Qigong not really practical for health

[Mr Serenity]

I am not here to offend people, or to troll Qigong, but after practicing it for about 6 months now I have really been questioning as to how practical it really is. I am an open minded person, but I am also no nonsense and a truth seeker.

I took up Qigong to possibly help better my health, as I have no health insurance and I have high blood pressure with bad skin/acne/break outs. I work out 5x a week, but even so I still have these problems. I did learn from a teacher and I rather not bad mouth him, as I believe he fully believes what he teaches works.

But for me it hasn't worked to improve my health. And I could never tell him this, that the techniques he taught me don't work. I believe that Qi exists, as you can feel it after a while. But what I think I don't believe in, is the ability to heal yourself with Qi. I don't believe that is practical compared to modern medicine.

With me having no insurance I *want to believe that Qigong can improve your bodies health, but my experience is showing otherwise. For 1 month I practiced a Qigong exercise on how to lower my blood pressure. I also did many things to reduce stress during this time and included my physical workout routine.

After my 1 month trial doing this exercise it was found that my blood pressure did not lower at all, that it remained the same. So after that I stopped practicing that Qigong technique and I got access to some medicine at a free clinic. Within 1 month my blood pressure went down, and to a normal level with this free medicine.

My Qigong teacher says that he doesn't take medicine, that way his body learns how to react when it gets sick. But for me, if I don't take medicine I put myself in danger. I also have asthma from a young age. It is well controlled with my medicine. But if I do not take maintenance medicine for my asthma and I jog 2 miles like I usually do several times a week I will wheeze very bad. This is out of my control, and unfortunately I do not think Qigong can help with any of the health problems I have.

If it can help with anything, maybe it can serve as meditation to calm the mind. But I do not see it as actually having health benefits besides that. If any of you guys think differently, or just want to comment feel free.

[taai gihk yahn]

it can depend on lots of factors; for example, what sort of qigong you are doing - qigong runs the gamut from lying down and doing internal visualization to rigorous kinetic aerobic work: it's not magic, but if you want to have a physiological effect, you need to target the proper systems in the right way; if you are depressed, doing internal imagery work may not be as useful as vigorous movements; similarly, HBP may respond better to seated respiratry type work - or not - qigong is not a unified field, and because there is such variety, to generalize it's efficacy or lack thereof is risky; I mean, there have been studies showing taiji can lower BP, so we can look at the components of what was involved: slow, intentioned movement could be one factor; of course, practicing together in a a social environment may be another, especially if your sample population are geriatric clients who are looking for social opportunities;
the other thing is that qigong is based on TCM principles; however, what people forget is that TCM does not diagnose HBP per se - although it may recognize patterns where hypertension is a factor, it will not focus on that one aspect per se, mainly because TCM doesn't measure BP specifically; so when a qigong guy says that it's good for HBP, he's probably feeding you some standardized routine that was used for a given TCM pattern that was correlated to HBP by some people at one point in time in order to try to give a "western" spin to TCM;

as far as healing yourself with "qi" - "qi" is not some sort of discreet entity like heat, or electricity or magnetism that you beam across the room at someone that zaps the disease - qi is a descriptive methodology that is used in TCM as a way to describe the net effects of a variety of dynamic processes; it's an organizational meme that has both diagnostic and prognostic power to a certain degree; of course, some people like to think that they are beaming health, love and granola at someone else, but that's not what's happening;

here's the thing to consider - in the one month that you practiced, how often, how consistently and most importantly, in what affective state? if you diligently did your exercises every day exactly as prescribed and made a point to never miss a session, and got stressed if you did or thought you might and whenever you practiced your intention was concertedly focused on lowering your BP, well, TBH, it's not surprising that you didn't! remember, BP is a highly volatile thing, and changes due to many different factors; of course, meds will change the bichemistry directly, which is why they work fast and consistently; but this is in effect overiding the physiological response to one's internal state of mind - and this may not be a bad thing, of course - but if you want to do it "naturally", then you must consider all the variables - so if u have high stress job, or genetic predisposition, or practice like a fiend everyday, well, ur BP may just not b going any lower; OTOH, if u approach ur practice in a non-expectant manner, cut yourself slack if u miss it, don' get too hung up on exactly replicating the moves and try instead to feel what your body wants to do, how it wants to move, and modify your practice according to your sense of your inner state rather than following an external "prescriton" without variation, you may have a better chance of ur HBP going down; again, just an example of why it may not "work" al the time - qigong is not a pill that works regardless of the other environmental factors - because it is a way of working "naturally", it will b more sensitive to a variety of infuences, and less rapid to change things (a month to lower BP w qigon, esp if it's chronic HTN, isn't all that much, really), but over time, it, in thery, will become more "effective"; of course, you may not hav that sort of time or may not wish to invest it into the practice, and indeed you may just not be the kind of person who can roll that way - and that's fine, that's why we have meds, and by all means, take them and don't feel like you are "cheating" - for al you know, you may outlive many a qigong master that way - no one can say for sure, and so don't get hung up on the method, do what works for you; of course, if u decide u like the qigong and feel good doing it, then keep at it, maybe over time it will help to change ur BP, and u might b able to decrease or even d/c ur meds (as long as u do this w ur doc fully aware, of course);

so while qigong isn't a cure-all, at the same time, given ur specific exprience, I would b cautious about generalizing - suffice it to say, your particular one-month qigong practice was not sufficient to the task of lowering your BP - but to say it's because qigong doesn't "work" is extrapolating in error and over generalizing;

[Mr Serenity]

taai gihk yahn,
I was practicing 1 technique faithfully for the hbp. That involved massaging my finger tips from left to right. Then I had 2 more that I was doing occasionally. One where you stand up and "expel" evil heat out of your system, and another where you sit down and deep breath meditation.

The deep breath one, was very basic and supposed to help for many things. I have been doing that one many months now. But even with that one, it does not help my skin over many months. I still have to wash my face with clearasil twice a day, and the Qigong does not help to clear it.

I was doing a spiritual style of Qigong. I still want it to work if it can. But all the time I spent on it, I do more or less feel it's not practical for health issues, especially when compared to modern Western medicine. Though soon I will be practicing a different style of Qigong from a different teacher that is a "martial style". Before practicing with him, I will tell him that I think Qigong doesn't work for health due to my experiences, but I want it to work if it can.

Since he is a martial style teacher, I think he will be more practical about it. Because me being a martial artist of several years myself, I say you should use what is effective. If you have to practice Qigong daily, for many months to get a positive effect on your health that is not effective compared to modern medicine of only a few weeks or less.

[taai gihk yahn]

taai gihk yahn,
I was practicing 1 technique faithfully for the hbp. That involved massaging my finger tips from right to left. Then I had 2 more that I was doing occasionally. One where you stand up and "expel" evil heat out of your system, and another where you sit down and deep breath meditation.

The deep breath one, was very basic and supposed to help for many things. I have been doing that one many months now. But even with that one, it does not help my skin over many months. I still have to wash my face with clearasil twice a day, and the Qigong does not help to clear it.

I was doing a spiritual style of Qigong. I still want it to work if it can. But all the time I spent on it, I do more or less feel it's not practical for health issues, especially when compared to modern Western medicine. Though soon I will be practicing a different style of Qigong from a different teacher that is a "martial style". Before practicing with him, I will tell him that I think Qigong doesn't work for health due to my experiences, but I want it to work if it can.

Since he is a martial style teacher, I think he will be more practical about it. Because me being a martial artist of several years myself, I say you should use what is effective. If you have to practice Qigong daily, for many months to get a positive effect on your health that is not effective compared to modern medicine of only a few weeks or less.

ok, if we r going to hav a conversation, you can't change your point in the middle of it; your first post was NOT a comparison between the efficacy of qigong and so-called "western" medicine (which is a misnomer, and a really poor way of classifying things, but whatever, I know no one really cares enough to be precise these days), it was you saying qigong "wasn't effective"; my point was to qualify that statement somewhat and point out some possible reasons why it didn't work in your case; if you note, I also said that if taking meds for HTN worked for u then by all means do that; but also, i pointed out that qigon, in order to have a real effect, might take longer than one month to "work", because it is engaging the bodiy's natural homeostatic mechanism in order to effect change - well, if you've spent 50 years of your life developing the environment for HTN to flourish, one month of qigong isn't really going to make all that much of a dent in it - it may take 6 months, a year, or more - if u enjoy the practice, if u feel good doing it, then u mite b willing to invest that amt of time to cultivate it; but of course HTN meds will work faster, because they push the physiology more directly - which is fine, and often will save your life before any qigong would have the chance to do so;

so to say that qigong is ineffective because it's not as efficient as taking meds is a bit off tack - qigong won't work as fast because by it's nature it's not designed to - it is a bit like gently nudging the system back on track - so it is a long-term practice designed to promote homeostasis - which is something that meds do not do inherently - they are designed to manage a particular issue; however, they often have side effects - and of course, side effects are better than being dead. but it's not a cultivation, and therefore you personally do not gain insite into your own self-condition, and do not develop the ability to help urself in certain cases where u might b able to;;

for example, myself - having done qigong for 15 years, although i do not practice daily at this point, I can still use it to do certain things - for example, if I feel a cold coming on that I wasn't able to prevent proactively, I can do certain qigongs to "speed up" my metabolism, to help push the cold through my system faster; or if I am having trouble sleeping, I can do certain qigongs to help me get to sleep - in both cases, I could use meds, but because I have trained over years, I do not need to do so; OTOH, if I had acute sepsis, I would be the first in line at the ER; also, I feel that my qigong practice has helped me be a lot less stressed out in general - does that mean it prevented my developing chronic HTN? I don't know; OTOH, I blew out L5 last year and had it surgically repaired; qigong didn't prevent that, but post surgically doing it sped up my recovery and decreased my post op pain more quickly than is the case typically for patients;

so it's not a cure-all, but it has health value, IMPE; but again, it's relative; and, I should say, I see it as an extension of myself - meaning I try to live it in terms of the principle, so even if i don't practice formally every day, I try to embody the practice in my daily life; which to me, is really what matters, and gets to the heart of taoist practice in general;

but if it doesn't wok for you, just move on - why stick w what isn't working? makes no sense...maybe try yoga, the approach is a lot more linear in terms of cause and effect, and u mite have more succes using that approach

[mawali]

I am not here to offend people, or to troll Qigong, but after practicing it for about 6 months now I have really been questioning as to how practical it really is. I am an open minded person, but I am also no nonsense and a truth seeker.

I took up Qigong to possibly help better my health, as I have no health insurance and I have high blood pressure with bad skin/acne/break outs. I work out 5x a week, but even so I still have these problems. I did learn from a teacher and I rather not bad mouth him, as I believe he fully believes what he teaches works.

But for me it hasn't worked to improve my health. And I could never tell him this, that the techniques he taught me don't work. I believe that Qi exists, as you can feel it after a while. But what I think I don't believe in, is the ability to heal yourself with Qi. I don't believe that is practical compared to modern medicine.

With me having no insurance I *want to believe that Qigong can improve your bodies health, but my experience is showing otherwise. For 1 month I practiced a Qigong exercise on how to lower my blood pressure. I also did many things to reduce stress during this time and included my physical workout routine.

After my 1 month trial doing this exercise it was found that my blood pressure did not lower at all, that it remained the same. So after that I stopped practicing that Qigong technique and I got access to some medicine at a free clinic. Within 1 month my blood pressure went down, and to a normal level with this free medicine.

My Qigong teacher says that he doesn't take medicine, that way his body learns how to react when it gets sick. But for me, if I don't take medicine I put myself in danger. I also have asthma from a young age. It is well controlled with my medicine. But if I do not take maintenance medicine for my asthma and I jog 2 miles like I usually do several times a week I will wheeze very bad. This is out of my control, and unfortunately I do not think Qigong can help with any of the health problems I have.

If it can help with anything, maybe it can serve as meditation to calm the mind. But I do not see it as actually having health benefits besides that. If any of you guys think differently, or just want to comment feel free.


I agree with you!
Many people try to 'market' qigong as a one size cure all method and this is the main cause of dissatisfaction for many. The presentation by many is also a big factor, to wit, "take my qigong and you will be cured of all your ills" syndrome.

As an example, qigong as a cure for asthma is a bad intro since the etiology does not lend itself to cure. We can surely assist it with the corresponding allopathic methods (anything opening the bronchial structure and nothing to aggravate the condition). Calming the mind also does not cure asthma but it may provide the clarity to examine self hygenic strategies to diminish the condition.
I had asthma as a child but when I moved from a temperate climate to a more Northern one, I had outgrown it! Perhaps a drier climate did alot to help and even diminish the condition.

[David Jamieson]

I am not here to offend people, or to troll Qigong, but after practicing it for about 6 months now I have really been questioning as to how practical it really is. I am an open minded person, but I am also no nonsense and a truth seeker.

I took up Qigong to possibly help better my health, as I have no health insurance and I have high blood pressure with bad skin/acne/break outs. I work out 5x a week, but even so I still have these problems. I did learn from a teacher and I rather not bad mouth him, as I believe he fully believes what he teaches works.

But for me it hasn't worked to improve my health. And I could never tell him this, that the techniques he taught me don't work. I believe that Qi exists, as you can feel it after a while. But what I think I don't believe in, is the ability to heal yourself with Qi. I don't believe that is practical compared to modern medicine.

With me having no insurance I *want to believe that Qigong can improve your bodies health, but my experience is showing otherwise. For 1 month I practiced a Qigong exercise on how to lower my blood pressure. I also did many things to reduce stress during this time and included my physical workout routine.

After my 1 month trial doing this exercise it was found that my blood pressure did not lower at all, that it remained the same. So after that I stopped practicing that Qigong technique and I got access to some medicine at a free clinic. Within 1 month my blood pressure went down, and to a normal level with this free medicine.

My Qigong teacher says that he doesn't take medicine, that way his body learns how to react when it gets sick. But for me, if I don't take medicine I put myself in danger. I also have asthma from a young age. It is well controlled with my medicine. But if I do not take maintenance medicine for my asthma and I jog 2 miles like I usually do several times a week I will wheeze very bad. This is out of my control, and unfortunately I do not think Qigong can help with any of the health problems I have.

If it can help with anything, maybe it can serve as meditation to calm the mind. But I do not see it as actually having health benefits besides that. If any of you guys think differently, or just want to comment feel free.

Well, it's not a panacea and it certainly isn't a single point remedy.

Qigong is often in concert with other lifestyle practices that support each other.

Have you examined your diet?

Are you expecting a cure for you asthma or are you looking for a way to regulate it better without drugs?

Perhaps qigong cannot help you. It certainly isn't going to cause you worse harm though.

I personally have benefited greatly in my health from qigong practice over many years.

[woliveri]

All Qigong exercises were not created equal. Teaching a Qigong exercise to someone should be approached just like a TCM doctor prescribes herbs. In a methodical progression towards an end result. You can't just give someone any Nilly Willy Qigong exercise to anyone and expect them to have results. You must tailor the exercise to fit that individual. Just as some herbs (tonifying) are given where someone who's system that herb targets is not ready for it, they will experience negative results.

Finding a good teacher (which is quite difficult) is important.

Absent of a teacher, I've heard good things about Terry Dunn's Flying Phoenix Heavenly Qigong DVD series.

[GeneChing]

It keeps my allergies at bay. My blood pressure still runs a little high at times, but I'll take the qigong over allergy meds any day.

You must be doing it wrong. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

It keeps my allergies at bay. My blood pressure still runs a little high at times, but I'll take the qigong over allergy meds any day.

You must be doing it wrong. :p

What qigong do you do for allergies dude?
Mine are horrible as of late !!

[Mr Serenity]

taai gihk yahn,
My teacher believes that Qigong can almost cure everything. That is why I compared it to Western medicine. Because if you have money, good health insurance like Western medicine can treat just about everything. With actual results. Not months without results. I aim to be a practical person, so that is why I brought it up. I just don't see the practical use in Qigong yet, besides meditation, but if there is a practical use for it. I'd like to see it eventually.


mawali,
Yes that is how my teacher thinks that it can almost cure all. And I have met a few people that think the mind can cure everything. This is nice to think, but it is not wise or practical logic in my opinion. Because I have a stronger will power than most people. Yet it is easy for me to see that my body has its limits and its faults.

For those faults, I need medication, or some very strong Qigong. My mind alone cannot revert my body to completely healthy.


David Jamieson,
My diet is average. Not too bad, not too good. I never go over 2000 calories a day, I also weight lift a heavy amount about 2-3 a week, so I need the 2000 calories a day at least. I am also not expecting a cure for my asthma through Qigong. I exercise a lot and have tried to not take my meds and just work out hoping my lungs will build resistance, but it doesn't work like that for me.

The more I work out without my meds the more I see that I need my meds not to wheeze. I doubt that Qigong can help with my asthma, never thought it could. Now my skin though. I have occasional acne break outs. Qigong *should be able to help with that at a minimum if it can do anything for your health. But it hasn't helped me with that in my 6 months practicing.


woliveri,
I agree that not all Qigong is created equal. Just the same as martial arts. The teacher is more important than the style. That's why I will go try another teacher/style soon, and maybe I will get better results. Thank you for the suggestion to the video.


GeneChing,
I could be doing it wrong. But I am doing it the way it was taught to me. It has helped me to calm down in many ways, that improves my mental health a bit. It is a good method of meditating. But it hasn't improved my physical health, probably at all. I have lost weight and gained substantial muscle this year, but that is due to cardio and weight lifting.

[bawang]

martial qigong is for helping muscle recovery after lifting weights and helping healing the hands after hitting bags etc.
a lot of martial qigong is weight excercises without the weights. some martial qigong are warmup excercises for weight lifting. for example lift the sky is a warm up and warm down for military press. it wont cure cancer lol

find medical qigong and do excercise like light weight lifting and running and see if theres improvement

and ur qigong isnt falun gong is it? lol

[MartialDev]

taai gihk yahn,
My teacher believes that Qigong can almost cure everything. That is why I compared it to Western medicine. Because if you have money, good health insurance like Western medicine can treat just about everything. With actual results. Not months without results. I aim to be a practical person, so that is why I brought it up. I just don't see the practical use in Qigong yet, besides meditation, but if there is a practical use for it. I'd like to see it eventually.

Perhaps instead of choosing a qigong teacher who believes that their method works, you should find a real qigong doctor whose numerous patients will happily testify that it works?

[Scott R. Brown]

Or you could just take a 30 minute walk everyday. Its free and it has been demonstrably shown to help lower blood pressure.

[tiaji1983]

I dont know if this is true... I read somewhere that Cancer is a deformed cell that grows and becomes tumors etc. I read that the deep breathing in Qigong further oxygenates the cell making cell growth, reproduction and regeneration easier and more efficient, preventing and in some cases curing cancerous cells. Not saying its true but I read it somewhere...

[Mr Serenity]

Or you could just take a 30 minute walk everyday. Its free and it has been demonstrably shown to help lower blood pressure.

Maybe you didn't read what I posted Scott, but I work out 5x a week. Cardio, and weight lift. When I go to the gym I don't drive, I jog almost 3 miles. All that and the Qigong did not lower my blood pressure until I took the meds.

[taai gihk yahn]

I dont know if this is true... I read somewhere that Cancer is a deformed cell that grows and becomes tumors etc. I read that the deep breathing in Qigong further oxygenates the cell making cell growth, reproduction and regeneration easier and more efficient, preventing and in some cases curing cancerous cells. Not saying its true but I read it somewhere...

well, by that "logic", the increased oxygenation of the blood would effect not only the normal cells but the cancerous ones as well, so if it makes "cell growth reproduction easier and more efficient" and being that cancer is essentially pathological cell division / propagation, you are basically "feeding" the tumor and speeding up its progression...

[bawang]

Maybe you didn't read what I posted Scott, but I work out 5x a week. Cardio, and weight lift. When I go to the gym I don't drive, I jog almost 3 miles. All that and the Qigong did not lower my blood pressure until I took the meds.

qigong cant cure any disease especially genetic disease. it relieve stress because u breath deep and slow. it improve ur bloodflow slightly also.

what kind of qigong did u do??

[Mr Serenity]

qigong cant cure any disease especially genetic disease. it relieve stress because u breath deep and slow. it improve ur bloodflow slightly also.

what kind of qigong did u do??

I did 2 forms for my blood pressure. One where you massaged the fingertips left to right. And another where you stand up and release evil heat towards the sky, while letting good chi enter you through sky door (head). I was also doing consistent cardio and weight training during this month to test if these forms lowered my blood pressure.

After one month testing these forms, blood pressure did not get lowered at all doing that Qigong till I took meds, even with my physical exercise. I also did deep breathing Qigong that is supposed to promote your cells to make everything go back to normal. But I still have acne problems even with doing that deep breathing Qigong. I don't have a name for this style of Qigong besides a spiritual style.

I wish it worked, but it just doesn't seem to work for me. Maybe it works as meditation to calm your mind, but that's probably it.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

It seems to me you have already concluded that QiGong won't work, if so, stop. "Yi leads Qi" (mind/awareness leads Chi), and it seems your mind is not willing explore the potential.. Out of curiosity, other than high BP and acne, have you noticed any other effects?

Be well..

[bawang]

I did 2 forms for my blood pressure. One where you massaged the fingertips left to right. And another where you stand up and release evil heat towards the sky, while letting good chi enter you through sky door (head). I was also doing consistent cardio and weight training during this month to test if these forms lowered my blood pressure.

After one month testing these forms, blood pressure did not get lowered at all doing that Qigong till I took meds, even with my physical exercise. I also did deep breathing Qigong that is supposed to promote your cells to make everything go back to normal. But I still have acne problems even with doing that deep breathing Qigong. I don't have a name for this style of Qigong besides a spiritual style.

I wish it worked, but it just doesn't seem to work for me. Maybe it works as meditation to calm your mind, but that's probably it.

massaging the fingertips is for helping healing hands after hitting bags. qi to the top of the head is for correcting spine alignment and warmup for head excercises.

qigong isnt magic, theres only so much it can do

[PalmStriker]

I started taking HBP meds about a year and a half ago, not realizing my blood pressure was going through the roof, It was a good thing I found out when I did before having a heart attack or stroke. Different conditions can cause HBP, I refuse to submit myself to all the testing a hospital stay will insist on, I found a doctor that just had me pay for bloodwork/lab and put me on a drug regimen that my metabolism can handle comfortably . Found out my colestorol is high so I've compromised my diet and take a statin drug for correcting that, for now. Generic drugs keep the cost way down. After 45 years or so most people have to start dealing with health props of some sort, the human body design what it is. Good luck on making sure you do what you need to do to stay healthy. :) Not to mention new findings by Chinese scientist: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100803132734.htm

[PalmStriker]

Fortunately for me I like hot peppers and make up my own private stock "hot oil" that I like to put on Ramen noodles( with tomatoes, lettuce, and often chicken, beef, shrimp or pork) that have steamed in a container for a few hours. Also good on sandwiches. I find Habenero peppers and hotter to be all heat (too hot) and less flavor than the cayenne's or equivalent that I use. My own recipe includes Tomatilla's , Cubanelle's and Hungarian peppers for enriching flavor. Bon Appetite! http://www.hotpepperlist.com/

[Mr Serenity]

TaiChiBob,
Right now, my main health problems are just what I mentioned. And I haven't completely made up my mind that Qigong doesn't work, I am open minded, but I do try to be practical. If Qigong could really cure my ailments I'd like to find Qigong that can do so effectively.

PalmStriker,
Thanks for the article. I actually probably eat more hot food than most people. I put red pepper flakes in most of my food, or hot sauce. I have actually toned down the heat I used to use in my food, over the recent years. When you use too many hot peppers then you'll start to get digestion problems.

[MartialDev]

I did 2 forms for my blood pressure. One where you massaged the fingertips left to right. And another where you stand up and release evil heat towards the sky, while letting good chi enter you through sky door (head). I was also doing consistent cardio and weight training during this month to test if these forms lowered my blood pressure.

After one month testing these forms, blood pressure did not get lowered at all doing that Qigong till I took meds, even with my physical exercise. I also did deep breathing Qigong that is supposed to promote your cells to make everything go back to normal. But I still have acne problems even with doing that deep breathing Qigong. I don't have a name for this style of Qigong besides a spiritual style.

I wish it worked, but it just doesn't seem to work for me. Maybe it works as meditation to calm your mind, but that's probably it.

For how many hours per day did you practice this qigong?

It is normal for serious people with serious problems to train for 4+ hours daily, for months, in conjunction with dietary and activity changes. This is the kind of prescription you get from a real expert qigong doctor. And yes, it is very "practical", when you want a solution and nobody else can provide it.

You don't use a cannon to shoot down a sparrow. So if pills solve your problems, then take the pills and be done with it. But it would be wiser not to speculate on what can be accomplished with dedication and the correct methods, based solely upon one's experience in a weaker commitment.

[Mr Serenity]

For how many hours per day did you practice this qigong?

It is normal for serious people with serious problems to train for 4+ hours daily, for months, in conjunction with dietary and activity changes. This is the kind of prescription you get from a real expert qigong doctor. And yes, it is very "practical", when you want a solution and nobody else can provide it.

You don't use a cannon to shoot down a sparrow. So if pills solve your problems, then take the pills and be done with it. But it would be wiser not to speculate on what can be accomplished with dedication and the correct methods, based solely upon one's experience in a weaker commitment.

I put the Qigong I learned to the test for a good amount of time, and it didn't work. If someone else did this I would want to know. I am a truth seeker no bullsh*t with me. If you have to practice Qigong 3-4 hours a day for it to work it's not practical compared to modern medicine. It sounds to me like the extreme diet and exercise is what brings the result. And believing in the Qigong would probably be the same in believing in a god hearing your prayers. Better to take the pill in 10 seconds, once a day, if the pill was made to give you results.

[Scott R. Brown]

Maybe you didn't read what I posted Scott, but I work out 5x a week. Cardio, and weight lift. When I go to the gym I don't drive, I jog almost 3 miles. All that and the Qigong did not lower my blood pressure until I took the meds.

If you are exercising regularly and you are not reducing your blood pressure, it is doubtful Chi Kung will be much benefit. It depends upon if your condition is due to genetics, diet, or due to other factors such as a generally stressful life or stress inducing attitude of life. Stress can be alleviated through Chi Kung, but genetically high blood pressure is a different matter.

It is more likely it is stress and diet though that are the factors contributing to your condition. If your general life attitude is stress inducing, one month to change a conditioned stress inducing attitude is unrealistic. It could take years to re-condition yourself to view life in a less stress inducing manner.

[woliveri]

If I say to you "How far is it to New York" the answer is dependent on where you're starting from. Having that if I say how long does it take to get to New York there's still the variable of the path taken.

Like I said before, all Qigong exercises are not created equal.

[Eric Hunstad]

Mr. Serenity

Diet is the way to go one this one. Cut out the salt, dairy, and meat. Diet should be 100% plant-based, whole foods. Is this extreme? Depends on your point of view. In my opinion, it is more extreme to take medication which causes unwanted side effects and further problems down the road.

Try it, what do you have to lose? Get a free vegetarian starter kit at www.pcrm.org

Eric Hunstad
ww.OldSchoolKungFuNow.com

[tiaji1983]

well, by that "logic", the increased oxygenation of the blood would effect not only the normal cells but the cancerous ones as well, so if it makes "cell growth reproduction easier and more efficient" and being that cancer is essentially pathological cell division / propagation, you are basically "feeding" the tumor and speeding up its progression...

Good point! :) Never thought of it like that.

But in my own opinion. Qigong and Taiji helped me with Femoral Patela Pain Syndrome, a slight case of Asthma, and High Blood Pressure. Also when I practice daily, just as if I were to just do physical exercise, I wont get sick, even if I just do Qigong and no physical exercises.

I know people Taiji and Qigong helped with Back Pain, Balance issues, Digestive problems, Acid Reflux, Arthritis, and Memory Problems.

My teacher has students that I met that recovered from Paralyzation and Heart conditions, also some people who were on terminal cancer that had thier expiration date that the Doctor gave them extended. It also improved thier quality of living and made them less sick during chemo. I also know someone with a brain anuerism that says Da Mo's seated xi sui jin helps him deal with his treatments better.

Ive also seen the theories behind the martial arts and Qigong help people recover from depression and bad life decisions. Not everyone, but some people... So if this does not say it is beneficial to practice it for health purposes, I dont know what is. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, and its not a miracle cure. But if it works, even if its just cuz its in the practitioners head, then it works.

[Scott R. Brown]

While anecdotal evidence is encouraging, it does not establish a direct cause and effect relationship. The Placebo effect works in roughly 33% of the population.

Having said that, certainly Chi Kung cannot hurt, and if it works or someone falsely attributes it to the cause of their personal improvements no real harm done.

Any stress reducing activity that involves a calming of the mind and the re-conditioning of a stress inducing life attitude will be of benefit regardless of whether it is Chi Kung, or Prayer, or Meditation, combined with dance, walking, yoga, Tai Chi, tennis, rowing, etc.:)

So it isn't quite Chi Kung that it important, it is an attitude change combined with regular body movement and this is what scientific studies demonstrate.

[GLW]

First, Qi Gong is not a panacea for everything. In the best of situations, it can take much longer than a few weeks to produce lasting changes.

Second, anyone with a medical condition would do better to get the condition under control and then supplement things with Qi Gong. In many cases, after the meds get blood pressure or whatever under control, regular Qi Gong practice can allow the person to reduce or in some cases, totally eliminate the meds over time. But again, it is about being patient and seeing what works.

Third, as stated, not all Qi Gong methods are created equal. In many cases, those with high blood pressure have to be very careful. It is not uncommon for blood pressure to elevate slightly with certain Qi Gong methods. It is for this reason that a good TCM doctor who is versed in Qi Gong is a good bet. The TCM doctor can tailor the Qi Gong practice to fit the person and situation. Also, as things progress, other adjustments to the method of practice may be needed.

It is easier to practice Qi Gong when healthy to maintain health than it is to start a practice of Qi Gong to alleviate a medical problem when the problem is in full swing.

[taai gihk yahn]

the thing that I am always concerned about is cross-systems application of a modality; meaning that qigong was developed from a classical Chinese medicine perspective, so its prescription is really based on diagnosing someone using that system; when you start using qigong for "western" (I hate the term, but whatever, not going to get on that soapbox right now) diagnoses, you are really using it incorrectly - for example, you might have 5 different TCM patterns that included HTN as one of the symptoms - and therefore you would, technically, need 5 different qigong prescriptions to resolve each of those imbalance patterns; so, because HTN on its own is really not something TCM would work with in isolation, there really isn't a qigong for HTN - because each HTN patient may have a different TCM pattern;

[taai gihk yahn]

But in my own opinion. Qigong and Taiji helped me with Femoral Patela Pain Syndrome, a slight case of Asthma, and High Blood Pressure. Also when I practice daily, just as if I were to just do physical exercise, I wont get sick, even if I just do Qigong and no physical exercises.
FPPS is usually due to imbalance elsewhere, like the hips and pelvis, but the knee bears the brunt of it; these areas are often congested due to chronic low grade inflammation that doesn't resolve because many people are living in a chronic low grade sympathetic / stress response mode; doing qigong involves activities that stimulate parasympathetic tone, thereby decreasing local and systemic inflammation, which is why things like low back pain can "disappear", elimination improve, and blood pressure to go down; so that's why u can do stationary / seated qigong and still have an effect; of course moving qigong / taiji will help as well to loosen tight areas that are stuck in a chronic holding pattern;


I know people Taiji and Qigong helped with Back Pain, Balance issues, Digestive problems, Acid Reflux, Arthritis, and Memory Problems.
no surprises, really; but I guarantee you that any program of slow, intentioned, socially oriented movement would do pretty much the same - especially if they had been sedentary beforehand...in fact, the profile you describe could easily be one person who has chronic dysfunction of the respiratory diaphragm muscle, which slow, gentle breathing could help relieve and cause improvement in all these areas; but it's not unique to qigong / taiji


My teacher has students that I met that recovered from Paralyzation and Heart conditions,
too vague to speak to;

[QUOTE=tiaji1983;1044757]also some people who were on terminal cancer that had thier expiration date that the Doctor gave them extended.
that happens all the time, with or without qigong; it is largely based on that docs give an estimate, because they really never know for certain;


It also improved thier quality of living and made them less sick during chemo.
of course, for all the reasons given above


I also know someone with a brain anuerism that says Da Mo's seated xi sui jin helps him deal with his treatments better.
no different than someone saying that knitting or praying to Baal helped them deal with their treatment


Ive also seen the theories behind the martial arts and Qigong help people recover from depression and bad life decisions. Not everyone, but some people...
"the foreign ginger is always more interesting"; meaning that we often need to do something outside of our normal context in order to resove issues within that normal context; it's why people have always sought out exotic answers to issues that they could have just as well dealt with locally - but that is human nature, it would seem


So if this does not say it is beneficial to practice it for health purposes, I dont know what is.
of course it's beneficial; but it does not necessarily confer this intrinsically


It may not be everyone's cup of tea, and its not a miracle cure.
there are no miracles; everything that happens, happens because the innate potential is there; we just may not have fully articulated the mechanism behind it, so it seems miraculous


But if it works, even if its just cuz its in the practitioners head, then it works.
there's no such thing as "just in your head" - if you have a belief that something will help you, it is not just in your head, because you get a bodywide physiological response; as far as not knowing or caring why that it works, wel, that's fine, but then one needs must avoid the danger of ovegeneralizing the results...

[Xiao3 Meng4]

When I start getting sick, I get uncoordinated: dizzy, fuzzy-head, weak, sometimes shaky limbs, and a feeling that everything is just a few millimeters off from where I think/feel it is.

Then I get a fever. I let it run rampant and do not bring it down with medication. Fever is an important component to healing. How I interact with it is a kind of Qigong. Most times, I drink lots of water, help the fever along with heat, and sleep.

When I get better, my energy levels rise again, I'm no longer dizzy or fuzzy headed, but I still feel slightly weak and uncoordinated, as though my nervous system shrank slightly.

This feeling is something I consciously work at preventing and/or correcting. A healthy nervous system means a healthy internal diagnostic system - which means early warning for injury, illness or infection.

So I do my Qigong. I find that by doing a form, it's possible to reclaim my coordination very quickly and I feel completely better soon after.

I do static relaxation Qigong during injury healing, moving Qigong for injury rehab, moving Qigong for joint health and core work, and either static or moving relaxation qigong for mental-emotional rebalancing and stabilization.

One of the benefits of Qigong is posture correction. Posture is a vital component to maintaining and developing good health. Correcting poor posture can alleviate many symptoms, including, in come cases, High blood Pressure. Proper posture also requires less energy to maintain, freeing up reserves for anything and everything from muscle exertion to brain work to metabolic and immunologic enhancement.

I therefore find Qigong to be practical for health.

[woliveri]

the thing that I am always concerned about is cross-systems application of a modality; meaning that qigong was developed from a classical Chinese medicine perspective, so its prescription is really based on diagnosing someone using that system; when you start using qigong for "western" (I hate the term, but whatever, not going to get on that soapbox right now) diagnoses, you are really using it incorrectly - for example, you might have 5 different TCM patterns that included HTN as one of the symptoms - and therefore you would, technically, need 5 different qigong prescriptions to resolve each of those imbalance patterns; so, because HTN on its own is really not something TCM would work with in isolation, there really isn't a qigong for HTN - because each HTN patient may have a different TCM pattern;

No, this is not what I was talking about. In Qigong, there are standing, sitting, breath based, alignment base, forced and more. Then there are the new age type qigong exercises which I feel have little or no benefit. Anyway, I'm saying you can't give a beginner forced or strong methods. This is an internal exercise. You need to determine where that person is in regards to health and internal strength before you give that individual an exercise.

I would see it as a Beginning, intermediate, advanced scenario rather than trying to find a qigong for a specific condition.

To the OP, I would suggest standing Wuji which is quite benign but very effective for health. It just takes time. Results come in months and years, not days and weeks.

[taai gihk yahn]

No, this is not what I was talking about.
well, considering that I wasn't addressing my remarks to anything you posted, that would make sense...


In Qigong, there are standing, sitting, breath based, alignment base, forced and more. Then there are the new age type qigong exercises which I feel have little or no benefit. Anyway, I'm saying you can't give a beginner forced or strong methods. This is an internal exercise. You need to determine where that person is in regards to health and internal strength before you give that individual an exercise.
I agree


I would see it as a Beginning, intermediate, advanced scenario rather than trying to find a qigong for a specific condition.
I would personally never give qigong to anyone for any medical condition if I were not a licensed medical practitioner (which includes TCM docs / licensed acupuncturists); any other qigong given outside of this context is recreational (or however one wants to call it) but it's not prescriptive per se



To the OP, I would suggest standing Wuji which is quite benign but very effective for health. It just takes time. Results come in months and years, not days and weeks.
it depends; I believe that someone can derive benefit from standing practice rather quickly, if the person working with them knows what to look for and how to utilize the changes that come about, such that the person gets appropriate feedback; for example, Alexander Technique lessons are in many ways similar to standing wuji practice, and people derive benefit from that pretty quickly when working with an experienced teacher; in my personal experience, I have worked on standing with patients and used it as a way of improving certain things relatively quickly, although admittedly in conjunction with other modalities, such as manual therapy (and let's be honest, a well articulated series of manipulation of the spine and accompanying soft tissue work can dramatically reduce the time that one would need to spend correcting such issues via standing practice alone; of course, if you only do the manual work and not the practice, the restrictions will come back)

[woliveri]

I would personally never give qigong to anyone for any medical condition if I were not a licensed medical practitioner (which includes TCM docs / licensed acupuncturists); any other qigong given outside of this context is recreational (or however one wants to call it) but it's not prescriptive per se


That depends on the what "medical condition" we are talking about. Asthma? IBS? Stomach or Duodenal Ulcer? Restless Leg Syndrome :eek:

These are different from Diabetes, High Blood pressure, etc.



it depends; I believe that someone can derive benefit from standing practice rather quickly, if the person working with them knows what to look for and how to utilize the changes that come about, such that the person gets appropriate feedback; for example, Alexander Technique lessons are in many ways similar to standing wuji practice, and people derive benefit from that pretty quickly when working with an experienced teacher; in my personal experience, I have worked on standing with patients and used it as a way of improving certain things relatively quickly, although admittedly in conjunction with other modalities, such as manual therapy (and let's be honest, a well articulated series of manipulation of the spine and accompanying soft tissue work can dramatically reduce the time that one would need to spend correcting such issues via standing practice alone; of course, if you only do the manual work and not the practice, the restrictions will come back)

Yes, I agree with your reply on time and results. When I said months and years I'm talking about seeing the accumulation of Qi and opening of Channels. Of course one can relieve stress immediately and since a lot of conditions are the result of stress then those conditions can improve.

[taai gihk yahn]

That depends on the what "medical condition" we are talking about. Asthma? IBS? Stomach or Duodenal Ulcer? Restless Leg Syndrome :eek:

These are different from Diabetes, High Blood pressure, etc.

it doesn't matter - unless one is a licensed health-care practitioner whose scope of practice encompasses prescriptive movement, one should not give out qigong (or anything medicinal for that matter) to anyone with any defined medical condition for treatment of said condition; meaning that if someone joins your qigong class w a medical diagnosis of some sort, it's fine for them to do the qigong, as long as you don't say "do this specific qigong, it will cure your condition";


Yes, I agree with your reply on time and results. When I said months and years I'm talking about seeing the accumulation of Qi and opening of Channels. Of course one can relieve stress immediately and since a lot of conditions are the result of stress then those conditions can improve.
agreed - there is a progression over time, but I just don't buy the old "practice for 10 years without expecting any results" schtick;

[woliveri]

meaning that if someone joins your qigong class w a medical diagnosis of some sort, it's fine for them to do the qigong, as long as you don't say "do this specific qigong, it will cure your condition";


Oh, I see what you're saying..... I Agree

[taai gihk yahn]

Oh, I see what you're saying..... I Agree

and, of course, it certainly doesn't mean that whatever you do in that class won't address their issue in someway, directly or indirectly and it's certainly possible that they may indeed have improvement in their medical condition as a result of the practice; and it doesn't preclude your doing specific qigong in the class that you think would benefit them for whatever reason, much as you might look at any of your students such as they are and decide to do certain moves / postures (since one assumes that they were cleared by a doc who ever would clear them for whatever sort of activity they are doing); in a way, by not specifically addressing the medical diagnosis (as long as they are in no danger or doing something contraindicated), it might give them some space to explore the practice without feeling the pressure if you will of "this has to work" (sort of what the OP had, in my personal opinion, going against him) - this is in a sense a "taoist" approach of meandering as opposed to going directly in a straight line to "solve" an issue...

[donjitsu2]

@ Mr. Serenity:

First off your main problem is you "jog 2 miles...several times a week". Have you even read a health and fitness magazine in the last 10 years? Stop doing stupid **** like that to your body to "get healthy". Jogging is for people who hate themselves.

You'd be MUCH better off tossing a kettlebell around several times a week. And if you absolutely have to run: do hill sprints 3 times a week instead.

BTW I find it difficult to believe that you workout as much as you say you do and still have high blood pressure. Something is fishy with your story.

Now, back to the topic at hand: Qigong.

You stated you only trained Qigong for a month. You aren't really in a position to judge the effectiveness of the method in such a short period of time.

I think your main problem is you are expecting a little too much from your Qigong practice. That isn't really your fault. The snake oil salesmen have been pushing Yoga, Tai Chi, and Qigong as though they are some miracle cure for quite some time and it has been a disservice to everyone.

Qigong is a part of a much larger healing system. It isn't the "end all, be all". You still have to watch what you eat, get plenty of exercise at higher intensities, and get plenty of rest. Now, Qigong can act as a hedge against a poor lifestyle but it can only do so much.

On a personal note: I use Qigong on a daily basis and have been for almost 10 years now. Like Gene, it keeps my allergies in check. It also helps me recover from workouts and I've even noticed an improvement in my performance during martial arts training and when lifting. It isn't my "magic bullet", but it does have it's benefits.

So, I can't say I agree with your assessment of Qigong.


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner (donjitsu2)

[Mr Serenity]

@ Mr. Serenity:

First off your main problem is you "jog 2 miles...several times a week". Have you even read a health and fitness magazine in the last 10 years? Stop doing stupid **** like that to your body to "get healthy". Jogging is for people who hate themselves.

You'd be MUCH better off tossing a kettlebell around several times a week. And if you absolutely have to run: do hill sprints 3 times a week instead.

BTW I find it difficult to believe that you workout as much as you say you do and still have high blood pressure. Something is fishy with your story.

I don't still have high blood pressure. It is at a normal level now. I took the meds for about two months, and don't take them all the time now, and my blood pressure is normal now.

But working out in conjunction with the "specialized Qigong to lower my blood pressure" for one month straight did not lower it when I did that test. It only lowered when I began to add the medication. And yes I do work out 5x a week. And I was told by my doctor to do cardio 5x a week for 30 min, that is why I jog to the gym and back 2x a week and the rest on an elliptical crosstraining machine.




Now, back to the topic at hand: Qigong.

You stated you only trained Qigong for a month. You aren't really in a position to judge the effectiveness of the method in such a short period of time.

I think your main problem is you are expecting a little too much from your Qigong practice. That isn't really your fault. The snake oil salesmen have been pushing Yoga, Tai Chi, and Qigong as though they are some miracle cure for quite some time and it has been a disservice to everyone.

Qigong is a part of a much larger healing system. It isn't the "end all, be all". You still have to watch what you eat, get plenty of exercise at higher intensities, and get plenty of rest. Now, Qigong can act as a hedge against a poor lifestyle but it can only do so much.

On a personal note: I use Qigong on a daily basis and have been for almost 10 years now. Like Gene, it keeps my allergies in check. It also helps me recover from workouts and I've even noticed an improvement in my performance during martial arts training and when lifting. It isn't my "magic bullet", but it does have it's benefits.

So, I can't say I agree with your assessment of Qigong.


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner (donjitsu2)

I have been training in Qigong for almost a year now off and on throughout the week. Different exercises, that don't even help with acne which I still struggle with. The point that I made was I spent 1 dedicated month using particular exercises that were supposed to lower blood pressure and it didn't work. If it truly was supposed to work like it was meant to, there should of been a difference. And there was no difference until I took an actual pill. The only thing Qigong has helped me with physically over the last year learning different techniques from it has only been to be more calm.

This has been my experience with it. I put it to a logical test and it didn't work for the things that my teacher said it would work for.
So whether you agree with me or not. I am sharing my experience that this Qigong I practiced for a year doesn't really improve my health. Other things improve it, such as western medicine. Maybe I need to learn other Qigong, but that's just how it goes for me.

[taai gihk yahn]

So maybe a better title for this thread would be "the specific qigong that I did that my teacher told me would lower my blood pressure didn't do that after one month" instead of generalizing that qigong is impractical for health...

Because then instead of a whole bunch of people posting about how qigon can work and u sounding like a broken record playing "it didn't work for me", u wud hav gotten a few people posting something like , "yeah, ok"

[woliveri]

So maybe a better title for this thread would be "the specific qigong that I did that my teacher told me would lower my blood pressure didn't do that after one month" instead of generalizing that qigong is impractical for health...


Agree here

[Scott R. Brown]

So maybe a better title for this thread would be "the specific qigong that I did that my teacher told me would lower my blood pressure didn't do that after one month" instead of generalizing that qigong is impractical for health...

Because then instead of a whole bunch of people posting about how qigon can work and u sounding like a broken record playing "it didn't work for me", u wud hav gotten a few people posting something like , "yeah, ok"

That would've been too easy!:p

[taai gihk yahn]

That would've been too easy!:p

and where's the pleasure in that? people pop a nice little chocky in their mouths, they don't expect to have their cheeks pierced!

[GeneChing]

sanjuro_ronin:
I do a variation of baduanjin. It's a compilation of several baduanjin forms that I've learned, plus some personal refinements. Note that it's not like I can stop an allergy attack if I do my baduanjin. I don't have as many attacks anymore since I've been doing it daily. I used to get floored for a week during spring. I went through a battery of cures, Western Rx, Eastern hocus pocus, you name it. I didn't start daily qigong for allergies at all. It was really icing when I realized that my allergies had subsided. I do notice that if I skip my baduanjin for a couple days, my allergies come back.

Mr Serenity:
Doing it the way it was taught you might not always be the best way if you're an inactive learner. What if someone taught you incorrectly? You've got to keep exploring it. I've learned dozens of baduanjin versions from different masters, many the top of their field (a perk of the job). I've still modified it to fit my needs. I have special needs. ;)

[Mr Serenity]

So maybe a better title for this thread would be "the specific qigong that I did that my teacher told me would lower my blood pressure didn't do that after one month" instead of generalizing that qigong is impractical for health...

Because then instead of a whole bunch of people posting about how qigon can work and u sounding like a broken record playing "it didn't work for me", u wud hav gotten a few people posting something like , "yeah, ok"

I was actually challenging and am still challenging Qigong. The way I was taught it, was in a way where it seemed to have cures for almost everything. And it didn't help me with anything physical really. And for the most part all I see people on this thread saying Qigong helped them with is allergies, and improving their work outs. Well those are very minor things, as I have allergies too sometimes, they're a seasonal, and temporary. They aren't a chronic disease, and can even be cured with over the counter pills under $7, or with sufficient sleep.

That is where my reasoning comes into play, where logically I believe that Qigong can probably not work effectively for any chronic disease the way they say it can.
And as for traditional Chinese Medicine, in the U.S. this is actually more expensive than Western Medicine. Many health insurance do not cover that, as they basically see it as wasting their money.

So if you were to seek out the aid of a TCM doctor in the U.S. it would actually cost you more, than to seek out aid by insurance or government help. So if you want to consider a cheap alternative to TCM in the U.S. Qigong is one of them, but is it effective in a way where you will actually see a difference? I wouldn't bet money that it is.

So by me making this thread, I wanted to see what Qigong did for other people. Because from my experience I did come to the conclusion that it is not really practical for health. It probably is as practical for health as practical as killing someone with a spoon is. You can kill someone with a spoon, but it will take a very long time, when you could just use a knife or even a blunted stick.

So maybe Qigong does work for some beneficial things that meditation can bring you. But to make people think it can cure chronic diseases? I still sort of feel like that is B.S.. As I *did practice it for many months, not just one month. It was one month that I dedicated to a particular set of techniques aimed towards the same result to see if they would make any difference at all. And usually 1 month of practice to just one thing if it is potent it will show a difference.

[woliveri]

Mr Serenity, you're not even a pup in the Qigong world my friend. Not even a pup.

[David Jamieson]

Mr. Serenity

Allegorically speaking, you have used crayons and were not satisfied when you were unable to render out a masterpiece oil painting with them.

qigong is not a "pop a pill - you're done" method.

I would go so far as to say your experience is not experience at all beyond a very superficial level of understanding.

You are at the beginning of the novel and there may very well be twists along the way that you have not encountered yet.

Your very air of determined negativity about it paints you in a dimmer and dimmer light with every call of "well it didn't work for me".

[taai gihk yahn]

I was actually challenging and am still challenging Qigong. The way I was taught it, was in a way where it seemed to have cures for almost everything. And it didn't help me with anything physical really. And for the most part all I see people on this thread saying Qigong helped them with is allergies, and improving their work outs. Well those are very minor things, as I have allergies too sometimes, they're a seasonal, and temporary. They aren't a chronic disease, and can even be cured with over the counter pills under $7, or with sufficient sleep.

That is where my reasoning comes into play, where logically I believe that Qigong can probably not work effectively for any chronic disease the way they say it can.
And as for traditional Chinese Medicine, in the U.S. this is actually more expensive than Western Medicine. Many health insurance do not cover that, as they basically see it as wasting their money.

So if you were to seek out the aid of a TCM doctor in the U.S. it would actually cost you more, than to seek out aid by insurance or government help. So if you want to consider a cheap alternative to TCM in the U.S. Qigong is one of them, but is it effective in a way where you will actually see a difference? I wouldn't bet money that it is.

So by me making this thread, I wanted to see what Qigong did for other people. Because from my experience I did come to the conclusion that it is not really practical for health. It probably is as practical for health as practical as killing someone with a spoon is. You can kill someone with a spoon, but it will take a very long time, when you could just use a knife or even a blunted stick.

So maybe Qigong does work for some beneficial things that meditation can bring you. But to make people think it can cure chronic diseases? I still sort of feel like that is B.S.. As I *did practice it for many months, not just one month. It was one month that I dedicated to a particular set of techniques aimed towards the same result to see if they would make any difference at all. And usually 1 month of practice to just one thing if it is potent it will show a difference.
let's just say that, if you want to talk about something "working", a single person's anecdotal experience goes almost nowhere in terms of determining generalized efficacy; so just as one person's claim that qigong is a great cure-all because they had what they believed to be a positive effect cannot be substantiated, so too for one person to generalize that it doesn't work based on their own personal experience means very little;

again, no one can contradict your personal experience, nor too could anyone logically argue with your position that for you it makes more sense to invest in medications for your issues; and indeed, it would be the case for many people to do so; OTOH, I personally have worked with people for whom this route did not work when it came to their personal issues of chronic pain and dysfunction, for whom a pharmacological solution was not forth coming - for them, qigong practice was one of several methods that contributed to a signifiant improvement in their lives - but again, this was for a specific population, I am not generalizing to everyone - which is why you should not do so as well;

in fact, to generalize, one needs must conduct studies with sufficient validity and reliability to say anything in general; as such, a little perusal of the extant research on taiji / qigong will demonstrate that in fact there have been studies carried out demonstrating its positive effects, as well as those that have shown no difference; of course, every study has its flaws, and researching this sort of thing is inherently difficult, but the indications are out there that, at least under certain controlled circumstances, it "works"; certainly, more research needs to be done, but there is enough evidence out there that for someone to claim "qigong doesn't work at all", goes against a growing body of relatively objective data; so go do some homework before you make blanket statements, or just stick to the nature of your own experience;

as for your argument about TCM being less cost effective than "western" medicine, I can only say that if you understood the issue a bit more thoroughly, you would realize that this claim is a poorly-thought-out generalization as well; but that's as may be;

[mickey]

Hello Mr Serenity,

One of the things that I suggest that you do is look at your workouts. How intense is it? There is a weight training method that allows for strength training and aerobic benefits. It is called Peripheral Heart Action (PHA). One of its major proponents is Bob Gajda. I remember reading somewhere that he felt that doing consecutive sets of a particular exercise was not the best thing long term and that it brought about issues with blood pressure. PHA appears to be finally taking off. There is more and more info being put up about it on the net. You may want to do some research on that.

When it comes to any type of exercise involving Chi/Qi, there MUST be a phase where the energy is first built up. Equally important are dispersals that ground any excess energy accumulated. The type of Qigong that you do seems to lean heavy towards acupressure and reflexology. I don't know when you fit your practice in; but, it should be before you do anything else. And that includes running. This follows the rule of: "first build up chi; then you move it". See my thread here:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58558

My experience with chi is not imaginary. It is real. I have no need to intellectualize about it with you. Oh, by the way, you cannot FORCE THE ISSUE with chi or CHALLENGE IT. You have to leave the ego completely out of it and surrender. If you have difficulty doing that, I suggest you try something that helps with surrendering the ego: Yoga. It is a great discipline. It is one of those gifts that you can give yourself that keeps on giving. It fits in nicely with weight training. Just make sure that you pick someone who has gone beyond the asanas (posture) and can guide you into the meditative practices. For some the asanas will be enough. Once you have learned to surrender, you are ready to learn any serious chi practice.

My best to you

mickey

[taai gihk yahn]

Once you have learned to surrender, you are ready to learn any serious chi practice.
countering one gross generalization with another gross generalization only makes matters worse

[mickey]

Hi TGY,

It is not gross. Reread his posts.


mickey

[taai gihk yahn]

Hi TGY,

It is not gross. Reread his posts.


mickey

it has nothing to do with his posts; your assertion that in order to to be able to do "serious chi practice" requires one to "surrender" is a broad generalization and your own projection that, while may be true for you personally, is not in any way a pre-requisite for others to be able to do so;

[mickey]

Hi,

I see where you are coming from. And I agree with you. I was actually being specific to him and not to everyone. I sensed that he objectifies (is that a word) his practice. His ego is very present in the writings and I sensed that it was getting in his way to real progress.

Then again, only he would know that.

mickey

[Mr Serenity]

Hello Mr Serenity,

One of the things that I suggest that you do is look at your workouts. How intense is it? There is a weight training method that allows for strength training and aerobic benefits. It is called Peripheral Heart Action (PHA). One of its major proponents is Bob Gajda. I remember reading somewhere that he felt that doing consecutive sets of a particular exercise was not the best thing long term and that it brought about issues with blood pressure. PHA appears to be finally taking off. There is more and more info being put up about it on the net. You may want to do some research on that.

When it comes to any type of exercise involving Chi/Qi, there MUST be a phase where the energy is first built up. Equally important are dispersals that ground any excess energy accumulated. The type of Qigong that you do seems to lean heavy towards acupressure and reflexology. I don't know when you fit your practice in; but, it should be before you do anything else. And that includes running. This follows the rule of: "first build up chi; then you move it". See my thread here:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58558

My experience with chi is not imaginary. It is real. I have no need to intellectualize about it with you. Oh, by the way, you cannot FORCE THE ISSUE with chi or CHALLENGE IT. You have to leave the ego completely out of it and surrender. If you have difficulty doing that, I suggest you try something that helps with surrendering the ego: Yoga. It is a great discipline. It is one of those gifts that you can give yourself that keeps on giving. It fits in nicely with weight training. Just make sure that you pick someone who has gone beyond the asanas (posture) and can guide you into the meditative practices. For some the asanas will be enough. Once you have learned to surrender, you are ready to learn any serious chi practice.

My best to you

mickey


Mickey,
When I work out I do go to my very limits and past. I do several sets on different machines, basically what most do at the gym. I will look into PHA and yoga. When I meditate I do not expect much. I do it mostly to calm myself, and help get a more clear perception throughout my day. But naturally I am a confrontational and honest person. When I was being taught Qigong I was taught that each exercise could be used to cure a specific disease. I am by no means a sheep. I try to be logical, but not oblivious.

So obviously I put what I was learning to the test. Some people seem to get angry at what I am posting, but I am not posting flames. I am posting what I have experienced. To me it is the truth, as the topic of this title is that Qigong is not really practical for health. Here is the definition of practical. Practical: Likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances.

In my experience Qigong was not effective or practical for what it was taught to me to do, and thus I shared my experience. I never said I didn't believe in chi. I just noticed that over the months I practiced it didn't seem to do what my teacher said it was supposed to do. If you have to do something for many months in order for it to work maybe it's not practical, maybe you have to do something different to get efficient results, that is how you find what is practical.

I am a martial artist and a competitor at heart. I have won many competitions. So I do look for what works with results and no nonsense. Is that an ego problem of mine, or just me trying to be practical? Maybe it's just the way different people look at it.

[mickey]

Hi Mr Serenity,

The ego thing is something I sensed from your writings. There is always the chance that I could be wrong.

Nevertheless, I wish you the very best in addressing your health issue.

Take good care,

mickey

[tiaji1983]

I was actually challenging and am still challenging Qigong. The way I was taught it, was in a way where it seemed to have cures for almost everything. And it didn't help me with anything physical really. And for the most part all I see people on this thread saying Qigong helped them with is allergies, and improving their work outs. Well those are very minor things, as I have allergies too sometimes, they're a seasonal, and temporary. They aren't a chronic disease, and can even be cured with over the counter pills under $7, or with sufficient sleep.

That is where my reasoning comes into play, where logically I believe that Qigong can probably not work effectively for any chronic disease the way they say it can.
And as for traditional Chinese Medicine, in the U.S. this is actually more expensive than Western Medicine. Many health insurance do not cover that, as they basically see it as wasting their money.
So if you were to seek out the aid of a TCM doctor in the U.S. it would actually cost you more, than to seek out aid by insurance or government help. So if you want to consider a cheap alternative to TCM in the U.S. Qigong is one of them, but is it effective in a way where you will actually see a difference? I wouldn't bet money that it is.

So by me making this thread, I wanted to see what Qigong did for other people. Because from my experience I did come to the conclusion that it is not really practical for health. It probably is as practical for health as practical as killing someone with a spoon is. You can kill someone with a spoon, but it will take a very long time, when you could just use a knife or even a blunted stick.

So maybe Qigong does work for some beneficial things that meditation can bring you. But to make people think it can cure chronic diseases? I still sort of feel like that is B.S.. As I *did practice it for many months, not just one month. It was one month that I dedicated to a particular set of techniques aimed towards the same result to see if they would make any difference at all. And usually 1 month of practice to just one thing if it is potent it will show a difference.

I thought TGY gave me reasons why Qigong and Taiji cured my knee pain... Even if its not because of Qi, doesnt that still make it practical to cure a chronic ailment?