Lost jobs to outsourcing

[KC Elbows]

I believe I'm part of a silent majority here. Not Reagan's silent majority, but an important one nonetheless.

Having had credit for years, I've been good and responsible. Like most, there were times of crunch where we fell behind, but we always made sure to catch up, and eventually moved away from use of credit cards, and minimized other forms of credit.

This said, if your job, at any point, was calling people to let them know they're late on their credit card payment, and you're upset that despite living in the most prosperous country in the world, despite growing up with every possibility open to you, the best you could do was get a job talking to people in your native tongue, and your job was "stolen" by people who use english as a second language well enough to do what you were doing, and you're mad about it...

...well, no one really liked talking to you anyway. Here, let me give you the message in a language that you understand:

"Well, if you had simply been more responsible, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in now, would you? You made an agreement with the company, a lot like agreeing to use their credit while they create charges and creatively date payments to create new profit-making charges to apply against you, only your agreement was you'd spend your days calling people as long as you were the cheapest option. Well, they found cheaper. Good luck, I hear there's jobs picking fruit to save America from the Mexicans, have you applied with them? It might be better than falling behind on your credit cards, those guys are such arseholes about that, aren't they?":D

[sanjuro_ronin]

obs get lost to outsourcing when companies find people that can do the same job for less pay.
It's called capitalisim and global economy.
Deal with it.

[KC Elbows]

Ironically, most unemployed Americans could probably use a credit card to get to Mumbai and get a job calling themselves.

[Drake]

Read Thomas Friedman's The World is Flat. It's all explained, very nicely, about how these jobs are actually better where they are for business.

Even if we did hire Americans for the job, the businesses that did so would fall behind and eventually falter. This is a side effect of globalization, and quite frankly, if all you can do is basic data entry, you never really had job security to begin with.

The job market is now global. Plan accordingly.

[KC Elbows]

Read Thomas Friedman's The World is Flat. It's all explained, very nicely, about how these jobs are actually better where they are for business.

Even if we did hire Americans for the job, the businesses that did so would fall behind and eventually falter. This is a side effect of globalization, and quite frankly, if all you can do is basic data entry, you never really had job security to begin with.

The job market is now global. Plan accordingly.

That's a decent read.

I feel for people's trouble, but the same people often decrying welfare don't recognize that protectionism is hardly different.

On the flip side, especially in regards to credit, many of these companies got off lightly for cutthroat and unfair practices. The ability of companies to avoid consequences by choosing locales that protect them from repercussions from unfair practices is very problematic, imo.

[Syn7]

my porn job was outsourced to africans... i just didnt measure up!

i dont think i have actually met somebody whos lost a job to outsourcing... other than call centers what other industries have been hit??? i hear people cry about it all the time, but i never hear specifics... just waving a fist and saying random s h i t in a ****ed off manner...

[KC Elbows]

i dont think i have actually met somebody whos lost a job to outsourcing... other than call centers what other industries have been hit??? i hear people cry about it all the time, but i never hear specifics... just waving a fist and saying random s h i t in a ****ed off manner...

Precisely. Having worked consrtruction, I know a lot of unemployed guys now, but honestly, there's another good example of an industry that was clearly beyond the need for it; too many houses, not enough people for them, and a lot of fat that could've been trimmed.

For all the crying about how to fix the economy, there's not much mention of the fact that when you don't make anything, and you are more expensive for services than elsewhere, what is there to call an economy? Some high techs are good, but we're not the only ones making them, and they can't stand in for all exports.

Many people seem to think we should have a strong economy based on economic games, this seems hazardous to me for obvious reasons.

[Syn7]

Precisely. Having worked consrtruction, I know a lot of unemployed guys now, but honestly, there's another good example of an industry that was clearly beyond the need for it; too many houses, not enough people for them, and a lot of fat that could've been trimmed.

For all the crying about how to fix the economy, there's not much mention of the fact that when you don't make anything, and you are more expensive for services than elsewhere, what is there to call an economy? Some high techs are good, but we're not the only ones making them, and they can't stand in for all exports.

Many people seem to think we should have a strong economy based on economic games, this seems hazardous to me for obvious reasons.

yeah, im an electrician and im feeling the hit forsure... and yeah immigrants are slowly working their way in by undercutting the people who have been doing it for years but they are feeling this hit too... and the ones that undercut too much are building garbage, and people realise that and are usually willing to pay for quality... but, that being said, we are slowly moving into the same direction as other industries where people are starting to accept crap quality in order to save a buck... a complete lack of foresight on the buyers part and totally greedy and the developers end... only time will tell, but i see my job as being considered a reletively low paying job by the time i retire...

[KC Elbows]

yeah, im an electrician and im feeling the hit forsure... and yeah immigrants are slowly working their way in by undercutting the people who have been doing it for years but they are feeling this hit too... and the ones that undercut too much are building garbage, and people realise that and are usually willing to pay for quality... but, that being said, we are slowly moving into the same direction as other industries where people are starting to accept crap quality in order to save a buck... a complete lack of foresight on the buyers part and totally greedy and the developers end... only time will tell, but i see my job as being considered a reletively low paying job by the time i retire...

Sorry to hear that. I think another aspect to things is that the materials used for some time have been cheaper and cheaper in quality. Don't know on the electrical end so much.

[Syn7]

well, its weird... a few years ago china was buying all the copper it could get, which sent prices through the roof... but since the recession its dropped significantly... there are lots of quality employers out there but im seeing alot of craigslist ads asking for journeymen and offfering like 22 bucks an hour CDN... and thats rediculous... i was making 20 as a first year apprentice... and thats a bit high but timnes were pretty good... a 1st year should get atleast 15 - 17... just the labour alone is worth that... you dont have to be a genius to pull wire through a stud from one end to the other... you can leave the harder stuff to those more qualified... you would think that now that materials are cheaper that the cost overruns would stop and wages would go up again... go figure huh... people get used to being taken advantage of in hard times and dont stick up for their wage when times are good... and thats where immigrants come in... they will do it for next to nothing... theyre just happy they can eat and have a roof... cant blame them for that, i blame our immigration policy for that... like the boatload of tamils we just got, the navy should have turned them away, hgive em food fuel and meds and tell em to p i s s off... we just cant have people comming in whenever they feel like it because their country sucks... thats how you ruin a good thing... im not an a s s h o l e, i just feel that if we open the gates we'll lose everything we've worked for... we need to just let in a trickle... a small constant flow...

[KC Elbows]

One question is, what's the fair price for a job? Honestly, the U.S. was able to dictate prices for so long, that we got used to thinking those wages were the fair price; but that U.S. influence was going to be temporary, as other countries improved their economies, costs were going to go up.

As for immigration, as long as companies pay them, they are going to come. The government isn't paying them, you and I aren't, it's businesses doing so, and those businesses aren't going to be paying to stop them from coming, or really lobbying to see it stop, and they're lobbying power and general influence is way more relevant than the average voter's. Neither party has any real interest in it other than getting votes but not acting on it.

[Syn7]

no doubt...


a fair wage... well, its subjective, thats for sure... i feel a fair wage is relevant to the cost of living in the area you work, factor in meterials and realistic profit margins... short answer, depends where you are...


in a place where a tiny 1 bedroom apt costs 900 a month, paying a skilled worker 13 bucks an hour isnt realistc...

but this whole global community thang changes everything/... it wil be interesting to see how fast the quality of life goes down in the g8 over the next few years... and it will go down for the majority...

and quite frankly, i dont wanna move in with my parents and have my cousins and and aunts and uncles in the same house so we can all save up and/or undercut the existing workforce... it really comes down to what people are willing to tolerate and what they arent... we're so spoiled over here, its not realistic to take that away in one generation wityhout some serious backlash... leading to violence and hatred forsure... besides, im with steyn on this one, multiculturalism is a failed project... as much as i love other people and cultures, fascinating, im willing to admit that this isnt gonna work they way we hoped it would...

[Drake]

All things considered, I am actually underpaid, which is weird. I bring in about $65k a year, but apparently I'm worth about 50% more. It's all about my job and security clearances. That being said, if any of you ever get a chance to get a security clearance, go for it. Your wallet will thank me later.

[Syn7]

what do u do and why does a security clearance make you paid more??? if you have a clearance it suggest you work for the man, am i right??? assuming im right, doesnt the private sector always get more money than gov jobs???

[Drake]

what do u do and why does a security clearance make you paid more??? if you have a clearance it suggest you work for the man, am i right??? assuming im right, doesnt the private sector always get more money than gov jobs???

It's because security clearances take a while and cost a buttload of $$ for the company. The private sector is paying folks like me, starting, around $90-145k a year. And those guys sometimes don't even have bachelors degrees.

As for me... I'm a secret squirrel. HW108 is convinced I am a government plant sent to these boards to discredit him. The truth is that I'm just an analyst of events and a very good briefer. Nothing to see here. Please move on. :D

[Lucas]

I always knew you were part of that secret branch of the govt. set up strictly to infultrate the KFM forums...:eek:

[Syn7]

It's because security clearances take a while and cost a buttload of $$ for the company. The private sector is paying folks like me, starting, around $90-145k a year. And those guys sometimes don't even have bachelors degrees.

As for me... I'm a secret squirrel. HW108 is convinced I am a government plant sent to these boards to discredit him. The truth is that I'm just an analyst of events and a very good briefer. Nothing to see here. Please move on. :D

whats a secret squirrel??? are you allowed to talk about your clearance? what level of clearance??? so are you an intel man? for the company or dod or what??? who do you debrief?

[Syn7]

on nm... you said brief, not debrief... my bad... ok who do you brief then?


i think i could do great things for csis... unfortunately they dont consider spending time in prison to be asmuch of an asset as i do :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

The reality is that over here the line between skilled and unskilled labour has been blurred and because of that, skilled and technical work has also suffered.
You can thank unions and automation for that in many ways and people living above their means.
Right now, in Ontario, min wage is 10.75 an hour.
Now, that may not seem like lots for some, but realise this, a person with NO skill whatsoever, putting foam in a box or moving that box from A to B is making 10.75 per hour or 430 bucks per 40 hour work week.
Someone can walk in off the street with NO ability whatsoever and do that job, that same day.
It is NOT skilled work so, if that pays 10.75, what should a skilled welder make?
30?
But here is the thing, in the global market, which is what we have right now, you are competing with welders getting paid 15 or 20 hr, NOT 30 and doing the SAME Job, perhaps better.
Some will say, how can one survive on less? or the cost of living..blah, blah.
Well guess what?
No one freaking cares that YOU made your cost of living to high to be competitive.
When a company in Germany can make a 10 million dollar project for a US company for 7 million, guess what, they SHOULD get the Job because WE should be asking HOW THE **** can they do that ??

[Drake]

Germany was probably a poor choice of countries when talking about business deals... just sayin'...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Germany was probably a poor choice of countries when talking about business deals... just sayin'...

LMAO, indeed, sorry, just finished a project here for a German company that sold it to a Canadian company in Quebec.
Yes, you read it right:
A Canadian company gave an order for a 750K project to a Germany company they gave some of it to a Canadian Company ( mine) and the rest to their Canadian equivelent.
Now you ask, why didn't the Canadian Company go direct to the Canadian Equivelant?
Well, they did but somehow the Germany company was CHEAPER !!!
:eek:

[David Jamieson]

LMAO, indeed, sorry, just finished a project here for a German company that sold it to a Canadian company in Quebec.
Yes, you read it right:
A Canadian company gave an order for a 750K project to a Germany company they gave some of it to a Canadian Company ( mine) and the rest to their Canadian equivelent.
Now you ask, why didn't the Canadian Company go direct to the Canadian Equivelant?
Well, they did but somehow the Germany company was CHEAPER !!!
:eek:

The German company had a better business relationship established already is what I am guessing. Also, it would appear that the German company was easier for the Canadian client to deal with.

I have a bigger issue with sending technical service jobs away when they can easily be staffed here and there would be quicker and more satisfying resolutions to the service issues.

A guy in India cannot in a timely manner take care of a service call for equipment that is here.

I say this because I spent 1/2 an hour on the phone with an HP tech out of India that led to me having to contact the Canadian office and resolve the issue through it. And yes, I told them how unsatisfactory their telephone service was.

I have experienced this with software as well. These jobs would be better to have here in my opinion. Especially considering the high unemployment rates we are seeing right now. It doesn't make sense to offshore jobs that could be filled by our folks right now and keep that money in our own economy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The German company had a better business relationship established already is what I am guessing. Also, it would appear that the German company was easier for the Canadian client to deal with.

Nope, 10% less and better delivery.
Which boogles the mind since the very same company did it for Germany that sold it to the Quebec company AND the Quebec company was in contact with them !
Oivey !!!
Global market is something isn't it?

It was a case of the German company being a division of the same CO that the Canadian company was, so the Canadian company gave them a price that was obviously far more competitive than the one they gave the Quebec Co.
Amazing isn't it?
The business of doing business is business and if we always remember that the business is business then this business, which is business, will always be THE business of business, which is Business.