First WESTERN guy to teach WCK?

[LSWCTN1]

Does anyone know who the first westerner to teach wing chun was?

The earliest that I know of is 1971, I believe.

I do know that Alan Lamb was the first westerner who was VTAA certified

[t_niehoff]

My bet would be Jesse Glover, Bruce's first student and training partner. Although Bruce asked him not to call what he was teaching WCK -- and Bruce himself didn't call what he was teaching WCK -- it was essentially WCK.

[LSWCTN1]

My bet would be Jesse Glover, Bruce's first student and training partner. Although Bruce asked him not to call what he was teaching WCK -- and Bruce himself didn't call what he was teaching WCK -- it was essentially WCK.

Good point, would that be before '71?

Also, let me change the question slightly ...

The first westerner to teach the FULL system?

[CFT]

Teaching independently or as an instructor in the school?

[t_niehoff]

Good point, would that be before '71?

Also, let me change the question slightly ...

The first westerner to teach the FULL system?

I think Jesse was teaching in the very early 60s.

I understand you to mean who was the first westerner to learn the entire curriculum of WCK and then teach it.

My POV is that WCK isn't the curriculum but a skill (and you don't need the "entire curriculum" to learn that skill). Lots of people have the curriculum but very few have learned the skill.

[LSWCTN1]

I think Jesse was teaching in the very early 60s.

I understand you to mean who was the first westerner to learn the entire curriculum of WCK and then teach it.

My POV is that WCK isn't the curriculum but a skill (and you don't need the "entire curriculum" to learn that skill). Lots of people have the curriculum but very few have learned the skill.

I agree :o

to an extent...

However, without the entire curriculum you couldn't learn the entire skill. You could, however, still be extremely effective with what you do have


Teaching independently or as an instructor in the school?
their own school I guess? Although I would be delighted to hear of assistant teachers too...

[TenTigers]

I trained (briefly) with Alan Lamb, in his basement. That had to be in '77.

[CFT]

Seems like sifu Barry Lee of WSLVT could have been teaching small groups in Australia in 1974/75. Definitely '76.

http://www.vingtsun.net.au/BLVTMAA%20The%20Machine.htm

Perhaps bennyvt or shawchemical can provide some more details?

[LSWCTN1]

I'm sure John Darwen was teaching under Joseph Cheng in 71

think that Alan Lamb was not long after in the UK too...

Any earlier?

[CFT]

Going by the Chinese diaspora, you'd think it would be somewhere in N. America (Canada or USA).

[Wu Wei Wu]

Jesse Glover started teaching around 1962/63 and continues to this day. However, as Terence rightly points out, it isn't Wing Chun (calls it Non Classical Gung Fu) but closely resembles it (think Wing Chun stripped down and without forms).

Suki

[Wu Wei Wu]

Not sure how reliable this stuff is;

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25766&page=10

Suki

[Phil Redmond]

My former Sifu Alan Lamb was the first westerner recognized by the VT Association in HK

[t_niehoff]

I agree :o

to an extent...

However, without the entire curriculum you couldn't learn the entire skill. You could, however, still be extremely effective with what you do have


What is the "entire curriculum"? Each branch, lineage of WCK has its own curriculum, its own way of teaching the same fundamentals. And it is those fundamentals that you need (which is what makes them fundamental) to learn the skill that is WCK.

So, IME, you don't need the "entire curriculum" of WCK to learn WCK (the core skill itself).

All you need is the core fundamentals and you can derive the rest through practice. In fact, the "entire curriculum" is merely repetitions and variations of the fundamentals.

Without the fundamentals, you won't be able to make your WCK work.

This is why you can teach WCK with 12 points or 22 points or 40 points, with or without forms, etc. Which is the "entire curriculum"? If you grasp the fundamentals in 12 points, do you need 22?

[LoneTiger108]

Does anyone know who the first westerner to teach wing chun was?

A very complicated question. And one that can only be answered by someone deep within the VTAA of HK (if they were registered at that time)

Alan Lamb first learnt from Joseph Cheng I think so that would not have been before 1970. There were also other students of Joseph Cheng at the time who were actively 'adding' his sansou to their training and most were not Wing Chun teachers, they were known Karate or TKD instructors.

These guys, imo, would have been the first to exchange, but as for the first 'official' westerner? I will ask a few guys and see what names arise...

[TenTigers]

My former Sifu Alan Lamb was the first westerner recognized by the VT Association in HK
I guess we're brothers in more ways than one!;)

[chusauli]

I would agree that Alan Lamb was one of the first Westerners to teach in the USA and the UK publicly and with Koo Sang's authorization, as well as the VTAA, in the early 1970's.

His initial teaching at Aaron Bank's Academy in Manhattan spurred the way for many NY'ers. I even remember visiting as a teen, and seeing Alan (a towering figure) teaching classes (assisted by our own Phil Redmond) and the classes were packed!

Alan now resides here in Los Angeles, where he teaches privately. He is quite a gentleman, and very skilled in WCK.

[Vajramusti]

Alan- has been in martial arts for a long time. In wing chun alone he has had great teachers...Lee Sing line(Joseph Cheng), Paul Lam(leung Shun line) Koo Sang and others. He got several other
Wing Chun people started who are well known in their own right in Europe and the US. He is a warrior who battled major illnesses acquired during his stay in the boondocks in Columbia and came back to teaching and practicing his beloved art.A great friend and a wonderful human being.
He was the first native Brit to teach wing chun. He taught Kernspecht before Alan headed for the US and the Kernspecht linked up with Leung Ting.He has written much on wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

[anerlich]

My first KF instructor, David Crook, opened his school in 1969. He never taught WC exclusively, he also taught elements of CLF and Northern Sil Lum. He was a Goju Ryu Nidan before switching to TCMA. He trained intensively with William Cheung in the late 1960's, even before the latter "revealed" TWC to the world.

I doubt he was the first, but he was definitely one of the first.

[Syn7]

i thought bruce lee never learned that much of the WC system and was not recognized by any WC authority and had no titles given by any WC sifu....???
did lee have any titles from anyone at all? any titles that were given to him rather than self imposed??? earned, i mean, not honorary...

what do you guys think of william chueng and the "real footwork"....???


i read an article where bruce lee said he felt the william chueng was the best WC practitioner he ever trained with...

[LoneTiger108]

Alan- has been in martial arts for a long time. In wing chun alone he has had great teachers...Lee Sing line(Joseph Cheng), Paul Lam(leung Shun line) Koo Sang and others. He got several other
Wing Chun people started who are well known in their own right in Europe and the US. He is a warrior who battled major illnesses acquired during his stay in the boondocks in Columbia and came back to teaching and practicing his beloved art.A great friend and a wonderful human being.
He was the first native Brit to teach wing chun. He taught Kernspecht before Alan headed for the US and the Kernspecht linked up with Leung Ting.He has written much on wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

An insightful post Joy :)

Its amazing how the skills of one man still have repercussions to this day. His site gives a great breakdown of his past influences.

http://www.alanlambwingchun.com/chronology.htm

I'm still not sure that he was the first as it's not clear if he had any authority at all in the UK, especially from Lee Shing.

Joseph Cheng, as we know, disappeared after his book was released and he only mentions his top students at that time. Alan Lamb was not one of them in print but that may mean little these days.

From what I have researched Alan is a pretty formidable guy. As with everything, it's not all about where you come from it's about what you do with your kung fu through life.

[Phil Redmond]

I guess we're brothers in more ways than one!;)
It would be nice if we could all be like brothers. ;)

[Phil Redmond]

I would agree that Alan Lamb was one of the first Westerners to teach in the USA and the UK publicly and with Koo Sang's authorization, as well as the VTAA, in the early 1970's.

His initial teaching at Aaron Bank's Academy in Manhattan spurred the way for many NY'ers. I even remember visiting as a teen, and seeing Alan (a towering figure) teaching classes (assisted by our own Phil Redmond) and the classes were packed!

Alan now resides here in Los Angeles, where he teaches privately. He is quite a gentleman, and very skilled in WCK.
Wow, Robert. You brought back some memories. Sifu Lamb is a big guy. I used to joke with him saying that it wasn't fair for him learn Wing Chun because he knew all the things a smaller person could use on a larger opponent.