deaf guy choked out [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Dragonzbane76

08-13-2010, 03:31 AM

David Jamieson

08-13-2010, 08:40 AM

I hope this company gets the sh!t sued out of them. Deaf guy walks out of a store and the alarm goes off (If you've ever worked in retail, it does this a lot for no reason) Security detail pretty much tackle him. The other deaf guy he's with tried frantically to show them the reciept but they just push him away.

I smell a big lawsuit. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fRv--C_vao

I can't make determinations about anything from a clip on youtube.
There were no previous circumstances shown and there is no counter argument given.

Bummer that this kind of thing happens at all. Why wouldn't security feel they have the authority to simply give the shoulder tap and ask questions first?

What is thee value in harming another human being over a small commercial item?
That's the startling part.

Dragonzbane76

08-13-2010, 08:49 AM

I could see the deaf guy turning and starting to wave his hands to try and communicate and then the guy taking him down because he thought he was being threatened.

my determination on it.

MasterKiller

08-13-2010, 08:51 AM

What is thee value in harming another human being over a small commercial item?
That's the startling part. Well, if it's a metal detector, they might be more worried about a handgun. Nevertheless, this was a clusterf@ck.

KC Elbows

08-13-2010, 08:59 AM

This just shows how unrealistic American Sign Language is.

Brazillian sign language BEGINS with a shivving.

It was adapted from Japanese Sign Language, in which you would hide in the tall grass the night before a conversation, and cut down the conversant before he or she could even say a word.

All of this, of course, came from China, where the deaf person would begin by calling you half cooked and then demand tribute or your feet would be cut off.

Iron_Eagle_76

08-13-2010, 10:39 AM

I spent eight years working Loss Prevention at a retail store, and I cant tell you this, the companies would rather lose a $50 dollar piece of merchandise than thousands in law suits that will arise because of a stupid move like this. This is one of the reasons security like this is going the way of the dinosaur, there are other preventitive measures one can take and are much less costly than some bonehead with a fake deputy badge trying to be a hard a**ss.

Lucas

08-13-2010, 10:44 AM

the guard shouldnt get physical unless the person is trying to flee and ONLY if they actully SAW the person shoplift. if they dont KNOW they stole something they arent supposed to freaking tackle them.

GeneChing

08-13-2010, 11:07 AM

As I've discussed before (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=469), I do volunteer work in psychiatric crisis intervention, specifically with adverse psychedelic reactions. We once had a patient required physical restraint who only spoke ASL. Fortunately, one of our vols was fluent in ASL too. Part of the reason that patient experienced such a bad trip was that it messed up the ability to communicate with ASL at first. But once we got the patient down and reduced stimuli, the ASL abilities were reestablished.

Of course, that's a very different scenario than this, but it just goes to show, you don't ever know. The average person on the street may have all sorts of hidden factors - anything from medical issues to packing heat. Always proceed cautiously and with awareness.

David Jamieson

08-13-2010, 11:16 AM

Always proceed cautiously and with awareness.

This is the same advice to give a ninja before attacking someone unawares! :p

GeneChing

08-13-2010, 01:25 PM

Lead with shuriken (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvdk-hh003.html) & always keep your tabi (http://www.martialartsmart.com/16-08.html) clean.

donjitsu2

08-20-2010, 10:01 PM

Now, we're not really sure what happened prior to the video being shot but I think it's reasonable to assume that Security over-reacted to the situation. Though I want to point out that the deaf guy wasn't being choked. If he were being choked he would have passed out. Because the deaf guy simply spent too much time in that hold for it to be a true “choke hold”. Rather it looked more like the security guard was simply using a neck lock with no real attempt to constrict breathing or blood flow (still NOT the best choice when trying to control a subject you aren’t trying to hurt).
A little patience could have gone a long way towards preventing this situation from turning into the cluster f*** it turned into. No need to go into “control and handcuffs” mode until the subject makes a serious attempt to flee (ie starts to run, not just taking a step back) or becomes a threat (acts out violently).
I worked in asset protection/loss prevention for years and it was my experience that most shoplifters would walk back calmly once you identified yourself as security. Those that ran never needed to be choked or struck because they were just trying to get away – there are better ways of gaining control over these people. The minority that decided to fight (rare) usually had to be dealt with a bit more forcefully and even then hitting people is frowned upon by management.

Dragonzbane76

08-20-2010, 10:08 PM

Lee Chiang Po

08-21-2010, 09:32 PM

Hey, I once jerked a guy with no legs out of his wheelchair and beat the $hit out of him. Beat him like a step child. But if you had been there and known him, you would have ran up and kicked him yourself a time or two.

Syn7

08-23-2010, 01:40 PM

security guards with minimal training who think they know how to grapple can be dangerous... its too bad they are paid peanuts because the industry is rife with inexperienced younger males... they really need more training, for the most part... time and time again i watch these ameteur takedown and restraints... they should be allowed to do that if they arent profficient in executing these manuevers properly and without such reckless abandonment for the perp... every year we get a few stories of someone dying from, usually a cop, but security or bouncers too, choking someone to death... dude is dying on the ground while they all chill at the end of the car and chat about their lives... meanwhile dude has a crushed windpipe and would have lived had they shown any concern whatsoever... and its not that i care about some scumbag that did something wrong then fought the police... its the ones that didnt deserve it that has my concern... and it happens way too much... its aggressive inexperience, obviously they didnt want the guy to die, that would mean trouble for them... they were just ignorant about thier abilities...

its frustrating...

i saw it a few days ago at the mall, some guy getting way more than he deserved and wasnt resisting... atleast not anymore than what is natural for someone being pushed too far... i mean, if somebody has you in a hammer lock with their knee in your back and they pull too far, you can help but try to lessen the stress to your arm and prevent serious injury... "stop resisting, stop resisting" its pretty sad... i havent been on the wrong side of the law since i was a kid, but it still makes me angry to see it directed to others... i have all the respect in the world for the officers that do a good job and have smarts and compassion allied to their hardness...

Syn7

08-23-2010, 01:41 PM

Syn7

08-23-2010, 01:47 PM

read today that the guy who applied the lock on the deaf dudes neck was suspended indefinitely. Also the deaf guy hired a lawyer and is sueing the hell outta that company....

another tid bit.... the deaf guy was arrested prior a couple time for shop lifting.......hummmmmmmmm....

yeah they could have handled all that a lil better dont ya think? usually if you stand tough infront of em and command them to sumbit, they will... the kid that shot that vid said nop such thing was attempted... it apears they takled him right away because he didnt react to their verbals from behind... pretty ignorant on their part... they should have rushed up and stood infront to get his attention whether he was deaf or not... but since he was deaf, it turns out this is what needed to happen to avoid the fiasco we saw there... its policy to be verbal and CLEARLY visable before contact is made... and hearing problems are a part of why that policy is in place... but mostly because it leaves no room for interpretation and the perp wont be caught off guard and is less likely to react violently... but we werent there for this one, so who knows, right... but if it is what that kid that filmed it says it was, then they are guilty...