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View Full Version : PROPER FIGHTING USING YOUR SYSTEMS TECHNIQUES



KUN-KANG
09-13-2000, 08:33 PM
HELLO ALL, I HAVE A MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT FIGHTING.I HAVE SEEN MANY PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT STYLES FIGHT AND ALMOST EVERY TIME WHAT I SEE IS MORE OF A KICKBOX TYPE OF THING,DONT YOU THINK THAT IF I DO MANTIS AND YOU DO HUNG SYSTEM AND SO AND SO DOES GOJU THAT AT LEAST WE SHOULD ALL LOOK A LITTLE LIKE OUR SYSTEMS WHEN WE FIGHT?? I MEAN I HAVE SEEN ONLY A FEW INDIVIDUALS WHO WHEN IT COMES TO FIGHTING THEY MOVE LIKE THEIR SYSTEMS AND MAN ITS BEAUTIFULL AND DEADLY I MEAN REAL KUNG FU OF OLD!! I HAVE SEEN THESE INDIVIDUALS FIGHT AGAINT KICKBOXERS WRESTLERS,AND MANY OTHER SYSTEMS USING WHAT I CALL CLASSICAL KUNG FU YOU KNOW THE TYPE THAT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE AN OLD SHAW BROTHERS MOVIE. MY QUESTION IS HOW DOES ONE REACH A LEVEL LIKE THAT? MUST ONE FIRST PRACTICE A LOT OF SAN SAO AND TWO MAN DRILLS WITH TWO MAN SETS AND THEN SLOWLY START SPARRING TRYING TO USE YOUR SYSTEMS MOVES OR WHAT? I HOPE THAT I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO BELEIVES THAT IF YOU DO KUNG FU YOU SHOULD LOOK LIKE A KUNG FU MAN WHEN YOU FIGHT. I WELCOME ALL SUGGESTIONS.

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ILL,RIP YOU A NEW A-HOLE!!

bamboo_ leaf
09-13-2000, 10:18 PM
train untill there is no diffreance between you and your style, then what ever you do will be a product of your style and training.

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enjoy life

bamboo leaf

8stepsifu
09-13-2000, 10:52 PM
No, Kickboxing is a sport. When I train for a kickboxing/sanshou match, I have to adapt my technique to the rules. I can't mantis grab, but I can still circle arms and get positioning for throwing while using combinations that will lead me to the throw/ hit or whatever. I don't bounce on my feet like a tkd fighter, I weave, sidestep and do my best to hit more that I get hit. If it looks like kickboxing..Good. Thats what I'm doing. The differences between fighting styles are very subtle if you take the image away. The best fighter in a kickboxing match is a kickboxer. Somone that trains specifically to kickbox. They are not as versitile as otherfighters, because they are specializing in a sport. I'm not saying that having overall ability wont make you a great kickboxer, you just need to concentrate on fighting for the match rather than no rules win at all costs fighting. Thats my take on it.

RAYNYSC
09-14-2000, 07:52 AM
Kun-Kang:
One of the biggest mistakes that a lot of Martial Artist tend to do is over look the PRINCIPLES that make up the ESSENCE of there PARTICULAR STYLE,ART OR WAY OF FIGHTING...
Thats why a lot of so called C.M.A. get there ass handed to them...

You know why? At least the way I see it,
It's because they haven't learned to make there ART or SYSTEM a part of them.

Look REGARDLESS of how many HOURS a DAY/WEEK you put in to it...
It'll mean nothing if you don't GRASP & UNDERSTAND the PRINCIPLES that make up the ESSENCE of your SYSTEMS WAY OF FIGHTING...

All you have to do is look at some of the REAL MASTERS OF CMA & you will see the difference between them & what we have now.

THEY NOT ONLY KNEW & UNDERSTOOD THE PRINCIPLES OF THERE CHOSEN ART! BUT WHERE ABLE TO EXPRESS IT & THAT MY FRIEND IS SOMETHING THAT'S NOT SEEN VERY OFFTEN NOW A DAYS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT...

PEACE /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


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RAYNYSC

[This message has been edited by RAYNYSC (edited 09-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by RAYNYSC (edited 09-15-2000).]

Rolling Elbow
09-14-2000, 08:32 AM
Ray, you put it into words man! You don't sudy techniques.., you learn to understand concepts and know where they apply as you move. Learning to move properly and recognizing where the concepts lie are the key...the great fighters of "old" just moved and allowed their minds and bodies feel where the next concept applied...they did not memorize.

loki
09-16-2000, 03:29 AM
Concepts and techniques should go hand in hand. They should not be separated. You may know a whole lot about concepts and theories but what happens when you don't know the techniques which incorporate those concepts ? For example, you can't teach someone mantis by having them memorize the 12 principles...hook, grapple, pluck, tag, lean, crush, etc. Or by saying you must feint high to hit low , or hit right to open the left. How do you go about doing these things? And how do you do them using mantis? The techniques must be learned in order to incorporate the concepts.

To me , people who claim to practise Kung Fu but do not use it when they fight are simply taking the easy way out. It is not easy to use real KF in a fight , that is a given. I believe that's the beauty of it. The word Kung Fu after all does imply achieving something through practise and hard work. Therefore it is not easy to use it. That is as it should be and that is what will give that person who can use it the advantage. After all, the majority of martial artists basically fight the same way. They jump up and down and kickbox. Throwing the basic punches and kicks. You can pretty much expect to know what will be coming at you. A jab? , A roundhouse ? Reverse punch? Front kick? Pretty much can see all that coming. When a KF fighter fights their opponent should have no clue what is coming at them beacuse unless they have studied the particular system the KF fighter is using they most probably have never seen those kinds of techniques and will have a hard time defending against them. Unfortunately , this is not done by many KF practitioners. Instead, they water down their systems by fighting the same way everybody else fights. Why fight somebody else's fight by fighting the same way they do? Force yourself everytime you get a chance to spar to use your style and eventually it will become easier and easier to use. Eventually it becomes a part of you.

NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT'S END ARE EVEN FEWER.

[This message was edited by loki on 09-16-00 at .]

bamboo_ leaf
09-17-2000, 01:51 AM
I would say that they are not taking the easy way out, if it it dosn't come out in thire fighting.

I would say that they don't really know it.

How can one train for so long and it not come out,
either incorrect training or they don't know it.

CMA, take more skill and understanding to train, boxing real boxing also takes a lot of skill and understanding. Most people are probbly more familure with the movements and usage of boxing but compared to a proffesenl or a good golden gloves they would not compare.

CMA arts cover more ground then boxing, and the movements are not something that people would commenly see in the west, so it takes awhile to be good at it and understand the usage.

Dose CMA look like CMA in fighting ? yes but again most CMA arts are desgined to end things in a couple of movements and these movements may not even be complet fully extended movements. You may miss it or not understand what you saw.


enjoy life

bamboo leaf

loki
09-17-2000, 04:25 AM
I can pretty much tell when someone is using KF techniques or just throwing haymakers and wild sloppy kicks with their head tucked down looking at the floor hoping something lands. Sad to say but I have seen this kind of "schoolyard fighting"
in several "all KF tournaments".

I agree that they simply may not know it. That is indeed a very large part of it. They are not taught how to actually use their styles for fighting. But again I have to say that they tend to take the easy way out. You see, everyone wants to learn everything today. They don't want to put the time and effort in that it takes to actually put what they learn to use and so therefore they do what is easier for them to do. This of course puts them at a disadvantage because then they become 2nd rate kickboxers. So then, neither can they use their KF nor can they kickbox so well because that is not what they are learning in class. Thus, they get beat down by those that actually can kickbox because that is what they really do.

NO ROAD IS AS LONG OR FILLED WITH AS MANY OBSTACLES AS THE ONE TRAVELLED BY THE CHINESE BOXER. FEW ATTEMPT TO TAKE IT . THOSE THAT REACH IT'S END ARE EVEN FEWER.

RAYNYSC
09-28-2000, 08:27 AM
Bingo!You hit the nail right on the head with that one Loki...
Hey all I'll say is this I glad that we ( Meaning everyone who has posted there reply here so far) can see eye to eye on one thing...

Which is as far as I can tell...

One has to not only LEARN & UNDERSTAND the PRINCIPLES that make up the ESSENCE of there way of FIGHTING...

One has to LEARN & UNDERSTAND the CONCEPTS & TECHNIQUES that make up the CORE of the SYSTEM'S WAY OF FIGHTING in order for them to be able to make there SYSTEM'S way of FIGHTING A PART OF THEM...

PEACE





RAYNYSC /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mantisstyle
01-14-2001, 09:03 PM
Hi!!!

Does anyone know the principles or concepts behind 7*prayng mantis kung fu??

Ta

BeiTangLang
01-14-2001, 11:32 PM
Yes Sir. There is a listing of principles & techniques in the praying Mantis section of this website. <A HREF="http://www.authentickungfu.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.authentickungfu.com</A>
There are other resources available, this is just the one we use at our school/kwoon.
-BTL

"If you eat bitter, you will taste bitter..."

seung ga faat
01-15-2001, 04:04 AM
These are all great replies but, the question that should be asked is why don't practioners believe that kung-fu works. My Sifu, Cheung
Wah once said to me most people who take kung-fu like kung-fu but, deep down they think that kung-fu is B.S. Before everyone starts posting think. If we think kung-fu is so good why do we always seek to change it by teaching and practising it from a sport point of view for example; teaching and practising fixed fight stances and positions, adding judo style throws and falls when kung-fu already contains it's own throwing,using boxing methods of training such as heavy bags and wraps instead of hanging sand bags and bare knuckles,learning moves without intent.... I could go on and on!
Praying Mantis is nothing without basic weapons conditioning and knowledge of the application of force and or force training and all of this is B.S. without belief. When you are alone with your attacker these three things along with heart is what makes the martial part of martial arts. With out these it's just dancing.... Like kung-fu this response is just one in the many possibles ones. :)

Thanx, Sifu Thomas

mantisstyle
01-28-2001, 01:45 PM
beitanglang.

hullo there!
I checked out authentic kung fu .It's a pretty good site .

Thanx for the recomendation
:)