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soulfist
08-25-2010, 11:26 PM
I saw this posted on another forum, but no Bak Mei people there so I thought Id bring it over here!


Ma Bo – Stance
A detailed analysis about the form and function of stances
Written by Siu Ting Fun 蕭挺勳 (Xiao Ting Xun)

The stance, this is the most important fundamental when training kung fu. Each type of hand technique, whether a block or strike, has a different requirement for and from the action of the stance that is somewhat different, and the effects are not alike.

Many martial artists today work hard to develop a strong firm stance, training it to maintain secure when delivering and receiving force. The stance however is not simply a static posture with stepping transitions; the stance should be lively, with many active functions and purposes. We thus distinguish between sei ma (dead stance) and woot ma (live stance). It is said that a novice will judge your hands, but a master will judge your stance! This is not about styles nor is it about internal vs external, but rather stages of development and ability in kung fu. It is thus the point of this discussion to explain the live characteristics, or “methods of activation” of the static postures.

The stances utilized in short striking techniques include:

• ngoi keem yeung ma – outer engaging yang stance
• loi keem yeung ma – inner engaging yang stance
• yi ji keem yeung ma – two toe engaging yang stance
• saam gok keem yeung ma – triangle engaging yang stance
• diu tai ma – hanging leg stance
• daan dip ma – single butterfly stance
• seung dip ma – double butterfly stance
• etc.

The focus of this discussion will be on the keem yeung ma which may be translated as “engaging yang stance”. Keem means “to clamp” or “to grip”, and yeung is Cantonese for yang as in yinyang. The meaning of this name and its purpose will be discussed.

A brief introduction and explanation of the 4 primary stances

外鉗陽馬 Ngoi Keem Yeung Ma - “outer engaging yang stance”
Start from the “but ding but baat” stance, which is the name of the static posture prior to activation. In this stance, the lead foot is turned slightly inward, and rear foot is open at 45 degrees, with the body’s weight distributed somewhat equally on both legs. The functional component of this stance comes from actively spiraling both knees outward pushing away from each other, which is accompanied by externally rotating, or opening the kua.

The spinal structure in this stance maintains a concave chest and convex lumbar with a sunken abdomen. This posture of the torso is known as hum hung but bui suk tou. The “outer engaging yang stance” makes it possible to use the latent force of the legs and the kua due to the active outwardly directed rotation, which triggers the muscles and tendons to engage and build potential.

內鉗陽馬 Loi Keem Yeung Ma - “inner engaging yang stance”
Both legs again open taking a proper but ding but baat stance. Here the action and potential is opposite that of the “outer engaging yang stance” as both knees clamp inward, pushing toward each other, which is accompanied by internally rotating, or closing the kua.

The spinal posture of the “inner engaging yang stance” is opposite that of the “outer engaging yang stance” as the purpose and function is different. The torso remains straight and centered with no inclination to allow the spine to move naturally on the 3 axial planes.

二趾鉗陽馬 Yi Ji Keem Yeung Ma - “two toe engaging yang stance”
This stance is formed by spreading both legs open to roughly twice shoulder width. In this posture the first and second toes of each foot grip the ground, gently pulling to activate the tendons of the leg. When the inside of the kua or hip joints activate, it establishes a point of pull, which focuses the direction and further strengthens the traction of the tendons. This stance may be referred to and related to the common “side horse stance”.

三角鉗陽馬 Saam Gok Keem Yeung Ma - “triangle engaging yang stance”
This stance is taken by placing both feet on either side of the centerline, then while maintaining the weight over one foot slide the other foot backward into the posture. Once the posture is taken, the ankle joint, knee joint and hip joint extend, straightening the rear leg activating the tendons throughout the length. The lead knee then is turned inward to engage the tendons and activate the kua. It is the tensile strength of the engaged tendons that supports the knee and hip joint that would otherwise be stressed from the torque if the stance were simply passive and relaxed. This stance places a far greater load on the kua, and the difference between this stance and the others is that left and right kua counters each other, a function called twisting the kua. This stance may be referred to and related to the common “bow stance”.

Conclusion
Put simply, the “outer engaging yang stance” is concerned with the muscles and fascia of the outer, lateral aspect of the leg. The “inner engaging yang stance” is concerned with the muscles and fascia of the inner, medial aspect of the leg. The “two-toe engaging yang stance” is concerned with the tendons. The “triangle engaging yang stance” is concerned with the bones and joints. Each type of “engaging yang stance” discussed here is activated by a different function of the kua covering all of its 3 variants (i.e., opening, closing, and twisting). Furthermore, each stance plays its role in the development of the bones and tendons of the legs and waist, actively training and transforming them into functional components that don’t simply hold the posture but dynamically activate the posture as well!

What is keem yeung? It is “the action that gives rise to yang”. Yang (or yeung) here refers to the specific yang components of the human body involved in the stance: the energy of “kidney yang”, “heart yang”, and “liver yang”, the “yang governing vessel”, “yang heel vessel”, and the “greater yang bladder channel”. The training of keem yeung directly involves all of these components. An active focus and training in such manner stimulates the yang channels, causing them to contract. This in turn causes the yin channels to dilate and become unblocked, which brings an equilibrium of yin and yang to the body. Keem, which means “to clamp” or “to grip”, includes the actions of the feet (toes), legs (knees), and hips (kua). These activate the static stance. This action activates the tendons of the posture and engages the yang components of the stance. This is why the stance is called the “engaging yang stance”!

The concepts and explanations discussed here have been carefully researched from a martial and medical standpoint, and from decades of experience and training. When the actions of the stance are free and flowing, the whole body will initiate and become involved. The fundamental training forms of inspired styles are for the explicit purpose of developing the stance and its potential, as any solid structure is built from the ground up.

In conclusion, this article merely represents the personal experience and research of a practitioner who hopes that it may be considered by others and found to be beneficial.

About the author
Siu Ting Fun was born in 1944 in Mei Zhou City of Guangdong Province. He started learning kung fu at the age of five and spent the next 50 years exploring the depths of martial arts and human physiology to reach a profound understanding. He was well trained in kung fu during his lifetime, studying under many masters and specializing in six styles: Bak Mei, Lung Ying, Lei Ga, Hung Ga, Wing Chun, and Taai Gik. He merged all this with his extensive knowledge of Chinese Medicine and his highly refined methods of “tendon changing" to found his own school of martial arts called Ging Do 勁道, meaning the “way of inner power”. The focus of this school is in developmental methods of internal martial power through the transformation of the bones and tendons. A product of many masters and his own talent Siu Ting Fun was elected by his peers as the Grandmaster of the Bak Mei clan in Guangzhou, where he has been an outstanding representative of the style locally and abroad. He has written technical literature on Bak Mei and related internal aspects, and produced highly competent teachers who continue to share his knowledge and methods today.

Yum Cha
08-26-2010, 01:35 AM
Hi Soulfist.

Thanks for that. Is Sui Ting fun still alive? I had heard he was ill several years ago.

Its funny, I think I have the original poem/story from which that was taken.

Where did you come across this? Are you hing dai?

soulfist
08-26-2010, 01:59 AM
Siu Ting Fun is alive and well. But several years ago he received a terrible head injury and never fully recovered from it. Hes mentally a little slower Im told. He still performs Bak Mei often but is medically advised to not do anything that might shake his head around, like fajing or partner work, or he might damage his brain!

My sifu translated that article. He learned from Siu Ting Fun and is one of his few representatives. Siu does perform and maintains his position in the Guangzhou Bak Mei Association, but the teaching is now entirely left to his students. Too bad, hes the best Bak Mei practitioner Ive ever seen but his method never really got spread out of China.

Yum Cha
08-26-2010, 04:36 AM
Siu Ting Fun is alive and well. But several years ago he received a terrible head injury and never fully recovered from it. Hes mentally a little slower Im told. He still performs Bak Mei often but is medically advised to not do anything that might shake his head around, like fajing or partner work, or he might damage his brain!

My sifu translated that article. He learned from Siu Ting Fun and is one of his few representatives. Siu does perform and maintains his position in the Guangzhou Bak Mei Association, but the teaching is now entirely left to his students. Too bad, hes the best Bak Mei practitioner Ive ever seen but his method never really got spread out of China.

That's good news, I will tell my Sifu. Are you in Canada?

Syn7
08-26-2010, 12:21 PM
Siu Ting Fun is alive and well. But several years ago he received a terrible head injury and never fully recovered from it. Hes mentally a little slower Im told. He still performs Bak Mei often but is medically advised to not do anything that might shake his head around, like fajing or partner work, or he might damage his brain!

My sifu translated that article. He learned from Siu Ting Fun and is one of his few representatives. Siu does perform and maintains his position in the Guangzhou Bak Mei Association, but the teaching is now entirely left to his students. Too bad, hes the best Bak Mei practitioner Ive ever seen but his method never really got spread out of China.

where can we see some forms... before the injury... and after just cause im curious...

soulfist
08-26-2010, 12:51 PM
Yumcha: Siu Ting Fun doesnt have any people in Canada, but there is a faction called Hap Ging Do that is still running there I think. Im in Hong Kong.

Syn7: I dont know if theres any footage of Siu prior to his injury. Ill visit with him this year and see if he has anything I can get. But shortly his association is planning a new website and will have alot of videos of his representatives showing his methods. Ive never seen others perform Bak Mei in the same manner.

once ronin
08-26-2010, 12:57 PM
Siu Ting Fun trains daily with his students and wife in a park in Guangzhou.

His wife prefers to work daily on hung gar's tiger crane while Siu Ting Fun plays with Bak Mei.

He is very easy to talk to and willing to teach you anything.

He explains because he feels there is nothing to withhold.

Everyone needs time to develope.

Just because he shares with you doesnt mean you can do what he explained.

His tendon changing tops many push hand and chi sao chanpions.

Syn7
08-26-2010, 01:18 PM
Yumcha: Siu Ting Fun doesnt have any people in Canada, but there is a faction called Hap Ging Do that is still running there I think. Im in Hong Kong.

Syn7: I dont know if theres any footage of Siu prior to his injury. Ill visit with him this year and see if he has anything I can get. But shortly his association is planning a new website and will have alot of videos of his representatives showing his methods. Ive never seen others perform Bak Mei in the same manner.

sweet, keep us posted on that website addy... thanx...

Yum Cha
08-26-2010, 07:23 PM
His tendon changing tops many push hand and chi sao chanpions.

Pak mei and loong ying....

He and my Sifu grew up together.

Yum Cha
08-26-2010, 07:37 PM
Yumcha: Siu Ting Fun doesnt have any people in Canada, but there is a faction called Hap Ging Do that is still running there I think. Im in Hong Kong.

Syn7: I dont know if theres any footage of Siu prior to his injury. Ill visit with him this year and see if he has anything I can get. But shortly his association is planning a new website and will have alot of videos of his representatives showing his methods. Ive never seen others perform Bak Mei in the same manner.

Sui Ting Fun used to be a member of Hap Ging Do(?). A lot of the old guys have passed away now, but Hap Ging Do was always a loose collection of all the old guys that were the 5th and 6th generation students in Guangzhou. I don't really know what has become of it, like all these associations, they evolve.

Hap Ging Do lineage added some forms to the Pak Mei set, I think they have maybe 5 versions of Gau Bo Twi? Kwan Kwok Fai created a couple I know. That early Pak Mei CD is one of his forms.

They're not the only Pak Mei in Guangzhou, but because it was what it was, everybody was in it even if they weren't 'in' it. It was like the clubhouse from what I gater. The place where the old blokes hung out teaching and drinking tea..

soulfist
08-26-2010, 09:17 PM
Siu Ting Fun was never a member of Hap Ging Do! He started his own school called Ging Do (way of power) in 1970, then his classmate/student Lau Cheun tried to out do him and started his own school called Hap Ging Do (way of combined power) later. Siu taught little forms and just focused on the power, but Lau was a collector of Bak Mei forms and techniques.

They both learned from a guy called Yau Yan Woh who was a 5th gen and developed the forms further. Sek See Keun became Siu Sek See and Daai Sek See, Gau Bo Tui became Siu Gau Bo Tui and Daai Gau Bo Tui, Mang Fu Cheut Lum becaume Mang Fu Ha San and Mang Fu Kum Yeung, etc. Those forms were pretty good actually, but took the focus off the power development and put it on hand techniques that overcomplicated the style. Lau kept all those in his school, but Siu stayed simple and threw out all the non essentials.

Syn7
08-26-2010, 11:39 PM
nice... thanx for all the knowledge... anything else you feel like typing dont feel its wasted coz atleast one person will read it... which is me, ofcourse... where did you guys learn about the guanzhou bak mei history???

Yum Cha
08-26-2010, 11:49 PM
Siu Ting Fun was never a member of Hap Ging Do! He started his own school called Ging Do (way of power) in 1970, then his classmate/student Lau Cheun tried to out do him and started his own school called Hap Ging Do (way of combined power) later. Siu taught little forms and just focused on the power, but Lau was a collector of Bak Mei forms and techniques.

They both learned from a guy called Yau Yan Woh who was a 5th gen and developed the forms further. Sek See Keun became Siu Sek See and Daai Sek See, Gau Bo Tui became Siu Gau Bo Tui and Daai Gau Bo Tui, Mang Fu Cheut Lum becaume Mang Fu Ha San and Mang Fu Kum Yeung, etc. Those forms were pretty good actually, but took the focus off the power development and put it on hand techniques that overcomplicated the style. Lau kept all those in his school, but Siu stayed simple and threw out all the non essentials.

Ok, I'll take your word for it. Everything you said is pretty much the way I understand it, more or less. I get second hand information.

Anyway, I believe this is a picture of him. Maybe 10 years ago.

The way I hear it, Yau Yen Wah was something special, Har Hon Hong, Chun Wai Bok (sp?) who went to Vietnam. They were all hing dai from what I understand. You know much about those days, before the war?

diego
08-27-2010, 02:40 AM
Yumcha: Siu Ting Fun doesnt have any people in Canada, but there is a faction called Hap Ging Do that is still running there I think. Im in Hong Kong.

Syn7: I dont know if theres any footage of Siu prior to his injury. Ill visit with him this year and see if he has anything I can get. But shortly his association is planning a new website and will have alot of videos of his representatives showing his methods. Ive never seen others perform Bak Mei in the same manner. Awesome look forward to any new BM webpage. Can we get pictures of the stances in the article?.

soulfist
08-27-2010, 08:03 AM
Nice picture Yumcha! That was taken in 2001 in Guangzhou, my sifu is sitting just out of the frame. The bald guy beside Siu Ting Fun is Lau Keung, his student and vice-president of the Guangzhou Assoc. The guy with his back to the camera is Gong Faat Ming, Siu's most senior disciple. The guy standing is Phillip Wong, a big name in Hong Kong's Bak Mei Assoc. That was a delegation of most of the top Bak Mei masters of Hong Kong going to China to learn more about the roots and see older principles of Bak Mei. My sifu performed on that day infront of them all representing the Guangzhou group.

I wonder if I have any pictures...

Syn7
08-27-2010, 10:52 AM
I wonder if I have any pictures...

break em out!!! :D

soulfist
08-29-2010, 02:06 AM
Here are pictures of the Guangzhou Bak Mei Association heads. Its just a couple pages from a book the assoc released in 2004.

Yum Cha
08-29-2010, 02:42 AM
Hey Soulfist, thanks. I've seen that before, any chance you can name the people in English?

Lau
09-09-2010, 06:44 AM
Gentlemen,

We seem pretty connected. Philip Wong is from my lineage, coming from 5th generation grandmaster Lee Sai Keung in Hong Kong.

Regards, Lau

Syn7
09-09-2010, 12:31 PM
thanx alot man, thats fresh...

anyone else with any more pics and info, by all means post it all up... make a bak mei info thread where yall can post articles and pics about lineage and history... that would be awesome... i'f i had much to offer i would do it...


could somebody please translate the names... it would be most appreciated... just type em out the order they apear top to bottom... :D pretty please!?!?!?!

soulfist
09-09-2010, 01:16 PM
These are all senior members of the Guangjau Bak Mei Association, and they are all under or related to Siu Ting Fun. No people from the Hong Kong branch or other branches, just of the particular association. The faces are all there and if you dont know those faces Im certain you wouldnt know the names either.

I have dozens of Bak Mei articles and manuscripts from as far back as there is. Everyone writes articles and posts discussions on the same topics: forms, history, hand techniques... its all old and unimportant news. How many articles are there like this one posted? Physiology and methodology, that is the substance that Bak Mei was built upon and defined by. Ive seen few similar publications but have what has been released. I was going to have more posted similar to this one but as theres no discussion then I assume theres also no interest.

Look at the other threads, just pieces of trivia! But finally an indepth article comes along here and theres no discussion... even though nearly 700 reads! Maybe its just a common sense article and talking about things that everyone knows about anyway, thus no need to discuss it further!

soulfist
09-09-2010, 01:22 PM
Heres where the article was originally posted:
http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10041

Theres a bit better discussion on it over there. But since there are very few Bak Mei practitioners over there I thought Id bring it over here.

Yum Cha
09-09-2010, 05:48 PM
Soulfist, not many Pak Mei practitioners here either.

Not sure what you expected. It was a nice article, accurate, well translated.

I told you my Sifu knows and grew up with Sui Ting Fun, which provided you with an opportunity to enquire, if you were interested in engaging.

You sound disappointed, don't be. Do more than post an article, post your conclusions, or challenges, or questions to provide something to discuss.

As is, the choice is, yea good, naw bad. Its good. Great stuff, love to see more. Its nothing new to me, but expressed nicely. Unless you're into our stuff, its probably just a bit esoteric.

diego
09-09-2010, 09:18 PM
Soulfist my sifu would hit me with a stick if i talk about the BM method. They hope you can learn it but dont care they have enough cousins and uncles to train it. I'm just trying to find the historical link between Foshan, Guangzhou and Hong Kong white eyebrow. I'll show sifu the article maybe he has something to share. He hates questions though.

Yum Cha
09-09-2010, 10:08 PM
Soulfist my sifu would hit me with a stick if i talk about the BM method. They hope you can learn it but dont care they have enough cousins and uncles to train it. I'm just trying to find the historical link between Foshan, Guangzhou and Hong Kong white eyebrow. I'll show sifu the article maybe he has something to share. He hates questions though.

easy.

CLC started in Guangzhou, first half of life.

Post war, went to HK, last 20 years of life. New school started that brought him back in the world by Nam Ging. Died in '68(?).

Futsan is a branch of Har Hon Hong lineage, but some claim alternative lineage due to political issues, possibly around the HHH lineage. They have a bunch of unique patterns and different theories, that could be it as well.

Vietnam is from early CLC in Guangzhou, Mstr Dang.

After CLC (and HHH along with many others, I'm sure) left Guangzhou for HK with the coming of Mao, a a group of 5th generation remained in Guangzhou and taught as best they could under the threat of drama for practising forbidden old ways.

I'm guessing it was similar in Futsan. I know Futsan and Guangzhou are closer friends than either is with Hong Kong, but there's no animosity, just stronger family ties.

Yau Yen Wa made a sojurn to Malaysia and returned to Guangzhou, I believe.

Syn7
09-09-2010, 10:15 PM
yet hong kong and guangzhou are alot more alike than fatsan... like how the forms look and whatnot... no???

you mean fatsan and GZ have ties because they are so close, they are litterally family in alot of cases???


i was wondering where the vietnam part came in... i was pretty sure it was from GZ but i didnt have a name... sweet, thanx... more to google:D

soulfist
09-09-2010, 11:36 PM
Hong Kong Bak Mei is Guangjau Bak Mei, same teacher! If you must say there are differences they those differences lie in:

1) HK practitioners in general stuck to their style and never/seldom ventured beyond. GZ practitioners for the most learned multiple styles and concepts and often had the fighting experiences to see what works.
2) Jeung Lai Cheun taught in China from 1911-1949, then in HK from 49-64. The raw spirit and force of a young teacher in his prime, vs the refined calm wisdom of a teacher in his later years. Same material more or less but the presentation was different!

Ive learned from 2 teachers of HK and 8 teachers of GZ. I live in HK and interact with both groups regularly. However the HK group is far more political and seem to look down strongly on the GZ group. Regardless I dont view them as 2 different branches as its the same material from the same teacher!


I have no positive comments on what came out of Futshan.

diego
09-09-2010, 11:40 PM
In my bm thread one of the articles said the ferocious tiger form ir CLCs baby combing all the bm footwork and mental principles created when he was old..if foshan has this set wouldnt that explain the lineage... Also inside kung fu 1993 or1983 Kwong Man Fong can break a coconut with one strike did james lacy pick that up from hakka?.

soulfist
09-10-2010, 12:25 AM
Mang Fu Chut Lum is Jeung Lai Cheun's baby? Hardly. Most make that observation based solely upon its ranking in the curriculum. Look at every form in the system, they all look and feel quite similar (obviously)... except Mang Fu Chut Lum. No one explores that issue though, just praise to the upper form.

If JLC had a baby it would be "Ng Hang Moh Kiu Gung"! This was conceptualized by Jeung as the consolidation and final stage of Bak Mei's evolution. As so few have ever seen the form let alone learned it they easily dismiss it and its worth.


Breaking a coconut isnt something you would pick up from a style. I used to learn chopping stones with various parts of the palm from my teacher. From another we would learn how to thread various grades of paper with a flat fist. So is it that one style trains with a focus on coconut force, one trains with a focus on stone force, and one trains with a focus on paper force? No, I dont think so.

diego
09-10-2010, 01:13 AM
www.pakmei-uk.com go to "referances" "sifu Yen Chien-Kuang on the white brow style" by Ah Lun He says the highest level is MENG HU CH'U LIN and WU HANG MU. Is five element rubbing hitting chi gong?. These are things I wont ask sifu about until I get into 9 step push..just trying to under stand all of the BM utube videos HK to Foshan. NG HANG MO KIU GUNG what does that mean in English?. Typing on a **** phone it's tedious to crosscheck while typing lol..

Lau
09-10-2010, 02:55 AM
I am still wondering why it is called Mang Fu, after 9 steps and 18 frictions I would have expected something with 36. Why does the numerology stop at this form? Regards, Lau

Yum Cha
09-11-2010, 05:17 PM
I am still wondering why it is called Mang Fu, after 9 steps and 18 frictions I would have expected something with 36. Why does the numerology stop at this form? Regards, Lau

I feel CLC's hand in that form. Its different to the other two.

Ng Ying came from Lin Sang? I always pegged it for a 5th generation form, like 6 power or lightening Gau Bo Twi...

Fung Ngan
09-13-2010, 01:15 PM
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1038356]I feel CLC's hand in that form. Its different to the other two.



In “Secrets of Kungfu vol 20” (1978?) sifu Yen Chien Kuang 蘇劍光 (student of Cheung Bing Sem 張炳森) says that Cheung Lai Chun created Mang Fu Tju Lam towards the end of his live by combining the pugilistic and mental methods of the White Eyebrow Style. So feeling Cheung Lai Chun hands seems no so strange…;)

soulfist
09-13-2010, 01:33 PM
Impossible! Jeung Lai Cheun taught Mang Fu Chut Lam to his earliest students, it couldnt have been created at the end of his life. Ha Hon Hung of YKM learned it too and he was one of the earliest students!

Of the 3 pillars of Bak Mei, it is only Gau Bo Tui that resembles the rest of the system. I can see that Sup Baat Moh Kiu is taking the skills, methods, and principles of Bak Mei to a further level, but Mang Fu takes it in another direction completely.

I learned Mang Fu Chut Lam well over a decade ago, and at that time I also learned the lesser known forms Mang Fu Ha Saan (fierce tiger descends the mountain) and Mang Fu Kum Yeung (fierce tiger catches the sheep). They are very similar in all respects but perhaps extensions of Mang Fu Chut Lam. My personal feeling, heavily technique based but offers little in terms of developing and refining the essence of Bak Mei.

Jeung Lai Cheun did create a form though consolidating the theory and methodology of Bak Mei, called "Ng Hang Moh Kiu Gung". That was considered his unfinished masterpiece, as he never finished it. To me it is in the direction that Sup Baat Moh Kiu goes to, and is even more dissimilar to Mang Fu Chut Lam than the rest!

Yum Cha
09-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Of the 3 pillars of Bak Mei, it is only Gau Bo Tui that resembles the rest of the system. I can see that Sup Baat Moh Kiu is taking the skills, methods, and principles of Bak Mei

I tend to group the basic forms and Mang Fu as one group, and Jik Bo, Ng Ying, GBT and SBM in a second.

The first lot, including Mang Fu, are ferocious and practical.

The others are more in depth and intricate in their execution, breathing, etc.

HOWEVER, I believe as you get better, you gain the ability to use the energy from either side within the other...

And THAT is where Mang Fu fits into its own unique place.

Something else I've noticed, concerning the forms and the timeline. The forms get progressively more complicated as the generations pass, with each generation adding its own bits, interpretations, and 'style'. I think its fair to also accept that CLC changed his teaching over the 50 odd years he taught....

Our lineage is early, and forms are more simple than later students/generations versions of the same. As Soulfist mentioned, he knows several versions of Gau Bo Twi and Mang Fu. But apparently, some of the core forms are no longer taught in Hong Kong?

Sei Moon, Sa Mun, Dey Sut, Ying Jau lin Que - are these dropped in HK now?

diego
09-13-2010, 08:23 PM
I tend to group the basic forms and Mang Fu as one group, and Jik Bo, Ng Ying, GBT and SBM in a second.

The first lot, including Mang Fu, are ferocious and practical.

The others are more in depth and intricate in their execution, breathing, etc.

HOWEVER, I believe as you get better, you gain the ability to use the energy from either side within the other...

And THAT is where Mang Fu fits into its own unique place.

Something else I've noticed, concerning the forms and the timeline. The forms get progressively more complicated as the generations pass, with each generation adding its own bits, interpretations, and 'style'. I think its fair to also accept that CLC changed his teaching over the 50 odd years he taught....

Our lineage is early, and forms are more simple than later students/generations versions of the same. As Soulfist mentioned, he knows several versions of Gau Bo Twi and Mang Fu. But apparently, some of the core forms are no longer taught in Hong Kong?

Sei Moon, Sa Mun, Dey Sut, Ying Jau lin Que - are these dropped in HK now?

just in my school sisook taught me a different sub jee than what sifu showed me...sifu's is more small power and anatomically correct sisooks is big tiger full of fighting aggression...

is there any pupils that studied with CLC for the full 50 years of his teaching, what do we know about his carreer that's in newspapers and government records?.

Yum Cha
09-14-2010, 12:25 AM
just in my school sisook taught me a different sub jee than what sifu showed me...sifu's is more small power and anatomically correct sisooks is big tiger full of fighting aggression...

is there any pupils that studied with CLC for the full 50 years of his teaching, what do we know about his carreer that's in newspapers and government records?.

yea, don't place too much account in what happens from the elbow to the finger tips, in fact you should be able to vary it. forms vary, some more others less.

There was a little bru ha ha in the middle of CLC's life called WWII, closely followed by the Chinese revolution. I believe he was practically destitute in HK when he was found by Nam Ging. Don't know how much continuity there was with the old life. One can guess...

If you want the best research on Pak Mei, visit the Dutch site, they have most articles and magazines, etc. They are meticulous. #1.