Annual CLF FIGHTING tournament?

[Violent Designs]

Full contact, 3 (or 5) round type of deal. Or shorter rounds, elimination format, type of deal. The rules could be modified Sanda or Muay Thai rules, or something of that nature. Striking only, maybe with throws, clinching, knees. Perhaps no knees/elbows to the head, I think that is not a big deal. Maybe headgear and shin guards will be required, but that's not a big deal either. The fact is, we need to fight.... I feel like there are many good fighters in CLF, but still not like before, the old days. Also, we are far apart in the country and world.

Maybe something similar to Kyokushin (and their offshoot) style competitions/tournaments.

Why can't this be done?

I want to do this, maybe not now, but someday I wanna do something like this. For the refinement and evolution of CLF. To bring together those who fight, and train this style for fighting.

Why don't we do it?

Thoughts and comments are appreciated.

-V

[PM]

trying something similar in Hung Ga Kyun, see http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=955 ...

[Violent Designs]

trying something similar in Hung Ga Kyun, see http://www.hungkyun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=955 ...

PM, I have always respected what you had to say. Even though we never spoke much.

Regardless this is something I believe Chinese martial art should have. No, beyond that. This is something that we NEED in order to weed gain back respect from the global martial art community, as well as establish the FACT that our styles are capable of being used in an intense, pressurized, full-contact situation. Maybe it will be 3, 5, or even 1 long-ass round. Those are the details which need to be discussed at length.

However, why can't we (as Hung Kuen and CLF) establish standards for which practitioners of these styles can test themselves in? Why can't there be a standard to which "fighting skill" is measured? Not just as an abstract concept, or something that only your Sifu and classmates know. But a standard that your entire style, other students, and other schools can look and see? Of course Hung and CLF are two different styles. I don't wish to carry over a format better for CLF as something for Hung Kuen. You know, all the CMA styles are so different, even with similar ones. We need to set our own standards first, before worrying about cross-style competition. If all the different sects of Karate can do it... hell, what's so **** difficult that we can't do it?

I don't see this straying away from our systems being "traditional." Yes such events are competitive, and competition breeds ego and pride. But let's be real also, most people who are very good fighters have pride. Maybe not ego, but pride in their abilities, I'm sure. And for those who are living the Martial Way as a lifestyle, great! WE CAN GIVE THEM A FACILITY TO TEST THEIR FINELY-HONED, HARD-EARNED SKILLS.

If say, there is an AMAZING Choy Lay Fut fighter somewhere in this world, and he decides to participate, and beats up everybody else bloody, that person should be recognized for his actions. He has taken CLF to a level that the other fighters have not (just as an example), perhaps. And maybe we can see OK, this is how he trained, how his Sifu taught, the way the prepared for the fighting competition...

Eventually - not immediately, or even soon. Maybe it will take many years, but EVENTUALLY - people will strive to be better, in my opinion. People will train harder, more effectively, and more efficiently. The fighting will be back as one of the most important aspects of Gung Fu. Fighting schools WILL BE RECOGNIZED for producing fighters, and non-fighting schools will NOT be recognized for any such thing.

This is... we need a standard. We need a way to test ourselves, amongst our own family. This isn't about MMA, or Kung Fu vs. Muay Thai, or Kung Fu vs. Karate. This is about fighting the fighting blood, about evolving, becoming better than before, faster, stronger, smarter.

-V

[Frost]

dont you see something wrong though in having to design a format specifically for one style, whats to stop you simply using standard sanda rules? CLF as i trained it has overhands, upper cuts hooks jabs and crosses round kicks and throws so why not simply use those rules? If you want to limit it to just CLF students fine and I can understand not wanting to go MMA and have ground fighting but why cant you use standard formates already in place?

[Violent Designs]

dont you see something wrong though in having to design a format specifically for one style, whats to stop you simply using standard sanda rules? CLF as i trained it has overhands, upper cuts hooks jabs and crosses round kicks and throws so why not simply use those rules? If you want to limit it to just CLF students fine and I can understand not wanting to go MMA and have ground fighting but why cant you use standard formates already in place?

I personally, strongly dislike Sanda rules. Many Sanda fighters are not that skilled at striking and resort to using throws (huge point scorers) to win matches. It's pretty bullsh1t if you ask me!!! In a striking art someone can win mostly by throws, it's stupid. We have Shuai Jiao matches in China and Judo competitions in Japan, thank you very much.

CLF is primarily a striking art, that includes throws. Sanda, in certain circumstances, almost becomes a throwing art with strikes (fighter-dependent).

And I don't see something wrong with designing a specific FULL-CONTACT ruleset for a specific style. In our case this is CHOY LAY FUT.

Kyokushin rules are different from Enshin rules are different from Daido Juku rules are different from Ashihara rules are different from Budokai rules. But ALL are FULL-CONTACT KARATE.

[Eric Olson]

How can you design a sparring format for the Sao Cheui, when the main target is the neck?

EO

[TenTigers]

How can you design a sparring format for the Sao Cheui, when the main target is the neck?

EO
deep-sea diving helmets..?:)

[Violent Designs]

How can you design a sparring format for the Sao Cheui, when the main target is the neck?

EO

I think this question is completely irrelevant... you realize that in kickboxing/Thai boxing people get shins slammed onto their head/neck all the time right?

If you can land a KO sau choy on somebody's NECK then more power to you... but more likely than not you won't. Because people are A. moving and B. defending. Landing a clean sau choy on the head takes enough skill as is.

[hskwarrior]

Eric Olson doesn't know how to use a sow choy ANYWAY. plus, he's not even a CLF guy anymore.

STFU ERIC FOOL POW

[Violent Designs]

Like Sanjuro_Ronin once said, in FULL-CONTACT COMPETITION where you hit is where you hit. Unless there is a clear "foul" or "intentional illegal technique" people don't really care.

If you KO someone by hitting them on/near the neck area, then most likely you will just get that, a KO victory.

Now if you go around eyepoking and groin kicking people ON PURPOSE then you will get disqualified.

I've been to A LOT of Muay Thai fights since I've been living in California.

[jesper]

why not just put on helmet, breastplate and mma gloves and let people fight til one taps out or are knocked out.

your supposed to study martial art or selfdefense. whichever sounds best to you.

People tends to overcomplicate things:rolleyes:

[bawang]

traditional kung fu is not a contest of skill. its a contest of manliness. kung fu is not a science its a primitive backward violent village ritual. i accept that and embrace it, my conscience is free.

im from a village and having experienced backward village life its easy for me to understand and accept that, and even love that.
but for a long haired metrosexual chinese from cities, thats embarrasing and backwards. for an american thats disgusting. too third world, too foreign, too dirty, too national geographic.



if u want ur fighting to look like choy lee fut its easy. go berzerk and throw huge haymakers and dont be scared.

[Violent Designs]

if u want ur fighting to look like choy lee fut its easy. go berzerk and throw huge haymakers and dont be scared.

man, i love waking up to the fresh philosophical insight of bawang.

now, OFF TO TRAINING!

[hskwarrior]

How can you design a sparring format for the Sao Cheui, when the main target is the neck?

EO

eric olson is an effin dumb arse!!!!! CLF does NOT miss you dude.

[Violent Designs]

eric olson is an effin dumb arse!!!!! CLF does NOT miss you dude.

In full-contact fighting, nobody cares if you hit on the neck.

When you're opponent is roughly around the same skill level, size, strength and reach hitting them in the neck with a CLEAN sau chui is much harder said than done.

And if you get the KO by a neck-shot.... umm, congrats, you won?

I'm not talking about some ***** ass point sparring or even this "continuous sparring" bullsh1t.....

[Eric Olson]

I think this question is completely irrelevant... you realize that in kickboxing/Thai boxing people get shins slammed onto their head/neck all the time right?

If you can land a KO sau choy on somebody's NECK then more power to you... but more likely than not you won't. Because people are A. moving and B. defending. Landing a clean sau choy on the head takes enough skill as is.

Kaap chui would be the correct technique for the head/face, not sau cheui. You'll hurt your hand otherwise.

EO

[nospam]

man..you're fighting at arm's length then.

nospam.
:cool:

[hskwarrior]

Kaap chui would be the correct technique for the head/face, not sau cheui. You'll hurt your hand otherwise.


MORE PROOF ITS A GOOD THING YOU LEFT CLF!!!!!!!!! just shut up. you r so clueless

[Violent Designs]

Kaap chui would be the correct technique for the head/face, not sau cheui. You'll hurt your hand otherwise.

EO

Why can't you not use the forearm and hit the head... it's like a hook, it comes from the side.

Also from my experience the technique "kup chui" and "sau chui" are even used interchangeably.

For one, my teacher calls sau chui what some other branches might call sau chui.

To be honest with 8-12 oz. BOXING gloves on I'd rather throw a hard hook or overhand and hit with the two first big knuckles, than using either sau or kup chui.

[hskwarrior]

we have three types of sow choy's

[Eric Olson]

Why can't you not use the forearm and hit the head... it's like a hook, it comes from the side.

Also from my experience the technique "kup chui" and "sau chui" are even used interchangeably.

For one, my teacher calls sau chui what some other branches might call sau chui.

To be honest with 8-12 oz. BOXING gloves on I'd rather throw a hard hook or overhand and hit with the two first big knuckles, than using either sau or kup chui.

You'd have to have adamantium bones to hit someone in the skull with your forearm without breaking it!

A general goal of kung fu is to hurt the opponent worse than you hurt yourself. The old maxim is "hard hits soft and soft hits hard." That means keeping bone on bone contact to a minimum

EO

[Eric Olson]

man..you're fighting at arm's length then.

nospam.
:cool:

:confused:

Aren't you always fighting at arms length...or "legs length" if you're a good kicker?

EO

[Violent Designs]

You'd have to have adamantium bones to hit someone in the skull with your forearm without breaking it!

A general goal of kung fu is to hurt the opponent worse than you hurt yourself. The old maxim is "hard hits soft and soft hits hard." That means keeping bone on bone contact to a minimum

EO

A forearm is harder than a fist...

So they my fist should also break hitting someone in the face right?

Fighting is rough and unpredictable. It is violence and chaotic.

Sometimes there is no option other than taking a shot to give one of your own.

You cannot check kicks without bruising up your shin.

You cannot intercept strikes without stick your forearm out, chuen sau.

You're being far too picky about "where you will hit" and "where you will strike." To be a fighter you have to keep the action going even after you get hurt. I remember I hit my foot against someone's elbow in sparring when throwing a kick. It hurt like a *****, even with shin guards on. But what should I have done? Quit? No, keep the action going, continue the combination and attack.

I hit you in the face with my fist, it hurt, OK. Ignore that pain and continue the action until you have won. Fighting is not just about giving pain, it's about taking it, ignoring it to the best of your abilities, and going through with it after that.

In a fight if my strike lands, I am already grateful for my training and skill. Even if the impact hurt me, as long as it it HURT THE OTHER GUY MORE, I am grateful. We cannot pick and choose so carefully. There is always the theory behind everything, but in a fight you have to take what you get.

You're lucky because you have height/reach over everyone else but I don't have that luxury. You can spam thrust kicks and jabs all day if you have to. I can't, I need to get into using very invasive footwork and hit brutally fast and hard with high frequency and heavy penetration in order to hurt someone big and tough. And if I'm good at taking a punch... I have good toughness? Maybe I will survive and be the winner/survivor.

[bawang]

wot kind tranings r u doings
mang

[Violent Designs]

wot kind tranings r u doings
mang

thai boxing and buk sing le.....

i used to get punched a lot in the face. :(

but, a lot less now after learning blocking with my face is a bad idea. :D

[Violent Designs]

You'd have to have adamantium bones to hit someone in the skull with your forearm without breaking it!

A general goal of kung fu is to hurt the opponent worse than you hurt yourself. The old maxim is "hard hits soft and soft hits hard." That means keeping bone on bone contact to a minimum

EO

Eric, that is one maxim. As such I must strongly disagree with you on this subject.

Another one would be to use hard against hard. If you have put in more training and are harder than your opponent, you will be the victor.

There is one method in Thai Boxing, of wearing your opponent's defenses down by repeatedly slamming your shin against their guard (forearms). Eventually this dumbs their arms and forces them to drop the defenses, and you have penetrated and can now go for the kill. That is one example of hard on hard. Shin on shin blocking, is also hard against hard. The one with the better conditioned body wins.

I would also believe that MANY Hung Kuen practitioners would vehemently disagree with your opinion that bone-on-bone contact should be kept to a minimal.

This may be advocated in Taiji Quan, but please do not act as if this is the only adage which holds true across ALL Chinese martial arts.

As you well know, Chinese arts differ in the hundreds and one art's method may be completely alien, or even contradictory, to those found in another art. This does not just end in fighting methods or techniques, but also underlying essence; the theories and philosophies of the art.

My honest opinion is that there is no one way. Combat is chaotic, dynamic, and violent. Only using one method may work at times, but ultimately you will have your failures if you cannot adjust during the motions of body movement, fists flying into your face, and the pain your opponent will inflict upon you.

[hskwarrior]

You'd have to have adamantium bones to hit someone in the skull with your forearm without breaking it!

well, for one, isn't this why we practice 3 star blocking? to toughen our arms for this type of contact? additionally, the head isn't going to remain still...its going to move with the strike or get moved by the strike. hit the back of the neck, the side of the neck or strike him on the side of the head. i don't see an issue with that.


A general goal of kung fu is to hurt the opponent worse than you hurt yourself. The old maxim is "hard hits soft and soft hits hard."

that sounds like some taichi philosophy. LOL.


There is one method in Thai Boxing, of wearing your opponent's defenses down by repeatedly slamming your shin against their guard (forearms). Eventually this dumbs their arms and forces them to drop the defenses, and you have penetrated and can now go for the kill. That is one example of hard on hard. Shin on shin blocking, is also hard against hard. The one with the better conditioned body wins.

one of my favorite sweeps is shin to shin. but we all must realize if you don't condition your limbs you can end up like this dude right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHKfslaMXuk

but look, this is the whole reason why he left CLF anyway. its just not for fu pow.

[Eric Olson]

I would also believe that MANY Hung Kuen practitioners would vehemently disagree with your opinion that bone-on-bone contact should be kept to a minimal.

The phrase used in Hung Kuen is a body like "steel wrapped in cotton"...key word being cotton.




This may be advocated in Taiji Quan, but please do not act as if this is the only adage which holds true across ALL Chinese martial arts.

It's a pretty universal Chinese Martial Arts maxim, not specific to any style.

[darkie1973]

Gonna have to agree with hskwarrior,.... I'm not Choy Li Fut,... tibetan white crane,.... but we do share many similar techniques. Put simply,.... what the heck is 4 star arms training for BUT VIOLENT BONE ON BONE CLASHING for conditioning in defence and offense (limb destruction.) There's all kind of poetic chinese sayings about this and that,... the chinese are a poetic people (their **** medical texts and cook books read like friggin' poetry for god's sake,) but I don't always got time for poems when I'm to trying kick someones ass! My teacher (who's also an ex-army ranger) used to say: "There's philosophers and there's fighters,.... every one's got a plan,.... 'til they get punched in the face!":eek:

[hskwarrior]

'til they get punched in the face!"


eggzachery

[Violent Designs]

The phrase used in Hung Kuen is a body like "steel wrapped in cotton"...key word being cotton.

You are intentionally leaving out the steel aspect? Some Hung guys may play it harder, some softer. But I have never met ONE SINGLE Hung Kuen practitioner who was afraid of a little "bone-on-bone" action. Have you? In fact, most Hung Kuen guys seem to welcome it... with a lot of malicious intent.

My former Hung Kuen sifu was a big fan of fukcing you up by bashing your arms to death with his arms, because that route did the most damage, cut your defenses down and hurt you at the same time. Are you saying his method is incorrect?


It's a pretty universal Chinese Martial Arts maxim, not specific to any style.

Then the burden of proof is on you to prove that is a "generic Chinese martial art maxim." Furthermore you are using one SIMPLE statement to try and describe fighting, which is complex, chaotic, and violent (I already said this...). It is not so SIMPLE as merely "use soft to overcome hard, use hard to overcome soft." These are all relativistic concepts; in a fight you must try to impose your strategy, your style, your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses. This is another "definition" behind this maxim. However you are interpreting it at FACE-VALUE. There is more than that.

Also, you ignored the other points I made regarding using your shin to check kicks, using your kicks to break down guards, to weaken the forearm and defenses. You were in Choy Lay Fut for a long time, surely you understand the underlying concept behind using a gwa chui or a sau chui to smash the guard of your opponent to FORCE the gate open? You may not like it, use it, or even disagree with how healthy the concept is... but would you really go so far as to say the concept and technique is WRONG or DOESN'T WORK? Because it clearly does.
Are you saying that checking a kick with your shin is WRONG? Tell that to the Thai boxers who have been checking kicks with shin-to-shin action for generations now.

In Muay Thai having a tough body is fundamental, because it is assumed you WILL be kicked, you WILL be punched, you WILL get kneed and elbowed. To always think that "soft will overcome hard, hard will overcome soft" is a fatal mistake. You can try, you may even succeed most of the time but... for those times when it DOES NOT WORK, you HAVE TO BE CONDITIONED TO TAKE THE BLOW AND CONTINUE THE ACTION.

What will you do if you can't catch a kick coming at you? If you can't grab the guy? If you're slower than him? If you cannot move away and evade in time? Will you just LET THE GUY KICK YOU IN THE THIGH, OR THE BODY? Will you say "I'm going to use my soft muscles to block his shin because I don't want my shin to get hurt as well?"

No, that's a disaster waiting to happen. You check the god****ed kick, you swallow the pain, and you continue the action because you are currently fighting. Do I enjoy banging my fists and arms and shins against theirs? Sometimes I even get an elbow on my shin or foot due to them blocking and spiking it. It hurts A LOT. But I prepare myself for these things, they are bound to happen. Martial arts can only be truly practiced in a full-contact environment. You cannot expect to always prevail, to have everything go your way, but I'm sure you already know this.

Eric, I am not arguing with you regarding philosophy or what is healthy, good for longevity, good for health when you're 90 years old, good for meditation, good for your psychology. Ii am only talking about the raw, gritty techniques in a real fight. **** happens, contact is made, and most of the time you CANNOT DO A THING ABOUT IT. Your opponent is trying to HURT you, and you are trying to do the same. There are techniques, which are high percentage, do damage, prevent damage being done to you, allow you to intercept/negate most of the damage (but still take some) and counterattack, etc. THESE are the things I am referring to.

Lots of styles believe in honing the body, or parts of the body to become deadly weapons. Southern Mantis and Bak mei vigorously conditions the Phoenix-Eye Fist. Buk Sing is obsessed with the Panther Fist. Muay Thai focuses on conditioning the shin, knees, and elbows. Most southern kung fu does A LOT of conditioning of the forearm through saam sing and other exercises. A lot of styles use neigong for IRON BODY and such, in order to WITHSTAND BLOWS.

Are you claiming that all of these methods are wrong for combat? They are inferior to your own methods or concepts derived from either your CLF training, your Taiji training, or any other training you have done or stopped doing? Because that is quite arrogant to say. We have not met in many years but in all seriousness and honesty how much new things have you learned since say, four years ago? Have you been sparring and fighting regularly? I used to be a fukcing noob but in the past three years have made a lot of progress, and have gotten my ass BEAT countless times to the point where I'm forced to look at fighting and martial arts as honestly as possible with as much humility as possible. I am competing, albeit I'm just an amateur, but when I have a guy in front of me trying to KNOCK ME THE FUKC OUT I am kinda forced to respond in favor, I have to hurt him first and harder than he can hurt me. But you seem to still be looking down at everyone else who does it "differently" than you yourself, this is not me talking sh1t but an honest opinion just from reading your posts. Of course, I know you better than that but four years is a long time and people can change quickly.

I've said my piece because you seem only interested in provoking argument or playing devil's advocate for the sake of being devil's advocate. Either that or you genuinely look down at everyone else's methodologies. It's late and I have nothing to do so this is everything I have to say. I'm not going to argue anymore; my thread has already been massively derailed thanks to all those involved. I will probably make a new one sometime.

[Eric Olson]

It is not so SIMPLE as merely "use soft to overcome hard, use hard to overcome soft."

That's a Taiji phrase (which BTW is usually misinterpreted).

But that's not what I wrote. The phrase was "hard hits soft and soft hits hard." In other words, hit soft targets with hard body parts and hard targets with soft body parts.

It's really just common sense when you think about it...chinese mysticism not required.

EO

[Violent Designs]

My thigh is soft. Should I start blicking low kicks with my yhigh then?

Stop avoiding my oyher questions man, I'm trying to have a legitimate conversation. I've made my rebuttals so make yours or I've won this argument by default of you not responding.

Once again, is my Hung Ga sifu's approach wrong?

Is it wrong to force open the gates by using gwa, sau, been chui or using other bodyparts e.g. elbow, knee, or shin to SMASH AGAINST your opponent's hard gate/bones?

Is the CONCEPT of using bridges to smash your opponent's wrong? The adage of "I attack your attack" causing pain, discomfort and damage?

I am NOT SAYING these are the only ways or even the best ways. Of course avoiding unecessary damage is the best course of action but... if you cannot, would rather be prepaired to handle the pain or not? Do you suggest giving up instead? Never training to clash bones?

In this case your best bet is to study BJJ, shuai jiao, wrestling or jujutsu.....

[Eric Olson]

My thigh is soft. Should I start blicking low kicks with my yhigh then?

How would you block a low kick with your thigh???

EO

[Violent Designs]

Answer my question first and I'll answer yours.

[Knifefighter]

That's a Taiji phrase (which BTW is usually misinterpreted).

But that's not what I wrote. The phrase was "hard hits soft and soft hits hard." In other words, hit soft targets with hard body parts and hard targets with soft body parts.

It's really just common sense when you think about it...chinese mysticism not required.

EO

No it's not common sense. Common sense is that hitting a hard body part with a soft one pretty much does nothing. Hitting any body part with a hard one always does the most damage.

And you can pretty much forget about doing damage to anyone who has half a clue by hitting them in the neck.

[Violent Designs]

Hitting a hard body part with a soft one pretty much does nothing. Hitting any body part with a hard one always does the most damage.

And you can pretty much forget about doing damage to anyone who has half a clue by hitting them in the neck.

This is what I said... people about your skill level are not stupid, if they are TRAINED FIGHTERS (which is what the general idea that I had).

And if you actually land that and KO someone then congratulations. You did your job!!! :)

[Eric Olson]

No it's not common sense. Common sense is that hitting a hard body part with a soft one pretty much does nothing. Hitting any body part with a hard one always does the most damage.

You are taking that too literally. I don't mean you should try to hit someone with your earlobe.



And you can pretty much forget about doing damage to anyone who has half a clue by hitting them in the neck.

How so?

EO

[Eric Olson]

Answer my question first and I'll answer yours.

Which one?

EO

[Knifefighter]

You are taking that too literally. I don't mean you should try to hit someone with your earlobe.

Tell ya what. Try an experiment. Grab someone and have this contest with them. You can trade hits with him. Hit him in the back of the head as hard as you can with your palm. Then he gets to strike you as hard as he can in the back of your head with his elbow. Keep trading off hits. Guess who is going to have to quit first.




Really, how so?

Here's another experiment for you. Enter an amateur MMA event. See how well you do striking someone in the neck. You'll quickly find it doesn't work so well.

[Eric Olson]

Tell ya what. Try an experiment. Grab someone and have this contest with them. You can trade hits with him. Hit him in the back of the head as hard as you can with your palm. Then he gets to strike you as hard as he can in the back of your head with his elbow. Keep trading off hits. Guess who is going to have to quit first.

Fair enough. Now do it with your fist or forearm. Who will quit first?



Here's another experiment for you. Enter an amateur MMA event. See how well you do striking someone in the neck. You'll quickly find it doesn't work so well.

I don't see a lot of Sao Cheui's in MMA, which is the topic of discussion.

[Violent Designs]

I don't see a lot of Sao Cheui's in MMA, which is the topic of discussion.

http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com/images/choy_lay_fut/ten_elements/10el_kup.jpg

This is a sau chui. :D

[Knifefighter]

Fair enough. Now do it with your fist or forearm. Who will quit first?

I don't know. I always use my elbow. That's the hardest, most durable surface to hit with. But go ahead and try it and let me know which lasted longest.




I don't see a lot of Sao Cheui's in MMA, which is the topic of discussion.
You don't see them because they don't work. If they were effective, people would use them. If there is one thing you can always say about an MMA fighter, he will take anything that works effectively and gives him an advantage.

[Eric Olson]

You don't see them because they don't work. If they were effective, people would use them. If there is one thing you can always say about an MMA fighter, he will take anything that works effectively and gives him an advantage.

So just to be clear, your saying that a Sao Cheui is a completely ineffective technique?

[Violent Designs]

Using the forearm/bony part of the wrist to strike is actually a "trick" or "dirty tactic" used by a lot of experienced Thai boxers. (Although I would say, mostly in Thailand)

Just some food for thought. ;)

Oh and where they hit... in the side of the head, actually. So Eric, you're wrong about forearm hitting head being this terrible idea. Otherwise, nobody would be doing it!!!

[Knifefighter]

So just to be clear, your saying that a Sao Cheui is a completely ineffective technique?

To the neck? Yeah.

[TAO YIN]

Knife,

What works well on the neck, carotid artery, etc...besides chokes. Elbows from mount? Knives?

[Knifefighter]

Knife,

What works well on the neck, carotid artery, etc...besides chokes. Elbows from mount? Knives?

Chokes and blades... that's about it. Good luck trying to get an elbow to the neck from the mount. Even elbows to the back of the neck from the back mount generally don't do a whole lot other than open up for the choke.

Obviously, if you could actually hit the tracheal region, that would be damaging, but that's going to be pretty much accidental.

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEv6i-lhIWc

karate guy must have hit the black dude in his earlobe huh? see how ineffective a neck strike could be outside the ring? what can you guys be thinking?

[Knifefighter]

karate guy must have hit the black dude in his earlobe huh? see how ineffective a neck strike could be outside the ring? what can you guys be thinking?

1. That strike was more in the jaw region.

2. Even low percentage moves happen every once in a while. Little league baseball players occasionally die from getting hit in the chest with a baseball. Good luck trying to do it on purpose though.

3. That's the problem with many TMA's. They don't do so well with regular techs, so they have to convince themselves that the low percentage ones are the ones they will use.

[hskwarrior]

1. That strike was more in the jaw region.

2. Even low percentage moves happen every once in a while. Little league baseball players occasionally die from getting hit in the chest with a baseball. Good luck trying to do it on purpose though.

3. That's the problem with many TMA's. They don't do so well with regular techs, so they have to convince themselves that the low percentage ones are the ones they will use.

thats why i love choy lee fut so much...its a very effective and practical system that doesn't believe in the mumbo jumbo found in other styles. like it or not, CLF is a combat proven system. CLF's stand up game is pretty **** good.

and, that technique worked for that guy when he needed it to. plain and simple. there was no DO OVER's...no second chances. he hit the dude and it worked.

[hskwarrior]

There is two things i like most about choy lee fut as passed down within our branch. Its very aggressive by nature and extremely practical. all of our past masters skills were highly well known throughout the martial world. Even bruce lee had no choice but to give us props.

Our Choy Lee Fut's aggression comes from the mind set of once we attack we don't stop till our opponent stops moving. we won't try no funny moves or ones that we know have nothing to offer. but choy lee fut's practicality is something that i can really appreciate. part of CLF's arsenal are as follows:

Linear strikes.

Circular and angular strikes.

Uppercuts.

Knee's.

Elbows.

Hammer fists.

joint locks.

take downs.

Incredible defense.

solid footwork.

applicable techniques ready for any situation.

and more.

See, there are some gung fu people who think a palm to the back of a head of a person who's adrenaline levels are high is going to work. or gung fu people that think their single strikes are going to do the job quickly. however, just like thai boxers who train their shins to take and give some serious damage, choy lee fut's three star blocking whether its bone to bone or bone to wood on the wooden dummy we train our forearms to be hard like rocks. this will aid in better sow choy whether its aimed at the side of the head, side of the neck, or the back of the skull. (isn't it illegal in the UFC to strike the back of the head??)

some people need to understand how and when to use their techniques. just like a fighter wouldn't use his kicks on a focused and fresh fighter, a good choy lee fut fighter knows when to launch it. mainly thats when our opponent isn't so fresh. we can daze him with a few strikes then use our bread and butter. at the same time, a CLF sow choy is NEVER NEVER NEVER to be thrown by itself. ANYONE knows it can be seen coming from a mile away. this is where NON BELIEVERS think they got the CLF style figured out. and thats when we prove to people that they shouldn't have thought like that.

Past elders have been known to break necks with their sow choy's. Master Lau Chung was one of them. CLF is known for dirty fighting. alot of the things CLF likes to do is not allowed in the UFC or in mma. I can't lie, i'd like to see CLF go into MMA....our stand up is good enough and nothing wrong with picking up some ground game too.

[Knifefighter]

Past elders have been known to break necks with their sow choy's. Master Lau Chung was one of them. CLF is known for dirty fighting. alot of the things CLF likes to do is not allowed in the UFC or in mma. I can't lie, i'd like to see CLF go into MMA....our stand up is good enough and nothing wrong with picking up some ground game too.

If you can't fight without "dirty fighting", you will fare even worse when your opponent is allowed to incorporate foul tactics into his fight.

[hskwarrior]

If you can't fight without "dirty fighting", you will fare even worse when your opponent is allowed to incorporate foul tactics into his fight.

there are no RULES to protecting your life. ring fighting is one thing, defending yourself against a gang of thugs or a guy high on drugs trying to hurt you. we don't need to be MMA fighters to be able to effectively protect ourselves.

[Knifefighter]

there are no RULES to protecting your life. ring fighting is one thing, defending yourself against a gang of thugs or a guy high on drugs trying to hurt you. we don't need to be MMA fighters to be able to effectively protect ourselves.

That's always been the rationalization of styles that can't really fight that well. It's been going on since Kano developed Judo 150 years ago to prove to the jujutsu guys that it was a false rationalization.

[Knifefighter]

alot of the things CLF likes to do is not allowed in the UFC or in mma.

OK, I'll bite. Which things aren't allowed?

[Dragonzbane76]

there are no RULES to protecting your life. ring fighting is one thing, defending yourself against a gang of thugs or a guy high on drugs trying to hurt you. we don't need to be MMA fighters to be able to effectively protect ourselves.

so your going to trust something you've never tried and can't really try on someone (punch to the throat, eye gouges, all the fantasyland stuff etc.) , as opposed to something you've seen work and has been tested in a resistant environment?

[hskwarrior]

That's always been the rationalization of styles that can't really fight that well. It's been going on since Kano developed Judo 150 years ago to prove to the jujutsu guys that it was a false rationalization.

yeah but that doesn't speak for the CLF style. go ahead bite. i might bite you back. and stand up fighting and ground fighting are like apples and oranges. both are fruit, just not the same.


so your going to trust something you've never tried and can't really try on someone (punch to the throat, eye gouges, all the fantasyland stuff etc.) , as opposed to something you've seen work and has been tested in a resistant environment?

what do you know about our training methods? and out in the streets its ALL LEGAL. when you get attacked and your life is in danger. CLF is tested. are you not listening? its been tested, retested, refined, and improved upon.

still, its all talk right here on both sides. you say no, we say yes. if you want to find out for yourselves, go fight a REAL clf guy. not some person who took a couple of seminars.

[hskwarrior]

OK, I'll bite. Which things aren't allowed?

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling. (thats just a load of crap)
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation. (i don't know about that one)
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. (gotta be joking right?)
13. Grabbing the clavicle. (questionable).
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel. (CLF LOVES KIDNEY SHOTS)
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

[Dragonzbane76]

what do you know about our training methods? and out in the streets its ALL LEGAL. when you get attacked and your life is in danger. CLF is tested. are you not listening? its been tested, retested, refined, and improved upon.

still, its all talk right here on both sides. you say no, we say yes. if you want to find out for yourselves, go fight a REAL clf guy. not some person who took a couple of seminars.

i know nothing of your "training" methods, but I can deduce logic. I'm talking of the worn out lecture all the traditional guys wear like a badge or something about the (eye gouges, ball punches, the real "deadly" techs.,) so do you have a line out your school for willing people to come get punched in the balls full in a resistant envir. so that you can learn these "deadly" techs? or the shots to the neck area, or pulling someones eye out and eating it or what ever. Do you recycle the bodies?


you say no, we say yes. if you want to find out for yourselves, go fight a REAL clf guy. not some person who took a couple of seminars.

i understand what your getting at, and yes it's a matter of yes and no. My opinion, doesn't matter if you take it serious or not. I've fought lots of "the real" kung fu guys, fought lots of guys from lots of different places. Does it matter? still looking for good sparring partners.

[hskwarrior]

i know nothing of your "training" methods, but I can deduce logic. I'm talking of the worn out lecture all the traditional guys wear like a badge or something about the (eye gouges, ball punches, the real "deadly" techs.,) so do you have a line out your school for willing people to come get punched in the balls full in a resistant envir. so that you can learn these "deadly" techs? or the shots to the neck area, or pulling someones eye out and eating it or what ever. Do you recycle the bodies?

Pretty arrogant of you to make such assumptions. sad indeed.

[Dragonzbane76]

how is arrogant me saying I know nothing of your training methods.. I don't it's a fact.


thing is when someone starts talking of "the realz deadly" techs. it's a red flag. I would say it to anyone that promotes the "deadly" techs. How do you train them? How can you train them? going through the motions of acting out the attack on someone does not qualify anyone to say they can carry out "said" techs against a resistant opponent unless they have done "said" techs. against a resistant opponent.
tongue tying sentence there. ;)

[hskwarrior]

ok lets touch upon an eye gauge or poke for a second. so are you saying to everyone that your eyes are impervious to pain? if a thumb gets jabbed in your eye during the exchange are you telling me that your vision will not be affected? Im just asking. i've seen fights both in the ring and outside the ring get the tables turned over an injury to the eyes.

[hskwarrior]

i know nothing of your "training" methods, but I can deduce logic.

its arrogant cause without really knowing about the CLF system you are lumping the CLF people with the rest of the gung fu wierdo's. prove to me that the fighting history of CLF is full of BS. in fact, when the foreign boxers come to hong kong, choy lee fut people kicked their arses. Wu Van Cheuk (doc fai wong's teacher) and Lau Chung were two CLF fighters who entered the ring and dominated against the foreigners who thought due to their size and strength they would defeat the sick men of asia with ease.

guess they were wrong.


thing is when someone starts talking of "the realz deadly" techs. it's a red flag. I would say it to anyone that promotes the "deadly" techs. How do you train them? How can you train them? going through the motions of acting out the attack on someone does not qualify anyone to say they can carry out "said" techs against a resistant opponent unless they have done "said" techs. against a resistant opponent.
tongue tying sentence there.

i don't promote deadly techniques or even mention that mess. However, i DO promote CLF"S power techniques. See, PERSONALLY, i'm of the frame of mind its NOT the system that makes you are GREAT fighter, its the INDIVIDUAL. i've always stood for that. but how do we train? why would anyone just give away their training methods to someone they've never even met? But, we train by drilling, sparring, applications.

See, i don't care who doesn't believe or does. I've trained guys who've successfully defended themselves in the streets and who've fought in the ring. but, if you've never really trained at a fighting choy lee fut type of school you are unfairly and unjustly placing a negative light on our style. choy lee fut does WELL in the streets, SAN SHOU and hopefully one day will be seen in the MMA arena.

[TAO YIN]

Dragonzbane76,

How do you practice stabbing someone with a blade? Is it not an effective technique because you don't train it against live resisting opponents, looking to ground and pound?

What amuses me about this whole thing is that, it still continues. Most KF peeps I know or knew, figured out about 8 years ago that they needed a ground game. As for stand up, kung fu has it, karate has it, takewondo has it, Royce Grace kind of likes hapkido for it, etc...And anyone who trains stand up, it will basically look like stand up when they fight.

I don't go around practicing butterfly knife or katana techniques on most people. You think I could go try that at the new MMA kwoon down the street? I don't throw grenades at my brothers, but I'm sure they work.

That list of things not allowed, didn't include a whole bunch of things...

[Dragonzbane76]

ok lets touch upon an eye gauge or poke for a second. so are you saying to everyone that your eyes are impervious to pain? if a thumb gets jabbed in your eye during the exchange are you telling me that your vision will not be affected? Im just asking. i've seen fights both in the ring and outside the ring get the tables turned over an injury to the eyes.

i never said that getting poked in the eye will not hurt... but trying to do it on a resistant person is not as simple as just going up and poking them. so how do you test it? hire people and pay them money to dance around and you follow trying to poke them in the eye?

Look i'm not say the "eye gouge" won't work, i'm not saying that some of these "exotic" move won't i'm saying that the percentages are low, and in the "street" or "ubber deadly" as some TMA's would call it, I'm not going to chance my life on something that is "low" percentage. I'm going for something I know will work and has been seen to work on a reliable basis in a resistant environment on opponents trying to hit me or whom ever.

[Dragonzbane76]

How do you practice stabbing someone with a blade? Is it not an effective technique because you don't train it against live resisting opponents, looking to ground and pound?

different element... it's like a gun... i don't need to be versed in the mechanics to pull the trigger.

But that's not my point. Hand to hand is a different ball game... weapons in and of themselves add different perspective.
my point is the "ubber deadly" stuff people preach about in Traditional schools, that will probably more than likely get someone killed. These techs. that "cant" be stopped by anyone and will incapacitate anyone. That kind of crap. ( and the eye gouge, neck punching, ball punch, fall in that cat.)

[hskwarrior]

i never said that getting poked in the eye will not hurt... but trying to do it on a resistant person is not as simple as just going up and poking them.

unless you get your eyes poked, jabbed, dug into on a daily basis you first reaction will be no different than your average person. fighting is so unpredictable that you never know what's gonna happen.

If YOU are a MMA supporter, i know you've seen round house kicks, superman punches, elbows, knee's done in MMA. in the ring they are not that effective until the other fighter gets worn down a bit. so if its not so effective on its first use then why keep throwing that kick? you might be very confident in your hook punch, but does it mean it will work right off the bat? does good fighting not move? evade? defend in some way?

guess what? SO DOES CHOY LEE FUT.

[TAO YIN]

Dragon,

Everyone with any sense knows that these techniques are low percentage. Still they fuucking hurt. It hurts to get hit in the neck. It hurts to get hit in the eyes. It hurts to get kicked in the nuts. BUT yes they are low percentage techniques. That doesn't matter though because percentage is only relevant to the 'ball game' at hand.

Ground and pound is low percentile when you opponent has a projectile. By the way, if you are looking for something that works, maybe look for some Anthrax.

What was that about pulling the trigger? You don't have to aim?

I don't really see what the problem is with all of this. I think most people understand the aspect of going to a gun fight with a knife. Same for MMA...If I am going to go to an MMA event, why would I not practice what the other guy is practicing that I am going to fight? Why would anyone do this? It doesn't make sense...

Point is, and I will ask knife again even though he probably won't respond, what is your point? You haven't said anything here really...It's common sense.

[Dragonzbane76]

Dragon,

Everyone with any sense knows that these techniques are low percentage. Still they fuucking hurt. It hurts to get hit in the neck. It hurts to get hit in the eyes. It hurts to get kicked in the nuts. BUT yes they are low percentage techniques. That doesn't matter though because percentage is only relevant to the 'ball game' at hand.

Ground and pound is low percentile when you opponent has a projectile. By the way, if you are looking for something that works, maybe look for some Anthrax.

What was that about pulling the trigger? You don't have to aim?

I don't really see what the problem is with all of this. I think most people understand the aspect of going to a gun fight with a knife. Same for MMA...If I am going to go to an MMA event, why would I not practice what the other guy is practicing that I am going to fight? Why would anyone do this? It doesn't make sense...

Point is, and I will ask knife again even though he probably won't respond, what is your point? You haven't said anything here really...It's common sense.

hey if it's your cup of tea go for it... all i'm saying is that I'm not trusting my life to some half-as$ed garbage. Yes ball punch hurts, eye gouge hurts, but you have to be able to hit someone with it and in the heat of fighting the body is an amazing machine with adrinaline and the ability to block pain. and the "ball game" is for you life you like taking chances, go for it. I'm more into working the odds and living. I'm more into trying something i know will work and isn't exotic in nature. But if you like that go for it. it's your a$$. Hope they put it on youtube.

and yes if i'm looking to something for self defence it will be the gun i'm packing. no one is disputing you over weapons in a fight, they change the dynamics of everything and no one should count out that someone is going to pull one.

[hskwarrior]

Look i'm not say the "eye gouge" won't work, i'm not saying that some of these "exotic" move won't i'm saying that the percentages are low, and in the "street" or "ubber deadly" as some TMA's would call it, I'm not going to chance my life on something that is "low" percentage. I'm going for something I know will work and has been seen to work on a reliable basis in a resistant environment on opponents trying to hit me or whom ever.

have you been in a real street fight? not one that ended in thirty seconds because someone broke it up. see, i don't talk about martial arts in the streets, i talk about street fighting enhanced by martial arts. i'm not a MMA fighter. but, in the streets i've known how to sprawl since i was a kid. the guillatine is one of my favorites and have used in the streets more than once. i've been on the bottom with a guy who had full guard and took the beating. Body slamming is a big thing out here in the streets of SF...we call it "GETTING DIPPED"

so what i'm saying is while there may be those wierd esoteric types and studio fighters, there are some of us out here that were street fighters with skill who took up martial arts to give us that added advantage over other street fighters. because we realistically train 3 or more vs one person is the very reason why my student who was stabbed by all those dudes successfully defended himself.

i know what you're saying about these types of martial artists. but believe there are some TCMA people that feel the same as you do and working to prove to the world that not all TCMA is a smoke screen.

[hskwarrior]

hey if it's your cup of tea go for it... all i'm saying is that I'm not trusting my life to some half-as$ed garbage. Yes ball punch hurts, eye gouge hurts, but you have to be able to hit someone with it and in the heat of fighting the body is an amazing machine with adrinaline and the ability to block pain. and the "ball game" is for you life you like taking chances, go for it. I'm more into working the odds and living. I'm more into trying something i know will work and isn't exotic in nature. But if you like that go for it. it's your a$$. Hope they put it on youtube.

are you just that good that it won't happen to you? you are really that top notch?


I'm more into trying something i know will work and isn't exotic in nature. But if you like that go for it. it's your a$$. Hope they put it on youtube.

how do you know it will work for YOU? again, what makes you more superior to any other fighter that my just train like you?

[Dragonzbane76]

have you been in a real street fight?yes

not one that ended in thirty seconds because someone broke it up. and yes.


but, in the streets i've known how to sprawl since i was a kid. the guillatine is one of my favorites and have used in the streets more than once. i've been on the bottom with a guy who had full guard and took the beating. Body slamming is a big thing out here in the streets of SF...we call it "GETTING DIPPED"
see this is my point right here. lets say the sprawl and guillotine both tried and true techs. Both that we know work and can peform on an opponent in "trial" basis. Great for any environment. universal i would say. would you agree?

ok now i know these 2 techs. will work, i would use them any day over trying to gouge someones eyes out of trying to punch them in the balls etc. etc., of course everything has its place and time, but in confrontation I would go for the tried and true before i go to something i've only mentally thought about and never tried on someone in real terms. and lets face it in a fight you don't have a lot of room to think in terms of future techs. you are going to use against "said" opponnent.


know what you're saying about these types of martial artists. but believe there are some TCMA people that feel the same as you do and working to prove to the world that not all TCMA is a smoke screen.

I understand were you are coming from, i'm not going to post my "resume" of martial history, only that my background is also in TCMA. Hung gar and pai lum. But the facts are that a lot of the techs. taught in classes around the world are just fansy crap. Not saying all just a percentage of them. My thoughts are we just have to weed out the crap, find the diamond in the rough as I call it.

[Dragonzbane76]

are you just that good that it won't happen to you? you are really that top notch?

happen to me? its a fight anything can happen. kinda confuse on your comment, you mean the "ubber deadly" happening to me from someone else?


how do you know it will work for YOU? again, what makes you more superior to any other fighter that my just train like you?
how do i know? how do you know the sprawl will work for you?
knowing your limitations and what works for you is probably the greatest asset any of us can have. what makes you think your CLF is superior to everything else?

[hskwarrior]

see this is my point right here. lets say the sprawl and guillotine both tried and true techs. Both that we know work and can peform on an opponent in "trial" basis. Great for any environment. universal i would say. would you agree?

do you get what i'm saying? i NEVER learned wrestling or MMA. Heck, MMA wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's dinkle when i was doing it. I learned that from street fighting. my point is as a street fighter i know how to decipher what would work in combat and what wouldn't. ]


ok now i know these 2 techs. will work, i would use them any day over trying to gouge someones eyes out of trying to punch them in the balls etc. etc., of course everything has its place and time, but in confrontation I would go for the tried and true before i go to something i've only mentally thought about and never tried on someone in real terms. and lets face it in a fight you don't have a lot of room to think in terms of future techs. you are going to use against "said" opponnent.

If you walked up in to my face trying to stare me down i'll follow you lead. its a very macho thing to try and intimidate someone with the mean mug on. your eyes are SOOOOOO intent with your goal. so focused that you are not about to see my hit you in your nuts with every ounce of power i have. sorry charlie, you're going down.

the image you are trying to portray of someone chasing you around a ring with the EYE GAUGE HANDS in the ready position ALMOST MADE ME SH!T ON MYSELF FROM LAUGHING. how ever, if a person in full mount can cover your mouth with his hand, he can also eye qauge you as well.

what about getting kicked in the balls instead? is that still so ineffective? i mean you wouldn't flinch or wince for a brief moment when getting your family jewels pummeled but a powerful kick? heck the guy could be been trying to kick you in your gut but missed and hit you in the nuts. we've all seen a nut shot in MMA and how it can affect someone.

and again....you are arrogantly assuming that you know better. you know what they say about assume.

[Knifefighter]

ok lets touch upon an eye gauge or poke for a second. so are you saying to everyone that your eyes are impervious to pain? if a thumb gets jabbed in your eye during the exchange are you telling me that your vision will not be affected? Im just asking. i've seen fights both in the ring and outside the ring get the tables turned over an injury to the eyes.

The guy who fights better "within the rules" also fights better without the rules.

[hskwarrior]

happen to me? its a fight anything can happen. kinda confuse on your comment, you mean the "ubber deadly" happening to me from someone else?

yes. are you totally impervious to the "UBBER DEADLY?'



I understand were you are coming from, i'm not going to post my "resume" of martial history, only that my background is also in TCMA. Hung gar and pai lum. But the facts are that a lot of the techs. taught in classes around the world are just fansy crap. Not saying all just a percentage of them. My thoughts are we just have to weed out the crap, find the diamond in the rough as I call it.

don't you think there might be some people out there that recognize this fact? believe it or not even TCMA people clown "T3H UBB3R D3ADLY" types. but you are right, there is alot of garbage out there in TCMA. this is why i love the CLF system and who i learned it from.

[Knifefighter]

How do you practice stabbing someone with a blade? Is it not an effective technique because you don't train it against live resisting opponents, looking to ground and pound? .

You do the same thing as all "sport" methods use. You get as close as you can get and still be able to train full-force. With blades, this means using shock knives and semi-sharpened steel blades.

[Knifefighter]

its arrogant cause without really knowing about the CLF system you are lumping the CLF people with the rest of the gung fu wierdo's. prove to me that the fighting history of CLF is full of BS. in fact, when the foreign boxers come to hong kong, choy lee fut people kicked their arses. Wu Van Cheuk (doc fai wong's teacher) and Lau Chung were two CLF fighters who entered the ring and dominated against the foreigners who thought due to their size and strength they would defeat the sick men of asia with ease. .

Please provide some actaul evidence of the effectiveness of CLF.

The fake styles pretty much always rely on the "old time" stories, but can't seem to provide any actual hard evidence.

[Knifefighter]

Point is, and I will ask knife again even though he probably won't respond, what is your point? You haven't said anything here really...It's common sense.

Empty hand, blunt weapons, edged weapons, firearms... all the same principle. Try to get as close as you can to actual reality and train full force.

[Dragonzbane76]

do you get what i'm saying? i NEVER learned wrestling or MMA. Heck, MMA wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's dinkle when i was doing it. I learned that from street fighting. my point is as a street fighter i know how to decipher what would work in combat and what wouldn't. ]
:) ok who says we were speaking of MMA or wrestling, i never mentioned either. I'm glad you are so much better than every other person because you have had some street fights... now see there what i did i turned it around. ;)
dude i'm not going to get into my d!ck is long match. I could post and tell you what ever about my past and that i'm the king of the hill blah blah blah... i'm not. I was having a nice conversation about the merit of MA's of which I prefer and those that you prefer.


If you walked up in to my face trying to stare me down i'll follow you lead. its a very macho thing to try and intimidate someone with the mean mug on. your eyes are SOOOOOO intent with your goal. so focused that you are not about to see my hit you in your nuts with every ounce of power i have. sorry charlie, you're going down.
first off me personally, me. I do not bump chests in the middle of the street with anyone, it's stupid I don't get intent on anyones eyes i'm watching around me and the person in front, if they want a fight they are coming no use to get into a "macho" dismo contest. it's a fight, it's one thing. you might get your ball punch on someone, not me sorry. I never once stated it was a ring, But I do know that those skills are guaranteed in most curcumstances.

the image you are trying to portray of someone chasing you around a ring with the EYE GAUGE HANDS in the ready position ALMOST MADE ME SH!T ON MYSELF FROM LAUGHING. how ever, if a person in full mount can cover your mouth with his hand, he can also eye qauge you as well. never stated that the eye gouge can't happen, see your not listening, and again with the ring stuff. your the one intent on it not me. I'm just commmenting that a lot of the stuff in mma and fighting of such nature is more liable to work than so called "your bumping chests in the street ball punch".

and again....you are arrogantly assuming that you know better. you know what they say about assume. i never assumed anything I stated and listen, aagain listen... what works for me is not the garbage taught from the mythical TMA standpoint. If you, aagain you, want to go around in a street fight and eye gouge and ball punch go for it. I'll watch on youtube. it's not my cup of tea. you don't like my opinion don't listen. plain and simple.

[Dragonzbane76]

yes. are you totally impervious to the "UBBER DEADLY?'

see your not listening again. I never stated someone can't be hit with "ubber deadlies" only that it's a low percentage move, not as reliable as say some other techs.

[hskwarrior]

Please provide some actaul evidence of the effectiveness of CLF.

The fake styles pretty much always rely on the "old time" stories, but can't seem to provide any actual hard evidence.

take some classes. but know who you are learning it from first.

[Knifefighter]

1. Butting with the head.
2. Eye gouging of any kind.
3. Biting.
4. Hair pulling. (thats just a load of crap)
5. Fish hooking.
6. Groin attacks of any kind.
7. Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8. Small joint manipulation. (i don't know about that one)
9. Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. (gotta be joking right?)
13. Grabbing the clavicle. (questionable).
14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16. Stomping a grounded opponent.
17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel. (CLF LOVES KIDNEY SHOTS)
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19. Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20. Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent.
21. Spitting at an opponent.
22. Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
23. Holding the ropes or the fence.
24. Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25. Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26. Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27. Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28. Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29. Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30. Interference by the corner.
31. Throwing in the towel during competition.

Funny, that's what this guy said, so we set up a match where everything was legal so he could prove his point. He didn't do so well. As a matter of fact, going for the eye gouge is what set him up to get his arm broken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

[Knifefighter]

take some classes. but know who you are learning it from first.

How about you just show us some kind of evidence?

[hskwarrior]

ude i'm not going to get into my d!ck is long match. I could post and tell you what ever about my past and that i'm the king of the hill blah blah blah... i'm not. I was having a nice conversation about the merit of MA's of which I prefer and those that you prefer.

yes you are or you wouldn't be involved in this conversation. :rolleyes:


see your not listening again. I never stated someone can't be hit with "ubber deadlies" only that it's a low percentage move, not as reliable as say some other techs.

to tell you the truth i only entertained that idea...i don't use eye gauges unless my life is on the brink of being lost and if the opportunity arises. luckily for me, CLF has a good number of techniques to choose from.

[hskwarrior]

How about you just show us some kind of evidence?

YOU gets nothing from me buddy. you don't know anything about choy lee fut. so its like talking to a wall.

[Dragonzbane76]

Funny, that's what this guy said, so we set up a match where everything was legal so he could prove his point. He didn't do so well. As a matter of fact, going for the eye gouge is what set him up to get his arm broken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

seen this fight before, the sound of his arm breaking just grates your teeth:)
so was there eye gouges and ball punches allowed in this fight? :p

[Dragonzbane76]

yes you are or you wouldn't be involved in this conversation.

so are we both sword fighting yet? :rolleyes:

[TAO YIN]

Dragon,

I never said it was my cup of tea or whatever. You are not listening...All I said was that it hurts. I explained to you about going to a gun fight with a knife didn't I? Can't you understand that? I'm halfway agreeing with you dude. I wrote to you that I think those techniques are LOW percentile. Still though, it's all context.

Knife,

The point is, that in doing these things you don't kill each other. Which is the joke that most people make when others try to justify eye gouging...

Now, take what I just said, twist it, and make a fuuckstick out of it...Both of you!

:D

[hskwarrior]

Funny, that's what this guy said, so we set up a match where everything was legal so he could prove his point. He didn't do so well. As a matter of fact, going for the eye gouge is what set him up to get his arm broken.

don't know him, neither do i care.

[hskwarrior]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqD8Odaebw

if this is what you think a CLF guy is about.....OMG LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Knifefighter]

seen this fight before, the sound of his arm breaking just grates your teeth:)
so was there eye gouges and ball punches allowed in this fight? :p

Yep, that was the idea. The guy claimed he needed it to be no rules so it would be like a street fight.

[hskwarrior]

so are we both sword fighting yet?

i'm not into naked swordfighting dude.......GROSS

[hskwarrior]

Yep, that was the idea. The guy claimed he needed it to be no rules so it would be like a street fight.

that guys a phucking tool. who wears that kind of uniform anymore? hahahahah
also, you're a little outdated and you used a terrible viideo. the guy got what he deserved.

[Dragonzbane76]

All I said was that it hurts. I explained to you about going to a gun fight with a knife didn't I? Can't you understand that? I'm halfway agreeing with you dude. I wrote to you that I think those techniques are LOW percentile. Still though, it's all context.

agree, it hurts, never stated getting kicked in balls or poked in eye doesn't. Context is the key, i also agree on that. matter of time and place, but my point was that i prefer other techs. to the "ubber" deadliez that some people teach. just my opinion.:)

and you can take that fvuckstick and shove it. :p

[hskwarrior]

agree, it hurts, never stated getting kicked in balls or poked in eye doesn't. Context is the key, i also agree on that. matter of time and place, but my point was that i prefer other techs. to the "ubber" deadliez that some people teach. just my opinion.

and you can take that fvuckstick and shove it.

right....i prefer the more effective types of techs that CLF has to offer

[TAO YIN]

Knife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on man, that clip of that fight is older than my arse crack. I expect better from you...That is the most unevenly matched mess of bullshiit on the net.

[hskwarrior]

and you can take that fvuckstick and shove it.

you don't hang with BAWANG THE ASS HAMMER do you?

[Knifefighter]

if this is what you think a CLF guy is about.....OMG LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, he was san sao, but he made the exact same claims as you do.

CLF is more like 3rd grade windmill fighting. Something along these lines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwV4n7u2h8M

[TAO YIN]

Dragon,

So we agree then? They are low percentile techniques, everything and anything is all about context, and that if you are going to fight MMA, you should train MMA. Again, great, we have learned and said nothing. But as they say, there is nothing new under the sun. :p

And you know you like that fvvuckstik. It's makes you feel warm inside, when you change it around and make it your own biitch.

[hskwarrior]

No, he was san sao, but he made the exact same claims as you do.

CLF is more like 3rd grade windmill fighting. Something along these lines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwV4n7u2h8M

ok i was hoping you would have put a video of some CLF fighting. you posted a video of a form. so what am i supposed to gleem off of what you're saying?

[Knifefighter]

Knife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on man, that clip of that fight is older than my arse crack. I expect better from you...That is the most unevenly matched mess of bullshiit on the net.


That's exactly the point. The guy was making the exact same points about the foul tactics being made here. They didn't work then, and they don't work now.

[TAO YIN]

Knife, you know that San Shou guy sucked. Get real. Was this at one of Gracie's school in LA where you were at watching this fight? Irregardless, he sucked, was outclassed, outweighted, and everything else.

How well does your BJJ do in Compton? :D

[hskwarrior]

That's exactly the point. The guy was making the exact same points about the foul tactics being made here. They didn't work then, and they don't work now.

in that video, i saw a guy who thought because he was a kung fu guy he would be a great fighter. the guy himself shouldn't be faulted because he didn't really know better. his teacher should be faulted for not teaching him to become a fighter.

[Knifefighter]

ok i was hoping you would have put a video of some CLF fighting. you posted a video of a form. so what am i supposed to gleem off of what you're saying?

That was also the point. If you have a style where you can find 100 demo videos, but zero fighting videos, the people in the style are generally not fighting.

[TAO YIN]

Oh no no,

They work. Again, context.

It's kind of like this...Kung Fu guys can use them on each other, but have a hard time using them on MMA guys. MMA guys though, can use them on each other, and it is actually Fuucking A hilarious to see it happen. So, Kung Fu guy just trains MMA, then has a better platform to use them.

All like you have said before time and time again.

You got to admit though. It's funny if you have a RNC on someone and just kind of scrape their eyes a little bit. You know, just to give them enough air for a second, then go back to RNC. It's fun.

[hskwarrior]

That was also the point. If you have a style where you can find 100 demo videos, but zero fighting videos, the people in the style are generally not fighting.

for one, i truly doubt you are that old decrepit old man you try to make yourself out to be. however, i think you like forms more than fighting because you have missed CLF san shou matches and other gong sau matches that are posted on the internet.

you go ahead and keep on believing you got the CLF style understood just because we practice forms. and CLF will just keep doing what its doing.

[Knifefighter]

in that video, i saw a guy who thought because he was a kung fu guy he would be a great fighter. the guy himself shouldn't be faulted because he didn't really know better. his teacher should be faulted for not teaching him to become a fighter.

He was no more deluded than you are.

[TAO YIN]

Compton,,,Biitches aint shiit but hoes and tricks...Compton...

[hskwarrior]

He was no more deluded than you are.

you're still a clueless nitwit wannabe know-it-all. who lies and makes false claims about dealing with things you know you never really have. knowing you are fake as that guy in the video, its a wonder why anyone really listens to you.

[Knifefighter]

... you have missed CLF san shou matches and other gong sau matches that are posted on the internet.

Go ahead and post them. Like I said, all I'm asking for is evidence.

[hskwarrior]

Go ahead and post them. Like I said, all I'm asking for is evidence.

i will do that as soon as you reveal your true identity with evidence to back it up. until then you are NO DIFFERENT than that fake arse gung fu guy in the video you posted.

[Knifefighter]

Knife, you know that San Shou guy sucked. Get real. Was this at one of Gracie's school in LA where you were at watching this fight? Irregardless, he sucked, was outclassed, outweighted, and everything else.

Of course he sucked. He was convinced he could rely on his "deadly techniques" so he never used the tried and true sport model of training. He had to suck. You can't get good using "the deadly street" methods.



How well does your BJJ do in Compton? :D

Works pretty well, actually.

[hskwarrior]

Works pretty well, actually.

you so full of ****. show us video proof that your BS style of fighting will work on the streets of Compton, New York, San Francisco, or where ever. you are non existant accept for here on this forum.

[Knifefighter]

Knife!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on man, that clip of that fight is older than my arse crack. I expect better from you...That is the most unevenly matched mess of bullshiit on the net.

BTW, here's a more recent one. This guy was a ninja. Same bullsh!t, different style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYQiPRUu7b0&feature=related

[TAO YIN]

So now you hang out in Compton? I hear it is better there than it was.

Yes, that guy sucked. Well, a better way of saying it is, He was outclassed. That fight would be about the same as if you or me fought Fedor...

You practice the most effective techniques in and out of the ring, all of the time, but you are not pro, and you wouldn't stand a chance against most of them. Why?

TCMA guys who don't fight, fighting guys who do, is like you fighting Fedor. It doesn't work...

[Knifefighter]

So now you hang out in Compton? I hear it is better there than it was.
My gf works there.



You practice the most effective techniques in and out of the ring, all of the time, but you are not pro, and you wouldn't stand a chance against most of them. Why?

TCMA guys who don't fight, fighting guys who do, is like you fighting Fedor. It doesn't work...

The difference is I don't sit about saying, "Oh but they don't use "deadly street" techniques and I do" and generally rationalizing why I COULD beat them if I could use my str33t techniques.

[TAO YIN]

Knife,

Thanks, I needed that. Another example of someone not knowing how to roll going up against someone who does. Both of their stand up games were shiit btw.

Now, as soon as they finished that rolling session, You, or Brandon Vera one, should have given them both throwing stars and made them take paces then turn around and throw. If the mma guy wins, then we would really know that ninja is shiit...Or, maybe see which was better at assasinating someone.

Why don't you put up any vids of something like delta force guys fighting mma guys. That would be more interesting...

Thanks though, I had never seen that before. Kind of looked like the first time I went into a BJJ school and found out I couldn't roll very well...

[hskwarrior]

TCMA guys who don't fight, fighting guys who do, is like you fighting Fedor. It doesn't work...

i agree with that. but still, a stand up fighter, trained or not is not going to fare well against a guy who spends the most part of his day training to fight professionally. to me thats like people who play football in the street thinking they could handle a pro foot ball player.

[Knifefighter]

Why don't you put up any vids of something like delta force guys fighting mma guys. That would be more interesting....

Delta force guys don't do any better unless they have trained MMA themselves. There's no secret delta force empty-hand fighting techniques.

[hskwarrior]

My gf works there.

the person you portray to be is an old ass man. you don't have no girlffiend. you have a caretaker

[TAO YIN]

As for the difference, I am not saying that either Knife. And you know that anyone with half a brain doesn't actually think that. I really don't know why you waste your time with this...Everyone who has any kind of idea, knows...

What does your lady do in Compton? As I said, I have read and heard that it is much better than it was and that they are trying to get the kids educated there, collecting gun piles from gangs and destroying them, and whatnot, but I don't know. I will probably be in LA around March unless something here shiits up with work. You train at Gracie's? Where?

[TAO YIN]

Knife,

It was a joke! And you don't know Delta Force guys. Come on. Get off yourself about this shiit. Seriously.

[Violent Designs]

are u guys done?

[TAO YIN]

Violent,

I am always thinking the same thing about being done. But somehow this morning I threw myself into this shiit. Why I don't know.

[Knifefighter]

Knife,

It was a joke! And you don't know Delta Force guys. Come on. Get off yourself about this shiit. Seriously.

Hard to tell who is joking. Lots of people think special forces have some kind of secret empty hand techniques.

I trained at the Gracies for years. They had a program specifically for special forces military, so those guys were coming in all the time.

I train a guy now who is ex-Delta Force and an ex-Secret Service guy.

Everybody and their grandmother wants to learn BJJ these days, so I've pretty much seen them all... from the clueless kung fu guys who come in thinking they can explode people's brains to law enforcement people who want to have a hand up on being able to grapple people they have to arrest to military who want supplemental training to government guys who do security details.

[TAO YIN]

Knife,

Cool. I didn't know that. So the Gracie's gave these guys different classes than the average joes? Did they not want to train with the others or?

You are training a Delta Force guy? Cool. Whether he was a Ranger or whatever before, he had to be pretty sharp to get up there. 1 in 1,000. He must pick up things very quick.

All the above, isn't a joke.

[Knifefighter]

Knife,

Cool. I didn't know that. So the Gracie's gave these guys different classes than the average joes? Did they not want to train with the others or?.
They trained in the regular classes, as well as having their own special classes.

[Violent Designs]

Knife here are some fights or just like hard sparring whatever you wanna call it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8mc_pvhU9s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHqlt_Cd9p4 (start at 1:30)

[Knifefighter]

Knife here are some fights or just like hard sparring whatever you wanna call it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8mc_pvhU9s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHqlt_Cd9p4 (start at 1:30)

Bingo! And notice how you don't see the big "3rd grade" windmill punches or strikes to the neck. People who actually fight full contact figure out pretty quickly that all those types of techniques are better left on the 3rd grade playground.

[hskwarrior]

lmao.....:D

[Dragonzbane76]

are u guys done?

eh i dropped out of it... I stated my peace... they don't like it oh well... Not my cup of tea....:)

[Knifefighter]

Bingo! And notice how you don't see the big "3rd grade" windmill punches or strikes to the neck. People who actually fight full contact figure out pretty quickly that all those types of techniques are better left on the 3rd grade playground.

And notice how, other than the occasional spinning backfist it looks pretty much like standard kickboxing. People who fight understand that's the way it works across all lines.

People who don't do full contact think fighting looks like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1GEGGnuQ58

[hskwarrior]

And notice how, other than the occasional spinning backfist it looks pretty much like standard kickboxing. People who fight understand that's the way it works across all lines.

to you it might. to a trained CLF eye, we see what we see. CLF does not claim to be one of these mystical arts. we have very practical techniques including some like the spinning back fist and our sow choy's. but that is NOT the total of our system.

CLF vs Boxing (lightweight sparring)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Q-G85mmDg&feature=related

[hskwarrior]

you're a sucka knifefighter. smart of you not to have any video's of yourself out there. first, we know you are not that old ass DALE or whatever his name is. second, what did you see but some random spontaneous footage we chose to put on youtube? you saw what i wanted you to see because i know there are fools like yourself who use footage to either improve your own skills or use it to mock others.

until you post an authentic video of yourself...something we can verify it is YOU and not someone's identity you stole, YOU ARE ALL TALK.

[hskwarrior]

DALE FRANKS......is this you knifefighter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8PK8j_Y5Xs

are you phucking serious? awwwwwe you look cute in your little shorts hahahahahaha

heck of a stand up game you got there OMG LMAO (oh it hurts, it hurts...omg i can't take it)

[Knifefighter]

Yep, you found me out. That would be me messing around with a WC guy who wanted to see if he could keep me from taking him down.

And this would full contact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwLFeIqjQ3Q

Now let's see your full contact fighting.

[hskwarrior]

LMAO....nah....ITS OK. .......i'm speechless....i guess i expected so much more.

i can't say nothing about your ground game. its ok. but i can see why you don't understand choy lee fut though.

[Drake]

I got his leg! I got his leg!

He's biting me! The a-hole is biting me!

[Drake]

Allow me to clarify... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ngC4t01fJA

[Knifefighter]

LMAO....nah....ITS OK. .......i'm speechless....i guess i expected so much more.

i can't say nothing about your ground game. its ok. but i can see why you don't understand choy lee fut though.

Oh really, you mean you were lying. You're not going to put you full contact fighting clips up now that I have put mine up like you said you would? Wow, who wouldda thought? A liar? One who lies about what he is going to do? One who lies about having ever even done full contact fighting? Yep... once a liar always a liar.

[hskwarrior]

Oh really, you mean you were lying. You're not going to put you full contact fighting clips up now that I have put mine up like you said you would? Wow, who wouldda thought? A liar? One who lies about what he is going to do? One who lies about having ever even done full contact fighting? Yep... once a liar always a liar.

nah ...LMAOOOOOO.....it means once i saw your video i no longer need to argue with you. LMAO......

what kind of hands were you using in that video? looked 2nd grade school yard stuff. hahaha

[Knifefighter]

nah ...LMAOOOOOO.....it means once i saw your video i no longer need to argue with you. LMAO......

what kind of hands were you using in that video? looked 2nd grade school yard stuff. hahaha

That's good... now you can go back to your pretend, non-fighting, fantasy world.

[hskwarrior]

that's good... Now you can go back to your pretend, non-fighting, fantasy world.

lmao.......yes i can!!!!!!!

Keep up the good work hahahahah

omg it hurts. it hurts it hurts to keep my mouth shut like this. oh lord help me make it through this

[Dragonzbane76]

well are you going to post some of your fights? since you seem to want to bad mouth in a second grader dialect. we are all waiting. :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

well are you going to post some of your fights? since you seem to want to bad mouth in a second grader dialect. we are all waiting.

sure i'll be getting on that right away for you. :rolleyes:

[Dragonzbane76]

sure i'll be getting on that right away for you.

wasn't holding my breath... that's for sure. :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

wasn't holding my breath... that's for sure.

very astute observation. however, where's yours?

[Eric Olson]

see your not listening again. I never stated someone can't be hit with "ubber deadlies" only that it's a low percentage move, not as reliable as say some other techs.

Would you say Sao Cheui is a low percentage technique?

EO

[Dragonzbane76]

very astute observation. however, where's yours?

Oh I see everyone else can post there's but you. :rolleyes:

[hskwarrior]

Oh I see everyone else can post there's but you.

yup ...i ask again....WHERE'S YOURS? that's what i though. LOL

[yutyeesam]

it's wild. some folks have an addiction to making enemies online.

that's too bad. the internet killed civility.

i guess civility is not so good for marketing, so jerry springer-ness is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

i blame you, gene ching! you are the asian jerry springer!! :D

[hskwarrior]

it's wild. some folks have an addiction to making enemies online.

that's too bad. the internet killed civility.

i guess civility is not so good for marketing, so jerry springer-ness is not only tolerated, but encouraged.

i blame you, gene ching! you are the asian jerry springer!!

HEY! if it weren't for enemies we wouldn't have friends. :D

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

[Violent Designs]

i feel like deleting this thread since Fu Pow decide to derail the sh1t out of it.

[yutyeesam]

HEY! if it weren't for enemies we wouldn't have friends. :D

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

LOL
that's actually very taoist of you to say.

to understand life we must understand death. and the true path to understanding is experience. so i guess we better die to understand life. and make sure we have video evidence of it on youtube to raise our death cred pts.

[yutyeesam]

i feel like deleting this thread since Fu Pow decide to derail the sh1t out of it.

I'm in favor of this. Good stuff on here and good initial topic, VD. But CLF threads, just, *sigh* well you know.

[Violent Designs]

I'm in favor of this. Good stuff on here and good initial topic, VD. But CLF threads, just, *sigh* well you know.

can't have a ****ing serious discussion about fighting.

i also love all the retard comments from all of the people who never competed a day in their life (no point sparring/continuous sparring kung fu tournaments don't count)

at the very least follow the full-contact fight scene in your local area but they don't even do that so reading some of these comments are so.... UGH.

CAN'T STAND IT.

[bawang]

i help u put back to topic.

have u thought of contacting any major clf organizations to try to setup this ting. bring ur dream to reality.

[yutyeesam]

i help u put back to topic.

have u thought of contacting any major clf organizations to try to setup this ting. bring ur dream to reality.

gud thot. clf is too political to do this with each other tho.

but actually clf guys compete in san shou a lot. at legends of kung fu tournament, clf from brazil dominated san shou.

[hskwarrior]

You know it is a great idea. Doc Fai Wong has an exclusive tourney for all of his schools. But i think a tourney worthy of CLF, hard, aggressive, and fast. but not only hand to hand combat, i'd like to see the weaponry of CLF being used in competition too.

don't give up the dream....if you build it they will come.

[yutyeesam]

or just go to other already established venues to compete.

http://www.tatwong.com/images/mike%20lee%20web%20banner.jpg

[Dragonzbane76]

yup ...i ask again....WHERE'S YOURS? that's what i though. LOL

and where is yours? that's what I thought. lol :rolleyes:

go play your fantasy fu.... bought all you got.

[hskwarrior]

and where is yours? that's what I thought. lol

go play your fantasy fu.... bought all you got

come on dude, you know you wanna play it with me. :D

[yutyeesam]

give it a rest guys. none of it matters. at all. in the least.

btw, kettlebells & clf is kewl.

and, to avoid further attempts at derailing this thread, brazil clf at legends of kung fu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxz8PSkpic4

estas bien! viva brasiiiiiil!!

[Dragonzbane76]

come on dude, you know you wanna play it with me.

i can play all day and night. :)

[hskwarrior]

i can play all day and night.

ok now thats pretty gay. ITS NOT THAT TYPE OF PARTY DUDE

[Dragonzbane76]

ok now thats pretty gay. ITS NOT THAT TYPE OF PARTY DUDE

welll you caught me in the dark... what kinda party you talking about? :confused:

[hskwarrior]

welll you caught me in the dark.

its ok. never mind. i don't wanna be caught in any dark places with you man :eek:

[Dragonzbane76]

its ok. never mind. i don't wanna be caught in any dark places with you man

yeah sounds pretty gay have to admit. :p

[hskwarrior]

we finally agree on something :p

[Eric Olson]

i feel like deleting this thread since Fu Pow decide to derail the sh1t out of it.

It's funny how people still refer to me as Fu Pow considering that I post my real name...and have for several years now. The legend lives on I guess :p

EO

[Violent Designs]

It's funny how people still refer to me as Fu Pow considering that I post my real name...and have for several years now. The legend lives on I guess :p

EO

easier to write than Eric Olson

[Shaolindynasty]

but actually clf guys compete in san shou a lot. at legends of kung fu tournament, clf from brazil dominated san shou.


Except the student from my school

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyfkzKw8lsw

Thats him in the red headgear. This is his first fight, he started training CLF about 1 year ago and had no other ma experience:)

The camera missed the end where he landed a hard kup choi which scored a knockdown getting him the win

This is CLF vs CLF sanda rules I think it's ok, we don't need another type of comp

[Shaolindynasty]

Here's a better video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7OdDjZ0a50&feature=related

You can see his 2nd fight which he fought right after the 1st. he was completely spent but still did pretty good.

Sanda has alot of potential for all kung fu practitioners if they would embrace it.

[yutyeesam]

that was awesome! i wish i were there to see it. nfma always does well in san shou!

totally agree, there are plenty of venues for clf folks to test their skills, no reason to try to go through the headache of creating yet another association to be able to have sanctioned full contact fights.

although, the way the process goes of the logistics of setting up san shou in the TCMA community, i know David Ross is not a fan of, so you'll never see nysanda at a legends of kung fu or a pan-american wushu or icmac. which is too bad, b/c he produces some top level athletes, using some very traditional chinese martial arts methods, and it'd be great to see such high level players in action.