SPM sparring wing chun

[Frost]

would people consider this a good example of SPM in action?

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=TMP20VVJk94&feature=related

[Syn7]

lol... looks like an grade school girly slap fight... real scary...


these cats wouldnt last 5 seconds in a real fight with somebody whos actually fought before, trained or not... a 9th grade schoolyard thug could dummy on both of em at once...

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Tai Ji Peng = End of slappy hands.

I see no peng here... no peng intended.

[hskwarrior]

girly slap fight

one of them is a girl hahahahaha

[Violent Designs]

This is why Chinese martial arts are dying. This type of teaching/training is like a cancer to our wu gung.

[hskwarrior]

if that was a show of someone with rank in that system, then my beginners will whip they're arses!!!!

[Syn7]

one of them is a girl hahahahaha

yeah but it dont mean she gotta fight like one in the second grade... esspecially with wing chun, given the legends...

[Syn7]

This is why Chinese martial arts are dying. This type of teaching/training is like a cancer to our wu gung.

and all the sheeple clapped as if they were witnessing some marvelous display of cunning prowess... bee-eye-itch please...:rolleyes:

[Faruq]

You ever have to spar with a chick and she like goes all out trying to take your head off, and you hold back because she's a girl, and you end up looking bad for having agreed to spar with her in the first place?.....

[Syn7]

You ever have to spar with a chick and she like goes all out trying to take your head off, and you hold back because she's a girl, and you end up looking bad for having agreed to spar with her in the first place?.....

nope................... you?

[Violent Designs]

and all the sheeple clapped as if they were witnessing some marvelous display of cunning prowess... bee-eye-itch please...:rolleyes:

As far as my research and understanding goes, most martial arts taught nowadays in Hong Kong (where I assume this is held? if not Guangdong) is of EXTREMELY SUBSTANDARD QUALITY.

I am just honored to be so fortunate that my Sifu, whom I respect very much, lives in my area.

Yuan Fen is a strange thing, isn't it? For years I've dedicated most of my time to training in the martial arts and it seems that fate has placed me in the path of a teacher who has finally opened his doors to me, teaching me as far as my dedication can go.

[jo]

No stances, no "body work" to generate ging, no "sink-swallow-float-spit", no shaping of the hands for different strikes......

- jo

[Frost]

You ever have to spar with a chick and she like goes all out trying to take your head off, and you hold back because she's a girl, and you end up looking bad for having agreed to spar with her in the first place?.....

lol he wasn't holding back, he was getting his a$s handed to him

yes i have sparred girls, yes you go softer with some and harder with others, but you dont look that cr^p

[sanjuro_ronin]

would people consider this a good example of SPM in action?

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=TMP20VVJk94&feature=related

They BOTH did everything that one could possibly do wrong in a fight, even more so a " short hand fight".
But they also did what we so far to often:
They over extended their hands, they tried to work they "jing" at the end and NOT the beginning as I mentioned before, they kept their chins up and even moved their head back because they were reluctant to get hit, which ironically is why they got hit more often than not.
The did not enter on the angle or even up the middle by "slapped" the moment they made contact with the each others "bridges", which didn't work because they were over extend to begin with.
The lacked intent, and while the hands had some speed, they sacrificed power for the speed, HOPEFULLY because it was only a demo exhibition.

In short, they showed all that a short hand fighter should NOT do.

[Jorge]

lol he wasn't holding back, he was getting his a$s handed to him

yes i have sparred girls, yes you go softer with some and harder with others, but you dont look that cr^p

I agree 100%! Unless their better fighters than you. I've helped females get ready for fights before and I never looked like that. LOLOL

[Jorge]

They BOTH did everything that one could possibly do wrong in a fight, even more so a " short hand fight".
But they also did what we so far to often:
They over extended their hands, they tried to work they "jing" at the end and NOT the beginning as I mentioned before, they kept their chins up and even moved their head back because they were reluctant to get hit, which ironically is why they got hit more often than not.
The did not enter on the angle or even up the middle by "slapped" the moment they made contact with the each others "bridges", which didn't work because they were over extend to begin with.
The lacked intent, and while the hands had some speed, they sacrificed power for the speed, HOPEFULLY because it was only a demo exhibition.

In short, they showed all that a short hand fighter should NOT do.


True that! You should be able to fa ging anywhere within the movement, but you have to practice hitting things otherwise your timing will always be off and you cant learn it from practicing your punches in the air.

[sanjuro_ronin]

True that! You should be able to fa ging anywhere within the movement, but you have to practice hitting things otherwise your timing will always be off and you cant learn it from practicing your punches in the air.

Most southern system are to busy dealing with bridges.

Know what boxers make for such pain in the ass for kung fu guys?
They show and present NO bridges.
That and from the very first day boxers are taught to HIT moving things that hit back.

[Frost]

Most southern system are to busy dealing with bridges.

Know what boxers make for such pain in the ass for kung fu guys?
They show and present NO bridges.
That and from the very first day boxers are taught to HIT moving things that hit back.

to be fair they are a pain in the ass for a lot of guys, we are all just lucky they are sports guys and dont know how to fight on the street :)

And to all the guys who say this sucks and is a bad representation of SPM, can you point me to some good clips?

[Violent Designs]

to be fair they are a pain in the ass for a lot of guys, we are all just lucky they are sports guys and dont know how to fight on the street :)

And to all the guys who say this sucks and is a bad representation of SPM, can you point me to some good clips?

remember, they don't wanna share their secret training videos.

[David Jamieson]

That appeared to be pointless.

[Sardinkahnikov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anm_5jZr8Ws&has_verified=1

0:50 -> what they do actually resembles what was going on in the first clip, lol

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Holy Cr ap Italian TV is fun to watch. :D

[Jorge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM0zbMCLiC4

Here goes a nice one. Its not Southern Mantis, its wing chun, but none the less the young gentleman sticks to his wing chun principles. He can only get better by having exchanges like this...Good for him!:)

[Syn7]

when i first started bjj i had my ass handed to me by a chica... she was good, is good... i made the typical wrestlers mistakes and served my neck on a platter to her time and time again... after repeatedly getting choked out i finally started catching on... she was cute too, big girl tho... not fat, just big, like 160 pounds 6 feet tall... she had height and weight on me... no excuses tho, she was just better than i was and i kept making the same mistakes... eventually we evened up tho... once i stopped trying to use more strength than technique, everyone started falling to my greatness :p

being small is an advantage in training coz most males will be in the 165 to 200 range... so i was always engaged in uphill battles... when i jumped into weight classes, i destroyed...

[Yum Cha]

Most southern system are to busy dealing with bridges.

Know what boxers make for such pain in the ass for kung fu guys?
They show and present NO bridges.
That and from the very first day boxers are taught to HIT moving things that hit back.

Would you be willing to agree they present no static bridges, and that the bridging opportunities they present are narrow and fleeting?

I think what is also relevant is that Boxers are best suited to fight what comes after the bridge.

They call short arm "Chinese Boxing" - I can see why.

Its the other stuff that makes for all the fun and games....:D

[Eric_H]

Thanks, that was the worst clip I've seen today.

[TenTigers]

Would you be willing to agree they present no static bridges, and that the bridging opportunities they present are narrow and fleeting?

I think what is also relevant is that Boxers are best suited to fight what comes after the bridge.

They call short arm "Chinese Boxing" - I can see why.

Its the other stuff that makes for all the fun and games....:D
I don't think anyone presents static bridges.
I think those are people who are trying to look so much like their style, that they forget the whole reason it was created.

[Syn7]

EDIT: my bad, got threads confused and left a message that is completely unrelated to this thread... :rolleyes: dum di dum dum

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/138/l_594923edd3574859bbd9cb8e54ffa4e5.gif

[Yum Cha]

I don't think anyone presents static bridges.
I think those are people who are trying to look so much like their style, that they forget the whole reason it was created.

Fair enough, but there are plenty of people that present them nevertheless. ;)

[goju]

the problem with arts with bridging to is people get so set on bridging they try to force it to happen instead of just slugging the guy and gettin it over with

its like a hook to the face is so un kung fuey you have to do this complex array of traps before you even think of punching:rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fair enough, but there are plenty of people that present them nevertheless. ;)

Because they spend MOST of their time training it like that.
What can one expect?

[TenTigers]

agree with Goju, Yummy, and Sanjuro-but let's not judge entire systems based on crap demonstrated by inferior practitioners.
I think that is the whole problem.
I think if people opened their minds and eyes a bit, they would seek out the people that are more qualified, rather than the ones who post the most vids on youtube.
Sure, I understand that if you can see a vid, it offers validation. That works. No argument here.
BUT-it does not automatically mean that if you didn't see it on a video on youtube, then it doesn't exist.
that, is just plain stupid.
After awhile, you realise that you simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with these people. It's a waste of time and energy.

[sanjuro_ronin]

agree with Goju, Yummy, and Sanjuro-but let's not judge entire systems based on crap demonstrated by inferior practitioners.
I think that is the whole problem.
I think if people opened their minds and eyes a bit, they would seek out the people that are more qualified, rather than the ones who post the most vids on youtube.
Sure, I understand that if you can see a vid, it offers validation. That works. No argument here.
BUT-it does not automatically mean that if you didn't see it on a video on youtube, then it doesn't exist.
that, is just plain stupid.
After awhile, you realise that you simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with these people. It's a waste of time and energy.

Outside of Paul Whitrods stuff ( advertising for his school and merchandise) and some clips of forms training, we don't really have much on SPM and that is too bad though.
But I know what people WANT to see, I just think that they will never see it because, well, it doesn't exist and what people want is a SHaw Brothers fight, Kung fu LOOKING like a Shaw brothers movie in a real fight.
It just doesn't work that way and never has.
Ever see those full contact clips of the Bak Mei guy with the tattoos, I forget his name...
They look like "kick boxing" and guess what, so will SPM in a full contact context.

[TenTigers]

I hear ya.
I never liked the choreography of those films. I never thought they were actually what Kung-Fu should look like. I especially can't stand the footwork hopping moments within the fights-very typical of Gordon Liu's scenes, or the snakey hand strikes. Frankly, I could never understand how so many people bought into any of that stuff.

It's entertainment, but that's it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i hear ya.
I never liked the choreography of those films. I never thought they were actually what kung-fu should look like. I especially can't stand the footwork hopping moments within the fights-very typical of gordon liu's scenes, or the snakey hand strikes. Frankly, i could never understand how so many people bought into any of that stuff.

It's entertainment, but that's it.

blasphemy !!!!!

[Jorge]

i hear ya.
I never liked the choreography of those films. I never thought they were actually what kung-fu should look like. I especially can't stand the footwork hopping moments within the fights-very typical of gordon liu's scenes, or the snakey hand strikes. Frankly, i could never understand how so many people bought into any of that stuff.

It's entertainment, but that's it.

nooooooooo!!!!!!!lolol

[MysteriousPower]

agree with Goju, Yummy, and Sanjuro-but let's not judge entire systems based on crap demonstrated by inferior practitioners.
I think that is the whole problem.
I think if people opened their minds and eyes a bit, they would seek out the people that are more qualified, rather than the ones who post the most vids on youtube.
Sure, I understand that if you can see a vid, it offers validation. That works. No argument here.
BUT-it does not automatically mean that if you didn't see it on a video on youtube, then it doesn't exist.
that, is just plain stupid.
After awhile, you realise that you simply cannot have an intelligent conversation with these people. It's a waste of time and energy.

Do you consider yourself a superior practitioner of spm? Because you sound like you want to come off as one or atleast as someone who has "seen" the goods. Every time a bad video is put up you defend it by saying that it does not reflect the whole of spm. Unfortunately no videos exist to show the goods so your argument on this point is...well it is pointless. If there were countless videos showing spm mantis people sparring then you could say this video was the rotten egg. Unfortunatkey there are only rotten eggs and until proven otherwise your argument has no legs...no matter how long you stand in horse stance.

[KC Elbows]

There's a bad tradition, pretty much, of showcasing martial arts by showing the move trained in stereotypical apps way, with set distance, etc.

Thus, lots of footage that does this.

What needs to happen is for people to simply refuse to make such videos or accept them anymore. App plus the move working in sparring is what we should consider the bare minimum demo vid to showcase what we do or judge what we see. We can't expect other kung fu people to do it for us, we need to start doing so, and support those who do, imo.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There's a bad tradition, pretty much, of showcasing martial arts by showing the move trained in stereotypical apps way, with set distance, etc.

Thus, lots of footage that does this.

What needs to happen is for people to simply refuse to make such videos or accept them anymore. App plus the move working in sparring is what we should consider the bare minimum demo vid to showcase what we do or judge what we see. We can't expect other kung fu people to do it for us, we need to start doing so, and support those who do, imo.

That is why I demo things on the bag or mitts.
You don't demo things sparring, all that shows is you fighting.

[KC Elbows]

That is why I demo things on the bag or mitts.
You don't demo things sparring, all that shows is you fighting.

I'm talking about filming enough sparring footage that you have a clip of the move occuring live, then using just the clip. If one can't get that clip, it seems like a bag or mitt version might come off as pure theory. Extra mile and all. I'll have to think about your point, though.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm talking about filming enough sparring footage that you have a clip of the move occuring live, then using just the clip. If one can't get that clip, it seems like a bag or mitt version might come off as pure theory. Extra mile and all. I'll have to think about your point, though.

Somethings you can show and SHOULD be showed sparring, namely fighting.
But if you are gonna demo a jing or something like that, something that you can't really see in a fast moving clip, then fighting clips are not the best ways to go.
Unless you can slo-mo them of course.

[TenTigers]

Do you consider yourself a superior practitioner of spm? Because you sound like you want to come off as one or atleast as someone who has "seen" the goods. Every time a bad video is put up you defend it by saying that it does not reflect the whole of spm. Unfortunately no videos exist to show the goods so your argument on this point is...well it is pointless. If there were countless videos showing spm mantis people sparring then you could say this video was the rotten egg. Unfortunatkey there are only rotten eggs and until proven otherwise your argument has no legs...no matter how long you stand in horse stance.
no, but I play one on TV...
I am cerainly not a superior practitioner of SPM, in fact, I have only been doing it for a few years, so I consider myself still a neophyte, however, I have seen, and felt "the goods," as you say, so I feel I can comment with good authority.
Your point about my point being pointless (are you following this?;-)is pointless.
There does not need to be other videos to justify my comment.
If you say Chocolate ice cream sucks, because you have only had a taste of Good Humor Chocolate Ice cream, and I tell you that there are other versions of chocolate that are far superior, just because YOU have not tasted them, does not negate my statement.
What it DOES show is your ignorance on the subject, lack of experience, and lack of exposure. The fact that you are so outspoken makes you arrogant as well as ignorant and closed-minded.
(sigh) why do I even bother...

[KC Elbows]

(sigh) why do I even bother...

Because without the drama, the interweb would evaporate?

[TenTigers]

when you argue with an idiot,
it just brings you down to his level
where he beats you with experience.

[Faruq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM0zbMCLiC4

Here goes a nice one. Its not Southern Mantis, its wing chun, but none the less the young gentleman sticks to his wing chun principles. He can only get better by having exchanges like this...Good for him!:)

This is an old clip, but this is the only clip I've ever seen where the Wing Chun guy actually uses anything resembling Wing Chun to spar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXg0FFREzcg&feature=related

If anyone knows who the guy is, please feel free to say who he is and what his lineage is.

[Violent Designs]

This is an old clip, but this is the only clip I've ever seen where the Wing Chun guy actually uses anything resembling Wing Chun to spar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXg0FFREzcg&feature=related

If anyone knows who the guy is, please feel free to say who he is and what his lineage is.

Yep this is *STILL* the only clip I can recall that actually has one guy using a "Wing Chun framework."

Why hasn't he posted more videos? I wonder....

[MysteriousPower]

no, but I play one on TV...
I am cerainly not a superior practitioner of SPM, in fact, I have only been doing it for a few years, so I consider myself still a neophyte, however, I have seen, and felt "the goods," as you say, so I feel I can comment with good authority.
Your point about my point being pointless (are you following this?;-)is pointless.
There does not need to be other videos to justify my comment.
If you say Chocolate ice cream sucks, because you have only had a taste of Good Humor Chocolate Ice cream, and I tell you that there are other versions of chocolate that are far superior, just because YOU have not tasted them, does not negate my statement.
What it DOES show is your ignorance on the subject, lack of experience, and lack of exposure. The fact that you are so outspoken makes you arrogant as well as ignorant and closed-minded.
(sigh) why do I even bother...


So if you have seen and felt the goods...have your teacher put up a video of himself sparring with someone. I understand he might be old so put up a video of him sparring with you somewhat hard but in a friendly match. Show us what the goods ACTUALLY look like...or stfu about real qualified teachers out there. Seriously. Show us quality spm sparring against a resisting opponent. Your teacher should be able to deliver the goods since he is the real deal.

Unless he is too deadly to spar...or "he does not have anything to prove." :)

You have a chance to prove that Elvis is still alive. Are you going to step up to the plate or are you insecure that you have not seen the goods?

[Jorge]

Yep this is *STILL* the only clip I can recall that actually has one guy using a "Wing Chun framework."

Why hasn't he posted more videos? I wonder....


Yeah, this clip is much better then the one I posted, its been a minute since I've seen it. Nice find Faruq!

Bless

[Sardinkahnikov]

This is an old clip, but this is the only clip I've ever seen where the Wing Chun guy actually uses anything resembling Wing Chun to spar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXg0FFREzcg&feature=related

If anyone knows who the guy is, please feel free to say who he is and what his lineage is.

it LOOKS like Emin Boztepe's stuff.

[Faruq]

it LOOKS like Emin Boztepe's stuff.

Funny, to me it looks like Steve Lee Swift's, lol. But either way, why is this guy in this video the only one on the whole internet who can use a Wing Chun framework and make it work for himself? And he's a gwai lo for crissakes! lol.

[David Jamieson]

he is using it correctly.

also, brown shirt was telegraphing. a lot. so wing chun could read him easy.

brown shirt also was fail at going for reasonable kicks and seemed to pull them.
brown shirt had no punching or entering ability.

wing chun went easy, but didn't pull anything.

that's what i saw anyway.

[Faruq]

Well, I won't belabor this point anymore after this, but if what you're saying is correct Jamieson I've still got to think that at least 50% of the Wing Chun sparring clips out there have the Wing Chun guy taking on a less skilled opponent. So why is this the only clip on the net of a Wing Chun guy using textbook Wing Chun and having the Wing Chun framework work for him if even against an easy opponent? Even if only 20% of the clips are against easy opponents, this is the only clip I've ever come across like this. I'm completely baffled. Maybe it's just me...

[Knifefighter]

Yep this is *STILL* the only clip I can recall that actually has one guy using a "Wing Chun framework."

Why hasn't he posted more videos? I wonder....

Because he can only do that against an opponent who is very, very inexperienced.

[Knifefighter]

Yeah, this clip is much better then the one I posted, its been a minute since I've seen it. Nice find Faruq!

Bless

The one you posted is what WC will look like against a more skilled opponent.

[Knifefighter]

BTW, that chick rocked... at least in the realm of a slapfight.

[Violent Designs]

Because he can only do that against an opponent who is very, very inexperienced.

Although I actually agree with you, this is still a conjecture, not fact.

But inductively speaking yes, you are probably right.

[Hardwork108]

Here is one with a Wing Tsun guy against a karate guy, in a full contact fight. This also is an old clip and it has been posted here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ3-Hi-kMNo&feature=related

[sanjuro_ronin]

The horror of it all....

[Violent Designs]

The horror of it all....

How the hell do you have so many posts.....

no lifer :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

How the hell do you have so many posts.....

no lifer :rolleyes:

I don't spell check !
LMAO !