Engagement strategy

[Yum Cha]

Talking about strategy and fighting is bloody impossible, because when its on, its on, and training is what you rely on. More or less... Strategy happens a lot more getting into and out of the battle.

Making the engagement, however, is something that can be managed strategically to an advantage.

Some common techniques are: Straight Blast, attack-the-attack, Sucker in, High-Low (low-high). Anybody care to add to that list?


Crossing from out-of-range, across kicking, punching and clinching/trapping/grappling ranges. Of course, its horses for courses, but anybody have any groovy tricks or techniques?


I like to move laterally, and change shape constantly, i.e. leg forward, hand forward, not any 'woo woo' funny kung fu stance stuff, looks more like walking...I try not to bounce.

I like to get a hold (bridge) on a hand, or step on a foot....

Even back in boxing, I always circled, I still circle to the outside of the leading hand.

I guess at the same time, you have to consider your reactions to the Straight Blast, or other classic attacks.


Domination and Crease are terms from the Hagakure (I believe). Samuri talk about the phase where you look into your opponent's eyes until eventually, the brow creases and there is an attack. Then, the cut is done, and heaven has its way.

[Shaolin]

I used these same techniques to propose to my first wife. Yes sir, engagements require a solid strategy or it could bloody.

[YouKnowWho]

Even back in boxing, I always circled, I still circle to the outside of the leading hand.
That's a very important concept, to use your opponent's leading arm to jam his back arm. It will be even nicer if you can switch back and force between side door entering and front door entering

I like to sweep my opponent's leading leg when I enter. The purpose is not trying to sweep my opponent down but to force him to pay attention on my sweep so he may forget about kicking me when I enter. IMO, it's always good idea to put my opponent in defensive mode.

[SPJ]

A. in ba gua and tai chi

it is prefered or safer to engage the opponent from the outside

unless your are stronger and faster than the opponent.

B. in tong bei

1. you may start with top down strike on the face or head

you then move to the mid abdomen or zhong quan.

2. you may also do circling hands or quan shou to move away the opponent's defending arms then strike the face/chest/rib or throw, it is called splitting and breaking the door. lie men, and po men.

3. of course, you may also tiao----

[Yum Cha]

I used these same techniques to propose to my first wife. Yes sir, engagements require a solid strategy or it could bloody.


Combination of Ring craft and knee techniques?

[Frost]

Talking about strategy and fighting is bloody impossible, because when its on, its on, and training is what you rely on. More or less... Strategy happens a lot more getting into and out of the battle.

Making the engagement, however, is something that can be managed strategically to an advantage.

Some common techniques are: Straight Blast, attack-the-attack, Sucker in, High-Low (low-high). Anybody care to add to that list?


Crossing from out-of-range, across kicking, punching and clinching/trapping/grappling ranges. Of course, its horses for courses, but anybody have any groovy tricks or techniques?


I like to move laterally, and change shape constantly, i.e. leg forward, hand forward, not any 'woo woo' funny kung fu stance stuff, looks more like walking...I try not to bounce.

I like to get a hold (bridge) on a hand, or step on a foot....

Even back in boxing, I always circled, I still circle to the outside of the leading hand.

I guess at the same time, you have to consider your reactions to the Straight Blast, or other classic attacks.


Domination and Crease are terms from the Hagakure (I believe). Samuri talk about the phase where you look into your opponent's eyes until eventually, the brow creases and there is an attack. Then, the cut is done, and heaven has its way.

if i am keeping the fight at dstance i use lateral footwork and hard straight punches and kicks to keep the opponent at distance, if i ant to close the distance to grappling i either cover and crash (using crazey monkey) or strike high to bring their hands up and come in low for a body lock

[David Jamieson]

I like to put the ring at the bottom of a champagne glass.

If you put it in the cake, it's possible she might eat it.
That could be bad!

:p

[Yum Cha]

if i am keeping the fight at dstance i use lateral footwork and hard straight punches and kicks to keep the opponent at distance, if i ant to close the distance to grappling i either cover and crash (using crazey monkey) or strike high to bring their hands up and come in low for a body lock

Straight Blast
Attack-the-attack
Sucker in
High-Low (low-high)
Cover and crash

Ok, WTF is 'Crazy Monkey", I really want to add it to the list!

I think lateral footwork is the single greatest lesson a young fighter can learn. Sets them in the top 10%. (of the gen public)

[Yum Cha]

A. in ba gua and tai chi

it is prefered or safer to engage the opponent from the outside

unless your are stronger and faster than the opponent.


I absolutely agree, to move to the side door and attack whenever possible.



B. in tong bei

1. you may start with top down strike on the face or head

you then move to the mid abdomen or zhong quan.

2. you may also do circling hands or quan shou to move away the opponent's defending arms then strike the face/chest/rib or throw, it is called splitting and breaking the door. lie men, and po men.

3. of course, you may also tiao----

This seems to be what you do once you cross the ranges, once you have contact with the opponent. Ba Qua is noted for walking the circle, and spiralling in... What footwork and approach does Tong Bei use to cover the distance, bridge, slip, or whatever, to get into striking exchange? Circling Hands seems to apply, its kind of a 'slipping' way to penetrate from my experience.

1. sounds like a 'high-low' attack
2. circling hands - do you cross the distance with the hands pre-emptively moving, until you make the contact, or do your bridge and than circle hands to penetrate?

3. Tiao?

--------------------------------

1. Straight Blast
2. Attack-the-attack
3. Sucker in
4. High-Low (low-high)
5. Cover and crash
6. Circling Hands

[Yum Cha]

I like to put the ring at the bottom of a champagne glass.

If you put it in the cake, it's possible she might eat it.
That could be bad!

:p

Seems like you've got a bit of experience in this field....

[PalmStriker]

Cracked Molar is definitely bad Ring Strategy.

[SPJ]

.

1. sounds like a 'high-low' attack
2. circling hands - do you cross the distance with the hands pre-emptively moving, until you make the contact, or do your bridge and than circle hands to penetrate?

3. Tiao?

--------------------------------

1. Straight Blast
2. Attack-the-attack
3. Sucker in
4. High-Low (low-high)
5. Cover and crash
6. Circling Hands

tiao is to move your hand upward with bent elbow in turn. your wrist and forearm may move away the opponent's arms laterally and slightly upward.

circling hands may be coupled with other moves to get close.

[SPJ]

to add to the list

7. (horse) testing palm or tang ma zhang exists in many styles with variations

you move forward your arms in turn at high level. you may assume horizontal (palm side down) or vertical palm (palm side facing left or right)

you do 3 to 6 times in a row, left right left--

you invite the opponent to defend, you follow with your other moves.

you may also use this as defense, to distance the opponent's arms to your outside.

----

[bawang]

1. make angry face
2. curl hands into someting magical called a "fist"
3. put fist on face
4. make manly pose
5. lift weights and b trong

[goju]

i always liked to use leg kicks alot to set up everything and circle away from the power hand

[Yum Cha]

1. Straight Blast
2. Attack-the-attack
3. Sucker in
4. High-Low (low-high)
5. Cover and crash
6. Circling Hands (pre-emptive aggressive defense)
7. Leg kicks (limb destruction?)
8. Make angry face, beat self around head with your own fists, strip to dacks and pull twin bicept flex. Drop your dacks...

[Yum Cha]

to add to the list

7. (horse) testing palm or tang ma zhang exists in many styles with variations

you move forward your arms in turn at high level. you may assume horizontal (palm side down) or vertical palm (palm side facing left or right)

you do 3 to 6 times in a row, left right left--

you invite the opponent to defend, you follow with your other moves.

you may also use this as defense, to distance the opponent's arms to your outside.

----

Hi SPJ,
I know the types of techniques you are referring to, and they can indeed work well, but I think I'm looking at more general concepts of strategy, as opposed to strategic techniques, if you catch my drift.

Think of it as a concept you could use equally , if you were a boxer, wrestler, karateka or Kung Fu player.... Maybe even a fencer, or a platoon of soldiers...

[YouKnowWho]

B. in tong bei

1. you may start with top down strike on the face or head

you then move to the mid abdomen or zhong quan.
I think you are talking about move like this. Can it be a good entering strategy? Longfist has a similiar move like this. It starts with a kick. When your opponent blocks your kick, you then move in with a hammer fist (or vertical palm) on top of your oponent's head. The problem is no matter how fast your hammer fist (or vertical palm), your opponent's XingYi Pao Chuan will always be faster than you. This just make me think that hammer fist (or vertical palm) may be too slow to be used in offensive move. It may work better in defense and counter instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hI6OJpVzi8

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hI6OJpVzi8

there are 3 series of practice in the video.

1. tiao/gua then pi, you practice with hitting thigh and frictioning or rubbing with the other hand. thus the sounds.

the raising forearm, if you move forward, it is tiao, if you move backward, it is gua.

2. pi followed by shuai (throwing palm or backhand strike)

3. pi, shuai, double pi (one hand after the other)

[SPJ]

Longfist has a similiar move like this. It starts with a kick. When your opponent blocks your kick, you then move in with a hammer fist (or vertical palm) on top of your oponent's head. The problem is no matter how fast your hammer fist (or vertical palm), your opponent's XingYi Pao Chuan will always be faster than you. This just make me think that hammer fist (or vertical palm) may be too slow to be used in offensive move. It may work better in defense and counter instead.



yes. timing is critical, in practice we may do 1-2-3

in actual fight, it is 1+2+3 almost at the same time.

but you let the opponent see your leg first, and your backhand fist (fan za) or hammer fist (chui) coming out of covering/hiding from the other hand.

for example;

1. right leg out /snap kick. stomping kick tan tui or deng tui/jiao.

2. left hand with open palm to push forward and downward and move down any defending arms

3. right back fist or hammer fist coming out after left hand moving forward and down ward.

in tai chi, it is called ban lan chui moving/intercepting fist. left hand is moving or intercepting the opponent's defending arms, and right hand is the chui.

in other styles, they are called reverse/flipping downward hitting or fan za

if pao chui is hitting your open mid gate. your left hand would be doing a lateral intercepting or lan, while you use your side to face the opponent, thus dodge the pao chui and still deliver the right hand fist to the face/nose, or top of the head.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I used this particular move to start off all my fights, it makes a clear statement !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_r-TTObKc

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The greatest engagement attack ever!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynsuaBPDFvo

On a side note, every time I see Bawang post I think of this scene, I wonder why?:p

[jo]

Making the engagement, however, is something that can be managed strategically to an advantage.


Make sure you go to Jared® the Galleria of Jewelry. :D

-jo

[Yum Cha]

I used this particular move to start off all my fights, it makes a clear statement !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_r-TTObKc


Sorry Bwang already claimed that one....

[Yum Cha]

The greatest engagement attack ever!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynsuaBPDFvo

On a side note, every time I see Bawang post I think of this scene, I wonder why?:p

Goes to show it works, I suppose...

[PalmStriker]

And then there's Slap-Face Crazy Attack, Mel Gibson Style.:D

[YouKnowWho]

1. right leg out /snap kick. stomping kick tan tui or deng tui/jiao.

2. left hand with open palm to push forward and downward and move down any defending arms

3. right back fist or hammer fist coming out after left hand moving forward and down ward.

in tai chi, it is called ban lan chui moving/intercepting fist. left hand is moving or intercepting the opponent's defending arms, and right hand is the chui.

I have some concern on the 2nd move here. Your back left hand may be too far from your opponent's defending arm. It's better to "bait" your opponent's defending arm to come to you than for you to go to hiim (as you have said - invite the opponent to defend). In order to do that a right arm offensive move will be very helpful. The Taiji ban lan chui also use the right hand to contact your opponent's right arm, your left hand then takes it over.


tiao is to move your hand upward with bent elbow in turn. your wrist and forearm may move away the opponent's arms laterally and slightly upward.
It's the same as "upper cut". The difference is when you think about "upper cut" instead of "Tiao", you are thinking more offensively - invite the opponent to defend.

The SC system likes to use "butterfly hands" to enter. You can deflect your opponent

- both arms from inside out.
- both arms from outside in.
- left arm from inside out and right arm from outside in.
- right arm from inside out and left arm from outside in.