrong..being a wellbound frog. you need to get out more.
there is a common idea that some hit and miss ...how much is for you to guage. not all students assimilate info the same as the next...they might like 'playing' chi-sao more than fighting.

I have seen the same line of thought from G Lam sifu students too...so not sure what YOUR talking about.
The system is abstract so many can't see the goals for the drills varying specialities. some don't do prefighting drills and stay fighting in chi- sao ....leading to your ideas.

keep an open mind faat man...you never know what may fall into that well.

[t_niehoff]

that's where your wrong..being a wellbound frog. you need to get out more.


I've been around WCK for almost 30 years now, and have seen quite a bit -- loads more than you obviously.



there is a common idea that some hit and miss ...how much is for you to guage. not all students assimilate info the same as the next...they might like 'playing' chi-sao more than fighting.


And some like fantasies, ideas, and theories.



I have seen the same line of thought from G Lam sifu students too...so not sure what YOUR talking about.


Here's a starting point for you:

http://www.garylamwingchun.com/index.php?view=article&catid=34%3Aarticles&id=68%3Agary-lam-wing-chun-an-introduction-by-gregory-e-leblanc&option=com_content&Itemid=113

Doesn't sound much like Bayer does he?

And, as I recall Peterson himself pointed out on this forum that your view of WSL's teachings was very limited.



The system is abstract so many can't see the goals for the drills varying specialities. some don't do prefighting drills and stay fighting in chi- sao ....leading to your ideas.


I have no idea what "prefighting drills" are -- if you are talking about the non-contact aspect of fighting, the WCK curriculum has drills, like dap sao (from YKS) or mun sao (from some YM people), that pertain to moving from non-contact to contact. These drills, like chi sao, are not fighting; they teach the actions/skills that then need to be trained in fighting.



keep an open mind faat man...you never know what may fall into that well.

People with loony ideas frequently tell others to "keep an open mind."

[k gledhill]

time is no guarantee of anything ...so 30 years means little. ..quality not quantity.

there is a common idea, you havent seen it yet obviously. keep looking

sometimes when people say keep an open mind , thats all it means...try it.

you always try to twist things so you have an argument,or try to undermine a person to make yourself seem more plausible, lawyers eh...

wont change that what you know isnt all there is, or you would understand what Im saying easily...

Im not the only one who does this way :D

I can see it being developed in the DP/WSl clip..you cant.

I have trained with GL students and seen a common idea....you dont, and like a lot of VT students YOU 'read' what you understand VT to be into the GL website intro.

iow you read 'tan sao' and think 'block with hand up', I think 'strike' using 'elbow spreads off line'.

you dont understand my WSL/PB thinking....you cant, simple. It has to be explained with actions.
But you choose to treat it as an attack on your precious 30years !..how can the great terenzeny not know it all ? impossible ! hah...keep walking.