Books on bjj

[KC Elbows]

Any recommended books? Not to replace actual live instruction, but to supplement, that have a good comprehensive and rational presentation of the style? Just curious, thanks.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why not DVD?
Bjj for what? competition? MMA?

[t_niehoff]

Any recommended books? Not to replace actual live instruction, but to supplement, that have a good comprehensive and rational presentation of the style? Just curious, thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Jujitsu-Martial-Arts/dp/0736044043/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285098415&sr=1-1-spell

[MightyB]

I liked this one for the drills: http://www.amazon.com/Championship-Techniques-Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu-Jacques/dp/1931229376/ref=sr_1_15?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285098547&sr=8-15

this one's good: http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Rubber-Guard-Martial-Competition/dp/0977731596/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285098606&sr=8-1

[KC Elbows]

Why not DVD?
Bjj for what? competition? MMA?

MMA and chi retention.

[KC Elbows]

I've got Noguiero's(sp?) book on the guard, and was going to pick up that book on the rubber guard, since there's a copy for next to nothing at the used book store by me(also one on the X guard?).

BTW, if anyone doesn't care for a book and why, that would be helpful, also, I suppose.

DVD's are good, too.

[sanjuro_ronin]

MMA and chi retention.

Anything by Rickson Gracie, LOL !

[MightyB]

I've got Noguiero's(sp?) book on the guard, and was going to pick up that book on the rubber guard, since there's a copy for next to nothing at the used book store by me(also one on the X guard?).

BTW, if anyone doesn't care for a book and why, that would be helpful, also, I suppose.

DVD's are good, too.

I have the Rubber Guard by Eddie Bravo. I really like the progression of the book. It starts with the half guard and works it way systematically up to the rubber guard.

I don't like his extensive expositions on the glory of marijuana - or his exploits with his psycho ex girlfriend - or his essays on musical theory... so, skip the forward.

[BJJ-Blue]

http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Jujitsu-Martial-Arts/dp/0736044043/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285098415&sr=1-1-spell

Renzo Gracie also wrote this one that I recommend as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu-Theory-Technique/dp/1931229082/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1

[Frost]

for the love of god dont get anything from eddie bravo please develop a ground game before attempting his stuff

If you are new anything from matt thornton is your best bet, his way of breaking down basics is the best out there bar none

His tapes should be required watching for everyone new to grappling

For guard work Id reccomend my coaches tapes but dont think you can get his stuff in the states

[KC Elbows]

for the love of god dont get anything from eddie bravo please develop a ground game before attempting his stuff

If you are new anything from matt thornton is your best bet, his way of breaking down basics is the best out there bar none

His tapes should be required watching for everyone new to grappling

For guard work Id reccomend my coaches tapes but dont think you can get his stuff in the states

Are you saying don't get the Bravo stuff because it's not good, or because it would overcomplicate things?

[Frost]

Are you saying don't get the Bravo stuff because it's not good, or because it would overcomplicate things?

His stuff IS overcomplicated and this teaches bad habbits to beginners, people play with the rubber guard and forget about the basics of BJJ, hip movement, framing etc. Its also leads to people even good guys forgetting about the rest of the game, I cant count the number of fighters that my coach has had to retrain coming back from his place

But the basic thing is he is overhyped and hasn't produced any really good grapplers in years, go with guys that produce good grapplers and teach the basics over and over

[KC Elbows]

His stuff IS overcomplicated and this teaches bad habbits to beginners, people play with the rubber guard and forget about the basics of BJJ, hip movement, framing etc. Its also leads to people even good guys forgetting about the rest of the game, I cant count the number of fighters that my coach has had to retrain coming back from his place

But the basic thing is he is overhyped and hasn't produced any really good grapplers in years, go with guys that produce good grapplers and teach the basics over and over

What are your thoughts on Noguiero's book on the guard?

[Frost]

What are your thoughts on Noguiero's book on the guard?

honestly i haven't seen it, but Nogs one of the best there is, and has produced lots of good students...so anything from him would be good

[BJJ-Blue]

His stuff IS overcomplicated and this teaches bad habbits to beginners, people play with the rubber guard and forget about the basics of BJJ, hip movement, framing etc.

This is true about people who are exposed to advanced techniques before being taught the basics. From my experience, the best guys on the mat tend to be the guys who start at Step 1 and learn the basics very well before going onto advanced stuff. The guys who come in and immediately try to learn omaplatas, rolling kneebars, flying armbars, rubber guard, etc do not do nearly as well.

[KC Elbows]

How about good online resources? Just saw some Thornton vids, but the site they were on played twitchy on my computer. Still, cool stuff.

[MightyB]

His stuff IS overcomplicated and this teaches bad habbits to beginners, people play with the rubber guard and forget about the basics of BJJ, hip movement, framing etc. Its also leads to people even good guys forgetting about the rest of the game, I cant count the number of fighters that my coach has had to retrain coming back from his place

But the basic thing is he is overhyped and hasn't produced any really good grapplers in years, go with guys that produce good grapplers and teach the basics over and over

I wouldn't rely too heavily on his stuff, but I didn't hate it nearly as much as you guys. One thing I really liked about his book is the progression of the techniques where as I've bought a couple of other books where the techniques are just all over the place with no reason or logic behind their placement. I don't have nearly as much trouble with his stuff as you're describing as a "beginner" in BJJ, but then again I'm coming in with a lot of years of Judo training as a foundation.

My favorite as a competitor though is the Champion Techniques one I linked to earlier by Machado. A lot of drills, basics, and surprise techniques like setting up the reverse triangle from the guard which no one ever expects.

[MightyB]

How about good online resources? Just saw some Thornton vids, but the site they were on played twitchy on my computer. Still, cool stuff.

Bravo stuff, so the other guys will automatically hate it, but: http://www.youtube.com/user/Submissions101

[MasterKiller]

Or you could just moonlight at another school once in a while and learn it properly...

[Frost]

I wouldn't rely too heavily on his stuff, but I didn't hate it nearly as much as you guys. One thing I really liked about his book is the progression of the techniques where as I've bought a couple of other books where the techniques are just all over the place with no reason or logic behind their placement. I don't have nearly as much trouble with his stuff as you're describing as a "beginner" in BJJ, but then again I'm coming in with a lot of years of Judo training as a foundation.

My favorite as a competitor though is the Champion Techniques one I linked to earlier by Machado. A lot of drills, basics, and surprise techniques like setting up the reverse triangle from the guard which no one ever expects.

i dont hate Bravo, I just think he is overblown and living of a decade old victory, I also think his stuff is not high percentage and not stuff you should be using as your A game.

[chusauli]

An excellent text is:

http://www.amazon.com/Jiu-Jitsu-University-Saulo-Ribeiro/dp/0981504434

But as for DVD's I would say Roy Harris, or his student Roy Dean are superb!

[Three Harmonies]

Nothing better than Benneville and Cartmell's "Passing the Guard." Essential reading IMO.

JAB

[KC Elbows]

Or you could just moonlight at another school once in a while and learn it properly...

I intend to learn it properly, just currently have little time, so I figured I'd do some research and get an idea what to expect, and try to make my resources ones that would be useful once I did start training in it.

[SoCo KungFu]

How about good online resources? Just saw some Thornton vids, but the site they were on played twitchy on my computer. Still, cool stuff.

I like www.lockflow.com
The regular updates they have on techniques are kinda assuming you have a decent base but you can also search the listing for pretty much any technique you can think of, usually with setups and stuff.

[KC Elbows]

BTW, thanks all, very helpful, except Master Killer, who is an angry angry man.:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

BTW, thanks all, very helpful, except Master Killer, who is an angry angry man.:D

But still gave you the best advice, LOL !

[KC Elbows]

Any recommended books? Not to replace actual live instruction, but to supplement, that have a good comprehensive and rational presentation of the style? Just curious, thanks.


But still gave you the best advice, LOL !

Well of course, if I hadn't given myself the advice first!

It's because of modding, before MK was like a cuddly panda, but three months after he started modding, he became hard, like the bony Olson twin.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well of course, if I hadn't given myself the advice first!

It's because of modding, before MK was like a cuddly panda, but three months after he started modding, he became hard, like the bony Olson twin.

You Sir, have the boorish manners of a Yale man !
*walks away singing Fair Harvard*

[MightyB]

Speaking of Roy Harris...

I've always wanted to get his "Brazilian jiu jitsu over 40" DVD even though I'm only 36. The description seemed very solid. Only work high percentage techniques, conserve energy, and don't get hurt. Supposably it focuses on techniques that would keep you competitive with the young guys well into your 40s and 50s.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Speaking of Roy Harris...

I've always wanted to get his "Brazilian jiu jitsu over 40" DVD even though I'm only 36. The description seemed very solid. Only work high percentage techniques, conserve energy, and don't get hurt. Supposably it focuses on techniques that would keep you competitive with the young guys well into your 40s and 50s.

That's sounds intriguing, links?

[t_niehoff]

That's sounds intriguing, links?

Don't bother.

BJJ videos are for the most part useless IMO. The guys who are making them never used them -- they just went to class and trained.

If you want to learn BJJ over 40, do what I did: start in your 40s!

[MightyB]

That's sounds intriguing, links?

http://www.royharris.com/corner/?sec=42&id=1076

[MightyB]

Don't bother.

BJJ videos are for the most part useless IMO. The guys who are making them never used them -- they just went to class and trained.


I like DVDs and the Youtube. It's not that I'm learning everything from them, but after about of year with the same class - I know their game, they know mine, so DVDs help with new techs.

[t_niehoff]

i dont hate Bravo, I just think he is overblown and living of a decade old victory, I also think his stuff is not high percentage and not stuff you should be using as your A game.

He's not living off submitting Royler (the reigning world champ) as a brown belt. While that certainly put him on the map, and proves that he has a tight, solid game (you don't beat Royler with crap and Jean-Jacques doesn't just hand out black belts), the "test" for the 10th Planet game (rubber guard, lockdown, etc.) doesn't rest on Eddie's shoulders but to his students (if Eddie can make it work and no one else can, then how useful is it?).

But he's produced a lot of really solid, good sub grapplers. I've rolled with some 10th Planet guys and Bravo's stuff is top notch and high percentage. It's just that it's not for everyone IMO as it requires a very high degree of flexibility.

[t_niehoff]

I like DVDs and the Youtube. It's not that I'm learning everything from them, but after about of year with the same class - I know their game, they know mine, so DVDs help with new techs.

Makes you wonder how the Gracies, Saulo, Marcello, etc. -- all those people now producing DVDs -- ever got so good without having access to youtube and DVDs, doesn't it? Maybe, just maybe, there is a lesson there.

[MightyB]

Makes you wonder how the Gracies, Saulo, Marcello, etc. -- all those people now producing DVDs -- ever got so good without having access to youtube and DVDs, doesn't it? Maybe, just maybe, there is a lesson there.

LOL :) BJJ is the new WC. We'll have to start a TBJJ forum. We can have lineage wars and everything. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't bother.

BJJ videos are for the most part useless IMO. The guys who are making them never used them -- they just went to class and trained.

If you want to learn BJJ over 40, do what I did: start in your 40s!

Lmao, good point.
I started BJJ in my mid 30's and while my stint in pure BJJ was short lived since I focused more on the MMA part of it, it was fun and a great learning experience.
I recommend that ANYONE looking to be a practical fighter to get at least a year of two of BJJ under their belt.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://www.royharris.com/corner/?sec=42&id=1076

Cool, thanks dude, sounds very interesting and probably worth getting if for nothing else just to see how Roy views the difference between doing BJJ in your 20's and "full time" as opposed to when you are older and it is very "part time".

[KC Elbows]

LOL :) BJJ is the new WC. We'll have to start a TBJJ forum. We can have lineage wars and everything. :p

Someone will have to come up with a second way to transliterate Gracie names before that can happen. Probably two different transliterations. Royce Gracie, Hois Krachie, Hoyce Greisee.

Then, you need to invent a wooden ground fighting dummy, and it needs to be expensive.

From there, you need to adapt the guard to any other possible activity it might not have been meant for. The guard against the machete, the guard against firearms, the guard against forest fires. How to mount multiple opponents, arm bars versus the legs, versus robots, etc.

Then, you need to make it a gang activity, then quit that activity and make it a body sculptor's activity, then make it a German body sculptor's activity, then an activity done in slippers.

From there, you need to start some sort of competitive venue of narrow martial usage, like point continuous shrimping.

[gwa sow]

Someone will have to come up with a second way to transliterate Gracie names before that can happen. Probably two different transliterations. Royce Gracie, Hois Krachie, Hoyce Greisee.

Then, you need to invent a wooden ground fighting dummy, and it needs to be expensive.

From there, you need to adapt the guard to any other possible activity it might not have been meant for. The guard against the machete, the guard against firearms, the guard against forest fires. How to mount multiple opponents, arm bars versus the legs, versus robots, etc.

Then, you need to make it a gang activity, then quit that activity and make it a body sculptor's activity, then make it a German body sculptor's activity, then an activity done in slippers.

From there, you need to start some sort of competitive venue of narrow martial usage, like point continuous shrimping.


lol point continuous shrimping i love that one

[Frost]

He's not living off submitting Royler (the reigning world champ) as a brown belt. While that certainly put him on the map, and proves that he has a tight, solid game (you don't beat Royler with crap and Jean-Jacques doesn't just hand out black belts), the "test" for the 10th Planet game (rubber guard, lockdown, etc.) doesn't rest on Eddie's shoulders but to his students (if Eddie can make it work and no one else can, then how useful is it?).

But he's produced a lot of really solid, good sub grapplers. I've rolled with some 10th Planet guys and Bravo's stuff is top notch and high percentage. It's just that it's not for everyone IMO as it requires a very high degree of flexibility.

really well lets see he has not competed since (well apart from his next match in ADCC when leo viera gave him a master class in guard passing and positional work) in nearly every interview he gives he talks about going back into the next ADCC and submitting royler again...maybe in a super fight...or he will face him in MMA..so on and so on.

IS he a good grappler? yes, are his students lighting up the MMA and grappling world, no, are there much better guys to learn from who do the basics better and produce better students, yes

[Syn7]

i think vids are ok as aids to people who are already somewhat experienced and have the fundamentals down... learn so new subs to try out next time you roll... maybe hear some theory to help your game one way or another...

but as ive said many times already, i do not feel anyone should start with a video or book and i really disagree with learning your fundamentals that way...

they are aids and add ons... records of progress or just a record of the art period... but thats about it... nobody has said anything to swing me away from that opinion... im open to arguments to the contrary and i'll hear anyone out... but so far nada on convincing me otherwise...


did you get my PM KC???

[chusauli]

Cool, thanks dude, sounds very interesting and probably worth getting if for nothing else just to see how Roy views the difference between doing BJJ in your 20's and "full time" as opposed to when you are older and it is very "part time".

I just got the DVD and I think its great. Roy Harris is a great teacher and very articulate and professional. Its certainly worthwhile.

[t_niehoff]

really well lets see he has not competed since


Yeah, he's 40 and has finished with competitions. So what?



(well apart from his next match in ADCC when leo viera gave him a master class in guard passing and positional work)


OK, he was beaten by a top BB. Again, this proves what?



in nearly every interview he gives he talks about going back into the next ADCC and submitting royler again...maybe in a super fight...or he will face him in MMA..so on and so on.


No he doesn't. Certainly Eddie has an attitude that bothers a lot of people (and apparently you).



IS he a good grappler? yes, are his students lighting up the MMA and grappling world, no, are there much better guys to learn from who do the basics better and produce better students, yes

There are lots of really good instructors out there. Eddie has produced some very good competitors both in sub grappling and in MMA (Aoki, Hardy, Einstein, George S., etc.).

[Frost]

Yeah, he's 40 and has finished with competitions. So what?



OK, he was beaten by a top BB. Again, this proves what?



No he doesn't. Certainly Eddie has an attitude that bothers a lot of people (and apparently you).



There are lots of really good instructors out there. Eddie has produced some very good competitors both in sub grappling and in MMA (Aoki, Hardy, Einstein, George S., etc.).

Do you just like to argue for agruements sake? And he retired when he was in his early to mid 30's, straight after the match he talks about all the time

What exactly are you disagreeing with, that his game isnt high percentage for newbies...that their aren't better coaches out there whos stuff is better for people just getting into the game?

He didnt produce Aoki he his BJJ black belt under Naki, Hardy (if you mean Dan Hardy) does not get his game from eddie believe me, people may go to him to get bits of his game but there arent many students out there that started and stayed with him

As for not living on that victory or not talking about it in interview after interview, well lets just say we have a different opinion on that

[m1k3]

The jiujitsu university book mentioned earlier is great. It focuses on defense and position over techniques and submissions. For example the 1st chapter is white belt:survival which cover defensive postures to use to protect yourself when in a bad position, which as a white belt is often. Chapter 2 is blue belt:escapes, how to use those postures to set up high probability escapes and how to escape from the submissions you will see most. Good stuff, especially for the older grappler like me, not you kids in your 30s or 40s. :p

As for Bravo I love his half guard stuff. Again for the older inflexible grappler the half guard sweeps are easier to pull off and half guard is easier to recover.

[KC Elbows]

i think vids are ok as aids to people who are already somewhat experienced and have the fundamentals down... learn so new subs to try out next time you roll... maybe hear some theory to help your game one way or another...

but as ive said many times already, i do not feel anyone should start with a video or book and i really disagree with learning your fundamentals that way...

they are aids and add ons... records of progress or just a record of the art period... but thats about it... nobody has said anything to swing me away from that opinion... im open to arguments to the contrary and i'll hear anyone out... but so far nada on convincing me otherwise...


did you get my PM KC???

Sorry, responded, check your PMs.

[MightyB]

The jiujitsu university book mentioned earlier is great. It focuses on defense and position over techniques and submissions. For example the 1st chapter is white belt:survival which cover defensive postures to use to protect yourself when in a bad position, which as a white belt is often. Chapter 2 is blue belt:escapes, how to use those postures to set up high probability escapes and how to escape from the submissions you will see most. Good stuff, especially for the older grappler like me, not you kids in your 30s or 40s. :p

As for Bravo I love his half guard stuff. Again for the older inflexible grappler the half guard sweeps are easier to pull off and half guard is easier to recover.

I checked out that JiuJitsu University book and I have to say it's definitely on my "buy" list. Unfortunately my kid decided that he wants to play the cello, so my personal "buy" list will have to be deferred for quite some time.

[KC Elbows]

I checked out that JiuJitsu University book and I have to say it's definitely on my "buy" list. Unfortunately my kid decided that he wants to play the cello, so my personal "buy" list will have to be deferred for quite some time.

Cello, ouch. Beautiful instrument, expensive and beautiful instrument.

Hope your cello loan goes through.:D