Public Statement from WHFYWCKFA

[JPinAZ]

I would like to share this post here to help address an increasing and ongoing 'issue' with misrepresentation of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun system as being 'Red Flag" (TWC has also been included in these misrepresentations).
This posting is a only from the Hung Fa Yi position:
http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2999

After reading this statement, I did a quick google search and found several examples of the deliberate misleading/misrepresentations of Hung Fa Yi being 'red flag'. Here is one of them:
http://mengsmartialarts.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=831ee6ee00fc7db18d06ead692614d 6e&topic=38.0
(also note this posting was edited a year after it was originally put up)

Here is the original post for this workshop which was written by Allen Kong of the Hung Fa Yi World HQ in San Francisco.
http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2707

As can clearly be seen, Allen's original write-up has no mention of this "Red Flag" BS. This is a clear example of a someone intentionally changing this posting by removing the words Hung Fa Yi and deliberately replacing them with Red Flag.
I don't know how many times it has to be said by HFY members: HUNG FA YI IS NOT RED FLAG!

[t_niehoff]

Oh, that Benny, what a prankster!

[Eric_H]

From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forgery

for·ger·y   [fawr-juh-ree, fohr-] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ger·ies.

1.
the crime of falsely making or altering a writing by which the legal rights or obligations of another person are apparently affected; simulated signing of another person's name to any such writing whether or not it is also the forger's name.

2.
the production of a spurious work that is claimed to be genuine, as a coin, a painting, or the like.

3.
something, as a coin, a work of art, or a writing, produced by forgery.

4.
an act of producing something forged.

5.
Archaic . invention; artifice.

[anerlich]

We would like to begin by clarifying that the WHFWCKFA cannot speak for the TWC Association's position

Um, there is more than one TWC association.

[JPinAZ]

Um, there is more than one TWC association.

Really? C'mon, I think you know what was mean't there.
But, I'll correct it to make it very simple for you... HFY doesn't speak for ANY other Wing Chun Associations (including ALL of TWC's, however many there may be) :)
But that's really not the point of the post anyway..

[anerlich]

But, I'll correct it to make it very simple for you... HFY doesn't speak for ANY other Wing Chun Associations (including ALL of TWC's, however many there may be)

If you are are going to get all uppity about being accurately represented, then practise what you preach.

[JPinAZ]

If you are are going to get all uppity about being accurately represented, then practise what you preach.

I'm not going to get into this with you, you're making a big deal over the misplacement of an friggin appostrophy. I'm sure William (who wrote the original post that I linked too) didn't purposely mean to mislead or misrepresent anyone from TWC by writing association's vs. associations'. I can't really speak for him but I'm betting he did't even know that TWC has more that one association when he wrote that (I sure didn't until you brought it up). It was most likely an honest mistake, I'll let him know about it. Thanks for the clarification

[Wayfaring]

Um, there is more than one TWC association.

I actually wasn't aware of this. The only TWC I'm aware of is represented by Sifus Redmond and Parlatti here. Does Sifu Spain represent another association?

At any rate, in all probability TWC doesn't identify with the "Red Flag" stuff either, it's just that the HFY secretary was trying to be polite and not speak for another WC family.

I actually don't completely understand what the significance of all this is, but suspect it has to do with the red/black flag groups in China currently being associated with the triads and criminal elements. So misrepresenting that history could have an impact on image. You guys correct me if I'm wrong on that.

[RB93SAAT]

Oh, that Benny, what a prankster!

The defence entered a plea of insanity.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Did this red flag business get started to make HFY sound more exciting and dangerous?

[CFT]

The way I read the "Red Flag" business was that it was a retro-fit of the HFY history in order to subsume it into the "new" Black Flag Eng Chun history.

Like Terence says it is quite a prank, but no one in HFY is laughing.

[RB93SAAT]

I did a quick google search and found these links

Wing Chun Article
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAyBn7Laic8

Some views on Wing Chun - Refuting the ulterior motive of the believers
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88994

[HumbleWCGuy]

I have always assumed that these histories are somewhat made up. IMO Meng isn't doing anything new as much as had made the mistake of contradicting other people's oral traditions.

I will say that we need to be careful about "official" Chinese history. Certainly a lot of it is undeniable truth, but China is run by tyrannical communists who like to control the flow of information. In some ways, "official" history only goes so far.

[anerlich]

I'm not going to get into this with you, you're making a big deal over the misplacement of an friggin appostrophy.

Apostrophe. And you need one after "friggin".


It was most likely an honest mistake

I'm sure it was. I pointed it out. The secretary and you are welcome.


The only TWC I'm aware of is represented by Sifus Redmond and Parlatti here. Does Sifu Spain represent another association?

Yes. the WWCKFA has had a fair number of people leave over the decades, some of whom have set up their own associations. Sifu Spain's association has schools in Australia and Europe. There may be others in the same position.

(I doubt he cares whether Benny wants to call him "red flag" or anything else. I haven't heard Phil. Victor or GM Cheung getting much upset about it either)

[Wayfaring]

(I doubt he cares whether Benny wants to call him "red flag" or anything else. I haven't heard Phil. Victor or GM Cheung getting much upset about it either)

These people better be careful or I will be forced to open up a can of THIS!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BgiYknN7L._SS500_.jpg

[taai gihk yahn]

I like to randomly read a thread in the WC forum just to remind myself that for all my mental instability, things aren't quite as bad as they seem;

so thanks for that reassurance;

[Wayfaring]

Apostrophe. And you need one after "friggin".


Hmmm. The Urban Dictionary seems to disagree with your spelling here.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=friggin

And it probably is noteworthy to point out that when your spelling is corrected by the Urban Dictionary while you are correcting another poster's spelling yourself,

That = FAIL

[anerlich]

That = FAIL

Friggin(') heck!

Dictionary.com has no entry for friggin, but has one for frigging. I stand by my earlier statements, though I tip my hat respectfully to your diligence and research skills.

[JPinAZ]

And I tip my hat to anerlich's proofing skills. Sheesh, I didn't know I had to watch my punctuation, spelling and grammar so much around here on a MA forum. Hey, I have some work docs that need proofing, should I send them over? :p

[Wayfaring]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile-ak-snc1/object3/586/125/n110697105277_8807.jpg

Strikes Again!!!!!!!

[Eric_H]

(I doubt he cares whether Benny wants to call him "red flag" or anything else. I haven't heard Phil. Victor or GM Cheung getting much upset about it either)

Actually, if memory serves right Victor, had some comments about TWC not being red flag either some time ago on this forum. I'm sure once Victor reads this thread he'll have his own comment on it.

from http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88994


The HKB oral history goes back to the burning of the Southern Shaolin Temple in the 1600s. According to their oral tradition, there were 5 secret societies that
were formed with the express purpose of fighting to overthrow the Qing
Dynasty. Each flag was sent to a different area of China. For example, the
Red Flag went to Canton while the Black Flag - the 1st lodge and most
important - stayed in the Fukien area, around the ruins of the Southern
Shaolin Temple


Funny, that out of what, 80 styles of "Shaolin Kung Fu" this is the first we hear of 5 flags?

Is there any record of a Black Flag/5 flags in Fukien Province? No.

Is there any record of Red Flag/5 flags in Canton? No.

Is there any record of Black Flag/Red flag/5 flags at all? Only as Bandits in Shandong.

That begs the question, if Red Flag doesn't exist as a secret society, what are the chances that black flag doesn't exist as one either?

[anerlich]

Actually, if memory serves right Victor, had some comments about TWC not being red flag either some time ago on this forum.

I agree with him. That said, I doubt either of us have lost a microsecond of sleep over the (non-)issue.

[anerlich]

Sheesh, I didn't know I had to watch my punctuation, spelling and grammar so much around here on a MA forum. Hey, I have some work docs that need proofing, should I send them over?

I don't think you can afford my rates (or for that matter, to take the risk).

[Ultimatewingchun]

"Actually, if memory serves right Victor, had some comments about TWC not being red flag either some time ago on this forum. I'm sure once Victor reads this thread he'll have his own comment on it." (Eric H)


i agree with him. That said, i doubt either of us have lost a microsecond of sleep over the (non)-issue.

.................................

***Amen to that.

[shawchemical]

Hmmm. The Urban Dictionary seems to disagree with your spelling here.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=friggin

And it probably is noteworthy to point out that when your spelling is corrected by the Urban Dictionary while you are correcting another poster's spelling yourself,

That = FAIL

Using the urban dictionary as a reputable source for spelling, or the existence of words = EPIC FAIL.

[Hendrik]

Let's get the chinese history straight and speaking with facts.




Is there any record of a Black Flag/5 flags in Fukien Province? No.

Is there any record of Red Flag/5 flags in Canton? No.


Is there any record of Black Flag army in Kwan Xi who is a part of Tien Die Hui?

YES




Is there any record of Black Flag/Red flag/5 flags at all? Only as Bandits in Shandong.



That Shandong black flag is not the Black Flag Army which is under TaiDei Hui or Hung Nun.


黑旗军历史

　　1857年，刘永福加入了广西天地会领导的农民起义军。后来其领导的黑旗军是天地会的一支，以七星黑旗 为军旗，故称黑旗军，基本成员是贫苦农民。19世纪60年代移到滇越边境一带，逐渐扩充到两千 多人；

Some one want to translate the above?

in fact the leader 刘永福 is a famous Chinese general who reside in Vietnam to fight the France army. Later the black flag army was in Taiwan fighting the Japanese invasion and sacrified....

the time line of this black flag army is late 1800 and early 1900.


黑旗军，中国十九世纪末的一支地方武装，以七星黑旗为战旗，因以得名。前期主要军事行动为抗击清朝统治。1 867年清军的进攻迫使黑旗军进驻保胜（今越南老街）。后在抗击法国侵略越南（中法战争）的战争中多次取得 胜利，将领刘永福（1837年—1917年）曾被越南国王授予三宣副提督之职。协同老将冯子材的部队，从根 本上扭转了战争形势，迫使挑起战争的法国茹费理内阁倒台。刘永福返回中国后被清廷下令解散。甲午战争中黑旗 军奉清政府命令重新编组，仍由刘永福率领，进驻台湾岛。后日军侵台，因战局受困，将士大多战死 。


This is the flag
http://baike.baidu.com/image/d68b65cbba2b8c20be09e68a

This is the leader
http://baike.baidu.com/image/310f3b1f396126f7a6866948

[Wayfaring]

Using the urban dictionary as a reputable source for spelling, or the existence of words = EPIC FAIL.

So where exactly do you research the meaning, usage and spelling of strictly slang terminology there Professor Shaw?

[Marcelo-RJ]

Benny Meng, oh, Benny Meng...
Benny Meng came to Brazil and taught a lot of nonsense under the "Hung Fa Yi" label. A lot of money was wasted by myself and my KF partners until we decided to stop learning his pseudo-HFY.
He did the same in the US: a lot of people over there have learned his fake HFY stuff.
And now he comes with that Black Flag BS, but people in Brazil and the US are still learning from him. Those people deserve a Benny Meng in their lives, as much as I and my friends deserved a Benny Meng in our lives as long as we agreed to pay him money for garbage.
Benny Meng will always be... Benny Meng - no matter where he is and what he's "teaching".

[t_niehoff]

Benny Meng, oh, Benny Meng...
Benny Meng came to Brazil and taught a lot of nonsense under the "Hung Fa Yi" label. A lot of money was wasted by myself and my KF partners until we decided to stop learning his pseudo-HFY.
He did the same in the US: a lot of people over there have learned his fake HFY stuff.
And now he comes with that Black Flag BS, but people in Brazil and the US are still learning from him. Those people deserve a Benny Meng in their lives, as much as I and my friends deserved a Benny Meng in our lives as long as we agreed to pay him money for garbage.
Benny Meng will always be... Benny Meng - no matter where he is and what he's "teaching".

And have you learned your lesson?

[Marcelo-RJ]

Well, I hope I have.
That's why we're here, in this world (or at least that's what I believe in).
All in all, I'm thankful for that opportunity that "life" gave me, of learning a little bit more about the human nature. And hopefully I'm now immune of "Benny Mengness".
Peace out!