"A strong fighter is not one who always wins, but one who stands after defeat." [Archive]

Drake

09-05-2010, 01:15 PM

think Rocky Balboa said it better...

" Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done! Now if you know what you're worth then go out and get what you're worth. But ya gotta be willing to take the hits, and not pointing fingers saying you ain't where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody! Cowards do that and that ain't you! "

Syn7

09-05-2010, 05:19 PM

i dunno... i see what the quote is trying to say... but riddle me this: if you have a rock for a head and you take a vicious beating and dont even land one attack of your own, yet you walk away from it... are you a strong fighter???

no... you have a strong head, and maybe you are too headstrong to stay down when youre beat(yeah yeah no pun intended)... but a strong fighter? no...

if youre an athlete and you keep loosing close decisions top great fighters and whatnot, then yeah i'd say youre a strong fighter...

from a more metaphorical perspective, which is the intent im sure, its pretty valid... if losing makes you work harder, and if you hold your head up high after a fight then that could be considered strength... if you consider pride a strength, that is, and im not sure i do... i think it can be as much a weakness as a strength... yin and yang, right...

Hebrew Hammer

09-05-2010, 08:36 PM

Oh Daniel-san...that is not the Kobra Kai way!

Violent Designs

09-05-2010, 11:12 PM

if you don't know the answer to something... never hesitate to use violence.

if that still doesn't do the trick,

then you're clearly not USING ENOUGH.

Frost

09-06-2010, 04:58 AM

mystical clap trap the kind of thing said by people who never actually win anything

a strong fighter is one who learns from his losses but who goes on to dominate his opponents

Scott R. Brown

09-06-2010, 07:03 AM

mystical clap trap the kind of thing said by people who never actually win anything

a strong fighter is one who learns from his losses but who goes on to dominate his opponents

It depends upon how one defines winning. When I was in high school I was a State class swimmer, I won or placed, usually, in the top three nearly every race. I always admired my friends who never did as well as me, very rarely even placing, but they never gave up training, or trying. It is easy when you are always winning, it is much more difficult when you never win, but just keep trying anyway. To me that is where the example is.

Years ago a top Ironman athlete said, when asked about his success, "It is easy for me. I come out, go 2-2.5hrs and take a shower. It is those who are out here 4, 6, 8hrs that are the ones to admire. They have no hope of winning or even placing, but they are out here just the same, going until the end."

That was a paraphrase

So, is strength determined by a winning record, or by the quality of character? It is easy to win, it is much more difficult to keep losing but never give up!

Shaolin

09-06-2010, 08:29 AM

I think you guys watch too much television and play too many video games.

Scott R. Brown

09-06-2010, 09:27 AM

Everything I know I learned from Comic books!:p

TenTigers

09-06-2010, 12:27 PM

Hey Scott, I was also a Varsity swimmer, (backstroke) and also always placed in the top three (actually only took third twice, the rest firsts and seconds)
and there was this this one guy, who always swam "Unofficial." Unofficial was when there was an extra lane open, anyone could get in there and compete-no points, just to be in there. He was always happy to. I asked him why he always does it, and he says,"Look, I know I'm not as fast as you guys, but I just love getting in there!"
Swim team workouts sucked! They were grueling. (from what I can recall..)20 min warm-up continuous swimming-going for 72 laps (1 mile)
then stretching, push-ups and leg raises.
Then the workout started; 400's,100 pulls (arms only) 100 kicking, 100 freestyle,100breast, 100 IM, fifty's, 25's, the relays, and finally individual workouts (starts, flipturns,etc)
I hated the workout. It was never fun, always being pushed by the clock, the coach, the guy behind you.
This guy went through it all, every day, and never was first string-and he never quit. I really respected his attitude.

Lee Chiang Po

09-06-2010, 05:41 PM

Scott R. Brown

09-06-2010, 06:37 PM

Well, losing counts for squat. When in high school, I could swim faster and longer than anyone on the swim team. And I never trained at it. But, because I was a Chinaman they decided I could not be on their swim team. They lost every meet that they swam in, and they trained real hard each and every day. So much for losing. They were ridiculed by all. If you lose, you are a loser. Any way you look at it, you are a loser.

Only by people like you!

Losers in sports are ridiculed by people who need to identify with a winner because they are losers themselves. There are plenty of fans of professional football, baseball, soccer, basketball, etc. teams that never or rarely win.

It is very doubtful that you out swam trained swimmers.

Syn7

09-06-2010, 07:13 PM

there was this this one guy, who always swam "Unofficial." Unofficial was when there was an extra lane open, anyone could get in there and compete-no points, just to be in there. He was always happy to. I asked him why he always does it, and he says,"Look, I know I'm not as fast as you guys, but I just love getting in there!"

and thats real...any other motives would be purely competetive... i should hope everyone there did it for the love of the sport... its fun to compete, in general, but you would think the smart cookies would compete in sports they actually love, not just ones theyre good at or maybe had their parents pushed them into... the latter being pretty sad IMO... nothing worse than trying to relive your youth through your children... its ok to get caught up and live vicariously through them to an extent, but a small extent... once that vicariousness starts dictating terms, you are screwing up your kids... nothing worse than violent hocky dads... brutal...

but yeah, thats awesome that the guy came out and went at it everytime... i bet he was a happy person... miserable people dont do stuff like that:D

Kansuke

09-06-2010, 09:43 PM

People who aren't as good learn to set their sights lower, but they still want to win. All this "winning isn't important" crap is crap.

bawang

09-07-2010, 05:25 AM

1. do forms
2. ?
3. win

Dragonzbane76

09-07-2010, 09:00 AM

I like your number 2 option bawang.

Scott R. Brown

09-07-2010, 09:04 AM

People who aren't as good learn to set their sights lower, but they still want to win. All this "winning isn't important" crap is crap.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what it is like to race against the clock.

To many runners, swimmers, rowers and members of other sports where the clock is a factor, winning without improving your time is not very satisfying. Any time you improve your personal best, regardless of whether you win the event or not, is still a win!

In fact I am always more interested in improving my skills and abilities than in winning.

Syn7

09-07-2010, 09:13 AM

yeah even on my daily run... i started off prettty slow... it was fun to watch the time get better and better...

sanjuro_ronin

09-07-2010, 10:45 AM

goju

09-07-2010, 11:41 AM

oh how i loathe all that fortune cookie **** in martial arts

David Jamieson

09-07-2010, 11:48 AM

In sports, it's about winning.

In life or death it's about winning.

When developing a skill, it's about developing the skill and learning.

spouting platitudes to ease someones regret after being a loser in a sport.... that's a waste of time. lol

If you're in a fight, honestly, you don't want to lose. You want to win, or get away, but losing? There's nothing gained there except a lesson that maybe you shouldn't fight or if you are going to fight, you should train better for it. lol

KC Elbows

09-07-2010, 12:10 PM

If you have to use your fists much in life, you are probably a loser.

If you won a lot in sports in high school, odds are even you're an overweight loser now.

All pithy sayings aside.

Winners are social creatures. They use numbers to overwhelm all opposition while doing nothing themselves. We're a few millenium past the point where individual effort mattered.

If you don't have ninjas, the guys with ninjas call you a scrub.:D

David Jamieson

09-07-2010, 12:21 PM

I have ninjas.

and, i have nachos & cheese

therefore, my kung fu is strong.

sanjuro_ronin

09-07-2010, 12:23 PM

No matter how good you are, there is always someone better.
But until he arrives, lets tear this universe a new black hole !!!

Lucas

09-07-2010, 01:37 PM

There is an old samurai adage; seven times down, eight times up. in direct connection to samurai this deals with being ronin and the path to becoming a true retainer. but i think in regards to competing in anything or life in general, this signifies that perseverance through trials paves the way for greatness, success, and ultimately, personal fullfilment.

KC Elbows

09-07-2010, 01:40 PM

I believe "have a rich daddy" is a more reliable system in most cases.:D

David Jamieson

09-07-2010, 01:41 PM

perseverance is one thing, but don't ever be satisfied with losing.

KC Elbows

09-07-2010, 02:02 PM

As is spoken in some Pai, "The winning quarterback's girfriend is often lonely and needs attention." This is known as Pie De.

Syn7

09-07-2010, 02:13 PM

In life or death it's about winning.

its about living... and if a draw or a no contest mean you live, your good... in life or death situations my focus is on surviving, not winning... surviving may mean winning, but not always...

Syn7

09-07-2010, 02:14 PM

No matter how good you are, there is always someone better.
But until he arrives, lets tear this universe a new black hole !!!

nice.............:D

Kansuke

09-07-2010, 02:43 PM

If you won a lot in sports in high school, odds are even you're an overweight loser now.

Ah~ someone didn't make the team...

TenTigers

09-07-2010, 02:56 PM

Winners are social creatures. They use numbers to overwhelm all opposition while doing nothing themselves. We're a few millenium past the point where individual effort mattered.

not sure if I agree with that.
Swimming, wrestling, gymnastics,fighting, forms, etc all these are individual sports
Even when I was on the swim "team," it was just me in my individual lane.

KC Elbows

09-07-2010, 03:15 PM

not sure if I agree with that.
Swimming, wrestling, gymnastics,fighting, forms, etc all these are individual sports
Even when I was on the swim "team," it was just me in my individual lane.

I get what you're saying, and highly respect the effort.

But...

in being human, a social creature, the ones considered at the top have people. Only in fiction do they do without, and those fictions are told by many.

The winners in life generally have the respect of people, or the admiration of people, or the power of people. That this may come from individul qualities is one thing, but if they don't make it with the group, they don't make it.

KC Elbows

09-07-2010, 03:19 PM

Ah~ someone didn't make the team...

Honestly, I should have joined more teams in school, it can be a good experience, and I was too busy smoking pot most of that time. But, I was also sought out by coaches, so I don't think I was likely to not make their teams, just likely to be cut for getting in trouble.:D

I'm not saying there's nothing to victory in sports, but there's also a reason that the stereotype of the grown high school sports star is a fat bald car salesman.

David Jamieson

09-07-2010, 03:39 PM

the more you excuse yourself for your failures, the more you will continue to practice at failing.

seriously guys...and girls if there are any here.

winning doesn't have to mean crushing someone. It means succeeding at what you want to succeed at.

move past your failures, but don't make excuses for them. they're failures, recognize and move on and do better.

losing is failure. pretty cut and dried and no need to wrap crap around it. It won't smell better with more **** piled on it. :)

Kansuke

09-07-2010, 04:12 PM

I'm not saying there's nothing to victory in sports, but there's also a reason that the stereotype of the grown high school sports star is a fat bald car salesman.

Yes, the reason is that all the little losers who couldn't make the team grow up to be bitter, insecure adults who promote such stereotypes.

Kansuke

09-07-2010, 04:13 PM

winning doesn't have to mean crushing someone.

But it's more fun when it does.

Yum Cha

09-07-2010, 05:41 PM

oh how i loathe all that fortune cookie **** in martial arts

How'z zis:

"There's no "I" in Team,
but there is in Winner,
which proves there's is an "F" 'n A$$hole.

Syn7

09-07-2010, 07:06 PM

Honestly, I should have joined more teams in school, it can be a good experience, and I was too busy smoking pot most of that time. But, I was also sought out by coaches, so I don't think I was likely to not make their teams, just likely to be cut for getting in trouble.:D

I'm not saying there's nothing to victory in sports, but there's also a reason that the stereotype of the grown high school sports star is a fat bald car salesman.

yeah i wish i did more sports too... i wrestled and smoked pot:rolleyes: and in my senior highschool the wrestling program was sad... junior high was so competetive... grade 11 and 12, weak... i quit.... to smoke pot... unfortunately... but i picked it up again after highschool, so it all worked out... i like the perspective i have on cma after first being a grappler... i still enjoy bjj and muay thai too, even if i am working pretty much only on bak mei for now... and ive slacked this last month... my own lazy being non productive ramadan, so to speak...;)

Kansuke

09-07-2010, 08:15 PM

You quit wrestling to smoke pot?!

Hate yourself.

Syn7

09-07-2010, 08:37 PM

You quit wrestling to smoke pot?!

Hate yourself.

well no, i quit because we didnt have much of a team, it wasnt challenging and i was young and stupid and ended up quitting and all thru this i smoked pot... so yeah... i didnt quit for pot... but i smoked pot before during and after none the less...

beating the same people over and over just got old... i was the smallest guy on the team and i was the best on the team... in junior high i wasnt, so it was more fun... senior high, i was winning against guys that had 25 pounds on me in practice... it just got old real fast due to a complete lack of anything challenging... i still wish i kept it up tho...

i came back to grappling later tho...

Kansuke

09-07-2010, 09:43 PM

You didn't compete against other schools?

Yum Cha

09-07-2010, 10:01 PM

You quit wrestling to smoke pot?!

Hate yourself.

I quit High School Tae Kwon Do to chase tail...

Never regretted that decision...

Syn7

09-07-2010, 11:27 PM

You didn't compete against other schools?

yeah but at the time there werent many other schools that competed in our district or surrounding districts... it didnt take long to meet everyone... it was just so dissapointing compared to the other programs i was in... different areas... without getting into details, the competition sucked... and ofcourse outside of practice i was in my own weightclass only... when i moved back into the city i was in a diff kind of school that had no sports programs what so ever...

KC Elbows

09-08-2010, 06:05 AM

Yes, the reason is that all the little losers who couldn't make the team grow up to be bitter, insecure adults who promote such stereotypes.

Nope. It's because our culture mostly produces fat people. And a guy who trains harder for the same fat end ain't a winner because of a dusty old trophy.

Those who stay fit and active as they get older are the exceptions, in our culture. Most of the "jocks" I know who stayed fit as they aged were not succesful in their sports in youth, and are a bit obsessed with a glory they never had, which keeps them more fit than most of the star athletes from my youth.

ALL the former pro football players I've known, however, have been fat due to heinous injuries and an inability to workout anymore to any great extent. Different thing, there. They loved the game, and were willing to make the sacrifice. Winning has costs, everything does.

LOL at a middle aged guy running around the internet acting like a db online suggesting others are bitter solely for the attention of twelve year olds and accolades of online geeks .

brothernumber9

09-08-2010, 07:03 AM

Winning as learned through Taladega Nights:

TR: "Chip I'm gonna come at you like a spider monkey!"......

Chip: "You gonna let your sons talk to their grandfather like that? I'm their elder!"

RB: "I sure as hell am Chip! I love the way they're talkin to you! Cuz they're winners, winners get to do what they want!"

Kansuke

09-08-2010, 07:45 AM

Nope. It's because our culture mostly produces fat people. And a guy who trains harder for the same fat end ain't a winner because of a dusty old trophy.

Those who stay fit and active as they get older are the exceptions, in our culture. Most of the "jocks" I know who stayed fit as they aged were not succesful in their sports in youth, and are a bit obsessed with a glory they never had, which keeps them more fit than most of the star athletes from my youth.

ALL the former pro football players I've known, however, have been fat due to heinous injuries and an inability to workout anymore to any great extent. Different thing, there. They loved the game, and were willing to make the sacrifice. Winning has costs, everything does.

LOL at a middle aged guy running around the internet acting like a db online suggesting others are bitter solely for the attention of twelve year olds and accolades of online geeks .

And Susie wouldn't go to the dance with you either? That is just sad.

KC Elbows

09-08-2010, 08:16 AM

And Susie wouldn't go to the dance with you either? That is just sad.t

Oh, flaming, cool. Could we get Knifefighter involved, I love to hear him tell stories about how he killed nazis in the big one.

sanjuro_ronin

09-08-2010, 08:21 AM

Maybe you two could get a room?

Iron_Eagle_76

09-09-2010, 06:25 AM

To quote Sir Sean Connery:

"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and fu**ck the prom queen!!:D

Yum Cha

09-09-2010, 04:28 PM

To quote Sir Sean Connery:

"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and fu**ck the prom queen!!:D

LOL.... The laurel's of victory resting between the prom queen's legs.....

Victory is a cruel mistress to some people. Once you've done the Prom Queen, and the Pep Squad, half a troupe of Ballet Dancers and a kinky catwalk model with kinky friends, what's next? (Right...Breakfast!)

You suggest take up sport?? Spend all your free party time with sweaty blokes?? And those ungodly morning training sessions? Just for some trophy's, or ribbons? (OK, guilty as charged, but I have a note from my Mum.)

People get unduly inflated by victory and unduly defalted by defeat. There are so many planes to measure it on, and so many perspectives to compare to. One man's victory is another man's defeat.

For example, you're out with the Prom Queen on Thursday and she run's into the Ex, well, soon to be Ex, he's a little feisty, whatcha gonna do? You want the Prom Queen, or you want the Victory? LOL... Yea, you want both, fair enough...

...well, it may depend on the kind of girl too....:D

You can win on one plane, and lose on another as a result is my point.

As the saying goes, cherish your victories and learn from your failure, but the road is long and in the end you only compete against yourself.

Success is the mature older brother of victory that's learned to control his ego.