Fighting not the answer

[Minghequan]

If there is one aspect or specific area that I am trying to improve upon and impart to our members and students then it would be the philosophical side of our White Crane Boxing or Gongfu.

I personally feel that there are a plethora of systems “out there” that are only concerned with the concept of winning or worse yet, ‘kill, kill, kill” at all cost type of martial arts. Such approaches fail to take into consideration the moral, ethical and yes legal circumstances of defending oneself from possible attack.

They teach to strike first and to go for the throat, no mercy, keep on going until the opponent can no longer stand, continue or live, Kick “em” while their down and don’t stop until they are severely injured or dead!

What message do these arts give to their members or to society at large? Is this the right message to be imparting? Many in society and yes our communities see violence as something glamorous and empowering.

Its in our media and on our streets everyday. But should it be this way. Glorifying violence is not the way forward and winning over another often for the sake of the self-ego means that there is something fundamentally wrong within such a individual as a person.

A real fight is a terrifying thing, based on behavior. As humans, we all interact and react sadly most on a violent level. Real fights are behaviorally driven and behavior is learned and therefore can be changed.

Pre-emption strikes can be used when a threat arises but are not always the best path to go down. De-escalation of the situation through verbal and body actions should be encouraged before going down a path which is often hard to return from.

Ethically, morally and legally Its more advantageous to de-escalate a confrontation and avoid fighting if at all possible. Applying no attempt to defuse the possibility of a violent situation will raise the person’s guard, make him/her prepare themselves for a fight on a physiological level that may lead to and act of violence. And even if you win such a confrontation what have you really won? What about retribution against you or worse, your family?

It just may be that the person has had a bad day and who out of us hasn’t had one? There is enough darkness and despair in this world without us within the martial arts contributing to it.

The basic rules of Self Defence are avoidance, escape, de-escalation, and only if that does not work, then finally fight to escape. Its more often than not ego that calls out to defend honour that probably doesn't need defending.

What worries me is the trend towards fighting for glory, ego and trophies. What I am seeing is a ever increasing group of angry people (young and old) walking around, some with weapons just waiting to get into a fight to satisfy their own short-comings as people, ready to lash out at anyone who approaches them or who in their minds has done something towards their egos. This is a very, very unhealthy and dangerous attitude to instill in people.

This is what the true martial arts are against. Such a bad attitude and loss of personal self-belief flies in the face of what the martial arts are truly all about. The arts should instill confidence and provide the person with the tools to avoid violence at all costs. They should plant the seed of personal self-growth within the individual that they can then take with them through life. This then is what our White Crane Martial Arts hopes to do for those who choose to study it. Making good people, better is our aim.

[YouKnowWho]

When you

- are as rich as Bill Gates, you can then say "money is not important".
- are 100 years old, you can then say, "I have lived long enough".
- have WMD, you can then talk about "world peace".

There is big difference between "can't do" and "won't do". Without martial ability, Wude is just empty words.

[Frost]

If there is one aspect or specific area that I am trying to improve upon and impart to our members and students then it would be the philosophical side of our White Crane Boxing or Gongfu.

I personally feel that there are a plethora of systems “out there” that are only concerned with the concept of winning or worse yet, ‘kill, kill, kill” at all cost type of martial arts. Such approaches fail to take into consideration the moral, ethical and yes legal circumstances of defending oneself from possible attack.

They teach to strike first and to go for the throat, no mercy, keep on going until the opponent can no longer stand, continue or live, Kick “em” while their down and don’t stop until they are severely injured or dead!

What message do these arts give to their members or to society at large? Is this the right message to be imparting? Many in society and yes our communities see violence as something glamorous and empowering.

Its in our media and on our streets everyday. But should it be this way. Glorifying violence is not the way forward and winning over another often for the sake of the self-ego means that there is something fundamentally wrong within such a individual as a person.

A real fight is a terrifying thing, based on behavior. As humans, we all interact and react sadly most on a violent level. Real fights are behaviorally driven and behavior is learned and therefore can be changed.

Pre-emption strikes can be used when a threat arises but are not always the best path to go down. De-escalation of the situation through verbal and body actions should be encouraged before going down a path which is often hard to return from.

Ethically, morally and legally Its more advantageous to de-escalate a confrontation and avoid fighting if at all possible. Applying no attempt to defuse the possibility of a violent situation will raise the person’s guard, make him/her prepare themselves for a fight on a physiological level that may lead to and act of violence. And even if you win such a confrontation what have you really won? What about retribution against you or worse, your family?

It just may be that the person has had a bad day and who out of us hasn’t had one? There is enough darkness and despair in this world without us within the martial arts contributing to it.

The basic rules of Self Defence are avoidance, escape, de-escalation, and only if that does not work, then finally fight to escape. Its more often than not ego that calls out to defend honour that probably doesn't need defending.

What worries me is the trend towards fighting for glory, ego and trophies. What I am seeing is a ever increasing group of angry people (young and old) walking around, some with weapons just waiting to get into a fight to satisfy their own short-comings as people, ready to lash out at anyone who approaches them or who in their minds has done something towards their egos. This is a very, very unhealthy and dangerous attitude to instill in people.

This is what the true martial arts are against. Such a bad attitude and loss of personal self-belief flies in the face of what the martial arts are truly all about. The arts should instill confidence and provide the person with the tools to avoid violence at all costs. They should plant the seed of personal self-growth within the individual that they can then take with them through life. This then is what our White Crane Martial Arts hopes to do for those who choose to study it. Making good people, better is our aim.

fighting may not be the answer but saying martial arts were developed for anything other than killing the opponent is to re-write history and gloss over its past.

Why you train, and why the arts were invented are two totally DIFFERENT things

[RenDaHai]

There is a big difference between 'kung fu' and 'wushu'.

Wushu means the martial arts and yes it is just about combat.

But gong fu is something more. And historically it was never intended as combat. China has always had both wushu and 'gong'. To call a pure fighting art 'kung fu' is completely wrong. Kung fu is closer in meaning to Yoga. Wushu and kung fu happen to go together well because Wushu trains the body. Also there is an ultimate irony involved, in order to perfect your understanding of your higher nature you must confront the most primitive parts of yourself, those that reside in combat.

An old kung fu maxim is 'lian wu bu lian gong, dao lao jiu shi kong' or something like that, it means to learn wushu without 'gong' is to waste your life.

I agree with Minghequan. In lots of MA i see this attitude of 'an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth' or even worse. This attitude was primitive 2000 years ago. Its not the way of someone who practices gong fu.

The nature of Gong Fu is what really seperates traditional MA from their modern counterparts. Although modern MA may be more effective combat training in many cases they are lacking in the spiritual domain.

[David Jamieson]

I think people will struggle with understanding what ron is saying here.
I agree with it in it's wholeness of content.

[lkfmdc]

fighting is not the answer

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LI20iydaNdc/SmqJI2fht_I/AAAAAAAABJ0/D8HAva6XYX4/s400/crying-baby-272x300.jpg

[David Jamieson]

fighting is not the answer

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lNDPXjJ98ao/S4Z-sH6-aWI/AAAAAAAAAi0/EOIkggnS1b4/s400/P1600979.jpg


:D

seriously...

[lkfmdc]

Well jamieson, I guess there is no crime in Canada so you'll never have to face someone who wants to hurt you and that you'll have to defend yourself, right? :rolleyes:

I mean, MARTIAL arts arent' about fighting, no one in China ever used them to fight, and we should all just go eat granola and concentrate on our navels now :cool:

[David Jamieson]

Well jamieson, I guess there is no crime in Canada so you'll never have to face someone who wants to hurt you and that you'll have to defend yourself, right? :rolleyes:

I mean, MARTIAL arts arent' about fighting, no one in China ever used them to fight, and we should all just go eat granola and concentrate on our navels now :cool:

NOt actually no.
But I don't think martial arts training will save you from crime and I don't think it wil help you defend yourself in context to modern criminals who will just shoot your ass or stab it or beat it with a bat or whatever.

some desparate hungry fool trying to steal a purse? Yeah, that guy get's a stomp, but a dude in a darth vader suit carrying a little magnum bulldog semi auto chunk?

yeah, the world of martial arts will do nothing there.

I think that in this day and age, H2H falls way short of what the world is gonna throw at you.

If you like to train to fight, that's cool, but don't kid yourself about thinking it will do anything for you in a situation where you actually need to protect yourself from a criminal filled with violent intention and better equipped than you to carry it out.

Get a gun, learn to use it and you will have increased your chances of self defense by 1000% over any and all martial arts clubs out there.

:)

[hskwarrior]

it would be the philosophical side of our White Crane Boxing or Gongfu.

I personally feel that there are a plethora of systems “out there” that are only concerned with the concept of winning or worse yet, ‘kill, kill, kill” at all cost type of martial arts. Such approaches fail to take into consideration the moral, ethical and yes legal circumstances of defending oneself from possible attack.

They teach to strike first and to go for the throat, no mercy, keep on going until the opponent can no longer stand, continue or live, Kick “em” while their down and don’t stop until they are severely injured or dead!

What message do these arts give to their members or to society at large? Is this the right message to be imparting? Many in society and yes our communities see violence as something glamorous and empowering.

it's my personal opinion that THIS....THE ABOVE is whats wrong with TCMA today. It's like "Why join the army if you're opposed to war?"

let's see...

Talk your way out: After the aggressor pounds you into the floor or during?

Run Away: This will only escalate the situation, especially if the aggressor had homeboys. or.....you get shot in the back as you run away.


And even if you win such a confrontation what have you really won? What about retribution against you or worse, your family?

My sifu used to say "whether you win or lose you still lost cause the aggressor got what he wanted out of you. it's smart not to instigate the fight, but you should never back down from one.

my question is to the De-escalator's, the talk-em downs, the runners......the pacifists....WHAT DO YOU WHEN SAID AGGRESSOR'S FIST MAKES A CONNECTION WITH YOUR FACE and he doesn't stop although you are asking him nicely to do so?

Again....De-escalators, talk-em downs, the body languagers, WHY DID YOU TAKE UP LEARNING THE ART OF WAR if you don't plan to utilize it for what it's designed for?

[David Jamieson]

In all fairness Frank, there are so many variables that anything that is posted there is as valid as your counter situations.

why learn to read and write if you aren't going to produce a novel?
why learn to drive a car if you aren't going to be a racer?

martial arts and in context to asian martial arts and some of the philosophies that are not only extrinsic but intrinsic to some of them does indeed present the idea of eternally present dichotomy in all things even war. and any of it's methods.

for every attack, there is a counter.

[JamesC]

NOt actually no.
But I don't think martial arts training will save you from crime and I don't think it wil help you defend yourself in context to modern criminals who will just shoot your ass or stab it or beat it with a bat or whatever.

some desparate hungry fool trying to steal a purse? Yeah, that guy get's a stomp, but a dude in a darth vader suit carrying a little magnum bulldog semi auto chunk?

yeah, the world of martial arts will do nothing there.

I think that in this day and age, H2H falls way short of what the world is gonna throw at you.

If you like to train to fight, that's cool, but don't kid yourself about thinking it will do anything for you in a situation where you actually need to protect yourself from a criminal filled with violent intention and better equipped than you to carry it out.

Get a gun, learn to use it and you will have increased your chances of self defense by 1000% over any and all martial arts clubs out there.

:)


This.

Also, it really isn't that hard to stay out of trouble. Common sense can keep you from having any problems most of the time.

However, there's always a chance you'll draw that short straw and find yourself in a dangerous situation.

If possible, beat their ass. If not, shoot them instead. You guys can do what you want, but i'm not going to be the idiot that brings only his fists to a gunfight.

[hskwarrior]

then i guess thats the eternal struggle then.....

The esoteric side of martial arts are for the Hippies....in my opinion. I guess so was anti-war too for a a while huh? hahaha

For every attack there is a counter attack? so when the person hits you, you take it out on the cement by hitting it pretty hard?

it's just my personal opinion really, its like if you don't want to fight, take up kick ball, bowling, Bocci Ball, or join discussion groups.

Martial arts is about training for war. fighting. hence all of the punching, kicking, maiming, and so forth. i have yet to meet a teacher of martial arts who is worried whether he is being tooo rough on an aggressor or not.

ITS JUST MY OPINION


why learn to read and write if you aren't going to produce a novel?
why learn to drive a car if you aren't going to be a racer?

1. So i may be able to read the love note my girlfriend wrote me and write her back.

2. because the store is a mile and a half away from my house, there are no buses, i have no bike, and my feet hurt.

[David Jamieson]

I'm just saying, be realistic about what your martial arts training is about.

In my opinion, it is not realistic to think that any martial arts training will be the solution to fighting crime. Or to being enough to defend yourself against violence in all it's forms.

[hskwarrior]

Fighting is NEVER really the solution. But, it IS a necessity for survival.

[David Jamieson]

Fighting is NEVER really the solution. But, it IS a necessity for survival.

Fighting is more than physical conflict. So, in that sense, I agree.

[hskwarrior]

to move around life as if VIOLENCE is the answer to anything is IDIOTIC. we should all live for peace. BUT, since there is such a supply of thugs, aggression, and violence for sooooo many different reasons, we have to be prepared to asnswer that demand or end up a victim.

[RenDaHai]

All of you are acting like the world out there is black and white.... Some thug attacks you and you fight back. But its not always like that.

Have you ever experienced a situation where YOU are the one who over reacted? Using MA to calm yourself and not over react is just as important. If you look back on all the 'situations' you have been in, probably half of them were ones YOU started in some way. I know they are for me. I think we have to step back and try to guage our reaction from other peoples point of view. I think this type of self control is also MA.

What if YOU are the type of person who wants to fight too much, then you should totally use MA to pacify yourself. Were not all saints. Think of the last situation you were in and put yourslef in another persons shoes... was it really necessary?

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is primitive thinking.

[hskwarrior]

if you are over reacting, then you should step back and correct that. it can get you into a world of trouble.

Learning Martial Arts is not a license to go out and fight. if you go out and pick fights you are smudging your schools and your sifu's name. Martial Arts is supposed to teach us how to be sharp enough to avoid situations. if you are going to snap and start fighting in any type of situation then you are just as bad as the aggressor. no skill, no tolerance. no real ability.

but, i refer to the point of no return. when you know this fight is going to take place no matter what you do. if you are not prepared for that situation you are going to be a victim.

my personal belief is "Train for War, yet strive for peace."

[RenDaHai]

if you are over reacting, then you should step back and correct that. it can get you into a world of trouble.

Right! But Who can say they NEVER have? If you can use martial arts to pacify yourself then that is certainly a worthy goal. Some people out there will never meet more intense violence than they generate themselves.

[hskwarrior]

Life is a learning experience till we are long dead and buried.

Who i am today is totally NOT who i was 10 years ago. And, when my sifu promoted me to SIFU, i was really bad. I was ready to fight anyone at any time. "WTF YOU LOOKING AT?" was one of my favorite things to say back then. but when sifu promoted me, he also told me "what you do from this point forward reflects on me".....and at that point is when i started to leave that street life behind.

I used to be really bad. But, ****, i swear to god it feels GOOD not to be that way anymore.

[RenDaHai]

Life is a learning experience till we are long dead and buried.

Who i am today is totally NOT who i was 10 years ago. And, when my sifu promoted me to SIFU, i was really bad. I was ready to fight anyone at any time. "WTF YOU LOOKING AT?" was one of my favorite things to say back then. but when sifu promoted me, he also told me "what you do from this point forward reflects on me".....and at that point is when i started to leave that street life behind.

I used to be really bad. But, ****, i swear to god it feels GOOD not to be that way anymore.

Great, now thats an example of the best application of Martial Arts, to improve ones self.

[hskwarrior]

At some point we all have to redeem ourselves in our lives.

[ShaolinDan]

Spiritual Cultivation was not originated by hippies.

In fact, warriors were probably using it for centuries before buddha ever existed. A clear, focused, and educated mind is vital to a warrior...it's his greatest weapon.

If you don't believe me go read "Art of War" or "The Book of 5 rings" or ...

[YouKnowWho]

"kill, kill, kill”
Old Chinese saying said, "You may not have intention to hurt a tiger, but that tiger has intention to eat you alive." I always carry firearm with me when I hike in the woods. It's not that I want to kill animals (I'm a vegeterian). I don't want to be eaten by mountain lion or grizzly bear.

When some gang member tell you that he will kill you next time he sees you, if you can't get a gun, your knife fight training may be your next best protection. There is nothing wrong that you just want to live to see the sun raise next morning.

People always said, "CMA is not only for fighting, it's for health, performance, and spiritual development." To me, the purpose of CMA training is very simple, and that's "not to be killed".

[hskwarrior]

Spiritual Cultivation was not originated by hippies.

In fact, warriors were probably using it for centuries before buddha ever existed. A clear, focused, and educated mind is vital to a warrior...it's his greatest weapon.


Then you should move into and monastery and NEVER leave again. The world is a crazy place outside the walls of your world.

Spiritual Cultivation has NOTHING IMHO to do with PHYSICAL combat. You can reach the highest spiritual levels anyone can achieve, THAT WON'T STOP A HUNGRY PERSON FROM ROBBING YOU AND INJURING YOU IN THE PROCESS.

and.....you might say "i will just give it to him" welllllll.......what else you got? cause if you giving it away THAT easy i want all you have.

[Scott R. Brown]

If there were no one willing to fight we would all be saying either "Heil Hitler!", or "Bonzai!", or both!

[hskwarrior]

If there were no one willing to fight we would all be saying either "Heil Hitler!", or "Bonzai!", or both!

THIS is why i think the whole world should shhhhhmoke some ganja.....you can't fight if you're shhhtoned off your arse :D

[ShaolinDan]

Warriors live in the highest stress of all peoples. They have more need to calm their minds, live in the moment, and transcend hardship than anyone else...and always have...why wouldn't they be the pioneers of spiritual cultivation?

[hskwarrior]

LMAO.....I can have all of that when I die :p

[YouKnowWho]

A real fight is a terrifying thing,

Try to experience as homeless in Riverside Rark in NYC for 3 months (I did), you will understand the true meaning of "not want to be killed".

[ShaolinDan]

you know, the message I'm trying to convey is that a cultivated mind/spirit actually makes for a better warrior...but I guess you just don't buy it huh?

[hskwarrior]

ohhhh i HEAR you......i just don't feel you. :p

[ShaolinDan]

Ok.

How long does it take to learn self-defense?
How long does a person study kung fu for?

Why?
Is it really just to be a killing machine?

I give up. :confused:

[hskwarrior]

Ok.

How long does it take to learn self-defense?
How long does a person study kung fu for?

As long as it takes to become good at it. that is different in all aspects cause each person is different.

For LIFE.

If i wanted to cultivate my spirit i'd take YOGA. now THOSE are some real peaceful people. BUTTTTTTT........NAHHHHHHHH not my style.

YES :D

and OH.....NEVER GIVE UP........Martial art means ART OF WAR.....you can spiritually cultivate your mind to become the most ruthless, cunning warrior to ever walk the face of this earth (just for the draaaama)

[ShaolinDan]

Never give up...sure...
but there are some places that it is better not to waste resources attacking. The walls around your mind-city are higher than my resources allow me to tackle.


hskwarrior
and OH.....NEVER GIVE UP........Martial art means ART OF WAR.....you can spiritually cultivate your mind to become the most ruthless, cunning warrior to ever walk the face of this earth (just for the draaaama)



And, hey, that's still spiritual-cultivation...I think you're coming around after all. :)

tell me what martial art means and I'll tell you what kung fu means...it might have a tiny bit to do with self-cultivation.

[hskwarrior]

No....you don't have to tell me. thanks but no thanks. :)

[ShaolinDan]

hskwarrior
At some point we all have to redeem ourselves in our lives.


I know.

[hskwarrior]

right?!?!?!?!?!

[taai gihk yahn]

If there were no one willing to fight we would all be saying either "Heil Hitler!", or "Bonzai!", or both!
well, what if there was no one who was wiling to speak German or Japanese? ha, I guess that would take care of your little scenario, Scottie-boy!

[Yum Cha]

If there were no one willing to fight we would all be saying either "Heil Hitler!", or "Bonzai!", or both!

What?? You don't speak Japanese or German? Sure helps with those manuals for all the stuff we buy from them...

We're one of those schools often considered to be a bit ruthless....

Yes, we teach go in hard and finish it, if you can.

But, that being said, violence is only one element of any conflict strategy. On a 100 to 1 basis, you can get your result without the consequences of violence. There are many tools available to modern man.

You use the tools and live with the consequences, lets never forget consequences.

The consequences of an AVO are a lot more sufferable than 1-4 for manslaughter.

The consequences of running away are more sufferable than entering into a gang vendetta.

The consequences of suffering a home invasion are a lot worse than killing an intruder...

Pride is important, but it can be a distraction.

Violence is only a tool, but if you use it, use it well, the stakes are high.

[RenDaHai]

Come on now guys, No one is going to argue that combat is sometimes necessary and is the major part of our training. But for the comfortable lives that most of us live (we all have access to the internet, i'll call that comfortable) actual combat is probably not all that frequent. Spiritual cultivation is just as important to our training as is combat.
Given that most of us probably don't fight all that often.

And conversely for those of us who have to fight everyday the spiritual cultivation is also necessary to help us make sense of this brutal world. So any way you look at it, its an important half of MA.

You are all quoting extreme examples, but these things are black and white, and only happen to the few. How MA affects your attitude in Day to Day situations is more important because it is what happens every day in all of our lives.

[MasterKiller]

http://www.gammao.com/media/ccp0/prodxl/TS-200.jpg

[Lokhopkuen]

Self portrait:confused:


fighting is not the answer

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LI20iydaNdc/SmqJI2fht_I/AAAAAAAABJ0/D8HAva6XYX4/s400/crying-baby-272x300.jpg

[Lokhopkuen]

THIS is why i think the whole world should shhhhhmoke some ganja.....you can't fight if you're shhhtoned off your arse :D

This is not true:rolleyes:

[Dragonzbane76]

Get a gun, learn to use it and you will have increased your chances of self defense by 1000% over any and all martial arts clubs out there.

The best advise anyone on here can hope to follow.

“The lord made men, but Sam Colt made them equal” american proverb

[SPJ]

This is what the true martial arts are against. Such a bad attitude and loss of personal self-belief flies in the face of what the martial arts are truly all about. The arts should instill confidence and provide the person with the tools to avoid violence at all costs. They should plant the seed of personal self-growth within the individual that they can then take with them through life. This then is what our White Crane Martial Arts hopes to do for those who choose to study it. Making good people, better is our aim.

fighting is a means and not an end.

if you focus on defense, then you have peace in mind.

[bawang]

I agree with Minghequan. In lots of MA i see this attitude of 'an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth' or even worse. This attitude was primitive 2000 years ago. Its not the way of someone who practices gong fu.

The nature of Gong Fu is what really seperates traditional MA from their modern counterparts. Although modern MA may be more effective combat training in many cases they are lacking in the spiritual domain.

this is racism against chinese culture because european christians think eye for an eye is bad. chinese culture thinks its good. if u cant respect that dont do chinese kung fu pls. i believe in an eye for 20 eyes. on thursdays 30 eyes


chinese jesus hong xiuquan said "if ur scared pusy then fuk off, dont step on my bridge" i agree with chinese jesus i think he is rite. grow sum bawls and b a mang. lift weits and b trong. army trong


Life is a learning experience till we are long dead and buried.

Who i am today is totally NOT who i was 10 years ago. And, when my sifu promoted me to SIFU, i was really bad. I was ready to fight anyone at any time. "WTF YOU LOOKING AT?" was one of my favorite things to say back then. but when sifu promoted me, he also told me "what you do from this point forward reflects on me".....and at that point is when i started to leave that street life behind.

I used to be really bad. But, ****, i swear to god it feels GOOD not to be that way anymore.

your sifu *****whipped u. u r not a man anemoar. u r more like a woman-man.

[PalmStriker]

Can fight when time for fight= "good gongfu". AV.:D

[SanHeChuan]

This is what the true martial arts are against. Such a bad attitude and loss of personal self-belief flies in the face of what the martial arts are truly all about. The arts should instill confidence and provide the person with the tools to avoid violence at all costs. They should plant the seed of personal self-growth within the individual that they can then take with them through life. This then is what our White Crane Martial Arts hopes to do for those who choose to study it. Making good people, better is our aim.

If you're suppose to avoid confrontation at all cost, why spend so much time learning martial arts. Wouldn't your time be better spent on avoidance techniques?

What do you spend most of your time teaching?

Ass-kicking
or
Avoidance
De-Escalation
Conflict Resolution

Which have you invested the most time learning?
Which one are you qualified to teach?
What tools do you think MA gives someone to not fight?

The latter falls under the realm of psychology, if you want to learn psychology why would you go to a kung fu school?

Power Points

Avoidance (http://www.nasponline.org/prepare/cpipresentations/threatassessment.ppt)

De-escalation (http://webscripts.esd101.net/safety/PowerPoint%20Training/S_03.ppt)

Conflict Resolution (http://www.ncsu.edu/grad/preparing-future-leaders/docs/conflict-resolution.pdf)

learning avoidance etc... is laudable, and if you can/do incorperate that kind of training good on you, but let’s not kid ourselves, MA is about kicking-ass.

[goju]

Eh this thread makes me want to barf.:D

Ancient man created martial arts for no other reason than to defend themselves and hurt or kill another human being THATS IT.

All the silly spiritual nonsense is just for people who have gotten lost in their own @ss with david carradine fortune cookie spirituality.


just be a decent human being and eschew the rest of the martial code malarkey that very few of the old timers ever used to begin with :D

[David Jamieson]

There's no such thing as spiritual nonsense if that's where a dude finds his peace. :)
Finding that place is a weird path and it takes many forms.

Train Kung Fu because you want to, because you love it and it's what you believe makes you a better person all round.

You will invariably get out of it what you put in. :)

[Dragonzbane76]

Says the pu$$y beginner

Get of this board, your pink panties are showing you little b!tch

how bout going and f u cking your self you old dried up c u n t! do you f a rt dust really, i'm suprised you have the urge to get out of bed in the mornings. Why don't you just end it all seriously. :rolleyes:

is that a picture of you? or your boyfriend?

[bawang]

The best advise anyone on here can hope to follow.

“The lord made men, but Sam Colt made them equal” american proverb

american kung fu needs to incorporate firearms
ming dynasty was starting to replace all of the traditional spears with french and dutch rifles before it fell. the line between firearms and kung fu was blurry

[Lokhopkuen]

Eh this thread makes me want to barf.:D

Ancient man created martial arts for no other reason than to defend themselves and hurt or kill another human being THATS IT.

All the silly spiritual nonsense is just for people who have gotten lost in their own @ss with david carradine fortune cookie spirituality.


just be a decent human being and eschew the rest of the martial code malarkey that very few of the old timers ever used to begin with :D

The following **** is some sh!t I wouldda wrote had I had the time or the inclination to write some **** like like this sh!t right here:

The Image of the Cosmos in the I Ching: the Yi-globe

The Yi-globe and the human microcosm

The I Ching and the Nei Jing
The Yi-globe as the symbol of the microcosm
According to the teachings of the I Ching, a wise man is supposed to contemplate on the hexagrams, understanding thereby their meanings. As the book says: 'In this way man comes to resemble heaven and earth, he is not in conflict with them. His wisdom embraces all things, and his Tao brings order into the whole world; therefore he does not err.' [Baynes: 295.] This saying includes the traditional idea that man was originally created in the semblance of heaven, that is he represents a certain kind of microcosm, having thereby an inherent ability to apply the heavenly laws to himself, thus harmonizing with heaven. The I Ching renders guidance for the solution of this exact task, disclosing the rules of harmonious human life. Therefore the book, since ancient times, has exerted its influence not only on the spiritual development of men but on the preservation and curing of bodily health as well. Also the theoretical fundaments of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) reflect the spirituality of the I Ching, or are directly originated from it. The frequently quoted saying of Sun Simiao, a Taoist priest and medical expert (581-682), is generally accepted in this sphere, according to which: 'You cannot master medicine until you have studied the I Ching.'

In the previous passages the Yi-globe was discussed as the symbol of the macrocosm but it seems to be probable that also the human world, the microcosm, should be manifested in it. This consideration encourages the discussion on the Yi-globe and the human microcosm as on comparable ideas. Hereafter, such elements will be revealed in the Yi-globe, which are considered as the fundamental features of the human organism.

THE I CHING AND THE NEI JING

To demonstrate the relationship between the I Ching and Chinese medicine, the oldest ancient work of the vast TCM literature, the Nei Jing serves the purpose best. The theoretical and practical material of this book forms the basis of each following Chinese medical work, and therefore still exercises its influence in our time. The survival of the Nei Jing through millennari can be attributed to its versatility; being not only a medical book but rather a philosophical treatise on health and illness. Ilza Veith writes that in the ancient China: 'Medicine was but a part of philosophy and religion, both of which propounded oneness with nature, i.e. the universe.' [Veith: 10.] Thus it is impossible to understand the Nei Jing without being familiar with the Chinese thinking of that time, with special regard to the three fundamental concepts: the Tao, the yin/yang duality and the theory of the five elements. From among these concepts the first two are cardinal ideas in the I Ching as well, and so, as common spiritual base, create a thorough relationship between the two works.

The Tao, “the Way” stands for the general ordering principle of the universe. One has to follow it to attain internal peace and complete enlightenment. The following of the Tao means performing the balance between the two principles of existence: the yin and the yang.

Instead of further speculations, some citations below will illustrate how the Tao and the yin/yang duality appears in these two cardinal works of Chinese philosophy and Chinese medicine.

1.) Structure of the universe: the role of the Tao and the duality of the world.
In the I Ching:
'The Book of Changes contains the measure of heaven and earth; therefore it enables us to comprehend the Tao of heaven and earth and its order.'
The same in the Nei Jing:
'The principle of Yin and Yang is the basic principle of the entire universe. It is the principle of everything in creation.'
2.) The aim of the wise man: to understand the changes in the world, and to follow the Tao accordingly.
I Ching:
'As the firm and the yielding lines displace one another, change and transformation arise.' Further on, according to the previously cited saying: 'Since in this way man comes to resemble heaven and earth, he is not in conflict with them. His wisdom embraces all things, and his Tao brings order into the whole world; therefore he does not err.'
Nei Jing:
'If Yin and Yang change the people will change likewise and their destiny can then be prefigured. ... In ancient times those people who understood Tao patterned themselves upon the Yin and the Yang and they lived in harmony with the arts of divination.'
'Obedience to the laws of Yin and Yang means life; disobedience means death.'
3.) Parting of spirit and form.
I Ching:
'In the heavens phenomena take form; on earth shapes take form.'
Nei Jing:
'In Heaven there are ethereal spirits; upon earth there is form and shape.'
4.) Yin and yang: dark and light.
I Ching:
'That which lets now the dark, now the light appear is Tao.' (Here the original Chinese text applies the words yin and yang, and those are replaced by dark and light in the English translation.)
Nei Jing:
'Heaven was created by an accumulation of Yang, the element of light; Earth was created by an accumulation of Yin, the element of darkness.'
As the citations show, the ideas of the I Ching appear in the Nei Jing almost word for word; however, in the latter, these statements serve first of all to support the guidelines in respect to the restoration of the balance of the bodily state. For that matter, nowadays, the principles of the I Ching also find an ever increasing application in the western world and not only in spiritual field but also in everyday practice. Medical practitioners and doctors, moreover medical centers and hospitals, work and cure patients using these traditional principles (the methods of divination are applied for example in diagnostics as well).

The third spiritual base of the Nei Jing, the five element theory, is not included in the I Ching. This does not mean that this theory was unknown at the time the book was written, but rather denotes that the I Ching deals with such higher levels of existence where the differentiation of the world to the five elements is not yet taken into consideration.

[Lokhopkuen]

Eh this thread makes me want to barf.:D

Ancient man created martial arts for no other reason than to defend themselves and hurt or kill another human being THATS IT.

All the silly spiritual nonsense is just for people who have gotten lost in their own @ss with david carradine fortune cookie spirituality.


just be a decent human being and eschew the rest of the martial code malarkey that very few of the old timers ever used to begin with :D

Spirituality,
Physicality,
Your Mental Play Ground,
The Sensorium

Are all dynamic aspects of our lives that need to be kept in balance.
If you get caught up on any one aspect the entire microcosm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOpGSU0OgbY) will suffer.

[hskwarrior]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Bawang : your sifu *****whipped u. u r not a man anemoar. u r more like a woman-man. [QUOTE]

Did your sifu give you the name of "A$$hammer"??????? u sifu turned u into a$$ pirate...

[bawang]

its ok if u dont make eye contact

[hskwarrior]

LMAO....no no likey contact with a$$hammer boy.....no likey contact with any kind boy......you likey da hershey highway....JOW LA!!!!

[bawang]

no u gay

TAKE IT BACK

i challenge u to lei tai match. we fight wit no cloth. were u live

[SteveLau]

Minghequan,

Yep, fighting is not the answer all the time, but sometimes it is. Sure there are MA schools that leave ethics out of the training on purpose. I am aware that there are such schools in existence. They are opened as business school in that their goal is for profit making.


David Jamieson,

Your words are true. If one wants to protect himself in today's world, martial art training is good, but inadequate. Carrying a 28mm Barreuta is a good choice.



KC
Hong Kong

[Hardwork108]

A very true statement!


Minghequan,

Yep, fighting is not the answer all the time, but sometimes it is. Sure there are MA schools that leave ethics out of the training on purpose. I am aware that there are such schools in existence. They are opened as business school in that their goal is for profit making.[

And the people who run such schools, and their followers/friends, go around telling everyone (and that includes people in this forum), that there are no codes of ethics or morality in any kung fu training, in order to make their own immoral approach to MA profiteering more palatable.

[hskwarrior]

no u da twinkle toe girly man.....i no take nutheeng back....nutheeng!!!!!!
and i no like lei with you....lei tai .....what that mean? i lei down you tai me up? its not my kind party buddee

[Dragonzbane76]

And the people who run such schools, and their followers/friends, go around telling everyone (and that includes people in this forum), that there are no codes of ethics or morality in any kung fu training, in order to make their own immoral approach to MA profiteering more palatable.

no one said one word about anything you mentioned above. really can't you just let things go. Everytime you bring it up it makes you look worse.

[Lokhopkuen]

how bout going and f u cking your self you old dried up c u n t! do you f a rt dust really, i'm suprised you have the urge to get out of bed in the mornings. Why don't you just end it all seriously. :rolleyes:

is that a picture of you? or your boyfriend?


I just decided to poke you to see you squeal like the hateful little girly man that you are:rolleyes:
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/lokhopkuen/imgres.jpg
You are the purple one sweetie!

PS I do f@rt dust and pi$$ lava:D

[Dragonzbane76]

I just decided to poke you to see you squeal like the hateful little girly man that you are

why don't you leave the poking for your boyfriend. you seem to be oriented in that direction. lol



You are the purple one sweetie!
and your the pink one. darlin...:rolleyes:


PS I do f@rt dust and pi$$ lava
the lave is called syphilis... the interwebs says that it feels like lava. suggestion: butt banging guys is probably where you contracted it. quit riding the hershey highway and you won't get nasty things like that.

[Lokhopkuen]

why don't you leave the poking for your boyfriend. you seem to be oriented in that direction. lol



and your the pink one. darlin...:rolleyes:


the lave is called syphilis... the interwebs says that it feels like lava. suggestion: butt banging guys is probably where you contracted it. quit riding the hershey highway and you won't get nasty things like that.


Let's see:
So far you've accused me of copying and pasting my student manual,
Called me all sorts of love names,
Threatened to shoot me (on a martial art forum {which branded you as a fat wet pu$$y})
Called me old as if that is an insult,
and now attempt to entice me to join your pink mafia social?

There have to be better ways to meet new men other than this son:p

Now:
Brother who you roll with is your business (I'm not knocking you BTW) but I'm married with five kids, (In to women ONLY)
so
no I will not stand
under your
]rainbow banner with you,
you big flirt:rolleyes:

Flattered none the less...

Please don't make me have to reach over there and snatch your tampon outta 'ya...

[sanjuro_ronin]

When you

- are as rich as Bill Gates, you can then say "money is not important".
- are 100 years old, you can then say, "I have lived long enough".
- have WMD, you can then talk about "world peace".

There is big difference between "can't do" and "won't do". Without martial ability, Wude is just empty words.

This should have ended here.

[David Jamieson]

This should have ended here.

lol, I don't even agree with what John is saying here.

I do agree that without ability, wu de is just words as well.
But the other other stuff? Nope.

Anyone can know that money isn't everything even when they have none.
A person who wants to stop living, regardless of age can decide they've had enough.
Anyone can actively talk about and promote world peace with meaning.

Ghandi didn't have a nuke at the time he secured independence for India for instance.

anyway...

[RenDaHai]

QUOTE:

When you

- are as rich as Bill Gates, you can then say "money is not important".
- are 100 years old, you can then say, "I have lived long enough".
- have WMD, you can then talk about "world peace".


This logic is flawed

The correction would be; If bill gates gave away every last penny he has and lived as a vagrant, then he could say money is not important.

If you created WMD, and then destroyed them yourself, then you could talk about world peace.

[MightyB]

QUOTE:

When you

- are as rich as Bill Gates, you can then say "money is not important".
- are 100 years old, you can then say, "I have lived long enough".
- have WMD, you can then talk about "world peace".


This logic is flawed

The correction would be; If bill gates gave away every last penny he has and lived as a vagrant, then he could say money is not important.

If you created WMD, and then destroyed them yourself, then you could talk about world peace.

http://givingpledge.org/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/09/world/europe/09prexy.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol, I don't even agree with what John is saying here.

I do agree that without ability, wu de is just words as well.
But the other other stuff? Nope.

Anyone can know that money isn't everything even when they have none.
A person who wants to stop living, regardless of age can decide they've had enough.
Anyone can actively talk about and promote world peace with meaning.

Ghandi didn't have a nuke at the time he secured independence for India for instance.

anyway...

You may have missed John's point.
Ghandi was never a MA so it doesn't apply to him, John's view is totally applicable to MA.
Fact is, you are talking about MA and fighting and as such, anything outside of MA is not really that applicable.
You can never claim to understand anything that you have never expereinced.
Ghandi understood violence because he experienced it, first hand, buthe was never a MA and as such, he is not the best example as to who a MA relates to violence.
Violence and MA go hand-in-hand, you can't have one without the other.
MA walk the thing line between being pacifists and trained killers, a line that can get blurred very easy and many times does.
BUt unless you have walked that line, you really don't have a point of reference to work from.

[David Jamieson]

You may have missed John's point.
Ghandi was never a MA so it doesn't apply to him, John's view is totally applicable to MA.
Fact is, you are talking about MA and fighting and as such, anything outside of MA is not really that applicable.
You can never claim to understand anything that you have never expereinced.
Ghandi understood violence because he experienced it, first hand, buthe was never a MA and as such, he is not the best example as to who a MA relates to violence.
Violence and MA go hand-in-hand, you can't have one without the other.
MA walk the thing line between being pacifists and trained killers, a line that can get blurred very easy and many times does.
BUt unless you have walked that line, you really don't have a point of reference to work from.

If John's point was "direct experience is the best teacher" then as a practitioner of Chan, I fully agree. But that's not what he was saying. He was by all appearances making a claim that it is diametrical opposition that shows us truth, but in fact, that only shows us the extreme ends of a spectrum of choices that can be made and acted upon.

[Dragonzbane76]

first off i'm not your Son or your brother so lets get that straight since you seem intent on it.


So far you've accused me of copying and pasting my student manual,
Called me all sorts of love names,
Threatened to shoot me (on a martial art forum {which branded you as a fat wet pu$$y})

first:so you copy and paste your student manual good for you.
second: are the names true?
third: if you would learn to read, my statement was in reference to when you was threatening to go to ross's school and beat him down or some such stupid crap. My reference to you was "If you showed up on my DOOR step I would probably just shoot your a$$." In this state if you trespass then I have every right to shoot someone.


and now attempt to entice me to join your pink mafia social?
your the one posting pics of your boyfriends or what ever...

I'm married with five kids, (In to women ONLY) grats you want a medal for having kids and being married? any idiot can do that.


Please don't make me have to reach over there and snatch your tampon outta 'ya...
don't hurt yourself with to much movement. don't fall down and break your hip. :)

[Lokhopkuen]

first off i'm not your Son or your brother so lets get that straight since you seem intent on it.


first:so you copy and paste your student manual good for you.
second: are the names true?
third: if you would learn to read, my statement was in reference to when you was threatening to go to ross's school and beat him down or some such stupid crap. My reference to you was "If you showed up on my DOOR step I would probably just shoot your a$$." In this state if you trespass then I have every right to shoot someone.


your the one posting pics of your boyfriends or what ever...
grats you want a medal for having kids and being married? any idiot can do that.


don't hurt yourself with to much movement. don't fall down and break your hip. :)

Much more likely to break yours Suzie:D
I didn't threaten Ross I asked for a lesson LOL!
As far as you shooting me, I'd take it from you and shove it up the root of your pathetic personality Son. (yes your mother knows me)

Why don't you write Gene and beg him to "do something" again:rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

If John's point was "direct experience is the best teacher" then as a practitioner of Chan, I fully agree. But that's not what he was saying. He was by all appearances making a claim that it is diametrical opposition that shows us truth, but in fact, that only shows us the extreme ends of a spectrum of choices that can be made and acted upon.

Well, not speaking for John's Wang :D, lest take the example he gave of Gates.
Gates knows that money is "not important" ( of course it is but I assume John means is not THAT important in the grand scheme of things) because he has money.
Now, a poor man may also THING he knows this, but unless he has been both POOR AND RICH, he doesn't know it for sure.

We have this site as an example of people that know things because they have been there and done that and others because they THINK they know, the end result may be the same, but the process wasn't.

Fighting is not the answer is the topic, but the fact is, it depends on the question.
And no one knows that better than those that HAVE fought on both the side of "right" and "wrong".

[SPJ]

fighting may not be the answer.

it could be part of solutions.

it could also be part of the problems.

violence must be stopped by more violence.

but avoidance can be a way to stop violence.

building up strength, the enemy has to think twice before attack.

my point is that avoidance and building up your own strength and keep the enemy in check are answers to violence, too.

during spring autumn and warring states, there were never ending wars/battles in China. at the time, the idea was to use war to stop war or yi zhan zhi zhan 以战止战

after Sun Wu, he proposed that stopping the enemy without fighting is the best solution or best win. bu zhan er qu ren zhi bing 不战而屈人兵

it is still warring but with no bloodshed.

[SPJ]

let in a known "secret"

use the war to keep the war. yi zhan yang zhan 以战养战

the general was ordered to fight rebels or bandits.

instead of ending the war fast and go home.

the general would delay everything, just pretending fighting but not actually fighting. so that he may continue to collect pay and supply; so that he may become stronger and stronger with more men recruited and more supply.

he has a job.

otherwise, he finished the fight and went home and became a civilian again with no power and money.

shame. shame. shame.

:(

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KjRdzVyLhA

English translation.

:)

[Hardwork108]

no one said one word about anything you mentioned above. really can't you just let things go. Everytime you bring it up it makes you look worse.

First of all I was making a general comment.

Secondly, my comments were not intended for you. They were directed at another poster who, unlike you, actually practices TCMAs.

Look, you are already making a fool out of yourself in this thread, so don't make things worse.

On a plus side, it seems that you continue reading my every post, so I guess enlightenment is still a possible goal for you to achieve.

I mean possible, but very remote. LOL!

[SPJ]

let in a known "secret"

use the war to keep the war. yi zhan yang zhan 以战养战

the general was ordered to fight rebels or bandits.

instead of ending the war fast and go home.

the general would delay everything, just pretending fighting but not actually fighting. so that he may continue to collect pay and supply; so that he may become stronger and stronger with more men recruited and more supply.

he has a job.

otherwise, he finished the fight and went home and became a civilian again with no power and money.

shame. shame. shame.

:(

there are too many examples of this.

the most well known one would be Si Ma Yi during 3 kingdoms.

all the army of wei 魏 was under cao 曹 relatives.

however, they were all defeated by Zhu Ge Liang of shu han 蜀汉.

only Si may deal with zhu. Si commanded cao army for over 10 years without really wanted to win over zhu, thus si tightened his control of cao wei army.

later he took over the power from cao family with the army supported him loyally.

and later they formed jin 晋 dynasty and united china.

[SPJ]

over 10 years of battles between si and zhu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWpyqTKGys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT86xQHGPqE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ca4bHoKwTM&feature=related

clips for the empty fort plot or kong cheng ji

:cool:

[Dragonzbane76]

As far as you shooting me, I'd take it from you and shove it up the root of your pathetic personality Son. (yes your mother knows me)

again i'm not your son.

as for shoving things up "special places" i'll leave that to your man love ways. Good for you knowing my mother she's been dead for 10 years... bets that's a hell of a relationship.

and speaking of personalities... you seem to have a split one, violent in orientation and moron mixed. haha I must have really hit a nerve with you to be so violent and obsessive.


Why don't you write Gene and beg him to "do something" again

:confused:?? I have no idea where this came from??I've never wrote him for anything and you can ask him. again you need some medication now your showing signs of dementia. grow up, get a life, your just a pi$$ed off old man that tries to tell everyone what to do.

[bawang]

HI GUYS fgdgdf

[YouKnowWho]

that only shows us the extreme ends of a spectrum of choices that can be made and acted upon.

When a stick is bend, in order to straight it up, just bending it to straight is not enough, you will need to bend it over to the other extream first. While 99% of the CMA population are talking about health, performance, Qi, and spiritual development, it makes no sense for us to talk about "none fighting". Same as it makes no sense for Taiwan to talk about "world peace". The day when MMA guys all show respect to our CMA, I will be glad to say, "CMA is not for fighting only, it can be ...". Until then I like to emphasis the "combat" extream.

When people talk about "borrowing force", I always believe it's better to be stronger than weak (Bill Gates doesn't need to borrow money).

[SPJ]

it is like a coin with 2 sides.

we have to learn and know

how and why to fight

how and why not to fight

need to know both.

[YouKnowWho]

need to know both.
It's like my Longfist teacher used to say:

- If you don't have a good reason to fight and you fight, I'll beat you up when I find out.
- If you have a good reason to fight and you don't fight, I'll still beat you up when I find out.

Here "have a good reason and don't" can be as bad as "don't have a good reason and do". We just don't hear any CMA instructor tell his students this way in our generation.

Sometime a teacher should pull his student away from a fight. Sometime a teacher should put a knife in his student's hand in a fight.

[Hardwork108]

When a stick is bend, in order to straight it up, just bending it to straight is not enough, you will need to bend it over to the other extream first. While 99% of the CMA population are talking about health, performance, Qi, and spiritual development, it makes no sense for us to talk about "none fighting". Same as it makes no sense for Taiwan to talk about "world peace". The day when MMA guys all show respect to our CMA, I will be glad to say, "CMA is not for fighting only, it can be ...". Until then I like to emphasis the "combat" extream.
What you say makes a lot of sense.


When people talk about "borrowing force", I always believe it's better to be stronger than weak (Bill Gates doesn't need to borrow money).
My Chow Gar sifu would agree with you here, and naturally so do I.

However, IMHO the wisdom of the "borrowing force" approach assumes that no matter how strong one is, there is always a chance that one day he will face a stronger opponent, in which case the skill of "borrowing force", and "softness" and "sensitivity" abilities may mean the difference between winning and losing.

[Dragonzbane76]

First of all I was making a general comment.
then why post the same thing over and over? once gets the job done.


Secondly, my comments were not intended for you. They were directed at another poster who, unlike you, actually practices TCMAs.
If it was a general comment as stated above then it really wasn't directed at a single person. Your making a double negative.

Look, you are already making a fool out of yourself in this thread, so don't make things worse.
didn't know we were in a contest... oh yeah that thing about winnning the internet... sorry forgot. :rolleyes:


On a plus side, it seems that you continue reading my every post, so I guess enlightenment is still a possible goal for you to achieve.

I mean possible, but very remote. LOL! I read most of the posts on here?
even the idiotic ones (yours)

[Lokhopkuen]

again i'm not your son.

as for shoving things up "special places" i'll leave that to your man love ways. Good for you knowing my mother she's been dead for 10 years... bets that's a hell of a relationship.

and speaking of personalities... you seem to have a split one, violent in orientation and moron mixed. haha I must have really hit a nerve with you to be so violent and obsessive.



:confused:?? I have no idea where this came from??I've never wrote him for anything and you can ask him. again you need some medication now your showing signs of dementia. grow up, get a life, your just a pi$$ed off old man that tries to tell everyone what to do.

:DHa ha ha ha ha!:D
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q69/lokhopkuen/photo-2.jpg
Made my day, thank u:p

[Dragonzbane76]

wow didn't you post that like last week?

some people just have no concept of originality. :)

speaking of serious business..

I like the threats you've been sending me in the PM's.

here i'll post it for everyone to see. :)

As i said before yeah the internet is serious business, seems you do take it serious.


First one:
"Fu*k you too ya little b!tch
Remember it's juss the internet...."

second:
"hi


Phuq your mother b!tch"

what ever that means?

third:
best for last
"I'm rich and famose b!tch
Pray I never learn your name... "

[MysteriousPower]

lol, I don't even agree with what John is saying here.

I do agree that without ability, wu de is just words as well.
But the other other stuff? Nope.

Anyone can know that money isn't everything even when they have none.
A person who wants to stop living, regardless of age can decide they've had enough.
Anyone can actively talk about and promote world peace with meaning.

Ghandi didn't have a nuke at the time he secured independence for India for instance.

anyway...


"__________________
Fighting is often proof of a lack of skill, a lack of kung fu and a lack of comprehension."


That last quote appears at the end of all your posts. It shows your lack of understanding of what martial arts was intended for and not what new age people tried to make it into. Ghandi did not have a nuke. This you are correct about. BUT he had millions of followers and the sympathy of the world. Other world nations were pressuring Britain to let India have independence because clearly they did not understand the martial enough to do it themselves. You make it sound like Ghandi did it all on his own through peaceful protests. History is written to reflect this flawed view. Do you think anyone would have taken him seriously had he been alone? I saw a guy dressed like Jesus once. He was walking around talking about God coming for sinners. Everyone ignored him.

If a person wants health he only need to lift weights and take brisk walks. We will call this health arts. For a person to be doing MARTIAL arts there has to be physical contact/pressure from other people. Just because a guy is doing forms or punching in the air, for exercise, it does not mean he is doing martial arts. Dancers do that all the time. Are they martial artists? There are plenty of better ways to stay healthy than doing forms in the air.

[Dragonzbane76]

Just because a guy is doing forms or punching in the air, for exercise, it does not mean he is doing martial arts. Dancers do that all the time. Are they martial artists? There are plenty of better ways to stay healthy than doing forms in the air.

guess it would depend upon what you are expecting to get out of "said" activity.

"sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken"

[MysteriousPower]

guess it would depend upon what you are expecting to get out of "said" activity.

That is true, dragonsbane. At best you are getting minimal exercise. For martial purposes...no forms.

[Dragonzbane76]

For martial purposes...no forms.

agree,

I've always said to learn fighting you need to fight.

although I'm not going to dismantle forms all together. They have a purpose but most people mistake that purpose. fitness,dexterity, motorskills, etc.

[David Jamieson]

"__________________
Fighting is often proof of a lack of skill, a lack of kung fu and a lack of comprehension."


That last quote appears at the end of all your posts. It shows your lack of understanding of what martial arts was intended for and not what new age people tried to make it into. Ghandi did not have a nuke. This you are correct about. BUT he had millions of followers and the sympathy of the world. Other world nations were pressuring Britain to let India have independence because clearly they did not understand the martial enough to do it themselves. You make it sound like Ghandi did it all on his own through peaceful protests. History is written to reflect this flawed view. Do you think anyone would have taken him seriously had he been alone? I saw a guy dressed like Jesus once. He was walking around talking about God coming for sinners. Everyone ignored him.

If a person wants health he only need to lift weights and take brisk walks. We will call this health arts. For a person to be doing MARTIAL arts there has to be physical contact/pressure from other people. Just because a guy is doing forms or punching in the air, for exercise, it does not mean he is doing martial arts. Dancers do that all the time. Are they martial artists? There are plenty of better ways to stay healthy than doing forms in the air.


whatever. :rolleyes:

[MysteriousPower]

whatever. :rolleyes:

You are the worst I have ever seen at debating. You throw out a not so true romanticized factoid about Ghandi to prove your point? Go watch the Ben Kingsley movie again to get your "facts" straight. Lol.

I agree with youknowwho. If you have never fought you cannot say that fighting is not needed. That was a general "you" and not directed at anyone. You are supposed to GAIN enlightenment through fighting and not in its absence.

[David Jamieson]

^ troll :rolleyes:

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Not sure where this thread is going or where it has gone direction wise, but in regards to the original post about fighting not being the answer:

Training Kung Fu or martial arts is an activity that involves hand to hand or weapons combat. Fighting is fighting, call it what you want but in the end it is fighting.

Some train for health purposes, some for combat sports, some for self defense, blah, blah, blah.

Fighting is the answer in two situations, when you want it to be or when it has to be. If a person walks up to you and calls you a co**ck sucker, you have a choice of walking away or stomping his as**s. If a person walks up to you and starts swinging punches or grabs you and tries to take you down or whatever, you can stand there and spout off philosophical pansy as**s jibberish while taking an as**s whooping, or you can do what it takes to protect yourself, which is, gasp, fighting.

There are about a million scenerios that come in to play, but either you want to fight or you have to fight. All else is subjective.

[KC Elbows]

You have to fight to get good at fighting, imo.

That said, people who train people to fight and also endorse an idiot attitude about being tough and posturing are not doing their students a favor in life. Society does not treat thugs well in the long run, and society mostly wins all fights.

The worst is fight coaches who put their needs as a teacher and owner of a team above the needs of the young individuals who are fighting for them. They have always existed, and, unfortunately, always will, but they deserve no respect whatsoever.

No one anywhere respects a person without morality. We can claim it's never part of the martial discussion, but it's part of any discussion regarding people, period.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You have to fight to get good at fighting, imo.

That said, people who train people to fight and also endorse an idiot attitude about being tough and posturing are not doing their students a favor in life. Society does not treat thugs well in the long run, and society mostly wins all fights.

The worst is fight coaches who put their needs as a teacher and owner of a team above the needs of the young individuals who are fighting for them. They have always existed, and, unfortunately, always will, but they deserve no respect whatsoever.

No one anywhere respects a person without morality. We can claim it's never part of the martial discussion, but it's part of any discussion regarding people, period.

I agree, but martial arts shouldn't have to teach morality, that is the job of parents, guardians of the person. Unfortunately, when you have a person like this who learns martial arts it just makes them that much more dangerous. Most of us who train do have morals and the spirit of martial arts and the comradery it breeds in those you train with I believe goes much further than a sifu or coach telling you what is right and what is wrong. Most of us should know this, and if we don't, we have no business learning the martial arts. But unfortunately, this cannot always be controlled.

[KC Elbows]

I agree, but martial arts shouldn't have to teach morality, that is the job of parents, guardians of the person. Unfortunately, when you have a person like this who learns martial arts it just makes them that much more dangerous. Most of us who train do have morals and the spirit of martial arts and the comradery it breeds in those you train with I believe goes much further than a sifu or coach telling you what is right and what is wrong. Most of us should know this, and if we don't, we have no business learning the martial arts. But unfortunately, this cannot always be controlled.

Ultimately, we are responsible for our own moral growth, but, that presumes we surround ourselves with moral people and/or associate with others out of a belief in their potential. If we choose an immoral person as our martial arts teacher, we should be frank about their qualities and not enable their conduct, and if we choose a moral person as such, we will likely be learning some small part of morality from them in the process, just as we do from being inspired by friends, family, etc.

Allowing circumstances to exist where we do not consider moral obligations to be relevant is pretty much the same as endorsing immoral conduct, imo.

How do you not take morality into account in human interactions?

[bawang]

most american people join kung fu because they want to buy fantasy and dreams. if u dont teach morality you dont sell what you advertise. its false advertisement

if u say "kung fu is about self realization" or "spitiruality" then you dont teach morality that makes u a hypocrat. people cant fight so they talk and talk about morality, but dont wanna teach or practice it

[KC Elbows]

most american people join kung fu because they want to buy fantasy and dreams. if u dont teach morality you dont sell what you advertise. its false advertisement

You can't teach confucianism without approximately three hundred tangentially related people who know everything about your business.

Thankfully, we have the internet now.

I'm planning on building a chain of schools based on the shaolin model. Training will start with good kung fu to get them hooked, then the school will be burned, at which point I will begin teaching the advanced martial cha cha for real dollars or take away your rank.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

How do you not take morality into account in human interactions?

It's not that I am not taking into account, it is that I believe it should be a learned theology before someone learns martial arts. I'm not saying morality cannot be learned from martial arts or a teacher, it just should not be that person's sole source of morality. Years ago my instructor had a kid's class and one of the kid's was overly aggressive and tried to hurt who he was sparring with. My instructor than began to instill in him that this is not the way and that he would have to change this to continue training with him.

His father was an ass**hole who pushed him to be the best but not in a good way, basically encouraging him to hurt anyone in front of him and a take no prisoners attitude. Although the child improved somewhat he still kept that attitude and was eventually kicked out of the school by my instructor because he continued to try and hurt other kids sparring. It was unfortunate because the father not kept his child from progressing and learning martial arts, but was also sowing the seeds of him becoming a sociopath. So you see, I am simply pointing out that while martial arts can help some and make them better people, it can also make dangerous people more dangerous.

[KC Elbows]

It's not that I am not taking into account,

I'm aware of that, I'm mostly conversing on the topic, your points are good.


it is that I believe it should be a learned theology before someone learns martial arts.

My experience is that most men under 27 have not learned real morality yet, and thtose who learn a moral system before then are no more likely to be really moral as much as fearful of making bad choices, which is a different thing altogether.

We rule out men under 27, and all our dollars for the shaolin kenpo aikijutsu academy are up in smoke.


I'm not saying morality cannot be learned from martial arts or a teacher, it just should not be that person's sole source of morality. Years ago my instructor had a kid's class and one of the kid's was overly aggressive and tried to hurt who he was sparring with. My instructor than began to instill in him that this is not the way and that he would have to change this to continue training with him.

His father was an ass**hole who pushed him to be the best but not in a good way, basically encouraging him to hurt anyone in front of him and a take no prisoners attitude. Although the child improved somewhat he still kept that attitude and was eventually kicked out of the school by my instructor because he continued to try and hurt other kids sparring. It was unfortunate because the father not kept his child from progressing and learning martial arts, but was also sowing the seeds of him becoming a sociopath. So you see, I am simply pointing out that while martial arts can help some and make them better people, it can also make dangerous people more dangerous.

The attempt wass noble and worth it, imo. It was a way of accepting that we are stuck, at some level, trying to be good moral examples to those around us, which is better than no teaching.

[bawang]

You can't teach confucianism without approximately three hundred tangentially related people who know everything about your business.


chinese martial arts dont believe in confucius. they believe in values of the hap/xia. you know, avenging wrongs, upholding righteousness and justice, beating your kids, etc

[KC Elbows]

chinese martial arts dont believe in confucius. they believe in values of the hap/xia. you know, avenging wrongs, upholding righteousness and justice, beating your kids, etc

What about hookers?

[Dragonzbane76]

beating your kids, etc

how bout beating your woman? is it in there to? :p

[bawang]

no. if u beat your woman she will poison you. and no more make babbies.
beating your kid traumatizes him and makes him dead inside. this hardens him and prepares for his future harsh life on the rivers and lakes, where he will have to take a head as his initiation.
the laws of the jianghu says prostitues, exiled prisoners, and monks are forbidden to be killed. but u can attack farmers and fishermen. in the world of the jianghu, only the strong survive.

if sifus teach their students this , and sometimes beat their students with a big stick until they cry, then tell them to stop crying or beat some more, kung fu will be a better place.

[KC Elbows]

no. if u beat your woman she will poison you. and no more make babbies.
beating your kid traumatizes him and makes him dead inside. this hardens him and prepares for his future harsh life on the rivers and lakes, where he will have to take a head as his initiation.
the laws of the jianghu says prostitues, exiled prisoners, and monks are forbidden to be killed. but u can attack farmers and fishermen. in the world of the jianghu, only the strong survive.

This is good news. I live in Kansas, and there's a lot of farmers here.

What's the protocol for a hooker who fishes?

[bawang]

stop trolling. hookers dont fish

[bawang]

has anyone thought what if a sfiu taught actual chinese martial morality

``hello class, today i will teach you about our traditional values. we pledge to drive out the furry ones and bring glory to the qing emperor.`also we swear an oath to never reveal this art to the hairy bald donkeys. at the end of the world spirit soldiers will come out of the sky and avenge our ancestors. long live the divine boxers. long live chinese jesus hong xiu quan

kung fu today is just some medieval reenactment, some make believe playtime with some cardio boxercise. people imitate the movements but inside theyre empty

[SoCo KungFu]

stop trolling. hookers dont fish

I don't know. Seems they have a market for it here:
http://hookersfishingholidaysthailand.com/

[KC Elbows]

I don't know. Seems they have a market for it here:
http://hookersfishingholidaysthailand.com/

I say play it safe. While they may be fishing, they are still hookers, so no killing them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Those crazy Thais !!
They know what is what !!

[David Jamieson]

Those crazy Thais !!
They know what is what !!

well, a lot of their "girls" have *****es, so maybe they know what is what, but the tourists sure don't half the time at least! lol

[KC Elbows]

Those crazy Thais !!
They know what is what !!

At least at that resort, there's a chance they're talking about her fishing rod.

A slim chance, but a chance nonetheless.

[sanjuro_ronin]

well, a lot of their "girls" have *****es, so maybe they know what is what, but the tourists sure don't half the time at least! lol

This is where I quote from Platoon:
"What are you saving up to be, Jewish?"
:D

[David Jamieson]

This is where I quote from Platoon:
"What are you saving up to be, Jewish?"
:D

lol, I don't have to save! I just converted the values over!
bwahahahaa.

these days, I am quite gnostic in my relationship with god.

we're tight, it's all good. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol, I don't have to save! I just converted the values over!
bwahahahaa.

these days, I am quite gnostic in my relationship with god.

we're tight, it's all good. :)

Just keep an eye out for the "Thai Surprise" that's all and watch out for the "Terceira Perna" if you are ever in Brasil.
:D

[David Jamieson]

Just keep an eye out for the "Thai Surprise" that's all and watch out for the "Terceira Perna" if you are ever in Brasil.
:D

:)
Terceira Perna
http://spa.fotolog.com/photo/10/13/35/ktulodown/1197747705_f.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

BBWWAHHHHH !!!
Nice one.

[PalmStriker]

Humans have been fighting ever since they could be called "humans". Some day that may change.

[Hardwork108]

:)
Terceira Perna
http://spa.fotolog.com/photo/10/13/35/ktulodown/1197747705_f.jpg

Hey David, is that your Tae Kwon Do master?:D

[shaolinboxer]

"The purpose of all martial art is an end to fighting." - Shizuo Imaizumi

[David Jamieson]

"The purpose of all martial art is an end to fighting." - Shizuo Imaizumi

This is true.

[Dragonzbane76]

so true some here don't believe it....:p

[David Jamieson]

so true some here don't believe it....:p

Many don't.

But maybe it's because they don't realize that they have the power to stop violence already. :p

[Violent Designs]

Frank, the problem is (I would assume it is an internal one stylistically speaking) some of these people who propose that martial arts or Chinese martial art specifically is/should-be more or less about the "spiritual" aspect and that violence/violent nature of martial arts should be an undertone below that. I believe some of these guy's styles/systems may not have been created for violent altercations e.g. REVOLUTIONS and such. Perhaps I am wrong, but this is just one example I can think of.

For example Ueshiba Morihei, the founder of Aikido was pretty much a pacifist and created his own system based on the ideals and philosophies he held were TRUE. I respect that, he has absolute faith in his personal ideologies regarding how people should behave and how martial arts should reflect his preferences.

Personally I completely disagree, but remember, you and I are students of CLF, this is a system that was designed for massive amounts of turmoil, war, and bloodshed. There is nothing "fun" about learning CLF circa 200 years ago when most likely your destiny in life is to go out, fight, kill, and eventually be killed.

Hence the way our Sifus taught us, were based on those original ideologies, extremely militant, violent, and frankly unsightly methods. But for us two, at least, denying the archetypal nature of CLF as something OTHER than the personification of violence is something that I feel as "IMPURE" if you catch my drift.

And to teach it as otherwise, is a b4stardization of the art.

Maybe White Crane grew out of some monk's philosophizing regarding self defense and how to not hurt ppl as much as possible; I don't know, I don't study the system. But this is a brief explanation regarding Frank's viewpoint, something I share in this discourse, and my opinions on why different people from varying backgrounds feel the way they do.

enjoy

[David Jamieson]

ok, in another way of saying it.

You don't train martial arts to start fights, you train so you can end them as quickly as possible.

:)

sometimes all it takes is a word or two.

[bawang]

this is caused by people's different perception of culture. in america, if a man says he says he believes in god, but does cocaine and takes it up the ass, hes not religious, but hes "spiritual".

spirituality in the chinese martial art world is one with racism and chinese nationalism and . they are one and the same. spiritual fulfillment in chinese kung fu world is vengeance. which not many kung fu people even in china understand.

[David Jamieson]

this is caused by people's different perception of culture. in america, if a man says he says he believes in god, but does cocaine and takes it up the ass, hes not religious, but hes "spiritual".

spirituality in the chinese martial art world is one with racism and chinese nationalism and . they are one and the same. spiritual fulfillment in chinese kung fu world is vengeance. which not many kung fu people even in china understand.

There is nothing specifically in the bible about cocaine and I don't think there's anything about taking it up the ass either.

I think there is an implied no no no about gayness in Leviticus of teh old testament, but it's been said, it's not what goes into a man that defiles him, it's what comes out. :p

I think you're too hard on the chinese. They've been on a long weird trip for thousands of years and teh world has changed hard on them in only the last century or so.

Wait til they catch up and then we're all in the soup. wait and see.

everybody worried about sharia law, wait until you live in china world™!

coming soon to a planet near you. :D

[Hardwork108]

this is caused by people's different perception of culture. in america, if a man says he says he believes in god, but does cocaine and takes it up the ass, hes not religious, but hes "spiritual".

spirituality in the chinese martial art world is one with racism and chinese nationalism and . they are one and the same. spiritual fulfillment in chinese kung fu world is vengeance. which not many kung fu people even in china understand.

Dave Ross, what I can't figure out is your love and hate relationship with China. Why make such false statements and untrue assumptions about "spiritual fulfillment in chinese kung fu world"?

What are you trying to achieve? Or what are you trying to convince people? That there is no morality in Kung fu and because of that we should all take up Kick Boxing, because it is more "functional"?

I have seen some desperate marketing in my time, but yours takes the cake......:rolleyes:

[Violent Designs]

bawang is not david ross... ross is an American dude, bawang is Chinese.....