How close is too close?

[Siu Lum Fighter]

So...I'm walking into Safeway up here in Portland OR and this big black truck seems to speed up to the crosswalk and brakes right in front of me. So I flash him a, "what the F are you doing," look. He does a head motion towards me and I then walk inside thinking nothing of it. Next thing I know this guy is stalking me inside the store and menacingly starts coming towards me. This guy was huge! He had tattoos of some Chinese kanji on his huge arms suggesting he was a martial artist or some MMA bonehead. He says something like, "I let you walk and you flash me a f***ing look!! Fu*k you!!" After finding myself backed up against a fruit stand and repeatedly telling him to, "get the fu*k away from me man," and him getting right up in my face, I pushed him. He tried to shoot in and take me down but I managed to stay just out of reach. He tried jabbing but I was still sidestepping and backing up, parrying his arm. Thankfully, that and me putting up my guard fully expecting I would soon be brawling in Safeway, made him back down (after some expletives and feinting like he was going to attack again).

I guess I need to get this off my chest because I'm still wondering if I was slightly in the wrong for initially pushing the guy. My martial arts is for defense! But I still can't help feeling I was justified because this guy was flexing right up on me. I try to make it my philosophy to never strike first but in that moment I was in danger of either getting punched or kneed in the balls, having my crown knocked out, or worse!! It was definitely a self-defense situation. When someone is that out for blood and there's absolutely no reasoning with them, hitting first and asking questions later seems justified.

I guess I made up for initiating the physical part of our conflict by avoiding him and his friend waiting for me in their truck out in the parking lot. Luckily I saw them first and I walked the other way going down a side street back to the house. A guy like that is not to be taken lightly. He could have been some ex-military tweeker with a gun (he had a crazy look in his eye) or some kind of Nazi. This sucks, I guess I'm making enemies up here in Portland.

[bawang]

r u sexy womans
say yes pls

[Shaolin]

Your first mistake was pushing him. If you can't de-escalate the situation verbally or let your ego go and just simply walk away; if you choose to attack do so with conviction. Pushing is for kids on playgrounds.

[tiaji1983]

I saw a video today on You Tube. unfortunately I do not have the link. A man who claimed Jesus taught him Kungfu was at a Karate Studio. One of the Karate students decided to make an example of the Kungfu guy. The "Master" was the one video taping the incident. The Kungfu guy obviously did not want to fight, and did not know what he was doing anyway. He had very little skill and was doing random movements it seemed he made up as he went along, and was obvioulsy a little off in the head. He kept telling the Karate guy he did not want to hit him. The Karate guy (a black belt) beat him down, the kungfu guy got in a couple good kicks which he shouldnt have got if the guy was a black belt... :rolleyes: But anyways, the Karate guy beat the kungfu guy down, and started stomping his head and neck. You could tell the Kungfu guy had a busted windpipe by the way he was breathing. Another student drug the Kungfu guy out by his feet leaving a trail of blood. Afterwords the "Master" filmed the trail of blood talking about how his student beat a Kungfu Master praising him. In the caption it said the Kungfu guy was found dead in a dumpster the next day. The Karate "Master" posted the video on his facebook or myspace, I forget which, and someone saw it and decided to press charges...

The point of that long drawn out story is we have to be careful. Sometimes what the mainstream considers "Wu De" is not the proper course. Your actions are your actions. Sometimes it is possible to walk away or talk your way out of it, but when you felt cornered by his aggressiveness, you pushed, there was no way to take that back. Who is to say your actions were wrong? Thats just what happened. Once he tried to shoot on you, or throw a punch, my personal opinion is you should've taken that as a threat to your life and acted accordingly. Luckily he backed down, but what if he didnt?... Either way, what happened happened. Just my 2 cents.

[Dragonzbane76]

hum... 6months ago called...


http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55130&highlight=jesus

[tiaji1983]

sorry new to the forum. Didnt get on the computer much till recently... Just used that video to make a point. :p

[Dragonzbane76]

no biggie. :p

[ShaolinDan]

I was taught that if you warn someone not to enter your personal space and they still do, then you have the right (and the imperative) to take action to protect yourself.
A push might not have been the best choice of technique, but it's hard to think clearly in those moments. (Seems like an ideal time for Chin Na if you're confident enough to use it).
Good for you for avoiding further trouble and getting out while you could...stupid people can be very dangerous. (Especially if their friends are with them).
I wouldn't worry too much about making enemies...guy probably gets in so many conflicts he'll forget all about this in a few days.

[SPJ]

a moment like this

walk away

oops,

these are titles of songs from kelly clarkson.

[Drake]

If walking away doesn't work, don't half-ass it. Bring the guy down.

[Lucas]

i live in portland too. im almost not suprised he bailed when u put up guard. portland does have a ton of mouthboxers like that. but you never know what someone is capable of. it is what it is, he probably didnt want to be punked in front of his friend so went to have words. saw he would have to solo you in the store so went out where he had back up. pretty common pu$$ ass mind set, i hate losers like that.

if u get a stalker i got ur back yo.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

:D"Kick his as**s Seabass!!"

In all seriousness, there is a time to fight and a time to walk away, if for no other reason than keeping yourself from being arrested. Sounds like the guy was a wack job or a mouth boxer. I think someone else said it but do one of two things, walk away or if you attack commit fully to it, stupid to push and do other childish things.

[Drake]

hum... 6months ago called...


http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55130&highlight=jesus

That's some messed up stuff.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I don't think you did anything wrong by pushing him, he was being threatening and aggressive...he tried assaulting you, your martial skills protected you, you didn't get hurt and walked away. You certainly could have or should have called the police when you them waiting for you outside...even going the other way could have put you in jeopardy.

Just remember his tattoos can't do his fighting for him! :D

[David Jamieson]

I don't think you did anything wrong by pushing him, he was being threatening and aggressive...he tried assaulting you, your martial skills protected you, you didn't get hurt and walked away. You certainly could have or should have called the police when you them waiting for you outside...even going the other way could have put you in jeopardy.

Just remember his tattoos can't do his fighting for him! :D

really? Tell it to my magician. Because my tattoos come to life, do my dirty work and then go back to hiding out in 2D on my body. :D

[SanHeChuan]

After finding myself backed up against a fruit stand and repeatedly telling him to, "get the fu*k away from me man," and him getting right up in my face, I pushed him.

You needed some verbal kung fu. Your words were a challenge to him.

Verbal De-Escalation Techniques for Defusing or Talking Down an Explosive Situation (http://www.naswma.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=290)

Since you reasonably believed this dude was going to attack you, you were within your right to defend yourself, and your defensive actions were well within the law. Since he was bigger you could have got away with more than you did. At least until your martial arts background came to light, in which case you would have been expected to stand in front of him deflecting all punches for five minutes before flying over the shelves to safety.


1. When do you have to yield the right of way to pedestrians in Oregon? (http://www.injurylaworegon.com/right-of-way-to-pedestrians.htm)

-When a pedestrian is crossing with a green light or WALK signal, or when the pedestrian has not cleared the crosswalk. You must give pedestrians the right away as soon as they step off of the curb.

-In a marked or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection with no traffic control devices, when the pedestrian is on your half of the road or so close that he or she is in a dangerous position

-When you cross a sidewalk, like when entering or leaving an alley, driveway or private road

-When you are making a left or right turn at any intersection, as soon as pedestrians step off of the curb

-When you are at a school crossing where there is a traffic patrol

[mooyingmantis]

You feel guilty for pushing him? I would have knocked him out and walked away as if nothing had happened. You sir are a kind soul.

[Yum Cha]

Throw yourself backward onto the table, like a soccer player in the penalty box, while he's saying to himself, "hey, I didn't touch the little wuss?! and all the people watching are saying 'what did that guy do to him?"

Then you come back with the goods, and end it. :D

I've pushed people a couple of times, not one big clearing push, but moving and pushing them along until they fall over or try to square up.

They either run away, or square up, in which case, its better than copping a sucker punch, and when the hands go up, you're green lit...

Its also a rather benign application of forcen in defense, should there be further ramifications down the track. You tried! Once again, it was he who escalated...

[Hebrew Hammer]

I wouldn't normally offer this advice, but seeing as I'm a closed door disciple of Bawang, I think it will be alright.

Should you find yourself in a similar situation again in a public place, try this Hebrew Hammer technique:

1) Pull your pants down
2) Start crying
3) Scream at the top of your lungs "Stop touching me Daddy!"

Its a crowd pleaser and guaranteed to make him rethink touching you in public.

It's never failed me, I'm undefeated in three states.

[Lucas]

but what is your counter if the aggressor likes it? do you go into a rape prevention state at that point?

[David Jamieson]

I wouldn't normally offer this advice, but seeing as I'm a closed door disciple of Bawang, I think it will be alright.

Should you find yourself in a similar situation again in a public place, try this Hebrew Hammer technique:

1) Pull your pants down
2) Start crying
3) Scream at the top of your lungs "Stop touching me Daddy!"

Its a crowd pleaser and guaranteed to make him rethink touching you in public.

It's never failed me, I'm undefeated in three states.

Wow! Bawang has trained you well! :p

[Yum Cha]

but what is your counter if the aggressor likes it? do you go into a rape prevention state at that point?

Hey, maybe you get lucky!

[ZenMindT]

Pushing him was the best thing you could have done. If some one is being agressive and they are within striking range how do know that is not there intention (to hit you that is). I for one am not going to wait and see what happens and hope I'm fast enough to stop his attack with my hands dangling by my side. You never know if someone has training or if there naturaly fast. Never under estimate anyone!!! You have no way of knowing if he was trying to get close enough to head butt you or knee you in the balls or somthing.

As if we all already didn't know, the world has alot of crazy people, so why would ever make the assumption that a man who follows you and yelling and screaming in public place won't do somthing when given the chance. I definatly wouldn't have turned my back on him.

If you want to walk a higher path, then yes, be like sheep. But the point of studying martial arts is so you can be a LION when you need to.

[Drake]

What does pushing do EXCEPT provoke?

[ShaolinDan]

Well, a push could create distance, buy time, and even put the aggressor out of striking range...
In theory anyway.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

I think I'm going to go with what ZenMindT and ShaolinDan said. Pushing him was like checking him and the rules of Shaolin dictate that one should check before hurting (which was something I considered), hurt before maim, maim before kill. In California the law says that the slightest mark on someone can justify battery. I don't think the laws up here are as stringent (you can own a machine gun in OR) but I'd still rather not find out what they are and follow my own personal rules. Besides, I've trained in Tai Chi quite extensively and my push probably wasn't just any "push". I pushed him with a great deal of force and made him fly back about five feet. He was pretty big and he had a lot of weight behind him so I was actually surprised I could push him back that much!

[Lucas]

look at it like this. you had your zone, he was in it, you used words to express where you were at and that he was in your space. words werent working. you had a threat in your face, so you shoved him, created space and readied for retaliation.

now you could have gone and beat his ass with an un ripe watermellon, but then you never know when hes going to come back at you with his friends.

a lot of times our reactions are just going to happen, your gut probably just took over.

oh ya and dont call it a push, call it a combat shove, that sounds way more hardcore. :p:p:p;):D