Hit the Back of the head!

[RenDaHai]

I vaguely remember seeing an MMA match where one of the guys kneed the other guy in the back of the head during grappling. He was disqualified but it did finish the other guy off in one....Can't remember who it was, think it was a big match.

ANyway, Seems like a great tactic in reality. So i put it to you, given the standard positions in grappling (assuming you are in the worser position), what are good methods to use to hit someone in the back of the head, or to hit the back of their head against the floor (or something)?

I know we can't use it in training or matches, but like biting, gauging, clawing, hair pulling, head butting, finger breaking and nut smashing it seems like a good trick to have up your sleeve if your the lesser grappler.

[MightyB]

I vaguely remember seeing an MMA match where one of the guys kneed the other guy in the back of the head during grappling. He was disqualified but it did finish the other guy off in one....Can't remember who it was, think it was a big match.

ANyway, Seems like a great tactic in reality. So i put it to you, given the standard positions in grappling (assuming you are in the worser position), what are good methods to use to hit someone in the back of the head, or to hit the back of their head against the floor (or something)?

I know we can't use it in training or matches, but like biting, gauging, clawing, hair pulling, head butting, finger breaking and nut smashing it seems like a good trick to have up your sleeve if your the lesser grappler.

It's ok to think about and have in your bag of tricks but it would only work against novices and wannabes. A good grappler doesn't shoot from ten feet out. He's in tight, usually sets you up with a distraction like a jab or a head slap, and shoots with his head up and hips below his shoulders. He get's low by bending the knees (duck walk through). His head is up to prevent the guillotene choke and they usually place their head tight against you so you are at an awkward angle to strike.

[MightyB]

Watch Tito's head and hips when he demonstrates a good takedown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abhBqc0n6bc

[David Jamieson]

A little useful information:

http://www.med.wayne.edu/diagradiology/anatomy_modules/axialpages/Overview.html

The base of the skull is a vulnerable area on everyone regardless of your technique.

Find that sweet spot and it's lights out for the recipient.

[RenDaHai]

@mightyb

No I mean actually striking during grappling, not just during the shoot. So like while you are both on the floor in whatever position and you strike him in the back of the head. Not many people would let you do it during a tackle. This happened in a proper match with experianced guys. They had both been on the floor for a few minutes then he kneed.

[MightyB]

@mightyb

No I mean actually striking during grappling, not just during the shoot. So like while you are both on the floor in whatever position and you strike him in the back of the head. Not many people would let you do it during a tackle. This happened in a proper match with experianced guys. They had both been on the floor for a few minutes then he kneed.

It should work then as long as you're in a good position to strike the guy. Like DJ's post - hit it and lights out.

[RenDaHai]

Yeah, thats what I think,

But like, what are those good positions? Has anyone thought of deliberately getting yourself into a position that may not be an advantage, but does give your knee a shot at the back of their head, or an elbow or something?

Also are blunt strikes much better to the back of the head? (like is the knee best?)
I assume blunt is better...

[MightyB]

Yeah, thats what I think,

But like, what are those good positions? Has anyone thought of deliberately getting yourself into a position that may not be an advantage, but does give your knee a shot at the back of their head, or an elbow or something?

Also are blunt strikes much better to the back of the head? (like is the knee best?)
I assume blunt is better...

Side Control to Small Package (Cobra) is probably the best, or you could force the guy to turtle face down and go into a modified upper corner hold...

[Knifefighter]

A little useful information:

http://www.med.wayne.edu/diagradiology/anatomy_modules/axialpages/Overview.html

The base of the skull is a vulnerable area on everyone regardless of your technique.

Find that sweet spot and it's lights out for the recipient.


Strikes to the back of the head are one of the lower percentage moves you can do.

[RenDaHai]

Ok, from side control,

That sounds like a good place to start.

Don't know how to practice this well.... maybe very slowly trying from every position to see if my knee can reach and just touch the target...

[David Jamieson]

Strikes to the back of the head are one of the lower percentage moves you can do.

pretty much. I mean, it's not like it's a big enchilada hanging there.

the person pretty much is compromised in some way by the time you get to be able to land one in there.

[Knifefighter]

pretty much. I mean, it's not like it's a big enchilada hanging there.

the person pretty much is compromised in some way by the time you get to be able to land one in there.

Hitting someone in the back of the head is probably the hardest way to try to KO someone. You can see lots of examples of full on strikes to the back of the head with both fists and elbows in the old vale tudo fights from Brazil. Not a single knockout occurred from those.

[David Jamieson]

Hitting someone in the back of the head is probably the hardest way to try to KO someone. You can see lots of examples of full on strikes to the back of the head with both fists and elbows in the old vale tudo fights from Brazil. Not a single knockout occurred from those.

what are you bored? Looking for an argument? Poking around the thread bin looking for something to chew? lol :rolleyes:

[Lokhopkuen]

Strikes to the back of the head are one of the lower percentage moves you can do.

Under certain circumstance (shooting for the legs is one of them) the rear base of the skull is vulnerable as are the shoulder blades.

[Knifefighter]

Under certain circumstance (shooting for the legs is one of them) the rear base of the skull is vulnerable as are the shoulder blades.

Umm, no... pretty much all that does is give the guy going for the takedown a better opportunity to finish the takedown.

About the only time you can do serious damage is to have the back with the hooks in, using elbows (see other thread of vid of guy getting ko'd with elbows)... and even then, you've really got to do some hard pounding.

[San Soo Sifu]

I vaguely remember seeing an MMA match where one of the guys kneed the other guy in the back of the head during grappling. He was disqualified but it did finish the other guy off in one... Can't remember who it was, think it was a big match.

I believe you are thinking of Frank Shamrock vs. Renzo Gracie. Renzo definitely played it up for the referee, just like in a Soccer match being tripped by the opposing team; but it did rattle his brain-casing unit a bit.

[Lucas]

I believe you are thinking of Frank Shamrock vs. Renzo Gracie. Renzo definitely played it up for the referee, just like in a Soccer match being tripped by the opposing team; but it did rattle his brain-casing unit a bit.


yep thats the match. and ya he played it up big time, cry baby. from his repsonse it was certain un deniable fight ender. but i personally believe he was being a *****

didnt he act like he couldnt see right or was blurred vision or something?

[Lee Chiang Po]

You see, that is the thing here. When you are fighting in the ring, you are protected by fight rules and you have a referee watching everything you do. So you can go into someone low and fully expect that he can do nothing about it. If he does he gets disqualified. You win. The most common way a person would attempt to fight with me would be to just use boxing methods. It is the most common way of all with somewhat untrained individuals. Then there were the ones that would try to take you down. I am short, so to get under me you have to drop down real low. That is suicide. I simply slap the back of the head and drive you down to the floor on your face, drop into your back with both knees with all my weight, then slide them down on each side under the arm pits with my feet in front of the shoulders, which pins the arms while I put my a$$ on your head and crush your face into the floor, all the while I am using the heel of my palm to seperate the vertebrae in your back. You will not get up on your own. And all this against a resisting opponent. If you have never had someone palm slap you in the head you are in for a great surprise. If you don't believe me, just have someone do it and see for yourself. Not a sissy slap, but a slap like he means it.

[Knifefighter]

You see, that is the thing here. When you are fighting in the ring, you are protected by fight rules and you have a referee watching everything you do. So you can go into someone low and fully expect that he can do nothing about it. If he does he gets disqualified. You win. The most common way a person would attempt to fight with me would be to just use boxing methods. It is the most common way of all with somewhat untrained individuals. Then there were the ones that would try to take you down. I am short, so to get under me you have to drop down real low. That is suicide. I simply slap the back of the head and drive you down to the floor on your face, drop into your back with both knees with all my weight, then slide them down on each side under the arm pits with my feet in front of the shoulders, which pins the arms while I put my a$$ on your head and crush your face into the floor, all the while I am using the heel of my palm to seperate the vertebrae in your back. You will not get up on your own. And all this against a resisting opponent. If you have never had someone palm slap you in the head you are in for a great surprise. If you don't believe me, just have someone do it and see for yourself. Not a sissy slap, but a slap like he means it.

Been there, done that, slaps, fists, elbows, sticks... zero effect except to dump you on your ass and then choke you out.

[David Jamieson]

In the video shown, the guy is knocked out by strikes to the back of the head. :)

[Knifefighter]

In the video shown, the guy is knocked out by strikes to the back of the head. :)

Notice the taking of the back with the hooks in. Also, notice how the guy had to land blow upon blow before finally getting the ko. Also, notice the guy on the bottom had no clue how to escape the back mount.

Completely different from trying to land blows from the front off a takedown attempt, which will usually get you dumped on your ass.

[Syn7]

in a real fight i had a guy shooting on me against a wall, i dropped two elbows to his spine after i was stabalized in my defence... it put him on his knees which set up the rest of what followed... mainly knees to the face...


with a serious northsouth elbown you can hurt somebody pretty permenatly hitting the base of the neck... there arent any guarantees but if you get it right it can be devastating... personally, its not my approach, but it could work for someone... also, i have personally delivered strikes while defending takedowns on and off the wall... but i wouldnt aim for the back of the head anymore than i'd aim for the forehead...

[Syn7]

Notice the taking of the back with the hooks in. Also, notice how the guy had to land blow upon blow before finally getting the ko. Also, notice the guy on the bottom had no clue how to escape the back mount.

Completely different from trying to land blows from the front off a takedown attempt, which will usually get you dumped on your ass.

yeah and the shots that hurt him the most were the ones to the right side of his face when the left side was pressed against the ground...

[SoCo KungFu]

Separating vertebrae?

So now your palm shots deliver the force of a high speed car crash do they?

So is there like a book you guys get these ridiculous lines from or do you just like make em up on the fly?

[Syn7]

You see, that is the thing here. When you are fighting in the ring, you are protected by fight rules and you have a referee watching everything you do. So you can go into someone low and fully expect that he can do nothing about it. If he does he gets disqualified. You win. The most common way a person would attempt to fight with me would be to just use boxing methods. It is the most common way of all with somewhat untrained individuals. Then there were the ones that would try to take you down. I am short, so to get under me you have to drop down real low. That is suicide. I simply slap the back of the head and drive you down to the floor on your face, drop into your back with both knees with all my weight, then slide them down on each side under the arm pits with my feet in front of the shoulders, which pins the arms while I put my a$$ on your head and crush your face into the floor, all the while I am using the heel of my palm to seperate the vertebrae in your back. You will not get up on your own. And all this against a resisting opponent. If you have never had someone palm slap you in the head you are in for a great surprise. If you don't believe me, just have someone do it and see for yourself. Not a sissy slap, but a slap like he means it.



and youve done this in a real street fight??? or is this all theory???

i dont think u have a realistic view of how fights really go down... have you ever been in a real fight where as far as you know the guy was gonna keep going till u die if you dont win??? not some schoolyard sh!t where cats get real brave coz they know it will be broken up before it gets too serious... you didnt even mention a sprawl which leads me to believe you have no grappling experience... and how many times have we seen the stand up fighter who says they are so good they dont need takedown defence etc and they last like what? half a round... fish outta water... im not trying to be overly critical and single you out for spite or anything, its just that the way you wrote that speaks volumes to your undrstanding of what its actually like to have an experience wrestler with a brick for a head shoot in with a fast and heavy double... you can hit him in the back of the head all you want but he'll just pick you up and slam you... first thing you do in that situation is defend the takedown, not dish strikes... thats like week one stuff man...