HK Ving Tsun Full Contact Competition

[wkmark]

Here is a video of a recent Ving Tsun Full Contact Competition. This was my first ever Full Contact competition. This was the 30- 50 years old 80 KG weight category. I was at 73 KG and my opponent about 80 KGS give and take. Age wise I am turning 37 and him either 39 or 40. I forgot.

The rules were no large whipping punches, no strikes to the neck, eyes, throat, back of the neck etc. No kicking below the knees, no round house kicks nor turning back kicks. Side kicks are allowed but no stepping side kicks. Grappling is not allowed and throw downs aren't allowed either. This was an event to try and kick off and promote a Ving Tsun Full Contact competition.

I am the person in RED. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iuvxmUJzEU

[wkmark]

Here is the same fight but with a different camera and at a different Angle. Feel free to make constructive comments please.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtMjEy6ck10

[MartialDev]

1. Do you think that, under these particular rules, one would be better served by training in Ving Tsun, western Boxing or MMA?

2. Which VT principles did you intentionally follow, and which did you intentionally abandon?

3. If you had a rematch, what if anything would you do differently?

[YungChun]

Congratulations Mark!

Great job!! Kudos for putting more on the line than your keyboard.. :)


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs391.snc4/45432_10150235583130247_772505246_14283806_3137078 _n.jpg
Nice focus!

Let me know when that movie is coming out.. ;)

[taojkd]

Why no stepping side kicks if they allow side kicks? Also, is it no hooks are allowed or just that it is no wild out-of-control haymakers?

But i would like to see roundhouse kicks be allowed as it is nice to be able to develop the timing to stuffing them as well as "controlled" wide hooks or wind mill punches from Hung Gar or Choy Li Fut systems.

All in all, i like it and you did a very good job of staying poised. Congrats! That is a huge step

[wkmark]

1.) Under these particular Rules, I think training in Ving Tsun, western boxing or MMA would all be helpful. However given that this was a competition to try and promote full contact Ving Tsun, therefore more training in Ving Tsun would be good.

2.) Aside from my small knowledge in TKD, most of my Martial Arts training have in Ving Tsun. In this competition, I actually did exactly how I have learned Ving Tsun.

Fighting in my center line. Trying to keep my punches to the inside and force his hands to the outside, thus if i was hit, the punches would be to the upper or sides of my head. Not being afraid of taking hits as well. I chased the body and not the hands. Thus a lot of times I really wasn't sure what his hands were doing.

3.) As for what I abandoned, um.... to be honest, I don't think i abandoned anything. I just let my action flow in a sense.

4.) If I had a rematch, I would try to attack more from an angle. Train a bit harder to keep fit.





1. Do you think that, under these particular rules, one would be better served by training in Ving Tsun, western Boxing or MMA?

2. Which VT principles did you intentionally follow, and which did you intentionally abandon?

3. If you had a rematch, what if anything would you do differently?

[wkmark]

I have no idea why no stepping side kicks if they allowed side kicks. I'd have to ask why. Small hooks are allowed, just no wild out of control haymakers, or large whipping punches as you see in Choi Lay Fut.

Roundhouse kicks they did not allow because they did not want to turn this event into a Thai boxing or kick boxing match. They want us to fight full contact using more Ving Tsun techniques as there are plenty of Thai boxing, kick boxing and Sanda events already.

Thanks for liking the video.


Why no stepping side kicks if they allow side kicks? Also, is it no hooks are allowed or just that it is no wild out-of-control haymakers?

But i would like to see roundhouse kicks be allowed as it is nice to be able to develop the timing to stuffing them as well as "controlled" wide hooks or wind mill punches from Hung Gar or Choy Li Fut systems.

All in all, i like it and you did a very good job of staying poised. Congrats! That is a huge step

[Syn7]

that headgear look expensive... how much do they cost???

[wkmark]

All the equipments were from the organizer of the event. (except the mouthguard and the cup)

But they prob. aren't expensive.


that headgear look expensive... how much do they cost???

[t_niehoff]

2.) Aside from my small knowledge in TKD, most of my Martial Arts training have in Ving Tsun. In this competition, I actually did exactly how I have learned Ving Tsun.

Fighting in my center line. Trying to keep my punches to the inside and force his hands to the outside, thus if i was hit, the punches would be to the upper or sides of my head. Not being afraid of taking hits as well. I chased the body and not the hands. Thus a lot of times I really wasn't sure what his hands were doing.


You really believe that you actually "did" what you learned in WCK? Seriously?

OK, where was tan sao, bong sao, fook sao, etc.? Or, didn't you learn those movements? Where was the YJKYM, the bik ma, the turning horse, etc.? More stuff you didn't learn? Where was the movement that the forms and drills teach? Didn't learn that as well? Oh, I see, you did WCK without using any WCK movement. Interesting idea. ;) Next you should try boxing without using any boxing movement.

I guess the "VT" you were taught was to stand and move like a kickboxer, and to over-extend your straight punches, to drop your hands while kicking, to just charge forward indiscriminately, etc. A real interesting take on WCK.

You were doing kickboxing. Really bad kickboxing at that. You didn't need any WCK training to do what you did. Most, if not all,of your WCK went out the window. In fact, your performance is a great example of how NOT to do it. Thank you.

And please, don't retort with "but I was able to beat my unskilled scrub opponent who also didn't know WCK."

BTW, your reliance on hackneyed WCK phrases of "fighting in my center line", "not chasing hands", "keeping punches to the inside" doesn't validate your approach of just charging in with relentless straight punches -- arguably not even WCK punches. All it shows is that you have a superficial grasp of WCK.

[wkmark]

T- Thanks for letting me know what I was doing was superficial Ving Tsun. I actually never knew that. Please do come to Hong Kong and show me what REAL Wing Chun is.

[t_niehoff]

T- Thanks for letting me know what I was doing was superficial Ving Tsun. I actually never knew that. Please do come to Hong Kong and show me what REAL Wing Chun is.

There's no such thing as REAL wing chun.

The only issue is are you using WCK movement, those movements you learn and practice in the forms and drills, in your fighting.

Maybe you should tell these guys to stop doing WCK and calling it kickboxing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc15izxsY6U&feature=related

[Phil Redmond]

T- Thanks for letting me know what I was doing was superficial Ving Tsun. I actually never knew that. Please do come to Hong Kong and show me what REAL Wing Chun is.
It's good that you got out there and fought. So what if some guy who never posts a clip of himself criticizes what you do. Keep training a fighting. Wing Chun is what comes out of a Wing Chun man. Who cares if you didn't do a tan, fook or whatever. :)

[t_niehoff]

Who cares if you didn't do a tan, fook or whatever. :)

Yeah, what does it matter if you box and don't use a jab, cross, or hook?

I am absolutely certain that YOU don't care. What does it matter that you aren't using WCK movement? We should be able to do whatever we like and simply call it WCK, right? The important thing isn't what we do, it is the buzzwords and phrases -- or, to put it in vernacular, "concepts" -- we use. Then we can do anything and use our buzzwords, er I mean "concepts", to validate it.

But it's vitally important that we should go "fight" with other unskilled people. Just make certain they aren't sport fighters (cause then we get our asses kicked -- after all, that stuff is made for the ring and what we do is too d3adly and made for "th3 str33t"). It's best to stick with other kung fu, karate, 52 blocks, etc. people.

[Phil Redmond]

Yeah, what does it matter if you box and don't use a jab, cross, or hook?

I am absolutely certain that YOU don't care. What does it matter that you aren't using WCK movement? We should be able to do whatever we like and simply call it WCK, right? The important thing isn't what we do, it is the buzzwords and phrases -- or, to put it in vernacular, "concepts" -- we use. Then we can do anything and use our buzzwords, er I mean "concepts", to validate it.

But it's vitally important that we should go "fight" with other unskilled people. Just make certain they aren't sport fighters (cause then we get our asses kicked -- after all, that stuff is made for the ring and what we do is too d3adly and made for "th3 str33t"). It's best to stick with other kung fu, karate, 52 blocks, etc. people.
Post a clip of you showing a better way. Until that happens your posts mean very little to me.

[Knifefighter]

T- Thanks for letting me know what I was doing was superficial Ving Tsun. I actually never knew that. Please do come to Hong Kong and show me what REAL Wing Chun is.

Actually, he does have a point. Unless your drills that you have done looked pretty much like the fighting you did in the clip, you have wasted your time.

"Real" anything is being able to use what you have done in practice almost exactly the same way when going all out in competition.

[wkmark]

Thanks for your support Phil.


It's good that you got out there and fought. So what if some guy who never posts a clip of himself criticizes what you do. Keep training a fighting. Wing Chun is what comes out of a Wing Chun man. Who cares if you didn't do a tan, fook or whatever. :)

[wkmark]

Knifighther- while sometimes I don't agree to some of your concepts, I do agree to the below. Given this was my first ever full contact competition, I definitely look to polish up my skills a bit more for future competitions (which will be limited)





"Real" anything is being able to use what you have done in practice almost exactly the same way when going all out in competition.

[LoneTiger108]

Here is a video of a recent Ving Tsun Full Contact Competition. This was my first ever Full Contact competition. This was the 30- 50 years old 80 KG weight category. I was at 73 KG and my opponent about 80 KGS give and take. Age wise I am turning 37 and him either 39 or 40. I forgot.

The rules were no large whipping punches, no strikes to the neck, eyes, throat, back of the neck etc. No kicking below the knees, no round house kicks nor turning back kicks. Side kicks are allowed but no stepping side kicks. Grappling is not allowed and throw downs aren't allowed either. This was an event to try and kick off and promote a Ving Tsun Full Contact competition.

I am the person in RED. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iuvxmUJzEU

To be honest, the only thing I couldn't quite get my head around is the fact that kicks below the knee were not allowed, yet the shin guards were there! :confused:

Overall though, a good punch up but not what I would really want to see as a promotion of Wing Chun. Reminded me a little bit of Alan Orrs attempt at Seni a few years back. It should be a test of skill, not strength.

Not Wing Chun 'specific' enough form me, but a good crack anyhow. Good luck with future competitions! ;)

[wkmark]

The shin guards were there for the participants to block kicks with the shin. Since this was a private held event, thus every bit of protection was required to avoid injuries and insurance issues. You can't kick below the knee because there were people who were afraid that a strong stomp the to the shin will cause a devastating injury. As for the promotion of Wing Chun, yes this event is a baby step. As the organization matures and more events and competition are held, we may be able to see more test of skills or what nots.

There will be another competition in the month of September in Futshan. Hopefully we will get more competitors than the one in HK and be able to see other types of Wing Chun (not just the Yip Man lineage)


To be honest, the only thing I couldn't quite get my head around is the fact that kicks below the knee were not allowed, yet the shin guards were there! :confused:

Overall though, a good punch up but not what I would really want to see as a promotion of Wing Chun. Reminded me a little bit of Alan Orrs attempt at Seni a few years back. It should be a test of skill, not strength.

Not Wing Chun 'specific' enough form me, but a good crack anyhow. Good luck with future competitions! ;)