new instructional dvd

[teetsao]

i know most on here already have their own training regime, but we are offering this,with things never before out in the public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qb9RsEYDao

[mooyingmantis]

What is the price?

[teetsao]

45.00 shipping included to anywhere in the u.s.a.

i promise you anyone who buys this will not be dissapointed. there is alot of real good material on this dvd. we even give the begining levels of vibrating palm. not what brian gray calls vibrating palm either, the real vibrating palm.
we also include 3 i.p. specific jow recipes and advanced i.p. training along with some specialty training.

[Violent Designs]

what is vibrating palm?

[Lucas]

must...resist....lewd...comment...

[Yum Cha]

must...resist....lewd...comment...

Yea, there's a lot of Vibrating Palm on the internet....

[Shaolin]

What "things" never before seen? If someone is interested how do they purchase it? I don't see and e-mail contact, website or mailing address. I'm going to be straight forward you guys are doing a lousy job marketing your product. I don't say this to be mean I say this to motivate you to sell your product.

[teetsao]

its not ready yet,thats why not much marketing as of yet. it will be ready on fri. you can check out, www.theironlotussociety.com
this is where oyu will be able to purchase it.
vibrating palm???
if you have to ask what it is................

[Shaolin]

The video not being ready until Friday is a poor excuse for poor marketing. You should be having a pre-sale at a discounted rate or throw in some sort of freebee to the first x amount of buyers. Build the hype, let the public know you have this new and improved whatever and they can't live without it.

Even though some of the readers here are going to make jokes about what vibrating palm it's still a good question, which should be explained in the advertisements. The reason it needs to be explained is because:
1. it sounds made up or taken from a 70's kung fu flick
2. not everyone of your potential customers has the knowledge about your system that you do, and without product knowledge why should anyone buy your video? especially since they could probably learn it on youtube.com for free

[Violent Designs]

its not ready yet,thats why not much marketing as of yet. it will be ready on fri. you can check out, www.theironlotussociety.com
this is where oyu will be able to purchase it.
vibrating palm???
if you have to ask what it is................

ok, you can keep your secret, just an honest question.

I don't know all these english translations for classical Chinese techniques or methods. :rolleyes:

[Dale Dugas]

Rod,

Congratulations on getting your DVD finished.

I look forward to it!

[Dragonzbane76]

Yea, there's a lot of Vibrating Palm on the internet....

a lot of hairy palm as well. ;)

[EarthDragon]

just curious if you think ppl should or would be able to learn IP from a DVD? arent you concerned about ppl damaging themselves when practicing incorrectly?
just curious also why you mocked Brain Grey?

I mean i know its the year 2010 adn you can get your BB online if your lazy but videos to teach IP???? im a little concerned. Im afraid of ppl buying this DVD and claiming they are IP guys and teaching thier friends and so on and so on

[IronWeasel]

just curious also why you mocked Brain Grey?




I'm curious why anyone would NOT mock Brian Grey....

[Joe Mantis]

Teet,

I'll still review your book if you want. Just crushed that you didn't ask me to do the DVD. Still unemployed and just waiting to review kung fu material. :)

[SoCo KungFu]

just curious if you think ppl should or would be able to learn IP from a DVD? arent you concerned about ppl damaging themselves when practicing incorrectly?
just curious also why you mocked Brain Grey?

I mean i know its the year 2010 adn you can get your BB online if your lazy but videos to teach IP???? im a little concerned. Im afraid of ppl buying this DVD and claiming they are IP guys and teaching thier friends and so on and so on

You guys really need to get over these mythological fears from 500 years dead illiterate farmers....


Bone continues to grow and renew itself throughout life. The continual deposition of new bone tissue and the removal (resorption) of old bone tissue is called bone remodeling. Bone remodeling helps maintain calcium and phosphate levels in body fluids, and can be stimulated by stress on the bone (e.g., bone fracture, or exercise that builds up muscles that attach to bone). This ongoing process occurs at both the periosteal and endosteal surfaces of a bone. It either modifies the architecture of the bone or changes the total amount of minerals deposited in the skeleton.....
.....It is estimated that about 20% of the adult human skeleton is replaced yearly.
(Continued in further text)
Mechanical stress, in the form of exercise, is required for normal bone remodeling. In response to mechanical stress, bone has the ability to increase its strength over a period of time by increasing the amounts of mineral salts deposited and collagen fibers synthesized. Stress also increases the production of the hormone calcitonin, which helps inhibit bone resorption by osteoclasts and encourage bone deposition by osteoblasts.
Mechanical stresses that significantly affect bone result from repeated skeletal muscle contraction and gravitational forces. Typically, the bones of athletes become noticeably thicker as a result of repetitive and stressful exercise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff%27s_law

[teetsao]

wow, you guys werent this hard on "mcgrath" and all he did was have an old i.p. book translated,that you can get for free on the net and is charging almost 200.00 for it.
joe mantis, yes you will get a copy of the book to reveiw,you know what oyu will get a copy of the dvd also,because yoou asked nicley.

earthdragon; if you have background in any martial art it is easy to learn i.p. from a video. when my teacher gave me the training he only gave it to me once as i live 3 hours from him and visit once a month,then when i needed updating he would add to it, it isnt rocket surgery,it is a conditioning exercise,however we do have different things we do to get very good and very fast results,as i think i have demonstrated. so yes,"you people" if you need to can learn i.p. from our video.

violent designs, didnt mean to be offensive,just thought most people had heard of vibrating palm. i will find the chinese transliteration for it and post it. it is one of the top levels of poison hand. earl montaigue describes it in his book as such,"the vibrating palm is probably one of themost difficult of all weapons to learn.First you must have complete relaxation inb your arm and palm.When oyu strike the power is so great that it causes a ripple to move down into the palm which "vibrates" violently upon impact sending energy through the body" the method was given to us by dr. "John" Winglok Ng. it realyl isnt hard to learn and we give the first step into acheiving it.
my teacher wrote the first article on it in print,i have it but do not know how to post it,if someone will help me i will post it on here.

shaolin; no you cant learn it on youtube. we do have some things planned,but i already promised some giveaways for prople who contacted me over a month ago wanting to know when it was going to be out,so i cant give them all away.
this is not a gimmick dvd,"mcgrath": is in charge of that on here.
this is real training that will allow you to gain a real skill. the dvd is extremely reasonable,especially if you compare it to others dvd prices and the amount of material offered on our dvd, i assure you ,anyone who purchases this will get their moneys worth and then some.

[teetsao]

here is the article my teacher wrote on the vibrating palm.

http://site.theironlotussociety.com/uploads/VibrationPalm.pdf

[SoCo KungFu]

wow, you guys werent this hard on "mcgrath" and all he did was have an old i.p. book translated,that you can get for free on the net and is charging almost 200.00 for it.


sigh.....apparently quoting scientific medical text only gains attention when from TGY....

[teetsao]

no i thought your post was very informative.
however i would like to see a study done on repetative stress,such as hand conditioninig to see how much stronger the bones get and how long it lasts. this thread originally started off as a "i dont know how to market my product" response though so i kinda overlooked your post at first.

[SoCo KungFu]

no i thought your post was very informative.
however i would like to see a study done on repetative stress,such as hand conditioninig to see how much stronger the bones get and how long it lasts. this thread originally started off as a "i dont know how to market my product" response though so i kinda overlooked your post at first.

Look up stuff on runners. That's probably the closest thing you'll find in terms of relating to IP. Degeneration will probably have more info out there. All kinds of stuff from medical conditions to loss of bone density for astronauts in zero g space. Or you could just coax TGY into a response since this is probably right up his alley. I'd kinda like to look that up myself, but I'm in the middle of exam prep right now so no time really. I shouldn't even be here :p

Google has a search engine function that filters all but academic text. I usually use things like infotrac myself but I get that through the uni, don't know if you can just up and access that engine though.

[Drake]

Fix the typos and drop the Jesus stuff. You are either trying to do business or convert. You can't do both.

[Eric Hunstad]

You can definitely injure yourself if you do IP incorrectly. I know because I've been there and done that. It wasn't my skeletal system that was damaged, however, it was my nervous system.

Long story short- I was too aggressive too soon and also altered my training to delete the "needless qigong exercises". I developed symptoms of anxiety, heart palpitations, tremors in both hands (not just striking hand), constipation, and insomnia. None of which I have ever had before or since.

I was so concerned I had to go to a medical doctor who was no help. However, I went to an acupuncturist, and she nailed it immediately. TCM has a model which describes this exact scenario, and when I did when did just what TCM said to do, all symptoms went away and never returned. I know, I know...."placebo effect".

Sometimes those 500 year old illiterate farmers do know what they're talking about.....

Eric Hunstad
www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

[teetsao]

thanx guys for all of the feedback. i hope someone gets some good from our first in a series of videos.

drake. sorry about the typos,sometimes we do things on the haul and it gets overlooked. we will never drop the "jesus stuff" we are real christians and real men and we are not ashamed of the gospil of jesus christ and we spread the word whenever we get the chance,sorry if you dont like it,you will miss out on alot of good info on kung fu because you dont want to hear us talk about christ for a sec.

eric; sorry to hear you had probs. you should not have jumped ahead,at least you admit it was your fault and you took steps to correct it.
we cover all things to keep you safe and healthy in the video, none of us in the i.l.s. has ever had more than just minor injuries,like bruises or jammed finger,just from overzealousness,so if someone deviates themselves from the proper training it is on them.

so co kung fu; thanx again for the info.

[Shima Wara]

Wow there are a lot of people with a lot to say on this issue. Here are the bottom lines folks.

1. Our breaking skills are legitimate and known by many. This DVD is highly sought after as we have proven time and time again we know what we are doing. If people injure themselves it is because they do the OPPOSITE of what they should be doing.

2. Actually, we can give credit to our Lord and spread Iron Palm knowledge at the same time. No one has to convert to learn iron palm or vibrating palm, but we like to give people the option if they feel they need that kind of support in their life.

3. We are not attempting to build a multi million dollar business, we are simply attempting to put the things out there that made us successful and help those who need help.

4. Everyone simply relax and if you're happy with your I.P. regimen then continue doing it by all means. We are happy that you found something that works for you. If you find yourself at a plateau, then please purchase our material and break the plateau.

5. Repeated stress on muscles and bones builds them properly if not overdone. Weightlifting is a prime example of this kind of natural conditioning. As long as the I.P. practitioner uses the liniment and follows proper safety procedures, then they will most likely not have as much trouble as someone who does not do those things.

6. If you do not like our stuff, then we encourage you to make your own and attempt to sell it as well. However, we will openly issue a breaking challenge(face to face) with any who are willing to participate for fun and a little competition. The proof is in the doing, and we have done plenty in this realm. We have a large support base that has asked and asked about the DVD for months. Believe me it will have a positive reception.

7. Typos are a part of a self sustained website. We have jobs, families, and lives outside of the website and iron palm. We cannot be 100% on every typo or error out there when entering information. So..... just get over it i guess:)

8. Either support us or don't. We honestly don't care. We're just putting our info out there.

[Syn7]

thanx guys for all of the feedback. i hope someone gets some good from our first in a series of videos.

drake. sorry about the typos,sometimes we do things on the haul and it gets overlooked. we will never drop the "jesus stuff" we are real christians and real men and we are not ashamed of the gospil of jesus christ and we spread the word whenever we get the chance,sorry if you dont like it,you will miss out on alot of good info on kung fu because you dont want to hear us talk about christ for a sec.

yeah but dont you see that as an argument for keeping the two seperate??? its hypocritical for people to call it looney tho, since cma, jma etc etc are all wrapped up in their respective philosophies and religions... its no different... aside from the natural theory that ties in to their religiopus beliefs and are pertaining to their training aswell... like chi... but you can find christian words to describe the same things if you wanted to... esspecially pre dark ages european chritianity... lots of esoteric dudes back then...

to what degree do you include your faith??? lords prayers before and after? and do you actually do bible study???

[teetsao]

we include our faith daily in our taining at home. yes we do bible study,all of us,i will admit they do more than me as of late.
on the dvd we just make our statement of faith,we do not preach as we are not preachers,it only takes a min. at the end of the dvd and does not interfere with any of the training described.
and as you said,we could keep it seperate,but we choose not to. we do not force anything on anyone,we make our statment of faith then on to the training.
this reminds me,can anyone tell me who christ said this to??

"I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith."

i am not asking this because i dont know,i want whoever looks it up to look at it for what it is and who he was.

[Syn7]

so when cats come to class you do kung fu then sit in a circle and discuss passages? or what??? just curious, no disrespect intended, not my thing but i dont grudge you in doing whatever makes you happy...

[Drake]

Dude...you can worship the great bunny for all I care. I was giving you sound advice that it DOESN'T belong on your business page. It doesn't sound like faith. It sounds like bragging. Take it as constructive criticism and not get defensive. Geez.

[Drake]

we include our faith daily in our taining at home. yes we do bible study,all of us,i will admit they do more than me as of late.
on the dvd we just make our statement of faith,we do not preach as we are not preachers,it only takes a min. at the end of the dvd and does not interfere with any of the training described.
and as you said,we could keep it seperate,but we choose not to. we do not force anything on anyone,we make our statment of faith then on to the training.
this reminds me,can anyone tell me who christ said this to??

"I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith."

i am not asking this because i dont know,i want whoever looks it up to look at it for what it is and who he was.

I don't care who Jeebus said it to. People want products, not a profession of religious fervor.

[Syn7]

People want products, not a profession of religious fervor.

ok but what about when its taoist or buddhist??? we seee that all the time mixed in with tcma... whats the diff???

just playing devils advocate here, i prefer jeebus be kept seperate... esspecially since im not a christian...

[Drake]

ok but what about when its taoist or buddhist??? we seee that all the time mixed in with tcma... whats the diff???

just playing devils advocate here, i prefer jeebus be kept seperate... esspecially since im not a christian...

Same thing, only there it seems more like a marketing ploy.

[Shima Wara]

Syn7 - You are entitled to keep those items separate if you wish to and I appreciate your understanding that our faith is very important to us and we believe, for us, it is inseparable from our success. We would be remiss if we did not share that with others and let them decide for themselves. We simply wish to give the whole of what we believe contributed to our success and give credit where we believe credit is due. People can still train the techniques given without any switch or change in religious beliefs, but we wish to make that available to those who might need it. Thank you for understanding.

Drake - Once again, we are NOT a business focused group. We are a kung fu and ministry focused group. Simply because we offer products does not mean we have to subscribe to the everyday business acumen of a major seller. We choose to include those things in with our products because we do not seek to honor ourselves, but our Lord who gives us strength. Asking me to take down the name of Jesus simply because you believe that some people are not comfortable with it is not even close to a good enough reason as we are not ashamed of what we believe and will not betray our faith or stop preaching it because it makes us unpopular. Once again, it is OUR product and we may do as we wish with it. We are not seeking advice, simply to inform others that it is available.

P.S. - The taoists, buddhists, and hinduists that you no doubt idolize in the kung fu world are teaching people how to receive spiritual posession in order to increase their abilities. Go and tell them you want their religious practice out of the arts. Go and tell BaGua pracititioners to stop circle walking, as this was formed from a religious practice of taoist prayer. Go tell Yoga practitioners to stop trying to open their Chakras as this is religious practice. Otherwise, simply leave it alone, this affects you in no way and we have made it clear what we are willing to do and not do in regards to the advice people give us. It sounds like you are the one getting defensive at the mention of Jesus, so just take the info or don't, our stance will not change. What you are doing now is bordering persecution, not constructive criticism.

[teetsao]

syn7, anytime we are together we discuss our faith and beleifs,especially while training. none of us teach classes. our teacher is a christain minister,Ricky Pickens, so naturally it comes up. i also train local at a kali,jiu jitsu class,that however is another story. i dont sit around talking much,i train,but if someone asks me i would tell them. i think most there know me,and funny thing one of the teachers there is a local hospital minister.

drake; it is cool i dont take offense in anything you have stated. we just have our way of doing things and it works very well,so we will stay as we are.

[Eric Hunstad]

Teet

I posted my experience simply to state IP can be done incorrectly and cause some problems. Everyone was thinking "skeletal" and I havent ever seen any major problems in that area. I did not intend to imply that you should not have put out this info. I have no doubt, based on your postings and site, that you are competent and responsible, and I applaud your contribution to TCMA.

I openly admit it was my error which led to the problems. I was young (20 or so years ago) and like many young people, overconfident and overeager. But it the long run, it actually helped me- one can learn a great deal through their mistakes.

Eric Hunstad
www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

[EarthDragon]

teet,

earthdragon; if you have background in any martial art it is easy to learn i.p. from a video. we do have different things we do to get very good and very fast results,as i think i have demonstrated. so yes,"you people" if you need to can learn i.p. from our video.

LOl this is funny statement, but yes I have a little backgound in MA 30 years only, and 13 in IP and its not easy to learn proper palm training and there is NO VERY FAST method to training the hand properly..... is this this how you learned? you bought a DVD at the book store? no you said you had a teacher... this is my point...... its videos like this that are the problem, I dont blame you for tryin to make a buck however YOU CANT LEARN IP OR MA PROPERLY FROM A DVD! you can learn about itas history, see it done but proper trainign cannot be supervised when you get a bunch of PPl damagining themselves due to incorrect training as many people have done. Have a lawyer on retainer because and you cannot be there to show them how and what they are doing wrong or when they begin to see calouses contusions, liver, spleen and eye damge.

Silly white Americans they want to take 4,000 years of culture and do it in 6 months because they have a faster way out on DVD's

whats the world on MA coming to?

I do accupuntcure and medical qigong perhaps I should put out a Video that show how to insert needles into your freinds and family for 19.99!

not to sound like a jerk its just a bad idea there are better way to make a buck then to allow this daming to happen.
I would love to fight a guy who learned vibrating palm in 6 months from a video! LOL

[SoCo KungFu]

teet,


LOl this is funny statement, but yes I have a little backgound in MA 30 years only, and 13 in IP and its not easy to learn proper palm training and there is NO VERY FAST method to training the hand properly..... is this this how you learned? you bought a DVD at the book store? no you said you had a teacher... this is my point...... its videos like this that are the problem, I dont blame you for tryin to make a buck however YOU CANT LEARN IP OR MA PROPERLY FROM A DVD! you can learn about itas history, see it done but proper trainign cannot be supervised when you get a bunch of PPl damagining themselves due to incorrect training as many people have done. Have a lawyer on retainer because and you cannot be there to show them how and what they are doing wrong or when they begin to see calouses contusions, liver, spleen and eye damge.

Silly white Americans they want to take 4,000 years of culture and do it in 6 months because they have a faster way out on DVD's

whats the world on MA coming to?

I do accupuntcure and medical qigong perhaps I should put out a Video that show how to insert needles into your freinds and family for 19.99!

not to sound like a jerk its just a bad idea there are better way to make a buck then to allow this daming to happen.
I would love to fight a guy who learned vibrating palm in 6 months from a video! LOL

Callouses are normal developments from repeatedly stressing superficial body tissue. Contusions are common with all ranges of blunt trauma, which striking a surface is. Good luck proving to any sane jury or judge that ***** slapping some bean bags caused liver failure....blindness? So you mean losing your eyesight over the course of say 10-15 years is all on bad IP and has absolutely nothing to do with the normal effects of aging....and your sample for this study was? What about all these blind people cutting me off in traffic did they do IP too? I guess I shouldn't honk at grandma anymore she might cold clock me.

And hey why not? I learned how to do IV's in a couple hours so meh....inserting a needle isn't hard. Crack heads do it all the time. Anatomy is hard...

[Syn7]

Callouses are normal developments from repeatedly stressing superficial body tissue. Contusions are common with all ranges of blunt trauma, which striking a surface is. Good luck proving to any sane jury or judge that ***** slapping some bean bags caused liver failure....blindness? So you mean losing your eyesight over the course of say 10-15 years is all on bad IP and has absolutely nothing to do with the normal effects of aging....and your sample for this study was? What about all these blind people cutting me off in traffic did they do IP too? I guess I shouldn't honk at grandma anymore she might cold clock me.

And hey why not? I learned how to do IV's in a couple hours so meh....inserting a needle isn't hard. Crack heads do it all the time. Anatomy is hard...

crackheads dont use needles....

anyways, IV drug addicts absolutely destroy the veins they tap because of their lack of knowledge and the fact that they dont rotate the sites like a nurse would with a longer term IV in a hospital or whatever.... i saw a guy who had his arm amputated because he collapsed a major vein and basically killed his arm... basically if you see a track mark over time, theyre doing it wrong...

[sanjuro_ronin]

SoCo is quote correct in the info he posted.
In the years I have done IP I have monitored it via x-rays and spoken to doctors about it, His link in regards to the anatomical changes is spot on and verifiable.
His mention of runner is also correct and is an analogy that I use many times:
Take a bare footed runner and a runner that uses shoes, x-ray their feet and shin bones and you can see the difference.
I have seen the IP DVD's from 3 different sources and have not found anything wrong or "dangerous" in them.
I have seen people screw up their training UNDER the instruction of a "master", I have seen people do great under video.
It seems that at times, when the responsibility is on US, we tend to be smarter and follow the instructions better.
Of course, some people will always screw things up with the ?more is better" view of things, whether by direct or indirect instruction.

Its a "feel" thing, IP is, and your teacher can't FEEL it for you, in the end, it is up to you.

Rodney,
Let me know when it is ready, I would love to get it for my EXTENSIVE MA library :)

[KC Elbows]

Always bragging about the size of his library.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Always bragging about the size of his library.

Yep:
http://images.clubzone.com/images/upload/1(200).jpg

[EarthDragon]

Callouses are normal developments from repeatedly stressing superficial body tissue. Contusions are common with all ranges of blunt trauma, which striking a surface is. Good luck proving to any sane jury or judge that ***** slapping some bean bags caused liver failure....blindness? So you mean losing your eyesight over the course of say 10-15 years is all on bad IP and has absolutely nothing to do with the normal effects of aging....and your sample for this study was? What about all these blind people cutting me off in traffic did they do IP too? I guess I shouldn't honk at grandma anymore she might cold clock me.

And hey why not? I learned how to do IV's in a couple hours so meh....inserting a needle isn't hard. Crack heads do it all the time. Anatomy is hard...

if you train your IP hand properly you DO NOT develop callouses.

Contusions should not be the result of IP training.

slapping some bean bags is your idea of IP training?

Does your video explian the function of the luo gong, mingmen, fu zhong shin? all points that need to be properly trained to move the qi to the neccesary points in the palm?

improper training damages the nerve endings in the fingertips which are connected to the meridians of the body which then connect to the internal organs. any basic IP person knows this. And you cant understand that from a DVD

If you are looking to get your law degree from a crackerjack box then you can go ahead and practice law, just dont advertise and try to sell your product to ppl on the internet who know better.
You can buy DVD to learn MA and become a BB but we all know how that is viewed :rolleyes:

next you will say that you are willing to sell your jow recipe on the internet LMAO. And if you are seling your recipe than i can assure you its missing some ingredients. I have a 350 year old bone and skin recipe that has been handed down in our system forever do you think if I massed produced it and sold it for 20 bucks to any tom dikc and harry I would include all the REAL ingredients? Come on lets be honest with each other why not ask famous amous for his cookie recipe you migth have a better chance at that.

[Syn7]

to take the anology further with the IV thang... you can learn all the appropriate injection sites and proper handling reletively quickly(not in an hour tho) but it takes alot of experience to be good at it...

who here hasnt been butchered at the lab clinic??? when you get somebody whos really good at it, you notice and its much appreciated...

that carries over intl MA forsure... you can learn to punch in minutes, but it takes alot of practice to have a great punch...

yeah, im against dvd instruction... its ok as a training aid, a record of progression or as a permenent record... but thats it really... to learn from scratch off a dvd is rediculous... sure you could learn some things and even learn them properly sometimes, but the odds are against you and its much more likely that you'll do things wrong and possibly even hurt yourself or somebody else in the process...

[Syn7]

yeah but famous amous doesnt put out a bogus cookie to throw competition off... lol

if you wanna keep something secret then obviously you dont sell it... but if you do sell it, you should sell the real thing or nobody will buy it coz it wont work... or not many people will buy it coz it doesnt do much... yaknowhutimsayin???

[bawang]

wite ppls hav noe honor

[sanjuro_ronin]

to take the anology further with the IV thang... you can learn all the appropriate injection sites and proper handling reletively quickly(not in an hour tho) but it takes alot of experience to be good at it...

who here hasnt been butchered at the lab clinic??? when you get somebody whos really good at it, you notice and its much appreciated...

that carries over intl MA forsure... you can learn to punch in minutes, but it takes alot of practice to have a great punch...

yeah, im against dvd instruction... its ok as a training aid, a record of progression or as a permenent record... but thats it really... to learn from scratch off a dvd is rediculous... sure you could learn some things and even learn them properly sometimes, but the odds are against you and its much more likely that you'll do things wrong and possibly even hurt yourself or somebody else in the process...

Do you think you can learn to play darts from a instructiona video?
How about Chess?
How about learning how to run or jump?
How about learning how to lift a brabell?
How about how to use a hammer? or a drill ?
How about how to throw a curve ball or a fast ball?
Etc, etc
Context.

[hskwarrior]

drake. sorry about the typos,sometimes we do things on the haul and it gets overlooked. we will never drop the "jesus stuff" we are real christians and real men and we are not ashamed of the gospil of jesus christ and we spread the word whenever we get the chance,sorry if you dont like it,you will miss out on alot of good info on kung fu because you dont want to hear us talk about christ for a sec.

forgive my ignorance, but what does Jesus have to do with gung fu?

[teetsao]

first off thanx for the support to everyone who supports us.

earthdragon;yes you can learn i.p. from video. it is a conditioning skill. now granted oyu may not learn to be able to use it properly,but this goes with do oyu have m.a. training,and i take it most that get the dvd weill have some type of m.a. training. it sounds like oyu have extensive knowledge in t.c.m.a. so the dvd would not be applicable to you.
funny you mention it about the laogong,bai hui,dantian and yongchuan, as we cover all of this and maybe even reveal a couple things abvout activating them most people didnt realize.
also funny thing about jow recipes,as we just released the first book of its kind with over 60 jow recipes in it,and i assure you it was missing no ingredients,unless you were speaking of things like,bear paw,wolf's teeth,tiger claw and python gaul or other various things that are not nessescary or just absolutely superstitious. the chinese are a very superstitious people and some ingredients were added as such. our formulas were cross referenced with with many ,many other schools across america and they all were spot on except for a few different ingredients here and there,as you will see this from school to school and region to region, but the differences would make no difference in the overall formulas potency. the whole thing about "my formula is better or more secreative" is just total b.s.
many schoole sare the same formula and they dont even know it and think they have the only real formula and it is a secret. we ran into this on 3 seperate occasions putting the books together.3 different soureces gave us their "closed door" formulas at one point thinking it was supoer secret,little did they know other schools were using the same formula,exactly same formula. it was the northern shaolin(ku yu cheong). the time for secrecy has ended,it is 2010, not 1020. we do tis to further the art not keep it in the dark ages,this knowlege should be available to all who want it and have the desrie to study. so if you withold igredients from someone,you sir are defrauding the individual and taking advantage of his trust in you. good job,this is why we wrote the book, to put a stop to this nonsense.

[sanjuro_ronin]

forgive my ignorance, but what does Jesus have to do with gung fu?

You didn't know that Jesus was a master of Jew-Do ?
And that has as much to do with Kung fu as Buddha, LOL !

[hskwarrior]

so i wouldn't sound crazy if i said "In the name of Jesus Christ I'm going to Kwa Sow Chop You!!!!"

[sanjuro_ronin]

so i wouldn't sound crazy if i said "In the name of Jesus Christ I'm going to Kwa Sow Chop You!!!!"

Praise the Lord no-shadow kick !
Crucifix for the win !

[KC Elbows]

Ankle lock into a foot washing?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ankle lock into a foot washing?

Followed by an oil bath...That Jesus, always in a good place:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_p7lKtuJyE7M/S8tnxnuVi_I/AAAAAAAAugw/-SIsQ3QeOME/s1600/holy-cleavage.jpg

[KC Elbows]

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

[Syn7]

Do you think you can learn to play darts from a instructiona video?
How about Chess?
How about learning how to run or jump?
How about learning how to lift a brabell?
How about how to use a hammer? or a drill ?
How about how to throw a curve ball or a fast ball?
Etc, etc
Context.

people take things for granted, see it and think they can do it...

and to take one of your examples, curve ball... i think its way better to be shown in person, to have somebody there to tell you to do more or less of this or that... yadda yadda

martial arts are a hands on experience... i just dont feel one should learn from a dvd from scratch... i can think of lots of times my sifu said 'stop' and came over and made adjustments, or hit me in a certain spot to demo the effects, or showed me some grappling i needed to feel... cant do that on a video or via web feed... i feel its a very important part of learning...

[sanjuro_ronin]

people take things for granted, see it and think they can do it...

martial arts are a hands on experience... i just dont feel one should learn from a dvd from scratch... i can think of lots of times my sifu said 'stop' and came over and made adjustments, or hit me in a certain spot to demo the effects, or showed me some grappling i needed to feel... cant do that on a video or via web feed... i feel its a very important part of learning...

We are NOT talking about MA though, are we?
We are talking about conditioning.
Can you learn to stretch from a DVD?
Can you learn how to strength train from a DVD?
How to use the HB, the focus mitts?

[KC Elbows]

We are NOT talking about MA though, are we?
We are talking about conditioning.
Can you learn to stretch from a DVD?
Can you learn how to strength train from a DVD?
How to use the HB, the focus mitts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqK3NrmcyQ4

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqK3NrmcyQ4

See what I mean...
:p

[SoCo KungFu]

people take things for granted, see it and think they can do it...

and to take one of your examples, curve ball... i think its way better to be shown in person, to have somebody there to tell you to do more or less of this or that... yadda yadda

martial arts are a hands on experience... i just dont feel one should learn from a dvd from scratch... i can think of lots of times my sifu said 'stop' and came over and made adjustments, or hit me in a certain spot to demo the effects, or showed me some grappling i needed to feel... cant do that on a video or via web feed... i feel its a very important part of learning...

I would agree but this isn't a skill based activity. This is conditioning. For Pete's sake you have the exact same effect on your feet if go run. Yet no one seems to be going blind from poor running form....

[SoCo KungFu]

if you train your IP hand properly you DO NOT develop callouses.

Contusions should not be the result of IP training.

Christ some people bruise from being looked at wrong. Yeah ok its not supposed to happen in IP training. But considering everything else in MA has the potential to do the same exact thing, then I guess its not that big a deal now is it? Or are we going to start running from our shadow too?


slapping some bean bags is your idea of IP training?

Does your video explian the function of the luo gong, mingmen, fu zhong shin? all points that need to be properly trained to move the qi to the neccesary points in the palm?

How about go and get something verifiable that all that even exists in the context you are attempting to use for an argument and then come back. The jury is still out on all this to begin with. But then TGY has explained this in much better detail than I ever could.


improper training damages the nerve endings in the fingertips which are connected to the meridians of the body which then connect to the internal organs. any basic IP person knows this. And you cant understand that from a DVD

No, muscles and sensory receptors in your dermal layers connect to nerve endings via synapses and then travel through your upper extremity to the cervical enlargement and into your central nervous system. They do not connect to any meridian or organ in this pathway other than through the already mention synaptic locations and well ultimately the spinal cord and brain (CNS)...you can understand that from a highschool level anatomy course.


If you are looking to get your law degree from a crackerjack box then you can go ahead and practice law, just dont advertise and try to sell your product to ppl on the internet who know better.
You can buy DVD to learn MA and become a BB but we all know how that is viewed :rolleyes:

Likewise, keep mythology and ancient superstition out of documented and verified scientific foundation.


next you will say that you are willing to sell your jow recipe on the internet LMAO. And if you are seling your recipe than i can assure you its missing some ingredients. I have a 350 year old bone and skin recipe that has been handed down in our system forever do you think if I massed produced it and sold it for 20 bucks to any tom dikc and harry I would include all the REAL ingredients? Come on lets be honest with each other why not ask famous amous for his cookie recipe you migth have a better chance at that.

I think you are confusing me for teetsao. I do rather enjoy famous amous cookies though. As to secret ingredients, do you really think that its that hard to take something to a lab and have it analyzed for ingredients? Hell I used to have it done all the time when I was military for anything from nutritional supplements to alternative herbal items because I didn't want anything to pop up on a random drug screening and bioenvironmental would test everything you brought a sample of. Granted they aren't going to come back as say yeah this is goats right testicle, but they can give you the compounds and you can go from there.

[teetsao]

socokungfu; you are right on. dit da jow is basically folk medecine and blends of herbs all have the same basic base. with very few deviations. we have only really run into 3 or 4 formulas that were much different from any others. i have callouses on my hands,but i am a man, and i have bruised my hand on the i.p. bag,i am not a sissy. anytime you hit solid objects such as bricks coconuts or the steel shot bag or even training dummies,sam sing and just plain ol' sparring,you are going to get bruises. hence you use jow,and i.p. specific jows for i.p.
earthdragon is trying to turn this into something it was not meant to be. he is a brian gray follower,who by the way just uses the qi li san jow formula with a couple extra ingredients,and is also a friend of damian fe****o. i saw his oither posts on a thread about iron palm, and he basically just copied the exact same thing he said last time. i do not want this to turn into a ****ing match,that is not why i do, what i do. we released an instructional dvd to help others and give out info we think may be lacking in the general public. we feel our material is high quality and legitamate. i am not on here to argue with people,i want friends not enemies,especially since we have never met.

[Eric Hunstad]

No, muscles and sensory receptors in your dermal layers connect to nerve endings via synapses and then travel through your upper extremity to the cervical plexus and into your central nervous system. They do not connect to any meridian or organ in this pathway other than through the already mention synaptic locations and well ultimately the spinal cord and brain (CNS)...you can understand that from a highschool level anatomy course.


Likewise, keep mythology and ancient superstition out of documented and verified scientific foundation.

Actually, there is at least some scientific evidence to the existance of meridians. A 2005 clinical review of the scientific evidence of acupuncture states:

"An interesting study demonstrating the map of a meridian pathway involved the injection of Technitium99, a radioactive tracer, into both true and sham acupoints. The scan of the injection sites showed random diffusion of the tracer ariund the sham point but rapid progression of the tracer along the meridian at a rate that was inconsistent with either lymphatic/vascular flow or nerve conduction."

"Another study demonstrated that needling a point on the lower leg traditionally associated with the eye activated the occipital cortex of the brain as detected by functional magnetic resonance imaging."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501973

Eric Hunstad
www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

[teetsao]

socokungfu; wow i am impressed at your knowledge of the human anatomy. we may call on you for help regaurding some experiments we have been wanting to try. keep up the good work.

[SoCo KungFu]

Actually, there is at least some scientific evidence to the existance of meridians. A 2005 clinical review of the scientific evidence of acupuncture states:

"An interesting study demonstrating the map of a meridian pathway involved the injection of Technitium99, a radioactive tracer, into both true and sham acupoints. The scan of the injection sites showed random diffusion of the tracer ariund the sham point but rapid progression of the tracer along the meridian at a rate that was inconsistent with either lymphatic/vascular flow or nerve conduction."

"Another study demonstrated that needling a point on the lower leg traditionally associated with the eye activated the occipital cortex of the brain as detected by functional magnetic resonance imaging."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501973

Eric Hunstad
www.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

Technetium99 is both foreign to the body and is a dipolar molecule, its weakly magnetic. That would explain both the random diffusion through tissue cells at the "sham" points and the directed diffusion in the "true" points if those areas organized into a more concentrated flow of polar charges. Any electrical differential in the body (and well really all of our bodies' processes function off chemical/electrical gradients) could potentially direct the flow depending on the tissue structures in proximity of and their cellular permeability. Furthermore, the article does not reference the actual points in which the injections were made and as such we cannot know in which path the tracer actually traveled from the "true" points. Our bodies are not just a conglomeration of non differentiated cells. They are comprised of specific cellular structure that are organized for their function and as such it needs to be noted through which structures did the tracer pass.

Not that this is disproving of a body energy. Actually theory of chemiosmosis says there kinda has to be. But what I'm saying is that this isn't some mystical force. Your link says it can't be quantified and studied. That's because people are looking for the wrong things. They are looking for superstitions when they should be looking for the actual physiological interactions that the misnomer "chi" has become an ambiguous catch all term for.

And with that, there is just no basis for concern of some of these perceived dangers other than oral transmission of warnings that can and probably are both bits of truth mixed with a nice dose of folklore and superstition all wrapped into one. But then again, it goes back to a conversation here from a couple years ago. Is it really any more dangerous than lifting weights, running, hitting a heavy bag or the like? No, it isn't.

[SoCo KungFu]

socokungfu; wow i am impressed at your knowledge of the human anatomy. we may call on you for help regaurding some experiments we have been wanting to try. keep up the good work.

Thanks for the compliment but there are others here that are really much more versed in this area and would be infinitely more qualified to assist you.

****it TGY needs to get in here I'm running out of SAT words. I have about 2 more posts before I start sounding like forrest gump.

[Violent Designs]

SoCo thanks for informative posts.




violent designs, didnt mean to be offensive,just thought most people had heard of vibrating palm. i will find the chinese transliteration for it and post it. it is one of the top levels of poison hand. earl montaigue describes it in his book as such,"the vibrating palm is probably one of themost difficult of all weapons to learn.First you must have complete relaxation inb your arm and palm.When oyu strike the power is so great that it causes a ripple to move down into the palm which "vibrates" violently upon impact sending energy through the body" the method was given to us by dr. "John" Winglok Ng. it realyl isnt hard to learn and we give the first step into acheiving it.



Would this be a good example?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s

thanks

[Syn7]

oh i never criticised this video... i havent given it the time it deserves if i was gonna knock it specifically...

i was talking about martial arts... forms and techniques... sorry if i wasnt clear... i wondered why you said some of what you said...

yeah sure you can get tips on lots of stuff on dvd... i just dont think onyone should learn martial arts from scratch that way... ever... (even if they have an uncanny ability to copy what they see)... just my opinion... its a bit of a fundamental belief, i dont see anyone convincing me otherwise... but yeah sure, i suppose a very few people could do not so bad without real help, just a dvd... but for every 1 of them, alot more will do it wrong, maybe get themselves hurt due to false confidence and heaven forbid they actually pass it on or start a style that way...

ive learned alot by watching... ALOT... but i have had alot of crucial info passed on to me physically...

[EarthDragon]

earthdragon;yes you can learn i.p. from video. it is a conditioning skill. now granted oyu may not learn to be able to use it properly,but this goes with do oyu have m.a. training,and i take it most that get the dvd weill have some type of m.a. training. it sounds like oyu have extensive knowledge in t.c.m.a. so the dvd would not be applicable to you.
funny you mention it about the laogong,bai hui,dantian and yongchuan, as we cover all of this and maybe even reveal a couple things abvout activating them most people didnt realize.
.

wow this is getting waaaay to complicated for me but allow me to address this as well ac soco post.

teet, you said you can watch your video but people may not learn it properly? then why are you selling it? I would think you would want pple to understand and learn properly from your video, this statment is very confusing

If indeed you are putting out the video for AID or as an intro into IP then that would be more acceptable then to teach something that really needs a teacher and or supervision. if you are also going to give your recipe out tothe general pubilc, then please send it to me via PM or post it here so we can all see.
BTW while I do know Damian as he and I are IP pracitoners as well as John Newbery and Dale dugas, I DO NOT use Damien's recipe, he and I exchanged our jow via mail and mine is much different in ingredients and potancy I mailed him bone formula not the skin. My recipe is very old from 1648 comes from our system of PM from Shandong, not from people I have met online.

soco

How about go and get something verifiable that all that even exists in the context you are attempting to use for an argument and then come back. The jury is still out on all this to begin with. But then TGY has explained this in much better detail than I ever could.

what do you need? clinical studies? I am a practicing OMD along with my teacher who runs 2 medical clinics in SF bay area.



No, muscles and sensory receptors in your dermal layers connect to nerve endings via synapses and then travel through your upper extremity to the cervical plexus and into your central nervous system. They do not connect to any meridian or organ in this pathway other than through the already mention synaptic locations and well ultimately the spinal cord and brain (CNS)...you can understand that from a highschool level anatomy course.

dont know why I am bothering to post this as your staement is totaly inaccurate and your medical lingo in the post above doesnt make sense but obviously you need to understand, so off the top of my head.....tip of index finger LG1 large intestine, middle finger SC9 secular circulation, ring finger TW1triple warmer and pinky heart I believe thats just off the top of my head so again improper damage to your finger tips because of improper training causes nerve damage as well as internal organ stress. So if you have ANY medical knowledge you wouldnt have made the statment above


Likewise, keep mythology and ancient superstition out of documented and verified scientific foundation.

facts are facts



do you really think that its that hard to take something to a lab and have it analyzed for ingredients?
yes a mixture of fermented jow over the course of lets say at least 10 years could not be seperatized in a enviro American owned lab. Some of the ingredients we use come from China and are illiegal and not allowed in the USA and have no english name, they are snuck in over the border from Toronto Canada.

again not tryin to argue or match wits here, just standing behind my opinion that you shouldnt teach something like IP or any internal stuff via a DVD. I teach qigong and some of the excersizes are so minute that cant be seen. If i were to put it on DVD is would look very very boring and unfulfilling as you cannot see the internal stuff at work. but surely you teahcing MUST be hands on or you could practice incorreclty the whole time... some things you just gotta do the right way, kung fu = hard work. no 1 hour DVD will make it better or faster........

[Eric Hunstad]

Sanjuro_ronin: I forgot to thank you for your photo you posted! I know that move anywhere- it's "Hike the breast to WuDan Mountain" movements of Won Hot Chik. It is a set up technique and has been used many times thru history to defeat Many Por Sapp. I have never seen it fail! But I have heard rumors that it can be successfully defended by the students of He Gai Guy!

SoCo: As far as the study I posted, the link was for a clinical review of the acupuncture literature. I put it up because it was interesting overall and referenced the article with the evidence of the meridians. I should have known you would want to see the specific study! :D

I tried to upload the specific study and attach it here but it exceeds the forums limits. It was obtained from a British medical journal website that requires users to register (but it's free). Oh well, let me know if you want it and I'll email it to you. It is actually very interesting. Many acupoints were used, including LI18, 19, 20, ST41, 43, BL36, K7, and LV2 among many others. The study shows many of the images which were taken and it is very clear it follows the traditionally indicated routes. Regardless of what the meridians are, they do exist at least in some capacity. It is too bad I can't seem to attach it here. If you or anyone else is interested, I'll try to find a way to put it up, if not, I won't bother.

Teet: I posted my experience to only show IP can cause problems if done incorrectly. I even had a teacher and still managed to screw it up bigtime! But As I said I didn't mean to imply you should'nt have put it out there. I commend you for your efforts in making a positive contribution to the field. Also, your thread is generating a lot of buzz- as they say in Hollywood, no such thing as bad publicity!!!

ED: If Teet is correct and you are a follower of Brian Gray, didn't he put out a book and DVD's on IP? I think that Teet is responsible and knowledgable enough to put out a stand alone product. Looking back at my experience, no one could have stopped me from my deranged quest for the IP, and some people in other parts of the states don't have access to a Sifu that knows it.

Everyone else: If you have any interest in IP, get this video. If enough people buy it, teet may be kind enough to produce more interesting videos....

But if you get it, follow the instructions! I skipped the whole bean thing and started with steel shot right away. Then because I was adapting to the impact rather quickly and it gave me a enhanced sense of well-being (similar to a runners high), I gradually increased the impact until I was hitting WWWWAAAYYYY too hard. It was only then that I started to develop the problems with my nervous system that I mentioned. Totally 100% my fault, no reflection on my teacher or the method.

[EarthDragon]

ERIC,

ED: If Teet is correct and you are a follower of Brian Gray, didn't he put out a book and DVD's on IP?

No I am not a follower of Brain Gray, although I know of him, I live in NY and trained only in San Francisco under 2 Chinese shifu's. I have never met nor trained under him.

I have met one of his students though, he trained in our system for a a few years and even came and did a IP demo at my school back in 1997 and we exchanged some jow. And his IP was very good so not sure why people tend to talk smack about him but hey its the internet and people can get away with being internet tough guys to people that have never met.

I just get a kick out of people who try to make kung fu faster, easier, and simpler to learn without putting in enough time in. Years ago people would say whats that those guys are doing looks interesting, and the chinese would reply you dont want to do that... its (kung fu) translate hard work
there is NO easy path........................and you cant BUY techniques but lazy Americans will always look for the easy way out like 8 minutes abs and all these stay at home and get fit ****e on on DVD cause thier too lazy to go to the gym, no wonder why people make fun of the pajama wearing martial artsits...

[teetsao]

thank you to everyone for your input and support.
i am not here to argue,belittle,condemn or otherwise. i am a life long student and wish to share and learn
i will not let earthdragon goad me into arguing. i will however do something i dont think anyone else has ever done on here. i am going to post one of the i.p. jows we use in our system. it is called the "black hand". it is used for on the hands only as it is i.p. specific. it got left out of the first book along with 3 others,inadvertantly,but then it leaves me something to give as a gift to my kung fu brothers. this is just an example of the jows we use and have. the book has 60 in it.
i will post it in a new thread called,"a gift to my kung fu brothers".
i hope all enjoy.i will include brewing instructions.

[Syn7]

looks ineresting, was that ointment or muscle rub or whatever type of recipes??? the part where he had a jar of water or something???

good luck... hope it works out for you...;)

[EarthDragon]

teetsao
i will not let earthdragon goad me into arguing.

no worries brother I am not trying to argue with you at all, and I would hope I am not coming across like that, if so my sincere apologies. Its just a discussion.

I am from the old school and got my skillls by way of hard knocks and dont like or respect short cuts.
I am currently teaching 5 black belts from various korean and japanese styles in my classes whose sensei's took short cuts and when they came to me for teaching they couldnt fight and thier defense and foundation was questionable to say the least.

I have a firm belief that there are things that you must have strict tutelage in and one of those things is IP training and IMO you need hands on teaching.sorry if my opinon came off so strong but MA is my passion and life

Its ok to disagree hey its just my opinon and everyone has thier own. I sent you a PM please check.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think that every IP thread should have a link to Wolf's Law, like SoCol posted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff%27s_law

Focus:
Examples
Tennis players often use one arm more than the other

* The racquet-holding arm bones of tennis players become much stronger than those of the other arm. Their bodies have strengthened the bones in their racquet-holding arm since it is routinely placed under higher than normal stresses.
* Surfers who knee-paddle frequently will develop bone bumps, aka exostoses, on the tibial eminence and the dorsal part of the navicular tarsal bone from the pressure of the surfboard's surface. These are often called "surf knots."
* Astronauts who spend a long time in space will often return to Earth with weaker bones, since gravity hasn't been exerting a load on their bones. Their bodies have reabsorbed much of the mineral that was previously in their bones.
* Weightlifters often display increases in bone density in response to their training.
* Martial artists who punch or kick objects with increasing intensity (or of increasing hardness) to develop striking power to damage opponents, often display increases in bone density in the striking area. This process is known as cortical remodeling.

[jason.]

Teetsao,

Bought the book, really great. Looking forward to the DVD. Keep up the great work!

[teetsao]

jason;thank you so much for your support. i think you will not be disappointed with the dvd either.

[SoCo KungFu]

soco

what do you need? clinical studies? I am a practicing OMD along with my teacher who runs 2 medical clinics in SF bay area.

That'd be a start


dont know why I am bothering to post this as your staement is totaly inaccurate and your medical lingo in the post above doesnt make sense but obviously you need to understand

LOL wut??

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9462/neuron0001.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7623/synapse0001.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/S/Synapses.html
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7790/motornervemusclesynapse.jpg
http://blass.com.au/definitions/neuromuscular%20junction
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3084/nervemusclesynapse20001.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3238/cervicalnerveenlargemen.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_enlargement
http://www.shoulderanaesthesia.com/images/anatomy-diag.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5278/nervesrarmanterior0001.jpg


so off the top of my head.....tip of index finger LG1 large intestine, middle finger SC9 secular circulation, ring finger TW1triple warmer and pinky heart I believe thats just off the top of my head so again improper damage to your finger tips because of improper training causes nerve damage as well as internal organ stress.
So again this says absolutely nothing.


So if you have ANY medical knowledge you wouldnt have made the statment above

Sooooo....you're going to try and call me out yet you go about throwing around an outdated, incomprehensive view of the body on top of a well mapped modern anatomical structure...I really don't care what you call the spec at the tip of my middle finger, there is no neurological connection between that and any of those organs.


facts are facts


Not until they're proven.

LOL it wasn't until 1876 that anyone even made the connection that germs cause disease. And you're going to come and throw that ancient mess around? So apparently they had the ability to objectively isolate things like genetic predisposition, aging, diet, sodium used as a preservative, pollution and particulate matter from stoves and furnaces which we now can link to all kinds of things from genetic mutation to cancer, pathogens that they hadn't even discovered yet, alcohol, smoking, drugs...the list goes on...but yet with all of that, they were somehow able to say, IP will make your heart stop or your liver to fail or you to go blind....So what about all the people that are wearing glasses by the time they're 20 who have never done martial arts? What about people that work heavy construction or athletics they're whole life and have perfect hearts and vision? Why aren't carpenters or masons dropping dead of liver failure across the country? A friend of mine works ceramics, she probably puts more strain and impact on her hands than most here slamming around and pounding out giant slabs of clay all day. She's perfectly fine...I've broken each of my hands now boxing and I still have perfect sensory, vascular and gross/fine motor function.

People here have even stated in the past they've done it both with and without jow, both with and without meditation and haven't noticed any difference.

Anyways, I'm done hijacking dudes thread. GL with your IP sales teets. Haters gonna hate. Don't mind them...

[Hardwork108]

just curious if you think ppl should or would be able to learn IP from a DVD? arent you concerned about ppl damaging themselves when practicing incorrectly?
just curious also why you mocked Brain Grey?

I mean i know its the year 2010 adn you can get your BB online if your lazy but videos to teach IP???? im a little concerned. Im afraid of ppl buying this DVD and claiming they are IP guys and teaching thier friends and so on and so on

I kinda agree with this. I believe that Iron Palm should be studied under the guidance of a qualified sifu, as the potential to waste ones time at best, and hurting oneself, at worst, is very high when one uses a dvd for such training.

Of course, if one already has a sifu to teach him this stuff then a good IP dvd may provide some useful information for him.

[Hardwork108]

I have a firm belief that there are things that you must have strict tutelage in and one of those things is IP training and IMO you need hands on teaching.sorry if my opinon came off so strong but MA is my passion and life.

I wish we had a few more kung fu guys like you here in this forum. Your outlook is very similar to my kung fu sifus.:)

[EarthDragon]

thank you hardwork 108, someone else who sees the validity in proper tutelage.

When it comes to teaching my students I am constantly correcting them, with thier hand position, foot position, spinal alignment, power generation, balance, weight distribuition etc etc. these sublte things cannot be corrected if you are watching them from a video in your living room. it can be a guide ot tool but should not take the place of a qualified teacher.

soCo
if your going to base your points of discussion on what you can cut and paste from the internet I feel this conversation cannot continue. may I ask how many years of med school you have attianed? and at What schools? have you obtained any medical degrees? are you a practcing or licensed O.M.D?

PS The outdated incomprehensive view of the body as you said is taught to this day across the world and in every medical school in China, korea and Japan.

so I dont know why you say out dated but this shows an incrediable amount of ignorance on your part.. this knowledge of the functions of meridan and internal organ connection has been around for 4000 years and still is taught. American medicine is only 273 years old and here they teach to treat the branch of the problem not the root or its internal connection of the body, I know this becuse my wife is a echo cardiologist at Millard Fillmore hosptial here in NY so please refrain from cutting and pasting medical pictures you googled to make up for your lack of education and knowledge in this area to prove your point, thanks

[Violent Designs]

Is this type of fajin found in Xing Yi Quan equivalent of good "vibrating palm?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s

[teetsao]

it looks like real good fajin exercises. we do something like that,but vibrating palm is a way on basically passing your energy into an object. not qi we are tslking about here. it gets kind deep when speaking of vibrational energy. we have phhysical exercises we do to develop it,but it is lead mostly with intention. short strikes in our system are backed by vibration.
you will develop some vibrational ability just from years of repetative iron palm training,but to really amp it up you have to know the other exercises and how to lead it. the longer you leave your hand on the object the deeper the penetration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXqU6elmaDI

i worked on this for awhile and i still have not perfected it. i am really working on it at a linear level. this is how you get organ destruction or degeneration. when you hit and with fajin and vibration the damage is done on the inside.

[EarthDragon]

,but vibrating palm is a way on basically passing your energy into an object. not qi we are tslking about here.

alhough I have not reached this level, (LOL maybe next week) I watched my teacher place the back of his hand on a concrete slab, pull his hand towards him and turn his hand over without breaking contact with the tips of the fingers and continue the movement until his palm was facing down and the block shattered in various and directions. he explained his vibration penetrated into the slab, however this IS qi , so not sure why you said vibrational force is not qi cna you explian what you mean here?


but it is lead mostly with intention. short strikes in our system are backed by vibration.

agreed...........however Yi and qi are different but the Yi leads qi so again please explian what you mean, thanks

.
this is how you get organ destruction or degeneration. when you hit and with fajin and vibration the damage is done on the inside.

LOL can you explian this to soCo? he doesnt seem to think there is ANY link to the body and the internal organs, his staments are that the parts of our bodies are not conected to each other..... I have news for him EVERYTHING in the universe is connected...... metaphysics is my thang

[Syn7]

it looks like real good fajin exercises. we do something like that,but vibrating palm is a way on basically passing your energy into an object. not qi we are tslking about here. it gets kind deep when speaking of vibrational energy. we have phhysical exercises we do to develop it,but it is lead mostly with intention. short strikes in our system are backed by vibration.
you will develop some vibrational ability just from years of repetative iron palm training,but to really amp it up you have to know the other exercises and how to lead it. the longer you leave your hand on the object the deeper the penetration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXqU6elmaDI

i worked on this for awhile and i still have not perfected it. i am really working on it at a linear level. this is how you get organ destruction or degeneration. when you hit and with fajin and vibration the damage is done on the inside.


so was it your intention to just break the last one each time???

[teetsao]

earthdragon, YES, that is exactly what i was talking about. my teacher told me the highest level of vibrational palm is to just lay the hand on the slab and it will break, so oyu sir have witnessed first hand the highest level of vibrational palm. this level is acheived by very,very few. the thing about qi is this; it is not what everyone thinks it is, but i thinkit is more than what i think it is. i do not beleive it is like the "force" as i n star wars as some do. i think it is intrinsic energy in the body,and being energy it cannot be created or destroyed but only manipulated. the chinese have a saying" qi does not effect the man made of stone,glass or wood",meaning; qi does not effect inanimate objects but only living material. vibration is what breaks objects not qi. this is scientific(and beleive me i am the last one to trust in science).you can however charge oyur hands with qi to make them stronger. the intention thing gets a little deep and people might think i am crazy,so i will save that one til' some other time.
the hitting and causing damage to the organ is done by vibrational force. i do say i have ot agree with soco,as i do not believe hitting the fingertips will harm you in any way,as i have been doing it for over 4 years and bros. of mine who study tiger have been doing it for over a decade with no ill effects whatsoever. none of us wear glasses,and all have healthy livers. i think if anything it would haelp as it would stimulate the points and not block them.

syn7; yes that was the gaol to break only the bottom. now the real trick is to break only the middle one.
i am waiting for a friend to put up a video where i broke only the top,then just the bottom of a 3 stack. not easy, but still not just the middle. selective breaking is very difficult. i have never seen anyone master it, that is of course except.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPWh24YQ1go

[Syn7]

yeah no doubt... breaking the middle one would be sweet... i never really got into breaking... i mean i still do hand conditioning and stuff, but very limited breaking experience...

i'd like to be able to throw the needle thru glass... i like that one...

[Syn7]

this was linked in the window with the vandamme link you put up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7vBd8Z47ZE


i dont know what posessed me to click on a steve harvey clip but it gave me a good laugh...


so waddya think? fake, dude was a plant? hypnotized??

i remember years back i had been a part of a hypnotism demo, i was picked out of a crowd and the guy put like 10 people under but he couldnt do it to me... at the time he said i wasnt receptive, but i thought i was... i really did wanna feel what it would be like so i wanted him to succeed... he tried like 5 times then moved on, then when he did everyone else he came back to me, tried some more and still nothing... ive seen people get hypnotized easilly and quickly so i know its possible... i think its what alot of these healer scammers do...

[teetsao]

yeah,lol, thats that ******* that was on stan lees show. i would defianetly let him try on me.
i had the same experience , i was a the funny bone in st louis and they had a comedian who was doing hypnotism,so he asked for volunteres. i was sitting rightin front, he looked at me so i volunteered, he tried twice,looked at me and asked me to leave the stage,LOL. so not sure if everyone else went under like they acted like they did, but if it was real, i am glad i cannot be effected.
george dillman gave real kyusho and dim mak a real bad rap. the whole "no touch" knockout b.s. just really gets me. i am not saying i 100% dont beleive it, but i would definately let him try on me,i have a funny feeling i would be ok.
oh and to answer your question, FAKE.

[teetsao]

ok i rewatched it.
he did physically touch him so yes i beleive that. his last point he hit was stomach9, that is a stand alone k.o. point. he did an acticvation on the lower leg then hit a lung point on the arm i think, then st9,so yes i think he did legitametly put that kid down.
i have had some kyusho and dim mak but not alot,so i am defienatly not an expert on this. i have a bro. who is an expert on this subject and is supposed to be teahcing me, so i will get him to look at it.

[Syn7]

i had the same experience , i was a the funny bone in st louis and they had a comedian who was doing hypnotism,so he asked for volunteres. i was sitting rightin front, he looked at me so i volunteered, he tried twice,looked at me and asked me to leave the stage,LOL. so not sure if everyone else went under like they acted like they did, but if it was real, i am glad i cannot be effected.

yeah, at first i was kinda dissapointed but later on i felt the way you did... like i have a strong mind that an ametuer couldnt get into... who knows... its a nice thought, but i really dont know much about it...

[Syn7]

ok i rewatched it.
he did physically touch him so yes i beleive that. his last point he hit was stomach9, that is a stand alone k.o. point. he did an acticvation on the lower leg then hit a lung point on the arm i think, then st9,so yes i think he did legitametly put that kid down.
i have had some kyusho and dim mak but not alot,so i am defienatly not an expert on this. i have a bro. who is an expert on this subject and is supposed to be teahcing me, so i will get him to look at it.

interesting... im forever skeptical...

anyone else?

[Syn7]

cameron is a dillman student...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar1yXYOsxQk

[teetsao]

not sure about this site,but on a google search they had a pretty good explanation.
http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=15785177&site_id=1#import

as i said ,it is a stand alone point. it really does work. now add in the lung point on the arm and whammo,out he goes. he probably wasnt totally out but he was good and dazed.

[teetsao]

sorry for so many post, but i just needed to say, this is highly irresponsible from this "master" as if you dont know someones background,especially health background,this is extremely dangerous,as it could break loose plaque on the artery and lead to stroke, "delayed death touch" or if his arfteries were weak from something or just any number of things,this could have killed him on the spot or up to days later.

[Syn7]

uggg dillman is such a tool...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0&feature=related

so ok, he says its so powerful because you dont even have to touch a guy to win... then when it doesnt work he says its coz he's a non believer... so ok, all i have to do is think you suck to not get put down then???

ok so this guy is a tool, but can he even fight with his karate? at all?

[Hardwork108]

thank you hardwork 108, someone else who sees the validity in proper tutelage.
I was lucky enough to get tutalage from a couple of great sifus, so I know the difference.:)


When it comes to teaching my students I am constantly correcting them, with thier hand position, foot position, spinal alignment, power generation, balance, weight distribuition etc etc. these sublte things cannot be corrected if you are watching them from a video in your living room. it can be a guide ot tool but should not take the place of a qualified teacher.

Very true, and you say, you constantly correct your students, and that is because it takes a while for certain techniqualities to sink in. What chance does a newbie have in learning and improving himself, watching dvds, and worse, when it comes to methodologies that can potentially injure the practitioner.

From experience, I know that a slight touch and correction from a sifu can teach one more than all the dvds and books in the world.

[Syn7]

nah, at best i think its "hypnotic suggestion", hence the believer thing and why it only works on students... or at worst he's a tota; fraud and thats why it only works on his students...


now, im not saying this cant be done, but i am saying that he cant do it... atleast he isnt doing what he says he's doing... his "psych" makes him come off like a total nerd, an insecurity complex type driven individual...

[teetsao]

oh i agree whoel heartedly, dillman is a tool.
did you ever see the one where he tried it on someone and it didnt work so he said it was beacuse they had their big toe raised off the ground?? seriously he said that.

hardwork; ok for the last time, yes you can learn skills such as iron palm from a dvd, unless you are a complete idiot, but even then i think your chances are pretty good.
lots of schools put out dvds on different things,so are they all wrong for doing this or just me because i beleive i have something to offer and i beleive my clientell will be intelligent enough to discern training from my video.
i will say no more on the subject.

[Syn7]

did you ever see the one where he tried it on someone and it didnt work so he said it was beacuse they had their big toe raised off the ground?? seriously he said that.


yeah its one of the vids i posted... ;)

[teetsao]

syn7; PLUS, george dillman is a big fat douche bag.
LOL
i shall forever walk around with my big toes up and my tounge moving around the inside of my mouth, now i am protected from the force.

[LSWCTN1]

nah, at best i think its "hypnotic suggestion", hence the believer thing and why it only works on students... or at worst he's a tota; fraud and thats why it only works on his students...


watch Derren Brown, 'The Heist'

hypnotic no touch ko at its best...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I did an in depth study of Dim mak years ago, the best way to lolok ta it is from a sniper analogy:
Aim small, miss small, know what I mean?
The most effective points - those that work on all the people all the time- were common in EVERY MA.
They are the ones that consitently produced KO's or incapcitations on a even trained fighters, people trained and used to being hit and being hit while under the stress of fighting which changes everything by the way.

Dillman is a ***** and so is ANYONE that goes around smacking people to make them "faint".

Wanna show off your dim mak?
The ring awaits you, period.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Having done IP from a very well qualified Kung Kuen Sifu AFTER having done it not only by another sifu and by DVD, I can say this:
It is ALL about the feeling, the feed back you get from hitting and NO SIFU can feel it for you.
I have seen some crappy IP videos that teach NOTHING of value and have seen some that teach MORE than they should, LOL !
You can't make a blanket statement that you can't learn IP from a DVD WITHOUT seeing the DVD, that is just silly.

I have yet to see Rod's but I will say this, when I see it I will review it and be very honest about it.

FYI: when I showed my current Hung Kuen Sifu my IP and the training I do for it he was very impressed and even more so when I told him it was from a DVD and even more so when I showed him the DVD.
He words were along the lines of how lucky we are to be in the information age, how amazing it is that a well done DVD can be so rich in info.

I good IP DVD will tell you how and how NOT to, show you the most common mistakes, explain how to avoid them and what to look for, etc, etc.

I think many forget that, like I mentioned before, IP is a conditoning kung and it based on FEEL, no sifu can tell you that you are hitting to hard, to soft, not tensing enough or too much, nope, only YOU can feel it.
Sure there can be SOME minor signs, but if your sifu can SEE them that means that unless you are an idiot, you can FEEL them too.

[EarthDragon]

sanjuro,

I have seen some crappy IP videos that teach NOTHING of value and have seen some that teach MORE than they should, LOL !
You can't make a blanket statement that you can't learn IP from a DVD WITHOUT seeing the DVD, that is just silly.

you are right perhaps I made a quick assumption and a incorrect one to boot. As a teacher and as a guy who spnet 30 years in MA i tend to whince at the fact that people buy a video and learn it at home and say thier martial artists or try to take the easy short way on their path to whereever it is they are going. So pardon me for making a sweeping genraization and not giving this DVD a chance

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro,


you are right perhaps I made a quick assumption and a incorrect one to boot. As a teacher and as a guy who spnet 30 years in MA i tend to whince at the fact that people buy a video and learn it at home and say thier martial artists or try to take the easy short way on their path to whereever it is they are going. So pardon me for making a sweeping genraization and not giving this DVD a chance

Dude, I feel your pain, trust me.
Since starting MA in 78 and having done MA in Europe, asia and n.america, I have seen some serious crap more than serious stuff.
I have an extensive library of almost every MA and that included books, dvd, vhs, the works.
By far the majority of DVD as good only to see the moves of a MA, nothing more.
But some, those with a good instructor, can teach some very good quality stuff.

I don't think you can learn ANY MA from DVD, unless you have a solid point of reference ( like learning Shotokan bt DVD is you have a BB in Wado-ryu) and some nice sparring partners.
But certain kungs like IP or things that are not HIGHLY technical, yeah, you can.

BUT I will say this, some people are horrible to teach in person so I can only imagine the horrific results of those people learning via DVD or whatnot.

[Violent Designs]

BUT I will say this, some people are horrible to teach in person so I can only imagine the horrific results of those people learning via DVD or whatnot.

HAHAHAHAHA where is the rep feature, we need one!!!

+9000

[teetsao]

it is available starting today

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280566411840

[Lucas]

BUT I will say this, some people are horrible to teach in person so I can only imagine the horrific results of those people learning via DVD or whatnot.

not the same but it reminds me of this episode of futurama i saw where student has to fight teacher and teacher says:

you were my best student, too bad i was a lousy teacher!!

haha

[EarthDragon]

I don't think you can learn ANY MA from DVD, unless you have a solid point of reference ( like learning Shotokan bt DVD is you have a BB in Wado-ryu) and some nice sparring partners.
But certain kungs like IP or things that are not HIGHLY technical, yeah, you can.

he he.... this is to funny uz I feel the total opposite. learning an internal art such as IP is way more complex than Shotokan.
I am classically trained in okinawan go ju ryu , (spent 6 years in it) this is where i got my 1st dan under victor vega student in NYC and used to make fun of my friend who held 3rd dan in funakoshi's style and thier forms where a joke, the BB forms were so simple, jodan uke, , gay dan uke, slide up niko dachi, slide back zenkutsu dachi slide back chudan uke repeat... I was like thats your most complex form?

I was really unimpressed, I did see the simplcity in it and he was a good figther and could kick very well but thought it was too simple.

[IronWeasel]

it is available starting today

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280566411840



So...according to these remarks on Youtube,

your training comes from Doo Wai and James Lacy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqD0IecjOjk&feature=related

[Syn7]

it is available starting today

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280566411840



is this you on youtube???

tao123chi
2 years ago this is the goldenbell from the wai lineage. as taught by g.m. lacy. it obviously works.eplain more about what you mean please, as i am a student and want to learn

[teetsao]

yes that is me.
that is one of the first iron body forms i learned. my teacher taught me another one. he told me either one would work,it depends on the technique.
are you sending this video out to defame me???
i am proud of this video and my forearms have grone increasingly stronger.
now show the rest of our videos.

[Syn7]

are you sending this video out to defame me???

nope... im not the one that posted the vid, somebody else did and refered to the comments so i went and looked... i was pretty sure it was you, but i didnt wanna assume it was you, so i asked... theres alot of talk about lacy, so it stuck out to me... you learned directly from lacy??? ever met doo wai???

[EarthDragon]

OK wait a minute............ as far as I know Bak Fu Pai material was bought from lacy, and are not instuctional nor internal is this Doo wai ? so Teet do you have permission to reproduce these for profit? are you a student of Jim's this is getting complicated. pleae clear up the confusion, thanks

[EarthDragon]

5801

5802

here is a pic of me and my students with Shifu Ray from the dragon gate sanctuary in Honolulu Hawaii, and another one of him performing a IP technique at my school last month, notice the outline of the bone...

[EarthDragon]

5803 another pic

[IronWeasel]

yes that is me.
that is one of the first iron body forms i learned. my teacher taught me another one. he told me either one would work,it depends on the technique.
are you sending this video out to defame me???
i am proud of this video and my forearms have grone increasingly stronger.
now show the rest of our videos.



I linked to the vid, just to reference the comments below, regarding the source of the training. I don't mean to defame anyone. You are on a Youtube video....some people might see it. :)

Anyway, I was surprised to see Doo Wai mentioned, as he is somewhat of a controversial figure due to his... public persona.

[Syn7]

is this dvd based on what you learned from lacy? or from another teacher? or did somebody in your group bring it from a different art they trained? i checked ur website and i notice that you guys all have different backgrounds... so this dvd, are we learning doo wai palm thru lacy? and are you a student of lacy directly or a student of one of his students? did you learn in person or via his video exchange program???

[Bruce Leroy]

Hi Everyone:
I've been watching this thread, if you watch all the You tube Vids, you'll see who his Teacher is. He's a Ng Family stylist, and is pictured in his Jow book with his Teacher, (GREAT book BTW!).
Has he picked up other things in his Journey? So what. At Least he can demonstrate
his Iron Palm instead of Talking about it, like so many other "Experts" on here. Thousands of posts under your Sigs? Geez, try training instead of trying to be the Kung Fu Police !!!!
EarthDragon, you state in a old post that you were TAUGHT Iron Palm by Grays stop student. Later you state this person was trained by you in your school???? Which is it?Do i need to Post these here?
Do YOU have permission to tell Tales? As you see, Other people can Question you as well.
Back to Training, You guys that apparently do nothing else but sleep on your keyboard have at this <Yawn> nit picking. or better yet, lets see YOUR breaking skill, I just read T-A-L-K!!!! Bruce

[EarthDragon]

LOL OK bruce leroy, you know what they say about trolls...
you cant possibly come on here with 5 posts and not be questioned about your alias what fake name your using this time ? come on this is KFO oldest trick.:D

[teetsao]

bruceleroy;thanx for the backing.
its ok. guys,lets not argue.
ok , my teacher is rick pickens, the iron palm material on the dvd come from rick and his teachings.
the iron body form you saw demoed on youtube come from james p. lacy. i have had contact with jim for over 4 years now. we have a pretty good friendship. he has some pretty good material,and some pretty not good material,just like anything else,you have to pick and choose. my iron palm came from rick and his teachings. i am not embarresed to say i have some material from lacy, he is an iron palm expert and has alot of good formlas.
the iron body form i do now comes from ng family style,and is the best iron shirt form i have ever used. my teacher has the best iron shirt i have ever seen. hhe actually has the "pearls" under his skin that you can physically feel. his fascia has thickened and made the most amazing shirt i have seen. this is the material that will be shown on the upcoming iron body dvd.
i have no material from lacy that i will be selling or teaching,it is for my personal use, and if oyu ask lacy about me and the material of his i demonstrate, he will say he is proud of me.

[bawang]

u train karate and ur iron palm comes from bak fu pai james lacy and u train for jesus
lol

[teetsao]

bawang;can you read english??? if so read the post above.
why has this thread been reduced to this?? you seem to come on here everytime and try to reduce threads to this.
yes i train in "shuri" okinawan te, ng family kung fu, gracie jiu jitsu and kali from a student of dan inosanto.
www.threeriversacademy.com
and i am proud of all the material i have learned. i am not a martial arts snob, i think i can learn from anything out there,and they all have uses if they are legitamate.

[teetsao]

this is a much better video of our daily training,sans some of the form work and conditioning are omitted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Nm7GFjS2E

[Dr.Harut]

Again Bak Fu Pai ?..LOL...the man says he's from another system, watch the dvd and then put your comments

[teetsao]

actually that was "sanchin" from the hopei white crane influence of shuri te ,traditioanl okinawan te.
does bak fu pai have something similar??

[TAO YIN]

Teetsao,

Congratulations on your production. And you are going to be working on some Iron Body material too? Give me a holler about that for sure. I hope that your productions are successful and benefit the martial arts community. Cheers!

[Drake]

u train karate and ur iron palm comes from bak fu pai james lacy and u train for jesus
lol

Sometimes Bawang always getting the win becomes old... I want to win sometimes.

[mooyingmantis]

Teetsao,
Excellent new YouTube clip! It is great to see another group that is not afraid to mix old and new training methods.
I plan on purchasing your video in the near future.

[Dragonzbane76]

Sometimes Bawang always getting the win becomes old... I want to win sometimes.

bawang will always win, it's the way of things. I have accepted it, so should you. :p

[Faruq]

bruceleroy;thanx for the backing.
its ok. guys,lets not argue.
ok , my teacher is rick pickens, the iron palm material on the dvd come from rick and his teachings.
the iron body form you saw demoed on youtube come from james p. lacy. i have had contact with jim for over 4 years now. we have a pretty good friendship. he has some pretty good material,and some pretty not good material,just like anything else,you have to pick and choose.

Yeah, it seems Lacy learned one of the iron palm systems from a teacher that seems to work pretty good, but wasn't interested in learning the actual kung fu from the guy. Or at least it looks like he does all his kung fu with kempo posture. I dunno. Cuz really who am I to say though. But anyway Teetsao, nice breaks, bro! Nice!

[hungheikwan]

I'm really enjoying this thread - some great posts, concerning many aspects of martial training. I have a question, though...whenever Damian's last name pops up in a message, certain letters are obscured by asterisks. I understand censoring certain "offensive" words, but are the letters "dee", "oh", "arh" and "kay" really that inflammatory? Thanks again for an educational and philosophical thread.

[EarthDragon]

hung, LOL i have noticed that as well, my only guess is the sensor picks up a phrase or groups of letters and automatically thinks they are inappropriate like **** **** and **** all of which are not bad or curse words but it sees them as such go figure, you can cut and paste any pic you want though..

[bawang]

i like dale duglas breaking video with no spacer no bulsh1t on youtube. i respect dat

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dale's clips are good, Sifu Miller is another one that has some very good clips.
My fav will always be "mutant hand" guy from China.

[EarthDragon]

I didnt see much of a difference with dales, daminans, newberry's or teetsao's the truth of the mater is none of them are using spaces or lifting the slab or any thing like that so all to me are quality breaks..

please note you get get poorly mixed block from any concrete manufacturer.

If the mix is too sandy or too much silica they reject them and sell them as defective, but you would never know this, unless you bought the block yourself....disclainer not saying these guys are doing that , just wanted to point that out.

[Dale Dugas]

I like to use granite chip blocks that you can get up here in New England.

They seem to be harder than just plain concrete blocks.

All the real people can break and can demo it and have no problem with showing people video of the breaks or actually breaking in front of people.

People that talk about it, and never show video of themselves breaking have something to hide.

Thanks for the kind words.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I am interested to see videos of anybody breaking more than 4 blocks without spacers.

If anybody has the links. Also compared to the breaks at the world breaking association much of this stuff is tame. No offense to anybody.

But those guys are power breaking. Surely what many of us are calling advanced is still just beginners level stuff. EG: is breaking a single or double block after a year of training advanced ?

I guess if you are on the receiving end it will feel like it.

Teetsao how much to get your video in New Zealand ?

I have given Dale a peep at my book and also Rick Faraci. Will make it available shortly. They seemed to find some value in it.

But my book is more useful to beginners I feel.

Also I am not religious so if you diss my book I will swear at you :D

You can search on youtube.
The chinese guy does some good stuff, as does Sifu Miller.

[TenTigers]

anyone have any clips of someone with a slighter frame doing these breaks? Most of you guys are pretty large framed, big boned, meaty guys, with hands like hams and wrists thicker than my legs. What about a guy with lighter bone structure?
Any women doing this?
-and by women, I don't mean Kossak olympic weightlifters...

[TenTigers]

Dale in a kilt does NOT count, so don't even start!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here you go:
After the mutant hand guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulXzfJq3Dd0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy7IkL44Yrc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYV26bb5A7Y

Steven Hamp had a video of a 13 year old girl doing a break too, but I don't think it is online anymore.

Hey, found it:
http://www.noweightsworkout.com/exercises/streaming/Haley_bb.wmv

[teetsao]

i only weigh 175lb, and only 5 foot 7.
i am kinda slight built guy.
gareth; as far as i know 4 unspaced 2x8x16s is the most i have ever seen,and only twice and i would imagine 5 is the limit. the human body has limits. the world breaking associtation uses spacers and big ones at that. i have never tried it, but my friends and i have decided to try some spaced breaking to see what it is like. i feel it will be a waste of time and money but we will never know til we try. i have seen some of the demos where they break in to the teens' of numbers of bricks in a stack. i feel it is a trick,or i guess more like physics and all you need is practice to do it because of the spacers.
unspaced is the only way to break and 2x8x16s is the material to use unless you are using red building bricks or coconuts or doing 3" bloocks or 4" blocks. this is why no one has been seen to do more than 3 or 4 on youtube,because it is legitamate and not easy. advanced is shortening your srtike till all you do is lay your hand on the block,vibrate and it breaks. also doing unsupported breaks and flat,i mean really flat on the ground breaks. this is also the begining of advanced training.
steve hamp is breaking 2x4x16 "splits" you can lean your weight on one and it will break. when you cut them in half they are very easy to break. we started witht these,but as you can see"a 12 year old girl can do them".

[PlumDragon]

anyone have any clips of someone with a slighter frame doing these breaks?Check out the videos I have posted--Im only 5 ft 9 and only weigh 150 lbs...

[Syn7]

can anyone here throw a needle thru glass??? i like that one...

[teetsao]

no, but that is freakin awsome. those monks have serious skills. unfourtunately i will be 40 next year,so i will only be able to go so far in my training, but hey,so far so good. my teacher is very good and still has alot to share with me yet. so who knows how far i can go.

[EarthDragon]

ice brekers use spacers,

[mooyingmantis]

Salty water frozen into large blocks = very easily broken material.

[IronWeasel]

i only weigh 175lb, and only 5 foot 7.
i am kinda slight built guy.
gareth; as far as i know 4 unspaced 2x8x16s is the most i have ever seen,and only twice and i would imagine 5 is the limit. the human body has limits. the world breaking associtation uses spacers and big ones at that. i have never tried it, but my friends and i have decided to try some spaced breaking to see what it is like. i feel it will be a waste of time and money but we will never know til we try. i have seen some of the demos where they break in to the teens' of numbers of bricks in a stack. i feel it is a trick,or i guess more like physics and all you need is practice to do it because of the spacers.
unspaced is the only way to break and 2x8x16s is the material to use unless you are using red building bricks or coconuts or doing 3" bloocks or 4" blocks. this is why no one has been seen to do more than 3 or 4 on youtube,because it is legitamate and not easy. advanced is shortening your srtike till all you do is lay your hand on the block,vibrate and it breaks. also doing unsupported breaks and flat,i mean really flat on the ground breaks. this is also the begining of advanced training.
steve hamp is breaking 2x4x16 "splits" you can lean your weight on one and it will break. when you cut them in half they are very easy to break. we started witht these,but as you can see"a 12 year old girl can do them".



It's good to see some vids out there. It's nice to see that someone is at least trying. I'm no herbalist, but if these formulas work well, then that's very generous of you to put your time into compiling the collection.

A few friendly critiques, if I may:


I noticed that everyone likes to break their blocks with a towel or phonebook for padding. Go ahead and try those same breaks with just your hand and the blocks.

I will occasionally wrap my thumb knuckle with a piece of tape or a bandaid, as I have the bad habit of sticking my thumb out (hsing i style) and cutting it on the broken concrete edge.

As you progress over time, try breaking four or five blocks.

The 'splits' as you call them break the same as 2x8x16's.

Spacers are for fooling the uneducated crowd. Don't waste the blocks.

Placing your hand on a block and breaking it with a vibration? hmmm... I'd have to see that one in person.

Good luck in your training.

[teetsao]

ironweisal; the 2x4x16s do not break the same, they are much,much weaker, the space is reduced so the break point is kess, try it. 2x4x16s' are very simple. try 1, you can place yoour body weigt oon it and lean on it and it will break. we have done it.
beleive me we want to break 4 or 5 but i aint' easy ,try it.
unspaced breaking is the true test try it for yourself. please video and post your results.'we want to get together with a bunch of other iron palmists and compare breaking. we are thinking about doing this next oct., 2011. we want to get totgether wih all our bro. and compare,share and film.
let me know if you would be interested in this.

[mooyingmantis]

Just purchased the DVD. I'm looking forward to receiving it! :)

[teetsao]

thank you so much for your support.
2 others from the site have purchesed the dvd and will be receiving them soon. we sold a copy to a guy in thailand who has been following us on youtube and on here.
i dont think you will be disappointed. if i can help you or answer any questions please feel free to ask.

[mooyingmantis]

I am most interested in comparing it to the training I received. I will post a review after I view the video.

[mooyingmantis]

Well, I returned home from work to find my DVD had arrived! Imagine my disappointment when I found out the DVD was BLANK!!!!
I thought maybe I had done something wrong, so I tried it again. Still nothing! :mad:
VERY DISAPPOINTED at a bland DVD for $45!!!

[bawang]

LOL lolololol

[Rolling Fists]

Does the DVD and packaging look professional or is it the homemade variety?

[teetsao]

well it is pretty professional.
we are just regular guys with regular equipment,but pretty good skills. we are selling info not pretty packages, but we did our best to make it look professional.

[teetsao]

mooyingmantis: you are the first to have a prob. with the dvd. we have shipped to thailand,U.K. and no one has had a prob.
please try it again. did you use a dvd player or computer.
you will receive another one immediately.

[David Jamieson]

Hmmmm I definitely agree about the human body, but I suspect that there are some that can break more than this without damage.

I will investigate. The famous picture of the General breaking 16 or is it 12 Chinese bricks. I wonder how many he could do with our concrete.

But the General was one of the best martial artists in China at the time.

Then there are dudes that break slabs of ice too. Very big slabs of ice.

http://www.ironpowerpalm.com/images/ironpalm.jpg

"The General"

This is Ku Yu Cheong. I believe he served in the KMT. I don't think he was a general.

[teetsao]

rolling fists: here is the link to the packaging so you can judge for yourself
http://site.theironlotussociety.com/Products.html

testimonials for the dvd will be on the site starting tonight.

[Shima Wara]

Richard,


We apologize for the mistake. Not everything can go right 100% of the time. We are shipping you out a new one that I tested myself in a DVD player, Xbox, and my computer. You will have no problem with this copy.


Jason Bartlett from the forum purchased our DVD and here is what he had to say when he received it.

The DVD came yesterday. Thanks for sending it out so quickly, it covered the material very well. I was curious how others out there have their IP programs set up, I couldn't be happier with the DVD other than one detail. Is there a way to get the jow recipes with the Chinese characters for the herbs included? The herbalists I use out here read Chinese.

Thanks again,

Jason

Obviously a satisfied customer.

We do appreciate your support, but we are not a major production company with third party distributors that pump these things out and ship them for us. We are just regular guys trying to spread some helpful information to the iron palm community. People make mistakes, and we will rectify ours, rest assured.

Thank you for your support.

[Rolling Fists]

rolling fists: here is the link to the packaging so you can judge for yourself
http://site.theironlotussociety.com/Products.html

testimonials for the dvd will be on the site starting tonight.

I was simply wondering how the DVD was produced. Thanks for the info teetsao.

[Shima Wara]

I was simply wondering how the DVD was produced. Thanks for the info teetsao.


We do produce it ourselves, but we try to be as professional as possible. We use a heavy grade paper for the jacket and we design and print the DVD labels ourselves. But our art was designed by an art professor and everything is given in a regular sized DVD case. We are attempting to be as professional as possible, but honestly, we dont have all the equipment we would like to. Hopefully we can sell enough to purchase better equipment and continue putting out information for the martial arts community. Thank you for your interest.:)

[mooyingmantis]

The packaging looks very nice.

Teetsao,
I tried the DVD in both my computer's DVD player (Toshiba DVD player) and the regular Emerson DVD player connected to my TV. No luck. :(

[teetsao]

you will get another immediately.
your unfourtunate happenstance will also be your fortune,as i will send you a bottle of my "ultra secret,turn your hands to iron over night,herbs picked by a virgin shaolin monk on the highest mountain in the chagbai range,smuggled over up a carrior pigeons butt,i.p. dit da jow".
seriously i am going to send you a bottle of my personal stash jow, the "lotus palms" for your use. again we are sorry for any inconveinance this may have caused you.

[Shima Wara]

The packaging looks very nice.

Teetsao,
I tried the DVD in both my computer's DVD player (Toshiba DVD player) and the regular Emerson DVD player connected to my TV. No luck. :(


I am so sorry to hear that did not work. I will send you a new one tomorrow as soon as i get up and I will e-mail you the new tracking info. I tested it myself, so it should work all places. Thank you again for your support, I promise we are not trying to rip you off or anything.

[mooyingmantis]

Richard,

We appreciate your support but I am a bit underwhelmed that you have villified us as though we sold you a false product or sent you the blank on purpose. No one told you that we would not get you your working copy immediately. Additionally, we did not do this on purpose. The simple fact is, that accidents happen and we have jumped on this immediately. We were never even contacted about the problem, and we are not selling people blank DVDs, yours was simply a mix up.

Thanks again,

Jason


Jason,
How did you get vilified from this:

Well, I returned home from work to find my DVD had arrived! Imagine my disappointment when I found out the DVD was BLANK!!!!
I thought maybe I had done something wrong, so I tried it again. Still nothing!
VERY DISAPPOINTED at a blank DVD for $45!!!

I made no accusations. I do not know any of you, so I have no ax to grind.
However, I wasn't satisfied. So, I posted this here to see if anyone else might have had this happen to them. Yes, mistakes do happen. I will gladly send you back the DVD that you sent me. That way you will know that I am not just trying to cheat you out of a copy.

Teetsao,
That is very kind of you to offer the jow! Good customer service! :) However, I have a fresh batch that I made and have had sitting for about eight months. So, it really don't need it. But again, that was a very kind offer!

[Shima Wara]

Jason,
How did you get vilified from this:

Well, I returned home from work to find my DVD had arrived! Imagine my disappointment when I found out the DVD was BLANK!!!!
I thought maybe I had done something wrong, so I tried it again. Still nothing!
VERY DISAPPOINTED at a blank DVD for $45!!!

I made no accusations. I do not know any of you, so I have no ax to grind.
However, I wasn't satisfied. So, I posted this here to see if anyone else might have had this happen to them. Yes, mistakes do happen. I will gladly send you back the DVD that you sent me. That way you will know that I am not just trying to cheat you out of a copy.

My name is Bill, Jason was a purchaser of our DVD. I apologize for the mix up there.

I apologize if it sounded as though we doubted you, as that is not what I meant. Let me clarify. What I was attmepting to say was that we were unaware of the problem initially and the post made it sound as though you paid for a blank DVD and that is that. We are remedying the situation immediatlely and do not believe you to be cheating us out of a DVD. We made a mistake and will make it right. But we feel we deserve a fair chance at rectifying our mistake as well. I understand your frustration here, but others will take it as a sign that we are ripping people off intentionally or that our information is not quality if it is not explained that we are making it right immediately and that this was a simple mix up. Please understand that we have families we are trying to support and we take these issues very seriously as they affect our lives directly. We WILL make it right, but please, we are trying our best and simply made a mistake. We did not mean to inconvenience you and are attemtping to solve the problem. I meant no offense, i simply wished to address the fact that we are trying to remedy the problem and that we are not trying to cheat you or anything. I apologize if my words were unclear or seemed harsh in tone. In fact i took that portion of my post off because i felt as though it could be taken the wrong way very easily over a text based environment. That wording was my mistake and I owe you an apology. Thank you for your continued support.

[mooyingmantis]

Bill,
No harm, no foul. :)
From what I have seen on YouTube I have no doubt that you guys are the real deal. I am sure the DVD will be worth the wait. BTW, I received your e-mail that you had sent it out Monday and I received it today (Wednesday). That was very fast delivery. :)

[Shima Wara]

Bill,
No harm, no foul. :)
From what I have seen on YouTube I have no doubt that you guys are the real deal. I am sure the DVD will be worth the wait. BTW, I received your e-mail that you had sent it out Monday and I received it today (Wednesday). That was very fast delivery. :)


I am glad you received it so quickly. I will do everything in my power to make sure you receive a working copy, equally as fast. I am sending it out tomorrow and my hope is that it will arrive to you on Saturday. We tried to make it as comprehensive as we possibly could. I am sure you will not be disappointed with the information therein. Thank You again for all your support and kind words.

[mooyingmantis]

Arrived home today and received the second DVD in the mail (I sent the first one back over the weekend). I popped it into the DVD player and voila it worked!

I watched the entire thing in one sitting. It was excellent! Well worth the wait and a bargain for the money.

This DVD condensed the training that I received from three different teachers and a lot of self-experimentation over the years into one easy to understand format.

At $45 the DVD is a steal. I know martial arts friends who spent literally hundreds of dollars to learn the same material.

In fact, I was so impressed with the material presented that I will be making this DVD required viewing material for any student who desires to start our iron palm training.

I was also pleasantly surprised to find that they had included a few traditional dit da jow recipes at the end of the tape.

I wish this resource had been available forty years ago when I started my martial arts training.

Great job guys!

[teetsao]

thank you richard.
that pretty much says it all. we tried our best to put as much info on 1 dvd as possible.

[teetsao]

one thing richard. did you see anything on the dvd that you did not already know? was there any new material to you??

[Shima Wara]

Arrived home today and received the second DVD in the mail (I sent the first one back over the weekend). I popped it into the DVD player and voila it worked!

I watched the entire thing in one sitting. It was excellent! Well worth the wait and a bargain for the money.

This DVD condensed the training that I received from three different teachers and a lot of self-experimentation over the years into one easy to understand format.

At $45 the DVD is a steal. I know martial arts friends who spent literally hundreds of dollars to learn the same material.

In fact, I was so impressed with the material presented that I will be making this DVD required viewing material for any student who desires to start our iron palm training.

I was also pleasantly surprised to find that they had included a few traditional dit da jow recipes at the end of the tape.

I wish this resource had been available forty years ago when I started my martial arts training.

Great job guys!

Richard,

Thank you for all your kind words. We are thrilled to hear that you enjoyed the DVD and are honored that you would use it as required viewing for future iron palmists. We really tried to get all the information that we could on this one and get as complete a training regimen to the public as we possibly could. This affirms that we are on the right track to do so. Thank you for all your support and we hope to be able to continue putting quality information out to the martial arts community.

Bill

[mooyingmantis]

one thing richard. did you see anything on the dvd that you did not already know? was there any new material to you??

Yes, I learned different qigong exercises than was demonstrated on the tape. Though the ones demonstrated on the tape are equally valid and would certainly accomplish the same goals.

The vibrating palm training was a new twist and I hope to see more of this in the future. Hint, hint!

I especially liked that you train iron palm via a hanging bag as well as the typical bag lying on a stand. I think that is very important!

My friends and training family will tell you that I am a very nit-picky person when it comes to training. So, I viewed the DVD with a very critical eye and can honestly say that I didn't see or hear anything with which I could disagree. You peeps are right on target in my opinion.