MMA - Fadtastic

[mooyingmantis]

It cracks me up to read so many posts here by peeps that seem to think that MMA will outlive TCMA. Peeps, its a fad. TCMA has endured communist repression, the kick boxing fad, the ninja fad and it will out last the MMA fad.

I am not against MMA by any means. It is a great sport. It has renewed the masses interest in martial arts. But it isn't the be all end all that some peeps think it is. It too shall go out of vogue. And when it does TCMA will put it to bed, turn out the light and go do what time tested arts do, continue to train.

Rant off. :)

[Dragonzbane76]

MMA - Fadtastic

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It cracks me up to read so many posts here by peeps that seem to think that MMA will outlive TCMA. Peeps, its a fad. TCMA has endured communist repression, the kick boxing fad, the ninja fad and it will out last the MMA fad.

I am not against MMA by any means. It is a great sport. It has renewed the masses interest in martial arts. But it isn't the be all end all that some peeps think it is. It too shall go out of vogue. And when it does TCMA will put it to bed, turn out the light and go do what time tested arts do, continue to train.

Rant off.

haha want to watch the fire works or something?

Anyways, i'll disagree with you, I believe its the next evolution of TMA's. TCMA etc. I think people have gotten smarter in there search for MA's in the last years. They now see that to get complete MA's you need to learn the whole spectrum.
I'm not going to say that my first love wasn't TCMA but things change and the landscape of the TCMA/TMA has changed as well and is being absorbed.

[wenshu]

It is a slightly less scripted derivative of Professional Wrestling.

It can be entertaining but it usually just ends up with two guys laying on the ground hugging each other.

Really though, right now what else is there? Boxing is basically dead unless it can get its **** together and unify everything, which will never happen. The super six is an interesting idea, but even so, the cross organization promotional politics just eff everything the hell up.

As for the current state of Chinese martial arts; if it isn't wushu doing figure skating routines on the ground in silk pajamas, it is pretty much a bunch of pimply faced LARPers waving their arms around.

In conclusion; it all sucks, watch football instead.

[MightyB]

It is a slightly less scripted derivative of Professional Wrestling.

It can be entertaining but it usually just ends up with two guys laying on the ground hugging each other.

Really though, right now what else is there? Boxing is basically dead unless it can get its **** together and unify everything, which will never happen. The super six is an interesting idea, but even so, the cross organization promotional politics just eff everything the hell up.

As for the current state of Chinese martial arts; if it isn't wushu doing figure skating routines on the ground in silk pajamas, it is pretty much a bunch of pimply faced LARPers waving their arms around.

In conclusion; it all sucks, watch football instead.

You sir speaketh the TRUTH.

[mooyingmantis]

haha want to watch the fire works or something?


Yep, couldn't wait to see peeps panties getting tied in knots! :D

Seriously though, what evolution? Now peeps think it is wise to go to the ground in a street defense situation? Most schools I know of have trained to fight grapplers WITHOUT going to the ground. Why fight their fight? Yes, you should understand HOW they fight, but it doesn't mean you need to do it.

Realize that I trained in jujutsu decades before it was cool, way before it was a fad. It has its strengths, but it has its weaknesses too. TCMA ppeps should learn to exploit the weaknesses rather than changing their fighting style to accommodate the fad.

BTW, I posted this originally in the Kung Fu forum because that was the audience I was addressing. Whoever moved it here now makes it look like I was trying to start a flame war, which I wasn't.

[sanjuro_ronin]

MMA has been popular since the early 90's and has been a testing ground since the 70's.
Just looking at its modern competitive format, it's been around for a good 12 years and is part of mainstream TV and sports for a good, oh, 8 years at least, if not more.
Can it still be called a Fad ?

[goju]

but theres been a huge surge in popularity in the sport as of late that i feel will wane real quickly unfortunately

id definetly say mma has a shelf life. it will still be around years from now but it wont be very popular

[MasterKiller]

Considering most CMAists look like this

http://s48.radikal.ru/i120/1009/14/623e6091639f.jpg

you should pray it's not a fad.

[SoCo KungFu]

It cracks me up how many people fear change to such a degree that they deny the truth glaring in their faces...TCMA is almost as bad as religion...

[sanjuro_ronin]

It cracks me up how many people fear change to such a degree that they deny the truth glaring in their faces...TCMA is almost as bad as religion...

Hey, there's no need to insult religion.
:D

[goju]

but you cant say cma will out last it since cma is already dead:D

[SoCo KungFu]

Hey, there's no need to insult religion.
:D

The pope did acknowledge evolution. I suppose there is some hope

[sanjuro_ronin]

The pope did acknowledge evolution. I suppose there is some hope

He probably did it because someone had nude pictures of him going down on Bea Arthur.

[MasterKiller]

The pope did acknowledge evolution. I suppose there is some hope

He also said he wanted to baptize aliens.

[wenshu]

Considering most CMAists look like this

http://s48.radikal.ru/i120/1009/14/623e6091639f.jpg

you should pray it's not a fad.



Leave my mom out of this!

[SoCo KungFu]

He also said he wanted to baptize aliens.

How long before we have missionaries to Mars?

[goju]

How long before we have missionaries to Mars?


and outerspace jehovah's witnesses!!! aieeee!:eek:

[David Jamieson]

I don't think mma is a fad.

I do think that tcma will find an in to it and is already looking with san shou.

I think it's silly to proclaim yourself a martial artist without actually having fought or without actively fighting or without understanding that fighting is the project.

Otherwise, stick to qigong and yoga like us old guys. :)

[Dragonzbane76]

Seriously though, what evolution? Now peeps think it is wise to go to the ground in a street defense situation? Most schools I know of have trained to fight grapplers WITHOUT going to the ground. Why fight their fight? Yes, you should understand HOW they fight, but it doesn't mean you need to do it.

Realize that I trained in jujutsu decades before it was cool, way before it was a fad. It has its strengths, but it has its weaknesses too. TCMA ppeps should learn to exploit the weaknesses rather than changing their fighting style to accommodate the fad.

BTW, I posted this originally in the Kung Fu forum because that was the audience I was addressing. Whoever moved it here now makes it look like I was trying to start a flame war, which I wasn't.
__________________

if something doesn't find evolution it becomes stagnet and dies. No one is saying that you need to go to the ground in a street fight. I hate the BJJ nutriders as much as the next guy. But you have to look at the blinding reasoning behind MMA, it is evolution, behind grappling, behind clinch work, behind wrestling, it has it's place in the MA's as much as tcma does. I do not look down upon TCMA, in fact my first love of MA's was in the TCMAs. But I get tired of the pajama wearing "masters" taking money and teaching crap. Enough crap to get someone killed in a "real" fight. I also get tired of the douchbag mma wanna be, tapout wearing, I'm a bada$$ because i go once a week to a mma gym, that goes out and starts a fight because he thinks he has something to prove. It's a 2 way street in this affair.

[San Soo Sifu]

I also get tired of the douchbag mma wanna be, tapout wearing, I'm a bada$$ because i go once a week to a mma gym, that goes out and starts a fight because he thinks he has something to prove. It's a 2 way street in this affair.

Oh, I think you are being too generous there. I can actually give respect to someone who only trains once per week because of work, college, family, or religious commitments.

I would like to think the person you are describing is everything you stated, BUT doesn't train at ALL. Plus, add that he watches UFC pay-per-view events televised at a sports bar & grill, gets nice and hammered; and then he starts a fight because he thinks he has something to prove.;)

[goju]

it amusing though that mma has caused so many TMA guys to develop an inferiority complex with it.

I first heard about mma through a magazine i saw in a supermarket and i just thought it looked cool

that was the first impression i had not that oh- insert excuse here- or this or that i just thought it was interesting.

Most mma guys (and i mean real mma guys not the ones who pretend on forums) wont give you **** for practicing something exotic either, Hell if anything they were friendlier than most TMA guys i have met so i dont see why there is hostility towards it.

[Knifefighter]

It cracks me up to read so many posts here by peeps that seem to think that MMA will outlive TCMA. Peeps, its a fad. TCMA has endured communist repression, the kick boxing fad, the ninja fad and it will out last the MMA fad.

I am not against MMA by any means. It is a great sport. It has renewed the masses interest in martial arts. But it isn't the be all end all that some peeps think it is. It too shall go out of vogue. And when it does TCMA will put it to bed, turn out the light and go do what time tested arts do, continue to train.

Rant off. :)

Can't put the cat back in the bag after it has been let out. There will always be people who want to train hard and learn effective systems. BJJ, MMA, Sambo, Judo, boxing, Muay Thai- none of them are going anywhere.

TCMA will always be around also ... there will always be fantasy, theoretical non-fighters who want to pretend they are actually doing effective training.

[Knifefighter]

Y
Realize that I trained in jujutsu decades before it was cool, way before it was a fad. It has its strengths, but it has its weaknesses too.

No you didn't. The fact that you don't understand that shows how far removed you are from having any MMA knowledge.

[Knifefighter]

Now peeps think it is wise to go to the ground in a street defense situation?

The clueless people always post this.

Of course it is sometimes wise to go to the ground in a street situation (most police officers will testify to this), sometimes it is wise to stay standing, and sometimes you have absolutely no choice in the matter.

If you don't understand the fact that every street situation is different and situational, you've probably not been in many (more than likely any) of these situations and haven't even bothered to think it out.

[Syn7]

its annoying that alot of people believe they dont need to learn how to groundfight because their techniques are designed to keep them standing... that they can defend throws and takedowns and if they do go down they wont fight there, they'll get back up... and that belief clearly shows that these people have never fought any well rounded fighters... it is so EASY for a grappler to hold a guy down who doesnt know how to grapple... really easy... brute force is their only hope and even then, technique will overcome alot of force...

[Violent Designs]

The premise of ground fighting is position and control first and foremost.

If a trained grappler gets a HOLD of you and manages to drag you to their realm, you are screwed.

One reason I'm not gonna go out looking for street fights is the prevalence of the MMA boom, lots of guys with even RUDIMENTARY grappling skills can take me down and probably pound me out.

Despite the fact that I could probably break their nose and make them cry if they decided to strike with me, even against bigger guys with sh1tty striking.

This is why I am going to learn some Shuai Jiao for takedown defense and throwing people, it is really helpful....

[Dragonzbane76]

its annoying that alot of people believe they dont need to learn how to groundfight because their techniques are designed to keep them standing... that they can defend throws and takedowns and if they do go down they wont fight there, they'll get back up... and that belief clearly shows that these people have never fought any well rounded fighters... it is so EASY for a grappler to hold a guy down who doesnt know how to grapple... really easy... brute force is their only hope and even then, technique will overcome alot of force...

considering that when a grappler takes down "said" individual, they are essentially taking away the weapons of that person. They are controlling with leverage and position and dominating at the corners. It is just plain dumb to think that since i have all this nice stand up i can defend myself from the takedown. Fights are fights, they are unpredictable and you never know what is going to happen. In my thoughts why not train to understand the ground? It can only help you and advance you.

[Frost]

A couple of random thoughts:

1) Can something that has been around for over 50 years (and been a televised sport for about 2 decades) really be considered a fad? And if you consider its links to old school judo and catch wrestling its been around a lot longer than that

2) When you say kung fu has survived for decades which kung fu exactly are you talking about? The old school fighting style or the modern wushu art form?

I ask because the two most popular forms of Chinese martial arts at the moment have to be yang style short form tai chi and wushu…are you really arguing they are what original kung fu looked like?

I hope not because when we consider what TCMA has been through: The cultural revolution, the boxers getting beaten in the rebellion and general changes in society, what has happened is that a lot of arts have died out and some existing arts have changed so much that can they still be considered the same thing as they used to be?

I mean tai chi has survived but are you really arguing the new style yang short form so popular all around the world is the same as the old style chen form? Or that what is taught now in the Shaolin temple and surrounding schools is anything like old school kung fu?

And on a final note I love it when guys say they understand grappling because they did Japanese jujitsu decades ago, its like saying I understand boxing because I used to do boxercise in my cardio class :o) the movements may be similar but how you train them (and thus how you can actually use them) are totally different

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It cracks me up to read so many posts here by peeps that seem to think that MMA will outlive TCMA. Peeps, its a fad. TCMA has endured communist repression, the kick boxing fad, the ninja fad and it will out last the MMA fad.

I am not against MMA by any means. It is a great sport. It has renewed the masses interest in martial arts. But it isn't the be all end all that some peeps think it is. It too shall go out of vogue. And when it does TCMA will put it to bed, turn out the light and go do what time tested arts do, continue to train.

Rant off. :)

What cracks me up about this post is you say that TCMA will outlive MMA, that MMA is just a fad, but of course, you are not against it in anyway:rolleyes:

Here's a little secret, there is no be all end all concerning martial arts, there will always be someone who trains harder, knows more, and EVOLVES their art or fighting techniques. I just don't get why so many TCMA folks feel the need to say stupid sh**it like MMA will die, TCMA will rise from the ashes and overcome all again, WTF is that, a verse from the bible or something!:confused:

MMA is here to stay, and I love it. The reason is that I love TCMA and it keeps those who want to train for real in check, as well as the tools with an inferiority complex.

[MightyB]

Man - I was telling myself that I wasn't going to get into this one but...

TCMA is the b@st@rd offspring of what CMA was and is supposed to be. The closest thing in spirit to what old schoolers were about is Kajukenbo, San Soo, and Jeet Kune Do. Why you may ask? Why? Because they were in spirit supposed to be effective based on the needs of today taking the best of what was known and combining it for effectiveness in today's environment and testing it through combat. That, by definition, is what these TCMA styles were. Choy Le Fut - three names combined to represent the combination of three styles used by a guy who was a fighter. Praying Mantis - 17 fcuking styles combined to fight by a fighter. Eagle Claw - military chin na combined with the kicking style of fan tze.

What do these TCMAs have in common? They were frigg'n MMA styles created by MMA fighters. We cling to these dogmatic carcasses acting like were superior for doing so in the face of reality. The originators of these styles would be going to MMA gyms if they were alive today.

Rant over

[Knifefighter]

And on a final note I love it when guys say they understand grappling because they did Japanese jujitsu decades ago, its like saying I understand boxing because I used to do boxercise in my cardio class

+1000 for the truth.

[m1k3]

Look at the components of MMA. Wrestling's and boxing's origins go as far back as the beginning of recorded history. Ancient kingdoms all over the world practiced either boxing, wrestling or both. You just can't get much more traditional than that.

The majority of people who practice MMA or its components have no problems with those who practice "traditional" arts, up to the point where the traditional art begins to spew nonsense like too deadly to spar or street vs sport. A large number of MMA folks got their start in traditional arts. So the divide between them is pretty artificial. Some people like to train hard and spar and can do so in traditional and MMA gyms, some people like the work out and can do so in MMA and traditional gyms, and some people do their martial art as a hobby and can do so at both MMA and traditional gyms.

[wenshu]

The dominant methodologies in MMA are all derivatives of traditional arts.

To cling to a misguided romantic notion of traditional MA is needlessly short sighted and anemic.

The history of MA is a history of integration and evolution.

The gong fu practiced during the Song dynasty was not the same as that practiced during the Ming dynasty.

There were guys sitting around during the Song Dynasty *****ing about this new fangled Mantis style and how it was inferior to whatever style had been dominant. Probably because they had just had their asses handed to them.

In 50 years people will be moaning about how the traditional BJJ is superior to whatever evolution the form will have undergone.

Already we are seeing variations, rubber guard, single leg, whatever.

So on the one hand we have self delusional traditional romanticists who, while most likely aren't really training as traditionally as they think, chain punching their way into obscurity.

On the other hand, MMA dominant practitioners posting frequently on the Kung Fu topic of the Kung Fu Forum of Kung Fu Magazine etc is equivalent to hanging out at an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting to socialize even though you don't have a drinking problem.