Kung Lik

[Yum Cha]

What is Kung Lik (lek)? "kung" power/force. Training Power? The Power of Practice?

Is it the same for all arts?

to me, it is the power you generate when you get complete body coordination into a technique, and the more perfect the execution, the higher the Kung Lik...

Individuals generally have a level of Kung Lik that is evident in their activities.

It might be interpreted as having iron forearms, or heavy handed striking, or even 'presence'. I think there is probably some relationship between the concept and what we often call 'internal power.' I tend to like to think of it as 'core' power.

Is this anywhere in line with traditional interpretations of the term?

[TenTigers]

I was taught it was connection-a combination of alignment, coordination, and rooting, and relaxation, breath, and focusing on dan-tien.

[SPJ]

gong li 功力

it depends on the style

--

in tai chi, you want to practice reeling power or chan si gong.

methods in the generation, transfer or relay, and expression of power required for the techniques to work.

it can be pushing, pulling, ---

so it is whole body movement and work.

and of course, conditioning of palms, forearm and certain body parts are required for iron palm, --- etc to work

[YouKnowWho]

In SC, it's the ability that you have obtained from your equipment training.

If you have

- hanged on the tree/pole for 20 years, your head locking and leg twisting Kung Li will be higher that those who has done for 10 years.
- twisted on the cane bundle for 20 years, your fingers grabbing Kung Li will be higher that those who has done for 10 years.
- pulled the weight pulley for 20 years, your pulling Kung Li will be higher that those who has done for 10 years.
- twisted the Gon for 20 years, your arms twisting Kung Li will be higher that those who has done for 10 years.
- worked on the stone lock for 20 years, your grip lifting Kung Li will be higher that those who has done for 10 years.

IMO, Kung Li = time invested in "certain" training.

Here the word "certain" is important. You may have Kung Li in one area but that doesn't mean you have Kung Li in another area. For example, you may have pulling Kung Li but you may not have pushing Kung Li.

[David Jamieson]

well, it was me for a while, and then I decided to just go with my name.


anyway, kung lek is strength development. it is literally power generation.
As an idea , it's about getting stronger.

[Yum Cha]

well, it was me for a while, and then I decided to just go with my name.


anyway, kung lek is strength development. it is literally power generation.
As an idea , it's about getting stronger.


I remember 'kung lek'.

I think its more than simply power, i.e. power will get a gymnast through a tumbling run, but kung lik will get them through with a perfect score...

Kung lik isn't always about power, you know, water and stone, all that....you have to add a coordination angle to it...

Maybe even finesse?

[YouKnowWho]

May be the easiest way to define Kung Li is something that you can't get from partner training. In CMA, the 1st 50% is technique that you train in school with your partner. The 2nd 50% is Kung Li that you train at home by yourself.

[Yum Cha]

May be the easiest way to define Kung Li is something that you can't get from partner training. In CMA, the 1st 50% is technique that you train in school with your partner. The 2nd 50% is Kung Li that you train at home by yourself.

Thank You....

I was wondering if anybody else was making this connection...

Thus, something that might be developed via forms training, to some contributing extent?

[YouKnowWho]

Thus, something that might be developed via forms training, to some contributing extent?

Some system may treat solo form training as Gong Li training. Some system may treat solo form training as 2 men drills without partner and treat as skill training. Some system even treat Qi development as Gong Li training. It all depends on different definition of Gong Li.

[David Jamieson]

It is also interpreted as foundational training.
Is this what your point is YKW?

[YouKnowWho]

It is also interpreted as foundational training.
Is this what your point is YKW?

The "foundation training" is a good definition. But I think it should go beyound "foundation". I stilll have a huge rock next to my drive way. When I was young, I like to spend 3 months before my tournament to move that rock from point A to point B and then back. When I competed my tournament, I knew I was the strongest guy in the whole tournament because I didn't believe anyone else would be stupid enough to go through those kind of boring training.

Maybe a better definition should be, "A special training that can achieve certain special purpose".

[Northwind]

Oh boy. I thought you guys were referring to the form by this name...:P To be honest, I am not a big fan of the form, however I do understand its "importance". I offer it to my students as an auxiliary form, but feel that theoretical gong li should be imparted with or without the form anyway.

[David Jamieson]

Oh boy. I thought you guys were referring to the form by this name...:P To be honest, I am not a big fan of the form, however I do understand its "importance". I offer it to my students as an auxiliary form, but feel that theoretical gong li should be imparted with or without the form anyway.

my understanding is that there are several forms that have this name.

so far i've seen a preying mantis one, an eagle claw one and a shaolin one and they are all totally different from each other.

In one of the styles of black tiger I practice there is a form called Hark Fu Gong Lik Kuen.

This form is more like a mix of black tiger + gung gee + tid sen. It's long with much in the way of isotonic and isometric work and more than half of it is done stationary in sei ping dai ma. It's very long as well.

Of all the versions, I"m biased, but I do like the black tiger version better than the rest. The others look like basic stances, strikes and kicks sets. But the black tiger one is anything but a basics set.

[Northwind]

Wow David - I knew there were different flavors of the form - but I didn't know there were completely different forms by the same name...(Well now that I think about it - it's fairly common I guess - like our Moi Fah/MeiHua in Northern Shaolin - there's like a gazillion of plum flowers across TCMA :P)

Regardless - I'd love it if you could point me to some (perhaps youtubers) clips of the varieties. I've only ever known the basic one where you do the two fists stuff at the beginning (does that make sense? If not i'll explain more but I'm guessing you know what I mean)...

[YouKnowWho]

I've only ever known the basic one where you do the two fists stuff at the beginning (does that make sense? If not i'll explain more but I'm guessing you know what I mean)...

I think you are talking about Kung Li Chuan from the Kung Li system. The Kung Li system is an independent system which has nothing to do with Longfist, Mantis, or Eagle Claw. Since both the Central Koushou Kwoon and Ginwoo system used this form as the beginner level training form. It got spread out widely in both China and southeast Asia.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1554/kungli1.jpg
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/795/kungli2.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs8yj1iXWXE

This is the more advance form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZovvU7pG-kM

[Northwind]

Hmmm...

Interesting. The one I know is mostly like the first youtube clip, but there are some areas in the form that incorporate movements from the second clip. Now I am a lil confused :P

[David Jamieson]

Hmmm...

Interesting. The one I know is mostly like the first youtube clip, but there are some areas in the form that incorporate movements from the second clip. Now I am a lil confused :P

check this one out, it's interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZovvU7pG-kM

good ol dpgdpg :)

This is the Fu style of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfLolyMR2Iw

random of the ching wu version that is indeed really widespread in it's practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EExlSHLzJ8

gotta run for the moment. maybe dig up a couple of others. :)

[David Jamieson]

here's another one, but I'm not entirely certain it doesn't belong to the style that John is talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUB9yQxx4hw

[Northwind]

Hey David,

That first one I think you posted earlier.
The second one - Fu Style - is interesting - most of what I saw there actually reminds me of some Tan Tui.
The third one (Chin Woo) I've seen all over the place - it's similar to what I know - but definitely a different feel.
That last one's very interesting - like a yangjia taijiquan + qigong + chang quan = gong li quan :P