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Taijimantis
09-10-2000, 03:58 AM
Tai Chi Praying Mantis has many weapons like most Kungfu styles.

I am presently not training due to my acedemic and personal life situation. So I am unable to ask my Sifu many of these questions directly.

Grand master Chiu was very skilled with the umbrella and the whip chain.

Does TCPM use the 7 section or 9 section whip chain?

Does any one have footage of this form I could disect for photographs?
(copies of course)

And on a side note does anyone know a martial arts supplier that would sell a combat quality umbrella?

Namaste.

bitesfirst
09-10-2000, 04:52 AM
I have never heard of a "combat umbrella". Could you give any other info on this weapon? I would recomend www.martialartsmart.com (http://www.martialartsmart.com) for weapons and I know they have a chain whip video.

Taijimantis
09-10-2000, 06:42 AM
Martialartsmart has stuff from the Bejing Wushu team, not a traditional TCPM form.

But no worries, I located some footage of the form, there were a couple of moves I wanted to illustrate.

One is the "wrap" and the other is the finish where the whip is shot straight up to the air like a rocket, and then it falls straight back down into the users hand, completely folded.

I guess, what I am asking is where I can find a good heavy duty umbrella. My Sifu's #1 did the form for a competition in April, but couldnt do the "opening" techniques because the frame could not withstand such harsh abuse from rapid combat type movements.

Anyone ever see an umbrella form? Its pretty cool!

namaste.

cha kuen
09-10-2000, 12:43 PM
TCPM uses the regular 9 section chain whip. The form is no different from the northern shaolin ones. The moves are the same , just in different order with slight differences.

olkat314
09-10-2000, 07:02 PM
Where is the umbrella form from? Is it the Hung Gar form I've heard, or does other systems have it?

What is its name and what kind of teachers would know it?

Tak

ShaolinMantis
09-10-2000, 08:12 PM
I have a old picture of Sigung in a stance holding a whip chain. I do not think this picture is in the wooden dummy book. But From the background it is most likly from the same shooting, as the ones of him with a Gim, and some other varid stances

Taijimantis
09-10-2000, 11:17 PM
Yes, I believe I know the photo you are talking about.

My Sifu knows the umbrella form. He taught it to his student for a competition because he said "no one else will know this or do this."

I dont know of anyone else who could teach this form. I will ask the name of it when I get back to class...

mantis108
09-10-2000, 11:33 PM
Hi All,

ShaolinMantis,

Yes, those pictures you mentioned were shot in Vietnam in front of one of the Vietnam Chin Wu Branch.

The Whip Chain which he used is 7 sections including the tip piece and the handle.

Taijimantis,

The move you mentioned is the closing movement "collecting the whip". It is perhaps the most difficult to master dispite of it seemingly easy. I and many other practice this move every practice section. We look at the performer after the full set is done. If the whip were loosely collected. All the great effort before are but wasted. So, work on that one really well. A tip or two: get a customized or semi customized whip and don't leave home without it. Get use to its weight and "feel" that it is part of your body - an extention. Also, don't pull or yank the chain, let it "fold" into your palm.

Beside that, practice, pratice and more practice.

Have fun.

Mantis108


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Contraria Sunt Complementa

ShaolinMantis
09-10-2000, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cha kuen:
TCPM uses the regular 9 section chain whip. The form is no different from the northern shaolin ones. The moves are the same , just in different order with slight differences.[/quote]

I rememeber seeing a sihing from Fong Sisuk's school ( S.F.) do this form. It is very close to a Bei Shaolin set I learned.

ShaolinMantis
09-10-2000, 11:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mantis108:
Hi All,


Taijimantis,

The move you mentioned is the closing movement "collecting the whip". It is perhaps the most difficult to master dispite of it seemingly easy.

Mantis108


[/quote]

Yes that move is very tricky to get correct.

I did not know about a custom chain, That would be helpful. The one I learned with is an old heavy job, I have knocked myself more than once with that. OCHHHH!!!!!

ShaolinMantis
09-10-2000, 11:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mantis108:

The move you mentioned is the closing movement "collecting the whip
[/quote]

Speaking of a closing folding movement. In a bei shaolin set 3 section staff set there is also this type of closing. Is there the same in the TCPM set? I have only seen the two man version of the 3 sectional.

ShaolinMantis
09-11-2000, 12:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShaolinMantis:
I rememeber seeing a sihing from Fong Sisuk's school ( S.F.) do this form. It is very close to a Bei Shaolin set I learned.[/quote]

Back to the whip chain. thinking back to my Sihing's set, there is a move in the Northern Shaolin version , where we wrap the chain around the foot a bit then shoot it forward like a spear. Is that also in the TCMP?

I will ask about the umbrella set. When I asked a SiSuk about the fan set , he said it is basicly a gim set. I wonder if the umbrella set is and adapted cane set?

mantis108
09-11-2000, 12:30 AM
The three sectional staff is a cool set to do too.

The open and closing are just as cool. I used to have fear of flexible weapons but now I love them all. The trick is good balance and footwork. The rope dart is especially cool looking. Sigung could made a whip (rope) out of a rope dart and also he would tie the rope to his body so that with one pull the rope would open. It would not tangle up and it would clear the body. These are some of the stuff he knew while he was guarding the Caravans. As far as I undstand that the rope dart is a very versetile weapon and life saving tool. It was popular amount the caravan security tradesmen.

Mantis108

sorry about the gammartical mistakes.
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Contraria Sunt Complementa

[This message has been edited by mantis108 (edited 09-11-2000).]

ShaolinMantis
09-11-2000, 01:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mantis108:
The three sectional staff is a cool set to do too.

. The rope dart is especially cool looking. Sigung had made a whip (rope) out of a rope dart and also he tied to rope to his body so that with 1 pull the rope would open. it would not tangle up and it would clear the body. These are some of the stuff he knew while he was guarding the Caravans. As far as I undstand that the rope dart is a very versetile weapon and live saving tool. It was popular amount the caravan security tradesmen.

Mantis108


[/quote]

From a story I heard this rope dart is what saved him once in a battle with a Bandit who knew praying mantis, who was after him with a sword to finish him off. This was what got him interested in learning Praying Mantis afterwards.

Taijimantis
09-11-2000, 06:27 AM
Guys! These are stories you need to send me!
These are things that will detail my biography extremely well!

Mantis 108;
Tho I would love to learn the whip chain form, I cannot. Sifu wants to teach it, but I think it will be reserved for some of his higer ranking students, and I am among the lowest. It is by far the most impressive weapon (in my humble opinion)

Any stories about Chiu Chuk Kai should be sent to me @
Taiji Mantis@aol.com


Xie xie ni.

Namaste.