Helping Kids Who Get Bullied at School

[Tainan Mantis]

My Wife's friend was telling her of some other lady's 12 year old kid who is catching all sort of bullying.

Here are some examples. In physical education class. One coach supervises four classes at once, yes four!!
So, in order to watch and supervise all four mobs of kids he drives from one corner of the huge field to another corner in his little golf cart. The tuff guys pick on the little guys in a bad way with this sort of supervision.

Another specific instance, in the madness of lunch time, a group of kids always does evil, the latest being that he got a banana shoved up his nose.
This sort of thing has been happening non stop since he started going to middle school three weeks ago.

Of course, I think the best bet is to join my kung fu school.

But, I wonder how other teachers here help kids who are getting bullied at school.

I have not taught in the states for very long, mostly in Taiwan. The only case of my teaching a kid who gets bullied, I just taught him MA and said nothing (actually, the parents didn't tell me). Just him getting the confidence of training has kept the bully kids away (as far as I know).

Looking for any stories and tips that I might be able to present to a mom, or better yet, some sort of play acting in class that helps kids deal with the situation at school better.

Thanks!

[Tainan Mantis]

I saw a video where the teacher advised those kids who get bullied to use their hands and nails to claw down the face of the bully and then go and tell the teacher.
The instructor on this video said that with claw marks on the face the bully can be identified by the teacher.
That seems like an insane idea!

But one that stuck in my head because of its zaniness.

[MasterKiller]

As an instructor, you can't teach kids to fight back in school because Zero Tolerance rules result in both kids being punished, even if it happens off campus during non-school hours.

You have to notify teachers, principals, and bus drivers to watch for behavior.

That being said, as a parent, my daughter has my permission to physically engage anyone who pushes too far.

[mooyingmantis]

As a parent...
When my son was in elementary school several years ago the school called to tell me that my son had been in an altercation with another student. It wasn't my son's fault, the other child had started it. The principle informed me that the school had a zero tolerance policy concerning fighting and that my son was not allowed to defend himself. I informed the principle that I also had a zero tolerance policy concerning violence. And if another child put his hands on my son, my son was trained in martial arts and was expected to kick the child's ass and then I would sue the school system for not sufficiently protecting my son while he was in their care. Funny, but I haven't received another call since that discussion. :D

My advice to my students concerning bullies, POUND THEM TO DUST!

[MasterKiller]

I informed the principle that I also had a zero tolerance policy concerning violence. And if another child put his hands on my son, my son was trained in martial arts and was expected to kick the child's ass and then I would sue the school system for not sufficiently protecting my son while he was in their care. Funny, but I haven't received another call since that discussion. :D

My advice to my students concerning bullies, POUND THEM TO DUST!

Good way to get your students kicked out of school or their parents possibly sued. The same "undue force" laws that apply to me defending my home also apply to kids in school. If you use more force than necessary, you're susceptible to legal repercussions.

When my students have to fight, I teach them to control the kid until someone responsible arrives.

[Violent Designs]

Teach that kid to fight for real with a lot of sparring and yeah, if that crap goes on (getting a banana shoved up your nose? way too far) well elbow one of this little ****s in the face and see how he feels.

[Sardinkahnikov]

Good way to get your students kicked out of school or their parents possibly sued. The same "undue force" laws that apply to me defending my home also apply to kids in school. If you use more force than necessary, you're susceptible to legal repercussions.

When my students have to fight, I teach them to control the kid until someone responsible arrives.

This judicialization of our everyday life is pure bullsh!t, man. You can't take somebody's right to defend themselves, no matter what some old man in a black nightgown thinks! You have to know what kids are like - if a bully isn't stomped, he won't stop because he's a coward little snot who likes to pick easy targets.

Back when I was in school, there were 4 kids who harassed me everyday. As my brother suggested, I solved the problem by smacking two of them really hard with a steel umbrella (they don't make those anymore). Everyone morning I woke up to see how the weather was, so I had an excuse to bring the said umbrella into school, lol. I was suspended for like 3 days and my dad beat my a$$, but the problem was solved. They still tried to harass me for some time still, but they were, say, way more timid in their approach.

[mooyingmantis]

Good way to get your students kicked out of school or their parents possibly sued. The same "undue force" laws that apply to me defending my home also apply to kids in school. If you use more force than necessary, you're susceptible to legal repercussions.

When my students have to fight, I teach them to control the kid until someone responsible arrives.

My child's safety is more important than school and I am quite familiar with the laws in Ohio. Besides, dust can't testify to anything. :P

Controlling can be seen as fighting too. You are at the mercy of your child's principle and their interpretation of the events. Better to teach the bully a lesson and be suspended than to get your ass kicked and get suspended anyways.
Controlling only works if there is one child to defend against. My students NEVER assume there is only one.

[Knifefighter]

Best way to have kids not get bullied is to teach them social skills. Kids who have decent social skills don't get bullied.

Putting a kid with no social skills in a MA class simply results in a kid who is taking a MA class getting bullied.

[TenTigers]

yes and no, KF. Normal kids also get bullied by bullies with no social skills.

My daughter was being harrassed by kids because she was half Asian. When push came to shove, she handled it. Three boys ganged up on her, hit her in the face with a basketball, and she trashed all three. We were brought in and I basically told the principal the same thing moying said. My kid was sent home, so we took her out to lunch and a movie.
Another time a girl threw a football into her chest-she was sitting down talking to her friends at gym. The gym teacher did nothing, so she took care of it. Same scenerio-I came in, yelled at the gym teacher, the principal and then took my kid out to I-HOP and a movie.
(what is it with my kid and getting hit with balls, anyway..?)
No, we don't encourage violence in my family, but when they need to defend themselves, we will always back them.
Besides, I really like I-HOP.

[Syn7]

As a parent...
When my son was in elementary school several years ago the school called to tell me that my son had been in an altercation with another student. It wasn't my son's fault, the other child had started it. The principle informed me that the school had a zero tolerance policy concerning fighting and that my son was not allowed to defend himself. I informed the principle that I also had a zero tolerance policy concerning violence. And if another child put his hands on my son, my son was trained in martial arts and was expected to kick the child's ass and then I would sue the school system for not sufficiently protecting my son while he was in their care. Funny, but I haven't received another call since that discussion. :D

My advice to my students concerning bullies, POUND THEM TO DUST!

OMG i could not disagree any more... that attitude will only get your kid in trouble...

use only as much force as is needed to unsure safety... in elementary school nobody is gonna get shived in the throat... so, the worst that can really hapen is a few bruises... so i feel that its ok to defend yourself but NO MORE than is needed to either escape, difuse the situation, or make them back off... if a bully steps up, then a so called victim child takes the bully kid down, mounts up and pounds the snot out of the bully, sure it will teach the bully a lesson to an extent but it will also potentially incite future violence, sets a poor example for others and in turn makes the victim the bully...
lets say a bully comes up aggressive and pushes a kid... kid says no etc... bully swings... now the kid should counter enough to get away or send a message that you are able to hurt if if you have to...

but when you get older, the rules change... more aggression is usually needed... but these are elementary school kids we're talking about here... they dont usually curb stomp eachother...


so to "pound someone into dust", when really the worst that can happen to you is a bloody nose, is just wrong... these are babies man... thats not defence once you are in control and keep going, that turns into offence and thats not proper to be teaching a small child to act this way...

[MasterKiller]

OMG i could not disagree any more... that attitude will only get your kid in trouble...

use only as much force as is needed to unsure safety... in elementary school nobody is gonna get shived in the throat... so, the worst that can really hapen is a few bruises... so i feel that its ok to defend yourself but NO MORE than is needed to either escape, difuse the situation, or make them back off... if a bully steps up, then a so called victim child takes the bully kid down, mounts up and pounds the snot out of the bully, sure it will teach the bully a lesson to an extent but it will also potentially incite future violence, sets a poor example for others and in turn makes the victim the bully...
lets say a bully comes up aggressive and pushes a kid... kid says no etc... bully swings... now the kid should counter enough to get away or send a message that you are able to hurt if if you have to...

but when you get older, the rules change... more aggression is usually needed... but these are elementary school kids we're talking about here... they dont usually curb stomp eachother...


so to "pound someone into dust", when really the worst that can happen to you is a bloody nose, is just wrong... these are babies man... thats not defence once you are in control and keep going, that turns into offence and thats not proper to be teaching a small child to act this way...

This .

[TenTigers]

in my kids class, I focus more on throwing and takedowns. Dropping a kid on his back is usually enough to be a fight ender, and you don't have to worry about dealing with the parents of a kid with a broken nose.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I often wonder what would happen if my kids were bullied.
I tell them to it is wrong to hit and to hurt others intentionally, but that it is also wrong to ALLOW themselves to be hurt, I teach my oldest to protect herself and to go tell a teacher, beyond that I teach her to protect, hit and run for help.
Beyond that my wife asked me once what would happen if the school did nothing.
I said that I would go to the school and explain things, once.
Happens again and I would go there with my LAWYER and have HIM explain THEIR obligation to a "safe learning environment" to which THEY are responsible AND liable for.
Beyond that, I would find out who the kid(s) parents are and take it from there.

She asked me what I would do if the parents were asses.

Well...I would hope that I could find a solution without having to burn down someone's house and wait for them with a baseball bat and as they come running out, beat them to a pulp, shove them into the nearest sewer drain, drive to the lake, get a boat and row out to where they would come out and smack them in the face with the paddle when their pointy-ass head pops out of the water.

But that's just me...

[Syn7]

My child's safety is more important than school and I am quite familiar with the laws in Ohio. Besides, dust can't testify to anything. :P

Controlling can be seen as fighting too. You are at the mercy of your child's principle and their interpretation of the events. Better to teach the bully a lesson and be suspended than to get your ass kicked and get suspended anyways.
Controlling only works if there is one child to defend against. My students NEVER assume there is only one.

dude, you cant teach kids in grade school the same type of defence you would teach a kid in their mid teens, and certainly not like an adult...

kids dont get swarmed in grade 4... two on one can happen, sure, but its just a fist fight at worst, nobody is gonna be bootstomped... no need to defend yourself the way an adult would on the street...

on the street i will hurt you, i will touch your brain thru your eye sockets and tear your throat out and feed ity to ya... i would never suggest that to a child getting biullied tho... on the street its real life threats, at school, not so much:rolleyes:

[IronFist]

Sounds like you guys are saying the possible choices are:

- Do nothing (so your kid doesn't get in trouble). Result: kid gets bullied indefinitely

- Kick the bully's ass (your kid probably gets in trouble). Result: your kid may stop being bullied, but may also be suspended.

- Try to kick the bully's ass (but fail). Result: your get gets suspended for fighting but continues to be bullied even more for failing in their attempt to stand up for themselves

Did I miss any?

You really can't "reason" with a bully, because they're bullies; they're f'ed in the head and are driven on an instinctive level to pick on people they deem "weaker" than themselves. You can't be like "oh hey, let's be friends." That works on TV shows and middle school sitcoms but not usually in real life.

And the whole "zero tolerance" fighting policy gives all the advantage to the bully, who can push things just far enough to be highly annoying but not actually get in trouble, and if the student retaliates, he gets in trouble.

So yeah, teaching social skills is probably the best preventative (eg. your kid never becomes a target) but it's not necessarily a good solution once social hierarchy has been established.

Often times, however, the bullies end up being the ones who bag your groceries once you're out of high school, but that's a long time to tell a kid who is being bullied every day to wait for revenge.

[Violent Designs]

Knee to the guts, safe and not gonna cause any permanent damage....

good solution?

[Syn7]

bic pen in the eye and slash the throat with the wood ruler w/ the metal edge...

i mean.. just to make sure, right....!!!

[Violent Designs]

dude I got a lot of crap from american kids after I moved to the US for being asian and not really being familiar with the culture, and it was pretty annoying, i didn't know MA back in the day but if I did I would have made sure some of them knew the difference between angry words and a fist to the face.

I didn't wanna get into trouble because my stepfather was a b!tch of a man and didn't know what it meant to stand up for yourself and just told me to do whatever and not get into trouble.

finally got sick of it and b1tch slapped some kid that came up talking crap to me, shoved him into a locker and called him out to fight me.

dude slinked away and never said jack to me ever again, I got suspended for like 2 days or something but PROBLEM SOLVED.

[MasterKiller]

http://www.chaosscenario.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/27/internet.jpg

[Sardinkahnikov]

C'mon gents, this is a MA board, are you guys saying that instrumental violence doesn't qualify as a social skill? :)

Also, you can't TEACH someone social skills like you can teach them how to do a hip throw - specially when said someone is a insecure pre-pubescent kid with a face full of zits, a weird voice that wears braces. Taking a stand for yourself is something that you'll only learn with time, experience and the right attitude.

[Syn7]

i never send my kids to school without their mouthpeice and handwraps...

[Sardinkahnikov]

i never send my kids to school without their mouthpeice and handwraps...

Forget that ring fighting crap man, you have to prepare them for the streets

[SoCo KungFu]

I was always one of the smallest kids in school growing up. I used to get bullied. Until one day (think I was about 12 or 13) the teacher walked out. He got up and walked toward me. I got up and he shoved me into a table. I punched him in the face. Then hit him over the head with a chair. We both got suspended for a few days. I had straight A's so it didn't matter. He had to repeat. I was never bullied again.

[Syn7]

Forget that ring fighting crap man, you have to prepare them for the streets

ive used my mouthpeice in street fights... i keep it in my bag... and handwraps are for my hands protection, not the opponents face... handwraps mean i can hit harder and more often before my hands break...

ring, nothing... i wish i had time to wrap my hands in street fights... alas, they are usually spontaneous... but alot of time you can atleast get the mouthpeice in if you arent being attacked... like if you see dudes acting up and knuckleheads tear off their shirt and talk all loud and whatnot... me, i stay quiet leave my shirt on, put in my mouthpeice and proceed to bash face...

anyone who has actually fought knows all this... both mouthpeice and handwraps are for my protection... anytime i can use em when fighying i will... and so will anyone else who knows what theyre doing... mouthpeice esspecially...

[Sardinkahnikov]

ive used my mouthpeice in street fights... i keep it in my bag... and handwraps are for my hands protection, not the opponents face... handwraps mean i can hit harder and more often before my hands break...

ring, nothing... i wish i had time to wrap my hands in street fights... alas, they are usually spontaneous... but alot of time you can atleast get the mouthpeice in if you arent being attacked... like if you see dudes acting up and knuckleheads tear off their shirt and talk all loud and whatnot... me, i stay quiet leave my shirt on, put in my mouthpeice and proceed to bash face...

anyone who has actually fought knows all this... both mouthpeice and handwraps are for my protection... anytime i can use em when fighying i will... and so will anyone else who knows what theyre doing... mouthpeice esspecially...

I was joking :D

[Syn7]

I was joking :D

k..... :)

i wonder what a teacher would do if they saw handwraps and a mouthpeice in a 4th graders scooby doo lunchbox???

[Sardinkahnikov]

k..... :)

i wonder what a teacher would do if they saw handwraps and a mouthpeice in a 4th graders scooby doo lunchbox???

she will probably think "this kid is hardcore, i might get RNC'd if i try to suspend him":p

[mooyingmantis]

I do not advocate violence nor is my son allowed to bully or start fights. He must walk away as long as only words are being thrown. However, touch him and its on.
In nine years of school he has never been suspended, though he has been in a few fights (he used to be about the smallest in his class so a good target). Most fights he subdued the opponent with a chin na arm lock technique. Once he knocked the crap out of a kid two years older on the bus. He has not had to fight since. He is prob one of the few freshmen at his school that has not been picked on. His reputation preceded him.

I stand by my POUND THEM TO DUST mentality. It works for us. But most peeps say I am kinda "old school". :o

[MasterKiller]

All the tough guys here...


http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2479279-md.jpg

[mooyingmantis]

http://www.chaosscenario.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/27/internet.jpg

LOL! Masterkiller, you never disappoint! That is freaking hilarious! :D

[Knifefighter]

LOL @ all the parents who can't admit that their kids might be lacking in the social skills department.

Here's news for you. Kids with good social skills have lots of friends. Kids with lots friends don't get picked on because the bullies get ostracized and/or get their own beatings from the friends.

And for those who think you can't teach social skills, chances are your own social skills aren't very good yourself.

[goju]

LOL @ all the parents who can't admit that their kids might be lacking in the social skills department.

Here's news for you. Kids with good social skills have lots of friends. Kids with lots friends don't get picked on because the bullies get ostracized and/or get their own beatings from the friends.

And for those who think you can't teach social skills, chances are your own social skills aren't very good yourself.
@ the irony of you speaking on social skills BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHAAH

[David Jamieson]

There are plenty of anti bully programs in schools now.
In the last 10 years there has been a surge in addressing these behaviours.

I think that people taking it upon themselves to turn kids into aggressive fighters as a way to deal with others is, well, shortsighted.

There's a better way.

[Knifefighter]

@ the irony of you speaking on social skills BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHAAH

Well, considering I have a degree in the field...

What's your degree in... oh, that's right, you are a high school dropout who works as a hospital janitor.

[goju]

Well, considering I have a degree in the field...

What's your degree in... oh, that's right, you are a high school dropout who works as a hospital janitor.

and that degree got you to the point where you are elderly and trolling a forum for attention....

Did this college happen to teach you how to make balloon animals and ride a unicycle by any chance?:D

[goju]

There are plenty of anti bully programs in schools now.
In the last 10 years there has been a surge in addressing these behaviours.

I think that people taking it upon themselves to turn kids into aggressive fighters as a way to deal with others is, well, shortsighted.

There's a better way.

i think sanjuro's reasoning was the best way to go as far as this is concerned

[TenTigers]

and what about those kids that aren't in the most popular group?
The ones that may be a bit awkward, a bit quiet, a bit alone, a "bit different?"
Aren't these the targets? The ones that get singled out by the bullies, the predators? Aren't these the kids that walk into our schools that need the skills, the confidense, the self-esteem that we, as Martial Arts teachers can develop within them?
Or are we the school that only caters to the social/athletic elite?
Or worse, the bullies themselves?
Many schools, specifically those whose main focus is MMA, attract a very specific clientele: athletic, aggressive, competitve, young testosterone fueled males.
Read the publications from the MA school industry. Statistics don't lie.

[TenTigers]

and that degree got you to the point where you are elderly and trolling a forum for attention....

Did this college happen to teach you how to make balloon animals and ride a unicycle by any chance?:D
Hey, I wanted to go to Clown College...but ended up in SVA...now I teach MA.
But I still get to wear the funny clothes!

[Lucas]

school is probably a lot different now days....

but when i was a kid, i was the new kid ever 1-2 years. almost every year of school i was in a new school. moved alot.

i have superior social skills, but some asses just like to pick on 'the new guy' no matter how cool you are. because you are new and on the first day **** happens. i got a lot of 'bulliles' trying to start beef with me right away, and i always, always, gave it back.

fighting someone either:

a: gives them some respect for you

b: causes them to hate you eternally

[goju]

Hey, I wanted to go to Clown College..

hell didnt we all at one point in time?:D

on the subject matter even my experience was different back then you would beat up a kid messing with you and not get in big trouble. Hell my grandfather even used to drive me to the kids house and i would run out the car door and attack him then get back in and we would drive off lolol

Now everyones quick to sue right off the bat

[TenTigers]

also-if a kid gets in a fight with a bully, loses, but puts up a good fight, most times the bully looks for easier prey. Sometimes they even become friendlier towards them, as they won respect, while still giving them the face they wanted.
Of course, sometimes it becomes a life (at least while at school) of endless torment. It's a coin toss...

[Lokhopkuen]

I've raised four younglings so far and had the best results focusing on defensive skills.
Body language and an attitude that does not read as an easy target is a good start. Bullies look for a target that won't or can't fight back.
Begin to cultivate skills of spacial awareness, identifying/ avoiding potential trouble sources while working on agility, mobility, drill them to protect their vital points. Once they can control their personal space the whole fear of being struck is diminished or eliminated then they are relaxed, aware and ready.

When my oldest son (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVUDXq6Kb8) was in school his defensive skills were so on point that he'd toy with his antagonist redirecting or controlling their aggressive angles. I taught him to draw an imaginary line in front of this lead side. When an attacker steps across the line he'd disrupt the step or punish the limb, if a hand came across he'd check, seize, redirect or punish it. By his junior year he became very compassionate and refused to strike back. He became very good at seizing and uprooting. My youngest has never had a fight or if he has will not talk about them, all he will say is "they leave me alone".

Hope this helps:D

[Syn7]

Well, considering I have a degree in the field...


which field is that??? psychology??? what are your credentials???

i know alot of cats that went into psych right after highschool, but not many that finished... most changed majors after a year or two...

[Syn7]

i was picked on by one kid for about half a year till i fought back... all i did was break his nose and push him over... but it was enough, nobody bothered me again... well, not till highschool anyways... but at that point i was more inclined to enjoy a good fight so it was most welcome at most times...

[bawang]

yes and no, KF. Normal kids also get bullied by bullies with no social skills.

My daughter was being harrassed by kids because she was half Asian. When push came to shove, she handled it. Three boys ganged up on her, hit her in the face with a basketball, and she trashed all three. We were brought in and I basically told the principal the same thing moying said. My kid was sent home, so we took her out to lunch and a movie.
Another time a girl threw a football into her chest-she was sitting down talking to her friends at gym. The gym teacher did nothing, so she took care of it. Same scenerio-I came in, yelled at the gym teacher, the principal and then took my kid out to I-HOP and a movie.
(what is it with my kid and getting hit with balls, anyway..?)
No, we don't encourage violence in my family, but when they need to defend themselves, we will always back them.
Besides, I really like I-HOP.

nice. you have honor
your kids learn important life lson: MERCY IS FOR THE WEAK ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE

[monkeyfoot]

Interesting topic

My mother pushed the idea of non-violence (super Christian) and as a young boy (7-11) I paid the price for this. I was picked on all the time by my best mate, and my kind hearted nature always always stopped me from fighting. I barely defended myself, and people always took advantage of this. I wasn't weak or anything like that (i'd always fight with my older brothers) but I just never fought back or defended myself. I loose count how many times my nose has been broken...

Anyway, when I have a child I will teach him/her to hit hard, fast, and defeat the bully as quickly as possible, using whatever the situation requires. I could have benefited so much from someone who instilled this approach in me, and it would have saved me years of people taking advantage of my good nature.

But then I always think the bullies end up the losers. All the bullies I knew came from bad/angry/divorced/abusive families, and they generally grew up to be useless failures with little going for them. On the other hand, myself and others I know who got bullied at one point or another in their childhood have grown up to be stronger better people. I have a great girlfriend, I've travelled the world, I love my job....now I think, "yea sure you bullied me, but I'm not the one collecting trollies for 4 pounds and hour from the local store".

HAR HARRRRRR

[David Jamieson]

If you "train" your child to fight, and they fail because life isn't a movie about righteousness then I wonder what you guys would think the result would be?

Think about it. Just because you train someone, doesn't mean anything. That's just training.

If your mini black belt gets his ass handed to him after you encourage them to fight, then what?

Is it not wiser to teach your child to escape or to trust the authorities to help him/her?

A child is a weak little thing, approaching them as if they are cold, calculating problem solvers based on your emotional reaction to them getting bullied will not always lead to a good place.

just sayin...

[Syn7]

A child is a weak little thing, approaching them as if they are cold, calculating problem solvers based on your emotional reaction to them getting bullied will not always lead to a good place.

just sayin...


this...................................... yesssssss......



and like was mentioned above: what if they lose to an untrained goon??? what will that do to them psychologically after youve instilled all that confidence and tell them if they train and act right they wont get hurt???

[Sardinkahnikov]

Is it not wiser to teach your child to escape or to trust the authorities to help him/her?


lol god, no

[David Jamieson]

lol god, no

really?

did you know that some of the very best street proof your kids programs involve exacly those things?

do you not expect your child to trust you as an authority?

Would you not want to provide them with the best solution that they do not have to feel bad about being physically assaulted and nor do they have to endure the psychological responsibility of harming someone else.

Can you trust a child to measure their use of force at a young age?

If you teach your child to escape, to call out and to seek protection with people he can trust you are probably teaching them the most sane thing you can.

Bullies can be dealt with, they always are. It is up to those who put the children in the situation where they encounter bullies to deal with that problem.

So, the teachers, the institution that you send your child too and all that is your responsibility. Knowing who their friends are and where they hang out and being for them is even more important.

Give it some thought before you teach a kid to fold his hand to a fist.

[mooyingmantis]

really?

did you know that some of the very best street proof your kids programs involve exacly those things?

do you not expect your child to trust you as an authority?

Would you not want to provide them with the best solution that they do not have to feel bad about being physically assaulted and nor do they have to endure the psychological responsibility of harming someone else.

Can you trust a child to measure their use of force at a young age?

If you teach your child to escape, to call out and to seek protection with people he can trust you are probably teaching them the most sane thing you can.

Bullies can be dealt with, they always are. It is up to those who put the children in the situation where they encounter bullies to deal with that problem.

So, the teachers, the institution that you send your child too and all that is your responsibility. Knowing who their friends are and where they hang out and being for them is even more important.

Give it some thought before you teach a kid to fold his hand to a fist.

Though that sounds so nice, that approach is failing miserably in the US. My wife is a public school teacher whose school has adopted the above approach. Unfortunately, there is no less bullying or violence.
Kids who run to others for protection become even larger targets.

Knowing who their friends are and where they hang out and being for them is even more important.

That statement is right on target!

[TenTigers]

really?
Give it some thought before you teach a kid to fold his hand to a fist.

quite true. Most kids don't have the wrist developed enough to throw a decent punch. Palm strikes are far better suited.
You also have the added benefit of teaching them those "Bully Buster" techniques, where they put up both their palms and say,
"Stop! I don't want any trouble!"
then they can slam their palms into the kids nose, and follow up with an eye gouge, rip down the face, catch their lower lip and rip down as hard as they can, grab their head with both hands and slam it into his knee, snap the head back and power drive it into the cement for the win.
-unless they're under six. Then they should run away and tell.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This entire thread stinks of politically correct brain washed ideologies of walk away, no tolerance, BS the school system as well as our left wing sh**it infested government is trying to sell. When I was young, if you got in a fight at school, you got detention, got suspended, or if you were smart, you went somewhere you would not get caught.

Teach your children to walk tall, proud, and take no sh**it from anyone, albeit what some liberal ******wad like Jameison will tell you.

We need more John Wayne and John Kreese bad a**ss role models in this world. The irony is people can't seem to figure out why their children are such limp noodle candy a**sses. Strike first, strike hard, no mercy Sir!!!:D

[mooyingmantis]

This entire thread stinks of politically correct brain washed ideologies of walk away, no tolerance, BS the school system as well as our left wing sh**it infested government is trying to sell. When I was young, if you got in a fight at school, you got detention, got suspended, or if you were smart, you went somewhere you would not get caught.

Teach your children to walk tall, proud, and take no sh**it from anyone, albeit what some liberal ******wad like Jameison will tell you.

We need more John Wayne and John Kreese bad a**ss role models in this world. The irony is people can't seem to figure out why their children are such limp noodle candy a**sses. Strike first, strike hard, no mercy Sir!!!:D

Geez, for once I actually agree with you! :eek: :D

Though I have no bad comments about Jamieson. Perhaps if more people truly felt like he does, this world would be a better place. Unfortunately, that is not reality.

[Lucas]

there are too many freaking people. i'm suprised i didnt get plucked off by natural selection. the main point though is that, as long as you kids are smart, know what up and down, left and right is. If they have all the info, and good support, and everything is in order, **** can still go down. back up plan, cant run no help, you want them to know what to do.

spider man told us all folks. great power. so if you can trust your kids, and i hope you can since YOU raise them, make sure they can defend themselves. thats just my opinion, and i know a lot of people do and dont agree, thus is life.

anyway, no matter what you do or dont do, if your kid isnt a wuss, they already think they can kick everyones ass. you are their dad after all.

[PalmStriker]

Number One Myth: The Bully grows up to spend his life bagging groceries and retrieving shopping carts. Truth: These individuals look for easy targets later in life and are often incarcerated for violent crimes involving robbery and drug use, murder and multiple criminal crimes. These birds of a feather have much in common and are not banking on social skills for success. Some of them become crooked cops in the company of other criminally inclined "enforcers". And then there's the sociopath.....

[David Jamieson]

Violence begets violence and rarely does any good come from it.
Don't expect a child to be of the mind that you are of.

The less violence in a child's life, the better.

I don't know how that makes me a liberal ******wad. lol

[David Jamieson]

This entire thread stinks of politically correct brain washed ideologies of walk away, no tolerance, BS the school system as well as our left wing sh**it infested government is trying to sell. When I was young, if you got in a fight at school, you got detention, got suspended, or if you were smart, you went somewhere you would not get caught.

Teach your children to walk tall, proud, and take no sh**it from anyone, albeit what some liberal ******wad like Jameison will tell you.

We need more John Wayne and John Kreese bad a**ss role models in this world. The irony is people can't seem to figure out why their children are such limp noodle candy a**sses. Strike first, strike hard, no mercy Sir!!!:D

you've been listening to far too much sarah palin. lol

speaking of brainwashed! lol

such vitriol! :p

[TenTigers]

Number One Myth: The Bully grows up to spend his life bagging groceries and retrieving shopping carts. Truth: These individuals look for easy targets later in life and are often incarcerated for violent crimes involving robbery and drug use, murder and multiple criminal crimes. These birds of a feather have much in common and are not banking on social skills for success. Some of them become crooked cops in the company of other criminally inclined "enforcers". And then there's the sociopath.....
or worse, teachers, politicians, ceo's, stockbrokers...

[Drake]

Punching a bully in the face was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. In my whole life.

[David Jamieson]

Punching a bully in the face was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. In my whole life.

For me it was losing my virginity. But I don't know about my whole life, I've had many great experiences that outstrip any wins in fighting.

:p

[Lucas]

mine was being born.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

you've been listening to far too much sarah palin. lol

speaking of brainwashed! lol

such vitriol! :p

Sarah Palin is as big of a moron as our current commander in chief, and that is saying something. You cannot teach weakness and expect strength. Intelligence is a powerful tool, much more so than any martial or physical strengths, but intelligence alone does not always make the cut. We want our children to always walk away but the reality is most children have sociopathic tendancies because of inmaturity and less life experience. So the bully is not always a limp noodle pansy like the idiots like to preach, and walking away does nothing but show weakness and make them smell blood.

Hell, you are all Kung Fu stylists, what does the Tiger do when it stalks it's prey, and it is not doing so out of malice and hate, it does so out of survival and nature's food chain. In the end, the strong survive, the weak die or get weaker, and perpetuating a myth to our children that walking away is always the best option is downright idiotic.

[David Jamieson]

Sarah Palin is as big of a moron as our current commander in chief, and that is saying something. You cannot teach weakness and expect strength. Intelligence is a powerful tool, much more so than any martial or physical strengths, but intelligence alone does not always make the cut. We want our children to always walk away but the reality is most children have sociopathic tendancies because of inmaturity and less life experience. So the bully is not always a limp noodle pansy like the idiots like to preach, and walking away does nothing but show weakness and make them smell blood.

Hell, you are all Kung Fu stylists, what does the Tiger do when it stalks it's prey, and it is not doing so out of malice and hate, it does so out of survival and nature's food chain. In the end, the strong survive, the weak die or get weaker, and perpetuating a myth to our children that walking away is always the best option is downright idiotic.

I don't agree with any of this. lol

Sarah Palin got herself elected Governor and pulls down a lot of money for doing very little. So, while her point of view is messed up, she's no dummy.

as for the CiC, from an outsiders perspective, he's not bad compared to what you just had for the previous 8 years. lol

nobody says a bully is anything but a bully.

kids are not tigers and neither are you or I.

walking away was not suggested, escape and evasion and safe harbour are what I was suggesting and to use the resources that are there.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I don't agree with any of this. lol

Sarah Palin got herself elected Governor and pulls down a lot of money for doing very little. So, while her point of view is messed up, she's no dummy.

as for the CiC, from an outsiders perspective, he's not bad compared to what you just had for the previous 8 years. lol

nobody says a bully is anything but a bully.

kids are not tigers and neither are you or I.

walking away was not suggested, escape and evasion and safe harbour are what I was suggesting and to use the resources that are there.

What about this guy, does he qualify?:D

http://gorightly.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/tiger-man.jpg

Also, while it may just be a theory I have, so too are your ideas. I don't know how I could go on knowing you don't agree with me on something.

[David Jamieson]

What about this guy, does he qualify?:D

http://gorightly.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/tiger-man.jpg

Also, while it may just be a theory I have, so too are your ideas.

I dunno, how much theory have you put into reality? You ever hit someone with a bat? Stabbed someone? Been shot at? Shot at someone? These things happen all the time and each incident comes out different really. Starts out different too!

The mma ring is NOT the only place where **** happens after all despite what knifefighter would like everyone to think. lol *jab*

as for body alteration dude, well he's just a big ***** now isn't he. lol

[Violent Designs]

walking away was not suggested, escape and evasion and safe harbour are what I was suggesting and to use the resources that are there.

Instead of walking away we'll have them run instead. Or sprint.

Doing windsprints while escaping bullies? Physical conditioning while escaping danger? I might have to patent this new exercise routine.

You sound just like my ex-stepfather. "Don't fight back, go tell the teacher, leave the situation, ignore those guys, etc, etc, etc."

Guess what? It never worked. EVER.

Until I decided to b1tchslap one of the *******s giving me crap, then shove him to the ground (or I think it was a locker, it was so long ago).

Kid never said another word to me again after that.

[TenTigers]

You sound just like my ex-stepfather. "Don't fight back, go tell the teacher, leave the situation, ignore those guys, etc, etc, etc."

Guess what? It never worked. EVER.

I tell my students:
"Look, no matter how good, or nice you are, trouble can always find YOU.
Learn to recognize the signs and Avoid the situation.
If you can't, then talk your way out of it.
If you can't talk, then walk.
If you can't walk, then run."
If you can't run, then fly.
But, if your back's up against the wall, and you have no other options,
THEN and only then, you need to fight."

[TenTigers]

What about this guy, does he qualify?:D

http://gorightly.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/tiger-man.jpg


wow, it just goes to show, there are other options for a hairlip, besides the Stacey Keach moustache.

[David Jamieson]

I tell my students:
"Look, no matter how good, or nice you are, trouble can always find YOU.
Learn to recognize the signs and Avoid the situation.
If you can't, then talk your way out of it.
If you can't talk, then walk.
If you can't walk, then run."
If you can't run, then fly.
But, if your back's up against the wall, and you have no other options,
THEN and only then, you need to fight."

what are you, shaolin or something? lol:p

[David Jamieson]

Instead of walking away we'll have them run instead. Or sprint.

Doing windsprints while escaping bullies? Physical conditioning while escaping danger? I might have to patent this new exercise routine.

You sound just like my ex-stepfather. "Don't fight back, go tell the teacher, leave the situation, ignore those guys, etc, etc, etc."

Guess what? It never worked. EVER.

Until I decided to b1tchslap one of the *******s giving me crap, then shove him to the ground (or I think it was a locker, it was so long ago).

Kid never said another word to me again after that.

well good for you, you solved exactly one problem there.
I never said "don't fight back, go tell teacher etc etc"
I merely said there are better ways and that escape and evasion and trust in the authorities for a child in school is in my opinion, the better way.

Kids can still do their karate/kungfu/wrestling etc and get out of that what they can and it will make a difference in how they carry and present themselves, I have no doubt.

My point is that it is not always wise to give a kid the idea that the problem is surmountable through physical retaliation because reality doesn't work like that and you could very well be opening a can of worms that you really don't want to open with a school aged child.

[TenTigers]

my mistake-upon further research, Stacy Keach did not actually have a hairlip, but a scar from cleft palette surgery, which he hid with a moustache.

[David Jamieson]

my mistake-upon further research, Stacy Keach did not actually have a hairlip, but a scar from cleft palette surgery, which he hid with a moustache.

so, he had a hairlip, got it fixed and covered the evidence with a big porn stache!

[sanjuro_ronin]

A case that happened here not too long ago.
Kid was bullied, kid finally fought back.
Kid got killed.

Even before that, one that hit home to an extent, happened decades ago, Kid was bullied, kid fought back, bully waited for kid and stabbed him in the back.
Kid lost one of his kidneys.
Kid trained that the TKD school I was at.
Never came back after the surgery so I don't know what happened after that.
Kid was 15 or 16, can't recall for sure.

[David Jamieson]

A case that happened here not too long ago.
Kid was bullied, kid finally fought back.
Kid got killed.

Even before that, one that hit home to an extent, happened decades ago, Kid was bullied, kid fought back, bully waited for kid and stabbed him in the back.
Kid lost one of his kidneys.
Kid trained that the TKD school I was at.
Never came back after the surgery so I don't know what happened after that.
Kid was 15 or 16, can't recall for sure.

Ugly reality forces second thoughts.

There are some awesome street proofing programs available. I think that there are likely a lot of martial arts teachers who overlook these concepts however.

I personally am a proponent of de-escalation, escape, evasion and positioning to be witnessed by the authorities over each. Not run and tell, be in the open so others can clearly see what is happening if anything at all.

unfortunately, the weak have great difficulty overcoming the strong. Bullies do not pick on others the same size as them for the most part.

avoid, evade, escape.

Life is not cut and dried and I'm not saying your kid or any kid is not going to have to fight ever or defend themselves, but I wouldn't put the cart before the horse.

a 120 lb skilled boxer would be crushed by a 200 lb skilled boxer. That simple reality is enough to realize that skill isn't always the answer in these situations.

[Violent Designs]

A case that happened here not too long ago.
Kid was bullied, kid finally fought back.
Kid got killed.

Even before that, one that hit home to an extent, happened decades ago, Kid was bullied, kid fought back, bully waited for kid and stabbed him in the back.
Kid lost one of his kidneys.
Kid trained that the TKD school I was at.
Never came back after the surgery so I don't know what happened after that.
Kid was 15 or 16, can't recall for sure.

Unfortunately using overwhelming violence is a good way to get into legal trouble.

And those that DO use overwhelming violence are usually the scum of the earth and could really care less about legal trouble anyways.

That is the sad ugly truth.

[Syn7]

A case that happened here not too long ago.
Kid was bullied, kid finally fought back.
Kid got killed.

Even before that, one that hit home to an extent, happened decades ago, Kid was bullied, kid fought back, bully waited for kid and stabbed him in the back.
Kid lost one of his kidneys.
Kid trained that the TKD school I was at.
Never came back after the surgery so I don't know what happened after that.
Kid was 15 or 16, can't recall for sure.

so "pounding him to dust" not such a good idea huh....

[David Jamieson]

There simply is no magic bullet.

Kids should be allowed to be kids and should have others fight there fights for them.

they're kids after all. they deserve our protection and care.

[TenTigers]

There simply is no magic bullet.
.
now there's a good idea. Bullets! Arm the weenies who are getting bullied! I guarantee that no bully will harm a kid once he gets his britches full of buckshot.