Chinese Wushu Association - Duan Rank

[eric_thomson]

Posted: Jan 15, 2003 - 11:09 PM
Hi all,

I read in a recent Kungfu/Qi Gong article (see quote below) that China started the Duan system in 1997. Can anyone elaborate on the Duan System. What are the belt/sash levels and titles. Generally what criteria is to be met in order to achieve Duan ranks? Is it just a time practicing or age thing, etc. Is the Duan system based on an older or traditional ranking system? I was under the impression that belts etc. is a modern development and that traditionally ranks/sashes/belts were not awarded, that is, students always deferred to their sifu and older Kung Fu brothers and sisters and did not need belts to know who their brothers and sisters were.

"In an effort to standardize Chinese martial arts, the People's Republic of China (PRC) established a national ranking system for masters, the Duan system. Officially commencing in 1997, there are nine levels of Duan. Currently, only four living masters have been recognized as the highest level, Ninth Duan. The youngest of which is Grandmaster Ma Xianda of Xian, China's old capital."

Ching, Gena and Oh, Gigi "The Muslim Master of the Old Empire: An interview with Grandmaster Ma Xianda" Kungfu Magazine 2002 Nov/Dec. Available at <http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=244> Accessed Jan. 14, 2003.

Sincerely,
Eric Thomson

[Sho]

It's pretty much the same as the belt system in karate and judo. I don't think it has any traditional (Chinese) roots. The duan system is only used in contemporary wushu and it doesn't apply for traditional martial arts. Maybe Gene can explain it in greater depth, umm.

[norther practitioner]

lol @ Ching, Gena....


There is also a question as to who actually looks and follows the duan system.

[golden arhat]

???????????????:confused:

[Ben Gash]

It's a technical ranking system for sport wushu. I seem to remember seeing that it was on it's way out.

[Shaolinlueb]

It's a technical ranking system for sport wushu. I seem to remember seeing that it was on it's way out.

yes, its a ranking system kinda like belts.... but with jo belts. each duan has a different level of difficulty and such. i honestly havent heard anything of it. ben is probably right then that its on its way out.

[SPJ]

duan used in this scenario would mean segments or degree.

you may have belt system color coded or duan.

you may have 5 or 6 duan.

each is technically more difficult than the previous one.

such as 2nd Duan is more advanced than the 1st Duan.

you need to have good base of the first duan to move on to the next duan.

if it is on its way out.

you may have the 3 levels, beginner, intermediate and advanced levels.

or you just have one composite level.

either for practice purpose or wushu tao lu comp.

[Eddie]

Its not on its way out. The IWuF is still pushing it, and I know many traditional masters in China who started accepting this.

Our local Wushu Federation was talking about implementing the duan system down here. Still not completely sure if I like it or not.

[GeneChing]

The duan system is an international ranking system established by the PRC. It's not exclusively for wushu at all, but given that most of the major political players in PRC now wushu, it's dominated by wushu people. Still, there are some traditional masters that participate in this system.

We discussed the duan system in our cover story The Muslim Master of the Old Empire: An interview with Grandmaster Ma Xianda (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=244) from our 2002 November/December (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=236). This online article is unabridged, but it doesn't include a short sidebar that ran with this article that broke down the duan system a little more completely. Basically, duan 1-3 is certified on a municipal or city level, 4-6 is certified provincially and 7-9 is national. There are a lot of issues with the duan system because it's based more on politics than skill level, but given the nature of the beast, that's not surprising. Keep in mind that teaching martial arts is a respectable career in PRC - people go to college for it. There is a national system of certification and it is tied to the duan system.

What's ironic is that Shaolin has established it's own independent duan system, which I reported in Battling to be Shaolin’s Best: The Shaolin Kung Fu Grade “A” Tournament in our 2003 Shaolin special (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397). Other groups have established duan systems too, mostly outside of China. What's funny is that some of the non-PRC duan systems go to 10 instead of 9, which betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of Chinese culture. It's a classic clash of East vs. West that reminds me a lot of Spinal Tap (this amp goes to eleven!)

You might take a peek at our latest cover story too - The Big Monk of Shaolin Temple: Mantis Grandmaster Yu Hai (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=688) in our 2007 January/February (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=687), since it discusses a leading master who rejected the duan system.

[Scott Larson]

I was wondering if any of the forum members had any knowledge pertaining to the Chinese Wushu Association's method of duan ranking. Would this be a useful credential to seek out? Any information would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[SanHeChuan]

In the martial arts credentials aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. The only credential is skill.

[David Jamieson]

I was wondering if any of the forum members had any knowledge pertaining to the Chinese Wushu Association's method of duan ranking. Would this be a useful credential to seek out? Any information would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

*waits for Gene*...

Gene knows about this ranking system and has written about it too I think.
Maybe he'll pipe in here and give you some info.

If you are a performance wushu artist, then yes, it's a worthwhile thing to pursue.

[KC Elbows]

In the martial arts credentials aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on.

Ironically, all that board breaking has reduced the value of paper.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

How is Duan different from Kyu? As far as I can tell, there are 10 Duan and 20 Kyu.

If the levels were properly tied to skill, then they would be useful.

[Syn7]

In the martial arts credentials aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. The only credential is skill.

can i get a witness?????? :D

[SIFU RON]

In the martial arts credentials aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on. The only credential is skill.

Poor attitude to have, many of us are proud to have certificates signed by our teachers in all styles of M/A. Teachers such as YC Wong, the late Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, and all the other legitimate teachers past and present.

The make believe's, self-taught, and wanna-be's don't count .

[David Jamieson]

also, in China, wushu is university level accreditation.

it would be like a degree in PE equivalent.

Certificates can be viewed with some disregard, but really they do denote that someone has at the very least put in the work required to attain one.

Yes, some are handed out in a dubious manner, but some are hella hard to get because the work is hella hard as well.

not everything has to be set to the mma standard. lol

in fact the duan ranking system is aimed directly at standards for performance wushu. I believe they view the traditional arts as treasures as opposed to something that can be certified and ranked. But wu shu? there are standard routines and it can be judged like figure skating et al.

Besides, everything is ranked and certified in sports. Whats the difference between a belt and a certificate? They both say you suffered.

Also, in a very snide way I have to say that those who are quick to shoot down certs and belts more often than not don't have any of their own to be proud of. :p *zing*

[Syn7]

Poor attitude to have, many of us are proud to have certificates signed by our teachers in all styles of M/A.

thats cool and im glad you have recieved recognition and have papers to be proud of... but these papers themselves arent whats great, its the recognition that caused the papers to even happen that is the good part...

that being said, you cant expect other people who dont know your style, branch or teachers to look at the paper and be like "oh he must be legit and very good at kung fu"... there is alot of fraudulent paperwork out there...

too many people use them like a person would use a college degree to back a claim...


same goes for belts... if some mcdojo teacher gives a rank to a student, it doesnt mean i have to respect that rank... and it mos def doesnt mean that they are on par with everyone else who has the same rank in the same styles or other styles... one black belt isnt gonna be as good as others... ive seen blackbelts get the snot beat out of them by teenagers with no fighting training whatsoever... so to me, a belt doesnt mean much untill i see what you can do...


but that in no way says that you shouldnt be proud of your own accomplishments... just dont expect everyone to aknowledge them because you have it on paper... fair enoug,h yeah???

[YouKnowWho]

What does that mean that if you have a certificate to proof that you can please audience and judges better than others? Does that mean you have less self-confidence that you need others to say that you are great in order to make you feel good?

[wutymes]

The Duan ranking means a lot more in China than belts or whatever means in the US. I am surprised anyone would even draw a parallel between these two...


Chinese wushu is studied on a physical and academic level by accredited universities and researchers. there is the theory side, and the practical side. Duan is just part of the university system for the physical requirements (not sure about academic). It's systematic, not like some guy just made up some rankings and decided "ok you're black."

[RenDaHai]

The Duan system in China is not so well respected. It doesn't mean much.

However it is not just for contempary wushu. It exists for traditional wushu as well. One system is used to cover all styles of wushu. So Taiji and Shaolin and wudang will all sit at the same exam. A standard grading is 3 days long. You prepare with one of the masters who watches you for the three days and is one of the judges at the end. At the end you are judged by 5 national judges. They are from all over china. The grading used to be held only once every two years... i don't know what its like now.

There is a written exam, several lectures and the final performance. Although it is only judged on your ability to perform and on theory and not on your knowledge of application and strategy.

Up to 3rd Duan (San Duan Wei) it seems very easy. 4th 5th require skill. 6th requires an essay as well. 7th requires that you have made a significant contribution to wushu, like written several books, etc. 8th is only for old famous masters and 9th is only held by a couple of people at a time.

The foreigners Exam and the Chinese Exam is different.

I did this in Dengfeng once a few years ago because my school wanted me too. Personally I have a Silver Tiger (if you have done it you will know the rank).

Everyone here knows it doesn't mean anything, only that you have good body condition because you can make it look cool.

I don't know if it is recognised in the west. I don't know why you would need it.... for insurance purposes maybe....

[GeneChing]

I just got back from vacation. :cool:

As David said, I've written a lot on the duan system. In fact, the cover story of our upcoming issue (on newsstands October 5th) is all about the duan system. You all will have to check it out because it's kind of crazy what's happening there now.

Only a few non-Chinese have been duan certified, mostly because it begins with regional level exams. Here's an old post of mine that gives the short answer to your question (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=725636&postcount=6), Scott. As a westerner, I wouldn't seek it out. I'd just train in China and if it happens, it happens.

One thing I'll say about the duan system: all the nine duan holders are very interesting. It takes a lot to rise to that level - martial skill, political shrewdness, and a lifetime dedicated to the martial arts. Say what you may about the duan system, but all of the nine duan holders are worthy of the utmost respect. As a footnote, that post was in 2006. We've had additional nine duan holders on our cover since then.

[SPJ]

1. duan 段 as pointed out is a certification process from local, provincial to national.

as a public recongised levels.

2. personally, I prefer Ji 级 or grade just like in public school, from first grade to grade 12 etc.

you may stage or group the training/teaching curriculum into 12 grades. each grade, there is a test to pass both oral and performing exams.

3. the easier ones to set up may be Jie 阶 or step/level

1, chu jie beginner level

2. zhong jie intermediate level

3. gao jie advance or high level

these are arbitrary or man made standards. as long as there are criteria that most people agree on so that we know what they mean in your school or style.

2 pennies of mine.

:)

[GeneChing]

This is the only CWA thread here and this had to be shared.


https://s.newtalk.tw/album/news/580/60acb8c094de4.jpg
The Chinese media exploded that Chanel was accused of plagiarism by the Chinese Wushu Association and the official media quickly clarified (https://www.archyde.com/the-chinese-media-exploded-that-chanel-was-accused-of-plagiarism-by-the-chinese-wushu-association-and-the-official-media-quickly-clarified-china-%E6%96%B0%E5%A4%B4%E5%A3%B3-newtalk/) | China | 新头壳 Newtalk
May 25, 2021 by archyde


Chanel was accused of trademark plagiarism by the Guizhou Wushu Branch of the Chinese Wushu Association and was spread through Chinese media and Weibo.Picture: Reversed from Weibo

The trademark battle between Chanel, a well-known French boutique, and Huawei, a major Chinese technology company, has not yet ended. Chinese media have reported this afternoon, but now the Chinese Wushu Association Guizhou Wushu Branch has accused him of plagiarism and filed a complaint with the local court in Guizhou, China. However, they denied it in the evening, and the official media took the lead to point out that there was no organization like the Guizhou Branch of the Chinese Wushu Association in China.

Chanel recently accused Huawei of infringement due to the similarity of Huawei’s computer hardware trademarks. In April, the European Court of Justice issued a ruling. It believed that the direction of Chanel’s trademark is different from that of Huawei. The direction of Chanel is horizontal, while the trademark of Huawei is vertical. Chanel’s trademark curve is more rounded and the lines are thicker. It is considered that there are differences between the two, and it is judged that Chanel loses the case.

Unexpectedly, the trademark infringement between Chanel and Huawei has not ended, but now another organization in China has been sued. According to Chinese media reports such as Phoenix.com, the Guizhou Wushu Branch of the Chinese Wushu Association accused the Chanel trademark of plagiarizing the traditional Chinese weapon “Bagua Ziwu Mandarin Duck”. They pointed out that the two intersect in a semicircle and are very similar. They also claimed that Chanel desecrated Chinese culture. The Nanming District Court of Guizhou City has accepted the case and will hear the case soon.

However, the news was officially refuted in the evening. According to the Beijing News Shell Finance reporter via Weibo, the Chinese Wushu Association and the Guizhou Provincial Wushu Association both denied the incident and stated that there is no such organization as the Guizhou Branch of the Chinese Wushu Association. . The People’s Daily also claimed through Weibo that the news was false.