Forms

[DioForever]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody had tips on how to perform forms better. I have a problem with tensing up and cant seem to do the form in a fluid motion. I know practice makes perfect, but It feels like I just cant get it right. I would like to get better at it before my Sifu makes me do it in front of the class again....lol. I have been taking my style for about 3 months now and only know half the first form, maybe i shouldnt be so hard on myself idk...i want to get this right!

[Drake]

Find a happy place away from thinking about the form. And do it in a way that fits you. There's basics to follow, but the rest depends on your body type.

It's like anything else. You let it consume you and your movements will appear stilted and jagged. But you do it as a natural flow of your body, and it will come much easier. Watch the transitions, and flow into them instead of "reciting" moves.

[tiaji1983]

lol I had the same issue when I started learning Chen Style Taijiquan.

I had an extremely hard time learning the form, and I would try mimicing the movements and would forget a movement here and there, and my form looked horrible. Then I discovered the secret of how I learn.

What I learned about myself, is that if I dont think, and I follow the movement, and then repeat it, it sticks. We learn the forms in sections. If I repeat it 9 times, it becomes body memory. Then I just perform it and make adjustments to make my stances and movements more comfortable without losing the purpose, and it helps me relax, and it looks better. The key is, if you think about it, you lose it. By not thinking I mean, pay attention, but dont try to memorize it or analyze it. then repeat repeat repeat. My teacher says do it 1 million times. Then once its becomes natural, you can think and research the movements and discover more uses for it. Now I can learn a decent sized form within a couple weeks and retain it exactly as it was taught to me. Notice I said LEARN not MASTER for those of you who were gonna say something. :p

[Eric Hunstad]

DioForever

There are at least three traditional methods to train kung fu forms: the Diamond Cutting Method, the Divide and Conquer Method, and Saturation Training.

In a nutshell, in the Diamond Cutting Method there are 9 ways (or "facets" of the diamond) to work your form and each facet represents one aspect that you hone. In the Divide and Conquer Method, break the form down into small roads and work them individually, and Saturation Training is to put in large repetitions of the form as you are learning it.

I wrote a new book called Old School Kung Fu that goes into much more detail and it can be purchased at www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

Yes it's a shameless plug, but...

1. This book was written specifically for guys like you. You have a Sifu and are training in a traditional kung fu system (I am assuming) but just need something more. You have the material but just need someone to show you how to work it so you can advance more quickly.

2. The book is written to benefit any kung fu student, regardless of the style they practice or their current skill level.

3. I need the money! LOL!!!

Eric Hunstad
Theres no school like the Old School!

Old School Kung Fu: "As old as the ancient, as new as the future"

[Dragonzbane76]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody had tips on how to perform forms better. I have a problem with tensing up and cant seem to do the form in a fluid motion. I know practice makes perfect, but It feels like I just cant get it right. I would like to get better at it before my Sifu makes me do it in front of the class again....lol. I have been taking my style for about 3 months now and only know half the first form, maybe i shouldnt be so hard on myself idk...i want to get this right!

doing it thousands upon thousands of times.....you know it back to front and can carry on a conversation while doing the form without thought. sorry but experience and practice are the best for things like this. my opinion... don't get so wrapped up in forms....learn the applications and test them. :p

[MightyB]

Break it down and practice the difficult moves and transitions in isolation. Work on your leg strength and flexibility. The best way to develop leg strength for forms performance is... I can't believe I'm saying this... static low stance training. The stronger your legs are, the easier it is to develop smoothness with your hip movement (a key component of TCMA).

[MightyB]

and... video tape yourself (don't post it). You'll be able to see where your rough spots are and will be able to work on correcting them.

[EarthDragon]

mightyB already said the best way and that is to video tape yurosefl doingn it so you can see how you move compared to teh other studetns in class with whom you have seen doing he same set.

also practice it slowly and easily with no power just go through it relaxed and breath normally most people hold thier breath when first learning a set so have stay relaxed remember its just kung fu

[SavvySavage]

DioForever

There are at least three traditional methods to train kung fu forms: the Diamond Cutting Method, the Divide and Conquer Method, and Saturation Training.

In a nutshell, in the Diamond Cutting Method there are 9 ways (or "facets" of the diamond) to work your form and each facet represents one aspect that you hone. In the Divide and Conquer Method, break the form down into small roads and work them individually, and Saturation Training is to put in large repetitions of the form as you are learning it.

I wrote a new book called Old School Kung Fu that goes into much more detail and it can be purchased at www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

Yes it's a shameless plug, but...

1. This book was written specifically for guys like you. You have a Sifu and are training in a traditional kung fu system (I am assuming) but just need something more. You have the material but just need someone to show you how to work it so you can advance more quickly.

2. The book is written to benefit any kung fu student, regardless of the style they practice or their current skill level.

3. I need the money! LOL!!!

Eric Hunstad
Theres no school like the Old School!

Old School Kung Fu: "As old as the ancient, as new as the future"


I was looking through the table of contents. Are you for or against eating meat?

[YouKnowWho]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody had tips on how to perform forms better.
You need to watch somone who can do a good form first. Without understanding what a good form suppose to look like, it's difficult to do a good form yourself. I'll consider the following clip "good form". A good form should be very pleasant to watch.

http://johnswang.com/LF1.wmv

There are 3 stages of learning a form.

- copy your teacher (or senior students)
- polish by your teacher (or senior students)
- add personal flavor (by yourself only)

Many things need to pay attention when you train your form.

- When your body move, all body parts move. When your body stop, all body parts stop at the same time.
- Your eyes should always follow your "major" hand.
- Use slow move to set up fast move. Don't throw 3 punches in the same speed, use slow, fast, fast, or ...
- Try to use exponational speed instead of linear speed.
- Use the end of the previous move to set up the beginning of the next move.
- Always use your body to pull your limbs.
- Always train your form in "combat speed" and never train your form in "slow speed".

[Eric Hunstad]

SavvySavage

I am against eating meat. Please PM me or start a new thread if you want to discuss further, as I don't want to hijack DioForevers thread.

Eric Hunstad
Old School Kung Fu: "As old as the ancient, as new as the future"
www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

[YouKnowWho]

I am against eating meat.

You are not along there, but some people (not me) said that vegetable can feel pain too. I don't have any nomble reason not to eat meat (such as "against killing"). The reason that I don't eat meat because I just don't like the smell of it.

[bawang]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody had tips on how to perform forms better. I have a problem with tensing up and cant seem to do the form in a fluid motion. I know practice makes perfect, but It feels like I just cant get it right. I would like to get better at it before my Sifu makes me do it in front of the class again....lol. I have been taking my style for about 3 months now and only know half the first form, maybe i shouldnt be so hard on myself idk...i want to get this right!

i recommend anusol. its great

Anusol® - Get Comfortable

[Oso]

LOL at all the karate guys going 'wtf?' in YKW's clip.

[Oso]

oh yea...

"Save a Broccoli, eat a Cow"

:p

[YouKnowWho]

LOL at all the karate guys going 'wtf?' in YKW's clip.

That was the year when Bruce Lee died.

[Oso]

figgered it was early 70's or so.

did you win a big trophy? :D

[iron_leg_dave]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody had tips on how to perform forms better. I have a problem with tensing up and cant seem to do the form in a fluid motion. I know practice makes perfect, but It feels like I just cant get it right. I would like to get better at it before my Sifu makes me do it in front of the class again....lol. I have been taking my style for about 3 months now and only know half the first form, maybe i shouldnt be so hard on myself idk...i want to get this right!


Like honey, like water, like lightening.

First you practice like honey leaving the hive... etc...

[mooyingmantis]

Think of forms like music and watch for cadence/tempo in a form. Where are the slow motions? Where are the fast motions? Where are the pauses?

[DioForever]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I am going on month four now and am almost done with my first form. I figured out where some of my problems were at. Mainly it was the placing of the foot to build that twist from horse to bow for punches. I recently noticed my leaning problem when doing my forms as well and that's being not as much of a pain to fix as I thought....my form is improving a lot since sifu told me I was going to have to show off to our chinese schools. Been taking it more seriously

[TenTigers]

I'll consider the following clip "good form". A good form should be very pleasant to watch.

http://johnswang.com/LF1.wmv


reminds me of Alex Kwok from Canada

[YouKnowWho]

reminds me of Alex Kwok from Canada

I think that was him. I met him and his Kung Fu brother Johnny Lee in a Dallas Karate tournament. That was when they just came to US during the year that Bruce Lee just dies.

[Royal Dragon]

You need to watch somone who can do a good form first. Without understanding what a good form suppose to look like, it's difficult to do a good form yourself. I'll consider the following clip "good form". A good form should be very pleasant to watch.

http://johnswang.com/LF1.wmv

There are 3 stages of learning a form.

- copy your teacher (or senior students)
- polish by your teacher (or senior students)
- add personal flavor (by yourself only)

Many things need to pay attention when you train your form.

- When your body move, all body parts move. When your body stop, all body parts stop at the same time.
- Your eyes should always follow your "major" hand.
- Use slow move to set up fast move. Don't throw 3 punches in the same speed, use slow, fast, fast, or ...
- Try to use exponational speed instead of linear speed.
- Use the end of the previous move to set up the beginning of the next move.
- Always use your body to pull your limbs.
- Always train your form in "combat speed" and never train your form in "slow speed".

Reply]
I disagree with your last point. NOTHING gave me more improvement than training my forms super slow with focus on body mechanics.

[YouKnowWho]

I treat form as testing, and I treat drills (break form apart) as training. If I want to "focus on body mechanics", I do that in my drills training instead. I like to use form to test my speed, power, balance, endurance, flexibility, ... in combat speed. If I can still perform my form in combat speed when I'm 80 years old, my health shoulde still be OK. If I have to "slow down" my form when I'm 80, then I know my body may not be in as good shape as I think, and may be I should stay away from those 20 years girls a little bit more.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Reply]
I disagree with your last point. NOTHING gave me more improvement than training my forms super slow with focus on body mechanics.

You do know that the mechanics for doing somethign fast and doing something slow are NOT the same right?

[David Jamieson]

To do forms better, break them down into their parts, understand those parts, then reassemble and disassemble as desired.

The true secret is not a secret at all, it's just practice, keep practicing.

but extrapolation helps you to understand what in the form you are doing.

break each combo out, try it alone, try it on a heavy bag or mitts in a drill, get to know how your body performs it optimally, do it that way in the form.

[Royal Dragon]

At the base level, it's all the same. It just seems different because speed adds momentum.

[TenTigers]

oh yeah, and I forgot...
"save the trees, eat a beaver."

[taai gihk yahn]

At the base level, it's all the same. It just seems different because speed adds momentum.

no, it also changes the entire dynamics of global postural function, proprioception and visual / vestibular integration;

[DioForever]

what works best for me is to do it a lot slowly until the movemennts are in my muscle memory then I start picking up speed.

[18elders]

I think he is talking about learning and performing the moves of a form correctly, not sure he is too worried about the functions of his inner ear right now.

Stretch well, warm up well,
STAY RELAXED, DON'T MUSCLE THE MOVES.
Concentrate on hip movement, how the power is being generated, proper foot alignment in your stance and transitional movement.
Go slow, don't worry about power and speed right now, that will come with time.
Get the moves in your muscle memory, slowly increase power and speed.
Master the proper techniques(moves).
you can also train it in your mind, close your eyes and perform the moves in your head.
the more you train your form the better it will get.

[DioForever]

18elders, I started going through my form during meditation and before sleeping. That's what helped me find some of my flaws

[mickey]

Greetings,

The late James Dean had a similar performance problem while he was working in the film GIANT.

There was an outdoor scene that was being watched by a throng of people and James Dean could not get his lines right. He just kept messing up. So he got fed up and addressed the problem his own way. He unzipped his pants in front of hundreds of observers and took a leak. He then zipped up his pants and got through the scene on the first take.

How to use this?

Deliberately perform your worst performance and then understand that you are a lot better than that. That worst performance will take the edge off.

mickey

[Royal Dragon]

no, it also changes the entire dynamics of global postural function, proprioception and visual / vestibular integration;

Sure, if your mechanics suck, and you have to cheat by doing it wrong when you move with speed.

[Yum Cha]

Pak mei trains its forms like windsprints. Anaerobic.

Best advice, when in doubt do it again. Nothing cerebral will solve a physical issue better than practice. Sure you can explain it cerebrally, but why bother with the middleman.

Also, never work on new stuff until you have done all of your old stuff. If you don't have enough time, then you are learning too much. Its that discipline that forces the reps on the basic stuff, its process, not choice.

[DioForever]

Well my form is deffinetly coming along good. I got maybe four more moves? I was practicing last night and noticed when I go through it I watch my hands and feet....when I started looking where I was supposed to it actually improved it more than I thought. The progress feels great.... Kung Fu ftw