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Syn7
09-17-2010, 02:19 PM
as if they didnt have a bad enough track record...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100916/national/oilsands_fish_study


EDMONTON - The fish are hard to look at.


One whitefish has a golfball-sized tumour bulging from its side. Another is simply missing part of its spine, its tail growing from a stumpy rear end.


One has no snout. Another is coloured a lurid red instead of a healthy cream. Others are covered with lesions and still others are bent and crooked from deformed vertebrae.


All were taken from Lake Athabasca, downstream from the oilsands in northern Alberta, and were on display Thursday. All are reasons, say a group of scientists and aboriginals, for the federal government to conduct an independent study on what's happening to the Athabasca River and its watershed after decades of industry expansion.


"A lot of people are afraid to eat fish from the lake," said Robert Grandjambe of Fort Chipewyan, which is also downstream of the oilsands. "It's time we had a proper monitoring study done."


Prominent scientists, two area doctors, five past and present First Nations leaders, a local member of the legislature, the mayor of the Wood Buffalo municipality that includes Fort McMurray, and other area residents all support a letter requesting such a study that was sent to Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Thursday.


The fish aren't part of any formal scientific survey. But local anglers say the number of such deformed and disturbing catches is growing.


"I never even saw deformed fish in my younger days," said Grandjambe.


Also growing are the number of studies that link the oilsands industry and increasing levels of contaminants.


"I'm hoping that the prime minister will listen and some of the other politicians involved will say, 'This data is convincing enough,'" said University of Alberta biologist David Schindler, who has published a couple of such studies himself. "We've got to get closure on this and bring all of these suggestive studies together in a study that documents ... a possible link between fish health and human health."


Federal Enviroment Minister Jim Prentice told radio station CHQR on Thursday he is listening to calls for a monitoring program and said he has met with Schindler on the topic.


"I intend to get the bottom of it," he said. "(Schindler) showed me the research he has done. I intend to have some other people who have scientific expertise sit down with him and go through that, and then I'll determine what the next steps are."


Prentice said his department is testing out a new "fingerprinting" machine that can help determine if substances are naturally occurring or are from the oilsands.


"We'll be able to test in the water and determine where any substances came from. Not only whether they're in the water, but actually trace them back to their source."


Schindler said problems with fish started in the 1980s. "I began to hear complaints about bad taste, suspicious tumours and things like that."


A 1996 study on northern river basins called for a specific examination on contaminants and health.


"Nothing was ever done."

In 2007, Environment Canada completed work showing high levels of deformities in fish embryos exposed to oilsands. In 2008, Schindler himself did research that led to two published studies showing that levels of hydrocarbons — some carcinogenic — and toxic heavy metals, including mercury and lead, are both growing and linked to industry.

That same year, a study for the Canadian Council for Ministers of the Environment concluded that 12 per cent of Alberta's forest soils had probably reached the limit of how much acid they could hold, probably because of the oilsands.

Schindler said he is "very confident" that the fish presented Thursday, all caught by local fishers, demonstrate that the number of deformities is on the rise.

The Alberta government monitors the area's environment, largely through information provided by industry, but Schindler said the province's program lacks transparency and credibility. He points out that the industry's own figures in the federal pollutant registry show hundreds of kilograms of contaminants are released into the environment annually, yet don't show up in provincial reports.

"Any program that can't detect hundreds of kilograms of pollutants going into the atmosphere is an incompetent program."

Grandjambe agreed that it's time for the Alberta government to step aside and let Ottawa do the work.

"There's so much uncertainty and so much distrust of the government right now," he said.

"Fort Chipewyan is not healthy. A lifestyle is being stolen away."



and they continue to defend their practices and resist change with a multi million dollar legal team...

David Jamieson
09-18-2010, 08:34 AM
It's easy to complain about a liberal democracy because no one will shoot you for doing so.

There are a lot of reasons to buy oil from Canada, ethics of production is not the least of them.

Where else would Oil be purchased from?

Nigeria? Where the politicians pocket teh money and leave teh populace in terrible conditins with over 100 active leaks and spills taht aren't getting cleaned up because apparently they don't care?

Saudi Arabia? Private Oil fields owned by the royal family and no idea of how workers are treated but judging by the legal system in effect in that country, it's a safe bet that human rights and workers or labour laws are not of much concern there.

Iran? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Expensive!

Venezuela? I can hear 1bad65 pulling on his collar and making guulping sounds...

Will the tailings ponds be cleaned up? Yes, there is a project underway which will not only clean teh ponds but further extract petroleum that is still held within.

Has there been widespread environmental disaster? No. there has been soem as is evident by the ..and do note it is one, mutant fish with a claim of more, that is probable, but it is equally probable that a system can and will be installed to manage that issue.

Why? Because it's Canada! A liberal democracy with moderate wealth and sense of responsibility. I'm not saying it's perfect here, but it's a better place to do business than the alternatives and whatever problems are facing the situation, you have a better assurance that they will be addressed and resolved.

Because we're Canadians. :)

That is all. :D

David Jamieson
09-18-2010, 08:35 AM
spelling mistakes are my own, i am too lazy to edit. :p

Syn7
09-18-2010, 04:50 PM
canada has alot of oil... 1000 times what we need... and we havent even really started looking very hard... theres alot more up there in the territories...



my beef is with the willful negligence in creating more profits... just another manifestation of our prosper now, who cares about later type of attitude us westerners have...

we need to save money, okay cut healthcare, cut education, but lets spend half a billion on a dome roof and bailout irresponsible contractors who underbid olympic venues... we are a culture obsessed with instant gratification... its unfortunate...

they can get the oil and do alot less damage and still turn a MASSIVE profit... they just dont... kinda pi$ses me off...


i would also like to see the US, particularily california, to pay their tabs... i mean they could atleast START paying for energy and water we gave them decades ago, let alone todays tab... then they fukc us off on soft lumber... i am a western seperatist for sure... we dont need anything east of saskatchewan... we'd be a strong nation, esspecially if we could bring washington, oregon, cali, alaska and the west coast of mexico into the fold... there was a time when that was a real possibility... too bad it didnt work out... i complain about americans owing us money, but i also dont like how we have this 5 to1 dollar value from ottawa... we dont get anywhere near the value from what we send back east... 5-1 man, thats no good... its time that every province start carrying their own weight...

David Jamieson
09-20-2010, 12:44 PM
canada has alot of oil... 1000 times what we need... and we havent even really started looking very hard... theres alot more up there in the territories...



my beef is with the willful negligence in creating more profits... just another manifestation of our prosper now, who cares about later type of attitude us westerners have...

we need to save money, okay cut healthcare, cut education, but lets spend half a billion on a dome roof and bailout irresponsible contractors who underbid olympic venues... we are a culture obsessed with instant gratification... its unfortunate...

they can get the oil and do alot less damage and still turn a MASSIVE profit... they just dont... kinda pi$ses me off...


i would also like to see the US, particularily california, to pay their tabs... i mean they could atleast START paying for energy and water we gave them decades ago, let alone todays tab... then they fukc us off on soft lumber... i am a western seperatist for sure... we dont need anything east of saskatchewan... we'd be a strong nation, esspecially if we could bring washington, oregon, cali, alaska and the west coast of mexico into the fold... there was a time when that was a real possibility... too bad it didnt work out... i complain about americans owing us money, but i also dont like how we have this 5 to1 dollar value from ottawa... we dont get anywhere near the value from what we send back east... 5-1 man, thats no good... its time that every province start carrying their own weight...

I want to point this out to you, and to my fellow Canadians, but all the problems you've listed here are courtesy of Harper and his conservative party. Every single one.

the thing he is busy taking credit for (our banking system) had absolutely zero to do with any policy he had anything to do with. That's all thanks to Paul Martin, John Turner and Jean Chretian(All Liberals who set the regulations for our modern banking system after Mulroney tried raping it in the 80's)

Food for thought when that election rolls around. :)

I can't wait to throw a vote against that pompous ass Harper.

Syn7
09-20-2010, 02:23 PM
I want to point this out to you, and to my fellow Canadians, but all the problems you've listed here are courtesy of Harper and his conservative party. Every single one.

the thing he is busy taking credit for (our banking system) had absolutely zero to do with any policy he had anything to do with. That's all thanks to Paul Martin, John Turner and Jean Chretian(All Liberals who set the regulations for our modern banking system after Mulroney tried raping it in the 80's)

Food for thought when that election rolls around. :)

I can't wait to throw a vote against that pompous ass Harper.

agreed..................

federally its libs all the way... i'd like to see ignatief go tho... just dont like him... but provincially, i cant support the liberals... infact i bet cambell voted for harper... they are so alike... the liberal party in bc is actually a conservative party in alot of ways... the hst thing was the last straw... the just keep holing up freedom of information releases and when we finally get them even though they are half blacked out, we still see their lies popping up... like how they ran on a platform that was opposed to hst, they get elected and two months into it they start the hst process without any public participation whatsoever... they just forced it thru... now not only do we have the papers that show it was on their radar, but they also listed alot of the valid issues the opposition has but defended while forcing it thru... rediculously transparent and people are not pleased...

David Jamieson
09-20-2010, 05:27 PM
I figure the HST is a lame attempt at gaining political points for dumping the gst...on paper. wait and see.

If by some grace of Satan the Cons remain in power on whatever level, they will use the HST in BC, ON, (and QC eventually, where taxes are different already), to prop up getting rid of the GST in the have not provinces and will win huge tracts of geography in the parliamentary seats with their bogus saviour position.

Knowing full well that Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, the Yukon T, Northwest T, Nunavit, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I make up only about 1/4 of the entire Country population wise(i think im being generous there too). But it's 6 of 9 provinces and all the territories combined as far as seats in the house go.

I bet 5% that's exactly how the thinking is on it. lol

Syn7
09-20-2010, 05:38 PM
word...

hst didnt go down the same in bc as it did in ontario tho... its a huge deal here... there is a strong possiboility that many liberals will be recalled in the next few months if they dont cave on this one... the petityions are signed and submitted... we have the numbers on paper, its already been to supreme court and handed back as a legit petition... the monentum is huge... they have well over 50% of voter signatures in almost every liberal riding... they must be ****ting br!cks right now... some lowly liberal must be fearing that they are gonna end up paying the price for the arrogance of their bosses...

and the whole BC rail thing... i find it hard to believe that the premier isnt all caught up in that personally... you kniw he'll be on their board within the next 10 years... if not them, then some other crown corp. he sold to his private buddies... its just disgusting what he's getting away with... a true testament to the short memories, pure ignorance and general apathy of the general public... by the time they even notice, its too late...

we all suck!!! :D

David Jamieson
09-21-2010, 07:32 AM
I think if BC can sink the HST, then it will leave Harper in a lurch.

This oligarchy of ours needs some shaking up anyway.

Syn7
09-21-2010, 07:12 PM
new news on hst... the recal campaign is in full swing... this is actually pretty exited... a mass provincial recall, shake everyone up a bit... i love it... accountabi;lity will take on a whole new meaning after this...

the bad news is we will take a massive hit to change it back... couple billion i think... plus we'd have to give back the federal incentive grant we already spent on things like pingpong arenas and retractable dome roof...

this is really happening... if the dont call a binding referendum by november, fighHST has the numbers, and the paperwork is done, submitted, been to court and back... they are ready and their leader is experienced... albiet somewhat of a douchbag, but what politician isnt, yaknow! but this is going to happen and these people are going to account for their actions, one way or another... this is some seriously unprecendented sh!t we have right here... love it... its new and grimey, how politics should be... as opposed to shady and deceitful... pure honesty is terrifying for the large majority...

theres a quick article here http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/PDF/2007/10/10/daily092110web.pdf front page...



Taking their cue from a popular reality TV show, opponents of B.C.’s harmonized sales tax yesterday announced a campaign that will help them determine which MLAs to target for recall.

FightHST has selected 18 ridings for their “MLA Survivor Recall” campaign. Included on the list are the constituencies of Finance Minister Colin Hansen and cabinet ministers Ida Chong, Bill Bennett and Steve Thomson.

Each riding will have until the middle of November to sign up as many canvassers as possible.

The top three ridings in the campaign will be the first targeted for recall in the New Year.