MMA website

[EarthDragon]

not to start controversy over this and not try to hurt feelings but why dont all the MMA on here create a MMA website so you can discuss the intertest that you share insead of coming onto a kung fu website and speaking badly about it?

It would seem this would aliviate alot of this bickering about who's badder and whats better.

I dont log onto boxing websites and talk about how limited boxing is so why do the MMA guys do it here on a kung fu website?

I know its the MAIN board that gets most of these discussions but it is a kung fu magazine who created and host this board, so to me it doenst make much sense. unless of course they have some sort of self justification to prove to themselves.

serious replies only

[David Jamieson]

there is an mma board on here.

although I would say that is not the agenda of those who insist on inserting their "this training is superior to your pyjamas" ad nauseum shpiel.

mma can be learned from, it's an simple enough observation.

claims of "better than" are as old as the hills.

It's a forum, it's all talk.

People that want to actively fight will fight.
People who are interested in history will pursue that.
Guys interested in forms and styles, lineages et al, they'll do that.
And the tide ebbs and flows twice in a day. :)

[EarthDragon]

I realize there is a MMA board on here but strangley enough none of the MMA vs Kung fu guys post on there(*^!@!$#@&^$*(&*_ WTF why not? this is very confusing, so MMA lovers would rather come on the KUNG FU board and bash kung fu then log onto the MMA board and talk there?

God love the internet

[YouKnowWho]

When I was in a Judo forum, one guy said, "You are not even a Judoka. Nobody care about your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?" I left that forum soon after that.

If it works for me, it may work for others.

[EarthDragon]

you would think that this board would do the same however we continue on the same redundant conversation.

[David Jamieson]

When I was in a Judo forum, one guy said, "You are not even a Judoka. Nobody care about your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?" I left that forum soon after that.

If it works for me, it may work for others.

I don't know, you've got that spike ring and all... :p

[SanHeChuan]

Forums where everyone agrees are dead.

[EarthDragon]

sanhechaun, good answer... thats why I asked the question, I would have never thought of it in that way, thank you

[YouKnowWho]

Forums where everyone agrees are dead.

Forums where people just argue for the sake of argument will soon be dead too. One drop of the rat's poop can destroy the whole pot of good soup. One unfriendly member can destroy the harmony of the whole forum.

[EarthDragon]

if they trained as much as they defended thier sport they would all be champions:D

[YouKnowWho]

I don't watch FOX news, but when CNN and MSNBC responsed to Glenn Beck's comment, it just help Glenn Beck to get more publicity. Sometime it's the fault of the CNN and MSNBC.

Sometime I tried to drag "combat" into "self cultivation" discussion, when people just ignored my comments, soon I try to stay out of those discussion. Everybody is happy, the problem is solved, and the world is so peaceful.

Again, if it works for me, it may work for others.

[David Jamieson]

In order to bring the topic of combat into a topic of self cultivation, saving a maiden has to be factored in. :)

[David Jamieson]

if you're gonna copy and paste some article from the readers digest you should credit the author.

[goju]

I dont log onto boxing websites and talk about how limited boxing is so why do the MMA guys do it here on a kung fu website?


To posture mostly

though not all of them are like that some are/were kung fu guys or are interested in kung fu and like the magazine

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Concerning the topic of the thread, MMA is a large staple in the martial arts community, whether or not you consider that good or bad is up to you. But you will always see this argument, no matter how old and tired it is, and it is old and tired. There are antagonists on both sides of the argument, and I see threads pop up such as this from both sides. My thoughts are that discussion on martial arts is healthy. Yes, it is a Kung Fu forum, yes most people here study or have studied some form of Kung Fu in the past.

But I find the best discussions are about training methods and how they benefit one's art of choice. There are many things Kung Fu can learn from MMA, equally, there are many things MMA can learn from Kung Fu. Of course, most people would rather pi**ss and moan.:D

[David Jamieson]

"Here's a snippet from The Cluetrain Manifesto that explains the phenomenon as good as any:"

WOW! You really are as stupid as I thought you were.

Dale, you are a tiny and bitter man with a tiny and bitter mind. I feel pity for you. so old, so tiny, all shriveled up and still so bitter and mean at heart. It's fun taunting you though. hee hee :D

[Drake]

"Here's a snippet from The Cluetrain Manifesto that explains the phenomenon as good as any:"

WOW! You really are as stupid as I thought you were.

That's not even close to a proper APA citation. Geez. Kids these days.

[Hardwork108]

Concerning the topic of the thread, MMA is a large staple in the martial arts community, whether or not you consider that good or bad is up to you. But you will always see this argument, no matter how old and tired it is, and it is old and tired.

The problem is that we always see this argument in the Kung Fu threads and forums, and not the MMA ones!


There are antagonists on both sides of the argument, and I see threads pop up such as this from both sides.
You know very well that the main antagonism comes from the MMA camp!



My thoughts are that discussion on martial arts is healthy. Yes, it is a Kung Fu forum, yes most people here study or have studied some form of Kung Fu in the past.

So they say, but I doubt that most people here have had proper training under a proper sifu, or else they would not insist on making clueless criticizms of the TCMAs.

What we suffer in this forum is the phenomenom of many Mcdojo trained former "kung fu-ists", who are now preaching the MMA ways, without having to admit that they had been duped by Mcdojo/kwoon marketing. So, they put down and criticize traditional CMA practices that are way above their heads, just to sell us their post Mcdojo, MMA "enlightenment"!


But I find the best discussions are about training methods and how they benefit one's art of choice. There are many things Kung Fu can learn from MMA, equally, there are many things MMA can learn from Kung Fu.
To know exactly what MMA has that Kung Fu can benefit from, one would first need intensive training in TCMA, under an authentic sifu, in an authentic kwoon, as solid and authentic MMA training does not qualify one to judge and disrespect traditional practices that one does not understand!

How many of the MMA kung fu critiques have done that in this forum?




Of course, most people would rather pi**ss and moan.:D

Unfortunately, most of the p!ssers and moaners in question are MMA-ists, and that is what the subject matter of this thread is highlighting, in due fact of this being a Kung Fu forum!!

[Syn7]

i have a well respected tcma sifu... also when the kids started getting into the mma and muaythai he went and get us a bunch of sparring gear... he's happy we wanna hit eachother... and lots of guys there just do that one style but theres a few of us that do other styles aswell... some of the most senior guys are more than willing to recognize the merrit of full contact and grappling etc...

[Hardwork108]

i have a well respected tcma sifu... also when the kids started getting into the mma and muaythai he went and get us a bunch of sparring gear... he's happy we wanna hit eachother... and lots of guys there just do that one style but theres a few of us that do other styles aswell... some of the most senior guys are more than willing to recognize the merrit of full contact and grappling etc...

The practice of full contact training and even grappling are not limited to MMA schools. There are kung fu schools, as well as karate schools.:)

[RenDaHai]

@ Forum Topic,

I was about to start the same thread! I'm so bored of this old conversation. COmparison of technique is fine, but when after a couple of posts it just turns into all out MMA vs KungFu. I mean i think most people understand what it is to train realistically but a lot of people don't train realistically because they are interested in other areas of kung fu, and thats fine. Its a silly argument now.

I mean could we not have a 'Pure Kung fu' forum for example where people can discuss stuff like forms , techs and philosophies and histories and theories and unusual styles without some F@ckwit coming on and saying the 'forms are useless for combat'.... ' that style is pointless against a grappler.'.... I mean, so what, thats not new info, people still want to discuss these things. Who cares anymore? Every argument has been heard and evaluated and no ones orientation has changed. The other forums like shaolin or mantis are more serious, but there are many styles of kung fu that don't fit into any of the categories and now that china has opened up a bit a lot more styles are becoming available. I think a 'pure kung fu' forum would be fun.

I mean where are styles like LiuHeQuan, ZhaQuan, Xinyiqan, Tongbei, Chuojiao, Fanzi, COntempary wushu, Hua quan, Chuan quan, Baihuquan, Baji quan, Mianzhang, YanQing, Mizong, EMEI Pai, Wudang Pai, Hong Quan, Erlang quan, GongLi quan, Pao quan, Pi Gua, Taizu, SunBin, Wen jia, Jin SUo quan, Gangroufa, HuZunquan, Mei Hua quan, Tian Gang quan, yumenquan, kongmen quan ETc etc, and thats just of the top of my head.... These are northern styles, where are they supposed to be discussed?

[EarthDragon]

hardwork 108,

[QUOTE] I doubt that most people here have had proper training under a proper sifu, or else they would not insist on making clueless criticizms of the TCMAs.

What we suffer in this forum is the phenomenom of many Mcdojo trained former "kung fu-ists", who are now preaching the MMA ways, without having to admit that they had been duped by Mcdojo/kwoon marketing. So, they put down and criticize traditional CMA practices that are way above their heads, just to sell us their post Mcdojo, MMA "enlightenment"!

To know exactly what MMA has that Kung Fu can benefit from, one would first need intensive training in TCMA, under an authentic sifu, in an authentic kwoon, as solid and authentic MMA training does not qualify one to judge and disrespect traditional practices that one does not understand!

Here here! great post HD

rendaihai

I mean could we not have a 'Pure Kung fu' forum for example where people can discuss stuff like forms , techs and philosophies and histories and theories and unusual styles without some F@ckwit coming on and saying the 'forms are useless for combat'.... ' that style is pointless against a grappler.'.... I mean, so what, thats not new info, people still want to discuss these things. Who cares anymore? Every argument has been heard and evaluated and no ones orientation has changed. The other forums like shaolin or mantis are more serious, but there are many styles of kung fu that don't fit into any of the categories and now that china has opened up a bit a lot more styles are becoming available. I think a 'pure kung fu' forum would be fun.

Another great post! these points you guys brought up is exactly what i was talking about, thank you

[YouKnowWho]

What I don't understand is why some people still try to convince Glenn Beck that Obama is a good president.

Do you guys just have too much free time and can't find any meaningful things to do?

[Hardwork108]

What I don't understand is why some people still try to convince Glenn Beck that Obama is a good president.

Do you guys just have too much free time and can't find any meaningful things to do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw





.

[Hardwork108]

hardwork 108,


Here here! great post HD

Thank you Earth Dragon, :)

That is why I get so much hassle from the MMA "grandmasters" of this forum. It is very difficult to discuss a genuine TCMA methodology when we have MMA-ists who will jump in and label that methodology as "fantasy", and "fake", etc. This happens time and again, and in a KUNG FU forum, at that.

Then sometimes we have Kung fu newbies, coming to this forum for advice about the TCMAs, and they are many times being told to cross train in BJJ, Muay Thai, and so on, to "improve" their kung fu, by people who have never really trained authentic kung fu in their lives.

I know, one couldn't invent this stuff....LOL!

Anyway, I hope some of the MMA people here will get the message of your thread and keep their "enlightening" comments limited to the MMA threads and forums. I am also hoping that they only make their presences felt in the kung fu threads, through more respectful posts, including genuine questions regarding methodologies that they do not understand.

That way, they can also learn about the TCMAs, instead of trying to "teach" us about the supposed "superiority" of the MMAs.

[Dragonzbane76]

The problem is that we always see this argument in the Kung Fu threads and forums, and not the MMA ones!

how do you know you go to mma forums and read up? honestly it's just as bad or worse on mma forums, go over to bullshido and you'll see that they have whole sections about how sh!tty TCMA are. Go to sherdog, mma junkie, etc. again whole sections on just that. So it's not just here, if your going to comment on something at least know something about it.

you guys b!tch to much, seriously, it's a free forum, who cares if you don't like it go somewhere else. To much "truth" in what people are saying got you guys running scared or something? Last I checked people can post pretty much what they like, I'm glad people like you aren't moderators or we would have a bunch of stuffy, pajama wearing, paranoid, "basement masters" here. seriously what happened to free thought and free discussion?

[Syn7]

The practice of full contact training and even grappling are not limited to MMA schools. There are kung fu schools, as well as karate schools.:)

oh, we dont grapple much and we dont have any ground fighting... i just said we have members that understand its needed to be a complete fighter and do it elsewhere... when we go to bak mei, we learn bak mei... nothing else...


and no, i think we've pretty much beaten this dead horse into dust, there is no ground fighting in tcma... and grappling is rudimentary and limited at best...

im just saying our sifu recognizes the merrrit in these practices...


so if you know the real kung fu, what is your answer to a double leg? how do you protect both levels in your standup??? how do you train that?? do you call in guys as opponents that actually have the ability to change levels on you in the way you would need to practice defending it???

what is it about what you train that is so different from the majority???


most martial arts arent complete, infact i cant think of one that is complete... the only way to round out is to study more styles... learn to defend against them...

[Frost]

not to start controversy over this and not try to hurt feelings but why dont all the MMA on here create a MMA website so you can discuss the intertest that you share insead of coming onto a kung fu website and speaking badly about it?

It would seem this would aliviate alot of this bickering about who's badder and whats better.

I dont log onto boxing websites and talk about how limited boxing is so why do the MMA guys do it here on a kung fu website?

I know its the MAIN board that gets most of these discussions but it is a kung fu magazine who created and host this board, so to me it doenst make much sense. unless of course they have some sort of self justification to prove to themselves.

serious replies only

Firstly it’s a free forum anyone can post, secondly every single one of what you call MMA guys has trained in some form of kung fu: Some have trained extensively under well known masters, some still train it, some consider what they do to be TCMA in its truest form, some are still interested in it and some are just curious and cant understand why when everyone talks about how good TCMA is for fighting no one can point to it in action and wonder how come when everyone agrees most TCMA sucks and is taught incorrectly by 90% of schools every single kung fu guy on this forum somehow managed to find one of the handful of authentic masters to train under (although they wont post who that master is or post any clips of them training ) :o)

Some of us also found pervious posts by the likes of merry dale and ross helpful in our training and now try to pass on what we believe was helpful to us in our evolution as martial artists…and some of us are just bored and like to start fights :o)

Notice no one, not even knife fighter has a go about people training for training sake or because they like the art, most of us respect that approach, where we do comment is on actual fighting training and application, grappling and training principles because that’s what we know, and those of us that know about some styles also post about them.

If you don’t like what we post fine don’t read it and ignore us, if you disagree with our points of view intelligently argue your point and include evidence to back up your assertions, if we post something you find offensive report it to the moderators but quit whining and moaning it makes you sound like a girl :o)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The problem is that we always see this argument in the Kung Fu threads and forums, and not the MMA ones!


You know very well that the main antagonism comes from the MMA camp!




So they say, but I doubt that most people here have had proper training under a proper sifu, or else they would not insist on making clueless criticizms of the TCMAs.

What we suffer in this forum is the phenomenom of many Mcdojo trained former "kung fu-ists", who are now preaching the MMA ways, without having to admit that they had been duped by Mcdojo/kwoon marketing. So, they put down and criticize traditional CMA practices that are way above their heads, just to sell us their post Mcdojo, MMA "enlightenment"!


To know exactly what MMA has that Kung Fu can benefit from, one would first need intensive training in TCMA, under an authentic sifu, in an authentic kwoon, as solid and authentic MMA training does not qualify one to judge and disrespect traditional practices that one does not understand!

How many of the MMA kung fu critiques have done that in this forum?





Unfortunately, most of the p!ssers and moaners in question are MMA-ists, and that is what the subject matter of this thread is highlighting, in due fact of this being a Kung Fu forum!!

You know, I just want to say one thing. HW, your BS assumptions of you being the only person on this entire forum to train TCMA is ridiculous, even for you. You like to throw out accusations of the "knucklehead MMA" folks on here, such as me I guess, of never training in "true" TCMA yet you never have stated who your Sifu is/was, any clips of you training, or any shred of evidence that you are anything other than a sad demented troll with the mentality of a 15 year old living in your mother's basement.

The fact that you continue to bash posters on here, some of which I know come from TCMA lineages far more impressive than yours, since, well, you have never produced any evidence you even train TCMA, makes you out as an a**ss clown of epic proportion. I just don't get what you are so intimidated about. You rant on about how disrespectful these folks you call out are, yet I have never seen you be respectful to any of them either, even the ones who treat you with respect and actually listen to your idiotic rants.

Anyway, it is a free forum with free speech, for the most part. If KFM did not want discussion on MMA, they would not have added an MMA forum. Comparing it with Kung Fu sometimes does go in the main forum, but who really cares? If you don't like the thread topic, don't read it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?

[David Jamieson]

I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?

the petitions to legalize it...

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I once killed a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?

If more people listened to Johnny Cash, the world would be a better place.:)

[Dragonzbane76]

I just don't get what you are so intimidated about. You rant on about how disrespectful these folks you call out are, yet I have never seen you be respectful to any of them either, even the ones who treat you with respect and actually listen to your idiotic rants.

because David R. spanked his ass once and he's butt sore. He's had a chip on his shoulder for anyone that cross trains ever since. I BLAME DAVID R. :p

[Hardwork108]

how do you know you go to mma forums and read up? honestly it's just as bad or worse on mma forums, go over to bullshido and you'll see that they have whole sections about how sh!tty TCMA are. Go to sherdog, mma junkie, etc. again whole sections on just that.

Sorry, but I don't have the time, nor the patience to go and read all the MMA forums. Since you do, then perhaps you should limit your uninformed criticisms of the TCMAs to those very forums and let the genuine kung fu practitioners in peace!


So it's not just here, if your going to comment on something at least know something about it.

I know enough to say that most MMA kung fu critiques here would not know real kung fu, if it fell on their heads.




you guys b!tch to much, seriously, it's a free forum, who cares if you don't like it go somewhere else.

So now, the Kung Fu practitioners are required to leave a KUNG FU Forum, so that the MMA bunch can continue trolling and spreading their clueless misinformation about the TCMAs......Intersting concept?

Tell me, have you been getting hit a lot on the head recently, during your modern and "functional" MMA training?



To much "truth" in what people are saying got you guys running scared or something?
Well, from what I have seen so far from the knee-jerk reaction of YOU, the MMA guys, it seems that you are the ones who have become insecure....lol



Last I checked people can post pretty much what they like,

And there is your problem. This a Kung Fu Forum for people to use as an arena of the discussion of the various TCMA methodologies, not for "what they like"!!!!

Where do you people get your education from, anyway??????

I mean it is not rocket science!!!!!



I'm glad people like you aren't moderators

And you should be, oh boy YOU SHOULD BE!



or we would have a bunch of stuffy, pajama wearing, paranoid, "basement masters" here.
You know, when MMA guys like you, some of whom even claim kung fu experience, come up with revealing comments, such as the one above, it really solidifies the argument that you guys are just mere clueless trespassers in any TCMA forum!!!!


seriously what happened to free thought and free discussion?

Let me put it this way, when you lack a valid point of reference regarding the TCMAs, and solely base your arguments on your experience of MMA, combined with some McKung fu, then the concepts of freedom of thought and free discussion, begin to correlate with freedom to babble!!!!

[Dragonzbane76]

Sorry, but I don't have the time, nor the patience to go and read all the MMA forums. Since you do, then perhaps you should limit your uninformed criticisms of the TCMAs to those very forums and let the genuine kung fu practitioners in peace!
free site, i'll do what the hell i like.

I know enough to say that most MMA kung fu critiques here would not know real kung fu, if it fell on their heads.
and TCMA idiots as yourself couldn't fight to save there life. So actually speaking of fighting most mma practitioners could critque.

So now, the Kung Fu practitioners are required to leave a KUNG FU Forum, so that the MMA bunch can continue trolling and spreading their clueless misinformation about the TCMAs......Intersting concept?Only one who said anything about making people leave is yourself. I stated that if you don't like the discussion then leave. Not "telling" people to do anything.

Well, from what I have seen so far from the knee-jerk reaction of YOU, the MMA guys, it seems that you are the ones who have become insecure....lohaha some of the mma guys put up a few comments you didn't like and now we are the ones insecure? lol

And you should be, oh boy YOU SHOULD BE!
I know right, there are enough NAZI's in the world already without your leadership qualities.

[Dragonzbane76]

Let me put it this way, when you lack a valid point of reference regarding the TCMAs, and solely base your arguments on your experience of MMA, combined with some McKung fu, then the concepts of freedom of thought and free discussion, begin to correlate with freedom to babble!!!!

and being a NAZI control freak, you know about freedom don't you. lol

[lkfmdc]

because David R. spanked his ass once and he's butt sore.



David R has endorsed this message

(So has all his different screen names)

[Hardwork108]

oh, we dont grapple much and we dont have any ground fighting...
Who is "we"? Have "we" trained, all the kung fu styles and sub styles under the sun? Is what "we" trained a genuine lineage with a genuine sifus?

Don't take me wrong, these are genuine questions. The fact is that most kung fu schools out there, even the better known ones, do not and will not teach the real deal. However, most people here, including the MMA-ists:rolleyes: claim genuine kung fu knowledge, therefore see themselves as qualified to drag the TCMAs through the dirt, so to speak!!!!

Some of these "genuises" do not even understand basic kung fu rootings, basic Internal principles, the scope of chi sao, basic body unity principles, and so on.



i just said we have members that understand its needed to be a complete fighter and do it elsewhere...

Unfortunately, they don't understand the need to complete their kung fu systems, or at least build a solid understand of them, before they decide to improve, add on, or "complete" it with other training.

Also, IMHO, one can become a complete fighter using different approaches, yes even with cross training within the TCMAs, or TJMAs.



when we go to bak mei, we learn bak mei... nothing else...
I doubt that there are many people who have really learned Bak Mei.



and no, i think we've pretty much beaten this dead horse into dust, there is no ground fighting in tcma... and grappling is rudimentary and limited at best...
Are you speaking for the whole of the TCMAs?


im just saying our sifu recognizes the merrrit in these practices...
Hey, one can know ones limits and complete the gaps of his knowledge any way he chooses, but that does not give that person the right to come into forums such as this and preach his way as the best, or the more complete, using sports tournaments as a point of reference!



so if you know the real kung fu,

I practice real kung fu. To know real kung fu will take a long time, and that is one of the points I also make in this forum, to those who have practiced MT, Judo, BJJ, Karate, TKD, Western Boxing, wrestling, and "kung fu".........



what is your answer to a double leg? how do you protect both levels in your standup??? how do you train that?? do you call in guys as opponents that actually have the ability to change levels on you in the way you would need to practice defending it???


what is it about what you train that is so different from the majority???

The difference is that both my sifus are real deal sifus. To use kung fu one needs to understand the principles, and forge the weapons. That means potent short/long range strikes; understanding of the ranges involved, and the various techniques that are applicable in those ranges.

The Mainland Chinese Wing Chun that I practiced had ground fighting training based on this arts concepts and principles. I had to leave the country before I reached that level. I still meet up with sifu when one of us travels, but we spend the time in polishing up what I know. Within a few years I should be spending more time with him in Brazil, then I can tell you more about this.

I also know that ther is at least one Northern Mantis school in Singapoore that practices ground fighting, and there is at least one Tiger Claw lineage that does that as well. Other kung fu styles will take the ground into consideration, as the wrestling arts were around in China before kung fu and during the development of kung fu. It is silly to assume that kung fu developed without taking into account the wrestling scenarion.



most martial arts arent complete, infact i cant think of one that is complete... the only way to round out is to study more styles... learn to defend against them...

It is not question of complete but the question of a given martial art having a complete approach to fighting, that is taking consideration all of the ranges. It is silly for some people to assume that the TCMAs, and all of them at that, somehow forgot the ground scenario!

[Hardwork108]

You know, I just want to say one thing. HW, your BS assumptions of you being the only person on this entire forum to train TCMA is ridiculous, even for you.
That is lie. I have never claimed that and you know it. There are others here who have trained in genuine tCMAs under genuine sifus. Unfortunately, they don't post enough. That could be because they don't want to waste their time clashing heads with Kung fu-clueless MMA-ists................



You like to throw out accusations of the "knucklehead MMA" folks on here, such as me I guess, of never training in "true" TCMA
My "accusations" are based solely on the utter garbage and clueless posts that I read by the MMA-ists in this forum.


yet you never have stated who your Sifu is/was,
Perhaps, my sifus do not want their names dragged through internet forums, in discussions with kung fu-clueless MMA-ist?

Besides, I doubt you guys even know who your own sifus really were, let alone recognize the skills of my ones, none of whom you will know from Adam.


any clips of you training,
No clips, besides most of you would not know real kung fu even if it fell on your heads. I am saying that because I have read some of you guys' criticisms of the very few genuine kung fu clips posted here - TOTALLY CLUELESS!



or any shred of evidence that you are anything other than a sad demented troll with the mentality of a 15 year old living in your mother's basement.

Well seeing that you and your MMA buddies are the ones posting in the WRONG forum, perhaps it should be you guys running around in search of evidence to prove that you are not the 15 year olds living in your mothers' basements!!!!! LOL!!!


The fact that you continue to bash posters on here, some of which I know come from TCMA lineages far more impressive than yours,
The TCMA world is full of "impressive" lineages....LOL! That is how they make their money.....LOL.

The fact is that those "impressive" lineages come down crumbling everytime you guys post your clueless criticizms of the TCMAs. Your own writings and words are your worst enemies, because they show your TCMA cluelessness, and reveal who you really are.


since, well, you have never produced any evidence you even train TCMA, makes you out as an a**ss clown of epic proportion.
That statement is more revealing about you than about me. There are genuine TCMA people here who recongnize the fact that I train in authentic TCMAs. If you don't, then that reveals your own cluelessness.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you leave me no option!



I just don't get what you are so intimidated about. You rant on about how disrespectful these folks you call out are, yet I have never seen you be respectful to any of them either,
First of all I am not intimidated. I am IRRITATED.

Secondly, if I am not respectful to them, it is because they are not respectful to me!


even the ones who treat you with respect and actually listen to your idiotic rants.
Where have I been disrespectful to anyone who has been respectful to me? Please show us!

If you are going to use lies to defend yourself then again, that is revealing more about you and your insecurity, than anything about me!


Anyway, it is a free forum with free speech, for the most part. If KFM did not want discussion on MMA, they would not have added an MMA forum.
The MMA forum is not the problem, the problem is that the kung fu-clueless MMA-ists do not stick to the MMA forum.

Boy, this is more difficult than I thought......


Comparing it with Kung Fu sometimes does go in the main forum, but who really cares? If you don't like the thread topic, don't read it.

You still don't get it, do you?

I have had even TCMA threads that I have started turn into the MMA-ists d1ckwaving, the "superiority" of their methodologies.......

It is like an internet coachroach infestation. You can't start a thread without some guy talking about BJJ, ground fighting, or how some given TCMA technique would apparently not work against Ken Shamrock.....

You guys really need to get a life!!!

[Hardwork108]

Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76
because David R. spanked his ass once and he's butt sore.



David R has endorsed this message

(So has all his different screen names)

I find the correlation between man-grappling MMA-ists and increased postings of hom0sexual fantasies, very disturbing.

I hope that the moderators look into this and take the appropriate action.:D

[Dragonzbane76]

I find the correlation between man-grappling MMA-ists and increased postings of hom0sexual fantasies, very disturbing.

I hope that the moderators look into this and take the appropriate action.

me to your pretty gay. :p

[Violent Designs]

MMA to put reality check on CMA people who are still stuck in Ancient China.

[KC Elbows]

Odds are astronomically against an entire group of people arguing on an online forum are all actually as capable of fighters as they assume. So, if one is going to tell everyone else that they're clueless punching bags, it might be more convincing if more than two of the score of claimants actually prove they're anything different.

[EarthDragon]

perhaps it spawns from jealousy.
I know that girls and guys in HS who are jealous of other girls and guys who are more popular resent them in one way or another, and this could lead to rumors, arguing, resentment, telling others they are better than them etc etc.

however I still dont understand why on a kung fu forum MMA guys gotta log on and say how much better their training is then ours...if that's the case then why arent you out training your golden style, instead of coming on here and telling us how tougher you are than us.

This forum should be a to discuss, ask and answer questions about TCMA or the particular art of that board i.e Northern mantis and southen styles.

even the main board is named kung fu, MMA has a board so wouldnt it be more productive and better spending of your time and energy to be on that board talking to other MMA guys instead of beating your heads agiainst a wall that wont move?

[Knifefighter]

perhaps it spawns from jealousy.
I know that girls and guys in HS who are jealous of other girls and guys who are more popular resent them in one way or another, and this could lead to rumors, arguing, resentment, telling others they are better than them etc etc.

Not jealously, more like needing to comment when you hear something you know from experience is not true.



even the main board is named kung fu, MMA has a board so wouldnt it be more productive and better spending of your time and energy to be on that board talking to other MMA guys instead of beating your heads agiainst a wall that wont move?

It moves. Lots of kung fu guys have changed their thinking over the years. Not all of them are frogs in a well.

[Syn7]

why does it bother you so much??? we can talk about this cant we???


the show and proove method really gets under some peoples nerves... but the whole 'too deadly to practice' techniques are rediculous if you dont even have a decent lead in jab yet...


i enjoy my bak mei training and i enjoy doing the forms... i want to learn it in its purest... but its not how i fight... but i am hoping to use the principles to enhance my game overall... i just enjoy bak mei... feels good... and like i said before, the people above me and sifu arent closed to the benefits of ground game and cross training in general...

challenging beliefs is the ONY way we move forward as a species in general... this, ofcourse, is also applicable in MA... when people just believe what they are told, and question nothing, they atre limiting their potential...why do that??? why wear blinders on purpose just to justify your past??? esspecially if you are teaching... if you tell people they are learning to defend themselves... in some cases i feel this can be criminal... how many kids get beat up because they believe in their tkd training???

bottom line is this:
if you dont actively test your style against a relatively wide range of quality opponents, you dont know forsure if it even works or not...

winning a few street fights doesnt mean much...


so out of the teachers here, how many actively fight??? street or ring??? and im not talking about sanda and point karate... it doesnt have to be mma, just any sort of vale tudo (portugese for 'anything goes') or no rules match... basically any match that doesnt stand you back up or break you apart anytime it gets boring...

[EarthDragon]

Sny7
please understand. I am a fighter from way back and still love fighting. Now that I teach, I teach very practical stuff and all 5 of our forms are taught with application.

I know what works and what doesnt and although I have to follow a ciriculum I encourage my students to cross train and learn different stuff if thats what they want to do.

Oct 1st we are buying a octagon ring and I have hired a BJJ guy certified by the father of the gracie family and the only one certified by gracie family in the WNY area
and just for the record our system is comprised of 14 styles so 8 step mantis IS mixed martial art.
So dotn think Im aginast any of this. What I AM agaisnt is people posting negitiviely, discredtiting and poking fun at an art that some of us have devoted our life too.

I dont mind discussion or diagreements but come one man how many times do you gotta hear that your style sucks and mine is the best and what you know doesnt work evn though i have never fought you met you or have nay expertice or instction in THAT style because Its what I saw TV, this is ridiculous dont you agree?

[bawang]

i met some mma guys who are "crypto kung fu". they also train kung fu but dont tell other mma frends out of shame and embarasment. lolol

[Lucas]

i met some mma guys who are "crypto kung fu". they also train kung fu but dont tell other mma frends out of shame and embarasment. lolol

LOL closet kungfu

[Syn7]

Sny7
please understand. I am a fighter from way back and still love fighting. Now that I teach, I teach very practical stuff and all 5 of our forms are taught with application.

I know what works and what doesnt and although I have to follow a ciriculum I encourage my students to cross train and learn different stuff if thats what they want to do.

Oct 1st we are buying a octagon ring and I have hired a BJJ guy certified by the father of the gracie family and the only one certified by gracie family in the WNY area
and just for the record our system is comprised of 14 styles so 8 step mantis IS mixed martial art.
So dotn think Im aginast any of this. What I AM agaisnt is people posting negitiviely, discredtiting and poking fun at an art that some of us have devoted our life too.

I dont mind discussion or diagreements but come one man how many times do you gotta hear that your style sucks and mine is the best and what you know doesnt work evn though i have never fought you met you or have nay expertice or instction in THAT style because Its what I saw TV, this is ridiculous dont you agree?

yeah, people make alot of assumptions...

so then you agree, changes needed to be made to your style and/or training methods in oreder to be effective in todays world... yes???

even if you dont learn techniques outside 8step, you still are changing the opponent in order to practice defending a groundfighter... may i suggest you find a wrestler aswell... a swift shot is something you need to learn to defend, but you most likely wont see it from alot of bjj cats... find a greco and a freestyle wrestler that is willing to come in here and there...

[EarthDragon]

sny7,

so then you agree, changes needed to be made to your style and/or training methods in oreder to be effective in todays world... yes???

um no, I dont think changes are needed to make my system better, it is a hybrid already and has everything it needs, already included, punches , kicks, joint locks, throws, takedowns, even low mantis (ground fighting)


even if you dont learn techniques outside 8step, you still are changing the opponent in order to practice defending a groundfighter...

we cross train yes, I have held seminars from professionals from bagua, to boxing. but still keep true to 8 step.


may i suggest you find a wrestler aswell... a swift shot is something you need to learn to defend, but you most likely wont see it from alot of bjj cats... find a greco and a freestyle wrestler that is willing to come in here and there...

funny you should mention that my biz partner that we share the space teaches wrestling and often we match up thier guys against our guys to get a feel for what else is out there, but in the end I am a traditional TMCA. I have included a pic look above our heads....................
If your particular style is say wing chun which has little to know footwork in it then yes cross trainign is a must to fill the void, but with 8 step mantis we have it all remember what I sad it s a hybrid system form 14 other styles. we are as comfortable on the ground as we are standing up. 5817

[Knifefighter]

Oct 1st we are buying a octagon ring and I have hired a BJJ guy certified by the father of the gracie family and the only one certified by gracie family in the WNY area
and just for the record our system is comprised of 14 styles so 8 step mantis IS mixed martial art.

The father of the gracie family... really? Would that have been Helio or Carlos?

And I'll let Renzo know that according you you, you will have the only certified Gracie family instructor teaching at your school. He might be interested to find that out.

[Knifefighter]

we are as comfortable on the ground as we are standing up. 5817

Is that why you have to bring in a BJJ guy to teach ground?

[RenDaHai]

i enjoy my bak mei training and i enjoy doing the forms... i want to learn it in its purest... but its not how i fight... but i am hoping to use the principles to enhance my game overall... i just enjoy bak mei... feels good... and like i said before, the people above me and sifu arent closed to the benefits of ground game and cross training in general...

challenging beliefs is the ONY way we move forward as a species in general... this, ofcourse, is also applicable in MA... when people just believe what they are told, and question nothing, they atre limiting their potential...why do that??? why wear blinders on purpose just to justify your past??? esspecially if you are teaching... if you tell people they are learning to defend themselves... in some cases i feel this can be criminal... how many kids get beat up because they believe in their tkd training???

bottom line is this:
if you dont actively test your style against a relatively wide range of quality opponents, you dont know forsure if it even works or not...



Great post. This is true. I agree. But the point is a lot of people don't care and don't want to be great fighters. Why do people play golf? Why do people go to the gym? Go running? Learn to paint? Same as why people do kungfu. Any one who wants to be a good fighter will agree with you, but they will have already trained in this way anyway.

The rest of the world who do kung fu but don't want to become great fighters don't care about this and enjoy kung fu for what it is. Now i think that is probably most people. So why is everybody bad mouthing kung fu schools saying they are unrealistic, but the point is in reality very few of us get into street fights very often and kung fu improves peoples lives in many many ways. So most kung fu schools are not wrong to have unrealistic training. Let it be. This argument is a complete waste of time.

I think all of us can agree that to learn to be a real fighter we need to do realistic training and get into real fights. But There are a few of you out there who can't perceive that kung fu has more to offer than just a martial art.

[RenDaHai]

Tell you what, I think all of us can agree that 'in general' (that is not to say all) kung fu schools could make their art more effective by applying some MMA training methodology, if their goal is to be effective.

Now if only someone like KNIFEFIGHTER can agree that also there is more to kung fu than just combat (as in people enjoy kung fu for many reasons and it improves their lives in many ways) and accept that people gain a lot from kung fu without being great fighters. If he, and you all can agree to that then i think this argument can reach its conclusion.

[Hardwork108]

Not jealously, more like needing to comment when you hear something you know from experience is not true.
Which experience, your none existant TCMA one, or your current MMA one????





It moves. Lots of kung fu guys have changed their thinking over the years. Not all of them are frogs in a well.

Yes, we all know about all the Mckung fu guys who have changed their thinking, as it seems most of them post in this forum....LOL!

[Hardwork108]

I think all of us can agree that to learn to be a real fighter we need to do realistic training and get into real fights. But There are a few of you out there who can't perceive that kung fu has more to offer than just a martial art.

I would even say that kung fu has more martial art elements to offer, but these MMA people cannot perceive it, because they have not trained it authentically!

And speaking honestly, I doubt that many of them would have the attention spans to stick to it, even if they had found real deal sifus.

[David Jamieson]

Tell you what, I think all of us can agree that 'in general' (that is not to say all) kung fu schools could make their art more effective by applying some MMA training methodology, if their goal is to be effective.

Now if only someone like KNIFEFIGHTER can agree that also there is more to kung fu than just combat (as in people enjoy kung fu for many reasons and it improves their lives in many ways) and accept that people gain a lot from kung fu without being great fighters. If he, and you all can agree to that then i think this argument can reach its conclusion.

Come round hyar makin sense eh?

well, alright then.

:p

[Knifefighter]

Now if only someone like KNIFEFIGHTER can agree that also there is more to kung fu than just combat (as in people enjoy kung fu for many reasons and it improves their lives in many ways) and accept that people gain a lot from kung fu without being great fighters. If he, and you all can agree to that then i think this argument can reach its conclusion.

I've always been in agreement with that. My disagreement comes from liars like Earth Dragon Hardwork who make stuff up.

[RenDaHai]

Well then I think we are all pretty much on the same page.

If your focus is combat then techniques in many styles are good, but to become effective they need to be practiced in a high pressure environment with full speed and power. using the 'scientific method' to train. Makes sense.

However a lot of the people out there who train MA probably don't want to become a great fighter they just enjoy it. And others still gain a great deal from MA without worrying about being a good fighter, but like to apply the MA principles to their life and enjoy having that extra degree of control over their bodies.

[David Jamieson]

Don't you'll just wind him up again! :p

[Syn7]

Well then I think we are all pretty much on the same page.

If your focus is combat then techniques in many styles are good, but to become effective they need to be practiced in a high pressure environment with full speed and power. using the 'scientific method' to train. Makes sense.

However a lot of the people out there who train MA probably don't want to become a great fighter they just enjoy it. And others still gain a great deal from MA without worrying about being a good fighter, but like to apply the MA principles to their life and enjoy having that extra degree of control over their bodies.

and there is nothing wrong with that... for whatever reason... longevity, general health etc etc... but to teach it as a self defense program can be dangerous... granted most people, esspecially women, wil end up fighting someone who isnt a trained fighter and maybe their techniques will help... but some systems and sifu teach it as realy great self defence when they havent even fought anyone well rounded and skilled... to me thats fraud... and dangerous... a sense of security is a good thing... but a false sense of security is a dangerous thing... its a diservice...

[Hardwork108]

I've always been in agreement with that. My disagreement comes from liars like Earth Dragon Hardwork who make stuff up.

You haven't practiced a day's worth of authentic kung fu in your life, while posting your anti TCMA BS all over this forum, and you are calling Earthdragon and me liars???????


Congratulations, you have just taken kung fu-cluelessness to a new level. You will probably be awarded a medal by the other MMA knuckleheads who infest this forum.....:rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

View Post Today, 12:03 AM
Knifefighter
This message is hidden because Knifefighter is on your ignore list.

Hardwork108
just put him on your ignore list, like everybody else has.
time it takes to get rid of a troll.............2 seconds
effort it takes to rid the forum of human disease............ minimal
having to not be able to read his posts ever again..................priceless

[Hardwork108]

View Post Today, 12:03 AM
Knifefighter
This message is hidden because Knifefighter is on your ignore list.

Hardwork108
just put him on your ignore list, like everybody else has.
time it takes to get rid of a troll.............2 seconds
effort it takes to rid the forum of human disease............ minimal
having to not be able to read his posts ever again..................priceless

I might take your advice ...;):)

[EarthDragon]

your time on these boards will be more pleasureable without his annoyance

[bawang]

i think knifefighter is a prety cool guy. he not afraid anything and lift weits.

[Hardwork108]

i think knifefighter is a prety cool guy. he not afraid anything and lift weits.

Don't tell me that he also trains at your New York San Duh! gym? :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

your time on these boards will be more pleasureable without his annoyance

Very true. It is just unfortunate that this forum is full of kung fu-clueless MMA-ists, and I honestly can't figure out why they keep posting here in their "broken record" style.

However, it is sometimes very interesting to watch their insecurity as they gang up, and run around, stepping over their tongues, attempting vainly to justify their illogical presence in this forum, whenever someone calls them out regarding their meaningless existance in this site....:)

[bawang]

ur gay lol

[Hardwork108]

ur gay lol

There, one more example: One of Dave Ross's forum alter egos, tripping over his tongue, and note the usual MMA gay fantasy theme thrown in....LOL!

[Dragonzbane76]

There, one more example: One of Dave Ross's forum alter egos, tripping over his tongue, and note the usual MMA gay fantasy theme thrown in....LOL!
__________________

you think everyone is gay... i think you have an infatuation. I bet in brazil you like the tripode ladies...:p

[Hardwork108]

you think everyone is gay... i think you have an infatuation. I bet in brazil you like the tripode ladies...:p

What is a tripod lady? :confused:

[Syn7]

woman with three legs...

[EarthDragon]

hardwork,

However, it is sometimes very interesting to watch their insecurity as they gang up, and run around, stepping over their tongues, attempting vainly to justify their illogical presence in this forum, whenever someone calls them out regarding their meaningless existance in this site....

I wont take anyone of them seriously when they are afraid to show thier face via a pic, or tell us thier real name, show a clip of them doing something related to MA, post thier acompplishments in MA or something along those lines.

I find that the ones who talk the most smack are the internet tough guys who hide behind thier fake screen name for saftey, wont tell you thier schools name because thier embarrassed and usually are fat and out of shape.

I respect a man who is not afraid to post the turth about who they are.

[Hardwork108]

hardwork,


I wont take anyone of them seriously when they are afraid to show thier face via a pic, or tell us thier real name, show a clip of them doing something related to MA, post thier acompplishments in MA or something along those lines.
I see your point, but even if they did that, they might even demonstrate some valid knowledge of BJJ and MMA, boxing and so on, but I doubt that they would be able to demonstrate any actual TCMA knowledge, because based on their posts here, I mean wow, most of them don't even have an understanding of basic TCMA principles.

Sometimes posts can be very revealing. I read your posts, and even though you teach a different style to those I have been taught by my sifus, some of your approaches and ideas are identical to what I have been they teach.

I say all of this as a kung fu student, who has been lucky enough to have had genuine sifus, as I don't consider myself as even close to being a sifu.

I have also come upon MMA people here who quote names of famous kung fu masters/lineages to validate their comments. However, the stuff they put up in this forum would not be to the liking of any REAL master of kung fu, as they would see it as an insult to their arts, methodologies and even the Chinese culture.

I have always said, that the MMA crowd should limit their "contributions" here to asking polite questions about the TCMA methodologies, which they obviously don´t understand, instead of coming here and treating those of us who actually train these arts, as supersticious cavemen.

If a given thread subject matter allows for it, there is no harm in comparing and contrasting the MMA methodologies with TCMA ones, using not only MMA knowledge, but a valid TCMA knowledge, as a base.

That means no more comments such as "forms are useless"; "Internals don't exist"; "kung fu stances/roots are irrelevant, lets all "hop" around because this gives us more ´mobility´", and etc. as this type of generalized clueless take on the TCMAs will stop any serious TCMA discussion right in its tracks, usually leading to a flame war, that means the kung fu discussion would end up in the garbage can, while the MMA crowd continue D!ck Waving their way through the forum, destroying any potentially decent TCMA discussion, where all sides could be learning about the TCMAs.

Why? Because most of them are here to TEACH, not to LEARN, as they have already made up their minds that what they do is superior. It is an ego thing, based on personal issues and insecurities, that are unfortunately so common in our modern societies.


I find that the ones who talk the most smack are the internet tough guys who hide behind thier fake screen name for saftey, wont tell you thier schools name because thier embarrassed and usually are fat and out of shape.

I respect a man who is not afraid to post the turth about who they are.

Personally speaking I don't put up much about myself, mainly because none of my sifus want their names posted on internet forums. Secondly, I have had the name of my WC sifu dragged through these forums as part of some idiotic prank, courtesy of "sifu":rolleyes:, Dave Ross, and some of his forum friends.

So, I would rather share this information with actual kung fu people. So, I will PM my info to kung fu people such as yourself if asked.:)

[Hardwork108]

woman with three legs...

Well, evidently Dragonzbane76 knows more about that stuff then I do.....

Could it be that he has gone too far with his cross training and taken it to the "next level"?:eek:

[ShaolinDan]

As much as I don't really enjoy being told I'm a fool for believing something I know to be true, I have to admit, I think this is the most important post here:


SanHeChuan

Forums where everyone agrees are dead.

[Hardwork108]

As much as I don't really enjoy being told I'm a fool for believing something I know to be true, I have to admit, I think this is the most important post here:

That is true, but in my opinion, one can have informed discussions in which one may disagree on certain points, using as base of reference their TCMA knowledge, and not their uninformed opinions, based on none TCMA methodologies.

I also believe that discussion, including disagreements, within a given context can be very healthy. Yes, people can disagree. The Chow Gar methodology will disagree with the WC one, on certain fundamental points. An informed discussion on the why's of this may bring forth fruitful results for both sides, but how many more times do we have to hear about the "benefits" of modern grappling practice for the TCMA-ists?

How many more times do we need kung fu-clueless MMA-ists, recommending cross training (in MT, BJJ, Boxing) to kung fu beginners, who have not even been through basic training?

How many more times do we need to be told that any TCMA concept that is profound, is to be looked upon as "fantasy", because some MMA knucklehead could not get the remanents of his brain cells around it?

So, discussion, including disagreements are good for a forum, but within a given CONTEXT!

Otherwise, we end up with what we have here, where the TCMA-ists, who post in a TCMA forum, end up having to justify their methodologies to a bunch of clueless MMA-ists, which is akin to explaining the finer points of Astrophysics to a bunch of Chimps.

[Reyth]

This makes me think that there could be a neutral site set up for sparring and we could have KFM bouts from the two schools! :D

[ShaolinDan]

I definitely agree the disagreements could be 'healthier' (or at least more polite), but that would be hard to moderate. If disagreeable people have to be polite, they'll post somewhere else...Anyway, it's a mixed bag, but I think it probably serves KFM best to have as much activity as possible.

Really, I think that there's enough of 'both' (as if there were only two :) ) sides of the argument being presented for readers to draw their own conclusions.

But yeah, it's a little funny that there are very active posters on a kung fu forum who appear to think that studying kung fu is proof of clueless-ness. (Guilty until proven otherwise.)

Still, it does keep things lively. :)

[Hardwork108]

I definitely agree the disagreements could be 'healthier' (or at least more polite), but that would be hard to moderate. If disagreeable people have to be polite, they'll post somewhere else...Anyway, it's a mixed bag, but I think it probably serves KFM best to have as much activity as possible.

Really, I think that there's enough of 'both' (as if there were only two :) ) sides of the argument being presented for readers to draw their own conclusions.

But yeah, it's a little funny that there are very active posters on a kung fu forum who appear to think that studying kung fu is proof of clueless-ness. (Guilty until proven otherwise.)

Still, it does keep things lively. :)

I agree about keeping things active, however, because of the current modern MMA "trendiness", together with their insistent vocal manifestations about the "merits" of their methodolgies, and the mysterious phenomenon of these guys wanting to post in a TCMA forum, a Kung Fu forum such as this one, may end up sending the wrong message, that is, the "MMA is Best", to those poor souls who are contemplating a kung fu path, but have not yet built enough knowledge to see this MMA propaganda BS, for what it is.

So, we are in danger of doing damage to the TCMA scene in real time.

There also remains the function of forums such as this one which is to EDUCATE the world at large, or people who want to learn, about the TCMAs and given methodologies. The priority of any kung fu forum is NOT to educate the masses about the "benefits" of MMA training, at the expense of the TCMAs.

Having said that, there are some great threads and information here, but the MMA bunch have always made their presence, albeit Kung fu-clueless, in essence, felt.
This creates unnecessary conflict and confusion, not to mention, helps spread misinformation about the authentic Kung Fu practice. Just my IMHO.:)

[ShaolinDan]

I don't disagree. It is a mixed bag. As a long time lurker here though, I can say that I (at least) registered the rational posts on a deeper level than the loud ones (even if they happened more.)

But I'm smat...read books! be smat! :)

That's my favorite thing about kung fu though...if you aren't willing to think about it, you'll never learn.

[Hardwork108]

I don't disagree. It is a mixed bag. As a long time lurker here though, I can say that I (at least) registered the rational posts on a deeper level than the loud ones (even if they happened more.)
You seem to have a knowledge base that enables you to see through the smoke screen.

My main worry is in regards the beginners in kung fu who are exposed to some of the TCMA cluelessness that is manifested by many MMA-ists.


But I'm smat...read books! be smat! :)

Same here.:)


That's my favorite thing about kung fu though...if you aren't willing to think about it, you'll never learn.

That statement is very true and profound, not to mention revealing about our MMA "friends" who post here.;)

[EarthDragon]

thank you hardwork for your compliments about having the same insight as your shifu's, I'm flattered.

I had an obeservation in class last night that I would like to point out. I share a large facilty with a wrestling class and a boxing/ MMA class, all under one roof.

I noticed the wrestlers as wll as the MMA guys are far less diciplined than I would ever allow or expect. They leave thier dirty clothes in the lockeroom, forget to flush the toilet, open energy bars and dont throw out the wrappers, spit in the sink, etc etc.

I asked the coach about this behavior as i am getting tired of having MY students clean the school and he said my guys arent diciplined like your students......
I said why? he said because they respect you for title, your knowlege and what you represent. My wrestlers think I'm justa guy who trains them, Im just a coach, no bowing no respect, no line of family tree like you have, its just a casual sport we dont teach that kind if respect and they all have HUGE egos' kung fu dimishes this ego while building respect.

Perhaps thats the case with people like knifeighter and some of the other disruptive and disresectful members on these boards.

[Hardwork108]

thank you hardwork for your compliments about having the same insight as your shifu's, I'm flattered.

Thanks to you as well for your supportiveness and understanding.


I had an obeservation in class last night that I would like to point out. I share a large facilty with a wrestling class and a boxing/ MMA class, all under one roof.

I noticed the wrestlers as wll as the MMA guys are far less diciplined than I would ever allow or expect. They leave thier dirty clothes in the lockeroom, forget to flush the toilet, open energy bars and dont throw out the wrappers, spit in the sink, etc etc.

I asked the coach about this behavior as i am getting tired of having MY students clean the school and he said my guys arent diciplined like your students......
I said why? he said because they respect you for title, your knowlege and what you represent. My wrestlers think I'm justa guy who trains them, Im just a coach, no bowing no respect, no line of family tree like you have, its just a casual sport we dont teach that kind if respect and they all have HUGE egos' kung fu dimishes this ego while building respect.

I think this problem is partially due to the fact that for decades we have been bombarded with propaganda so as to be super materialists; look after number one; be separate from the group; look down on tradition; and so on. I guess, the system that separates us from each other and our traditions more, controls us more..

This phenomenon, seems to be manifesting itself in the MA community, at least to some extent.

Also, it is my belief that there are people who are more spiritually evolved than others, and there are people with less, and as far as MAs are concerned, they will choose the ones with training aspects that "suit" their level of spiritual development, as they will choose their jobs, and so on.

So, in the MA community we have people who "bow to no one"; They refuse to call anyone master; make decisions based on their own opinions, and wether or not those opinions (as the case may be here in the forums) are informed or not, is irrelevant to them; have a two dimensional view of everything from politics to the martial arts; they have huge egos, based more on personal insecurity, than any valid achievements, together with empty prides, to go, and contribute to their unbalanced personalities.


Perhaps thats the case with people like knifeighter and some of the other disruptive and disresectful members on these boards.
I would say probably so. Perhaps some of them will evolve in this life time, and others in the next. However, the first step for them would be to respect the people in this forum who actually follow the TCMA methodologies, while realizing that they, the none-TCMA MMA-ists, are here as guests, as this forum is primarily for Kung fu practitioners and their discussions, thus the MMA-ists should be more humble and respectful in their interactions with the TCMA community, who I am sure will return the favor to them.

Well, somehow I don't think that most of them will listen to our advice, but it is always worth trying.:)

[Frost]

thank you hardwork for your compliments about having the same insight as your shifu's, I'm flattered.

I had an obeservation in class last night that I would like to point out. I share a large facilty with a wrestling class and a boxing/ MMA class, all under one roof.

I noticed the wrestlers as wll as the MMA guys are far less diciplined than I would ever allow or expect. They leave thier dirty clothes in the lockeroom, forget to flush the toilet, open energy bars and dont throw out the wrappers, spit in the sink, etc etc.

I asked the coach about this behavior as i am getting tired of having MY students clean the school and he said my guys arent diciplined like your students......
I said why? he said because they respect you for title, your knowlege and what you represent. My wrestlers think I'm justa guy who trains them, Im just a coach, no bowing no respect, no line of family tree like you have, its just a casual sport we dont teach that kind if respect and they all have HUGE egos' kung fu dimishes this ego while building respect.

Perhaps thats the case with people like knifeighter and some of the other disruptive and disresectful members on these boards.

god you are an in sercure idiot arent you, and no wonder you and hardwork get on so well :rolleyes:

At least wrestlers dont lie about who they have trained and their comp record, grappling builds more respect and inner belief and destroys egos in a way no TCMA martial art does but since you have not done it I wouldn't expect you to understand

[Syn7]

wrestling emphasised respect in highschool and college... dunno about the class at the Y... bjj does, muay thai does, cma does... its not mma you have a problem with... its american arrogance infiltrating the martial world... and its not just thru mma competitions...

[EarthDragon]

frost

god you are an in sercure idiot arent you, and no wonder you and hardwork get on so well

you have lower yourself to name calling now?

This is my point extacly, if your MMA teacher didnt teach respect to you at least your parents should have?



At least wrestlers dont lie about who they have trained and their comp record, grappling builds more respect and inner belief and destroys egos in a way no TCMA martial art does but since you have not done it I wouldn't expect you to understand

So your saying people that wrestle dont lie........alrightey then :confused: are you speaking on behalf of every wrestler you pesonally know in the US or is this just the wrestler's in the UK?

also your saying the MMA guys that jump up and scream, climb up the octagon fence, put thier hands in the air when they win,make that mean and intimidating face, talk smack, and act like animals. have NO ego, but the people, shifu's, masters and the humble monks who pradtice TCMA HAVE ego's? I do beleive you have this backwards my friend.
Try not to be so bitter and contirbute something postitve to the conversation, you will get more out of your time on these boards.

[EarthDragon]

sny7
its not mma you have a problem with... its american arrogance infiltrating the martial world... and its not just thru mma competitions...

perhaps your right sny, I'm making too big of a sweeping assumption here. Theres winners and loosers in every walk of life.

[Frost]

frost


you have lower yourself to name calling now?

This is my point extacly, if your MMA teacher didnt teach respect to you at least your parents should have?



So your saying people that wrestle dont lie........alrightey then :confused: are you speaking on behalf of every wrestler you pesonally know in the US or is this just the wrestler's in the UK?

also your saying the MMA guys that jump up and scream, climb up the octagon fence, put thier hands in the air when they win,make that mean and intimidating face, talk smack, and act like animals. have NO ego, but the people, shifu's, masters and the humble monks who pradtice TCMA HAVE ego's? I do beleive you have this backwards my friend.
Try not to be so bitter and contirbute something postitve to the conversation, you will get more out of your time on these boards.

nope im saying that people that tell untrues and get caught out shouldnt cast stones on others they know nothing about.

Its not anyones role to teach me anything about respect, much less a martial arts teacher, lol how many shaolin movies did you watch as a kid? the real kung fu guys I have known have been anything other than morale guides, they were fighters, doorman and low level guys for the most part, hence the need to learn fighting and become good at it.

I go to my MMA and grappling coach to learn a skill set, not to learn esoteric ways of bowing or honouring someone who is making money off me

Respect is earned in a sporting enviroment from the way one deals with defeat and getting beaten on a weekly basis, not from how long you have been with a teacher, thats the respect grappling and MMA instills in you it allows you to know how good and bad you are and its a shame you have never gone through this process, but still feel the need to comment on it :rolleyes:

[Drake]

It has less to do with MMA being some holy grail (which it isn't) and more about how you handle being punched in the face.

You slam TCMA, Frost, yet elevate MMA to some ridiculous level of awesomeness. Surelly you have to admit you are being snowed by your own bias. MMA is just like everything else. It's a fad, and it'll come and go, just like most other martial arts, which while keeping most of their hardcore loyalists, now are on the sidelines.

Combat, especially anything involving more variables than a ring, set of gloves, and some sort of ref, quickly becomes how you respond to life or death, adreneline filled encounters where everything seems to go wrong, and for whatever reason, sharp things seem to pop up out of nowhere.

In other words, stop propping up your BS style, which is the same as every other BS style the rest of us are doing, because in the end, it doesn't matter. It's a false sense of security, and you all end up in the same emergency room suffering the cost of arrogance and overconfidence.

The best street fighters are veteran street fighters. Not TCMA, MMA, etc etc.

[Hardwork108]

nope im saying that people that tell untrues and get caught out shouldnt cast stones on others they know nothing about.
Well, I know of the implied benefits of Olympic Weight training for INTERNAL kung fu training, that you yourself were throwing around.

That should have been, game, set and match, for your kung fu forum existance, however, since this place is full of people of your (MMA and McKung Fu) persuasion, you were not laughed off, and out of this forum! LOL

But don't feel too bad, as you are continuing to provide the laughs for the few of us genuine TCMA practitioners, here. ;)


Its not anyones role to teach me anything about respect, much less a martial arts teacher, lol how many shaolin movies did you watch as a kid?¨

That kind of attitude is exactly what EarthDragon is talking about, that is pompous arrogance, insecurity, combined with empty pride, without the substance to go with it.

Frost, you have just proved his point about the lack of respectfulness in the general MMA camp!



the real kung fu guys I have known have been anything other than morale guides, they were fighters, doorman and low level guys for the most part, hence the need to learn fighting and become good at it.
I doubt that you would know a real kung fu guy, even if he fell on your head!!!

Another hint, if you want to meet real kung fu guys, then find a REAL kung fu school and spend some years there......


I go to my MMA and grappling coach to learn a skill set, not to learn esoteric ways of bowing or honouring someone who is making money off me
What people like you miss, is that the required respectfulness is not just for your MA arena, but for your life in general.

I was brought up with respectfulness being ingrained into me, and what I found in my kung fu schools was an extension of that......

I guess that not only do not have a point of reference as regards the TCMAs, you are kind of "lost in the woods" when it comes to the concept of respect.


Respect is earned in a sporting enviroment from the way one deals with defeat and getting beaten on a weekly basis, not from how long you have been with a teacher,
Well, that is you. When I meet a fellow martial arts student, or even a sifu/sensei from another school or style, I am automatically respectful. That is, I don't ask them how many medals they have won in sporting competitions, before I decide to be respectful to them.

The same is true when I meet people outside of the MA world, I am respectful, that is I don't ask them to earn my repsect!!!!



thats the respect grappling and MMA instills in you it allows you to know how good and bad you are and its a shame you have never gone through this process, but still feel the need to comment on it :rolleyes:

I would hazard a guess that EarthDragon has been through a lot more than you think and he has done most of it within a TCMA context, and that would put him way ahead of all of you kung fu clueless MMA people who are here to "teach" the rest of us about the "Wonderful World of Knucklehead MAs" (coming soon to a movie theater near you?)!!!

[EarthDragon]

frost,
here yuo said

nope im saying that people that tell untrues and get caught out shouldnt cast stones on others they know nothing about.

then you said

At least wrestlers dont lie about who they have trained and their comp record,

this is a complete conradiction................. you are saying that EVERY wreslter doesnt lie , but obviously you can expect us to believe that you know everyone who wrestles in the world. so thats a LIE
as well as the things you have said and lied to about me! So who casting these stones fitst stones? you read something that kniefghter posted about me that was flase without going back and reading what I REALLY said, this is called spreading flase rumors without knowing the truth So you a in fact lieing in this case.


Its not anyones role to teach me anything about respect,

yes it is ... your parents, school teachers, pastors, MA or MMA teachers, you must respect others before you deseve respect.


the real kung fu guys I have known have been anything other than morale guides, they were fighters, doorman and low level guys for the most part,

perhaps this is the problem, you have not found a good teacher yet......But you are instulting many a respected, and famous people who have done incerdible things in their lives as well other peoples shifus when you call them doormats.


I go to my MMA and grappling coach to learn a skill set, not to learn esoteric ways of bowing or honouring someone who is making money off me

thats cool, we all have our reasons for joining a gym or a school.


Respect is earned in a sporting enviroment from the way one deals with defeat and getting beaten on a weekly basis,

I have to disagree, one learns humiliation and humblness by getting beat up on a weekly basis not respect.


thats the respect grappling and MMA instills in you it allows you to know how good and bad you are and its a shame you have never gone through this process, but still feel the need to comment on it
I learned TCMA so i didnt get beat up on a daily basis, although the teachers in my life have beatne me up pretty good over the last 29 years... try to have a good day and dont be so bitter......

[dimethylsea]

god you are an in sercure idiot arent you, and no wonder you and hardwork get on so well :rolleyes:

At least wrestlers dont lie about who they have trained and their comp record, grappling builds more respect and inner belief and destroys egos in a way no TCMA martial art does but since you have not done it I wouldn't expect you to understand

Wrestlers/grapplers don't lie about who they have trained and their competition record? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You are killing me man! Of course grapplers lie! They lie CONSTANTLY just like most other martial artists!

They lie about who they can tap, about whether they "let" someone tap them, about "who paid for what equipment", about "what medals they've won", "how close to XYZ belt they are", who they trained with etc.

They just think different things are important enough to lie about compared to the traditional guys.

Wrestlers/grapplers are MONSTROUSLY egotistical. Then again so are traditional guys. Probably about equally IME. But the trad guys have a subcultural code of "public behavior" which strongly encourages them to be highly hypocritical about their ego ("I must act humble, while gloating inside") which the "competition/sport" types don't.

And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about. I've done grappling in multiple gyms with several teachers and it's the same song and dance. Human nature I suspect.

[Frost]

It has less to do with MMA being some holy grail (which it isn't) and more about how you handle being punched in the face.

You slam TCMA, Frost, yet elevate MMA to some ridiculous level of awesomeness. Surelly you have to admit you are being snowed by your own bias. MMA is just like everything else. It's a fad, and it'll come and go, just like most other martial arts, which while keeping most of their hardcore loyalists, now are on the sidelines.

Combat, especially anything involving more variables than a ring, set of gloves, and some sort of ref, quickly becomes how you respond to life or death, adreneline filled encounters where everything seems to go wrong, and for whatever reason, sharp things seem to pop up out of nowhere.

In other words, stop propping up your BS style, which is the same as every other BS style the rest of us are doing, because in the end, it doesn't matter. It's a false sense of security, and you all end up in the same emergency room suffering the cost of arrogance and overconfidence.

The best street fighters are veteran street fighters. Not TCMA, MMA, etc etc.

where did i say it was awsome or the best, i said i go to learn a skill set and that respect is earned through competition and loss, please show me where i said anything about it being the best etc? I simply got p*ssed at someone saying TCMA teachs respect etc though the bowing etc and that grapplers dont respect their coach or is somehow less fulfilling spiritually, is that ok?

Combat invloves much more you are right, and where did i say MMA was the be all and end all for combat? I have said over and over if you dont look like how you train when you fight there is something wrong, and that if you cant handle getting hit in a sporting context you probably wont handle it on the strret, would you agree with that?

[Frost]

Wrestlers/grapplers don't lie about who they have trained and their competition record? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You are killing me man! Of course grapplers lie! They lie CONSTANTLY just like most other martial artists!

They lie about who they can tap, about whether they "let" someone tap them, about "who paid for what equipment", about "what medals they've won", "how close to XYZ belt they are", who they trained with etc.

They just think different things are important enough to lie about compared to the traditional guys.

Wrestlers/grapplers are MONSTROUSLY egotistical. Then again so are traditional guys. Probably about equally IME. But the trad guys have a subcultural code of "public behavior" which strongly encourages them to be highly hypocritical about their ego ("I must act humble, while gloating inside") which the "competition/sport" types don't.

And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about. I've done grappling in multiple gyms with several teachers and it's the same song and dance. Human nature I suspect.

the untrue bit was more aimed at a certian guy who stated he trained the guy that won ufc 6 and 7 then it turned out he was a sparring partner to a guy who won an alternate match at those events...

but if you want to argue who has more ego TCMA or MMA ill go down that route if you like.......

[dimethylsea]

but if you want to argue who has more ego TCMA or MMA ill go down that route if you like.......

Not really. I think both camps have their ego-monsters and the only difference is that MMA people tend to gloat openly and TMA people gossip behind closed doors or in private.

[Hardwork108]

Not really. I think both camps have their ego-monsters and the only difference is that MMA people tend to gloat openly and TMA people gossip behind closed doors or in private.

Another difference is that the MMA people, for some mysterious reason, tend gloat openly in TCMA FORUMS!

[Frost]

Not really. I think both camps have their ego-monsters and the only difference is that MMA people tend to gloat openly and TMA people gossip behind closed doors or in private.

i would argue on general an average grappler is more humble than your tcma average pracitioner simply because he is getting beaten and tapped out on a more constant basis, and that is more humbling than anything in my view, the more egotistical guys i met in TCMA tended to be the ones who looked down on competing and sparring and would rather just do forms, those that sparred and fought were much more secure and had less time for the backbiteing and i find the same true in the combat sports, its also hard to lie about your comp record and who you train with when so much of that is out there for public consumption

[dimethylsea]

i would argue on general an average grappler is more humble than your tcma average pracitioner simply because he is getting beaten and tapped out on a more constant basis, and that is more humbling than anything in my view, the more egotistical guys i met in TCMA tended to be the ones who looked down on competing and sparring and would rather just do forms, those that sparred and fought were much more secure and had less time for the backbiteing and i find the same true in the combat sports, its also hard to lie about your comp record and who you train with when so much of that is out there for public consumption

Maybe it's different in the UK.

[Frost]

Maybe it's different in the UK.

its all about personal expereince thats for sure :)

[Hardwork108]

i would argue on general an average grappler is more humble than your tcma average pracitioner simply because he is getting beaten and tapped out on a more constant basis,

Apparently not enough, because most of the grapplers who post here, which I will remind you and the likes of you again, is a KUNG FU FORUM, are pompous and rude so and so's!



and that is more humbling than anything in my view, the more egotistical guys i met in TCMA tended to be the ones who looked down on competing and sparring and would rather just do forms, those that sparred and fought were much more secure and had less time for the backbiteing and i find the same true in the combat sports, its also hard to lie about your comp record and who you train with when so much of that is out there for public consumption

IMHO, you and your MMA lot should stick to your sports activities, hence limit your posts to sports fighting forums, and only frequent TCMA forums when you have genuine questions regarding certain TCMA methodologies that interest you.

That would be more RESPECTFUL!

[Reyth]

I would like to see a video of a MMA fighter doing the usual "bum's rush" on a MA fighter and getting knocked to the floor with a vicious front kick. I'm really tired of seeing the videos over and over where this doesn't happen... :mad:

[EarthDragon]

Frost,

the untrue bit was more aimed at a certian guy who stated he trained the guy that won ufc 6 and 7 then it turned out he was a sparring partner to a guy who won an alternate match at those events

Please go back and RE READ MY post the one "I" posted not what knifefighter read and inturpreted incorrectly, then changed the words around and posted way HE thought I said. Peopel on here sometimes need a class in reading comprehension.

I said I trained Joel sutton. this is true.
I said he won his ALTERNATE BOUTS, in UFC 6 & 7 this is also true.
I said Yoshiki Takahashi trained at MY school for the fight.. This is also true.

Knifefighter and YOU are the only ones who read this to say I was his kicking dummy and he won the main event. Please learn how to read beofre you call people liars.

PS your a bad a$$ MMA fighter right mate, pleaee post what UFC you were in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or ANY fight for that reason, NO WHY cuz you havent done it yet? give me a break dude, what part of the UK are you from?
heres a clip from the news paper
incase you want to call people liars out here again.
5830

[Violent Designs]

I would like to see a video of a MMA fighter doing the usual "bum's rush" on a MA fighter and getting knocked to the floor with a vicious front kick. I'm really tired of seeing the videos over and over where this doesn't happen... :mad:

:confused:

[Reyth]

The standard move is where the MMA guy puts his head down, clinches the MA guy and forces him to the ground and just sits on him. Its a "bum's rush" move and it should be stopped hard and cold but I never see that... :(

[Syn7]

sny7

perhaps your right sny, I'm making too big of a sweeping assumption here. Theres winners and loosers in every walk of life.

forsure... and in rugby when we scored, or won, we celebrated... ****y sometimes but mainly happy... after scoring i would look like the guy at the top of the cage saying WHAT! and it wasnt a bad thing if it didnt go much further... i always celebrated when i won wrestling matches... i'd shake their hand and stuff, but i was happy as hell for myself and showed it... stone faced monk is for monks, not those of us that partake in the rest of the world... monks are cool, but its not for everyone...

competition is okay... aggression is okay and winning isnt disrespectful... being a ******* about is, but celebrating is cool...

i had some really good mentors from wrestling and it kept me out of trouble, for awhile anyways... my sifu is a really nice guy and i'm always respectful around him, no matter what... a check my mouth more than i would anywhere else becoz of that ingrained respect thing in tcma, so its a strong force... people who dont get it, well, they just dont get it... its a different world... i dont act the way i do in bjj the way i do in bak mei... just running with the heards, following suit... im there to train, not politik... thats what kfm is for ;)

[Syn7]

The standard move is where the MMA guy puts his head down, clinches the MA guy and forces him to the ground and just sits on him. Its a "bum's rush" move and it should be stopped hard and cold but I never see that... :(

its alot harder, to counter a good shot, than some people seem to think... let alone stopping them dead in their tracks... it happens, but more often than not the grappler gets the clinch on the cage at the very least... it comes hard and fast and if they are good, you think youre being punched when they drop levels on you... if you wanna stuff takedowns, you have to train with guys that have good takedowns... bottom line... padwork just wont cut it, its not the same... grapplers are generally alot stronger than their strinking counterparts... pushing weight like that has its rewards... you cant simulate that, you just gotta spar with em to be able to avoid it and defend it...

[goju]

yes stopping good shots are not easy by any means especially when you can set your takedowns up with punches and what not

i remember sparring with a smaller amateur fighter who had a wrestling bakround and even he was hard to stop despite the size difference

we were working stand up with takedowns and i only stopped one out of every shot he did.

[San Soo Sifu]

I see takedown attempts stopped all the time (well, not all the time... that's a bit of an over-statement)...

However, it is usually a good, strong, stiff knee to the face that stuffs the takedown attempt; not usually a front kick though.

But, like all things in life... first you must train it, then you must have excellent timing; and a little bit of good luck on your side doesn't hurt either. ;)

[Reyth]

Well the lack of video evidence of it is somewhat disturbing.

A far as training it, it would seem to me to be kind of dangerous because a full head shot is required at close range; if I was sparring someone, I would be concerned about hurting them... The clincher really puts themselves in a dangerous situation that requires their opponent to respond with potentially lethal force.

Good point about the knee; if the range is too short for the full kick, go to the knee... ;)

Excellent posts about this. Thanks.

[PalmStriker]

What are the Muay Thai guys doing when they're up against a grappler? If you allow a wrestler to get a hold on, isn't that the last thing a boxer (Western or otherwise) should let take place. I mean, in the movies the hero will get loose, but not in reality. Most likely choked out like taking on a hungry python.

[PalmStriker]

Here's a vid I located that shows how a boxer understands the intent of an opponent that is a grappler. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0HCXRgU5g&feature=related

[YouKnowWho]

However, it is usually a good, strong, stiff knee to the face that stuffs the takedown attempt; not usually a front kick though.

If you always run your shin bone into your opponent's front leg before your single/double legs, you can avoid his knee.

I think the "foot sweep" is less risky than the leg/legs shooting. It won't put you in risk if your "foot sweep" fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwS0aPedoEo

[Drake]

where did i say it was awsome or the best, i said i go to learn a skill set and that respect is earned through competition and loss, please show me where i said anything about it being the best etc? I simply got p*ssed at someone saying TCMA teachs respect etc though the bowing etc and that grapplers dont respect their coach or is somehow less fulfilling spiritually, is that ok?

Combat invloves much more you are right, and where did i say MMA was the be all and end all for combat? I have said over and over if you dont look like how you train when you fight there is something wrong, and that if you cant handle getting hit in a sporting context you probably wont handle it on the strret, would you agree with that?

I must have misread something somewhere. Oh well. Story of my life. :o

[Reyth]

Here's a vid I located that shows how a boxer understands the intent of an opponent that is a grappler. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0HCXRgU5g&feature=related

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! That exposed head just took a THUMPING!

Its like he just offered his head on a silver platter and said "hit me please!" :D

[Reyth]

If you always run your shin bone into your opponent's front leg before your single/double legs, you can avoid his knee.

I think the "foot sweep" is less risky than the leg/legs shooting. It won't put you in risk if your "foot sweep" fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwS0aPedoEo

Very nice technique! Extremely subtle. :cool:

[Hardwork108]

If the head is in the right range one can attempt a palm strike or a gao choi (similar to hammer fist), using vibrating and soft power whole body power, respectively.

[Reyth]

Interesting. Like a hammer fist to the temple?

[Frost]

I would like to see a video of a MMA fighter doing the usual "bum's rush" on a MA fighter and getting knocked to the floor with a vicious front kick. I'm really tired of seeing the videos over and over where this doesn't happen... :mad:

go try it with a wrestler video it and show us how it worked out for you :)

a shot has momentum and surprise behind it, if you want to put yourself on one leg as he comes into you then be my guest, he will think its christmas time :)

you want to hit the guy do it before he shoots or after you have stuffef the take down

[Hardwork108]

Interesting. Like a hammer fist to the temple?

Executed properly this strike can be effective on most parts of the head. One would need the right kind of Internal body unity and relaxation, things which unfortunately are not taught in external MAs, nor are most kung fu stylists nowadays exposed to. The few sifus who know of these aspects, are choosy about who they teach it to, and rightly so.

Hence we have the erroneous image of TCMAs as being unfunctional and weak, but then he who is ready and searches will have a good chance of finding real kung fu, otherwise they can try a nearby MMA or kickboxing gym.

[Frost]

If the head is in the right range one can attempt a palm strike or a gao choi (similar to hammer fist), using vibrating and soft power whole body power, respectively.

i dont reply to you as a rule but thanks for the laugh this morning :)

[Frost]

Executed properly this strike can be effective on most parts of the head. One would need the right kind of Internal body unity and relaxation, things which unfortunately are not taught in external MAs, nor are most kung fu stylists nowadays exposed to. The few sifus who know of these aspects, are choosy about who they teach it to, and rightly so.

Hence we have the erroneous image of TCMAs as being unfunctional and weak, but then he who is ready and searches will have a good chance of finding real kung fu, otherwise they can try a nearby MMA or kickboxing gym.

good luck with the body unity and relaxation thing when you are being thrown 6 feet in the air, striking only works if the takedown and momentum has been stopped otherwise you are off balance and going down

[Hardwork108]

i dont reply to you as a rule
When have I ever asked YOU for a reply...LOL

Why reply, when your contributions in a KUNG FU forum, are limited to MMA subjects. What could you possibly discuss TCMA wise with me, the benefits of Olympic Weight lifting, perhaps? The benefits of Olympic Wrestling for the Kung fu practitioners?:rolleyes:

So yes, don't reply to me, as you would not know where to start.......




but thanks for the laugh this morning :)

Hey all the laughs are mine, I still chuckle at your implied recommendation of Olympic Weight training for Chow Gar Internal practice....Yes, you might as well not reply to me if you are going to make "contributions" like this to TCMA discussions...LOL, LOL, LOL!

[Hardwork108]

good luck with the body unity and relaxation thing when you are being thrown 6 feet in the air, striking only works if the takedown and momentum has been stopped otherwise you are off balance and going down

It is obvious that you have no idea in h&ll of what I am talking about, so perhaps you should go back to "not replying", as it will be the best way to save face!

Every Once in a while I throw in some of the lesser known TCMA practices and concepts just to see the MMA-ist knucklehead "warrior gods" of this forum, trip over their tongues, and it works EVERY TIME! LOL

[Reyth]

go try it with a wrestler video it and show us how it worked out for you :)

a shot has momentum and surprise behind it, if you want to put yourself on one leg as he comes into you then be my guest, he will think its christmas time :)

you want to hit the guy do it before he shoots or after you have stuffef the take down

Well there are timing and spatial issues and "going onto one leg" is not a passive stance but has a momentum of its own with a tremendous force but you raise an excellent point about having to stuff the takedown (because the surprise worked). I love what that MT boxer did with his grappler -- broke the arm grip, held him at arm's length and fired multiple knee shots to the head. :D

[Dragonzbane76]

a shot has momentum and surprise behind it, if you want to put yourself on one leg as he comes into you then be my guest, he will think its christmas time

you want to hit the guy do it before he shoots or after you have stuffef the take down

sprawl is the safest and quickest way to negate the shot. People really don't seem to understand that a shot changes levels so fast and the momentum behind it carries the other target back. So how is one suppose to strike when there center is not even rooted? No leverage means no power and therefore no "knockout" by some elaborate crap.

[Frost]

When have I ever asked YOU for a reply...LOL

Why reply, when your contributions in a KUNG FU forum, are limited to MMA subjects. What could you possibly discuss TCMA wise with me, the benefits of Olympic Weight lifting, perhaps? The benefits of Olympic Wrestling for the Kung fu practitioners?:rolleyes:

So yes, don't reply to me, as you would not know where to start.......





Hey all the laughs are mine, I still chuckle at your implied recommendation of Olympic Weight training for Chow Gar Internal practice....Yes, you might as well not reply to me if you are going to make "contributions" like this to TCMA discussions...LOL, LOL, LOL!

im replying because you are even more clueless on this point than normal...which is saying something :D

Lesser known practises, coming from a guy who wont name his teachers out of sheer fear of being laughed at ;o) …. and the one we know about got his as$ handed to him by all accounts at a gathering here in the UK and now lives in the jungle….. and how much you trained with him is still open for debate :o) again thanks for the laugh :o)

Some of us were doing short range power strikes and relaxation training when you were still reading all about kung fu in magazines and wishing you could train like the guys in the shaolin temple movies (oh wait that was last week) it still fails to address several fundamental issues: being hit by forward momentum which destroys balance, being physically uprooted and either driven side ways or straight backwards or lifted in the air (all of which negate structure and balance) or the fact the shooter is upright so there’s no target to hit and lifting your hands up gives him exactly what he wants, unopposed access to your lower body…about the only thing you could use your short range power for is hitting him (and I do mean hit) with a cross face…….but thanks for playing the game :o)

The whole body unity relaxation thing has been done to death on this forum and no one has shown it to actually work against anyone, even you with your limited intellect must wonder how good a method it is if no one can make it work or show it to work

[Frost]

Well there are timing and spatial issues and "going onto one leg" is not a passive stance but has a momentum of its own with a tremendous force but you raise an excellent point about having to stuff the takedown (because the surprise worked). I love what that MT boxer did with his grappler -- broke the arm grip, held him at arm's length and fired multiple knee shots to the head. :D


Going onto one leg no matter how you do it is a bad idea without first stopping momentum, it limits your ability to move and allows him to switch to a single and still finish the takedown

And that’s what everyone with any sense advocates, stopping the take down first and then hitting, doing anything else is low percentage and basically giving the wrestler what he wants, access to your body

[Frost]

sprawl is the safest and quickest way to negate the shot. People really don't seem to understand that a shot changes levels so fast and the momentum behind it carries the other target back. So how is one suppose to strike when there center is not even rooted? No leverage means no power and therefore no "knockout" by some elaborate crap.

Yep it’s not like a wrestler or MMA fighter wants to sprawl, they would love to just kick the guy or knock him out on the way in it just doesn’t happen like that. Even with a badly telegraphed shot you still need to either circle out with pressure on them or level change and use under hooks to stop the momentum before striking, otherwise they will put you on your backside

[Dragonzbane76]

Yep it’s not like a wrestler or MMA fighter wants to sprawl, they would love to just kick the guy or knock him out on the way in it just doesn’t happen like that. Even with a badly telegraphed shot you still need to either circle out with pressure on them or level change and use under hooks to stop the momentum before striking, otherwise they will put you on your backside

jee common sense and logic whats up with all that...? :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here's a vid I located that shows how a boxer understands the intent of an opponent that is a grappler. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ0HCXRgU5g&feature=related

Actually thatis NOT a boxer but a MT fighter that trains VS MMA guys.
Pele goes to the Chute academy if I recall correctly.

[TenTigers]

Executed properly this strike can be effective on most parts of the head. One would need the right kind of Internal body unity and relaxation, things which unfortunately are not taught in external MAs, nor are most kung fu stylists nowadays exposed to. The few sifus who know of these aspects, are choosy about who they teach it to, and rightly so.

Hence we have the erroneous image of TCMAs as being unfunctional and weak, but then he who is ready and searches will have a good chance of finding real kung fu, otherwise they can try a nearby MMA or kickboxing gym.

throwing any technique correctly, be it a jab, hook,reverse punch, etc requires the fighter to have internal body unity and relaxation, if it is done correctly. This is nothing new.
Even Karate has this-when practiced correctly.

The problem is due to inexperienced people teaching, then elevating those poorly taught students to teachers themselves, and spreading the poor technique.
Boxing, Karate, etc is never stiff. An arm cannot move with speed
(mass x acceleration=force of impact) unless it is relaxed,
and using simply a limb as opposed to the connection of the entire body is mere flailing of the arms.
Everybody knows this, except HW108-so..who is clueless?

HW- you do exactly what you accuse everyone else of. You are completely ignorant of the methods of the other arts which you put down with your arrogance.

[Frost]

throwing any technique correctly, be it a jab, hook,reverse punch, etc requires the fighter to have internal body unity and relaxation, if it is done correctly. This is nothing new.
Even Karate has this-when practiced correctly.

The problem is due to inexperienced people teaching, then elevating those poorly taught students to teachers themselves, and spreading the poor technique.
Boxing, Karate, etc is never stiff. An arm cannot move with speed
(mass x acceleration=force of impact) unless it is relaxed,
and using simply a limb as opposed to the connection of the entire body is mere flailing of the arms.
Everybody knows this, except HW108-so..who is clueless?

HW- you do exactly what you accuse everyone else of. You are completely ignorant of the methods of the other arts which you put down with your arrogance.

Wow not even I can make ten tigers go off on one like this, when done HW108

To be fair he picks and chooses that he considers internal arts anyway, chow gar and wing chun as taught correctly are pure internal arts apparently, news to me I thought chow gar was at the more external end of the southern mantis spectrum and considered a external/internal mix by some, as for wing chun lets not even go there :o)

And I suspect he considers scholars like Adam Hsu who have pointed out the fact there was really no internal/external division in the history of the Chinese arts until people with no real fighting/training came along and wanted to make their art form sound unique (and that there is no clear marker as to what is the difference between the two in any writing anyway) to be as clueless as us MMA knuckle heads :o)

Lets be honest he has no real credibility on this forum, he calls two of the most respected practitioners of TCMA on this board, Ronin and David Ross frauds (like then or loath them no sane person would actually question the legitimacy of the training they have received) his only known teacher is pretty much a laughing stock here and even his distanced himself from HW108, and the way he acts about his precious real TCMA is how so many delusional beginners and fantasy LARPers act, no one with real training considers what they do that special and unique

[KC Elbows]

I have it on good authority that Sanjuro-Ronin is actually a glorified kickboxer. And currently LKFMDC is a middle aged Indian woman with three kids and an underemployed husband. She will be contacting us at 8 AM on Saturday mornings to politely request we pay our late fees to glorified kickboxing, and would we like the new san da identity theft protection.

[EarthDragon]

frost,
its amazes me that you called me a liar for 3 days in a row on this thread, then when I posted proof and told you what I said, ( not what kniefighter inturepreted incorrectly) you decided not to reply to my post.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

:DIn all actuality Dave Ross is the only person that posts on this website. Let's just be honest and let the cat out of the bag. I have been talking to myself for years until HW108 showed up, it is nice to finally have someone to talk to. You see, every single person on this website is simply an account I have created and have spent years talking to myself until Hardwork showed up. Thanks HW, it's been lonely around here until now!

[David Jamieson]

frost,
its amazes me that you called me a liar for 3 days in a row on this thread, then when I posted proof and told you what I said, not what kniefighter inturepreted incorrectly you decided not to reply to my post.

I wouldn't sweat it ED.

Many people do not face their mistakes or errors.
Even more so in such an environment as this where it is anonymous quite a lot except for those who have undertaken to in some way get to know those people who we consider somewhat on the level.

What matters is what is true. Guys ragging on anyone because they lack understanding, knowledge or even don't get the idea that there is not one way to do anything really, those guys aren't there yet. They really want to try and dominate in some way or validate in some other way or they are just generally negative to begin with.

In my opinion, that is their hot stone to carry. :)
Don't make it yours.

But by all means, always troll the trolls.
I don't care if someone was president, belligerence is belligerence.
I find it odd that it comes from some guys with 50 trips around the sun and I feel a little bad for them that they suffer inside that much that they let it fall out here or anywhere else.

all good. :)

[EarthDragon]

haha thanks David, it does get frustrasting though, reminds me of a guy I beat up for acting like a jerk, then when he gets in his car and drives away he screams YOUR LUCKY MAN YOUR DEAD NEXT TIME I SEE YOU... LOL true story BTW happend to me at a bar back in the 90's

[KC Elbows]

I don't care if someone was president, belligerence is belligerence.


Quoted for truth.

A guy was talking to me about how great George Carlin was, and he mentioned all the later griping as how great he was, and I pointed out that George Carlin was recognized as great for much eaarlier and better material, and that the griping was an imitation of younger guys like Dennis Leary in the early nineties, not anything original or well done in comparison to either his earlier work or the work of they guys who popularized the comedic gripe.

[Dragonzbane76]

In all actuality Dave Ross is the only person that posts on this website. Let's just be honest and let the cat out of the bag. I have been talking to myself for years until HW108 showed up, it is nice to finally have someone to talk to. You see, every single person on this website is simply an account I have created and have spent years talking to myself until Hardwork showed up. Thanks HW, it's been lonely around here until now!

true story... :p

[YouKnowWho]

stopping the take down first and then hitting, ...

Agree!

- Move your leading leg back.
- Put your hands behind your opponent's neck, and
- Press your opponent's head 45 degree down to the ground (this move is called "dog eats sh!t").

After you have guided your opponent's face to meet the ground, you can strike him anyway you want after that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have it on good authority that Sanjuro-Ronin is actually a glorified kickboxer. And currently LKFMDC is a middle aged Indian woman with three kids and an underemployed husband. She will be contacting us at 8 AM on Saturday mornings to politely request we pay our late fees to glorified kickboxing, and would we like the new san da identity theft protection.

Glorified and proud of it !
:D
As for LKFMDC, it's true, she is an indian woman:
http://www.priyarai-blog.com/images/sexy-momma.jpg

[Hardwork108]

throwing any technique correctly, be it a jab, hook,reverse punch, etc requires the fighter to have internal body unity and relaxation, if it is done correctly. This is nothing new.
Even Karate has this-when practiced correctly.

I am very well aware of that, but the internal body unity of karate is not the same as the one in Chow Gar!!!!

The Chow Gar body unity principles part ways with the WC, which is supposed to be a related art!!!

How do you explain that????

You probably can't because you were exposed to different teachings as far as Choiw Gar is concerned!


The problem is due to inexperienced people teaching, then elevating those poorly taught students to teachers themselves, and spreading the poor technique.
Yes, I am also aware of that, just take a look at the "enlightening" posts in this very thread......



Boxing, Karate, etc is never stiff. An arm cannot move with speed
(mass x acceleration=force of impact) unless it is relaxed,
and using simply a limb as opposed to the connection of the entire body is mere flailing of the arms.

Where did I say otherwise??????????????

All I say is that there are different body unity principles involved, and some of them are very rarely taught, when taught, they are not divulged to any Tom, **** and Harry, and for good reason too!!




Everybody knows this, except HW108-so..who is clueless?
You are make false insinuations, because you have no idea of the body unity principles I am referring to.


HW- you do exactly what you accuse everyone else of. You are completely ignorant of the methods of the other arts which you put down with your arrogance.

It has nothing to do with arrogance. Also, I know more about Karate, than you perhaps imagine.

Yes, every art has its body unity principles, but don't pretend that the boxing body unity principles are the same as karate' s, nor that those of Karate's are the same as Chow Gar's!!!

And please stop insulting me, try to comprehend that there are methodolgies that you are unfamiliar with, otherwise you end up sitting in the same basket as the MMA knuckleheads who are here to solely TEACH, and not LEARN!

[sanjuro_ronin]

You do know that these
Internal body unity and relaxation, methods of Chow gar, were found in common with the Indian and Thai Arts by Paul Whithrod in his studies into those systems.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It has nothing to do with arrogance. Also, I know more about Karate, than you perhaps imagine.

Yes, every art has its body unity principles, but don't pretend that the boxing body unity principles are the same as karate' s, nor that those of Karate's are the same as Chow Gar's!!!

And please stop insulting me, try to comprehend that there are methodolgies that you are unfamiliar with, otherwise you end up sitting in the same basket as the MMA knuckleheads who are here to solely TEACH, and not LEARN!

Welcome to the club of cluelessness, TT, where we as MMA minions rain down the fire and brimstone that is our uber sexy sweaty grappling and anti TCMA methodologies that we are clueless about compared to the great Hardwork and his staggering body of martial arts accomplishments................................... .................................................. ....(crickets chirping)........................................( crickets chirping)

[Hardwork108]

im replying because you are even more clueless on this point than normal...which is saying something :D
You may be clueless as far as the TCMAs are concerned, but at least you have definitely learned the ancient art of irony......:rolleyes:


Lesser known practises, coming from a guy who wont name his teachers out of sheer fear of being laughed at ;o) ….
Yes, and we all know that the kung fu-clueless MMA-ists who post here know all of the genuine kung fu masters on the planet.........:rolleyes:


and the one we know about got his as$ handed to him by all accounts at a gathering here in the UK and now lives in the jungle…..
You have taken another forum member's LIE and added your own. I hope that you are proud of being so weak!

Talking about lies, you also lied about EarthDragon, he proved you WRONG, and instead of apologizing to him, like a MAN (which is evidently too much to ask of the likes of you), you turng around and spread more lies about me!!!

WAY TO GO!!!

Well, now we know why you don't want anyone to teach you respect and morality, because, in order to do so, at this stage in your life, they would have to beat you half to death!!!


and how much you trained with him is still open for debate :o¨

Long enough to know infinitely more than the likes of you.;)


again thanks for the laugh :o)
No problem. I know that you are laughing out of embarassment, and that is what I am here to do to all of you clueless MMA-ists! LOL


Some of us were doing short range power strikes and relaxation training when you were still reading all about kung fu in magazines and wishing you could train like the guys in the shaolin temple movies
Yes, we all heard of your "short range" power development through Olympic Weight training practice.LOL,LOL,LOL!

Christ! You couldn't invent this stuff!!!!!!!!!!


(oh wait that was last week) it still fails to address several fundamental issues: being hit by forward momentum which destroys balance, being physically uprooted and either driven side ways or straight backwards or lifted in the air (all of which negate structure and balance) or the fact the shooter is upright so there’s no target to hit and lifting your hands up gives him exactly what he wants, unopposed access to your lower body…about the only thing you could use your short range power for is hitting him (and I do mean hit) with a cross face…….but thanks for playing the game :o)

Just to say, that unlike the MMA knuckleheads who stay in the same place while exchanging blows, with the accompanying resultant brain damage, us TCMA-ist have super secret technique called, side stepping and using angles, but shooosh, don´t tell anyone.;)


The whole body unity relaxation thing has been done to death on this forum and no one has shown it to actually work against anyone, even you with your limited intellect must wonder how good a method it is if no one can make it work or show it to work

Well, one thing is for sure, and that is I am not holding my breath for any you MMA knuckleheads to show the effectiveness this or any other TCMA principle!

PS. I hope that TenTigers is reading your last paragraph!!!!!

[Hardwork108]

You do know that these methods of Chow gar, were found in common with the Indian and Thai Arts by Paul Whithrod in his studies into those systems.

Do you know that Paul Whitrod knows more about what I am talking about, than you may think.;)

[Hardwork108]

haha thanks David, it does get frustrasting though, reminds me of a guy I beat up for acting like a jerk, then when he gets in his car and drives away he screams YOUR LUCKY MAN YOUR DEAD NEXT TIME I SEE YOU... LOL true story BTW happend to me at a bar back in the 90's

I would not be surprised if that guy you beat up is a MMA-ist posting in this very forum, and is here to punish all of us TCMA-ists, for what you did to him...;)

[EarthDragon]

HD108


I would not be surprised if that guy you beat up is a MMA-ist posting in this very forum, and is here to punish all of us TCMA-ists, for what you did to him

LOL perhaps, please raise your hand if you were at Mankins nightclub 1565 Niagara Fallls blvd, amherst NY 14226 on the night of July 15 1994 and sped off in a late model black chevy monte carlo.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Do you know that Paul Whitrod knows more about what I am talking about, than you may think.;)

Indeed, that is why when he says that he has seen those very things in other systems, to which I agree since I, like Rik, have seen them too, I believe him.

[Hardwork108]

Indeed, that is why when he says that he has seen those very things in other systems, to which I agree since I, like Rik, have seen them too, I believe him.

What I meant was that there is "unofficial" stuff that he does not talk about.;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

What I meant was that there is "unofficial" stuff that he does not talk about.;)

Well...you know...that "unofficial stuff", it's useless without the OFFICIAL stuff.
Have you spoken of even exchanged correspondence with Paul?

[TenTigers]

[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1044258]I am very well aware of that, but the internal body unity of karate is not the same as the one in Chow Gar!!!!

The Chow Gar body unity principles part ways with the WC, which is supposed to be a related art!!!

How do you explain that????

Simple. I didn't say that they were the same, I said that there are commonalities which they, and all TMA share.

You probably can't because you were exposed to different teachings as far as Choiw Gar is concerned!

Don't be so haughty and quick to as$ume. My Si-Sook trained in Chow-Gar as well as Jook Lum, so I was in fact, "exposed" to alot more than you realize.


All I say is that there are different body unity principles involved, and some of them are very rarely taught, when taught, they are not divulged to any Tom, **** and Harry, and for good reason too!!

and, they also share many of the same things, although it is hard to find a good teacher



You are make false insinuations, because you have no idea of the body unity principles I am referring to.

you are guessing here. I am well aware of dip guat ging, hoi hop, foa chum, toe tun, geng jak ging, chuen ging,etc.



It has nothing to do with arrogance. Also, I know more about Karate, than you perhaps imagine.

I would certainly be surprised. Your statements convey otherwise.

Yes, every art has its body unity principles, but don't pretend that the boxing body unity principles are the same as karate' s, nor that those of Karate's are the same as Chow Gar's!!!

again, I didn't say they were the same, just that there are certain things they share.


And please stop insulting me, try to comprehend that there are methodolgies that you are unfamiliar with, otherwise you end up sitting in the same basket as the MMA knuckleheads who are here to solely TEACH, and not LEARN!

And please stop insulting me and others on this forum. You have no clue about me, where I've been, what I know and don't know.
BTW- I would be honored to be sitting in that "Basket" with some of the "Meatheads" on this forum. "Clueless Meatheads," that in fact have trained many years in TCMA, and have an empty cup.
They realise that there are higher mountains, and keep searching.

"A wise man will search for an answer, while the fool thinks he is already there."

[Hardwork108]

Well...you know...that "unofficial stuff", it's useless without the OFFICIAL stuff.
Not necessarilly. I am not talking about Dimmak, or similar methodologies, even if they become more relevant when certain "unofficial" methodologies are mastered.


Have you spoken of even exchanged correspondence with Paul?
Please check your PM. :)

[Kansuke]

Apparently not enough, because most of the grapplers who post here, which I will remind you and the likes of you again, is a KUNG FU FORUM, are pompous and rude so and so's!


Have you considered the possibility that the problem is YOU, Grandmaster Fraud?

[Hardwork108]

Simple. I didn't say that they were the same, I said that there are commonalities which they, and all TMA share.

That did not appear the context in which you stated what you stated. You made it sound like it is all the same.

I mean why state the obvious, ie. "you have to be relaxed and have body unity to perform karate, Boxing, etc. techniques.

Did ever say, that you needed to be tense to perform in those arts?



Don't be so haughty and quick to as$ume. My Si-Sook trained in Chow-Gar as well as Jook Lum, so I was in fact, "exposed" to alot more than you realize.

I have no idea to the type of Chow Gar you have been exposed to. All I know, that you and others, who "train" similar TCMAs to me, "misunderstand" me everytime I mention some fundamental, if not very well known, aspects, and go on to automatically assume that I am d!ck waving, leading to you lot lashing back in a very insecure manner.


and, they also share many of the same things, although it is hard to find a good teacher
Of course, they share many things, but some of the lesser known differences may surprise you.


you are guessing here. I am well aware of dip guat ging, hoi hop, foa chum, toe tun, geng jak ging, chuen ging,etc.
Yet, every time I hint (saying more would not be right) at the Chow Gar methodologies, nobody seems to know what I am talking about. So people, with "decades" of experience start ridiculing and calling them "fantasy".


I would certainly be surprised. Your statements convey otherwise.
The world is full of surprises, and believe me, there is a lot of TCMA methodologies out there that none of us have any clue about.


again, I didn't say they were the same, just that there are certain things they share.
And again, that is not how you came across. You came across, as if it is all the same, and that I am making a big deal out of the TCMA angle!!!

I mean why mention the obvious, "you need to have body unity and be relaxed during the performance of karate and boxing techniques", well duh!!!



And please stop insulting me and others on this forum. You have no clue about me, where I've been, what I know and don't know.

I have no idea of what you know, but I am beginning to have an idea of what you don't know. ;)

But I guess, none of us know all there is to know, do we?



BTW- I would be honored to be sitting in that "Basket" with some of the "Meatheads" on this forum.

Well, that is you. Personally, I would not want to be sitting in the same bus as them!



"Clueless Meatheads," that in fact have trained many years in TCMA,

The world is full of Clueless Meatheads who have for many years "trained TCMA". I wish I had a dime for every one of them who posts here...LOL!


and have an empty cup.
The problem seems to be that they have never had any full cups to start with, or their cups have been empty for all the wrong reasons.


They realise that there are higher mountains, and keep searching.
Unfortunately, their "mountains" are limited to the MMA peaks, which puts into question their existance in this forum (the subject matter of this thread, by the way), and their insistent bad mouthing of kung fu methodologies that they are totally clueless of, despite their "decades" of "TCMA" experiende (falls off chair laughing)!


"A wise man will search for an answer, while the fool thinks he is already there."

Actually, "a wise man will be on the right path, while the fool will be searching like h&ll, in the wrong places!"

That is I have never claimed mastery of kung fu, and I repeat, I am no where near being a sifu.
However, I am on the right path because of I have found authentic schools. Whereas many people here, including their grandmothers apparently, see the "salvation" of kung fu in the modern MMA methodology, rather than studying the arts in a profound manner under qualified instruction, hence their clueless comments and recommendations for "improving" kung fu, based on their Mckung fu, rather than anything solid, as regards TCMA understanding.

Sorry, being a good MMA fighter does not qualify one to criticize methodologie with which one has some passing familiarity courtesy of some Mcdojo!!!

Thank you for your time!

[Hardwork108]

Have you considered the possibility that the problem is YOU, Grandmaster Fraud?

Hello Dave Ross,

Couldn't stay away, could you? LOL!

[bawang]

***** wenis

[EarthDragon]

wait is kansuke david ross? so he posts as an alias? really?

[KC Elbows]

We are all David Ross, who is, ironically, Spartacus.

[bawang]

i dream i am david ross. i have hundreds of students, i make 100 hundred thousand a year, i drive mercedes, and i bang bang bang in anoos many sexy ladies no fee.

then i wake up in a dark indian basement smelling like chutney and samosa, and i cry and masterbate furiously with rage.

ONE DAY DAVID ROSS ONE DAY

[Hardwork108]

wait is kansuke david ross? so he posts as an alias? really?

I believe Kansuke to be Dave Ross, and the poster "Bawang" seems to fall in line with Dave Ross's MO.

[bawang]

i listen to david ross advice and stop doing forms. now eveyr kung fu guy laugh at me and make fun of me lower my self esteem. thanks for nothing david ross

[Hardwork108]

i listen to david ross advice and stop doing forms. now eveyr kung fu guy laugh at me and make fun of me lower my self esteem. thanks for nothing david ross

That is good Dave Ross, listen to yourself and you will be fine, soon you will be the king of the kickboxers, and your school, New York San Duh! will conquer the world.....

[bawang]

i think colombia is dirty country. they are poar.

[IronWeasel]

i dream i am david ross. i have hundreds of students, i make 100 hundred thousand a year, i drive mercedes, and i bang bang bang in anoos many sexy ladies no fee.

then i wake up in a dark indian basement smelling like chutney and samosa, and i cry and masterbate furiously with rage.

ONE DAY DAVID ROSS ONE DAY



LOLz! Man, I needed that. I laughed so hard, I almost choked on my coffee:D

[Hardwork108]

i "think" .

A small step for mankind, a huge step for Dave Ross.........

[bawang]

colombia poar no monies. hobo wagabond kung fu wingchun suits colombians perfectly.

stop hiding behind your fake alias, leung ting. i know its u.

[Kansuke]

wait is kansuke david ross? so he posts as an alias? really?

No, not really. Grandmaster Fraud thinks everyone is Ross. It's his own little insanity.

[TenTigers]

well, I'm not going to go through your response line by line.
I think this is really the crux of the matter: I think you can contribute alot to this forum, but your presentation needs work.
It's all about presentation.
ex: take a few slices of squid, place them on a block of wood sit it on a dock, and you have two bucks worth of bait.
Now, take that same squid on the block of wood, add some wasabi, pickled ginger,shredded daikon, and those plastic green fake leafy things,
and voila!- an eighteen dollar order of Sashimi!
If you drop out all the crap talk about people being clueless, meatheads, etc.
Actually contribute little more than, "I know and you don't, and I won't tell you-nyah-nyah!" Stop speaking from that pedestal you place yourself up on, you may actually be listened to instead of ridiculed.

[TenTigers]

as far as gau choy is concerned, yes-it is a descending hammerfist, but the body drops, and coils to deliver the strike with short power that is extremely powerful. It is usually delivered to the rear side of the hinge of the jaw, but can come down anywhere, and might be a good defense against a shoot, when combined with a sprawl. I am speculating as I have not put it into the "lab," as of yet, but it is food for thought.
Nota be all, end all, but may still be a viable technique nonetheless.

[Kansuke]

You've got a better chance of getting those pieces of squid to understand you than Grandmaster Fraud there.

[Kansuke]

as far as gau choy is concerned, yes-it is a descending hammerfist, but the body drops, and coils to deliver the strike with short power that is extremely powerful. It is usually delivered to the rear side of the hinge of the jaw, but can come down anywhere, and might be a good defense against a shoot, when combined with a sprawl.



Do you mean after you have sprawled?

[Hardwork108]

well, I'm not going to go through your response line by line.
I think this is really the crux of the matter: I think you can contribute alot to this forum, but your presentation needs work.
It's all about presentation.
ex: take a few slices of squid, place them on a block of wood sit it on a dock, and you have two bucks worth of bait.
Now, take that same squid on the block of wood, add some wasabi, pickled ginger,shredded daikon, and those plastic green fake leafy things,
and voila!- an eighteen dollar order of Sashimi!
If you drop out all the crap talk about people being clueless, meatheads, etc.
Actually contribute little more than, "I know and you don't, and I won't tell you-nyah-nyah!" Stop speaking from that pedestal you place yourself up on, you may actually be listened to instead of ridiculed.

Fortunately for me most of the people who "ridicule" me, do not do it from a TCMA point of reference but an MMA one, albeit a kung fu-clueless one! Which again puts into question their existanc in this forum - THE ACTUAL SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS THREAD!

I know what you mean about "presentation", but where were you when our clueless MMA collegues were chasing TCMA posters out of this forum. I have seen other TCMA-ists who stopped posting, because all they could see, anytime they logged on was a bunch of clueless knuckleheads, with the usual "decades of experience" (presumably, in getting brain damage), preaching about the how useless TCMAs were, and that you could not fight unless you adopted their MMA methodologies!

Where were you, when the none-TCMA posters were being rude and not being so "careful", with the presentation of their anti TCMA messages in this, a KUNG FU FORUM????

[Hardwork108]

Do you mean after you have sprawled?

:rolleyes:

[Kansuke]

Grandmaster Whiney-***** Fraud :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

Grandmaster Whiney-***** Fraud :rolleyes:

LOL! @ Dave Ross!

Gau Choi after a sprawl????????????????

Truly clueless!:rolleyes:

[taai gihk yahn]

wait is kansuke david ross? so he posts as an alias? really?

no; they are not the same person; but the manner in which they and bawang have weighed invective against HW108 is, in his estimation, too similar for them to not be the same person, if one can follow that logic; I guess it's easier to feel oneself reviled by one person using three accounts than by three separate people who do so in a similar manner?
anyway, I have attempted in good faith to provide HW108 w reasons based on my own experience as to why they are not the same person (for example, I've been at Dave's school and gone onto the forum from there while he was teaching a class, and kansuke was posting; bawang I have exchanged e-mails with and have seen him doing some techniques on video) but since I cannot prove this to his satisfaction, he persists in his belief; so at this point, I do not seek to disabuse him of his notion as it will be a fruitless endeavor

[Kansuke]

LOL! @ Dave Ross!



You'll know when I'm addressing you, Grandmaster Fraud, because I'll be telling you to STFU.


STFU.

[Hardwork108]

Well Ten Tigers, what is one supposed to say to people like this? With one breath Kansuke/Dave Ross, questions my qualifications and at the same time shows how clueless he is regarding the TCMAs.....thus validating the whole point of this thread!

[Hardwork108]

You'll know when I'm addressing you, Grandmaster Fraud, because I'll be telling you to STFU.


STFU.

Dave Ross's harmonious character virtues and patience,as acquired through years of training "authentic TCMAs":rolleyes:, are showing more and more.....LOL!

[EarthDragon]

thanks taai gihk yahn,
for clearing that up I thought it was a little weird to post on a board with an alias just to prove a point, but who knows stranger things have happned.

[Hardwork108]

thanks taai gihk yahn,
for clearing that up I thought it was a little weird to post on a board with an alias just to prove a point, but who knows stranger things have happned.

Well, I figure if they are not Dave Ross, then they must be his soulmates....LOL!

[Kansuke]

thanks taai gihk yahn,
for clearing that up I thought it was a little weird to post on a board with an alias just to prove a point, but who knows stranger things have happned.

What's wierd is Grandmaster Fraud's obsession with Ross.

[TenTigers]

as far as gau choy is concerned, during, or before..I would have to work it out in the lab, as I stated.
As far as David Ross being either Kansuke's or Bawang's soulmate, sure it makes sense.
Except for one minor detail.
LKFMDC HAS NO SOUL!!!!
He is a spawn of hell. The Antichrist! The Fourth Horseman of the Apocolypse!
(or is it the third..?) An eater of Human Flesh!A drinker of Blood! He is the Undead!
and a Jew...
ok, so he's not all bad...
he's probably one of those nasty Jews, though. You know the ones I mean. They cut in line and elbow their way past you at the deli...

[Kansuke]

as far as gau choy is concerned, during, or before..I would have to work it out in the lab, as I stated....


This is why I asked for clarification, since if before it would seem to be rather instead of a sprawl (and far less likely, imo) and if during the sprawl would compromise the power you could generate (as well as making the sprawl less likely to succeed).

[EarthDragon]

kansuke,
well you never know on this board... I gotta guy named knifefighter who is obsessed or in love with me, I cant figure it out but he follows me around and posts a negative comment on every thread I reply to, so again you never know what makes people tick.

[Hardwork108]

kansuke,
well you never know on this board... I gotta guy named knifefighter who is obsessed or in love with me, I cant figure it out but he follows me around and posts a negative comment on every thread I reply to, so again you never know what makes people tick.

Funnily enough, Kansuke (formerly Unkokusai), Bawang and Dragonzbane76, do the same to me. They have another thing in common, they are not TCMA-ists, while posting in this, a KUNG FU Forum.

[Hardwork108]

This is why I asked for clarification, since if before it would seem to be rather instead of a sprawl (and far less likely, imo) and if during the sprawl would compromise the power you could generate (as well as making the sprawl less likely to succeed).

The whole idea and the power advantages regarding the use of Gaw/Gao Choi are based on one using it while he is in his roots, otherwise he looses a lot of penetrative power, because of disconnection.

The rooting principles are linked directly to the body's internal unity, as developed in Chow Gar methodology, where the integrity of one's stance plays a fundamental roll in the issuing of power.

So, using this principle, the logical approach would be to work on the timing of the delivery, rather than practicing it from a sprawl position.

[Kansuke]

I don't recall telling you your input was in any way required or welcome, Grandmaster Fraud. STFU.

[Hardwork108]

who asked you, fool? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't recall telling you your input was in any way required or welcome, Grandmaster Fraud. STFU.


EarthDragon, have a look.

This is what happens when one tries to be civil with the none TCMA-ists infesting the internet!!!

And they want to be seriously by the few genuine TCMA-ists who post here.


Also, the poster Taai Gihk Yahn has been close friends with Dave Ross for more than two decades. Wether or not he would come here and tell everyone that Dave was posting under other forum handle is anyone's guess. I guess we will never know either way, but I believe this fact is worth noting.

[David Jamieson]

as far as gau choy is concerned, during, or before..I would have to work it out in the lab, as I stated.
As far as David Ross being either Kansuke's or Bawang's soulmate, sure it makes sense.
Except for one minor detail.
LKFMDC HAS NO SOUL!!!!
He is a spawn of hell. The Antichrist! The Fourth Horseman of the Apocolypse!
(or is it the third..?) An eater of Human Flesh!A drinker of Blood! He is the Undead!
and a Jew...
ok, so he's not all bad...
he's probably one of those nasty Jews, though. You know the ones I mean. They cut in line and elbow their way past you at the deli...

...and take that last knish you were eyeing up! :mad:

i mean the crunchy dill will have to suffice, but come on! Come ON!!

[Kansuke]

This is what happens when one tries to be civil .



I didn't tell you to be civil, I told you to STFU.

[Syn7]

Well the lack of video evidence of it is somewhat disturbing.

A far as training it, it would seem to me to be kind of dangerous because a full head shot is required at close range; if I was sparring someone, I would be concerned about hurting them... The clincher really puts themselves in a dangerous situation that requires their opponent to respond with potentially lethal force.

Good point about the knee; if the range is too short for the full kick, go to the knee... ;)

Excellent posts about this. Thanks.

yeah but what if you dont hit him flush and he's not very phased? or if you mistime it and miss alltogether... then what??? you go down and get the hammer treatement... so you need to learn to sprawl, learn how to use your hooks in the clinch, learn the footwork and how to gain position to strike... you'll never learn any of that without a good grappler for a training partner... because if a few strikers with no grappling experience try to use eachother to learn these things they'll find out real fast how inefective that is when a real grappler gets a hold of them... you always have the chance to knock em out... but what if you dont... or what if they train with great strikers??? then you lose... so round out, its important... lots of ways to do it... doesnt have to be bjj and muaythai...

[EarthDragon]

hardwork108

EarthDragon, have a look.
This is what happens when one tries to be civil with the none TCMA-ists infesting the internet!!!

And they want to be seriously by the few genuine TCMA-ists who post here.

I would suggest to you the same thing that someone suggested to me and it worked really well.
Put those who you dont like or dont want to read thier posts on the ignore list. I did this with knifefighter and it was th best thing I could have done, because if you cant reason or discuss with these people then not having to read thier posts is second best.

You see thier name but you cant read whatever crap they say.
I dont know what makes people on here act so childish as we are all supposed to be MA's in one form or another and should respect each others posts, and points of view.

But when all else fails fcuk 'em hit the ignore button and they will never bother you again.

Be well, and dont take it so personal....... there are many people who enjoy your posts and alot of them are very informative.

[David Jamieson]

This is actually the best way to peruse these forums lately. :p

[Hardwork108]

hardwork108


I would suggest to you the same thing that someone suggested to me and it worked really well.
Put those who you dont like or dont want to read thier posts on the ignore list. I did this with knifefighter and it was th best thing I could have done, because if you cant reason or discuss with these people then not having to read thier posts is second best.

You see thier name but you cant read whatever crap they say.
I dont know what makes people on here act so childish as we are all supposed to be MA's in one form or another and should respect each others posts, and points of view.

But when all else fails fcuk 'em hit the ignore button and they will never bother you again.

Be well, and dont take it so personal....... there are many people who enjoy your posts and alot of them are very informative.

Just took your advice.:)

[TenTigers]

The whole idea and the power advantages regarding the use of Gaw/Gao Choi are based on one using it while he is in his roots, otherwise he looses a lot of penetrative power, because of disconnection.

The rooting principles are linked directly to the body's internal unity, as developed in Chow Gar methodology, where the integrity of one's stance plays a fundamental roll in the issuing of power.

So, using this principle, the logical approach would be to work on the timing of the delivery, rather than practicing it from a sprawl position.
No. from a sprawl is too late, your body has dropped and you have no striking power.
yeah, y'see, our gau choy is generating power through internal unity,swallow, spit,float sink, open close, and whipping/coiling of the spine, but you can do this while sprawling, as all your body weight drops down-it actually makes this easier.
Loosen up and allow your body to whip as you drop the hammerfist-allow the elbow to drop first-I'm thinking collarbone/traps,neck, etc, Our gau-choy is delivered with the hammerfist/forearm, so you can see how that would easily connect to the body unity, yes?
Again, I need to work it out with a live opponent, otherwise it's pure conjecture=mental masturbation.

[Hardwork108]

No. from a sprawl is too late, your body has dropped and you have no striking power.
I meant hitting without sprawling, where one is in "sank" in his roots, or rooted.


yeah, y'see, our gau choy is generating power through internal unity,swallow, spit,float sink, open close, and whipping/coiling of the spine, but you can do this while sprawling, as all your body weight drops down-it actually makes this easier.
I guess your system's approach different. The way I see it in our system one does not sprawl, and uses his gao choi, or even elbow, to do job, without getting into a sprawl.


Loosen up and allow your body to whip as you drop the hammerfist-allow the elbow to drop first-I'm thinking collarbone/traps,neck, etc,

There is more than loosening up involved in our system. One would loosen up as well if he was using a WC hammer (or any other) blow, and yes these strikes exist in the Mainland Chinese WC lineage.


Our gau-choy is delivered with the hammerfist/forearm, so you can see how that would easily connect to the body unity, yes?
We don't use the forearm, just the fist, different principles, and also, the body unity (and even strength/power) concepts are very different from your Chow Gar.

These are not things that I can talk about, but if you remember, some time back, I asked you some questions about aspects of your Chow Gar. The reason was to indirectly find out wether your lineage followed the same Internal power and connectivity methodology. Back then I found out that this was not the case.

I am not saying that your system is not valid, I am just stating a fact, what you do is different to what I do, and on a fundamental level, at that.


Again, I need to work it out with a live opponent, otherwise it's pure conjecture=mental masturbation.

IMHO. some of the Chow Gar techniques, at least the lineage that I study, are all or nothing techniques, so even if some of the techniques don't work in sparring, does not mean that in real life, where you would be commited to hurting your attacker, they won't work. Of course, the reverse can also be true, where techniques that work in sparring, will not work in a fight where someone is trying to bite your head off.

[Frost]

frost,
its amazes me that you called me a liar for 3 days in a row on this thread, then when I posted proof and told you what I said, ( not what kniefighter inturepreted incorrectly) you decided not to reply to my post.

i decided not to reply because i felt what you wrote spoke for its self, however lives too short and if I read meaning into it that was not there then i apologise :)

[taai gihk yahn]

Also, the poster Taai Gihk Yahn has been close friends with Dave Ross for more than two decades. Wether or not he would come here and tell everyone that Dave was posting under other forum handle is anyone's guess. I guess we will never know either way, but I believe this fact is worth noting.

thanks for "outing" me :rolleyes:

you've made this point several times before, as if there was a mutual interdependency; meaning that only if I would be willing to reveal if Dave did have multiple accounts, can I be considered trustworthy enough to tell the truth if he didn't;

but you see, your "logic" is flawed: as a friend of Dave's, if he were posting under multiple accounts, it's true that, as his friend, I would probably not say anything; however, if he were posting under multiple accounts and I knew he was, it doesn't mean I would have to support that fiction by untruthfully claiming he wasn't - in fact, if he were posting under multiple accounts and I knew he was, my response would probably be to say nothing on the issue - so while I wouldn't rat him out, at the same time I would feel no obligation to propagate the fiction by claiming he wasn't multiple posting; now, if you think that strange, what can I say - friendship by definition presumes irrational bias towards another person - maybe you understand this, maybe you don't; whatever;

and again, whether you believe me or not is irrelevant at this point - I think that your penchant is to default to the most conspiracy-like explanation, and that is certainly your purview; OTOH, if you are going to try to convince others on here that Dave is multiple posting, I will simply counter your assertion to those other people, provide my rationale, and they an then decide for themselves;

[Frost]

No. from a sprawl is too late, your body has dropped and you have no striking power.
yeah, y'see, our gau choy is generating power through internal unity,swallow, spit,float sink, open close, and whipping/coiling of the spine, but you can do this while sprawling, as all your body weight drops down-it actually makes this easier.
Loosen up and allow your body to whip as you drop the hammerfist-allow the elbow to drop first-I'm thinking collarbone/traps,neck, etc, Our gau-choy is delivered with the hammerfist/forearm, so you can see how that would easily connect to the body unity, yes?
Again, I need to work it out with a live opponent, otherwise it's pure conjecture=mental masturbation.

Its nice to see traditional teachers not afraid to actually try their stuff out and thinking this stuff through.

Only things I would say are when you sprawl you are not dropping your upper body downwards but rather stopping him with your hips whilst moving your legs and bodyweight backwards, a good sprawl keeps your head up and your hips down which makes striking downward with any kind of power very hard.

You might also find if you try to strike before fully stopping the shot you give him access to your body and he will come up for a body lock if his structure is intact or shift to a single if structure is compromised.

I’ve actually found the crossface to be a very good close range strike, because it’s a sideways strike you can get your hips into it allowing for a lot of power in a short space, hey almost like short range power who would have thought it :o)

[Frost]

I meant hitting without sprawling, where one is in "sank" in his roots, or rooted.


I guess your system's approach different. The way I see it in our system one does not sprawl, and uses his gao choi, or even elbow, to do job, without getting into a sprawl.



There is more than loosening up involved in our system. One would loosen up as well if he was using a WC hammer (or any other) blow, and yes these strikes exist in the Mainland Chinese WC lineage.


We don't use the forearm, just the fist, different principles, and also, the body unity (and even strength/power) concepts are very different from your Chow Gar.

These are not things that I can talk about, but if you remember, some time back, I asked you some questions about aspects of your Chow Gar. The reason was to indirectly find out wether your lineage followed the same Internal power and connectivity methodology. Back then I found out that this was not the case.

I am not saying that your system is not valid, I am just stating a fact, what you do is different to what I do, and on a fundamental level, at that.



IMHO. some of the Chow Gar techniques, at least the lineage that I study, are all or nothing techniques, so even if some of the techniques don't work in sparring, does not mean that in real life, where you would be commited to hurting your attacker, they won't work. Of course, the reverse can also be true, where techniques that work in sparring, will not work in a fight where someone is trying to bite your head off.

Lol I was wondering how you could be so deluded about fighting and then I read the above, the old “it really really works honest defence” hasn’t been use for a while around here, nor has the “it doesn’t matter if I cant pull it off in sparring because somehow in a real fight it will suddenly actual be a viable technique” defence…….thanks for the smile

You are of course as always right because no one in sparring or competition fighting is looking to hurt their opponent, and hey just because you can make it work against a opponent who is fighting back and who is conditioned, experienced and used to taking punishment and actually knows what he is doing doesn’t give you any advantage on the street over someone who practices his techniques in the air and on pads because they are so dangerous…. :o)

No wonder you don’t think you need to sprawl because you can just root…lol haven’t heard that defence since royal dragon was posting on here!

[bawang]

u guys do know this guy has autism.

[taai gihk yahn]

u guys do know this guy has autism.

actually, I was actually leaning towards his having mild Asperger's based on his high degree of persistence to task and difficulty decoding social cues...but then again, I would say that about a lot of people here...

[taai gihk yahn]

You are of course as always right because no one in sparring or competition fighting is looking to hurt their opponent, and hey just because you can make it work against a opponent who is fighting back and who is conditioned, experienced and used to taking punishment and actually knows what he is doing doesn’t give you any advantage on the street over someone who practices his techniques in the air and on pads because they are so dangerous…. :o)
the counter-argument is that in "the street", anything can happen, which, of course, is true, but that's why many people carry firearms or blades, because they realize that all the training in the world with empty hand is much more likely to go down the drain in a about 5 seconds if you are facing an armed assailant; so if you want to argue hyper-realism, why even talk about empty-hand techniques? it should be all weapons-based (which is, not surprisingly, what CTS advocated - he himself said that to use empty hand against an armed assailant or group of assailants, was not particularly effective)

the thing about sparring is that it teaches you about being in the right place at the right time: meaning if I can't even manage to punch someone in the face with decent consistency, then how will I be able to do eye jabs, throat grabs, etc.; so one doesn't necessarily have to practice the exact technique, but can do something reasonably similar, as long as the context is reasonably close; again, it's a lot better than trusting that you will have this Kantian leap of faith from training under highly controlled to totally random...

btw, I am not making any assumptions as to how HW108 himself trains, I am making general statements about the nature of sparring w non-lethal techniques versus controlled training of "lethal" ones without having any opportunity to actually apply them

[bawang]

lol assburgers

[sanjuro_ronin]

LOLz! Man, I needed that. I laughed so hard, I almost choked on my coffee:D

He can be freaking awesome, can't he?
LMAO !!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Two things:
1)
Bawang and Kansuke are NOT Dave Ross, period, ok?


2)
Sinking and getting "rooted" vs a shoot or a take down is EXACTLY what a grappler wants.

Let that sink in.

I have shown this is NOT the way to go to MANY of my TCMA brothers, over and over.
They have failed, over and over to stop me.
Realize this:
I am NOT a very good grappler at all.

Note this:
IF I can do it to ALL the ones I have faced, enough said.

[goju]

Two things:
1)
Bawang and Kansuke are NOT Dave Ross, period, ok?

I dunno that sounds like something david ross would say to throw hardwork off his trail... (eyes sanjuro suspiciously)

[Dragonzbane76]

Two things:
1)
Bawang and Kansuke are NOT Dave Ross, period, ok?


2)
Sinking and getting "rooted" vs a shoot or a take down is EXACTLY what a grappler wants.

Let that sink in.

I have shown this is NOT the way to go to MANY of my TCMA brothers, over and over.
They have failed, over and over to stop me.
Realize this:
I am NOT a very good grappler at all.

Note this:
IF I can do it to ALL the ones I have faced, enough said.

you can't argue with brainwashed now can you.


I meant hitting without sprawling, where one is in "sank" in his roots, or rooted.


I guess your system's approach different. The way I see it in our system one does not sprawl, and uses his gao choi, or even elbow, to do job, without getting into a sprawl.

I smiled deep within my soul....today is a fine day. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

I dunno that sounds like something david ross would say to throw hardwork off his trail... (eyes sanjuro suspiciously)

LMAO !
http://flowstate.homestead.com/files/spartacus.gif

[lkfmdc]

According to the troll known as hardwork I am bawang, kansuke, sanjuro, knifefighter AND dragon

Apparently it is easier to believe in conspiracy than face the fact you are wildly unpopular :D

Others have accused Gene of being me!

Some people have no sense of humor

[TenTigers]

HW-when you pm'd me, I was speaking with you on Jook Lum, not Chow Gar-might be why you noticed a difference..?



our system does not have a sprawl either. It is an adaptation to grappling attacks, which were not an issue when these systems were developed, but certainly are an issue now. Sure, wrestling existed, but the Hakka arts were developed for very specific purposes.

when you speak of not sprawling, and being able to root, do yourself a favor. Find a friend who has a few months of High School wrestling, and ask him to shoot-for real.
There was a video on youtube, forgot who did it, I think it was that MMA guy who does the funny, and truthfull vids in the bar (someone help me out here)
ok, anyway, he shows exactly why most downward strikes will not work from this situation, one of them being that the elbow itself is not really hitting, but the upper arm/tricep, and there is no way to maintain any type of structure to pull it off with any negligable power.
Sure, yo can argue,"What does a MMA meathead know about Hakka Kuen?"
However, what do you know about the shoot, and how to sprawl?
It is obvious that you have never been on the recieving end of a decent (not even a great) shoot.
I have. A decent wrestler (I had the opportunity to be skooled by a high level collegiate/greco-roman wrestler..lucky me..) will shoot and slam you so fast to the ground, it'll take your lights out.
A lame wrestler will be just as successful, but not as explosive-you will still go down. With only a little instruction, anyone with a degree of coordination can learn a decent shoot and be **** effective with it-which is why it is so dangerous. It's very, very common.

[IronWeasel]

I dunno that sounds like something david ross would say to throw hardwork off his trail... (eyes sanjuro suspiciously)



"Sanjuro" and "David Ross" are fictitious characters created by Bawang.

You can tell because the photos of them look fake!

[lkfmdc]

"Sanjuro" and "David Ross" are fictitious characters created by Bawang.

You can tell because the photos of them look fake!

Do you remember Doo Wai thinking my avatar was an actual pic of me and calling me "the African American person" :D

(I do not lie)

[hskwarrior]

Do you remember Doo Wai thinking my avatar was an actual pic of me and calling me "the African American person"

(I do not lie)

no way. the one u currently use?

[IronWeasel]

Do you remember Doo Wai thinking my avatar was an actual pic of me and calling me "the African American person" :D

(I do not lie)



Yeah...:cool:

Where did you come up with that avatar, anyway?

[David Jamieson]

According to the troll known as hardwork I am bawang, kansuke, sanjuro, knifefighter AND dragon

Apparently it is easier to believe in conspiracy than face the fact you are wildly unpopular :D

Others have accused Gene of being me!

Some people have no sense of humor

Being wildly unpopular is not always a bad thing.
Sometimes it leads to a sea change which can set a transformation process on the roll.

also, some conspiracies really are just that. :p

[Dragonzbane76]

Sometimes it leads to a sea change which can set a transformation process on the roll.

I guess we can dream....and hope for the best. :)

[lkfmdc]

no way. the one u currently use?

YES!

I have always had the same avatar!

If you want evidence he isn't "all there" I think that would go a long way!

[Dragonzbane76]

If you want evidence he isn't "all there" I think that would go a long way

go back and read some of his past posts if you need any other proof.

Just go down the the other Topics at the bottom and he's got it full of conspiracy theory crap about the end of the world coming, something about the US and MMA meatheads, you know his usual rants. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

go back and read some of his past posts if you need any other proof.

Just go down the the other Topics at the bottom and he's got it full of conspiracy theory crap about the end of the world coming, something about the US and MMA meatheads, you know his usual rants. :rolleyes:

actually, I was talking in that case about Doo Wai, but I think we have already established that our spartan friend "hardwork" is a head case as well

[IronWeasel]

actually, I was talking in that case about Doo Wai, but I think we have already established that our spartan friend "hardwork" is a head case as well



Lol!

That says a lot, that people confuse Doo Wai and Hardwork...:D

[David Jamieson]

Lol!

That says a lot, that people confuse Doo Wai and Hardwork...:D

Doo Wai is Hardwork108 and Dr.Harut!

[Hardwork108]

I smiled deep within my soul....today is a fine day. :p

There is a saying from where I come from, "for insane people, every day is a 'fine' day".....;)

[Hardwork108]

2)
Sinking and getting "rooted" vs a shoot or a take down is EXACTLY what a grappler wants.

Let that sink in.

I have shown this is NOT the way to go to MANY of my TCMA brothers, over and over.
They have failed, over and over to stop me.
Realize this:
I am NOT a very good grappler at all.

Note this:
IF I can do it to ALL the ones I have faced, enough said.

I think you may have misunderstood me. My reference to sinking was to make the Gao Choi work in the way it is meant to work. So, when one decides to use this strike against an available target, independent of the fact wether the available target happens to be on a grappler or not, then one needs to "sink" and "connect", to make it work, at least in the lineage of Chow Gar that I have practiced.

[Hardwork108]

actually, I was talking in that case about Doo Wai, but I think we have already established that our spartan friend "hardwork" is a head case as well

Yes, all traditionalists are "head cases", yet the MMA knuckleheads, including your 'good' clueless self, who post, out of place, in a TCMA forum, are all "normal"....:rolleyes:

[Dragonzbane76]

There is a saying from where I come from, "for insane people, every day is a 'fine' day".....
yes it is :)

there is a saying from where i'm from, "don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's raining."

[Hardwork108]

HW-when you pm'd me, I was speaking with you on Jook Lum, not Chow Gar-might be why you noticed a difference..?
I was not referring to questions that I asked you through PM.




our system does not have a sprawl either. It is an adaptation to grappling attacks, which were not an issue when these systems were developed,

I disagree. The grappling arts were around in China, even before the development of the TCMAs as we know them. I is illogical to think that the Masters who developed and evolved the hundredds of styles and substyles, somehow "forgot" that they could be thrown, taken down, or the fight could go to the ground.


but certainly are an issue now. Sure, wrestling existed, but the Hakka arts were developed for very specific purposes.
The Hakka arts purpose was the same as any MA, and that is for the exponent to survive a given fight and go home alive.


when you speak of not sprawling, and being able to root, do yourself a favor. Find a friend who has a few months of High School wrestling, and ask him to shoot-for real.
The problem is you can Shoot for real, in a sparring scenario, but a real Chow Gar response, is not going to work in a sparring context.

And that is where a lot of MA-ists who are over immersed in sports fighting, go wrong.



There was a video on youtube, forgot who did it, I think it was that MMA guy who does the funny, and truthfull vids in the bar (someone help me out here)
ok, anyway, he shows exactly why most downward strikes will not work from this situation, one of them being that the elbow itself is not really hitting, but the upper arm/tricep, and there is no way to maintain any type of structure to pull it off with any negligable power.
Sure, yo can argue,"What does a MMA meathead know about Hakka Kuen?"
However, what do you know about the shoot, and how to sprawl?
It is obvious that you have never been on the recieving end of a decent (not even a great) shoot.

What I find interesting is that now we have kung fu practitioners learning about "bad" kung fu techniques from the teachings of wrestlers on YouTube.....

Secondly, I have had a pretty decent wrestler as a kung fu brother in the past. Sifu used to use him to test us.;)



I have. A decent wrestler (I had the opportunity to be skooled by a high level collegiate/greco-roman wrestler..lucky me..) will shoot and slam you so fast to the ground, it'll take your lights out.
A lame wrestler will be just as successful, but not as explosive-you will still go down. With only a little instruction, anyone with a degree of coordination can learn a decent shoot and be **** effective with it-which is why it is so dangerous. It's very, very common.

I see your point. However, my point was that you and I have been schooled in different lineages of Chow Gar, meaning that we have different approaches when it comes to certain fight situations, including against wrestlers. That is all. I am happy with mine, and if you are happy with yours, and sprawling happens to be your only solution when faced with wrestler, then that is fine too, hence we should both be happy.

[Hardwork108]

yes it is :)

there is a saying from where i'm from, "don't pi$$ down my back and tell me it's raining."

They probably do the "number 2" on your head, instead, and tell you that they are giving you a hat.....LOL!

[Kansuke]

I think you may have misunderstood me. My reference to sinking was to make the Gao Choi work in the way it is meant to work. So, when one decides to use this strike against an available target, independent of the fact wether the available target happens to be on a grappler or not, then one needs to "sink" and "connect", to make it work, at least in the lineage of Chow Gar that I have practiced.

Which, of course, completely ignores what he was trying to tell you...

[Reyth]

I have had a pretty decent wrestler as a kung fu brother in the past. Sifu used to use him to test us.;)

You know it occurs to me that someone selling a program to "stop any shoot cold" with various techniques to do this could make ALOT of money selling this info on DVD. With the MMA craze, there is a large market for this sort of information. :D

[TenTigers]

HW-you cannot have a sensible discussion if you are going to respond to a "quote" without correct reference and context. Look at your response:

"I disagree. The grappling arts were around in China, even before the development of the TCMAs as we know them. I is illogical to think that the Masters who developed and evolved the hundredds of styles and substyles, somehow "forgot" that they could be thrown, taken down, or the fight could go to the ground"

Note how you completely left out where I had said that they were aware of wrestling, but developed their art for a very specific purpose.






HW-our system does not have a sprawl either. It is an adaptation to grappling attacks, which were not an issue when these systems were developed, but certainly are an issue now. Sure, wrestling existed, but the Hakka arts were developed for very specific purposes.

If you cannot carry on a logical conversation, then you have no reason to be here.


unless you are Bawang, Uki, or Taai Gihk Yan (who can actually carry on a logical conversation, just not with Earthlings) or myself.

[Kansuke]

The problem is you can Shoot for real, in a sparring scenario, but a real Chow Gar response, is not going to work in a sparring context.



Not this again... :rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

thanks for "outing" me :rolleyes:

you've made this point several times before, as if there was a mutual interdependency; meaning that only if I would be willing to reveal if Dave did have multiple accounts, can I be considered trustworthy enough to tell the truth if he didn't;

but you see, your "logic" is flawed: as a friend of Dave's, if he were posting under multiple accounts, it's true that, as his friend, I would probably not say anything; however, if he were posting under multiple accounts and I knew he was, it doesn't mean I would have to support that fiction by untruthfully claiming he wasn't - in fact, if he were posting under multiple accounts and I knew he was, my response would probably be to say nothing on the issue - so while I wouldn't rat him out, at the same time I would feel no obligation to propagate the fiction by claiming he wasn't multiple posting; now, if you think that strange, what can I say - friendship by definition presumes irrational bias towards another person - maybe you understand this, maybe you don't; whatever;


What if your friend, askes you, his friend, for a special favor of lying for him? I am asking because, these things happen here in the forums.;)

[Hardwork108]

HW-you cannot have a sensible discussion if you are going to respond to a "quote" without correct reference and context. Look at your response:

"I disagree. The grappling arts were around in China, even before the development of the TCMAs as we know them. I is illogical to think that the Masters who developed and evolved the hundredds of styles and substyles, somehow "forgot" that they could be thrown, taken down, or the fight could go to the ground"

Note how you completely left out where I had said that they were aware of wrestling, but developed their art for a very specific purpose.
I read and understood your post very well, but a lot of "TCMA-ists", assume that if their given art does not teach them to protect themselves from a wrestler, then those arts for some mysterious reasons left out, or did not develop techniques that would protect them against grapplers.

I am saying that this logic is flawed, wether you acknowledge that there were wrestling arts in China, before and DURING the development of kung fu, or not.








If you cannot carry on a logical conversation, then you have no reason to be here.
That comment would be more validated if it was directed at posters such as "bawang", "Kansuke", Lkfmdc (and his, "I have just read Sun Tzu's "Art of War", tactics), Knifefighter, and few other, "lost in the (MMA) woods" clueless posters here.;)



unless you are Bawang, Uki, or Taai Gihk Yan (who can actually carry on a logical conversation, just not with Earthlings) or myself.

Initially, I thought that I may have had more in common with you, speaking MA-wise, but I guess, I was wrong......

[taai gihk yahn]

What if your friend, askes you, his friend, for a special favor of lying for him? I am asking because, these things happen here in the forums.;)

simple - while I wouldn't rat him out, I wouldn't get involved posting about a situation where someone was posting under multiple accounts, because that's a bannable offense and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, no matter who they were; I would basically be like, "dude, do whatever you want, but don't get me involved, because the less I know the better; although you may want to not do that, because you will probably get caught and then you will get banned";

again, if you do not believe me, this is ok - I am not trying to change your mind about anything;

[taai gihk yahn]

Initially, I thought that I may have had more in common with you, speaking MA-wise, but I guess, I was wrong......
you are only just now realizing this?


Taai Gihk Yan (who can actually carry on a logical conversation, just not with Earthlings)
I happen to be very popular with the Go'Naddians of Alpha Centauri...

[Kansuke]

Initially, I thought that I may have had more in common with you, speaking MA-wise, but I guess, I was wrong......

I guess you're still stuck at 'everyone hates you.'

[Hardwork108]

you are only just now realizing this?
Well, one hopes that the methodolgies that one studies, are not that rare, but they seem to be, and probably, and apparently for a good reason.......



I happen to be very popular with the Go'Naddians of Alpha Centauri...

May be you can use your connections with them to convince them to accept Dave Ross, as an honorary citizen of their planet.

Just think, a new logo, "Alpha Centauri San Duh!", subheaded by "Self Defense Academy for Alien Knuckleheads"!:D

[TenTigers]

I really had no idea Chow Gar had sun-da in its practices. (Jook Lum is reputed to do this practice.)
And yet, here we have another practioner who experiences Jow Faw Yup Moor...

[taai gihk yahn]

Well, one hopes that the methodolgies that one studies, are not that rare, but they seem to be, and probably, and apparently for a good reason.......

it's not exactly what I meant, but never mind;



May be you can use your connections with them to convince them to accept Dave Ross, as an honorary citizen of their planet.

Just think, a new logo, "Alpha Centauri San Duh!", subheaded by "Self Defense Academy for Alien Knuckleheads"!:D

if you want to insult Dave, by all means, go ahead; but I would appreciate your not using my posts as a launch platform in order to do so;

[David Jamieson]

it's not exactly what I meant, but never mind;




if you want to insult Dave, by all means, go ahead; but I would appreciate your not using my posts as a launch platform in order to do so;

are you by chance practicing raising your tolerance for idiots?

very zen of you.

I went dark side a while back, I'll find balance eventually I guess. :p

[Kansuke]

are you by chance practicing raising your tolerance for idiots?


Don't beg.

[Hardwork108]

I went dark side a while back...... :p

I believe that most of us have noticed, however, with the correct medication, your mind may wake up again, someday...:D

[Hardwork108]

are you by chance practicing raising your tolerance for idiots?

Why shouldn't he, people like you and Kansuke, are humans, too. So, give the man and his kind heart, a break, will you!

[Hardwork108]

it's not exactly what I meant, but never mind;
Don't tell me that you are aware of the methodologies I have practiced in my Chow Gar...





if you want to insult Dave, by all means, go ahead; but I would appreciate your not using my posts as a launch platform in order to do so;

That is it, take the fun away from it all!!!:mad: