Relation of Lee Kong's white crane with wing chun and weng chun

[argaelus]

If you see the sap yee jeet lik form, mainly, of Lee Kong's White Crane, you can see a lot of movements shared with the form Sap Yat Kuen of Shaolin Weng Chun.

The master of Lee Kong, master Cheng Man Lung (鄭文龍) also spent three years to learn White Crane form another master called “Sifu Hairdresser”(梳頭師) in Hong Kong. It's said that “Sifu Hairdresser” ,an unknowed master, was a master from Yong Chun.
Or the reality is that Cheng Man Lung learn Yong Chun (Weng Chun, not wing chun) from “Sifu Hairdresser”?.

Then, the Weng Chun was an unknowed style and it's possible that Weng Chun was confused with Yong Chun White Crane.

Has the Lee Kong's White Crane an influence of Shaolin Weng Chun???


In http://mnrbszb.mnrb.net/html/2009-11/11/content_46384.htm you can see a pic of Cheng Man Lung with masters of Shaolin Weng Chun Chu Chung Man, Tang master, ....

The Lee Kong's White Crane also train with de same Wooden Dummy of Wing Chun/Shaolin Weng Chun and has a similar chi sao.

What's your opinion?

http://www.jianpaibaihequan.tk//

[Hendrik]

The case has been closed years ago.

yes, we have communicated / investigate with Lee Kong, Emei's Fu Wei Chong, and CLF other Southern Fist to come to the following Conclusion:



By facts of DNA/Signatures:


1, the so called Shao Lin Weng Chun from Red boat ( Not the Shao Lin White Crane Weng Chun from fujian) are a mix of White Crane from Fujian + CLF with some other Southern fist style such as Hung Gar.


2, WING CHUN is Core on a fusion of White Crane From Fujian + Emei ;and then evolve with other Southern fist style mix as time goes by in the Red boat.

Today, some so called WING CHUN which is not look very Wing Chun is due to the lost of Emei components.

Yes, Even IP Man Wing Chun has the Emei components which makes the Wing Chun not White Crane from Fujian or a mix of White Crane from Fujian + Southern First.

3, The so called Shao Lin Wing CHun in South East Asia in general is an evolution of Wing Chun with missing Emei Signature or fade away Emei signature.

For example, some called WCK in South East Asia has lost the Emei Signature but left with Some White Crane from Fujian + CLF and some other Southern fist such as Hung Gar.

So, it is true that as soon as the missing components from Emei inject into these South East Asia WCK, it looks and operate WCK immediately.

It is a misleading if one claim one has an older WCK from Red Boat but without the Emei Signature. Actually, it is contrary, when the Emei signature is missing, then it is an evolution of WCK instead of the Red boat type.



Thus, the Tan Sau Ng who is from shao lin Creating WCK Story doesnt hold because today's WCK from Ip Man to KuLo...etc has that signature that only Emei has it. That is because no matter how long want could evolve the art, as soon as it doesnt have the Emei components it is like H20 or H2 without O will not become Water no matter how many H one keep adding.


and lately:

There exist another evolution such as the one seen in the Ip Man movies lately, Those are some White Crane + a little Emei shifted towards western boxing and TKD...etc


and the SAGA of WCK continous.

go a head and dig deep and see for yourself if that is the fact.

[RB93SAAT]

The Lee Kong's White Crane also train with de same Wooden Dummy of Wing Chun/Shaolin Weng Chun and has a similar chi sao.

What's your opinion?.
It may be time to get together and compare notes.


By facts of DNA/Signatures:
Are you now the referee? You're becoming more than you imagined.


Today, some so called WING CHUN which is not look very Wing Chun is due to the lost of Emei components
Nonsense.


Yes, Even IP Man Wing Chun has the Emei components
Nonsense.

[argaelus]

The question about Lee Kong' white crane is, Who was “Sifu Hairdresser”(梳頭師)?

Cheng Man Lung (鄭文龍) a Master of Yong Chun White Crane (from Zhangzhou city ) went to Hong Kong a studied 3 years under “Sifu Hairdresser”(梳頭師).

Now the style of Lee Kong, student of Cheng Man Lung, is different of the White Crane of Zhangzhou.
Which was the style of “Sifu Hairdresser”(梳頭師) who taught to Cheng Man Lung, and What was the name of “Sifu Hairdresser”(梳頭師)?

http://www.jianpaibaihequan.tk/

[fan]

What's with all these mysterious Emei signatures in a public forum?

Is it some marketing tantalization?

Or a research thread which need more examination and scrutiny?

[No disrespect intended, just simple questions from a newbie.]

[Hendrik]

What's with all these mysterious Emei signatures in a public forum?

Is it some marketing tantalization?

Or a research thread which need more examination and scrutiny?

[No disrespect intended, just simple questions from a newbie.]



There is no mysterious on Emei signature.

if one truely study Chinese martial art history and styles one knows.



To some, before even know what is what, With the attitude here calling things nonsense....etc.

Great, if one want to be kept oneself blind as a fool. that is fine.

[Wayfaring]

There is no mysterious on Emei signature.

if one truely study Chinese martial art history and styles one knows.


If one truly studies Chinese martial art history they will be infused with a healthy acceptance of the fact that a large portion of Chinese martial art history is undocumented.

However most researchers pursue proving a particular theory, and then stop at that. While hypothesis testing is a valid statistical method, usually that's not what people do when "researching".

Which just further goes to illustrate the fact that all history is written by historic authors who have a certain bias.

[Hendrik]

if you would like to choose an anti-society attitude towards everything that is fine.

Just not to forgot there are people and group like Lee Kong's Group, White Crane in Fujian, CLF group, and Emei group that tracing 100 years of history is as easy as reading their bank account or phone number from the phone book.

Check it out.


WCK root is as simple as if one knows the elements of a softdrink one will be able to synthesis it.
and if one doesnt know the elements of WCK then what does one study? since nothing comes from thin air.

It looks very dodo bird when the whole world such as the White Crane, the Emei, the CLF people knows where one copy their stuffs; and one keeps argue one's art is from some great but unexisted master.

Seriously, we must wake up otherwise WCK will be gone within next two decades.




If one truly studies Chinese martial art history they will be infused with a healthy acceptance of the fact that a large portion of Chinese martial art history is undocumented.

However most researchers pursue proving a particular theory, and then stop at that. While hypothesis testing is a valid statistical method, usually that's not what people do when "researching".

Which just further goes to illustrate the fact that all history is written by historic authors who have a certain bias.

[Wayfaring]

if you would like to choose an anti-society attitude towards everything that is fine.

That's a real Superman attitude - leaping large portions of logic at a single bound.

All I'm saying there is that most scientists that are worth anything have a healthy respect for their limitation of knowledge within their field.

I must have touched on a sore spot with you.



Just not to forgot there are people and group like Lee Kong's Group, White Crane in Fujian, CLF group, and Emei group that tracing 100 years of history is as easy as reading their bank account or phone number from the phone book.

Check it out.

Sure. And there's two cousins on my mother's side that very adamantly track and collect family tree information. I'm just lucky - many families don't have these kinds of cousins.



WCK root is as simple as if one knows the elements of a softdrink one will be able to synthesis it.
and if one doesnt know the elements of WCK then what does one study? since nothing comes from thin air.

Geez. Do you teach math and physics too? I'm sure there's a long line of people lining up to hear from the one who can explain complexities all in one simple formula.

If you view WCK from the moon it has one element. From 15,000 feet 3. But when you actually need to use it to fight, you might need a little more detail.



It looks very dodo bird when the whole world such as the White Crane, the Emei, the CLF people knows where one copy their stuffs; and one keeps argue one's art is from some great but unexisted master.
I'm arguing nothing of the sort. Again, Superman leaping large portions of logic there.

And I really feel for families that don't have cousins like mine to track their family tree. They are doomed to extinction like the dodo bird. Just don't tell them that though - because they might just defy all odds and actually live on.

[Wayfaring]

Seriously, we must wake up otherwise WCK will be gone within next two decades.

All you need to keep WCK from being gone within the next two decades is someone to model what the small family from Brazil named Gracie did.

You know, actually learn to fight with it. Test it and prove it.

That's why you have WCK schools closing or having 2-3 students, and mediocre BJJ schools with 50 students.

Or I guess we could go with your method, and have everyone agree that WCK comes from Emei and white crane. I'm sure your method will really ensure WCK's survival through the next generations. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[tigershorty]

Well said wayfaring.

Also, if you checked some of These user's ip addresses, I have a feeling they'd have some identical matches.

[Hendrik]

Lot's of twisted logic and argue to winning arguement.

The bottom line is does one still do WCK or not? how can one know?
if one doesnt even know, then what to argue?

It is a root dna discussion dont have to lead into something else.

[Wayfaring]

WCK root is as simple as if one knows the elements of a softdrink one will be able to synthesis it.

So fulfull your claim and explain the WCK root and synthesis as simply as a softdrink.

I've been reading your posts for years and haven't yet seen it. All I've ever seen was you back up 10 yards and punt saying "go bai si to someone who knows". But you won't say who they are you recommend. And the only person I know who knows you say doesn't have genuine history.

So there's the dilemma.

Plus, you were the one that brought up the survival of WCK to the next generations.

[Wayfaring]

The other dilemma is you say someone has the WCK elements so go bai si to them.

Someone asks "can they fight"? There's a lot of shuffling around. They don't fight. Someone asks "well can anyone they train fight"? More shuffling around.

So apparantly the only person around here who trains anyone that can fight is Robert Chu. Which we have so many people here saying he doesn't know WCK, shady past, incomplete training, etc.

Which leads us to the dilemma of what exactly then is WCK good for? Meditation?

[Wayfaring]

Next will come a post about how the only dilemma is in my mind. Is it? Well only if you consider my mind as a good representation of empirical evidence.

[RB93SAAT]

To some, before even know what is what, With the attitude here calling things nonsense....etc.

incomplete training = incomplete system

incomplete wing chun + incomplete emie + incomplete white crane = Yik Kam slt

Yik Kam slt = incomplete MMA

incomplete MMA = nonsense

[Hendrik]

incomplete training = incomplete system

incomplete wing chun + incomplete emie + incomplete white crane = Yik Kam slt

Yik Kam slt = incomplete MMA

incomplete MMA = nonsense



Great opinion.

[Wayfaring]

The other dilemma is you say someone has the WCK elements so go bai si to them.

Someone asks "can they fight"? There's a lot of shuffling around. They don't fight. Someone asks "well can anyone they train fight"? More shuffling around.

So apparantly the only person around here who trains anyone that can fight is Robert Chu. Which we have so many people here saying he doesn't know WCK, shady past, incomplete training, etc.

Which leads us to the dilemma of what exactly then is WCK good for? Meditation?

Revisiting. I do not believe this about the art of WCK. I believe it has more to offer. However, there is absolutely an empirical side of reasoning that has to be maintained throughout this, otherwise there is nothing measurable about the art at all.

And without anything empirical, all you really have is a bunch of windbags with an opinion, and stories about how such-and-such could really "handle" people back in the day.

So "white crane"? Who cares? Anyone who has lived on a farm and had chicken for dinner is completely aware that a bird that is not of the raptor variety is not particularly well equipped for fighting purposes.

The ending to "Karate Kid" is not particularly realistic. Got that there Daniel-san?

[RB93SAAT]

Just not to forgot there are people and group like Lee Kong's Group, White Crane in Fujian, CLF group, and Emei group that tracing 100 years of history is as easy as reading their bank account or phone number from the phone book.

Is that so? Then why didn't you answer this question.
What was the name of “Sifu Hairdresser”(梳頭師)?


Great, if one want to be kept oneself blind as a fool. that is fine.

A fool! Were you talking about yourself boy?