Style Conflict

[YouKnowWho]

What do you do if 2 TCMA styles that you train have principle in conflict? For example,

- In Taiji system, you are not suppose to work on heavy weight. In SC system, you will need to work on heavy weight. If you train both Taiji and SC then which guideline will you follow?

- In SC system when you try to move toward the right (or left) side of your opponent, you move your back foot first and your front foot follow (so you won't cross your legs). In Bagua, when you do that, you move your front foot first (you cross your legs) and you back foot follow. If you train both SC and Bagua then which guideline will you follow?

- In Taiji, you suppose to train slow. In Longfist, you suppose to train fast. Old saying said, "If you don't train Longfist fast, it's better not to train at all". If you train both Taiji and Longfist then which guideline will you follow?

The MMA guys won't have such problem. They select whatever that fit their need and they can't care less about styles. If you want to have loyality to your TCMA style (for some unknown reason, or you are afraid that people may call your style "water down"), what will you do in such situation?

[bawang]

NOE UR RONG
in taijiquan u lift weights and hit fast. u r dum guy

[PalmStriker]

You speak wisely bawang. No confusion in place. :D

[SPJ]

give and take

to specialize in a certain skill sets

you have to give up something in order to gain/take something somewhere else.

yes, if you try to learn more than one style at the same time,

there will be conflicts in postures and training methods in the beginning

but once you are beyond the basics

the constraints or limits in the beginning will be phased out, minimized or smoothed out in the end.

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZa_-AwqClg

ne me quitte pas. slow, sad, heavy and emotions of separation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3taClBTAHTU&feature=related

il condor. light, uplifting, soaring, missing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HmbhBTMk1w

where have the flowers gone? asking Q, answers in the Q. fleeting sadness, heavy thinking, asking why we repeat the mistakes of making wars--

different flavor/style of songs.

french, spanish/itailian, english--

the individual will interprete them differently.

my point is that styles are just different emphases of things. just like songs that are stressing different themes.

:cool:

[David Jamieson]

In the mutilated and modern retarded forms of taichi, it's not recommended you do anything but move through the postures.

this is likely because you are wanting to be totally aware of all the fine motions going on and you don't want to be impeded by the natural bodily process associated with healing from lifting.

but, you could lift and do tai chi quite easily so long as you organized your work outs so that you could still feel the refined motions within the postures as you move through and you could benefit from the resistance training for your muscles from the weight training.

the whole taichi for health only is hippy stuff and it's fine and dandy in context to those who play that.

those people aren't likely to hit the weights anyway for the most part.

I know two tai chi people who actually look at the art as martial. I know many who are hippies and do it so they can have a better standard of living as they age.

it's all good.

[MightyB]

I'm a little MMA. I say do what works within reason and use common sense. Test in application under pressure. If it doesn't work because of lack of practice or lack of refined skill, give it enough time to be fair to the technique, but apply common sense so you don't waste too much time practicing something that will never work.

[MightyB]

What do you do if 2 TCMA styles that you train have principle in conflict? For example,

- In Taiji system, you are not suppose to work on heavy weight. In SC system, you will need to work on heavy weight. If you train both Taiji and SC then which guideline will you follow?

- In SC system when you try to move toward the right (or left) side of your opponent, you move your back foot first and your front foot follow (so you won't cross your legs). In Bagua, when you do that, you move your front foot first (you cross your legs) and you back foot follow. If you train both SC and Bagua then which guideline will you follow?

- In Taiji, you suppose to train slow. In Longfist, you suppose to train fast. Old saying said, "If you don't train Longfist fast, it's better not to train at all". If you train both Taiji and Longfist then which guideline will you follow?

The MMA guys won't have such problem. They select whatever that fit their need and they can't care less about styles. If you want to have loyality to your TCMA style (for some unknown reason, or you are afraid that people may call your style "water down"), what will you do in such situation?

SC has it right in pretty much all situations - and Chen isn't slow, just crazy Yang hippies. IMO, the internal guys don't get out much. SC is tested under pressure - they do what really works, not what they think will work. Chen Village wrestling looks more like SC or Judo, and not Yang push hands... answers the question of Fast vs Slow, how 'bout a little of both, besides, Chen is the Mother. Bagua sounds like they concentrate on a turn and entering approach that most hip throws are built around. But that only works when you make contact and are initiating the throw. To constantly move lead leg first is a sure fire way to get sweeped on your bottom.

SC isn't doing weight lifting - the practices you highlight in your SC videos are sport specific weight bearing exercises. It's a field that's rapidly growing in the sports science community and it's been proven to work in every sport.

[lkfmdc]

- In Taiji system, you are not suppose to work on heavy weight. In SC system, you will need to work on heavy weight. If you train both Taiji and SC then which guideline will you follow?



To state the obvious, WHO says you aren't supposed to work with weight in internal systems? Sun Lu Tang had an entire book dedicated to conditioning for internal stylists

I think we both know that Taiji has a lot of wrestling applications, I mean REAL push hands isn't the fairy crap we see here in the US! People who say they do TCMA really don't know what TCMA is




- In Taiji, you suppose to train slow. In Longfist, you suppose to train fast. Old saying said, "If you don't train Longfist fast, it's better not to train at all". If you train both Taiji and Longfist then which guideline will you follow?



In my "kickboxing" classes I constantly tell people to go slow. NEVER say "go fast". To learn a skill you go slow, once you have mastered the skill, you go fast. This is the REAL taiji way (ie CHEN). To say train fast OR slow is to say train only left or right

One of biggest things holding TCMA back is old BS spouted by people who know nothing

[Dragonzbane76]

I'm a little MMA. I say do what works within reason and use common sense. Test in application under pressure. If it doesn't work because of lack of practice or lack of refined skill, give it enough time to be fair to the technique, but apply common sense so you don't waste too much time practicing something that will never work.

good post.


One of biggest things holding TCMA back is old BS spouted by people who know nothing

couldn't agree more.

[SanHeChuan]

My teacher quotes his teacher Madame Wong, as saying; When doing "insert style" do "insert Style", when doing "other style" do "other style".

In other words be true to the style you are practicing while you’re practicing it.

But in situations where style isn't important such as fighting, you choose what works best. Every method as a strength and a weakness (some more weakness), knowing the reasons behind the method (the strength and weakness) will help you make the right choice at the right time.

In long fist you point the toe and knee forward in the Gong Jian Bu "stance".
To protect the knee?
In Mantis you point the toe and knee inward 45 degrees.
To protect the groin?

Which method do you use?
When doing long fist do long fist when doing Mantis do Mantis.
Otherwise choose based on preference and threat.

[YouKnowWho]

- In long fist you point the toe and knee forward in the Gong Jian Bu "stance".
To protect the knee?
- In Mantis you point the toe and knee inward 45 degrees.
To protect the groin?

In SC you point the toe and knee outward 45 degree to achieve the maximum body rotation.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3299/oldpic222.jpg

Adam Hsu once commented a guy, "Your form was so perfect that you did 6 bow-arrow stance in your form and they all looked identical". That guy was very happy and thought Adam gave him positive comment.

This kind of difference may fall into the "application difference" and not "principle difference".


In my "kickboxing" classes I constantly tell people to go slow. NEVER say "go fast".

What you called "slow" may be fast for others. Some people train in "turtle walking speed". It takes 5 seconds to throw a simple jab. To me, that's too slow.

[SanHeChuan]

A principal like a rule is made to be broken.

It's a learning tool and once you understand it you no longer have to strictly adhere to it.

If your foot work says never cross your feet, you learn to move without crossing your feet and you learn why it’s important. Once that lesson is learned you find out sometimes you can cross your feet, but only at the appropriate time.

With tai chi you start out practicing slow, but once you have learned the lessons practicing slow has to offer you do it faster.

You don’t lift weights because it causes tension in the muscle when you’re trying to learn how to moved relaxed, once you learn how to do that, lifting weights is no longer a problem.

[Shaolin]

Don't take the "style literal". Styles, forms, techniques are just a template to create a basis from which you create your own "style". Eventually the forms and techniques disappear and you are left with theory and concept, take that and just move freely.