Inquiry about Bak Fu Pai

[YellaDragon]

Hello brothers and sisters of the arts,

I hope all of you are well as always. I read through some of the history of Bak Fu Pai as addressed in this forum but, unfortunately, much of the material there dissolved to personal attacks, criticisms, etc. upon fellow artists so I present this once again in hopes of obtaining insightful knowledge. I would like to know if anyone has trained / currently trains in this art? Also, has anyone trained / trains at the White Tiger Kung Fu school? I would like to find out your opinion about the systems effectiveness versus other styles you may have encountered? Also, is the Iron Palm taught to be utilized in self defense situations or just for personal accomplishment / advancement? Thank you and continue your pursuit of enlightenment.

Best regards,

YellaDragon

[David Jamieson]

Why? Why must you pick at the scabs? Do they itch that bad? :D

[YellaDragon]

Why? Why must you pick at the scabs? Do they itch that bad? :D

Well David, I was hoping that some folks would be able to assist me in obtaining core knowledge of my inquiry as opposed to typewriter abuse upon one another lol

[doug maverick]

oh lawd here we go again...

[Yum Cha]

bwahahahahahahahahahahahaa,,,gih, gih, gih, bwahahahahahahahahahahaha....gih, gih, gih....bwahahahahahahahahahahahaa,,,gih, gih, gih, bwahahahahahahahahahah....gih, gih, gih....bwahahahahahahahahahahahaa,,,gih, gih, gih, bahahahahahahahahah....gih, gih, gih....bwahahahahahahahahahahahaa,,,gih, gih, gih, bwahahahahahahahaaha....gih, gih, gih....

[David Jamieson]

Well David, I was hoping that some folks would be able to assist me in obtaining core knowledge of my inquiry as opposed to typewriter abuse upon one another lol

just google "doo wai" and you're good to go.

[teetsao]

dood,you just picked one of the most controversial subjects in the kung fu community,sorta like asking about green dragon studios,LOL. you will never get a straight answer. i dont think anyone on here studies this art. you will run into alot of he said,they said, stuff. your best bet is to just stay away from it. in my opinion.

[SevenStar]

I recently threw away an old issue of karate / kung fu illustrated from 1986 which had doo wai on the cover. He was talking about the art, but it's been so long since I've read it that I don't recall what he said...I bought it way back then because I was a kid, and he was wearing purple and black, posing with a staff and it look so uber cool and legit. I wanted to train in bok fu pai. those were the nostalgic, impressionable days.

[taai gihk yahn]

why? why can't people just let this go? just let it die; please, please, just let it die...

[Yum Cha]

I recently threw away an old issue of karate / kung fu illustrated from 1986 which had doo wai on the cover. He was talking about the art, but it's been so long since I've read it that I don't recall what he said...I bought it way back then because I was a kid, and he was wearing purple and black, posing with a staff and it look so uber cool and legit. I wanted to train in bok fu pai. those were the nostalgic, impressionable days.

Just say "NO!" :D

[SevenStar]

SWEET!!!!! I found a pic online!


http://ma-mags.com/Mags/KKFI/KKFI%201986-08%20Cov.jpg

[lkfmdc]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/3/5/128807565179690126.jpg

:D

[SevenStar]

Bwahahahahahaha!!

[TAO YIN]

Bak Fu Pai has internal and external forms. It's similar to many southern kung fu styles and I think comes from Changsha...

[Hebrew Hammer]

Yellow Dragon,
Regardless of the martial drama about these schools, I actually have friends who train at both establishments (one at each)...and they seem to be quite happy with it. I do know that White Dragon and Bak Fu Pai, in San Diego have fragmented somewhat from their original organizations and that they tend to be on the more commercial side $$$, looking for long term committments. That's up to you. Are you in San Diego County? From what my friends tell me they train hard and they seem to show some good martial skill. They have both been there for years and are upper level students.

I have checked out both schools myself when searching for a place to train and I can tell you the salesmanship and BS they dished out upfront turned me off. Thats me though...one of the things I liked though is that White Dragon offered you a weekly personal training session. Bak Fu Pai is more adult orientated program and White Dragon is much more kid/family friendly and places a big emphasis on getting your belts, if thats what you want.

Hope that helps...

El Guapo

[David Jamieson]

Bak Fu Pai has internal and external forms. It's similar to many southern kung fu styles and I think comes from Changsha...

it's not at all similar to anything.
have you not seen his demonstrations?

lol.

[hskwarrior]

Is bak Fu Pai's and Bak Mei's bow the same? it looks like it. but i saw the same Heaven Earth and Man bow in his material. LOL

[David Jamieson]

Is bak Fu Pai's and Bak Mei's bow the same? it looks like it. but i saw the same Heaven Earth and Man bow in his material. LOL

right willow leaf palm over a closed fist is a bak mei salute.

[hskwarrior]

The three directions of the bow david, the Heaven Earth and Man bow is not about the shape of positions of the hands. there's an actual pattern to it and he did it. but i just saw in one of his video's he claims it IS similar to Bak Mei, and other systems..."BUT THE TECHNIQUES ARE DIFFERENT-doo wai". LOL

[TAO YIN]

Kung Lek,

It's similar to Bak Mei and has some of the same principles. I haven't seen many demos of it done correctly on the web; maybe there is one or two vids.

It's the politics of it that fuucks it in its own mouth. That's what politics is all about though...shiit partys.

[Yum Cha]

The three directions of the bow david, the Heaven Earth and Man bow is not about the shape of positions of the hands. there's an actual pattern to it and he did it. but i just saw in one of his video's he claims it IS similar to Bak Mei, and other systems..."BUT THE TECHNIQUES ARE DIFFERENT-doo wai". LOL

Hey HSK, is that heaven earth man symbolism part of the Hung Men rituals, or just another incarnation of the taoist '3'?

[YellaDragon]

Good afternoon everyone,

I hope all of you are well. I want to thank everyone for their insight, opinions and honesty. I will continue to research the style and formulate an opinion from that point. I am currently researching Hapkido as well. Thank you again everyone and I hope all of you have a great day.

Best regards,

YellaDragon

[SoCo KungFu]

it's not at all similar to anything.
have you not seen his demonstrations?

lol.

Its kinda similar to epilepsy...

[David Jamieson]

Its kinda similar to epilepsy...

:p

yes, those demonstrations are pretty close to a grand mal seizure.

no offense to epileptics...

[taai gihk yahn]

Its kinda similar to epilepsy...


:p

yes, those demonstrations are pretty close to a grand mal seizure.

no offense to epileptics...

nah - more like chorea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorea_(disease)) or hemiballismus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballism)

[goju]

:p


no offense to epileptics...


thats right it better not be!:mad: :D

[TAO YIN]

Southern Praying Mantis is more epileptic oriented. With Bak Fu Pai, more emphasis is placed on the spoon rather than the tongue.

BRB, just going to go fight an invisible man and think I am a hard cuunt.

[CLFLPstudent]

According to Dr Harout (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html), at "high level" BFP they can resurrect dead insects and small rodents...


Hey bearded freak Jim Lacy....so you finally paid off for the trailer...wow...it took years to pay for the trailer...hahahaha

Now listen to me carefully you and your wannabes, who are claiming to be BFP:

1) If you have trained in BFP as you claim....then post on youtube a clip of breaking a some bricks placed over each other without spaces, on the ground by a single strike from 2-3 inch distance.

2) As for BFP Iron body.....make another clip where someone strikes your belly with the end of a staff...not by the middle part of a staff....and your body should be soft ...not tensed.

3) As for healing chi gung of BFP....you should be able to revive a dead/beheaded insect....after 5 minutes of its beheading

4) You should do all the forms with speed that is usually performed in BFP, provided that each strike should cause a break as I mentioned in point number one...so you can...use the strikes in any form movements to show me two breaks simeltaneously.

As you see am asking simple things....these are done by BFP seniors who are trained under GM Doo Wai.

(emphasis added)

On Wai's infamous Youtube clip where he denounces Lacey ( another lunatic) I ask Harout for proof of their resurrection claims, but of course they will never show this to "outsiders". He then claim's I am ignorant, and I'm silly because I question their 'ability' - here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkKCcKDzYm4) ( I'm yd0137).

Of course, no evidence of this ability is ever shown, and the claim in the first place has to make one wonder about the 'style'....

-David

[Dr.Harut]

You all wait all the year around and come back to attack Bak Fu Pai.

Whether Bak Fu Pai people who followed GM Doo Wai's instructions and am one of them...ressurect insects or break from an inch or transfer energy or more...let it not concern you...you go to your trainings...I go to mine..I believe in what am doing and I witness the results am getting.

People want to learn Bak Fu Pai..they can just google and the offline schools sites will be found on the search engine...if interested then go to the schools directly...whether you like the way they teach or not its up to you...

[David Jamieson]

Here we go. :p

[bawang]

...ressurect insects or break from an inch or transfer energy or more
sounds haram

[David Jamieson]

sounds haram

is not halal

[Dragonzbane76]

I do know that White Dragon and Bak Fu Pai, in San Diego have fragmented somewhat from their original organizations and that they tend to be on the more commercial side $$$, looking for long term committments.

white dragon?? as in Pai Lum white dragon? or no connection?

[taai gihk yahn]

You all wait all the year around and come back to attack Bak Fu Pai.
only when someone asks a question about it - otherwise it doesn't get mentioned; and what do YOU do? miraculously appear to defend it! so, do u just spend the rest of the year lurking, waiting to do so? lol, that's hysterical. so, how's ur USMLE studies going? finding time to squeee that in inbetween ur scanning the forum for any sign of BFP threads?

[lkfmdc]

According to Dr Harout (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html), at "high level" BFP they can resurrect dead insects and small rodents...

He is, after all, a master gerbalist :D

[Yum Cha]

He is, after all, a master gerbalist :D

<rimshot>


1234556

[lkfmdc]

<rimshot>


1234556

I guess you don't remember that one, I know, it was a year ago.....

[CLFLPstudent]

You all wait all the year around and come back to attack Bak Fu Pai.

Whether Bak Fu Pai people who followed GM Doo Wai's instructions and am one of them...ressurect insects or break from an inch or transfer energy or more...let it not concern you...you go to your trainings...I go to mine..I believe in what am doing and I witness the results am getting.

People want to learn Bak Fu Pai..they can just google and the offline schools sites will be found on the search engine...if interested then go to the schools directly...whether you like the way they teach or not its up to you...

How is asking for proof of your resurrection abilities an attack? I never made the claim, I read it on YOUR (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html) forum, posted by YOU nonetheless. I don't care about your coconut cracking thighs ( an old "CHEERS" joke, by the way). I want to see the miraculous!


Like I said on YouTube, it makes you guys look crazy to claim these things, defend the statement by saying 'we will never show proof' and say I am silly for asking for proof.

Dr Harout - hypothetically, if you never trained BFP - but read of it's practitioners ability to bring insects and rodents back to life ( beheaded, no less), and they told you 'heck no, we won't show you proof' would you believe it?

I fear I know the answer.....

-David

[Dr.Harut]

If you call reading this forum lurking...and am asking everybody here...reading the forum threads is called lurking?...and yes, when you attack me or the system am in and believe in it...yes I'd come and reply....why simply because you haven't any clue in its training.

Many of you call chi as life force...but when I say we have certain trainings where we can revive an insect or beheaded insect...(rodents, I am not able yet)...then you suddenly come having an attitude in mind that "who are they to have such "powers"? "...and start your foolish attacks....calling hnot halal or haram....ignorants are you

[Hebrew Hammer]

white dragon?? as in Pai Lum white dragon? or no connection?

They claim lineage to Doc Fai Wong

Here's the school near me. http://www.whitedragonmartialarts.com/

[CLFLPstudent]

If you call reading this forum lurking...and am asking everybody here...reading the forum threads is called lurking?...and yes, when you attack me or the system am in and believe in it...yes I'd come and reply....why simply because you haven't any clue in its training.

Many of you call chi as life force...but when I say we have certain trainings where we can revive an insect or beheaded insect...(rodents, I am not able yet)...then you suddenly come having an attitude in mind that "who are they to have such "powers"? "...and start your foolish attacks....calling hnot halal or haram....ignorants are you

Why is asking for proof of this resurrection ability wrong? It would be simple to video it ( but of course, living in Beirut, there is no such thing as a video camera - right? Isn't that why you never post anything from yourself? But wait - you are a video-student of Doo Wai's, why not use the computer video camera you guy's communicate with to provide this evidence?)

I am honestly surprised you haven't deleted the thread (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html) where you claim this nonsensical ability. But since I copied YOUR post already it would be hard to deny it.

If you feel this is an attack, I apologize, it's just such an incredible claim as resurrection is hard to grasp. You still haven't answered my YouTube question - as a devout Christian, doesn't this ability go against your religious beliefs?

Harout - if you had such "powers", I would bow down and apologize to you and Wai. Give third party non-biased proof of this claim and all is good. Otherwise, like I said on YouTube, you are a clown.

A separate question for you as an Admin on your 'BFP Forum' - Why do you let your sworn enemy Lacey post on there, but I can not seem to be able to register and post? Am I more of an enemy to you than Lacy? Is it Lacy who really posts there? ( not that I care about Lacy, I just want to know why I am unable to register and post)


-David

[Dragonzbane76]

They claim lineage to Doc Fai Wong

Here's the school near me. http://www.whitedragonmartialarts.com/
__________________

no it's different. thought it was connected when you stated the name.

they have a nice website though. :p

[KC Elbows]

So, let me get this straight.

Any story of resurrection is preposterous and deserves immediate debunking until proof is provided?:D

[David Jamieson]

So, let me get this straight.

Any story of resurrection is preposterous and deserves immediate debunking until proof is provided?:D

Of course and because the idea of it is ludicrous and contrary to physical reality.

But when you are talking about something that happened a long time ago, that you weren't present for and don't actually have any historical document to confirm or deny it, for some reason, people give that merit.

go figure. lol :D

[SoCo KungFu]

Of course and because the idea of it is ludicrous and contrary to physical reality.

But when you are talking about something that happened a long time ago, that you weren't present for and don't actually have any historical document to confirm or deny it, for some reason, people give that merit.

go figure. lol :D

ichi ni san yon go.....

[diego]

Why do you guys practise reviving insects?. Are you trying to lower blood pressure or something... holla at ya boy. ;)

[David Jamieson]

If you call reading this forum lurking...and am asking everybody here...reading the forum threads is called lurking?...and yes, when you attack me or the system am in and believe in it...yes I'd come and reply....why simply because you haven't any clue in its training.

Many of you call chi as life force...but when I say we have certain trainings where we can revive an insect or beheaded insect...(rodents, I am not able yet)...then you suddenly come having an attitude in mind that "who are they to have such "powers"? "...and start your foolish attacks....calling hnot halal or haram....ignorants are you

Thick...


seriously, "powers"?

P.S resurrecting dead insects is haraam and you know it. You are in Lebanon after all.

[KC Elbows]

Of course and because the idea of it is ludicrous and contrary to physical reality.

But when you are talking about something that happened a long time ago, that you weren't present for and don't actually have any historical document to confirm or deny it, for some reason, people give that merit.

go figure. lol :D

I just blew some mountain dew that I miraculously converted to Scotch out of my nose and onto my perfect engine! It's still going!

If only my virgin mother were here to see it!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I just blew some mountain dew that I miraculously converted to Scotch out of my nose and onto my perfect engine! It's still going!

If only my virgin mother were here to see it!

Someone's got the Midas touch !

[Jorge]

SiGung doesn't look epileptic at all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5uS_eVH1SQ&feature=related

The bringing dead flies back, comes from our healing training, it was something that SiGung did teach out back in the days. Its a way of testing your healing energy. Theres other ways of testing the healing energy, which I opt for. Killing flies and bringing them back aint my thing! But to each, his own!

I'll tell you this much... It must have sucked to be a fly in China back in the days...because, its said, that CLC also demoed his ging on flies. :)


Bless,

Buby

[SoCo KungFu]

Part of me wonders if these people are so stupid they are just swatting flies out the air and not realizing they are just stunned. Then when it wakes up a few seconds later they're like, "OMG you see my ninja healing skills?!?!"

[TAO YIN]

- If they are swatting flies out of the air, that is good speed practice. haha

- The whole resurrecting dead flies things, well, everyone is going to have a go about that. I can cut a snakes head off, skin it, and make it wiggle without touching it. How about that shiit??? I kind of take that healing stuff as what some "Gwai Los" wanted at that time. Resurrecting dead flies is good business...

The point is though, if someone trains Bak Fu Pai practically, they can come up with some very good results. Yes, we can say that about any art. It ends up as intent anyways...

Swatting dead flies out of the air is cool.

[Jorge]

Part of me wonders if these people are so stupid they are just swatting flies out the air and not realizing they are just stunned. Then when it wakes up a few seconds later they're like, "OMG you see my ninja healing skills?!?!"

Nah, nothing like that.LOLOL

[Jorge]

-
The point is though, if someone trains Bak Fu Pai practically, they can come up with some very good results. Yes, we can say that about any art. It ends up as intent anyways...




Exactly!!!

Hows everything Bro?

Bless

Buby

[taai gihk yahn]

SiGung doesn't look epileptic at all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5uS_eVH1SQ&feature=related

The bringing dead flies back, comes from our healing training, it was something that SiGung did teach out back in the days. Its a way of testing your healing energy. Theres other ways of testing the healing energy, which I opt for. Killing flies and bringing them back aint my thing! But to each, his own!

I'll tell you this much... It must have sucked to be a fly in China back in the days...because, its said, that CLC also demoed his ging on flies. :)


Bless,

Buby

have they changed the flavor of the Kool Aide lately, or is it still Tropical Punch?

oh, and BTW, you're a looney; albeit a happy one; and for that, you should be thankful

[bawang]

i wish im as rich as doo way. i poar :(:(:(:(:(:(:(

his name is funny lol. doo doo doo doo way way way

[Jorge]

have they changed the flavor of the Kool Aide lately, or is it still Tropical Punch?

oh, and BTW, you're a looney; albeit a happy one; and for that, you should be thankful

Who are you to judge me? Do you know me?



Buby

[CLFLPstudent]

SiGung doesn't look epileptic at all...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5uS_eVH1SQ&feature=related

The bringing dead flies back, comes from our healing training, it was something that SiGung did teach out back in the days. Its a way of testing your healing energy. Theres other ways of testing the healing energy, which I opt for. Killing flies and bringing them back aint my thing! But to each, his own!

I'll tell you this much... It must have sucked to be a fly in China back in the days...because, its said, that CLC also demoed his ging on flies. :)


Bless,

Buby

OK Buby,

Are you re-connecting the heads of these beheaded insects and they are revived, fly off and procreate, or are you hiding another fly in your hand, and with sleight of hand doing the old quick change and duping your audience?

Harout specifically said these insects ( and small rodents, although he ain't up to that level yet - i guess you need looser sleeves to hide the live one :rolleyes:) were beheaded, and it is to be done 5 minutes after beheading

come now, please be reasonable. Don't fall into this nonsense.

I asked Harout to provide third-party neutral confirmation but all I get is "we'll never show you but we can do it".

Crapola!

OTOH, that is a video of Wai from the 1970's. What about this steaming heap that is still available for people to watch? (http://www.whitetigerworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64)

-David

[Jorge]

OK Buby,

Are you re-connecting the heads of these beheaded insects and they are revived, fly off and procreate, or are you hiding another fly in your hand, and with sleight of hand doing the old quick change and duping your audience?

Harout specifically said these insects ( and small rodents, although he ain't up to that level yet - i guess you need looser sleeves to hide the live one :rolleyes:) were beheaded, and it is to be done 5 minutes after beheading

come now, please be reasonable. Don't fall into this nonsense.

I asked Harout to provide third-party neutral confirmation but all I get is "we'll never show you but we can do it".

Crapola!

OTOH, that is a video of Wai from the 1970's. What about this steaming heap that is still available for people to watch? (http://www.whitetigerworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64)

-David

What are you talking about? Beheaded insects? There are no beheaded insects. What nonsense? I've seen proof on video! Could it have been a parlor trick, sure anything is possible as I was not there, but I also have written statements from two people who where there. Could they be bull****ting me? Of course, anything is possible! Now ask me if I care. If you re-read my posts, you'll see I don't train using this method. Again, dead flies is not my thing. There are other ways of testing your healing energy. Plus to be really real, I'm more into fighting, then into healing! Healing to me is just an added bonus... what can I say, I live in Bedsty and being able to lace somebody is more important me.

Yes, the vid. I posted is from the 70s when SiGung was in his late 40s, early 50s, somewhat his prime. Where as the vid you posted, SiGung is already in his 80s. I don't think it was bad at all considering his age! I mean come on, do you expect him to still be able to perform as if he were in his 50s?

I cant speak on Haruts behalf as I don't know him. I can only comment on the info my Sifu has shared with me.

Buby

[Dragonzbane76]

you can't be serious on this stuff. David koresh would be proud along with a few other nut jobs from the past.

[David Jamieson]

It needs to be understood that when the great majority of people who are practicing some particular esoterica, are confronted with the falsehood of what they have spent their time training to achieve, by people who can easily refute what they do and demonstrate reality to the contrary, there will arise the phenomena where your advice to the blind goes unheeded and is instead viewed as an attack on their common sense and their world view.

As Fred said: "We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the way in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us".

When you point out that the emperor has no clothes, others will still see him fully dressed despite your observation. Dim eyes have trouble seeing truth.

All beligerance from ignorance aside that is. There will always be tag along monkeys who will shout from behind. :) they don't understand either and simply gravitate to what they percieve to be the favoured position. Usually they derive this by the amount of people who are on one side or the other. they don't often understand what the argument is about in teh first place.

[Jorge]

It needs to be understood that when the great majority of people who are practicing some particular esoterica, are confronted with the falsehood of what they have spent their time training to achieve, by people who can easily refute what they do and demonstrate reality to the contrary, there will arise the phenomena where your advice to the blind goes unheeded and is instead viewed as an attack on their common sense and their world view.

As Fred said: "We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the way in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us".

When you point out that the emperor has no clothes, others will still see him fully dressed despite your observation. Dim eyes have trouble seeing truth.

All beligerance from ignorance aside that is. There will always be tag along monkeys who will shout from behind. :) they don't understand either and simply gravitate to what they percieve to be the favoured position. Usually they derive this by the amount of people who are on one side or the other. they don't often understand what the argument is about in teh first place.

LOLOLOLOL

Is the above in reference to me?


How do you explain what this gentleman is doing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXTir6cISA8

Buby

[David Jamieson]

LOLOLOLOL

Is the above in reference to me?


How do you explain what this gentleman is doing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXTir6cISA8

Buby

Did the sun rise on your account today? It shines over all of us doesn't it?

John Chang? You're kidding right?

[Jorge]

Did the sun rise on your account today? It shines over all of us doesn't it?

John Chang? You're kidding right?

If you know something about John Chang being a fake, please enlighten me!

And whats with the riddles? A Yes or No would have done the trick.

Bro, believe what you will of me. What I find funny is...that I said its not my cup of tea. Yet you guys come on here calling me crazy as if ya actually knew me.LOLOL Yet, none of ya know me or have spoken to me on some **** in the past. I relay that I saw a vid of it being demoed and again, I'm crazy! I go on to say, my thing is the fighting aspects of the system and again it goes to I'm crazy. Please believe what you will of me and thank God that I'm really not crazy!

Buby

[diego]

does doo wai have video of GOW BO TOI 9 step push.. I heard he learned up to Ying Jow, I wonder if he picked up GBT later?..all his tiger fur print youtube clips look like basic BM combo's from SJ and SMK forms, I don't see any of that coil and spit really though from the more advanced forms...http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=E5Tyir6WS-g&feature=related

[David Jamieson]

If you know something about John Chang being a fake, please enlighten me!

And whats with the riddles? A Yes or No would have done the trick.

Bro, believe what you will of me. What I find funny is...that I said its not my cup of tea. Yet you guys come on here calling me crazy as if ya actually knew me.LOLOL Yet, none of ya know me or have spoken to me on some **** in the past. I relay that I saw a vid of it being demoed and again, I'm crazy! I go on to say, my thing is the fighting aspects of the system and again it goes to I'm crazy. Please believe what you will of me and thank God that I'm really not crazy!

Buby

I don't know you. I was responding to you in such a way as to point out what was self evident.

That you are unable to see the falacy of what Chang presents or Doo Wai is all that was pointed out by that. BUt you are of course free to believe what you like, including flying pigs if that is your desire.

eating dung is not my cupo of tea either. :)

[mooyingmantis]

Simple science peeps, Flies will go into a state similar to hibernation when chilled. When they warm up again, they become active. No hocus pocus, just science.

[Jorge]

does doo wai have video of GOW BO TOI 9 step push.. I heard he learned up to Ying Jow, I wonder if he picked up GBT later?..all his tiger fur print youtube clips look like basic BM combo's from SJ and SMK forms, I don't see any of that coil and spit really though from the more advanced forms...http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=E5Tyir6WS-g&feature=related

Nah, I don't have one of 9 step. I really don't know how far he went with the CLC Pak Mei. Could have been up to Ying Jow. I wouldn't know if he picked up 9 S. afterwards. I can ask and get back to you. Also, which 9 step are you making reference too? CLC Pak Mei, Omei Pak Mei or Bak Fu Pai?

Basics is what gets the job done. Yes, very plain and straight forward so its easy for the beginner to understand and use. I'm not aware of any of those forms being the higher level forms. I might be wrong, so I"ll double check that.

Can I ask how much time you have training short hand? I ask, because the more time you put into your short hand, you'll start to notice that your movements become smaller. Circles become tighter, less becomes more, your movements are faster and less noticeable. This type of evolution is found in all the short hand systems. With proper guidance you'll see what I'm talking about, if you haven't already. Also, you have to understand that BFP is not PM, so there are going to be differences.

I see you have Ng Ying. Thats whats up!


Buby

[Lokhopkuen]

Nah, I don't have one of 9 step. I really don't know how far he went with the CLC Pak Mei. Could have been up to Ying Jow. I wouldn't know if he picked up 9 S. afterwards. I can ask and get back to you. Also, which 9 step are you making reference too? CLC Pak Mei, Omei Pak Mei or Bak Fu Pai?

Basics is what gets the job done. Yes, very plain and straight forward so its easy for the beginner to understand and use. I'm not aware of any of those forms being the higher level forms. I might be wrong, so I"ll double check that.

Can I ask how much time you have training short hand? I ask, because the more time you put into your short hand, you'll start to notice that your movements become smaller. Circles become tighter, less becomes more, your movements are faster and less noticeable. This type of evolution is found in all the short hand systems. With proper guidance you'll see what I'm talking about, if you haven't already. Also, you have to understand that BFP is not PM, so there are going to be differences.

I see you have Ng Ying. Thats whats up!


Buby

With all due respect I have seen children with greater gung fu skill than this
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=E5Ty...eature=related

[Jorge]

With all due respect I have seen children with greater gung fu skill than this
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=E5Ty...eature=related

I dont think the link is good. I take it was of Sigung Doo Wai. Ok.


If you don't mind can I ask you to post something of yourself?

Thank you in advance,

Buby

[taai gihk yahn]

Who are you to judge me?
it's a public forum, Schmedrick; if u don't know how these things work, u may not want to log on in the first place


Do you know me?
Buby
no, I don't know you; but I've heard the same drivel about BFP from many others on here, and I don't have to know u personally to know kookie when I read / see it;



dead flies is not my thing. There are other ways of testing your healing energy.
really? care to share? :rolleyes:


does doo wai have video of GOW BO TOI 9 step push.. I heard he learned up to Ying Jow, I wonder if he picked up GBT later?..all his tiger fur print youtube clips look like basic BM combo's from SJ and SMK forms, I don't see any of that coil and spit really though from the more advanced forms...http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=E5Tyir6WS-g&feature=related
his structure is abyssmal; his mechanics are fragmented; his focus is non-existent and quite frankly it looks like he is improvising;

[taai gihk yahn]

With all due respect I have seen children with greater gung fu skill than this
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=E5Ty...eature=related



If you don't mind can I ask you to post something of yourself?

Thank you in advance,

Buby

LOL in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

[Lokhopkuen]

I dont think the link is good. I take it was of Sigung Doo Wai. Ok.


If you don't mind can I ask you to post something of yourself?

Thank you in advance,

Buby

I'm sorry but IMHO the grandmaster of a system of martial art should have rare skill. From what I have seen in video Dou Wai is rather common in appearance. If you could show me different I'd become an instant fan as I love the martial arts even when performed less than perfect the spirit of the practice and art shines through.

As far as my skill? I'm nothing special aside from practicing daily for a while now but then again I am not a master or even a grand master:D

Video? Of me?

There is plenty floating about:rolleyes:

[TAO YIN]

Buby, what's up bro? How you been? Hope all is well.


Come on guys, let's try this again...I've seen Doo Wai do good performances, on video. I've seen him do bad performances, on video. If a person trains Bak Fu Pai practically, they can come up with some good results. One can say that about any art. It's all intent.

With all that said aside, who here knows Doo Wai? Does anyone here seriously know this guy? Really?

Kung Lek, do you know him? I like Toisan Black Tiger. My face hurts.

[Lokhopkuen]

Buby, what's up bro? How you been? Hope all is well.


Come on guys, let's try this again...I've seen Doo Wai do good performances, on video. I've seen him do bad performances, on video. If a person trains Bak Fu Pai practically, they can come up with some good results. One can say that about any art. It's all intent.

With all that said aside, who here knows Doo Wai? Does anyone here seriously know this guy? Really?

Kung Lek, do you know him? I like Toisan Black Tiger. My face hurts.

Can you show a vid that is a good representative example of the systems rare skilln sets?

[TAO YIN]

Lok Hop Kuen,

On the whitetiger.com website, there is some stuff of him breaking coconuts on his palm and off of tou fu. Whether they are real or not, I wasn't there as was no one else here.

Nonetheless, even if he baked the shiit out of a coconut and broke it off of tou fu, that is still impressive. hahaha!

There is one video of him on youtube, a little older, where he is going off. I can't remember all about it, but there is a Chinese symbol above him. He loses his structure in it. He is moving all over the place though and changing the original form up. Only snippets of the clip are of the original form. Funny enough, the snippets where he doesn't lose any structure.

But, no excuses. Everything else I have seen of him on the web, appears to me that he is diccking around and making stuff up on the spot. All for the Gwei Los! Gotta love it.

Anyhow, Bak Fu Pai has interesting iron palm and iron body methods. It's forms, are well, forms.

[Lokhopkuen]

Lok Hop Kuen,

On the whitetiger.com website, there is some stuff of him breaking coconuts on his palm and off of tou fu. Whether they are real or not, I wasn't there as was no one else here.

Nonetheless, even if he baked the shiit out of a coconut and broke it off of tou fu, that is still impressive. hahaha!

There is one video of him on youtube, a little older, where he is going off. I can't remember all about it, but there is a Chinese symbol above him. He loses his structure in it. He is moving all over the place though and changing the original form up. Only snippets of the clip are of the original form. Funny enough, the snippets where he doesn't lose any structure.

But, no excuses. Everything else I have seen of him on the web, appears to me that he is diccking around and making stuff up on the spot. All for the Gwei Los! Gotta love it.

Anyhow, Bak Fu Pai has interesting iron palm and iron body methods. It's forms, are well, forms.

Thank you I will check it out. BTW I appreciate candid honesty above and beyond wild claims of mystical superiority.

Peace

[Hardwork108]

I don't know you. I was responding to you in such a way as to point out what was self evident.

That you are unable to see the falacy of what Chang presents or Doo Wai is all that was pointed out by that. BUt you are of course free to believe what you like, including flying pigs if that is your desire.

eating dung is not my cupo of tea either. :)

He asked a valid question, yet you and everyone are dancing around his question. How did the man in the video do what he did?

It is not enough to answer by just saying that "to my knowledge these things don't exist, hence the man in the video MUST be a fake".

I am keeping a neutral position but you and some of the other guys seem to just jump into conclusion regarding this and TCMA methodologies that you are clueless about, and there are many, believe me!!!

[TAO YIN]

Lok Hop,


I hate the mystical superiority stuff posed by a good deal of kung fu peeps, for whatever reasons they may have...There is nothing mystical about hard work.

Excellent Kung Fu has Lok Hop all of the time. Doo Wai doesn't appear to have Lok Hop all of the time in his forms. His forms are not excellent...

Mike Tyson's Lok Hop was (is?) excellent...

[Hardwork108]

Ever heard of the ideomotor effect?

He was able to lead not only his Yi, but parts of the Yi of others.

In the West it's generally called "Hypnosis,"

Do we know for sure that this was the case, or are we assuming so because we do not believe what he did was possible?

Also, to my knowledge it is not that easy just to hypnotize people, specially the people who seemed pretty skeptic to start with, in the latter part of the video clip.


and as in Qigong, there are both therapists and charlatans.
A very true fact that also holds true for Western "scientific" therapists, doctors and pharmaceuticals.


No comment on this guy's therapeutic effectiveness.
I am sure that someone else will come out and call it hypnotism. LOL!

I mean, one can speculate, but one's own speculation is based on his own belief system, and unfortunately there is something called Scientific Dogma, as well, which does not help matters either.


Points deducted for silly fire-lighting illusions and playing with Ouija knives.

Well, to be honest, personally, to check this man out, I would not only get the scientific types, but also a professional illusionist. That way, I would cover more angles, so to speak.

Having said that, I do not agree on people calling things BS using a scientific perspective that is IMHO is pretty much incomplete.



I once heard an interesting take on sash-tying. The position of the knot is an expression of one's self image: a side-knot is modest, a back knot is humble, and a front knot is pretentious (the sash-ends become a phallic symbol.)
Looking at Doo Wai, he seems to have significant insecurities regarding his potency, expressed both in behaviour and in dress.

I have just joined this thread, so I have not seen how Doo Wai dresses, and don't even know of him. My comments are limited to the video presented by Jorge.

So, as I said, my position is neutral until someone can explain the whole thing, either way, to me my satisfaction. I realize that is not an easy task on a forum. I guess it would have been easier if the film crew had taken a professional illussionist to check this guy out on the spot, as a later conclusion by a magician would not stick, either.

[CLFLPstudent]

What are you talking about? Beheaded insects? There are no beheaded insects. What nonsense? I've seen proof on video! Could it have been a parlor trick, sure anything is possible as I was not there, but I also have written statements from two people who where there. Could they be bull****ting me? Of course, anything is possible! Now ask me if I care. If you re-read my posts, you'll see I don't train using this method. Again, dead flies is not my thing. There are other ways of testing your healing energy. Plus to be really real, I'm more into fighting, then into healing! Healing to me is just an added bonus... what can I say, I live in Bedsty and being able to lace somebody is more important me.

Yes, the vid. I posted is from the 70s when SiGung was in his late 40s, early 50s, somewhat his prime. Where as the vid you posted, SiGung is already in his 80s. I don't think it was bad at all considering his age! I mean come on, do you expect him to still be able to perform as if he were in his 50s?

I cant speak on Haruts behalf as I don't know him. I can only comment on the info my Sifu has shared with me.

Buby

OK Buby, since you joined the party late, I posted a link from BFP's very own mental asylum ( otherwise known as a message board) where Dr Harout posted that, among other things, to prove you are true BFP you need to show the healing skill of revivng a dead/beheaded insect .... after 5 minutes of beheading (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html)

If you can't click the link I'll copy and paste it again, just to beat this dead horse ( maybe they can revive him?) even further:

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: To the bearded freak Jim Lacy and wannabes Reply with quote
Hey bearded freak Jim Lacy....so you finally paid off for the trailer...wow...it took years to pay for the trailer...hahahaha

Now listen to me carefully you and your wannabes, who are claiming to be BFP:

1) If you have trained in BFP as you claim....then post on youtube a clip of breaking a some bricks placed over each other without spaces, on the ground by a single strike from 2-3 inch distance.

2) As for BFP Iron body.....make another clip where someone strikes your belly with the end of a staff...not by the middle part of a staff....and your body should be soft ...not tensed.

3) As for healing chi gung of BFP....you should be able to revive a dead/beheaded insect....after 5 minutes of its beheading

4) You should do all the forms with speed that is usually performed in BFP, provided that each strike should cause a break as I mentioned in point number one...so you can...use the strikes in any form movements to show me two breaks simeltaneously.

As you see am asking simple things....these are done by BFP seniors who are trained under GM Doo Wai.


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Dr.Harout
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Again, re-read the thread, I don't care about their breaking 'skillz', what interests me is their resurrection 'skillz', but the good Dr refuses to prove this 'ability'

-David

[hskwarrior]

Hey HSK, is that heaven earth man symbolism part of the Hung Men rituals, or just another incarnation of the taoist '3'?

Yum Cha,

Yeah, well, Heaven, Earth, and Man is apart of everything in Hung Mun rituals.

[Hardwork108]

It needs to be understood that when the great majority of people who are practicing some particular esoterica, are confronted with the falsehood of what they have spent their time training to achieve, by people who can easily refute what they do and demonstrate reality to the contrary, there will arise the phenomena where your advice to the blind goes unheeded and is instead viewed as an attack on their common sense and their world view.
That works the other way as well when one presents a none Western, none modern and none MMA training approach to people who have been using them as their basis of knowledge, they will turn around and take it as an attack on their common sense and world view.

So be careful when you speak....





All beligerance from ignorance aside that is. There will always be tag along monkeys who will shout from behind. :) they don't understand either and simply gravitate to what they percieve to be the favoured position. Usually they derive this by the amount of people who are on one side or the other. they don't often understand what the argument is about in teh first place.

Which monkeys are you referring to, the Mc Kung Fu practitioners, or the "MMA is Best", apers?

Please be clear.....

[TAO YIN]

The worst thing Bak Fu Pai has going for it now is that forum. Anyway, where is all this coming from more than likely?

'Back in the day,' Doo Wai made some videos that had "chi materialization" in them. He does this for news reporters, then after washing his hands does it again while rubbing his fingers, then does it without rubbing his fingers at all.

He also made some vids where a few flies "look" dead (how else can anyone know, it's video, even though he says they are dead... their head ARE attached though) then he puts his hand above one of the flies (you can still see it) then it looks as if the fly wakes up, kicks around, then flys away. However he did those videos, is however he did those videos. Who knows? Probably noone. Who has this skill for real? Probably noone. Do I? No. Do you? No. Does Harout or whoever else in Bak Fu Pai? Come on!:rolleyes:

Like I said before, I can cut a snakes head off, skin it, and make it wiggle, all without touching it.

The best vid by far though is of the guy from India who could electrify a hotplate. That was cool I must say. Anyone see that? What show was that?

[Hardwork108]

I never said it was easy. All I suggested was that the client-based phenomena we're seeing can be done by a good hypnotist.

What I am having problems with is the fact that he seemed to have "hypnotized" almost everyone of the documentary crew. I doubt that they were all superstitious or gullible characters.


I'm not suggesting that the man knows the Science behind his effect, or that he uses hypnosis in the Western sense of the word; merely that he is skilled at suggesting and inducing trance-states in his clients. This is something which anyone can do. In fact, we induce basic trances in people every day, whether we're aware of it or not. For instance, have you ever said "don't do x" to someone, and had them immediately do x? That's a basic tool in hypnosis. Likewise, we work at persuading people a lot throughout the course of our lives, while slipping in and out of our own trances all the time as well.

I know what you are saying, and it probably is a possibility. However, it would be good to know what really happened and how the man did what he did, whatever the final conclusion may turn out to be. Otherwise, we are only speculating and creating, dare I say, our own "trance" states.


Drug-free trance states have been observed in many traditional ceremonies. Non-Scientific cultures have probably used them for millenia, and have passed on their basis and relevance in non-scientific terms. Some would argue that to examine these aspects of Traditional cultures through a Scientific lens is disrespectful. I strongly disagree: examining these practices scientifically allows us to clearly recognize the roles that each element plays in regards to the whole phenomenon being examined.
I have no problem with examining unexplained phenomenons scientifically, as long as the examiner realizes that what we know as science, is not the beginning and end of everything. That is, what is scientific fact today, may be seen as clueless ignorance in 10 years time, or even less.

Furthermore, according to certain scientific (physics) theories, the observer himself may inadvertently effect the cause and effect of the phenomenon he is viewing, by the mere fact that he is observing it. This theory points to realities that the science has hardly explored.

Other scientists, including physicists, believe that the universe is conscious, hence all matter, which is seen as energy in different states, is conscious. If the examiner sees the universe in such a way, then he will explain such a phenomenon in a radically different manner than a scientist just who just sees everything, using the 5 sense physical perspective. Of course, I am assuming that the phenomenon they are viewing is truly "unexplainable" and not a magic trick.


Enjoy these, they're very cool, you can try them yourself! Become a Qi Projection (tm) master for free! (Donations accepted.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3rhGctGl2Q&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQYATSRSJac&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BIWhNh5V6Q

Thank you. They were interesting links, and a magic trick will never fail to impress the ladies.:D

However, the fact is that those "debunkers" could have made a video clip about breaking bricks, thus convincing the whole world that all bricks broken by martial aritsts are just tricks, while we all know that the ability to breaking bricks and even stones, with bare hands is a reality.

That is why consulting illusionists is only useful when they are present during a given phenomenon, so as to enable them to catch a possible quack during the act.

After the act would be relatively easy for an illusionist to come up with a way a given phenomenon could be "explained".

So, what I am saying that it is certainly possible that it was a magician's or an illusionist's trick, albeit a difficult one, but the best way to call it, is to have a magician present to catch the guy on the act, otherwise, what we say and assume are all assumptions, and I am sure that some here will use these "debunking" theories just to feel good about themselves intellectually, but in reality, their beloved scientific way would be to find out the truth, one way or the other, DURING the man's "performance", ie. During the Experiment.

[Jorge]

The worst thing Bak Fu Pai has going for it now is that forum. Anyway, where is all this coming from more than likely?

'Back in the day,' Doo Wai made some videos that had "chi materialization" in them. He does this for news reporters, then after washing his hands does it again while rubbing his fingers, then does it without rubbing his fingers at all.

He also made some vids where a few flies "look" dead (how else can anyone know, it's video, even though he says they are dead... their head ARE attached though) then he puts his hand above one of the flies (you can still see it) then it looks as if the fly wakes up, kicks around, then flys away. However he did those videos, is however he did those videos. Who knows? Probably noone. Who has this skill for real? Probably noone. Do I? No. Do you? No. Does Harout or whoever else in Bak Fu Pai? Come on!:rolleyes:

Like I said before, I can cut a snakes head off, skin it, and make it wiggle, all without touching it.

The best vid by far though is of the guy from India who could electrify a hotplate. That was cool I must say. Anyone see that? What show was that?


Thanks Bro! Maybe they will understand the way you put it!

Got a link to the hot plate thingy!

[Jorge]

OK Buby, since you joined the party late, I posted a link from BFP's very own mental asylum ( otherwise known as a message board) where Dr Harout posted that, among other things, to prove you are true BFP you need to show the healing skill of revivng a dead/beheaded insect .... after 5 minutes of beheading (http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about864-doowaibfp.html)

If you can't click the link I'll copy and paste it again, just to beat this dead horse ( maybe they can revive him?) even further:


Again, re-read the thread, I don't care about their breaking 'skillz', what interests me is their resurrection 'skillz', but the good Dr refuses to prove this 'ability'

-David

I wouldn't even know where to begin to answer that. I come from a different branch of BFP, so our mind set is a bit different. Our branch is more fight oriented. We train meds, but not to bring flies back.lolol I train the burning palm (iron palm system) within BFP, which is why I said earlier I use different methods. The fly thing isn't found in burning palm and again, isn't my cup of tea. If I'm not mistaken its found in Flying Phoenix Healing Method, so I can only speak on what I've heard and the vid I saw. The whole beheaded thing got me stuck, because I read, the body of the fly needs to be intact. I dont know Harut, nor do I know where he got his info. What I do know, is that BFP has some good hands and thats all that matters to me.

@Tao: Yep, the vid I saw was pretty much the way you described it. Thats why I said it couldn't have been fake, I dont know, I wasn't there. I have eyewitness accounts, could they be ****in me? Of course, but I dont know cause I wasn't there. Plus I really dont care!LOLOL (Oh **** the Brooklyn is coming out in me...peep it I'm a rappin..LOLOL)


Bless,

Buby

[David Jamieson]

Buby-

David Blaine has eye witnesses as does chris angel.

The difference is that they will tell you up front that what they do is an illusion that it is not magic and that every piece they do has a process and explanation.

[Reality_Check]

I wouldn't even know where to begin to answer that. I come from a different branch of BFP, so our mind set is a bit different.

Different branch? I thought there was only one branch, that of Doo Wai.

You learn from Garry Hearfield in Australia, who learns from Doo Wai in California.

Dr. Haroutioun P Aintablian, in Lebanon, learns from Doo Wai in California.

If it's all from the same (living) source, how can there be different branches?

[TAO YIN]

The saddest thing about all of this nonsense other than the fact that Jamieson has passed his 15,000 post, and that Reality Check TM finally noticed an error in what someone was writing and quickly posted...is that

WE WILL CONTINUTE TO TALK ABOUT BEHEADED RODENTS. HEY EVERYONE, LET'S JOIN IN THE CIRCLE JERK!!!!!!!!! YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

Reality Check... I speak to you Chinese like, maybe then you can understand.

Buby say no same branch. Buby mean his branch no worry dead fly. He train with branch study fight. He no say not from who and who. Ming Bai Ma?

COME ON GUYS, JOIN THE CIRCLE JERK!!!! COME ONE COME ALL!!!
-Once I saw a hamster, running in his wheel, got his head caught, caught in a spoke, poor little hamster, head fell off. I resurrected him, with chi and glue. Pumped him full of vitamins too! YEAAAAAAAH!

[David Jamieson]

Yeah, when you participate in a community for a dozen or more years (about 14 years here actually, before it got taken over by kfm and was still kfo), don't bother too much with lurking, then your post count will go high. lol

I woudln't diminish the ludicrous nature of the claims made by Doo wai though.

[Jorge]

Buby-

David Blaine has eye witnesses as does chris angel.

The difference is that they will tell you up front that what they do is an illusion that it is not magic and that every piece they do has a process and explanation.

I understand that and I don't negate that fact. What I'm saying is, I don't know, I wasn't there. All I was doing was sharing the info I had on the subject. It wasn't confirming that these things can actually be done. Again, I dont know, I dont train it, nor does anyone else I know. But I understand where you coming from...

Buby

[Jorge]

I woudln't diminish the ludicrous nature of the claims made by Doo wai though.

Nah....Some of his claims are dead on! His iron body and palms are pretty awesome. You get results quick, it's just a bit demanding. Others, I dont know about, because the branch I belong too really doesn't see the need to explore those areas of the BFP. BFP is a hugh system! I'm under Sifu Garry and he has more of a fighters hand. We have tons of meds, but their more for wellness and to help assist in the development of ging. The healing I'm learning is a bit like Reiki, so we work with actual people.LOLOL

.
Buby

[TAO YIN]

Kung Lek,


I wouldn't call it lurking really. I get on here from time to time when I am not working or training. I do so, so that I can see the enormous amount of shiit spewed while the circle jerking continues.

I don't get that kind of circle jerking at the rock quarry or in training. So you know, I've got to get my jerk on from time to time!

Toishan Black Tiger is cool though.

[diego]

I'm trying to find out about BFP forms..all I can find is Dr. harout and the rizzo brothers are the senior teachers...if the doo family fist goes back mad dynasties what are the names of doo wai's seniors and where do they teach? i can't find the link surely peeps in south asia picked up the secret white tiger fists as the hakka chinese did they migrations.

:D

[diego]

and dr harout is a mess so...http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about863-doowaibfp.html

the hell how many human biengs do bfp worldwide?.

[bawang]

on their forums it says

"My oriental former teacher is nothing but a drunkard, drug addicted ****sexual that got caught masturbating while watching his parrots mate. He is a total freak. He always has young men on video with him but they never stay long because he is too freaky for most of them."

...is dis tru?

[taai gihk yahn]

on their forums it says

"My oriental former teacher is nothing but a drunkard, drug addicted ****sexual that got caught masturbating while watching his parrots mate. He is a total freak. He always has young men on video with him but they never stay long because he is too freaky for most of them."

...is dis tru?

you have parrots?

[Dragonzbane76]

you have parrots?

I always wanted a parrot that was vulgar and slurred. Spout profanities at the local church group or mormon. ah... that would be grand..... :)

[Jorge]

I'm trying to find out about BFP forms..all I can find is Dr. harout and the rizzo brothers are the senior teachers...if the doo family fist goes back mad dynasties what are the names of doo wai's seniors and where do they teach? i can't find the link surely peeps in south asia picked up the secret white tiger fists as the hakka chinese did they migrations.

:D

Doo wai's senior was his father. BFP is a family style and it was Doo Wai who decided to teach the public. BFP was not left in the hands of the Hakka community, but to Doo Wai's family and it was passed down father to son...If you weren't Doo family you couldn't learn BFP.

I don't know about Harut or the Rizzo brothers. I do know of them training with Sigung, but thats it. Seniors? It depends what your definition of seniors is.


Buby

[Jorge]

and dr harout is a mess so...http://doowaibfp.forumup.org/about863-doowaibfp.html

the hell how many human biengs do bfp worldwide?.


Dr. Harut is his own person and doesn't belong to the branch that I do. I hate that forum!LOLOL BFP is a great system and we have really dedicated players in our branch, so hopefully the positive things we are doing, will soon out weight the negative things others have done in the past.

Buby

[diego]

Jorge when did white tiger first get talked about in the news media like the first article published in Black Belt mag?. I dont get online much it would be cool if you could link all the white tiger video online here. DW knows BM basics from my class I'm curious how good his guys are.

[Hardwork108]

I think the key is psychological predictability: over 2/3 of the population are susceptible to these predictable behaviours.

Another neat example of how People can be subliminally primed to "come up with" new ideas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQjr1YL0zg

Very interesting. I can relate to some of that. However, the organizers of the "trick"had to make a lot of assumptions. For example, if the advertising people in the taxi had been having a deep discussion during the journey, then they would have missed a lot, if not most, of the "planted ideas". This makes me wonder if they got this to work the first time round. If not, then how many failures did they have?

Thank you for the book link that you sent me. It is very interesting so far. It would have been good to have a person with such abilities be there during the filming of the documentary on JC. That way we would have a better idea of what was going on.

Anyway, I will continue reading the material, and thanks again.:)

[Reality_Check]

The saddest thing about all of this nonsense other than the fact that Jamieson has passed his 15,000 post, and that Reality Check TM finally noticed an error in what someone was writing and quickly posted...is that

WE WILL CONTINUTE TO TALK ABOUT BEHEADED RODENTS. HEY EVERYONE, LET'S JOIN IN THE CIRCLE JERK!!!!!!!!! YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

Reality Check... I speak to you Chinese like, maybe then you can understand.

Buby say no same branch. Buby mean his branch no worry dead fly. He train with branch study fight. He no say not from who and who. Ming Bai Ma?

COME ON GUYS, JOIN THE CIRCLE JERK!!!! COME ONE COME ALL!!!
-Once I saw a hamster, running in his wheel, got his head caught, caught in a spoke, poor little hamster, head fell off. I resurrected him, with chi and glue. Pumped him full of vitamins too! YEAAAAAAAH!

So, Buby posting that he was from a different branch was in error? He's actually from the same branch as Dr. Harut? Thanks for clarifying that. Of course, you followed that by saying the he was from a different branch, in an insulting and quite racist manner.

Isn't Garry Hearfield (Fiercest Tiger) your sifu? If that is correct, then you certainly have learned his post fu well. :rolleyes: Besides, isn't Garry into the whole internal/healing aspect of martial arts now what with his Wun Yuen Yat Hei Jeung system and all? So, how can Buby be from a "different branch" when Garry espouses the same healing aspects as Doo Wai?

David (CLFLPstudent) made an inquiry regarding Dr. Harut's claims that, by using Bak Fu Pai's healing skills, one can resurrect a beheaded fly (or even rodents as Dr. Harut mentioned on page 3 of this thread "rodents, I am not able yet"). And yet none of the three Bak Fu Pai representatives on this thread are willing to provide proof of this wondrous ability. Several pages of obfuscation and insults leads me to believe that this claim is, in fact, a lie.

[Jorge]

So, Buby posting that he was from a different branch was in error? He's actually from the same branch as Dr. Harut? Thanks for clarifying that. Of course, you followed that by saying the he was from a different branch, in an insulting and quite racist manner.

Isn't Garry Hearfield (Fiercest Tiger) your sifu? If that is correct, then you certainly have learned his post fu well. :rolleyes: Besides, isn't Garry into the whole internal/healing aspect of martial arts now what with his Wun Yuen Yat Hei Jeung system and all? So, how can Buby be from a "different branch" when Garry espouses the same healing aspects as Doo Wai?

David (CLFLPstudent) made an inquiry regarding Dr. Harut's claims that, by using Bak Fu Pai's healing skills, one can resurrect a beheaded fly (or even rodents as Dr. Harut mentioned on page 3 of this thread "rodents, I am not able yet"). And yet none of the three Bak Fu Pai representatives on this thread are willing to provide proof of this wondrous ability. Several pages of obfuscation and insults leads me to believe that this claim is, in fact, a lie.


The only insults have been from those calling me a looney!LOLOL Which is cool with me.:) Doo Wai is the source, but my Sifu and Harut are two different individuals and have studied different things under Doo Wai. There focus is different and it shows by the way Sifu teaches. I was informed about the whole fly thing as I was sent the vid, with an explanation, but its not something we train under Sifu Garry. If Harut, trains it and teaches it...more power to him and his branch! The way I see it, Doo Wai is the tree trunk and the different sifu's under him are the different branches. I understand what you mean thou!

Probably is lie! Might be true! I don't know, I wasn't there. Nor do I really care, because its not going to help my soy kuil!

Buby

[KC Elbows]

Just checking in, are we still giving a break on belief in a resurrection if that belief exists in people who weren't present, or can we start unilaterally bagging on all resurrection believers here yet?:D

If so, anyone want to bet a jar of water that might become pinot noir on the outcome?

[taai gihk yahn]

Just checking in, are we still giving a break on belief in a resurrection if that belief exists in people who weren't present, or can we start unilaterally bagging on all resurrection believers here yet?:D

If so, anyone want to bet a jar of water that might become pinot noir on the outcome?

always luved a good pinot...and that was before Sideways came out...

[KC Elbows]

always luved a good pinot...and that was before Sideways came out...

I've been on a four year pinot kick. I just don't seem to get sick of the stuff.

[David Jamieson]

always luved a good pinot...and that was before Sideways came out...

That movie really did a lot to hurt Merlot.

screw Paul Giamatti and his lines anyway!

I like a good Merlot, especially with Beef!
Yes a Cab-Sav is nice, but the Merlot is perfect for Roasts and that movie damaged my ability to find it in the abundance it should be found in.

stupid wine movies shaping peoples opinions. :mad:


:D

[Dr.Harut]

David (CLFLPstudent) made an inquiry regarding Dr. Harut's claims that, by using Bak Fu Pai's healing skills, one can resurrect a beheaded fly (or even rodents as Dr. Harut mentioned on page 3 of this thread "rodents, I am not able yet"). And yet none of the three Bak Fu Pai representatives on this thread are willing to provide proof of this wondrous ability. Several pages of obfuscation and insults leads me to believe that this claim is, in fact, a lie.

I agree with you in this, that anything is a claim unless proof is provided and this proof should be done at least in front of an audiance who do not belong to the system providing the proof.

I walk on my schedule, I don't care for inquiries, when I see time is appropriate I might provide proof with the standards I mentioned above...till then...call me whatever suits you.

I believe in our Teacher' GM Doo Wai, I believe in Bak Fu Pai...and I'll remain Bak Fu Pai, as well as my descendents will be Bak Fu Pai....and whatever any outsider say about the system thats their opinion and their choice.

Am not modest, but don't call me a representative...am simply a guy who is training in this system and happens that I have good material for my training.

[Dale Dugas]

merlot is for girls.

real kung fu peeps drink Cabernet Savignon

[David Jamieson]

merlot is for girls.

real kung fu peeps drink Cabernet Savignon

:eek::eek::eek:

I'm shocked at this assessment.

Ninjas have been dispatched to put rebar into all your bricks!!! :mad:


:p

[Dale Dugas]

Never got into merlot, seriously as I have this thing about strong flavors.

not one for light beer or light tasting wines.

I like wines that kick me in the face.

[Jorge]

If BFP is a tree, it's rotten - the only flies coming to life are from the worms inside it.

Why eat the fruit of such a plant, unless you're starving?

Nope not starving. My Sifu and Kru give me more than enough to keep me full.:) What I've learned is that it isn't so much the system, but the teacher or coach that really make the difference. Like I said, BFP has some really good hands and some great meds, so I keep my focus to that. Anything outside of that is open for debate in my eyes, just like all the other KF stories out there. Every Pai has theirs! I don't concern myself with history, politics or all the mystical stuff. I like to train good hands regardless of style. I seek out teachers, not styles! And BFP is definitely not a rotten tree in my Sifu's hands. I dont knock anyone, cause I just recently seen the BFP forum and thats really not my cup of tea. We stay clear from all of that and just focus on training.

But of course Brother, you are entitled to your opinion.

Bless,

Buby

[Jorge]

Jorge when did white tiger first get talked about in the news media like the first article published in Black Belt mag?. I dont get online much it would be cool if you could link all the white tiger video online here. DW knows BM basics from my class I'm curious how good his guys are.

I don't know, I would have to find out. If I'm not mistaken, Doo Wai's father taught the military and thats where Doo Wai's father met CLC. Doo Wai's family was also famous for their medicine and healing, so I dont know if Bak Fu of Doo Family has ever been mentioned in the papers in China, but I could find out for you.


I was told Doo Wai learned his Pak Mei from CLC in China. Doo Wai's father asked CLC to teach Doo Wai his Pak Mei. I never heard of Doo Wai learning his Pak Mei from anyone else.


Below is a vid of my Sifu. The beginning of the vid is Wun Yuen (has nothing to do with BFP), then it goes into Omei Pak Mei, then around 1:26 Burning Palm (BFP), then some Bak Fu and Omei Pak Mei.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDVuttau-As

Buby

[CLFLPstudent]

If BFP is a tree, it's rotten - the only flies coming to life are from the worms inside it.

Why eat the fruit of such a plant, unless you're starving?

This is brilliant, someone should use it as a sig.

I still want to know if they reconnect the heads ... I have visions of countless headless flies buzzing around banging into everything.

-David

[Dragonzbane76]

If BFP is a tree, it's rotten - the only flies coming to life are from the worms inside it.

Why eat the fruit of such a plant, unless you're starving?

wow...haha...take no prisoners.......:)

[TAO YIN]

Reality Check,

Buby explained it to you. Even me saying it basic, you got it wrong looking towards your own conclusion without reading and wanting to understand the situation.

What's the saying, "I am not racist, I hate everyone?" Of course I am racist, I am white, man! I don't even have to be racist to be racist.

I don't really see the problem in posting like an idiot when others are. Look back. At first, I made a few logical, practical, sane, coherent, and otherwise 'normal' comments about Bak Fu Pai. But that is not fun to talk about right?

Buby said from the beginning that he thought the Bak Fu hands were good, that he wasn't worried about the flies and wasn't sure about it either, but it seems no reading went on with that. All that went on was a continuous circle jerk after that, and you know it...

No one here on this board knows the real story about Doo Wai before he was here in the US. It is simple. And, you know that everyone learns Bak Fu from video, so? hahaha! What's up?

Check, right?

[Hardwork108]

I don't know how many times they've tried it: I've seen it done successfully with 2 or 3 different groups. As you pointed out, there are a LOT of variables: what's necessary for it to have any chance of working is, for lack of a better term, "subliminal overexposure": a few ideas presented over and over and over again on surfaces that we ignore consciously yet make note of subconsciously (I really liked the use of T-shirts on strangers.)



You're welcome. One possible way that JC could be using a form of PP reading is by implementing it in reverse. Rather than reading off the client, he gets the client to read off of him.

Another way is along the lines of the "Bodytalk" method that was developed in Australia (don't know when or who by), whereby the practitioner, having instructed the client to not answer out loud, asks verbal questions about their health while simultaneously palpating the body in order to sleuth out the condition.

All of this, if not objectively examined, could EASILY be attributed to some kind of mystical force. In a way, it kind of is: it takes lots of mental focus and lots of practice to get good at it - and the framework it's learned through will dramatically change a general practitioner's understanding of it.

JC does other stuff besides his PP abilities, such as the belly bounce (good core,) and the Magic tricks (reinforcing suggestion of mystical skill, making it easier to do his PP abilities in general; I think he was upset that the fire trick was filmed because it was prop oriented, not physiologically oriented, such as the Static Ouija Knife trick.) Presented together under the same label (ie the effects all stem from the same source, such as Qi,) he provides a highly suggestible environment where it becomes possible for someone with any kind of listening skills to discern the generalities (and with experience, the specifics) of a condition, then induce a hypno-physiotherapeutic trance of sorts through reverse PP reading.

None of this is magical. Effective application of it requires study (not necessarily in a Scientific context, although I would recommend that approach) and practice.

Edit: The highly suggestible clients probably end up adding their own "flair" to the effects. :)

If we assume that everything JC did was a "trick" then I would say that it was very courageous of him to risk his reputation in front of a camera and the accompanying documentary crew.

Personally speaking, I would still love to have had present a professional illusionist and/or a person familiar with hypnotism and its possibilities and scope. That is th only way one would know for sure where the source of JC's abilities lay.

Who knows, perhaps one day, the next documentary crew will go that one step further so as not to leave us the observers hypothesizing about the how and ifs. :)

[banditshaw]

I like a good french bordeaux or tuscan based red. Pinot is nice too and I'm not mad at merlot. I just prefer the french bordeaux reds.

la paz

[Dragonzbane76]

Have you ever seen the movie "The Prestige? I recommend it if you haven't. It drives the point of persistence home nicely.

great movie... i wouldn't say persistence... i would say obsession.

[KC Elbows]

Did the fly doo wai resurrected then forgive the other flies for eating the turd of knowledge?

[David Jamieson]

It had to, those other flies didn't know what they were doing!

[KC Elbows]

They'll never get into the great dungheap in the sky that way.

Unless Doo Wai already knows which flies will get in and which won't, in which case, no overarching fly clergy can promise anything in exchange for good poop.

However, to be clear, the Vincent Price/Jeff Goldblum white guy fly is only a Hollywood invention.

[bawang]

i think jim lacy is way cooler than doo wai

[taai gihk yahn]

(with apologies to Joyce)

Doo Wai said to the dead fly, "come forth", but he came fifth and so he didn't get the job...

[bawang]

is doo wai a abc ? his english sounds too good

[Yum Cha]

Thing is, that fly came back today, it would just probably get squashed...

[David Jamieson]

Thing is, that fly came back today, it would just probably get squashed...

Nobody would listen over the sound of counting money and shooting guns at each other.

[KC Elbows]

When that fly comes back, the world will end.

Watch for the fly rapture.

[Yum Cha]

When that fly comes back, the world will end.

Watch for the fly rapture.

Yea, I read about that in Insectradamus....

[Yum Cha]

You sure its not Bug Fu Pai?

You know, transliteration and all that. Any native speakers here that can clue us in?

[IronWeasel]

You sure its not Bug Fu Pai?

You know, transliteration and all that. Any native speakers here that can clue us in?



Lol.


Comedy Gold:)

[David Jamieson]

it's not related to shoo fly pai is it?

cause I lurv that there shoo fly pai :p

[taai gihk yahn]

it's not related to shoo fly pai is it?

cause I lurv that there shoo fly pai :p

mamaaaa, a-when ya bake, mamaaa, I don't want cake, mamaaaa...

just gimmie a slice of that Doo Wai Pai...

[TAO YIN]

And...

THE CIRCLE JERK WINS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bukkakes next. YEAAAAAAAAAAH!

[David Jamieson]

And...

THE CIRCLE JERK WINS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bukkakes next. YEAAAAAAAAAAH!

of course it does. it always wins when the subject matter is ridiculous.
If there was an ounce of kung fu in what bfp puts out there, I think you would hear a lot of debate instead of one guy going "yes it is" and ten guys with long experience in kungfu saying "no it isn't"

lol.

[lkfmdc]

I am waiting for the BOOK!

[KC Elbows]

That's just the first book, which covered the original covenant, namely that the chosen people will pay on the first and fifteenth, and additional fees will be dealt with at the time of agreement.

That book became of less importance once the tale of the rebirth of the fly messiah was told. According to the new covenant, we must follow the way of the fly messiah, which preaches forgiveness, kindness, benevolence, rightousness, and certain and painful death to whosoever does not follow the ways of the fly messiah.

There are some who will suggest that the latter part is a bit off, and is a human misunderstanding of the words of the fly messiah, but these people are mostly the descendents of the forced converts of the first inquisition, as, in fly inquisitions even more than human ones, no one escapes the Spanish inquisition.

There is a later reading in which the fly messiah apparently wants us all to wear magic underwear and marry our young relatives, not really sure how that relates.

However, there are some who still believe in the words of the old covenant, and deal harshly with those who do not pay on the first and the fifteenth, with additional fees dealt with at the time of agreement.

[taai gihk yahn]

That's just the first book, which covered the original covenant, namely that the chosen people will pay on the first and fifteenth, and additional fees will be dealt with at the time of agreement.

That book became of less importance once the tale of the rebirth of the fly messiah was told. According to the new covenant, we must follow the way of the fly messiah, which preaches forgiveness, kindness, benevolence, rightousness, and certain and painful death to whosoever does not follow the ways of the fly messiah.

There are some who will suggest that the latter part is a bit off, and is a human misunderstanding of the words of the fly messiah, but these people are mostly the descendents of the forced converts of the first inquisition, as, in fly inquisitions even more than human ones, no one escapes the Spanish inquisition.

There is a later reading in which the fly messiah apparently wants us all to wear magic underwear and marry our young relatives, not really sure how that relates.

However, there are some who still believe in the words of the old covenant, and deal harshly with those who do not pay on the first and the fifteenth, with additional fees dealt with at the time of agreement.

Apostate...

[KC Elbows]

Apostate...

Technically, the only words of the fly messiah that reached us were "Help me..."

[IronWeasel]

I am waiting for the BOOK!



He should resurrect Billy Mays as his pitchman!

[KC Elbows]

He should resurrect Billy Mays as his pitchman!

Have you accepted the power of oxiclean into your life?

[TAO YIN]

David Jameison,


That's cool. I realize that. I will asume that you are knowledgeable about Kung Fu as well, as I have to assume that about everyone on this board.


So, tell me, what's wrong with the iron palm methods that BFP uses? The iron body? The two man stuff? What is wrong with it? It all looks pretty normal to me. What is wrong with it?

Aside from the Bukakke fly shiit?

[TAO YIN]

'I got a loan and opened up a school!'


Keep going with the Bukkake fly shiit yeaaaaaaah!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjAZloVS024

"But I was doing that at cataloguing speed, man!"

All fun. Who's next in line for the Bu Kak! Go centipede, go!

[David Jamieson]

David Jameison,


That's cool. I realize that. I will asume that you are knowledgeable about Kung Fu as well, as I have to assume that about everyone on this board.


So, tell me, what's wrong with the iron palm methods that BFP uses? The iron body? The two man stuff? What is wrong with it? It all looks pretty normal to me. What is wrong with it?

Aside from the Bukakke fly shiit?

It is all a weak imitation from my view point. Ineffective and in many cases laughable.

Side by side with "genuine" practitioners of these arts, doo wai looks like an idiot hack. There is no comparison.

Do you really think his stuff looks normal? really? I think the tom foolery with that camp is 100% self evident. From wrapping straight swords to dressing up and throwing weakly formed punches while not even connected to the ground!

outstandingly poor performances over and over again, utter failure to demonstrate any real kungfu and of course spurious and false claims.

junk.

[Jorge]

of course it does. it always wins when the subject matter is ridiculous.
If there was an ounce of kung fu in what bfp puts out there, I think you would hear a lot of debate instead of one guy going "yes it is" and ten guys with long experience in kungfu saying "no it isn't"

lol.

You make it sound like the 10 guys can't be wrong! A circle Jerk is not a debate! Then you wonder why more dont come on here to debate.

My dude I've been training for 27 yrs now. I've been involved in the arts since the age of 7 and have been doing hands since the age of 10 (full contact, I've never fought point). So whatcha saying!!! Your experience counts more then mine?:rolleyes: Yeah Right!! I'll continue to use and learn what I know works for me.

Did you look at the clip I posted of my sifu doing Wun Yeurn and Bak Fu? You want to see good BFP...take a look at the clip. I posted it earlier, but I'll post it again. My fav. is when the vid hits 1.26.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWBBM#p/a/u/1/TDVuttau-As - There's nothing mystical about this clip...jus good Kung Fu.:)

Buby

[TAO YIN]

Jamieson,

Okay, cool. Here we go then. You see it as a cheap imitation of what? Bak Mei? Bak Mei just looks like a cheap imitation of Boxing. Boxing looks like a cheap imitation of not being able to afford a knife...

On the net, I have seen one example of Doo Wai that is, so-so. The rest I have seen of it, is shiit. Unless we are talking for an 80 year old man. However, I have seen excellent examples.

The swords, and dresses, and stories, and all around psychological mess, yeah, I have not a clue about that. but can make a good guess. Anyhow, I agree with you there.

For the iron body training regiments, what is wrong with it? I see it as pretty beneficial. For their iron palm, such as their water training...Again what is wrong with it? It makes pretty good sense really and seems to work just fine. Their forms are pretty basic, gussied up Bak Mei if you want to look at it that way. Again what is wrong with them? How are they not efficient in a fight? Their two man stuff? Why is it bad and what have you actually seen of it?

I am not talking about people doing whatever bad,,,on the net. I am saying, the actual stuff, what is bad about it? If a person trains it to fight with it, how does it not work? How is it any different? What makes it different?

[Jorge]

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1032924]
Do you really think his stuff looks normal? really? I think the tom foolery with that camp is 100% self evident. From wrapping straight swords to dressing up and throwing weakly formed punches while not even connected to the ground!

One doesn't need to be connected to the ground in order to Fajin. Thats where the spine comes into play. Jook Lum Mantis has the same theory! Do you know your short hand?

Yes, it does look normal! I hit bags to train my iron palm...How many schools don't train in the same fashion. I put on Jow and hit a bag. Whats so Tom Foolery about that. The only Tom Foolery is you making believe you know what we train. Which is very obvious that you don't. Let me find out, you think I train with a Merlin hat on.LOLOL


Buby

[David Jamieson]

Look guys, if you wanna cling to that crap, go ahead. It's your crap and not mine.
I don't have a personal agenda, I'm just pointing out my observations according to what doo wai has provided everybody with over he years.

he is a charlatan. But if you've wasted a good chunk of your life following him, then, well I guess you will cling to it rather than take a look at what it really is.

hanging bags for IP eh? ok, at what stage do you use a hanging bag?

I personally have never used a hanging bag in IP although I do regularly use a heavy bag and am familiar with both the indirect and direct methods of developing Iron Palm. the heavy bag has nothing to do with the IP though. at least, not that which I have learned.

anyway, I"m not going to try to convince you. You've already convinced yourself. :)

Nobody defends this eejot except people who have paid him through the nose for his junk.

[TAO YIN]

Xiao Meng,

Everything that we buy and sell, all of it, is made up. Some people make it up, and they have leverage of some kind, for whatever reason, and then they can sell it, sometimes for expensive prices.

Then, you got people that don't have leverage, for whatever reason, and they can sell it, sometimes for moderate prices....And on and on.

Green Dragon's Iron Palm stuff is 100 bucks. James Mcneil's is 100 bucks. Some others are 200. Doo's is what, 500 on the web? Hey, what can I say, he's Chinese. LOL! Lao Wai is gonna pay! hehehe!

[TAO YIN]

Jamieson,

Talking for me, that is just it though. I haven't followed him. I got some of his information cheap. So what? It's not crap that I am clinging to. I am not clinging to it. I am just explaining to you that some of their methods are good. You make it out like I am a representative of their style and could give a shiit about their lineage...If he was selling it for 100 dollars, and acted properly, you wouldn't call him a charlatan. But, you would still wear your Nike shoes...If we want to look at it from the point of view of money, what Sifu do you know that isn't a charlatan? Come on, just a little bit right? hehe.

I am all for truth. That's it. I am not for arguing advertising philosophy on a kung fu forum...

You want to talk about iron palm, iron body, two man, forms, meds, cool. A hanging bag for iron palm is ideal because it is, hanging. You can build up your resistance slowly and get a different effect than slapping it on top of concrete or whatever. The heavier the bag, and the different materials, causes differences in resistance, which in turn causes differences in power and intent. As for the water training, do you know what it is? Do you think that it is a good idea to intend on making your hands act like water, so to speak?

Cheers,

[Jorge]

Here's the thing:

If Doo Wai makes sh*t up and sells it at a stupidly high price ($600 for his Wing Chun instructional tapes,) what's to say that he hasn't made cr@p up about his IP and everything else? His entire M.O. is self-serving charlatanry.

I'd get a kick out of Dale's critique of Doo Wai's IP training methods; I'm guessing the "real" aspects of his IP are really basic, and really expensive.

BTW, What are BFP's lesson fees? What's the fee for IP? Is there personal instruction or is it all via $500+ videos?

I dont know about the Wing Chun! Can you please point to the site. Thank you in advance!

I dont pay anything. I've been with Sifu Garry for 10yrs now.

I train one of his BFP Iron Palm methods (for free.LOLOL) and the training is nothing out the ordinary. I've also trained YKM iron palm (under Sifu Garry), Allen Lee's iron palm and the only difference is that BFP has more meditations. Everything else consist of hitting a bag.


Buby

[Jorge]

Look guys, if you wanna cling to that crap, go ahead. It's your crap and not mine.

-Exactly and we have see your crap. So its ok we will cling to ours.



I don't have a personal agenda, I'm just pointing out my observations according to what doo wai has provided everybody with over he years.

- I could care less if you did! over the years? Everybody is going by some videos he posted at 80 yrs of age! Most sifu's at his age perform their forms slow as hell so they dont fall off balance or loss posture. And your busting the mans balls behind that.LOLOL



he is a charlatan. But if you've wasted a good chunk of your life following him, then, well I guess you will cling to it rather than take a look at what it really is.

- Charlatan? Maybe! I don't know him well enough to talk, but he's got some good Fu. At least the way my sifu teaches it!

- You are assuming its a waste of time. Mere speculation, because to have proof you would have to train the system and feel it for yourself. Brother, I've trained boxing, kickboxing, MT and Yau Kung Mun! I dont have a fairytale resume! I'm pretty sure that I would be able to smell BS from a mile away. I stay away from all tales told in Chinese Kung Fu. If I wanted stories I would go to the book store. I love to train the hands, thats why I'm with my Sifu and Kru. They keep me grounded in reality!


anyway, I"m not going to try to convince you. You've already convinced yourself. :)

- No, my Sifu has, with the material he has had me training!

Nobody defends this eejot except people who have paid him through the nose for his junk.

- Funny, I haven't paid a single penny!LOLOL The best things in life are free!LOLOL

Buby

[David Jamieson]

really buby? what have you seen of my crap? lol

[Faruq]

Bubs, would you ever consider putting up some footage, or even just e-mailing some clips privately to show how you train. I've always been impressed based on what Sifu Garry's always said about you, and would really like to see how you train. At least the sparring, or playing hands.

Also, they tell me this article's about Bak Fu Pai:

"
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7月热词

白虎拳
求助编辑百科名片

白虎拳拳术之一身形如虎，拳出如风，已绝迹六十多年的白虎拳。

目录

简介
主要套路
切磋技艺

川内高手齐聚蓉城
绝迹白虎拳出手惊人
老外太极推手够地道

简介
　　成都江少明自10岁便拜师，苦练白虎拳38年。只见他双手忽左忽右飘忽不定，时而拳化掌，时而掌化成爪 ，让人莫辨虚实，拳路演毕，旁边众人不由哄然喝彩。据了解，这套白虎拳，是“失踪”数十年之后，首次出现在 世人面前。
　　古巴族是个崇拜白虎并以白虎为图腾的部落。秦汉时，四川就出现了“板楯七姓以射白虎为业“的职业武术者 ，在长期与虎搏击中，积累了丰富的搏斗技术，这些技击术，经历代拳师不断变革而衍化为今日之白 虎拳。
　　这种产生于四川地区的白虎拳，乃系峨眉派五虎拳（即白虎拳、黑虎拳、虎爪拳、虎啸拳、虎形拳）之首，是 一种高桩长拳拳术，全套五十六动，动作舒展，击法奇巧，虎形中带虎爪。突出提龙炮、虎尾腿等反击法。演武时 ，身倾靠体，凶猛、快速、劲力沉实，气势磅礴，虎虎生风。
主要套路
　　
[白虎拳]

峨眉派白虎拳，主要流传于川西、川东各地。据成都老拳师曾全忠介绍，白虎拳有升、腾、智、化四个特点，即有 升高如猛虎归林之形，腾似饿虎扑羊之猛，智应危难而不惊之巧，化强为弱之能。
　　白虎拳谱曾把它的技击特点概括为：白虎当道胆气壮，担山赶月追太阳；迎门暗藏铁扇子，虎距龙盘最难防； 迎刚化柔单边挡，遇敌直来须侧伤；上打猿猴攀垂柳，下攻势如虎扑羊；拳出南山虎豹惧，脚踢北海 蛟龙亡。
　　白虎拳技击腿法、手法均很丰富，如跟子腿、抢腿、摆腿、双飞燕以及百挂拳、杀手、飞云手、滑车手、斩手 、番云手等等。步法则以进、退、转、换、盖、插、跳步等为主；身法讲究浮、沉、吞、吐、俯、仰、屈、伸。眼 法多虎视。
切磋技艺
　　
[白虎拳]

身形如虎，拳出如风，劈山掌、铜头功、螳螂拳、梅花刀……雷剑宾馆8楼，来自少林、武当、峨眉、青城的武林 好手上演连台好戏，千手观音彭元子得意弟子、有“小老虎”之称的江少明挟绝迹60多年的白虎拳出山，其虎爪 刚健迅捷，刚一露面就吸引了媒体及众多高手。专程从美国芝加哥赶来访友切磋技艺的Bruce Moran按捺不住，也登台较技，一番颇为地道的太极推手赢得满堂彩。
川内高手齐聚蓉城
　　宾馆陆续出现了一批又一批身强体健的“怪客”，不少人手中都带着一个包裹，包裹里除了练武的“行头”之 外，还有刀、枪、剑等器械。八楼大门外，两名负责接待的人面前摆着一本小册子，册子上净是些峨眉、少林、青 城、僧门、查拳、洪门、字门、螳螂等名头。明眼人一看，就知道来的都是些“练家子”。
　　另一侧一个活动室内，一些“练家子”早已摆开了架势。8个小孩子正演练着螳螂拳，最小的邓安杰仅4岁。 他睁大好奇的眼睛，看着师兄、师姐们呼呼生风地打着各种套路。
　　峨眉派武学大师吴信良来了，青城派掌门刘绥滨来了，很快，从南充、德阳、乐山等地赶来的100多位武林 好手齐聚一堂。成都市武协副秘书长王学贤宣布：“成都2006峨眉武术论坛正式开始。”
绝迹白虎拳出手惊人
　　论坛上，已绝迹60多年的白虎拳吸引了大家的注意。白虎拳出自已故的有“蜀中第一快手之称的“千手观音 ”彭元子。彭元子穷尽一生，集峨眉僧门精华，挖掘出白虎、黑豹、金狮三套拳路，可惜一直无人得见。其成都弟 子江少明自10岁便拜师于彭元子门下，经38年的勤学苦练，终于有所成就。
　　“来，试试。”江少明在记者面前拉开架势，虎爪撩掌、恶虎扑食……只见他双手忽左忽右飘忽不定，时而拳 化掌，时而掌化成爪，让人不辨虚实，记者的面颊只觉一阵猛烈的风刮过，骇然不已。“千手千手，就是指周身都 是手，让你防不胜防。”拳路演完，旁边众人不由轰然喝彩。
　　江少明家住水井街，有“小老虎”之称，曾任解放军总前卫总教练。这套白虎拳，还是“失踪”数十年之后首 次出现在世人面前。
老外太极推手够地道
　　
[白虎拳]

白虎拳吸引了从芝加哥赶来的美国武林好手Bruce Moran的注意。53岁的Bruce Moran在芝加哥太极俱乐部任教练，研习中国的太极、八卦、气功等，对博大精深的中华武术倾慕不已。此次 专程赴成都进行医学交流，正赶上此次川内武术盛会。见江少明的白虎拳着实了得，他脱下外衣，以自己尤为擅长 的太极推手与江少明“过招”。
　　只见两人一只手臂“沾”在一起不停划圈，几番推揉下来，江少明右手一闪，也推至Bruce Moran的腹部。Bruce Moran地地道道的太极推手也让江少明佩服不已，对这名执着的老外，他竖起大拇指，连声“OK”，赞赏不 已。他说，Bruce Moran也窥知太极推手个中真味，让人不敢小觑。
　　论坛一直持续至下午6时许，少林、武当、峨眉、青城等十数位蜀中高手登台较技，其中不乏四川省传统武术 的冠军得主。

扩展阅读：

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[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1032924]
Do you really think his stuff looks normal? really? I think the tom foolery with that camp is 100% self evident. From wrapping straight swords to dressing up and throwing weakly formed punches while not even connected to the ground!

One doesn't need to be connected to the ground in order to Fajin. Thats where the spine comes into play. Jook Lum Mantis has the same theory! Do you know your short hand?

Yes, it does look normal! I hit hanging bags to train my iron palm...How many schools don't train in the same fashion. I put on Jow and hit a bag. Whats so Tom Foolery about that. The only Tom Foolery is you making believe you know what we train. Which is very obvious that you don't. Let me find out, you think I train with a Merlin hat on.LOLOL


Buby

[Dr.Harut]

David Ross....you don't have the right to play with our Teacher's photo....go and play with your photos.

[lkfmdc]

Dr Harut

Remember, even if you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter!

Now go support

[taai gihk yahn]

David Ross....you don't have the right to play with our Teacher's photo....go and play with your photos.

actually, parody of images of pubic personalities that exist in the public domain is perfectly legal; so he has every right to do just that;

[TAO YIN]

Lkfmdc,

Just paid loan. Watch this soy choy. Okay, mma guys do this. BRB gotta do some translating.

LOL

[Violent Designs]

I wish I could hire some vampire hitman for these guys.... seriously.

[Dragonzbane76]

He should resurrect Billy Mays as his pitchman!

I dam near fell outta my chair laughing at that.........:p:p:p

[Dr.Harut]

So, for example, if I get unethical and childish like Ross and play with his teacher's photo that would be legal yes? Although am not unethical as Ross is.

Am an athlete or supporter,that can be judged live...and I consider myself a practitionar of martial arts since 1976.

[Dragonzbane76]

So, for example, if I get unethical and childish like Ross and play with his teacher's photo that would be legal yes? Although am not unethical as Ross is

who cares it's the interwebs.....

some people take sh!t way to serious....

And a warning.... Ross has a way with getting under peoples skin...:) ask our local ding bat... he's infatuated with him......:D

[lkfmdc]

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5353&d=1248571462

If he's all cranky and pulling his panties out of his crack over THAT, just wait :D

[lkfmdc]

and PS, for those who don't remember, the whole reason the CTS go after Doo Wai is because he and his lunatic forum talked about CTS......

[TAO YIN]

There will never be another Doo Wai...

:D

Doo Wai is a real martial hero, everyone else is a pretender...

:D


Loans paid off for today guys? Continue the Bukkake to the left. You've got this forums face white...

[banditshaw]

I hear the grapes in napa are really good and very pungent. Gotta get out there one day. :cool:

[Dr.Harut]

Ross...I'll not call you names....but it was not on our forum we talked about your teacher...it was here and we apologized for it just because its unethical to talk about people who passed over.

[Dragonzbane76]

haha photo shop at it's best....

[Syn7]

Isn't Garry Hearfield (Fiercest Tiger) your sifu? If that is correct, then you certainly have learned his post fu well. :rolleyes: Besides, isn't Garry into the whole internal/healing aspect of martial arts now what with his Wun Yuen Yat Hei Jeung system and all? So, how can Buby be from a "different branch" when Garry espouses the same healing aspects as Doo Wai?

hey. im not trying to get between yall in this convo and i mos def arent taking sides but its my understanding that where lineage is concerned when a sigung has multiple sifu under them and they have seperate schools that this would be the beginning of a new branch... anytime i read up on a style i always head straight for the family tree and i see that pyramid effect going on, right. so how far removed do you guys think a line needs to be to be considered a different branch??? in my personal family tree(my real fam) my grandfather has three sons, my father being the oldest, i being his oldest, makes me the senior branch of our tree, but down the line it will be considered a different line, eventually. so, again, how far removed do yall think one needs to be to be considered a diff branch???
just curious...

[Syn7]

I don't concern myself with history, politics or all the mystical stuff. I like to train good hands regardless of style. I seek out teachers, not styles!

i agree, to an extent... but theoritically speaking, if two people who were equal studied under one sifu each, both equal in drive passion and ability to learn and teach, i still think some styles will outshine others. this gets hard to distinguish when one style is almost as good as the other but its really easy to distinguish with some styles... experience will tell you, sometimes, that certain styles are garbage... some styles are straight up fraud in my opinion. like some retard learns like 5 forms from a style, quits or is kicked out because of charactor issues then down the road starts teaching that style either under the same style name or even another they just made up. the results will not be the same as if you had learned from a teacher that has learned the whole style and can execute ALL its principles from begginer to expert. clearly, no matter how much effort is put in, one will be better than the other... esspecially when we're talking about internal styles. you always hear those stories of people hurting themselves or even killing themselves by doing chikung, or whatever, wrong. with these internal styles that have alot of depth, the small details make all the difference... just my opinion, but i know im not alone in thinking this way... its hard to know whats good and what isnt when your green, you just need to put in the time and educate yourself as best you can and with a little luck you'll find a truly authentic and great style... but maybe, probably, not on your first time out. esspecially if you just pick em out of the phone book. i feel if you go to a school and they get mad at you for learning asmuch as you can about kungfu in general, not the movements, but the history, the results etc etc, then maybe youre being taken for a ride... nothing wrong with doing some comparison on your own... just keep in mind that you are a novice and that you need to take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt and really listen to your intuition...

[Syn7]

I don't know, I would have to find out. If I'm not mistaken, Doo Wai's father taught the military and thats where Doo Wai's father met CLC. Doo Wai's family was also famous for their medicine and healing


but if he taught in the military would we not see others proficient in his style? regardless of whether they are allowed to teach it or not??? have you ever heard of anyone claiming to know BFP that didnt learn from doo wai??? not counting the whole jim lacy fiasco???

[David Jamieson]

hey. im not trying to get between yall in this convo and i mos def arent taking sides but its my understanding that where lineage is concerned when a sigung has multiple sifu under them and they have seperate schools that this would be the beginning of a new branch... anytime i read up on a style i always head straight for the family tree and i see that pyramid effect going on, right. so how far removed do you guys think a line needs to be to be considered a different branch??? in my personal family tree(my real fam) my grandfather has three sons, my father being the oldest, i being his oldest, makes me the senior branch of our tree, but down the line it will be considered a different line, eventually. so, again, how far removed do yall think one needs to be to be considered a diff branch???
just curious...

when your children have children. when teh style is mixed with other styles outside of what was taught originally

all the fudge leads back to jimmy and his half assed education in whatever it is he decides to dole out.

I find it hilarious that people put stock in cheffy mcfalseass :rolleyes:

well, that's enough vitriol about doo from me for now.

p.s name one old school master that vouches for him. ha!

[Syn7]

i think the only way i would ever believe that somebody ressurected a fly, a few criteria must be met...
#1 in person, its so easy to mess with film... maybe later i'll post myself on film making cards levitate, i can even do it live on webcam if need be, im not good enough to do it in person but it can obviously be done.. point is, its a trick even tho it looks awesome... i'd be willing to look at video as evidence but i thik i'd still be skeptical...
#2 i need to see you kill the fly person... i need to know how you intend on killing it and i'll need some time to do research to be satisfied that this will actually kill it... it must be done in a manner that leaves absolutely no boubt as to its death... if you can make a human appear dead with chemicals or meditation to doctors, and a fly is an insect with far greater constitution than a human, i need to know its dead beyond a shadow of a doubt...
#3 i need to see your hands and any other gear you may use, i insist you wash your hands etc, under my supervision, before the trick is done...
#4 if any parts are removed, like a head! i need that part to be reatached in the end... im no etymologist, but ive heard of other bugs actually living with less the 100% of their bodies, even the head... so, to behead a fly and see it fly away sans head, i dunno if that would be that impressive to me, i'd have to do some research first...
now if it was like a 1lb rat that i watched you chop its head off(better yet let me do it) and you reattached the head and revived it, then i'd be impressed forsure... again, i would need to see this in person tho... no sleaves, no switchy switchy... all done under my supervision and under my strict controls... im not a mystic... i believe in some things people see as mystical but i believe there are explanations... like chi for example, i find it fascinating that there are so many paralells between that philosophy and quantum field theory... im a scientist at heart and i use the scientifical method in all my research, theoretical or directly observable...



DR HAROUT... how do you kill the fly? do you kill it urself or do you just find one on the window sill thats been there for months? now that would be impressive, if done under previously specified controls...

[Jorge]

SYN7 -"i agree, to an extent... but theoritically speaking, if two people who were equal studied under one sifu each, both equal in drive passion and ability to learn and teach, i still think some styles will outshine others."


You just proved my point! You said if two people trained the same thing under the same sifu. Then it comes down to the individual. Thats why I search for teachers, not styles. Of course if I want to do grappling I'm not going to go to a kung fu sifu. I'm gonig to look for the best grappling instructor I can, kung fu or not. Regardless of style or fame. Fame wise.... We have a saying in PR, its the quite ones that have the music inside. I've found that to be very true.

Bro, thanks for your advice. I appreciate it! I've been around the block more then once and feel very confident in my Sifu and the arts he has chosen to share with me. I enjoy training them and they work for me...thats all that matters after all!

Yes Brother, a beginner for life as there is always something new. :)

Bless,

Buby

[Syn7]

when your children have children. when teh style is mixed with other styles outside of what was taught originally

word... so in the end, you feel that if you have a diff sigung its a new branch? does it have to be mixed with other styles? or can it just be a diff interpretation of the same style? i think i believe both....


all the fudge leads back to jimmy and his half assed education in whatever it is he decides to dole out.

huh? jim lacy you mean? explain please... do you consider lacy BFP???


p.s name one old school master that vouches for him. ha!

ive never heard anyone talk about him unless they were either a student or a critic... nothing else...
Ockham's razor states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one... so when all you have is negativity surrounding you from outside your own circle, the hype is probably the truth... i dont know him but he sure does have alot of haters calling him all sorts of things... i have never heard of any other sifu in north america surrounded by so much contraversy...

The student says: what does the true master do when he is on an airplain that is going to crash?
The Teacher replies: A true master wouldnt get on a plane that is going to crash...

so why did doo wai give lacy any material at all? did he B&E the guys house? purchase it? or was it given to him in good faith???
doo wai says lacy was never his student, but did they ever have any relationship in any way? or did some stranger jack this guy? how did doo wai even let lacy happen? im not being a critic, im on an info mission... i practice bak mei and thats the only reason i even know who he is... i am studying(intellectually, not physically) as many lines as i can find and doo wai popped and and all i can find is student testamonials of his greatness and everyone else dissing the guy... whuttup???

[Syn7]

SYN7 -"i agree, to an extent... but theoritically speaking, if two people who were equal studied under one sifu each, both equal in drive passion and ability to learn and teach, i still think some styles will outshine others."

no, you misunderstood... what i said was "i agree, to an extent... but theoritically speaking, if two people who were equal studied under one sifu EACH, both equal in drive passion and ability to learn and teach, i still think some styles will outshine others."
note the word EACH as in two teachers, two students, both equal in drive passion and ability to learn(the two students) and teach(the two teachers)

sorry if that was confusing...

[Syn7]

Jamieson,

Okay, cool. Here we go then. You see it as a cheap imitation of what? Bak Mei? Bak Mei just looks like a cheap imitation of Boxing. Boxing looks like a cheap imitation of not being able to afford a knife...


oh no he didnt... explain please? im curious as to the paralells you draw between bak mei and boxing??? what are you basing this on? while you are at it, could you please list the bak mei forms you are familliar with and, again, draw some paralells for me...





On the net, I have seen one example of Doo Wai that is, so-so. The rest I have seen of it, is shiit. Unless we are talking for an 80 year old man. However, I have seen excellent examples.

The swords, and dresses, and stories, and all around psychological mess, yeah, I have not a clue about that. but can make a good guess. Anyhow, I agree with you there.

For the iron body training regiments, what is wrong with it? I see it as pretty beneficial. For their iron palm, such as their water training...Again what is wrong with it? It makes pretty good sense really and seems to work just fine. Their forms are pretty basic, gussied up Bak Mei if you want to look at it that way. Again what is wrong with them? How are they not efficient in a fight? Their two man stuff? Why is it bad and what have you actually seen of it?

I am not talking about people doing whatever bad,,,on the net. I am saying, the actual stuff, what is bad about it? If a person trains it to fight with it, how does it not work? How is it any different? What makes it different?


and one more question... do you agree that the top senior of any style should be the shining example of said style??? ive seen the one clip of doo wai in the 70's and it was "so so"... curious as to your thoughts on this...

[Syn7]

Jamieson,

Talking for me, that is just it though. I haven't followed him. I got some of his information cheap. So what? It's not crap that I am clinging to. I am not clinging to it. I am just explaining to you that some of their methods are good. You make it out like I am a representative of their style and could give a shiit about their lineage...If he was selling it for 100 dollars, and acted properly, you wouldn't call him a charlatan. But, you would still wear your Nike shoes...If we want to look at it from the point of view of money, what Sifu do you know that isn't a charlatan? Come on, just a little bit right? hehe.

i pay 60 bucks a month for three classes a week. each class is between 3 to 4 hours long, if you come early and stay to the end for pingpong :D ... and sifu always buys us lunch and gives us stuff... the lucky money envelopes before demos or lion dances (usually both), etc etc... he's a respected member of his community, EVERYONE thinks he's the man and he has his own money seperate from kungfu... he does it for the love of the art and the fact that he believes its whats good for the community... he's not out to get rich... there are no tapes or books for sale and you do not pay a fee for level tests as their arent any... we dont charge for demos and we are always down to help rep for a sister school... to me, thats real... a huge selling point for anyone lookig into the style... he has bought all the gear from his own pocket and its my understanding the 60 bucks goes to the athletic association(oldskool hongkong style), not his pocket...

[Syn7]

So, for example, if I get unethical and childish like Ross and play with his teacher's photo that would be legal yes? Although am not unethical as Ross is.

Am an athlete or supporter,that can be judged live...and I consider myself a practitionar of martial arts since 1976.

omg how old are you? after i had a look at doo wais message board i really thought you guys were kids... the amount of crazy lacy bickering is absolutely staggering... i havent seen enough of the style to really judge for myself, but based on doo wais posts and those who claim to be able to "speak for him" i was left shaking my head... even doo wai acts like a child with the bickering... incredible... unbelievable how petty that board is... i went straight to the last page, saw like 4 legit posts and then after that 95% were jim lacy threads... it doesnt make you guys look good as "ethical" people... if it was me, i would just ignore the guy already, its clear he's a moron, if its even him... whether it is or isnt is irrelevant though. you all walk right into his bull**** headfirst with a very immature gusto... so how old are you? are you a doctor for real? doctor of what?

and why did you ban me from the youtube comments? i dont know what i said that was so offensive but apparently you guys feel the need to censor what is written about your sifu...

[taai gihk yahn]

if it was me, i would just ignore the guy already, its clear he's a moron, if its even him... whether it is or isnt is irrelevant though. you all walk right into his bull**** headfirst with a very immature gusto...
my understanding is that this whole Lacy dialogue is self-generated; I forget how / where this came up, but suposedly they post as Lacy to generate controversy and then "answer" him in a way that seems to trump him;
I think Doo Wai has lost his marbles a bit - seems like he acts like a typical paranoid / schizoid type; I think he's been spinning his yarn about BFP for so long that he believes it (I mean, c'mon, if u can't see what he does is basically re-hashed bok mei; and if not, it's so similar it is essentially the same); and he performs hie forms horribly - and LMAO at the "excuse" that he's 80 y/o - last I recall, in TCMA the older u got, the better you were supposed to get? funy how it's convenitly flipped around here; and also, fine, if he's 80 maybe he won't move w the same power, speed, intensity - but the fluidity, the CONNECTION of the entire body will be evident - there are several vids of "old guys" doing their thing out there from various styles, and what they all possess is that integrated movement quality - w DooWai, he's all over the place (my favoite is how he's got his head turned away from the direction he moves / does things, looking kinda off to the lower right diagonal - or is that a strategy of BFP, not to look at what u r doing?)


so how old are you? are you a doctor for real? doctor of what?
he's a Family Practice "specialist" in Beirut - it's basically the most generalized area of medicine, primary care medicine in all it's glory (u know, kids w/sniffles and old ladies w/lower extremity venous pooling); last he told, he was going to emigrate to the US and get a license to practice here (I hope he doesn't think that insect resurrection is part of USMLE...)


and why did you ban me from the youtube comments? i dont know what i said that was so offensive but apparently you guys feel the need to censor what is written about your sifu...
this is a standard m.o. of their's - they seem to want absolute ctrl of the commentary, so if u r deemed a loose thread, out u go!

[TAO YIN]

Syn7,

Hello, how are you? See, proper! Seriously, thank you very much for responding, properly. I am not used to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH3QeNoqmn8

That is the video that I was talking about as being, so-so. It is so so from about the 41 second mark. Nice back fists followed by a nailing kick with a smashing bridge strike. Throughout the video, he is going pretty fast. Sure, his posture isn't as low as it could be. Again he is going fast. If he has soft ging for real, you wouldn't see it in his body anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjleYT8oSog

That is another video, of a master doing 9 step push. Both different both doing different things. One is harder, one is softer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6zlaIl0yh0

That is Tyson. Look at his shadow boxing. Good somewhat stationary, Horse no T no V stance. Great Bil Jee. Great Chum Choy. Great Uppercut.


My point in telling Jamieson that was basically, why waste time? I think I ended it with knifes. Why not guns? Knifes are just watered down versions of guns. Right?

But, in my opinion, when you break Bak Mei down to it's simplest stuff, it is just (fancy) for lack of a better word, boxing. There are only so many different ways the hands will move to hit a person and it be effective. Bak Mei has a few more than boxing, but the bare elements of it are basically the same. I should say the same as Peek a Boo, Boxing. That is taking away the Kum La Saus, and Tiger Claws. The idea being, get in close, then maim. Boxing has 4 hands right? Bak Mei has 8? Inside Bak Mei's 8 are boxings 4. Maybe save for a hook?

I am familiar with all of the Bak Mei forms. Bak Mei Kung Fu is like all other Kung Fu, it looks good until you get smacked in the face by a right cross. After that happens, Fung Kuil doesn't work very well. You go back to the basics of the art after that, and see what you can come up with. Usually after that, the criss cross hands opening up Mung Fu Chut Lum doesn't help, unless you are using the knee that is. Those are just some connections I can write at the moment.

To answer your question, no I don't think the senior is always the best example. Sometimes, they are the best example. If the senior is always the best, the style will become much worse over time.

Anyhow, wrote to much there. Bad habit. Nice talking to you though. Cheers!

:)

I forgot to mention because you didn't say this to me. But I don't really like Occam's Razor when it comes to people. Psychologically, people have a pretty bad habit of screwing Occam's Razor in many different ways. People and cultures are too subjective for Occam's Razor to work on them all of the time.

[Yum Cha]

...But, in my opinion, when you break Bak Mei down to it's simplest stuff, it is just (fancy) for lack of a better word, boxing. There are only so many different ways the hands will move to hit a person and it be effective. Bak Mei has a few more than boxing, but the bare elements of it are basically the same. I should say the same as Peek a Boo, Boxing. That is taking away the Kum La Saus, and Tiger Claws. The idea being, get in close, then maim. Boxing has 4 hands right? Bak Mei has 8? Inside Bak Mei's 8 are boxings 4. Maybe save for a hook?

I am familiar with all of the Bak Mei forms. Bak Mei Kung Fu is like all other Kung Fu, it looks good until you get smacked in the face by a right cross. After that happens, Fung Kuil doesn't work very well. You go back to the basics of the art after that, and see what you can come up with. Usually after that, the criss cross hands opening up Mung Fu Chut Lum doesn't help, unless you are using the knee that is. Those are just some connections I can write at the moment..

In all honesty, shouldn't you say this is the Yau Kung Mun and White Tiger you learned from Gary, that YOU reckon is the same as Pak Mei?

[Syn7]

interesting... lemme digest that then i'll respond... one thing ive noticed about bak mei tho, after the first few forms, the style starts to morph into something, for lack of better words, 'more'... dont get me wrong, the fundamentals are still there but theres 'more'... if you only mastered up to ying jow, you couldnt really say that you know bak mei... im still pretty new to this style but im liking it so far... how many forms have you seen?

i always liked tysons style. pretty useless from the outside but once inside the guy was a menace...

as for occams razor, its an assumption after all, so it should never be your final opinion, but its a great place to start...

[Syn7]

I am familiar with all of the Bak Mei forms. Bak Mei Kung Fu is like all other Kung Fu, it looks good until you get smacked in the face by a right cross. After that happens, Fung Kuil doesn't work very well. You go back to the basics of the art after that, and see what you can come up with. Usually after that, the criss cross hands opening up Mung Fu Chut Lum doesn't help, unless you are using the knee that is. Those are just some connections I can write at the moment.


you learned bak mei from gary? he's in oz right... you are too? please tell me you train in peson... i have some serious fundamental disagreements with online martial arts courses... if you are in oz, are you familiar with the yaolin association?

anyways, yeah i been talking to heartfield (is that his name? fierce tiger?) on youtube and we arent practicing the same bak mei... like, its not a lil bit diff, its alot different... there are a few similarities but, its not the same... can you list the forms in order for me.... youve learned em all? seen them all?

[Yum Cha]

interesting... lemme digest that then i'll respond... one thing ive noticed about bak mei tho, after the first few forms, the style starts to morph into something, for lack of better words, 'more'... dont get me wrong, the fundamentals are still there but theres 'more'... if you only mastered up to ying jow, you couldnt really say that you know bak mei... im still pretty new to this style but im liking it so far...

And you can already tell the difference, well done. Some guys never pick it up.

[Syn7]

To answer your question, no I don't think the senior is always the best example. Sometimes, they are the best example. If the senior is always the best, the style will become much worse over time.

no i mean, do you believe the senior SHOULD be the best example... i dont mean with the hands, obviously the well accomplished middle agers are gonna look better in demo to a 90 year old... i mean best example in an all encompassing manner? to me, martial arts is more than fighting... if i wanted to be the best fighter i would spend more time fighting, less time breathing... feel me?

[Syn7]

And you can already tell the difference, well done. Some guys never pick it up.

thanx... :)

[Dr.Harut]

I am happy with my "Family Medicine" practice...and right now am having a small lunch break in my office, whats wrong about it? I am my own boss and thanks God my income is well...as for emigrating...when I get my papers done, will emigrate to US..its taking years to get papers done...The reason for me doing the necessary documental papers for emigration is that middle east will not have a peaceful time, and I don't want my kids to get grown up in non-stable environment, otherwise am well in all aspects.

[taai gihk yahn]

I am happy with my "Family Medicine" practice...and right now am having a small lunch break in my office, whats wrong about it?
nothing, but it's hardly critical care; although if u include resuscitating dead insects and decapitated rodents, I suppose it could be considered that;


I am my own boss and thanks God my income is well...as for emigrating...when I get my papers done, will emigrate to US..its taking years to get papers done...The reason for me doing the necessary documental papers for emigration is that middle east will not have a peaceful time, and I don't want my kids to get grown up in non-stable environment, otherwise am well in all aspects.
dude, in all seriousness, why bother coming to the US? assuming you can get a green card (which takes a few years at this point), you realize that it will take you somewhere around 5 - 7 years to get licensed here, and that's assuming you pass USMLE Steps 1 - 3, TOEFL and CSA, get your ECFMG certification, match for a residency as a FMG (although that shouldn't be too hard for FP, especially if you apply to some of the crappier hospitals in Queens or Brooklyn, assuming you come to NYC; of course, there's always Fifth Pathway, if you don't mind living in the middle of nowhere for several years) and pass your licensure and boards; then you have to get set up somewhere, and if it's your own practice, all I can say is welcome to the wild world of Medicare, Medicaid, Worker's Comp and health-care reform (meaning that your earning potential isn't going to b more than $200,000 K per year absolute tops, and you are going to work like a dog for that)...
I;m not saying this to be a jerk, seriously, but you may have no idea what you are in for; also, i hope u have a well-stocked bank account, because the whole INS thing, assuming you have an attorney (which I strongly recommend, otherwise u r going to get screwed by the INS system one way or another), is going to cost at absolute minimum something like $3,000.00 in fees over however many years it takes (and if you are brining family, it's going to be quite a bit more), and the USMLE / ECFMG bit ain't cheap either; not to mention that you won't even be able to work as a physician the entire time you are applying / testing;
why not just move to Turkey, Syria or Jordan? or try Germany, or Netherlands or Scandinavia that has to be easier...

[TAO YIN]

Syn7,

I learned most of my material from my Sifu, yes. I am not in OZ, but lived there in his school for a while, traveled back, and talk on the internet. He teaches Yau Kung Mun too. You know Yau Kung Mun? It is from Har Hon Hung. He was one of CLC's top disciples in the beginning in Guangzhou. Our hand forms there are the same (save a few moves for each form) that you find in Hong Kong Bak Mei more or less. You can easily find some sites that list those hand forms. The internal Yau Kung Mun is different though. Creates a whole different energy. My Sifu, also taught me Bak Fu, O Mei Bak Mei, and the differences between all of them.

Also, I lived in China for 4 years, heading around the country training what styles I could and testing what I had learned out. Traveled around lots there, Thailand for Muay Thai, etc...

I remember in Guangzhou and around checking the Bak Mei guys out there and having a few friends, there Bak Mei had the same hand forms. The energy was different, but that was akin to the Sifu rather than the forms, which is what you will find more than anything in styles. No two people teach and do the same. That is where the differences occur. The forms don't really cause as much of a difference as the people teaching them do...

In Foshan, there Bak Mei is very different. They go off in a different way than any of CLC's boys. Is that what kind of Bak Mei you study? It is good stuff. I met a few Foshan guys in Foshan, they had excellent hands. The Fishmonger's Fu looks good too.

If you are talking about the forms that come from CLC's boys, I have learned most of them and definitely seen all of them and their variations, save for a few weapon forms. Rather than list them, which form are you interested in discussing?

About the senior question, I hope to agree with you and say yes in most cases. But, it's not a perfect world. Some senior Kung Fu practitioners are, idiots...


Yum Cha,

Do you really want to get going on this? That's cool. When did you change your horse stance from Sigung Leung's relaxed horse to Ah Sing's inverted knees horse? Was that before or after you left Sigung Leung? Who was it that your now Sigung learned from before he went to CLC in the end? Wonder if his horse was different before he went to CLC? HHH must have taught him differently before he went to CLC, right?

[Jorge]

And you can already tell the difference, well done. Some guys never pick it up.

Yum Cha,

I think sifu demoed the Omie Pak Mei, because it is different to CLCs. CLCs is very hakka'ish and Omei's isn't!

And your right! We dont do things the same...I've seen your vids. We Ha Hum Batt Boy, we dont hunch over the way you guys do. Nor do we train Jik Bo the way you performed in your vid. Your sut choy looks like it was being pushed out and we dont train it like that either. Matter of fact, I've never seen any Pak Mei perform it the way you did.

I really didn't understand what you ment before, but after seeing the vid, I do know.


Tao - its cool Big Bro!:) Have you seen his Jik Bo...They are different then us! Even if our Sijo and Sigung was a major player in teaching there line, but it seems they have gone else where with theres. Which is cool!


Buby

[Syn7]

If you are talking about the forms that come from CLC's boys, I have learned most of them and definitely seen all of them and their variations, save for a few weapon forms. Rather than list them, which form are you interested in discussing?

oh i have a list of the forms at my school... i would like a list of all your clc bak mei forms in order to see the differences in your curriculum... one obviously cant learn it all from a list of forms but its a starting point for finding either similarities or differences...

how many forms have you learned from clc bakmei???

nah i aint foshan... im clc hk... i dont like the foshan asmuch from what i can see... i like the guy in france tho, his power is nice... dude is a skyscraper of a man... we've chatted it up a bit and he's a good guy, i respect him and his thang... i still dont know how i feel about dragon house... i know i dont like dragon houses attitudes, from what ive seen(i reserve judgement on further study) but the juries still out on the forms... he has power but he seems like a roid monkey thuggish type to me... from what ive seen so far, his ego is just right out of control... but, again. i gotta mention that im still looking into it and reserve the right to change my mind at any time...

[Syn7]

;)
I think sifu demoed the Omie Pak Mei, because it is different to CLCs. CLCs is very hakka'ish and Omei's isn't!


i watched that vid you posted and a few more in the links on that youtube page and heartfield told me that it wasnt clc bak mei in that vid...

im clc hk and its "hakka'ish"...

also, i heard before yall talkin bout the back thing... we dont have that hollowback thing like you see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwBOeRSnDWc

it looks more like this(this isnt us, i just did a quick search to find something somewhat similar, although these are just kids and arent that good, yet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JerBPUcC0M

how many of yall learn via internet or video exchange??? what do all you guys think about this? personally, i find this to be a substandard method of teaching and learning... its one thing if you learn a style then move away and use video to keep in touch with ur sifu and get some pointers and limited corrections but as a way of starting from scratch and learning a whole system? nah, i dont feel thats a good idea... ive heard people say "even colleges teach courses over the net now" as some sort of justification... but to me that speaks volumes... it screams to me that they dont truly understand whats going on here... my sifu uses his eyes and hands to correct us or make a point and i dont think i would be anywhere near where i am without that... like the time he "lightly" chopped me in the neck to make a point, it wasnt very hard but i had that electric shock thang all down my right side and it even numbed me up for a few minutes... it was an invaluable learning experience that could never have happened over a webcam... i can give a million examples...

[taai gihk yahn]

you know, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if anyone has any lingering doubts as to whether or not Doo Wai has taken a detour into crazy-land, they just need to look at this video to put all that to rest...
http://www.WhiteTigerWorld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64

I mean, can someone, ANYONE, please explain the rational for something as gut-wrenchingly miserable as this?

[Syn7]

you know, I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if anyone has any lingering doubts as to whether or not Doo Wai has taken a detour into crazy-land, they just need to look at this video to put all that to rest...
http://www.WhiteTigerWorld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=64

I mean, can someone, ANYONE, please explain the rational for something as gut-wrenchingly miserable as this?

isnt that the outfit jack nicholson is wearing as the joker in the first batman when they storm the party and try to jack up the blond??? must have been shopping at the warner bros. clearance sale...

[taai gihk yahn]

isnt that the outfit jack nicholson is wearing as the joker in the first batman when they storm the party and try to jack up the blond??? must have been shopping at the warner bros. clearance sale...

rotflmao!

har, u are correct, sir!

[Dragonzbane76]

Originally Posted by Syn7
isnt that the outfit jack nicholson is wearing as the joker in the first batman when they storm the party and try to jack up the blond??? must have been shopping at the warner bros. clearance sale...



rotflmao!

har, u are correct, sir!

haha nail on the head my good man... nail on the head....lol

[Yum Cha]

Syn7,

Do you really want to get going on this? That's cool.

Gee, is this like truth or dare?

I'm always happy to talk about the differences between YKM and Pak Mei. Having studied both, yet from a common SiGung, I have a uniquely qualified perspective, IMHO.

The two have a different power dynamic, what you like to call ging. YKM has 'more stuff' in it, more complicated interpretations of techniques and 'accented' style breathing. They also train a lot more of the Iron skills. Yea, the forms are similar, but they are done differently. At the advanced stage, YKM goes into the ball forms and the that internal side. Pak Mei has a different approach to that internal energy development.

Novices can't tell the difference, and yet they seem to blather on the most about it. YKM is much harder throughout, until you get to the softer stuff at the end. PM starts softening up earlier. The Hung influence is very strong in YKM, if you've ever seen James train, you'd know what I mean.

I was there, going round after round the the National Heavyweight champ, Eduardo. After a few weeks I even learned to hit him. Few weeks later, he started hitting back. Sam used to beat me up regularly too. You do know who Sam is? These are my brothers. I catch up with them at NYE when they do lion dancing at the Temple.

Sifu Leung Cheung was a legend, and proud of the YKM style and heritage he helped to build, and didn't want to be absorbed into the Pak Mei pai. He chided me once for doing that, and now I do my best to follow his wishes. So, if my honour clashes with your aspirations, sorry mate. Not that I'd expect you to understand.



When did you change your horse stance from Sigung Leung's relaxed horse to Ah Sing's inverted knees horse?

When I changed from YKM to PM.


Was that before or after you left Sigung Leung?

After Sifu Leung retired, he passed me to Sifu Leung YS, who taught Pak Mei. I was the only one that was passed this way to Sifu Leung YS. With tea.


Who was it that your now Sigung learned from before he went to CLC in the end?

He learned with Har Hon Hong when HHH was with CLC teaching Pak Mei, the early days, and he learned directly from CLC and Lam Yeu Gwai as he got older. But that's not his most notable honour. The fact he carried the seniority through the years of the red guard, great leap forward and all that, in those very difficult times is why he is so respected. His activities during that 30 years is what sets him apart.


Wonder if his horse was different before he went to CLC? HHH must have taught him differently before he went to CLC, right?

You're an idiot, or you must be joking. This is pure tounge fu BS, typical of a forum rat and video student.

But then, you see similarities in the technique of Mike Tyson and Doo Wai....

Go figure..

[TAO YIN]

Yum Cha,

Good perspective. No this isn't like truth or dare. You was being snide, so I was being snide.

So now I am a forum rat and video student? Wow! I guess when I lived in Oz, China, Thailand, wherever, my teachers videoed there stuff for me?

I was joking. Didn't you like it? Tongue Fu? Come on man, you should know that I don't do that.

You should be calling me pardner instead of mate, don't you think?

You have always gotten piissy if any of us from Sifu Garry's camp questioned you, in one way or another. Then, when we would come to see you, you would be nice. No need to not be nice.

You catch up with Sam often? Cool, I thought he was in prison. He must have got out. I have seen James train. We went over all our stuff with him. He smacked me in the mouth in the process.

Anyhow, as long as you are going to be a shiit to me, I'll be one to you. It's simple. As long as you are going to be nice, like you actually are in reality, I will be nice too. Don't be a cuunt to me just because I didn't study at the same time as you did. Grow up.

[bawang]

. He smacked me in the mouth in the process.


and u just took it. like a womans.

[David Jamieson]

mmmm kettle of fish

[Hardwork108]

.....dude, in all seriousness, why bother coming to the US? assuming you can get a green card (which takes a few years at this point), you realize that it will take you somewhere around 5 - 7 years to get licensed here, and that's assuming you pass USMLE Steps 1 - 3, TOEFL and CSA, get your ECFMG certification, match for a residency as a FMG (although that shouldn't be too hard for FP, especially if you apply to some of the crappier hospitals in Queens or Brooklyn, assuming you come to NYC; of course, there's always Fifth Pathway, if you don't mind living in the middle of nowhere for several years) and pass your licensure and boards; then you have to get set up somewhere, and if it's your own practice, all I can say is welcome to the wild world of Medicare, Medicaid, Worker's Comp and health-care reform (meaning that your earning potential isn't going to b more than $200,000 K per year absolute tops, and you are going to work like a dog for that)...
I;m not saying this to be a jerk, seriously, but you may have no idea what you are in for; also, i hope u have a well-stocked bank account, because the whole INS thing, assuming you have an attorney (which I strongly recommend, otherwise u r going to get screwed by the INS system one way or another), is going to cost at absolute minimum something like $3,000.00 in fees over however many years it takes (and if you are brining family, it's going to be quite a bit more), and the USMLE / ECFMG bit ain't cheap either; not to mention that you won't even be able to work as a physician the entire time you are applying / testing;
why not just move to Turkey, Syria or Jordan? or try Germany, or Netherlands or Scandinavia that has to be easier...

Dr Harout can also try to enquire about the up and coming economies of Brazil and even Colombia (where I live), where as a Medical professional he will probably have a higher standard of living than most other places in the "First World", without the governments snooping on his every move, I might add.

Actually, Brazil would be my choice as it will probably have many immigrants from his culture, specially the city of Sao Paolo.

[TAO YIN]

Bawang,

I did just take it like a woman! LOL! Then, when we left, Sifu started laughing his arse off and asked me why in the fark I didn't smack him right back. I wasn't sure of the politics there, that dude being my senior and all...Good laugh though, 40 year olds smacking 20 year olds in the mouth.

[TAO YIN]

Jamieson,

What the heell does kettle of fish mean? Where is your Toishan Black Tiger website, you take it down?

[taai gihk yahn]

Dr Harout can also try to enquire about the up and coming economies of Brazil and even Colombia (where I live), where as a Medical professional he will probably have a higher standard of living than most other places in the "First World", without the governments snooping on his every move, I might add.

Actually, Brazil would be my choice as it will probably have many immigrants from his culture, specially the city of Sao Paolo.

Brazil is definitely an up and coming economy, as long as you don't go into certain parts of the country w/out armored escort;

Colombia, I hear, is nice - a good long-time friend of mine is in Bogota where he is working as the military attache / liason to the US embassy (and BTW, HW, he liked the outfit that you were wearing the other night as you were coming home from work...;))

[Hardwork108]

Brazil is definitely an up and coming economy, as long as you don't go into certain parts of the country w/out armored escort;
I could write an essay about security problems in Brazil, and not all of it is as it appears, however suffice to say that people of professional careers have great lives over there.

For example, Rio de Janeiro is one of the most beautiful cities on earth it has a tropical climate; it has many great residential neighborhoods, each with its own character, and as far as I am concerned the best one out of the lot (and on the planet) is Ipanema, where interestingly quite a few medical practitioners have located their practice.

[I am just wondering if Sanjuro passed any time in this part of town when he was in Rio, relatively recently. However, one would have to live in Ipanema for a few months to really appreciate the greatness of life there.]


Colombia, I hear, is nice - a good long-time friend of mine is in Bogota where he is working as the military attache / liason to the US embassy (and BTW, HW, he liked the outfit that you were wearing the other night as you were coming home from work...;))

I live in Cali, not in Bogota, so your friend must have seen my cousin who lives in Bogota, he was never the same after completing his university studies in San Francisco...:D

Seriously speaking, Bogota is a world class city. it is a cosmopolitan city with a great night life, culture and business opportunities. The climate there is not so great, and that is one of the reasons that I live in Cali, which is Colombia's third city (the second being the great city of Medellin). The economy here is growing, hence my suggestion for Dr Harout.

Anyway, I hope that your friend is having a great time in Bogota.

[taai gihk yahn]

I live in Cali, not in Bogota.
I never said he saw you personally or saw you in Bogota; cameras are portable and minions do travel at their master's bidding ;)

but yeah, he's down there w his family a few yrs now, he was in Argentina before, working his way up the food chain; they all seem to b enjoying themselves, but his wife was complaining that she was tired of not being able to drive herself around...:eek:

[Hardwork108]

I never said he saw you personally or saw you in Bogota; cameras are portable and minions do travel at their master's bidding ;)
I am going to keep my eyes open, even more than usual, it seems...;)


but yeah, he's down there w his family a few yrs now, he was in Argentina before, working his way up the food chain; they all seem to b enjoying themselves, but his wife was complaining that she was tired of not being able to drive herself around...:eek:
:eek:

That just goes to prove that you can never keep women happy. I mean not many people complain about someone else driving them around...LOL

I don't know what is stopping her from driving herself?:confused:

I guess it has something to do with security issues related to the fact that she is related to US military personnel?

Anyway, I am glad that they are enjoying themselves, and I hope that they will have good things to say about Colombia when they return home.

It seems that many outsiders think that the minute they step off the plane in a Colombian airport, they will be machine gunned by the mafia types, which is a total misconception. Luckily, the good word seems to be spreading about the hidden paradise, that is Colombia, even if this country has its problems, just like other nations in the world.

[taai gihk yahn]

I am going to keep my eyes open, even more than usual, it seems...;)
we will know if you are not keeping the pleats on your chinos well ironed...:p


That just goes to prove that you can never keep women happy.
people still try?;:confused::confused::confused: ;)


I mean not many people complain about someone else driving them around...LOL
my wife drives a WRX Impreza and hates being driven - she gets it from her dad, a soviet era airforce colonel who flew migs in Afganistan - he hates going on commercial flights!


I don't know what is stopping her from driving herself?:confused:
I guess it has something to do with security issues related to the fact that she is related to US military personnel?
that is my understanding of it, in a nutshell; it's apparently policy for embassy personell / families to be driven / have some sort of detail when out and about;


Anyway, I am glad that they are enjoying themselves, and I hope that they will have good things to say about Colombia when they return home.
she posts frequently on FB w/a very positive take on the place - and they have travelled to / lived in various countries, so it's a rather well-informed opinion


It seems that many outsiders think that the minute they step off the plane in a Colombian airport, they will be machine gunned by the mafia types, which is a total misconception. Luckily, the good word seems to be spreading about the hidden paradise, that is Colombia, even if this country has its problems, just like other nations in the world.
it's like anywhere: you go to my wife's country, latvia, and despite all the stories of baltic misery you hear, it still functions day to day, and there are many positive things about it; just that the NY TImes only runs stories about how it's economy is gone to sh1t, etc. - nothing about the culture, history, etc.

[Hardwork108]

we will know if you are not keeping the pleats on your chinos well ironed..
Hey, those are the Mexicans you are talking about. Everybody in this forum knows that I walk around in silk pyjamas...:D



people still try?;:confused::confused::confused: ;)
Well, personally speaking, I focus on pleasing them when I am trying to score. Afterwards, they will just have to like me for who I am....:D



my wife drives a WRX Impreza and hates being driven
She is well ahead of me. I don't drive here in Cali, as kind of live in an area that has everything and is close to everything. So, I just take cabs when I want to go further, and taxi rides are very cheap in this city. So, without sounding pompous, I would say that I have gotten used to being driven around, even though I am more used to walking every where....LOL


she gets it from her dad, a soviet era airforce colonel who flew migs in Afganistan - he hates going on commercial flights!
Her dad was is a Soviet war veteran?:eek:

I bet that you are treating her daughter ever so nice...;)




that is my understanding of it, in a nutshell; it's apparently policy for embassy personell / families to be driven / have some sort of detail when out and about;
That is understandable. I would only hope that she and her husband could sometimes go out kind of incognito and experience all that Bogota has to offer, without the "entourage", as IMHO, they would absorb more.



she posts frequently on FB w/a very positive take on the place - and they have travelled to / lived in various countries, so it's a rather well-informed opinion

Facebook eh?

Maybe she and her husband want to encourage their friends to visit them in Bogota?:D

Could we be seeing Taai gihk yahn in our shores in the near future?:eek:



it's like anywhere: you go to my wife's country, latvia, and despite all the stories of baltic misery you hear, it still functions day to day, and there are many positive things about it; just that the NY TImes only runs stories about how it's economy is gone to sh1t, etc. - nothing about the culture, history, etc.

Very true. It seems that the developed countries pass the time badmouthing the developing countries, while many (not all) of the developing countries are doing the opposite.

I really believe that if more people knew how life really was in other places, they would leave to search for more normal; less hectic and controlled (manipulated?) lives abroad. Of course, because of the free-er flow of information nowadays, many are doing exactly that.

[Syn7]

from reading thru doo wais board it is very obvious that criticism gets to him enough that he wants to clear his name... and thats understandable... but if bak fu pai is a family style then why arent there any cousins or other relatives or close family friends that can attest to the authenticity of the style? i dont even mean others that learned it, just some1, any1, that knew it existed... so far i have found the lineage to be virtually unverifiable... im not saying 100% but it doesnt look good... str8 up, it looks like he made it up...

and the there the ermei bak mei... i have yet to this date find any info that isnt related to doo wai... is that supposed to be a secret family style too??? what i do know is that clc kids asked doo wai to stop calling what he does bak mei... could that be where the ermei comes in??? again, it looks bad, like he straight up made it up...

can anyone fill in these major gaps with info that isnt from doo wai or a doo wai student??? something perhaps atleast somewhat maybe i hope a little bit more objective? laced with some reason logic and with a bit less "it is what it is coz doo wai says it is"... i wanted to give him the benefit of doubt, i didnt walk into this a doo wai hater... but i have to admit that the inconsistancies are so many that for me it is absolutely unprecedented... can yall gimme something? anything? are we to believe that doo wais line produced one male and no female for generations thus creating a vacuum of information and witnesses... like wheres the lil cousin comming to his rescue? even in his hometown people arent talking... whats the deal bfp people??? help me out here...


and so if we look at this from the perspective of an investigator or a lawyer.. when a witness is on the stand, one doesnt need to discredit everything they say, just enough to give reasonable doubt as to the authenticity of anything they say... so even if doo wai has a legit style, his shadyness in other ways casts serious doubt to anything that comes out of his mouth... anyone have anything to add???

[TAO YIN]

Syn7,

I am all about looking at this objectively. Not because of so and so and so and so. All of those questions that you ask are good questions. Sadly, all are with no answers because no one knows. I doubt if anyone even knows this dude's hometown. I can make a very educated guess, but I do not know his cousins. Who was it who talked him out of calling it Bak Mei? Was that a phone call or a letter? He called it Bak Fu back in the seventies didn't he?

Here is the way I look at it. If he made it up...Not bad! Who cares? Everything is made up anyways. I have seen some of his older stuff. Have to have, bought some tapes like 15 years ago. Not bad! Good forms, good two man stuff. Different to Bak Mei. More continuous. Softer. Nice iron palm material, iron body material. Different to it simply being embedded into the forms and power generation like what most Bak Mei people have said.

If he made it up, all of what he is talking about, well, he put some good thought into it.

We can get into the ethics of making things up, but, well I guess they are made up?

[taai gihk yahn]

Syn7,

I am all about looking at this objectively. Not because of so and so and so and so. All of those questions that you ask are good questions. Sadly, all are with no answers because no one knows. I doubt if anyone even knows this dude's hometown. I can make a very educated guess, but I do not know his cousins. Who was it who talked him out of calling it Bak Mei? Was that a phone call or a letter? He called it Bak Fu back in the seventies didn't he?

Here is the way I look at it. If he made it up...Not bad! Who cares? Everything is made up anyways. I have seen some of his older stuff. Have to have, bought some tapes like 15 years ago. Not bad! Good forms, good two man stuff. Different to Bak Mei. More continuous. Softer. Nice iron palm material, iron body material. Different to it simply being embedded into the forms and power generation like what most Bak Mei people have said.

If he made it up, all of what he is talking about, well, he put some good thought into it.

We can get into the ethics of making things up, but, well I guess they are made up?
the "issue" w/making things up is that it is fine, but then it stands to credibility: if u make-up a system, then people can more pointedly ask u about ur background in terms of actual usage - I can "make up" anything I want, but if I can't substantiate the rationale for it or demonstrate efficacy, people can b like, "so what"
HOWEVER, if I am the sole inheritor of a 5,000,000 y/o style, then guess what? in many if not most people's minds, I now get an instant credibility "get out of jail free" card; meaning that I don't have to substantiate content of the system, because, hey, I am the recipient / guardian / protector of "the system", carrying it on exactly as my great-great-great-great to the nth degree grandsifu intended when he chiseled it into the living rock in a cave on Mount Mysterious - in fact, if your common sense and logic doesn't support a lot of what I do, then I just fall back into the whole :it's an ancient hoary secret practice that your rational / western mind can't grasp"; and most people will balk at that and just carry on;
so if Doo Wai just played it straight and was upfront about his background, which is probably a mix of different things he picked up over the years (incuding bok mei or similar system), and probably some of it actually valid - I mean Dale Dugas speaks well of the man's healing skills, if I recall correctly, not wanting to misquote him, so that suggests at least some merit to what he does; but if he's clever, which he is, he isn't going to broke on that, especially being in Hollywood, where his famous actor clients want even more desperately and feel entitled to having only "special" people work with them (I know, I've treated a few famous actors, they all had the same perspective about this), so he has his 700 y/o BFP lineage (which he can't produce, substantiate, verify, etc.) and all the trappings as a vehice to support the material he teaches;
so go ahead, create, CREATE - but be honest and if u r not honest at least don't b ridiculous...

[Faruq]

"FuMei
10-29-2000, 10:00 AM
The lineage of Pak Mei is probably not what you think it is iron lohan. First off it does not stop and start only with clc, instead it thrives in many directions. Pak Mei went to the O'Mei Shuan Jee with Fung Do Duk, so it is probable that both Pak Mei and Fung Do Duk taught there gung fu to the Kwong Wai Monk. It was not until after Fung Do Duk left this temple that he lived with Doo Tin Yin. The monk Kwong Wai passed all of his knowledge to Fah Yuen who was Cheung Lai Chen's sifu. Fah Yuen also taught Ling Sing and this is where the differences occur.
The Kwong Wai monk taught Fah Yuen these "so called" five kuens of Pak Mei? He could have taught him many more. The five kuens that Pak Mei taught the Kwong Wai monk where probably five kuens that he and Fung Do Duk came up with to be the most important combining everything from the 8 powers, to the six gings, to the five elements. clc pak mei does not teach only these five kuens, they have about 24 different kuens, some with weapons. I have seen some chow fook (not the same choy fok as choy lay fut) lineages that trace to Ling Sing that have thirteen kuens. When dealing with pak mei you can not look at it as just linear, circular, or triangular in nature or you are not dealing with the 8 different Taoist powers. Old-School pak mei is something more flowing, it is flowing softly until the time to be hard. It does not have to be flowing in a linear, circular, or triangular fashion. It has to use all three with ging. Guard centerline hard, everything will turn out fine when you decide to use your ging. It is everything that lies in nature that we just do not see. This is the same truth in Bak Fu Pai. Fung Do Duk was Pak Mei's elder and he hightened his art to something more devastating than Pak Mei, nis art flowed even more with the waters and the winds, the nature of this art is on the brink of scary! I have heard that some of Fung Do Duk's teachings of Bak Fu Pai where the same as Pak Mei's five kuens. Not until later though did Fung Do Duk teach diligent students even more advanced material than these five cherished kuens. I have heard that Doo Tin Yin's first son taught the original 5 as a basis for his Bak Fu Pai and this is Fukien Pak Mei which has these 5 pak mei forms with 5 bak fu pai forms. This does not seem like that many kuens but in the old days masters where not worried about how many kuens they had instead they had a dozen great kuens that were practiced because the masters knew they worked. These kuens are what real souther gung fu is about. It is about the basic Mo Sheung Dit Ga Sow ( Daoist Mountain Monk Removing Robe, or Monk Disrobing) Tiat Arhat. HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!!! :cool"


"FuMei
10-30-2000, 01:44 AM
Hello Mo Q:

Forgive me if my spelling is a little weird on some gung fu terms, I try to put it as I heard it while studing. Cheung Lai Chuen learned Pak Mei, Bak Mei, Bai Mei, from the Kwong Wai Jee monk Jok Fah Yuen. Fah Yuen learned from Kwong Wai. It would be impossible for clc to have learned from Kwong Wai because Kwong Wai would have been dead before Cheung Lai Chuen was born. Fah Yuen was the successor at Kwong Wai on Er Mei San, O Mei Shuan, etc. HAHA!! Jok Fah Yuen taught Ling Sang and Cheung Lai Chuen. Ling Sang taught Lee Mon and Lam Shek, and this is where the differences come from. Both Lee Mon and Lam Shek taught many people gung fu because they were some of the main triads the government was after. There would also be differences taught from Ng Nam Kung who was one of the three successors to Cheung Lai Chuens Pak Mei.

So all these differences show differences in style that are striving for a certain purpose, defend until time to attack and possibly kill.

On reply to the many terms related to Bak Fu Pai, Bai Fu Pai, Pak Fu Pai, mainly the story of Doo Tin Yin's son, these are stories that are passed down in the Fukien Bai Fu Pai lineage. I heard this from my father in-law who is from Fukien. He studied Pak Mei and Bai Fu Pai from birth because a great uncle of his was a cousin of the Monk Jok Fah Yuen. This bai fu pai was transmitted to the monk Jok Fah Yuen from the Kwong Wai monk but does not have as many kuens as Master Doo Wai's family inherited Bak Fu Pai. Hopefully, this helps out, later we can discuss a few kuens.

Fu /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif"

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-865.html

[Syn7]

don't b ridiculous...

"dont be rediculous!!!" - Balki Bartokamous

[taai gihk yahn]

"dont be rediculous!!!" - Balki Bartokamous

now we r so happy, we will do the Dance of Joy!