Poverty and foreclosures up

[BJJ-Blue]

More bad economic news out this week. So now we have unemployment, foreclosures, and poverty up since GW Bush left office. Way to go Obamanomics!

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Census_poverty_rate/index.htm?hpt=T1
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/16/poverty-rate-jumps-level/

[David Jamieson]

More bad economic news out this week. So now we have unemployment, foreclosures, and poverty up since GW Bush left office. Way to go Obamanomics!

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Census_poverty_rate/index.htm?hpt=T1
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/16/poverty-rate-jumps-level/

You don't have any understanding of residual effects, or ramifications of policies do you.

so in the moment. You are like a zen master of the absurd. :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

You don't have any understanding of residual effects, or ramifications of policies do you.

so in the moment. You are like a zen master of the absurd. :rolleyes:

Yeah, according to 1Blue here, the gains during Clinton's 8 years were all because of Bush Sr, but Bush Jr. hasn't affected Obama at all.

[YouKnowWho]

foreclosures...

It's time to buy properties if you are in the top 2%. That's the beauty of the capitalism! Your pain is my happiness.

[BJJ-Blue]

You don't have any understanding of residual effects, or ramifications of policies do you.

Of course I do. When you saddle business and citizenry with high taxes and regulations, it has bad ramifications and residual effects. I just posted about that!

You're just mad that two years ago I predicited if he implemented the policies he said he would it would get worse, and so far I've been proven correct.

[BJJ-Blue]

Yeah, according to 1Blue here, the gains during Clinton's 8 years were all because of Bush Sr, but Bush Jr. hasn't affected Obama at all.

Never once did I say that. But how you can blame Bush for the debt when Obama has spent more in under 2 years than Bush did in any 2 years of his Administration is beyond me. The man has been out of office almost 2 friggin years now!

I still am waiting for one of you 'blame Bush' guys to answer my question: when does the economy become Obama's economy?


It's time to buy properties if you are in the top 2%. That's the beauty of the capitalism! Your pain is my happiness.

I'm not in the top 2%, but I'll be looking at real estate when my current lease is up. I may or may not buy, but interest rates are very low and supply is higher than demand right now. Of course property values are dropping, and buying something whose value is dropping is not exactly the smartest thing you can do.

As to your dig at capitalism, remember it all started because millions of people signed ridiculous ARMs to buy houses they couldn't afford. So people buying real estate at these lower prices are not making money off of other's pain, they are making money off of other's stupidity. And I'm all for that! ;)

[YouKnowWho]

What's wrong to have higher tax for the top 2%?

[BJJ-Blue]

What's wrong to have higher tax for the top 2%?

It's unfair. If we all pay the same rate, it's still going to work out that the more you earn, the more you pay. It's basic math.

And the top 1% of wage earners already pay 39% of all Federal income taxes. How much is enough?

[MasterKiller]

I'm all for a flat rate. Just because you make more doesn't mean your burden should be increased.

Ina country where everyone is equal, taxes should be equal.

[Syn7]

More bad economic news out this week. So now we have unemployment, foreclosures, and poverty up since GW Bush left office. Way to go Obamanomics!

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/16/news/economy/Census_poverty_rate/index.htm?hpt=T1
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/16/poverty-rate-jumps-level/

the fact that the bush administration left obamas administration with the largest debt ever accumulated in two terms, a couple wars and an economic nightmare that just blows reganomics and the conservative model out of the water... none of that could have anything to do with it... and the fact that obama cant fix this in a year makes him a failure??? another testament to your biased conservative position... madoff is a conservative byproduct... non interferance just makes it easier for the little guy to get ripped off... if the conservatives had their way there wouldnt even be an SEC...

anyways, its so unfair to expect anyone, republican or democrat, to clean up the mess left by the previous administration in even one term... its alot easier to mess up your room than it is to clean it up man, you should understand this if you want anyone to take any of your socio-economical opinions seriously...

[BJJ-Blue]

I'm all for a flat rate. Just because you make more doesn't mean your burden should be increased.

Ina country where everyone is equal, taxes should be equal.

Not only did you state that very well, I agree 100% with you.

[YouKnowWho]

Most of the beach houses in Shell Beach, Ca are empty. Every morning when I jog in front of those houses, I can't see anybody in there. Those multi-million dollars houses are the 2nd vacation homes for those top 2%. If they can afford to leave their house vacant most of the year, they should have no problem to pay higher tax.

During tough economy time the rich should help the poor and higher tax is the least that they can contribute.

[BJJ-Blue]

the fact that the bush administration left obamas administration with the largest debt ever accumulated in two terms, a couple wars and an economic nightmare that just blows reganomics and the conservative model out of the water... none of that could have anything to do with it... and the fact that obama cant fix this in a year makes him a failure??? another testament to your biased conservative position... madoff is a conservative byproduct... non interferance just makes it easier for the little guy to get ripped off... if the conservatives had their way there wouldnt even be an SEC...

anyways, its so unfair to expect anyone, republican or democrat, to clean up the mess left by the previous administration in even one term... its alot easier to mess up your room than it is to clean it up man, you should understand this if you want anyone to take any of your socio-economical opinions seriously...

This may be news to you, but Carter left Reagan alot worse of an economy than Bush left Obama. Interest rates were at all time highs, inflation was in double digits, and unemployment was quite high. The Misery Indes has NEVER been higher than it was under Carter. And Reagan did fine (there was a hiccup in 1982, but by 1983 the economy was full speed ahead). And don't forget gas lines, and the Iranian hostage issue either.

As to this recession "blows reganomics and the conservative model out of the water", please show me where Reagan and/or conservatives advocated people using ARMs to buy houses they could not afford, and I'll admit you are right. We all know the mortgage mess was what got the ball rolling on this recession.

It's gonna be really, really funny when Obamanomics continues to fail, and things only get better once we get large tax cuts (or other conservative economic principles in place). Of course when that happens you guys will just say it took awhile for Obama's policies to finally kick in. ;)

[MasterKiller]

Regan also raised taxes. Obama hasn't had a chance to do that yet.

[BJJ-Blue]

Most of the beach houses in Shell Beach, Ca are empty. Every morning when I jog in front of those houses, I can't see anybody in there. Those multi-million dollars houses are the 2nd vacation homes for those top 2%. If they can afford to leave their house vacant most of the year, they should have no problem to pay higher tax.

And jealously rears it's ugly head once again.

Let me give you some good advice for life. Be happy with what you have, and don't get upset because of what others have. Trust me, you will enjoy life so much more.

[BJJ-Blue]

Regan also raised taxes. Obama hasn't had a chance to do that yet.

He cut ALOT more than he raised. And I'm referring to income taxes, as those rates have the quickest effect on the economy. Obama is now trying to raise taxes as we speak. Of course during the campaign he said it's bad policy to raise taxes during a recession....

[YouKnowWho]

And jealously rears it's ugly head once again.

When a company is in trouble, should the company lay off workers or just cut pay from those CEOs? I don't see "jealous" play any part here. One CEO's pay cut can save 1000 worker's jobs. That's just a simple math and even a caveman can figure that out.

You can present the voice for those top 2%, but I will always stand on the side of the lower 98%.

[Syn7]

This may be news to you, but Carter left Reagan alot worse of an economy than Bush left Obama. Interest rates were at all time highs, inflation was in double digits, and unemployment was quite high. The Misery Indes has NEVER been higher than it was under Carter. And Reagan did fine (there was a hiccup in 1982, but by 1983 the economy was full speed ahead). And don't forget gas lines, and the Iranian hostage issue either.

As to this recession "blows reganomics and the conservative model out of the water", please show me where Reagan and/or conservatives advocated people using ARMs to buy houses they could not afford, and I'll admit you are right. We all know the mortgage mess was what got the ball rolling on this recession.

It's gonna be really, really funny when Obamanomics continues to fail, and things only get better once we get large tax cuts (or other conservative economic principles in place). Of course when that happens you guys will just say it took awhile for Obama's policies to finally kick in. ;)


yeah.... two words... oliver north...

regan was a criminal... and a wimp that let one of his henchmen take the fall for him... if he really believed it was the right way to act, he wouldnt have distanced himself when they got caught... only a retard would believe his hands werent all over that whole fiasco...

carter didnt leave two wars and his track record in the middle east was soooo much better...

i wouldnt vote rep or dem with a completely clear concience... i dont agree with all of obamas policy, but i'll take him over bush every time... no matter what, both extremes are always going to be wrong... good government sits in the middle, closer to the middle the better... especially in a country that is so divided...

[YouKnowWho]

The system creates the rich. When the system is in trouble, the rich should contribute back to the system. That's just simple logic.

[Drake]

Pres. Obama raised taxes? When?

[Drake]

And more importantly, do you have way of showing that is the direct result of foreclosures rising? Last I checked, the collapse of Lehman Bros sort of pushed that catastrophe along. You know, having one dollar to every 40 they owed. A huge number of high risk home loans. That's Pres Obama's fault? I can't even see how that is Fmr Pres Bush's fault, even.

This is like.... economics for mongoloids...

[Syn7]

This is like.... economics for mongoloids...

hey now thats not very PC of you, maaan...:rolleyes:

:D

[BJJ-Blue]

yeah.... two words... oliver north...

What in the world did Oliver North have to do with Reaganomincs?

FYI, we are discussing economics on this thread. Let's try and stay on topic.

[BJJ-Blue]

And more importantly, do you have way of showing that is the direct result of foreclosures rising? Last I checked, the collapse of Lehman Bros sort of pushed that catastrophe along. You know, having one dollar to every 40 they owed. A huge number of high risk home loans. That's Pres Obama's fault? I can't even see how that is Fmr Pres Bush's fault, even.

This is like.... economics for mongoloids...

Most economists will tell you it was subprime mess that really set it off. It affected the ecomomy in many ways. First off, people lost their homes. Second, it created a sudden supply of homes, and at a time when demand for houses was going down. So it sent property values into a nosedive. And since so many (stupid) people had been counting on having equity on their homes after just a few years and using that to refinance out of the stupid ARMs they signed onto or using an equity loan to pay off large high-interest credit card balances, they now were stuck in homes they A) couldn't afford and B) they could not sell or refinance because they were suddenly upside-down on their mortgages. And the snowball continued; now the banks holding the mortgages that were rapidly defaulting started to fail. And the (stupid) people and companies who had bought bundles of those bad mortgages from the lenders started to fail as well.

I do agree it was not Bush's fault, nor Obama's. You've even seen me here Drake repeatedly asking the liberlas here to explain how Bush's econimc policies caused this mess and that not one has even taken a stab at that question. I'll also admit Obama's policies did not cause this recession. However, I maintain his policies are making it worse. And seeing how poverty rates, foreclosures, and unemployment are all up big time under him, I have alot of evidence to back my assertions up.

[MasterKiller]

I have alot of evidence to back my assertions up.


No, he did not. Again, please stop making things up.


It's moot. We are not discussing DWIs from the 1970s.

So was I making it up, or did Bush plead guilty to being a criminal?

[Syn7]

What in the world did Oliver North have to do with Reaganomincs?

FYI, we are discussing economics on this thread. Let's try and stay on topic.

it speaks to motives, integrity and just how far this man was willing to sidestep the law in order to push his agenda... and oliver north thing was all about money...

i dont really feel that social, economical and political discussions can be seperate, they are all so intertwined with eachother... foriegn policy is tied into economics just as much as domestic policy is...

reagan, as a whole character, wasnt a great man... wasnt even a good man, IMO...

[BJJ-Blue]

I noticed you really didn't address my posts concerning economics.

Syn, you were not participating the last time I asked my question, so I'll ask you now; Can you please explain how economic policies enacted by GW Bush's administration caused the recession we are in now?

[Syn7]

its not fair to put that on any one person or organization... i suppose if anyone is to blame its watchdogs who werent watching close enough...

BUT, bushs insane spending along with both wars added nothing but fuel to the fire... im not gonna argue that the wars are right or wrong here, but they are costly and inconvenient...

the conservative economic model demands less government involvement in the private sectors, and infact believe, in theory, that all sectors would run better as private... but its this lack of accountability in the private sector that lead the US down the road theyre on now... had the SEC been more vigilant madoff wouldnt have happened... shouldnt have happened... but according to the conservative model, accountability is dictated by the bottom line... so basically you leave a window of opportunity for anyone willing to break the rules for profit... people were putting immediate gains ahead longterm resposible business... alot of very wealthy men put alot of money in certain places, manipulated the markets, pulled their profits aswell as the rest of their capital and watched the deck of cards collapse secure in the knowledge that they have already distanced their money enough as to not take any losses... and the cycle went on... now what? i dont know, but something new is needed...

[BJJ-Blue]

its not fair to put that on any one person or organization... i suppose if anyone is to blame its watchdogs who werent watching close enough...

So even though you blame Bush for the mess, you cannot explain how his policies caused the mess??? :rolleyes:

[BJJ-Blue]

but its this lack of accountability in the private sector that lead the US down the road theyre on now...

I honestly do not mean this in a rude or insulting way, but you need to educate yourself in terms of Keynesian vs free market economics.

Just today Gov't figures released showed that in Los Angeles the 'stimulus' bill spent $111 million to save 55 jobs. That's a cost of about $2 mil/job!

And taking the 'stimulus' as a whole, Obama blew about $800 billion dollars, only to see unemployment go up over 2 percentage points. That, my friend, is a lack of accountability.

And remember this, if you remember nothing else I say: When private business shows a complete lack of accoutability, it does so at a cost to its shareholders who voluntarily invested in them. When Gov't shows a complete lack of accountability, it does so at a cost to every American taxpayer, whose money was forcefully taken from them.

[Syn7]

So even though you blame Bush for the mess, you cannot explain how his policies caused the mess??? :rolleyes:

i never said it was bush fault...and i never said i supported obamas policies... all i said was you cant blame obama for not being able to clean all that up in a year... i clearly stated that i wouldnt be able to vote for either of them with good concience...

see, this is the problem with alot of americans, they feel there are two ways of seeing politics, right and left... if i criticise right, i must support left... i didnt say any of what your assuming... thats on you... youve done that to almost everyone youve talked with on here...

and honestly, im happy to leave americans to their own devices as long as they keep the fukc out of my backyard... it seems the rest of the world agrees... yet a handful of halfwitt americans keep pushing their philosophy and then point fingers at whoever doesnt accept it as gospel... you want to be democratic? listen to the majority and p*ss off...

my issue with the american economy is the fact that its failing and not just americans are suffering the negative effects...

[BJJ-Blue]

i never said it was bush fault...and i never said i supported obamas policies... all i said was you cant blame obama for not being able to clean all that up in a year... i clearly stated that i wouldnt be able to vote for either of them with good concience...

Syn, I'm not blaming Obama for not fixing it in a year (actually he has had 18 months+). I'm blaming him for making it worse.


my issue with the american economy is the fact that its failing and not just americans are suffering the negative effects...

I understand your stance. But it is a double-edged sword. When bad economic news comes from places like Spain, Portugal, and Greece (among other places), we suffer as well. Every time more bad economic news comes out of those countries, our stock markets takes hits. And of course every American company who sells products and services to foreign countries sees it's bottom lines affected when those countries are having bad economic times.

[Drake]

Most economists will tell you it was subprime mess that really set it off. It affected the ecomomy in many ways. First off, people lost their homes. Second, it created a sudden supply of homes, and at a time when demand for houses was going down. So it sent property values into a nosedive. And since so many (stupid) people had been counting on having equity on their homes after just a few years and using that to refinance out of the stupid ARMs they signed onto or using an equity loan to pay off large high-interest credit card balances, they now were stuck in homes they A) couldn't afford and B) they could not sell or refinance because they were suddenly upside-down on their mortgages. And the snowball continued; now the banks holding the mortgages that were rapidly defaulting started to fail. And the (stupid) people and companies who had bought bundles of those bad mortgages from the lenders started to fail as well.

I do agree it was not Bush's fault, nor Obama's. You've even seen me here Drake repeatedly asking the liberlas here to explain how Bush's econimc policies caused this mess and that not one has even taken a stab at that question. I'll also admit Obama's policies did not cause this recession. However, I maintain his policies are making it worse. And seeing how poverty rates, foreclosures, and unemployment are all up big time under him, I have alot of evidence to back my assertions up.

Actually, economic reports are citing improvements, with us being officially out of the recession as of late 2009.

[Drake]

Link
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/20/news/economy/recession_over/index.htm?hpt=T1

[David Jamieson]

economic pundits say one thing while in actuality, another thing entirely is going on.

unemployment is still up, full time jobs with security and benefits are at an all time low.

There is more power in the hands of the few than of the many.


I don't know, I guess if you want to believe things are alright, then you go ahead and believe that.

Counting homeless people on the commute tells a different story from what a mutual fund broker might have to say...

any regulations on wall street yet or are we just waiting for the whole mess to happen again? I don't think it's going to be easy to sell anything to the rest of the world as far as financial "services" go.

maybe america should get back into manufacturing, you don't seem to be too good at banking or honesty. lol

[BJJ-Blue]

Actually, economic reports are citing improvements, with us being officially out of the recession as of late 2009.

They are either wrong, or biased. When unemployment, poverty rates, and home foreclosures are up, you cannot tell me with a straight face that the economy is improving.

Joe Biden called this summer the "Summer of Recovery" before the summer began. Unemployment stayed flat throughout the summer. Just because someone says something is happening does not make it true.


economic pundits say one thing while in actuality, another thing entirely is going on.

unemployment is still up, full time jobs with security and benefits are at an all time low.

There is more power in the hands of the few than of the many.

Very true.

Socialist/communist countries ALWAYS see the middle class get decimated. Look at Cuba, North Korea, and the USSR. You have the poor, which is ~95% of the population, and then you have the rich. Of course the rich were not the people who owned bussinesses and industry, the rich were the political class. There is a reason Castro is on the Forbes Richest List while the average cuban is on forced food rationing.


any regulations on wall street yet or are we just waiting for the whole mess to happen again? I don't think it's going to be easy to sell anything to the rest of the world as far as financial "services" go.

The mess only happened becasue Gov't got involved in the first place. And we did not teach those responsible a lesson. When a business makes bad decisions and faces bankruptcy, the way to handle it is to let them fail. But we actually rewarded their failures with TAXPAYER money. When people do not learn from their mistakes, they will inevitably repeat them. And the bailouts ensured that those who messed up did not have to face the consequences, ie learn their lesson.

[Drake]

They are either wrong, or biased. When unemployment, poverty rates, and home foreclosures are up, you cannot tell me with a straight face that the economy is improving.

Joe Biden called this summer the "Summer of Recovery" before the summer began. Unemployment stayed flat throughout the summer. Just because someone says something is happening does not make it true.



Very true.

Socialist/communist countries ALWAYS see the middle class get decimated. Look at Cuba, North Korea, and the USSR. You have the poor, which is ~95% of the population, and then you have the rich. Of course the rich were not the people who owned bussinesses and industry, the rich were the political class. There is a reason Castro is on the Forbes Richest List while the average cuban is on forced food rationing.



The mess only happened becasue Gov't got involved in the first place. And we did not teach those responsible a lesson. When a business makes bad decisions and faces bankruptcy, the way to handle it is to let them fail. But we actually rewarded their failures with TAXPAYER money. When people do not learn from their mistakes, they will inevitably repeat them. And the bailouts ensured that those who messed up did not have to face the consequences, ie learn their lesson.


Ok dude. The National Bureau of Economic Research is wrong, you are right. You win. Yay.