any ideas?

[TenTigers]

ok, so I have this "friend," who is in his 40's a very talented MAist, a good instructor who knows how to break down technique and bring out a person's strong points, and a fierce fighter. He is also a talented guitarist-can play VH better than the guys in the tribute bands.
He is penniless. He's taking meds for depression, gets a SS check which goes to his father for room and board, and that's it. He has a record, and no real skills, unless you count his previous career in pharmaceutical distribution...

At this point, he is at the end of his rope, and is contemplating suicide.
I'd like to help him, but there is a diiference between a hand up and a hand out.
I told him he should seek counciling, but he feels that there is no point. Hard to talk to someone who is that far gone.
I told him, there is always work, he could pass out flyers, post his playing on youtube, if he gets a handful of guitar and Karate students, he could work his way up from there, but again, his mental/emotional state prevents him from seeing the possibilities.
Any ideas?

[David Jamieson]

ok, so I have this "friend," who is in his 40's a very talented MAist, a good instructor who knows how to break down technique and bring out a person's strong points, and a fierce fighter. He is also a talented guitarist-can play VH better than the guys in the tribute bands.
He is penniless. He's taking meds for depression, gets a SS check which goes to his father for room and board, and that's it. He has a record, and no real skills, unless you count his previous career in pharmaceutical distribution...

At this point, he is at the end of his rope, and is contemplating suicide.
I'd like to help him, but there is a diiference between a hand up and a hand out.
I told him he should seek counciling, but he feels that there is no point. Hard to talk to someone who is that far gone.
I told him, there is always work, he could pass out flyers, post his playing on youtube, if he gets a handful of guitar and Karate students, he could work his way up from there, but again, his mental/emotional state prevents him from seeing the possibilities.
Any ideas?

Sad, but reads as though he doesn't want to be helped and that he is languishing.

All you can do is tell him that you will be there for him as well as you are able.

You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

[Syn7]

is he an addict??? or was he just a dealer???

my answer depends on the answer to that question...

if he is an addict, what sort of treatment has he been through???

[TenTigers]

both-was on methadone therapy-he's clean now-well, except for all the anti-depression meds...

[Syn7]

both-was on methadone therapy-he's clean now-well, except for all the anti-depression meds...

how long has been off the juice???


yeah that changes everything... all you can do is be a friend... if you become an "enabler", at that point you become a negative influence in his life... its tough... the trick is to find the right balance between helpful loving friend, and tough love "youre a good guy but you need to do X if you want Y" type of friend...

i wsh i could tell you theres a fix, tell you something you dont already know... but it really depends on the specifics of the situation... you can be a good friend without enabling him... and when i say that, i dont just mean with drugs, i mean emotionally, physically and spiritually... baby steps... i think whats would probably be most appreciated is time... just take the time... listen alot, just talk... thats therapy you cant pay for...

but you cant help if you dont put in the time... just being there is saying alot... but its not something you can help by stopping by every few days, giving a pep talk and then carrying on...

bi-polar, yeah?

[TenTigers]

not so much bi-polar, he doesn't seem to have the manic, up sides. He flips alot. He has alot of anger in him, towards himself, towards the world. One kid he was teaching guitar to, stopped showing up for lessons, and he says,"If I see that fukin kid, I'm going to punch his lights out!"
He was always paranoid, back when he was dealing/using, combination of real worry about cops and the drugs, steroids he was using. I think it's left its mark.
I didn't know him as a kid, just for the past 25 yrs, and he was always pretty much a mean dude. Great technique, and the hardest hook punch I've ever felt. Probably one of the best guys Barathy ever trained.
I learned alot training with him.
Such a shame.

[Syn7]

not so much bi-polar, he doesn't seem to have the manic, up sides. He flips alot. He has alot of anger in him, towards himself, towards the world. One kid he was teaching guitar to, stopped showing up for lessons, and he says,"If I see that fukin kid, I'm going to punch his lights out!"
He was always paranoid, back when he was dealing/using, combination of real worry about cops and the drugs, steroids he was using. I think it's left its mark.
I didn't know him as a kid, just for the past 25 yrs, and he was always pretty much a mean dude. Great technique, and the hardest hook punch I've ever felt. Probably one of the best guys Barathy ever trained.
I learned alot training with him.
Such a shame.

if he's that good maybe he'd be a good addition to a fight team... help the competitors train... good way to release aggression... he can get paid and its like therapy...

also a guy like that isnt as intimidating to a group of fighters as he would be to others... like some kid that wanted to learn guitar... if he gets outta line he'll get put back into line real quick...

[SPJ]

mid life crises

set up new goals

--

your own life

your own road

you create for your self.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91KUlZNt9Zo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4DJMPGNiD0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HhAcvlCPb4&feature=related

:)

[mickey]

TenTigers,

I work with people who have mental health issues. You need to get him to a doctor to have him assessed. There could be issues with medication compliance that you are unaware of. The contemplation of suicide should not be taken lightly at all. Make the move to get the person the support he needs before it is too late. Once he is stabilized, then you can be of help in helping him rebuild his life. Right now he needs professional help.

mickey

[Syn7]

well, the fact that he is on prescription drugs suggests he is under the care of a doctor of sorts... no??? i dont know how it is in the states... but in canada you need a psychiatrist to get those drugs... any M.D. could write you a prescription if they wanted to but they dont... those are left to the proper doctor...

in the states do many people get anti depressants, and the like, from family doctors???

[taai gihk yahn]

Rik, just please, everything else aside, take care of yourself; don't let your friendship with this man be a rope that he drags you down with;

anyway, if he is actively ideating about suicide and if he's not currently under the care of a psychiatrist who can handle the matter, just about the only thing you can do is walk him to the ER of the local hospital (if he is wiling) and explain the situation to them - they will place him under appropriate supervision and hopefully get him into some sort of treatment;

that said, keep him the hel away from your school and students, and I would be very careful about getting too involved in his life - he will use your friendship to manipulate you, which is why he needs professional help first and foremost;

good luck;

[GeneChing]

If he has a plan, you need to get him to professional help ASAP.

[Dragonzbane76]

you can have someone committed if they are a danger to themselves or others. But I will state this, I wouldn't look to see your "friendship" go any further after doing it. It might save the guys life, but it will probably end what ever sembelance of friendship you have with him. Most people crazy or not don't like it when someone else takes their fate away from them.

[Drake]

Don't listen to anyone here, myself included. Suicide counseling and suicide prevention is more complex than you think and nobody here is qualified to recommend anything. Get professional help for this guy, instead of following advice such as "he doesn't want to be helped, etc"

[Syn7]

Don't listen to anyone here, myself included. Suicide counseling and suicide prevention is more complex than you think and nobody here is qualified to recommend anything. Get professional help for this guy, instead of following advice such as "he doesn't want to be helped, etc"

that....
and if he's really serious about suicide, even if it ruins your freindship, you should have him evaluated, voluntary or not...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Get him professional help, ASAP.

[Hardwork108]

ok, so I have this "friend," who is in his 40's a very talented MAist, a good instructor who knows how to break down technique and bring out a person's strong points, and a fierce fighter. He is also a talented guitarist-can play VH better than the guys in the tribute bands.
He is penniless. He's taking meds for depression, gets a SS check which goes to his father for room and board, and that's it. He has a record, and no real skills, unless you count his previous career in pharmaceutical distribution...

At this point, he is at the end of his rope, and is contemplating suicide.
I'd like to help him, but there is a diiference between a hand up and a hand out.
I told him he should seek counciling, but he feels that there is no point. Hard to talk to someone who is that far gone.
I told him, there is always work, he could pass out flyers, post his playing on youtube, if he gets a handful of guitar and Karate students, he could work his way up from there, but again, his mental/emotional state prevents him from seeing the possibilities.
Any ideas?

I am no psychologist, and this is a long shot, as I don't know the guy, but perhaps you should tell him that you want to learn some of the finer aspects of karate and that you need his help, and just get together and train a few times a week. Sometimes training can have therapeutic effects on us, and of course it will be good for you as well, as training always is. If he agrees, then perhaps you can finish the training sessions with some of your chi kung kung fu exercises, which may also help to eventually "balance" him out.

If he goes for it, then who knows, you might eventually find others who will join the training sessions and in time solidify him financially?

Of course, as others have suggested, you should also do your best for him to interact with professionals who may be able to help him.

[KC Elbows]

My condolensces, I have a close friend who seems to be on a similar track(lifelong jerkishness, bitterness, arrogance that leads to periodic suicide talk). He's the sort to put women on a pedastal and then implode when that doesn't work out, which I didn't think much about when we were younger, but as we get older, makes me worry.

For some reason, people I've known like that always own guns.(Not a comment on gun ownership, just a disturbing fact when they're talking suicide.) I don't care about your rights, if you know you are suicidal, buying a gun in your 'good times' is not nice to the people around you.