Rock Bottom?

[Pork Chop]

Update:
Been a rocky year.
After hitting gold's 120 times last year and getting my refund, by March I pretty much stopped going. I got up to 255lbs and then started weight watchers around April. That was going pretty well, until I started working on base. Still, in 2 months I dropped down to the mid 220s.

This summer really killed me. I've driven to Houston 6 times in the last 8 weeks (7+ hours round trip). I'd kinda kept the weight watchers going until around June, when they cancelled my meeting, and tracking my points at home (not allowed to at work) became too much of a hassle. Basically, if my wife has time to cook on saturday or sunday, i eat well during the week, otherwise, it's total disaster as I'm scrounging for food.

Work out wise, i was working out at my friend's mma gym (the btt gym) until I got overheated one day in July, puked all over the place, and haven't gone back.

I only got back up to the mid 230s as of 2 weeks ago.
Tried working out at home, that went okay for a few weeks.
Lots of jumping rope, bodyweight exercises, and cardio on my new elliptical.

Then I joined bodybuilding.com and tried tracking my workouts - total, epic fail.
Their system is too rigid, takes longer to try to wedge my workouts into their format than it would to just type it out.
Last week I don't think I worked out at all.

So, rather than drink & eat myself into Bolivia, i'm trying to stop the downward spiral.

Tonight I hit Gold's again for the first time in forever.

I took it very slow:

15 min warm up on arc trainer
dynamic stretching for at least 10 different exercises, alternating between standing & on the ground.
lifted:
bench (the bar) 4sets 10reps
squats (the bar) 4sets 10reps - legs started to cramp
bent row (the bar) 4sets 10reps
deadlift (the bar) 4 sets 10 reps

Trying to establish a good workout habit right now, so i feel like it doesn't matter what i do as long as i do something for the next month or two.

The goal right now is jumping rope & calisthenics at home before work, cardio warm up & weights with maybe some bag work at gold's after work

check back in later with more.

[IronFist]

You got a refund from Golds because you went 120 times? I'm confused.

[David Jamieson]

dude, keep at it!

you'll get a rhythm that you can stick with.

the biggest leap is the mental one to the commitment to work on your physical self diligently and daily.

have you gotten dietary advice and a workout plan to match it?

If not, I really recommend you invest the 100bucks if you got it into Tony Horton's P90x and stick with one of the three programs and dietary plans offered.
it's probably the best cheap PT you can get.

follow that 90 day plan and you'll be super happy with the results.

[sanjuro_ronin]

David makes a good suggestion, some people do real well with PX90.

The thing is that most, if no all, ST programs work based on the belief that is ALL you are doing, when you add MA training to the mix, that changes a lot, especially the long term goals.

[kfman5F]

I knew a guy who lost a lot weight, without exercise, by not eating and only drinking water after 7 pm.

[Oso]

dude...


P90X seems to be pretty good if you can stick with it. I've heard he's an ex-crossfitter who had problems with CFHQ. Don't know that for sure. The martial stuff is supposed to be 'kempo' based.


I went with CrossFit after basically shelving martial arts because it offered structure and a similar 'all-out' attitude that fit me. I've got my issues with it and this specific gym for sure, but, you might look in to it if you are having trouble getting motivated.

it seems to me that anyone who has been a long term martial artist benefits from a class structure.

about the only thing i can motivate my self to do regularly is ride...everything else, i need or prefer someone telling me what to do and to stop slacking.

mayhaps you need the same?

[Pork Chop]

Thanks guys!


You got a refund from Golds because you went 120 times? I'm confused.

sorry for being confusing, I got a refund from my insurance company for going to Gold's 120 times.


dude, keep at it!

you'll get a rhythm that you can stick with.

the biggest leap is the mental one to the commitment to work on your physical self diligently and daily.

have you gotten dietary advice and a workout plan to match it?

If not, I really recommend you invest the 100bucks if you got it into Tony Horton's P90x and stick with one of the three programs and dietary plans offered.

My main priority is the mental commitment you mentioned towards re-establishing a strong daily habit of fitness and nutrition - without going overboard. What I mean is that I have to be a bit more casual these days, because I'm still working on my masters and a bunch of certifications for work (got a big one Aug 28).

I've given a lot of thought to P90x. I think I've got an "electronic" copy somewhere on my HDD and I was thinking about buying it. The $100 is a bit of an issue lately. It's something I may still do, I'm not sure yet. For the short term I'm just trying to re-establish a fitness foundation with my boxing and weight workouts.

Diet-wise, I'm still mainly following what I was doing on weight watchers, with maybe a few extra calories here and there. It was tough before, because the total amount you're allowed to eat goes down as your weight goes down and it just wasn't enough for me to significantly ramp up my workouts. I was eating enough to be sedentary, not enough to work out. This is why I started phasing it out as I started hitting the mma gym earlier this summer.

This time around, I'm just adding enough food to feel comfortable - if I'm walking around hungry all the time then I know I've overdone it and from weight watchers I've learned to understand the feeling of when I've eaten too much.

The biggest influence to me diet-wise is whether or not my wife has time to cook. I can't really do it without her, otherwise I'm scrambling for food and I end up picking something up. Working Sun through Wed, 12pm to 10pm, with work over 30 min away. If I go to the gym I don't get home till midnight and don't get to bed till 2. Just not a lot of time for cooking.


it seems to me that anyone who has been a long term martial artist benefits from a class structure.

about the only thing i can motivate my self to do regularly is ride...everything else, i need or prefer someone telling me what to do and to stop slacking.

mayhaps you need the same?

The biggest thing I'm finding is that I really miss having a workout partner.
After that, I think doing the same thing over and over every single day gets a little stale.

For me, it's really a balancing act - trying to make sure I'm doing enough to lose weight versus overdoing it. I tend to fall into overdoing it; which for me can be anything like hitting it too hard in a single workout (lifting so heavy i get injured or overheating in the kickboxing gym) or getting on a hot streak and not pacing myself (going 5 or 6 days in a row because it feels "good" and then taking a week off to recuperate).

I've looked into Crossfit a bunch of times. Here, there are multiple Crossfit gyms. The main one I priced out was 120~130 a month and I was told that it was one of the cheapest in the area.

I don't like the idea of doing Crossfit on my own because I have to substitute so many of the exercises that there's almost no point of the WOTD. First, I don't feel like I'm doing the real workout. Second, even with recommended substitutions it's too much time and effort to do the calculations every single day to replace the exercises with ones that I can actually accomplish.

Definitely leaning more to P90x as far as those two, because I just can't afford the Crossfit gym in order to experience the classroom atmosphere.



The thing is that most, if no all, ST programs work based on the belief that is ALL you are doing, when you add MA training to the mix, that changes a lot, especially the long term goals.

This is a real good point.
It's also reminds me of some flaws I've found with the old way I was doing things.
I'm starting to think it's a bad idea to mix weights and intense cardio (ma workouts) on the same days - unless one or both is scaled back significantly from what I'm used to.
Before I was trying to do 2 hour muay thai classes the same day I was lifting in the gym for an hour.
Especially now that I'm forced to be more casual in my approach, I think it's necessary to keep them on separate days or at least scale one or both back significantly if I'm going to mix them.

[Pork Chop]

So I'm up early this morning because I hadn't seen my kid since Sunday morning and I really missed the little guy.

In general, I'm trying to stay off the computer as much as possible during the work week. The reason for this is because my time is very tight as it is and I feel like i have more hours in the day to get things done.

Tues Aug 10
Talked to my buddy that owns the mma gym at work.
Turns out he's in a similar predicament to me- we work the same schedule and both have insomnia. He's started hitting the gym after work these days.
After work I met him up at his gym.
Still trying to take it slow, just to get into the habit of doing something.

jump rope 3 rounds of 3 min.
-between rounds, during 1 min rest, did usual calisthenics routine: 10 pushups, 10 crunches, 10 bicycle crunches, 10 leg lifts

shadow boxing 3 rounds of 3 min.
-focused on loosening up.

heavybag 5 rounds of 3 min.
-first 3 rounds were hands & feet, 4th was just boxing, and 5th was knees

nice and tired after that, I came home, took a shower, watched some tv while I took my vitamins and went to bed.

So, as I said in my last post, I think I'm going to alternate kickboxing days with weight days so workouts don't get stale and so my body can hold out for the long haul. It's all about establishing a habit, not pushing my body to see what it can handle.

Weightlifting-wise, I've been leaning more towards the traditional bodybuilding/hypertrophy route. My goals lately aren't so much performance-related and the bb (4 by 10) paradigm is decent for laying a foundation. This doesn't mean a lot of isolation work, however.

Got a program off of bodybuilding.com but not sure i'm going to use it.
Coworker's a former competitive bodybuilder and he's been giving me advice.
Both programs are somewhat similar: big compound movements, take it slow, remove the ego, be consistent.
The main difference is that my coworker's plan is pretty open-ended and the bodybuilding.com plan's 6 exercises a day, 3 day split.
I may just work up to the bodybuidling.com workout, we'll see.

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is a real good point.
It's also reminds me of some flaws I've found with the old way I was doing things.
I'm starting to think it's a bad idea to mix weights and intense cardio (ma workouts) on the same days - unless one or both is scaled back significantly from what I'm used to.
Before I was trying to do 2 hour muay thai classes the same day I was lifting in the gym for an hour.
Especially now that I'm forced to be more casual in my approach, I think it's necessary to keep them on separate days or at least scale one or both back significantly if I'm going to mix them.

If you want strength gains and want to sustain them, I would suggest NOT doing MA and ST on the same day, unless you can do them at different times ( morn and eve) and the MA is very light and NOT intense.
ST is very taxing and doing ST one day and MA after will cut into your gains or possibility of gians, I would suggest doing ST on a day that you have a rest day the next day after ST.
Possible scehdule"
Mon: MA
Tues: ST
Wed: rest
Thur: MA
Fri: ST
Sat: Rest

The ST protocol must be based on your goals for ST, so you have to be clear on what those are.

[David Jamieson]

Hey here's some good tips for staying motivated from Divine Caroline. :)


1. Always exercise on Monday. This sets the psychological pattern for the week. Along the same lines …

2. If at all possible, exercise first thing in the morning. As the day wears on, you’ll find more excuses to skip exercising. Get it checked off your list, first thing.

3. Never skip exercising two days in a row. You can skip a day, but the next day, you must exercise, no matter how inconvenient.

4. Give yourself credit for the smallest effort. My father always said that all he had to do was put on his running shoes and close the door behind him. Many times, by promising myself I could quit ten minutes after I’d started, I got myself to start—and then found that I didn’t want to quit, after all.

5. Think about context. I thought I disliked weight training, but in fact, I dislike the guys who hang out in the weight-training area. Are you distressed about the grubby showers in your gym? Do you try to run in the mornings, but recoil from going out in the cold? Examine the factors that might be discouraging you from exercising.

6. Exercise several times a week. If your idea of exercise is to join games of pick-up basketball, you should be playing practically every day. Twice a month isn’t enough.
7. If you don’t have time to both exercise and take a shower, find a way to exercise that doesn’t require you to shower afterward. Twice a week, I have a very challenging weight-training session, but the format I follow doesn’t make me sweat. (Some of you are saying, “It can’t be challenging if you don’t sweat!” Oh yes, believe me, it is.)

8. Look for affordable ways to make exercising more pleasant or satisfying. Could you upgrade to a nicer or more convenient gym? Buy yourself a new iPod? Work with a trainer? Get a pedometer to keep track of your walking distances? Exercise is a high life priority, so this a worthwhile place to spend some money if that helps.

9. Think of exercise as part of your essential preparation for times you want to be in especially fine form—whether in performance (to be sharp for an important presentation) or appearance (to look good for a wedding) or mood (to deal with a stressful situation). Studies show that exercise does help.

10. Remember one of my favorite Secrets of Adulthood, courtesy of Voltaire: Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Don’t decide it’s only worth exercising if you can run five miles or if you can bike for an hour. I have a friend who scorns exercise unless she’s training for a marathon—so she never exercises. Even going for a ten-minute walk is worthwhile. Do what you can.

11. Don’t kid yourself. Belonging to a gym doesn’t mean you go to the gym. Having been in shape in high school or college doesn’t mean you’re in shape now. Saying that you don’t have time to exercise doesn’t make it true.

[Pork Chop]

If you want strength gains and want to sustain them, I would suggest NOT doing MA and ST on the same day, unless you can do them at different times ( morn and eve) and the MA is very light and NOT intense.
ST is very taxing and doing ST one day and MA after will cut into your gains or possibility of gians, I would suggest doing ST on a day that you have a rest day the next day after ST.
Possible scehdule"
Mon: MA
Tues: ST
Wed: rest
Thur: MA
Fri: ST
Sat: Rest

The ST protocol must be based on your goals for ST, so you have to be clear on what those are.

I think that's a really good idea, thanks!
I'm going to try out that protocol next week.


Hey here's some good tips for staying motivated from Divine Caroline. :)

Lots of good wisdom in those rules.
My biggest worry is collapsing & falling off the Thursday through Saturday I'm not at work - even Sunday's kinda up in the air because even the 24hr gym has funky hours on Sunday.

[Pork Chop]

Wed 8/11
Back to Gold's today.
My legs are burnt from monday so I wasn't going to be hitting it hard.
Think I"ve decided my weight days will look like this:
cardio, dynamic flexibility, one push, one pull, and something for legs

cardio warm up - 20 min on arc trainer
dynamic flexibility - starting to settle on a routine, alternating standing & lying
push - assisted dips, 10plate assist, 10 reps for 4 sets
pull - assisted pull/chin ups - 15 plate assist, 10 reps for 2/2 sets (4 total) - last set tough
legs - kettlebell swings - 35lb kettle bell, 10 reps for 4 sets

One of the reasons I think I'll end up following SJR's advice is that after weight days I often feel "out of steam", which is not typically the case for kickboxing/muay thai days. We'll see how I feel tomorrow. I was kinda hoping for a 3 day weightlifting split, so i may sneak in a lighter morning workout on sundays.

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you want to priortize MA over ST BUT still get some benefit from ST, you need to focus on the compound moves, but since you have less time and less days and recovery is crucial, you may end up having only one ST work out, but if you cna fit 2 in a week, that is great.
You don't need more than 45 min to hit your whole body, if you don't **** around too much.
Studies have shown that a 30 or 45 sec rest between sets is all that is needed, unless you are working in the 95% Max range.
Here is the thing though, you need to change it up every 4-6 weeks.
I suggest 4 weeks because it is easier to track, but 6 is ideal.
The rep and set scheme you need to follow is dictated by what you are going for.
If you wanna work muscular endurance, do the high volume routines:
moderate weight - 12-15 reps ( 20 for lower body) and 4-5 sets.
For
hypertrophy there are many types as I am sure you know and for Pure strenght you work the low reps with high weight for minimal sets - five sets of 3-5 reps for example.

There are many protocols and ALL of them work depending on how well YOU fit in with them.
HIT works, 5x5 works, supersets, giantsets, circuit, etc, etc.
They all work IF done the way they are suppose to.

[KC Elbows]

Just to play a sort of devil's advocate here, as I don't think there's one right way for you, and I would hardly be the one to decide it.

But, given that you have limited time from life and all, you don't have room for a ST program that is constantly escalating, so maybe you need something more to maintain than to gain.

When this time passes, and you have time again, your body will still respond like any other body to ST.

On the flip side, when one has limited time, a focus on increasing one's skills requires exactly that, focus, and, since working fighting skills hardly favors being less fit, and since, when you are done with this busy time, then you would have more skills that would benefit once you had more time for ST, whereas, on the converse, if you focus more on ST, once you're done you have strength, and some skill, but not as much.

I'm not assuming you haven't thought of all of this, just typing away.:D

When I had limited time(due to my step-son's youth and working on marriage, etc), I focused on skills but did a decent ST routine, though not great. Once the rush was over, ST was easy to jump into and a nice change, but I was always happy about the focus on skills, because they take longer for some of us, and I'd gotten a lot done. Plus, I like fighting more than lifting by a long shot.

Especially if you're trying to get your diet under control, adding substantial ST makes that difficult. Even regular training can make that difficult. Don't make too much of it, though: we tend to figure it out over time. I'm about four years out from the point where I just hit my stride as far as diet, and I was pretty extreme, so you're just fine.

Please don't take anything I say here as me saying "I know more than you." If experience is anything, I know some things you don't and you know some I don't. I like reading your posts, so I thought I'd put my thoughts in here in case they were any help. Ignore and accept what you wish, I'm not made of sugar.

[Frost]

Wed 8/11
Back to Gold's today.
My legs are burnt from monday so I wasn't going to be hitting it hard.
Think I"ve decided my weight days will look like this:
cardio, dynamic flexibility, one push, one pull, and something for legs

cardio warm up - 20 min on arc trainer
dynamic flexibility - starting to settle on a routine, alternating standing & lying
push - assisted dips, 10plate assist, 10 reps for 4 sets
pull - assisted pull/chin ups - 15 plate assist, 10 reps for 2/2 sets (4 total) - last set tough
legs - kettlebell swings - 35lb kettle bell, 10 reps for 4 sets

One of the reasons I think I'll end up following SJR's advice is that after weight days I often feel "out of steam", which is not typically the case for kickboxing/muay thai days. We'll see how I feel tomorrow. I was kinda hoping for a 3 day weightlifting split, so i may sneak in a lighter morning workout on sundays.

A wise man once said to me 1) you wont do anything unless you enjoy it, and 2) planning everything around your rests days is the most important thing to do.

If you really want to put a third day in make it light cardio, this will help your recovery and weight loss goals without harming the rest of your training. DO machine based light weights in a circut fashion, something to get your HR up and your muscles flushed with blood.

If you are going to do full body training sessions start with the legs first, then do the upper body stuff, dont work the legs with the back tired, even light this will really be a bad idea

[No_Know]

Thursday through Saturday include part of a Hsing-Yi form or practice. We met once in Washington DC and you were matching first in the ring then we ended-up covering part of upstairs. You let me try a technique of seven strikes. I thought your stamina was great--you didn't seem to tire while I felt the wear. We kept going except for time but you were strong and fit. It showed me what I couldn't know on my own of how durable someone might be.

I think something meditative but functional would round what you are going through right now.

You're getting a Master's degree. You've a son. Home cooking that happens on the weekend that can be doled out throughout the week, also pre portioned meats for small nightly cook sessions--pork chops and fish ar quick cooks. Two bites of a few things at night and warm/hot water five minutes after the last bite of the night (the whole have to go to t he bathroom thing to help you wake. The light eating to nourish you with out having it sit long in your stomach/intestines. I am liking massage of the gut-abdomin-stomach-ribs. My Squirrel comprehend is that the muscles after a minute or so of vigorous light touch brushing/rubbing does what I'll call activates the muscles and stuff to gently work while you sleep doing fitness stuff I might think.

Squirrel think-rub the xiphoid process near the throat half, to increase the metabolism for higher functioning digestion...my Think. It'll be fine.

No_Know

[Pork Chop]

If you are going to do full body training sessions start with the legs first, then do the upper body stuff, dont work the legs with the back tired, even light this will really be a bad idea

Yeah I normally follow this, my legs were still sore that day, originally I wasn't even sure if I'd be able to do legs, so I just threw in some kbells at the end.
Doing deads and squats together on the first day was a mistake imho.

[Pork Chop]

Thursday through Saturday include part of a Hsing-Yi form or practice. We met once in Washington DC and you were matching first in the ring then we ended-up covering part of upstairs. You let me try a technique of seven strikes. I thought your stamina was great--you didn't seem to tire while I felt the wear. We kept going except for time but you were strong and fit. It showed me what I couldn't know on my own of how durable someone might be.


Thanks man, I'm flattered. :)



I think something meditative but functional would round what you are going through right now.

This has crossed my mind as well.
I still haven't been able to kick the tobacco habit completely.
Not a daily smoker, more like one or two days a week, but it's terrible for me.
I've been wanting to do something meditative, out doors to help fix my breathing; especially with all this stress.


Home cooking that happens on the weekend that can be doled out throughout the week, also pre portioned meats for small nightly cook sessions--pork chops and fish are quick cooks. Two bites of a few things at night and warm/hot water five minutes after the last bite of the night (the whole have to go to t he bathroom thing to help you wake. The light eating to nourish you with out having it sit long in your stomach/intestines.

I think I get you here.
My wife cooks small, healthy portions for me from some healthy cookbooks when she cooks. I know I could sacrifice a little more sleep in the mornings to get up earlier and prepare something to eat, but it's hard - I'm not a great cook.
What I've found is that I can do dishes & other chores for my wife when I am home so that she has more time to cook, so far this has worked out well.
I try not to eat much in the evenings before bed; this usually only happens when i'm already doing something bad like drinking.


Squirrel think-rub the xiphoid process near the throat half, to increase the metabolism for higher functioning digestion...my Think. It'll be fine.


Massage to aide digestion, that's something to think about....

[Pork Chop]

Sunday, August 15
Was sore & achy at the end of last week.
Wrote a paper on thursday, took a final on friday, went to our friend's kid's birthday on saturday.
Stayed out of the gym those days.
Gave me a nice opportunity to heal up and feel fresh again.
Went to bed around 10~10:30 last night (super early for me).
This morning I woke up at 7.
Got to the gym around 9:30am.

did a hybrid workout:

arctrainer warm up - 50% resistance, 5 incline, 20 min
dynamic flexibility - standing & lying for about 10 total exercises of 10(s or reps)

lunges - olympic bar, alternating, 4 sets, 10 reps each leg
overhead press - olympic bar, 4 sets, 10 reps
wide grip pull up - 14plate (78lb) assist, 4 sets, 10 reps - seemed to go quick, had this weird feeling it might've only been 3 sets, but i could've sworn i counted 4

jump rope - 3 rounds, 3 min, rests = 10 x (pushups, crunches, bicycles, leg lifts)
bag work - 3 rounds, 3 min, last 30s of last round was skip knees

gonna see how sore i am after today.
if it's not bad & I don't feel run down, I'll do MA on mon and weights again on tues, with wed off. Don't really want to go 3 days straight, but I have some sins to repent for after this weekend.

My priority i guess is weight loss and general fitness.
Not looking for any serious strength gains.
At the moment, as I said, trying to reestablish a good workout habit; from there I really need to clean up my diet again. My diet's not as bad as it once was and I'm not sure I want to go back to pure weight watchers strictness, but I can do a lot better than I've been doing.

As far as the tobacco stuff I was talking about, I have a ton of great reasons to quit (like my kid). I have a dental appointment in september with my dad, so that's some motivation to set a short term quitting goal.

[Pork Chop]

was at a conference in town all last week
didn't get home some nights until midnight.
gym just wasn't happening.
it's crunch time for my next cert (aug 28th)
start bootcamp on monday
may have to put the gym on hold for a bit
altogether this cert's cost me over $2000 out of my pocket thus far
so failure is not an option