This thread is way too good to be kept on the internal martial arts forum...

[MysteriousPower]

Thank God, and Al Gore, for the internet to expose ridiculousness. I found this in the internal martial arts forum. I feel bad for kung fu every time I see a seminar like this.




#1
Today, 01:30 PM

Dale Dugas
My door is always open

Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 1,388

Jiulong Baguazhang Seminar in Boston
Magnetic Body Skills

Internal Skills of Jiulong Baguazhang




Magnetic Body: A Li Family Neigong Art

A Seminar With John P. Painter, PhD

Legends tell of an amazing martial ability that allowed an internal
martial art master to control the movements of his enemy with the
lightest of touch and in come cases without touching him at all. These
legends that seem like magic are in fact true. The secret however is not
magic, but a subtle manipulation of an individual's nervous system by
the master. Dr. John Painter of the Li family Daoqiquan lineage was
taught these amazing skills as a boy by Grand Master Li, Long-dao. He is
presenting this amazing art in a workshop entitled Magnetic Body Skills.
Come learn the truth behind the legend and discover that with just a
small amount of practice you to can use your Magnetic Body Skills on
others. This is an ideal skill for anyone in any style of martial art
and also for body-workers who want to go more deeply into their ability
to "touch" the client.

Date: Friday, December 17, 2010
Time: 7-10 P.M.
Location: Boston Ultimate Fitness
33 Harrison Ave. 7th Floor
Boston, MA 02111

Cost: $65.00
Beginners Welcome!

Please join us for this exciting event!

Also, on Saturday and Sunday, December 18 and 19th, we will begin our
examination of using Yi Xin Gong material of Jiulong Baguazhang with walking and moving.
Beginners are welcome, but you must attend Saturday's session to take part in Sunday's training.

For more information visit http://www.bostonbaguazhang.com or call 617-595-8097 or email info@bostonbaguazhang.com

[MysteriousPower]

I hope they post video of this amazing skill being used against resisting opponents.

[Violent Designs]

First Blood.

[MartialDev]

I can easily find videos of John Painter and make my own decisions.
Where can I find videos of MysteriousPower?

[Knifefighter]

Fools and their money are easily separated.

[goju]

I can easily find videos of John Painter and make my own decisions.
Where can I find videos of MysteriousPower?

If he showed videos of himself then he wouldnt be so mysterious . Duh

[MysteriousPower]

I can easily find videos of John Painter and make my own decisions.
Where can I find videos of MysteriousPower?

I can easily find videos of John Painter and his cohorts as well and none of them are ever of him fighting. The difference between him and I is that I don't pawn myself off as skilled at anything or try to steal peoples' money by teaching them bs. By his videos it's proven he had no skills against resisting opponents. My lack of videos means the same thing I guess. But, like I said, I am not making money or trying to build/maintain a reputation of being teh real dealz.

[Dale Dugas]

Both of the individuals are invited to come and see myself and my teacher.

I invite you both to the workshop.

My door is always open.

[Knifefighter]

Both of the individuals are invited to come and see myself and my teacher.

I invite you both to the workshop.

My door is always open.

1- Are you going to show full-contact demonstrations against fully resistant opponents of the same size? If so, can we record the demo?

2- Are you going to wave the charges for us?

[MysteriousPower]

Both of the individuals are invited to come and see myself and my teacher.

I invite you both to the workshop.

My door is always open.

If you cannot handle the playground banter than you can play elsewhere. I am not looking for a fight. I am just looking for one of you internal master-baters to put up a video of these magnetic skills being used against resisting opponents. Also kindly point out how these skills are different from...reactions gained through hard training. Is that not easier than fighting everyone that disagrees with you? Do not answer because putting up a single video is much easier.

[Dale Dugas]

1- Are you going to show full-contact demonstrations against fully resistant opponents of the same size? If so, can we record the demo?

2- Are you going to wave the charges for us?

I will demonstrate full contact against yourself as you and the other unknown poster seem to desire it.

You are invited free to come to Boston December 17th-19th.

My teacher will demonstrate, and I will show you apps against yourself.

Both of you are invited to attend free of charge.

[MysteriousPower]

Both of the individuals are invited to come and see myself and my teacher.

I invite you both to the workshop.

My door is always open.

How dare you raise your qi infested hand to me? You should be thanking me for the free advertising. For every 6 of us realists that reads my crap there are 2 knucklehead qi huggers who buys something from you.

Do I get a thanks? Do not worry. You are welcome.

[TenTigers]

and this is so very important to you because, why...?
I don't get you. You have no idea whatsoever what he is teaching, yet you find the need to butt in and spew your self-hatred, as if you are accomplishing something in doing this.
Dr. Painter and Dale obviously are very dedicated to their art, and feel they have something to share.
"The wise man talks because he has something to say.
The fool talks because he has to say something."
Dude...get a freakin life.

[MysteriousPower]

and this is so very important to you because, why...?
I don't get you. You have no idea whatsoever what he is teaching, yet you find the need to butt in and spew your self-hatred, as if you are accomplishing something in doing this.
Dr. Painter and Dale obviously are very dedicated to their art, and feel they have something to share.
"The wise man talks because he has something to say.
The fool talks because he has to say something."
Dude...get a freakin life.

The qi hugging ten tigers will be there. Do I get a cut, Dale?

Ten,
If you advertised a bs "mantis qi gong to make yourself impervious to hits and make you a real man in bed" seminar I would bring the hand of god d a m n on you too. I can tell though that though you want to believe in all this you do not really at your qi hugging core.

[TenTigers]

The qi hugging ten tigers will be there. Do I get a cut, Dale?

Ten,
If you advertised a bs "mantis qi gong to make yourself impervious to hits and make you a real man in bed" seminar I would bring the hand of god**** on you too. I can tell though that though you want to believe in all this you do not really at your qi hugging core.
yeah, you have one point there. I am what I like to refer to as a "hopefull skeptic."
I want to believe, but I need to see, and feel it firsthand.
That is why the only things I speak of are things that I have seen and felt.
BUT, I also don't immediately discount it. I know I have no knowledge, firsthand or otherwise on this subject, so I don't say anything.
You, on the other hand have no knowledge on this subject, yet you choose to speak.
You see, the difference is, I will actually go out and experience things firsthand, before saying anything, positive or negative.

BTW-if I ever do a seminar on making you a real man in bed...I really would not want you to participate. No offense, but I really don't swing that way.
("Not that there's anything wrong with it..."):p

[TenTigers]

I'm still trying to figure out what the **** in "god****" is.....:confused:

[TenTigers]

hmmm..
godsmack? well that shouldn't be censored..
god sh**? god Fu**? nope, doesn't make sense...
god dam n? I don't see how that makes sense either...
must be some new fangled teenage slang...
Man, I don't understand what you're saying,
on any level.

[YouKnowWho]

In the other forum, I have seen people talk about how great certain teachers are. In this forum, I have seen people talk about how bad certain teachers are. Do we have different kind of members in this forum who only enjoys to put others down? What happen to the traditional Wude here? :confused:

One more friend is not too many but one more enemy may be all you need. I hate to see one day someone knocks on you door, and requests his teacher reputation back when you are 80 years old. You may be bad ass today and enjoy to put down others, but you will be old someday. If you are kind to others, others will be kind to you too.

[TenTigers]

In the other forum, I have seen people talk about how great certain teachers are. In this forum, I have seen people talk about how bad certain teachers are. Do we have different kind of members in this forum who only enjoys to put others down? What happen to the traditional Wude here? :confused:



good point, and it certainly had to be said.
The problem with these forums is that people post under pseudonyms, giving them the cover and protection of anonyminity, allowing them to do such things.

[Scott R. Brown]

good point, and it certainly had to be said.
The problem with these forums is that people post under pseudonyms, giving them the cover and protection of anonyminity, allowing them to do such things.

YEAH!!! You'll never figure out who I REALLY am!:eek::p

[Scott R. Brown]

And in all fairness Dale......crossing hands with you is like crossing hands with Gargantuan!:eek::p

[Eric Olson]

I don't know why practitioners with perfectly legitimate skills perpetuate this pseudo-mystical non-sense (some of my past teachers included).

If John Painter really has these "magnetic body" skills then he shouldn't be wasting his time teaching seminars for $, he can directly pass go and collect $1 million dollars...details below:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

EO

P.S.

Dale, don't take my comments personally, you seem like a nice guy, but you teacher is claiming he can defy the laws of physics and biology...which is ridiculous.

[goju]

I don't know why practitioners with perfectly legitimate skills perpetuate this pseudo-mystical non-sense (some of my past teachers included).

If John Painter really has these "magnetic body" skills then he shouldn't be wasting his time teaching seminars for $, he can directly pass go and collect $1 million dollars...details below:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

EO

P.S.

Dale, don't take my comments personally, you seem like a nice guy, but you teacher is claiming he can defy the laws of physics and biology...which is ridiculous.

To be fair randi refused to fly in a gentleman for study who claimed he survied entirely on some type of yoga thing called prawna. If he cant afford so much as a plane ticket i fail to see how he has a mill sitting around to give out

[YouKnowWho]

good point, and it certainly had to be said.
The problem with these forums is that people post under pseudonyms, giving them the cover and protection of anonyminity, allowing them to do such things.
It's very common for a CMA teacher to send his students to beat up somone who had bad mouthed him. I just want to point this out that it's not worthy to create unnecessary enemy just for the fun of internet discussion.

I had met John Painter in person. Not only he is a nice guy, I believe his CMA skill is good too.

[Eric Olson]

To be fair randi refused to fly in a gentleman for study who claimed he survied entirely on some type of yoga thing called prawna. If he cant afford so much as a plane ticket i fail to see how he has a mill sitting around to give out

So he's supposed to fly every two-bit huckster around the world to test their claims?
If he did that, the million would be gone quick enough.

EO

[TenTigers]

I would guess it depends on the extent of the light to no touch they are referring to. I have seen and felt a Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu Master lead me by what seemed to be a barely percievable touch, where I couldn't let go. He didn't mystify it, he merely stated that after thirty years of devoting his life to his training, certain skills, sensitivity,etc. are possible. I don't know if this is related to Dr. Painter's skill, or not. I'm simply relating an experience.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Mr Dugas,

It is very nice of you to extend such an invitation. I believe that wisdom is something that should be paid for. Still, be sure to have a really good time. If you should happen to go into Cenobite mode, it is so totally okay.

mickey

[goju]

So he's supposed to fly every two-bit huckster around the world to test their claims?
If he did that, the million would be gone quick enough.

EO

Why not he apparently has millions laying around and has the supposed funds to do research yet he cant afford a plane ticket?

The man is a big of a fraud as the people he bickers with on the news:rolleyes:
http://www.rense.com/general50/james.htm

[Knifefighter]

I would guess it depends on the extent of the light to no touch they are referring to. I have seen and felt a Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu Master lead me by what seemed to be a barely percievable touch, where I couldn't let go. He didn't mystify it, he merely stated that after thirty years of devoting his life to his training, certain skills, sensitivity,etc. are possible. I don't know if this is related to Dr. Painter's skill, or not. I'm simply relating an experience.

Yeah, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

[Knifefighter]

I don't know why practitioners with perfectly legitimate skills perpetuate this pseudo-mystical non-sense (some of my past teachers included).

If John Painter really has these "magnetic body" skills then he shouldn't be wasting his time teaching seminars for $, he can directly pass go and collect $1 million dollars...details below:

Actually, if you really could demonstrate paranormal skills like this, you could make much more than a measly $1 million. You'd have governments and business from all over the world trying to outbid each other to learn your secrets.

Anyone who believes in no-touch nonsense is as deluded as the students of the guy in the clip above.

[EarthDragon]

goju

To be fair randi refused to fly in a gentleman for study who claimed he survied entirely on some type of yoga thing called prawna.

PRANA is the sanskrit word for Chi, qi...................

[teetsao]

i think this guy could pass the test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fc0bI5CPuk

however i am sure randi would have soome excuses not to pay him. just like i am sure he would say my friends and i who break concrete and coconuts, that it is all physics,yet he would not be able to recreate it withoout the use of some type of object such as a hammer, not that i have mystical qi abilities before someone mistakes what i said and jumps on me.
also do oyu remmeber "jon chang"??? alot of is abilities were measured with scientific instruments,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

not sure i go for everything, but then again i have seen some unbeleiveable stuff from my teachers,so who knows. we as humans cannot explain everythhing in the universe,though we would like to think so. we seem to tink we have elevated ourselves to the point where everything can be explained in science,yet we are very ,very young in america,whereas the rest of the world is ancient,so who knows what is out there in some corner of the world. we all contain energy and some can manipulate it more than others.

[Knifefighter]

i think this guy could pass the test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fc0bI5CPuk

however i am sure randi would have soome excuses not to pay him. just like i am sure he would say my friends and i who break concrete and coconuts, that it is all physics,yet he would not be able to recreate it withoout the use of some type of object such as a hammer, not that i have mystical qi abilities before someone mistakes what i said and jumps on me.
also do oyu remmeber "jon chang"??? alot of is abilities were measured with scientific instruments,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

not sure i go for everything, but then again i have seen some unbeleiveable stuff from my teachers,so who knows. we as humans cannot explain everythhing in the universe,though we would like to think so. we seem to tink we have elevated ourselves to the point where everything can be explained in science,yet we are very ,very young in america,whereas the rest of the world is ancient,so who knows what is out there in some corner of the world. we all contain energy and some can manipulate it more than others.

LOL... my brother is a professional magician and he can do all that easily. Anyone who understands basic sleight of hand can see that he is a phony.

"Master Joe" would never be able to do the heat treatments if there was someone in the room who understood his sleight of hand. Same thing with making himself lighter.

Again, anyone who had these powers would be under contract to governments and business worldwide.

What this does prove, however, is how easy it is to dupe the TMA crowd.

[TenTigers]

Yeah, like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

LOL sheesh! no...um,
not like that....


(nice one, KF)

[Eric Olson]

i think this guy could pass the test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fc0bI5CPuk

I love how they try to lend it an air of scientific credibility by including a patient that is an MD and the infrared camera. But let's see, doctors can be fooled just as easily as anyone else and all the infrared camera showed was that he was using friction to heat up his palms.

The paper walking thing had to do with the fact that he's a little asian guy and
he displaced his weight across two feet and walked slowly. The host was bigger, stepped with one foot and stepped quickly onto the paper (generating more force)

No one can change how much they weigh by thinking it so, but they can change how that weight is distributed and whether they add force to their steps by stepping quickly.

It's all within the laws of physics.



not sure i go for everything, but then again i have seen some unbeleiveable stuff from my teachers,so who knows. we as humans cannot explain everythhing in the universe,though we would like to think so. we seem to tink we have elevated ourselves to the point where everything can be explained in science,yet we are very ,very young in america,whereas the rest of the world is ancient,so who knows what is out there in some corner of the world. we all contain energy and some can manipulate it more than others.

I agree with you that we should not shut the door on Eastern practices. It's an "experiment' that's been running for thousands of years and there's a lot of empirical data there even if the theories about why things work (or don't) needs to be reconciled with modern knowledge.

I've also experienced some pretty amazing skill on the part of my taiji teacher that seems to defy human abilities and would need some kind of supernatural explanation. But mostly I think it boils down to a subtle understanding of the human body. None of it requires a belief in the paranormal.

Things like levitation, telekinesis, mind-reading, etc. etc. are bogus. We can reject them outright because they blatantly conflict with scientific knowledge. This is a deep topic and I could go on forever...but I'll spare everyone by ending here.

EO

[Knifefighter]

The paper walking thing had to do with the fact that he's a little asian guy and
he displaced his weight across two feet and walked slowly. The host was bigger, stepped with one foot and stepped quickly onto the paper (generating more force)

More than likely they were also "his" paper platforms and I can pretty much guarantee they were not structurally the same.

There is a reason these guys can't do the same things when outside people supply the equipment.

[Knifefighter]

... all the infrared camera showed was that he was using friction to heat up his palms.

There was more to it than that, and that's the reason he needed the towel to be rolled up. Can't do the trick without the rolled up towel.

[Eric Olson]

There was more to it than that, and that's the reason he needed the towel to be rolled up. Can't do the trick without the rolled up towel.

Maybe he was adding two chemicals together to produce an exothermic reaction (eg like those heating pads that go into gloves or ski boots).

Anyway you slice there's a NATURAL explanation for what he was doing.

EO

[Knifefighter]

Maybe he was adding two chemicals together to produce an exothermic reaction (eg like those heating pads that go into gloves or ski boots).

Anyway you slice there's a NATURAL explanation for what he was doing.

EO

Of course there is and that's why he can't do it without the towels. Of course he will tell you that he needs the towels to "absorb" some of the energy, otherwise the patient might get burned (neglecting the fact that the person already has clothes covering the area), or that he needs the "special" towels to "disperse" the energy.

[MysteriousPower]

They might as well call this a chi sau seminar or even better a push hands seminar. Do away with the mystical description and call it what it is. Sticky hands galore!

Tentigers,
Why do you pretend to be so naive? You have not experienced it so you do not know what it is and therefore cannot judge? It is obviously a push hands seminar. If you pretended to be this dumb in grade school you would still be there. Luckily in the Kung fu world they allow for the dumbness. The dumber one is the more qi he is building, the more skilled he is, and the need to show teh realz in a video is completely thrown out.

Kung fu is just like The Matrix. You are all asleep and being probed in the anus by the machines. You want to believe so badly that you cannot feel the pain and suffering your anus is feeling.

In other words John Painter, whoever, is trying to f*ck you out of cash that you could have:
1. Given to me to spend on strippers
2. Thrown off a bridge
3. Donated to some bogus Haitian recovery fund.

Anyone who spends money on this deserves the anal probing machines. You say he and Dale are dedicated practitioners trying to pass on info. Moteley Crue was dedicated to heroine. Just because they are dedicated does not mean they have anything worthy to pass on.

Tentigers,
Go to the seminar. Record some of it. Learn it. And then apply it against someone who is really trying to hit you. If you are not willing to do any of that than you are as bad as us. Based on your argument you cannot defend this seminar because you have not "felt" it. So either go or stfu. You are too much of a wuss to admit the big gorilla in the room. You are one of those people that would not tell Johnny he sucks at gym because he is too fat. You would tell him he needs to go to a school with other fat people around and then he will do fine in gym. Mr. Politically Correct would never diss anything.

[teetsao]

knifefighter; if you look at 4:32 of the video and then on, the camera is looking at and measureing his hand and not just the paper towel. you can see the center of his hand white in the flir.
as i said before i am sure some things are fake, but i am convinced this is not. now why in the wrld would the gov. or anyone else want to talk to him?? they might want to do away with him so people still have to go to western drs. and get pills that dont work. as the patient said in the video,western medecine did not help hime, but this man did. so that is all that matters. i ave witnessed light body skill in person. you still weight the same on the scale but it is manipulating the body.
please demo the "trick" to this in a video for us to see,but it needs to look legit,dont make it so everyone knows whats up.

[Knifefighter]

knifefighter; if you look at 4:32 of the video and then on, the camera is looking at and measureing his hand and not just the paper towel. you can see the center of his hand white in the flir.
as i said before i am sure some things are fake, but i am convinced this is not. now why in the wrld would the gov. or anyone else want to talk to him?? they might want to do away with him so people still have to go to western drs. and get pills that dont work. as the patient said in the video,western medecine did not help hime, but this man did. so that is all that matters. i ave witnessed light body skill in person. you still weight the same on the scale but it is manipulating the body.
please demo the "trick" to this in a video for us to see,but it needs to look legit,dont make it so everyone knows whats up.

Now I understand why you were fooled by the Mook Jong clip.

[Drake]

I ain't one to say this is true or not. It's one of those things where I'd really have to be there to say yay or nay.

If I made an assumption based off of a youtube video without any additional research, I'd be no better than HW108. :D

[teetsao]

wooden dummy????

[MartialDev]

I can easily find videos of John Painter and his cohorts as well and none of them are ever of him fighting. The difference between him and I is that I don't pawn myself off as skilled at anything or try to steal peoples' money by teaching them bs.

You're flattering yourself. The difference between him and you is that he demonstrates some basis for his claims, however incomplete it may be on YouTube, whereas you demonstrate nothing at all. Yet somehow you expect to be taken seriously, more seriously than he is.

Well I haven't seen the Power, but I can see the Mystery.



I don't know why practitioners with perfectly legitimate skills perpetuate this pseudo-mystical non-sense (some of my past teachers included).

If John Painter really has these "magnetic body" skills then he shouldn't be wasting his time teaching seminars for $, he can directly pass go and collect $1 million dollars...details below:

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html



The million dollar challenge is a fraud (http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/win-jref-million-dollar-challenge/) perpetuated by and for morons who mistake themselves for the intellectual elite.


"Master Joe" would never be able to do the heat treatments if there was someone in the room who understood his sleight of hand. Same thing with making himself lighter.

Again, anyone who had these powers would be under contract to governments and business worldwide.

What this does prove, however, is how easy it is to dupe the TMA crowd.

Among the people who have actually met Zhou, there are many willing to defend him (http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/qigong-demonstration-zhou-ting-jue/#comments).

I would never wish for anyone on this forum to get their smug ass kicked around the room. That is against wude. All I'm saying is, if it happens, please get the whole thing on video. I want to hear that guy explaining how he cannot be beaten "by some qi hugger", right before he gets thrashed "by some qi hugger". That makes for a more entertaining clip. :D

[Eric Olson]

The million dollar challenge is a fraud (http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/win-jref-million-dollar-challenge/) perpetuated by and for morons who mistake themselves for the intellectual elite.

Not sure what your link is meant to show because the writing is non-sensical.

According to wikipedia 1000 people have taken the Randi challenge, all agreed to the conditions of the test beforehand and NONE have passed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randi_challenge




Among the people who have actually met Zhou, there are many willing to defend him (http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/qigong-demonstration-zhou-ting-jue/#comments).

I would never wish for anyone on this forum to get their smug ass kicked around the room. That is against wude. All I'm saying is, if it happens, please get the whole thing on video. I want to hear that guy explaining how he cannot be beaten "by some qi hugger", right before he gets thrashed "by some qi hugger". That makes for a more entertaining clip. :D

Maybe he does have martial skill, but WTF does that have to do with supernatural powers? Does one necessitate the other? No.

EO

[MysteriousPower]

If you were paying attention to anything else besides how cool you felt while posstong you would have noticed that I was not talking about fighting. I asked that either John or Dale DEMONSTRATE magical magnetic skills on a real resisting opponent in a way that does not look like kickboxing. If I wanted to see a kickboxing match I would watch one. They are advertising mystical magnetic powers and I want to know if they can "subtely manipulate the nervous system" of someone trying to hit them for real. They should both have some gear on for safety unless helmets block qi movement.

They are the ones claiming to be able to manipulate peoples' nervous systems...and you are questioning me? I think your head is screwed on the wrong way. Did you know that I can cure cancer? I am holding a NON-REFUNDABLE seminar on it. You cannot have or have had cancer. The seminar is to teach you to do the healing yourself. I used to be able to cure cancer but I used up all my 'unified' energy so I never have to prove my claims. My name is Ron Sainter and my business partner is named Gale Gugas. Sound familiar.

You said that JP has some vids up which make his views more legit than mine though none of them are sparring. Ron Jeremy had more vids of himself demonstrating on compliant people than JP which means you must love him.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, does this mean that Dale (KF ) or Mysterious power are going to visit Dale and Sifu Painter ??

[Dale Dugas]

I have invited both people to come visit for free.

I think they will bray loudly and make excuses rather than show up and be schooled.

[David Jamieson]

It is a dull mind that cannot determine anything but the extremes of a matter.

If structure is broken and collapse is directed, this is leading.
There are myriad other forms as well.

It's not about shooting invisible rays out your ass. LOL

I wonder which of these folks thinks that wwe wrestling is any sort of real beyond the entertaining aspect?

[taai gihk yahn]

Not sure what your link is meant to show because the writing is non-sensical.
thank God - for a moment I thought it was just me...


So, does this mean that Dale (KF ) or Mysterious power are going to visit Dale and Sifu Painter ??
pot stirrer...

[sanjuro_ronin]

thank God - for a moment I thought it was just me...


pot stirrer...

Hey, people call people out, those that are called out accept the invitation.
Where I came from the rest is up to the "callers", right?

[MysteriousPower]

Hey, people call people out, those that are called out accept the invitation.
Where I came from the rest is up to the "callers", right?


I called on Dale to post video of the seminar showing him using magnetic powers on resisting opponents. By your logic, and since I called on him first, he should be doing so.

It is much easier to post a video of supposed abilities than it is try to beat up nay sayers. We live in a civilized world. I guess this is why people are afraid of guns because they believe minor altercations will result in death and injury. This is totally unfounded and untrue and un-American. People who have to or want to stomp on others because they disagree help foster this view of guns. So really we are just talking about gun control?


But seriously though. Is it not easier for DD to put up a vid instead of telling everyone who ****es him off that his doors are always open. He is like a big child...who lets other smaller children punch him...and then he claims to have qi gong powers. I should stop now before I become totally retarded and Dale tries to zap me through the internet with his qi.

On a more serious note this is nothing personal against Dale Dugas or John Painter. Actually I find it appalling that John Painter is given any credibility at all with the advent of the ufc and what not. Other than that this is just a personal crusade against bullsh!t.

Sanjuro,
I find it interesting that you talk the fighting game, talk about how sparring is important, and are ready and willing to laugh at random Chinese tards doing crappy push hand demos on youtube. I know because I remember some of your comments on my other equally good threads. But when I talk about qi huggers that you consider friends you get defensive. I respect you and your views so please do not take this the wrong way. It just seems like you make fun of this stuff in general and not when your pals are involved. If you and Knifefighter had a baby together it would be the Ultimate Fighter. If Dale Dugas and John Painter had a baby together...it would be a great business marketer.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro,
I find it interesting that you talk the fighting game, talk about how sparring is important, and are ready and willing to laugh at random Chinese tards doing crappy push hand demos on youtube. I know because I remember some of your comments on my other equally good threads. But when I talk about qi huggers that you consider friends you get defensive. I respect you and your views so please do not take this the wrong way. It just seems like you make fun of this stuff in general and not when your pals are involved. If you and Knifefighter had a baby together it would be the Ultimate Fighter. If Dale Dugas and John Painter had a baby together...it would be a great business marketer.

Actually, I don't get defensive at all since it is NOT directed towards me.
All I do and did here, is to point out that YOU made it look like that you were doubting Dale and His Sifus "claims", which amounts to calling someone out.
Dale's reply was that his door is open and offered a free invitation for you and Dale to come see for yourselves.
As such, I am NOW curious to see IF you are going to do just that. since YOU were the one the brought it up in the first place.
I know you wanted to see a clip of this "power", but Dale has offered you something MORE, a personal friendly demo.
Now, since we ALL know that videos can be faked and prove very little, what is better than the doubter ( you) see first hand if his doubts are valid?

[taai gihk yahn]

Actually, I don't get defensive at all since it is NOT directed towards me.
All I do and did here, is to point out that YOU made it look like that you were doubting Dale and His Sifus "claims", which amounts to calling someone out.
Dale's reply was that his door is open and offered a free invitation for you and Dale to come see for yourselves.
As such, I am NOW curious to see IF you are going to do just that. since YOU were the one the brought it up in the first place.
I know you wanted to see a clip of this "power", but Dale has offered you something MORE, a personal friendly demo.
Now, since we ALL know that videos can be faked and prove very little, what is better than the doubter ( you) see first hand if his doubts are valid?
checkmate...

[MysteriousPower]

Actually, I don't get defensive at all since it is NOT directed towards me.
All I do and did here, is to point out that YOU made it look like that you were doubting Dale and His Sifus "claims", which amounts to calling someone out.
Dale's reply was that his door is open and offered a free invitation for you and Dale to come see for yourselves.
As such, I am NOW curious to see IF you are going to do just that. since YOU were the one the brought it up in the first place.
I know you wanted to see a clip of this "power", but Dale has offered you something MORE, a personal friendly demo.
Now, since we ALL know that videos can be faked and prove very little, what is better than the doubter ( you) see first hand if his doubts are valid?

Do not try to turn this around on me. I am not making any money on this and am not making any claims to skills, or powers, or anything. The ones selling this product are in question since they are selling it. I am simply being a good consumer and helping others to do the same. By questioning these claims I am helping people make educated decisions.

[Dale Dugas]

MP,

You called me and my teacher into question.

I invited you to come meet him and myself and see FIRSTHAND that you are wrong and can be proven wrong.

That you continue to insult the both of us shows everyone here your true agenda. Hate mongering against people who actually can represent.

[lkfmdc]

This forum used to be fun, lately it has become a huge drag.......

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This forum used to be fun, lately it has become a huge drag.......

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq124/jonhapimp/internet-is-serious-business.jpg

[EarthDragon]

mysterious power and knifefighter talk more ****e about other peoples skill because they have none of thier own. isnt KF the short fat guy named Dale?

I can guarente you they will NOT go to the seminar, no chance in h*ll. but they WILL make up excuses why they cant go, we have heard this lame crap for years. and you 2 will not surely will not be the excetiption to the rule.

They would much rather simply sit on the computer from the safey of thier own homes and put others down. its much easier for people of thier station in life to feel good about themselves.

kinda funny mysertious power's screen name is debunking mysterious power and the other guy needs a knife to win a fight. LOl just sayin

[Dragonzbane76]

http://oi31.tinypic.com/ou2umo.jpg

[MysteriousPower]

MP,

You called me and my teacher into question.

I invited you to come meet him and myself and see FIRSTHAND that you are wrong and can be proven wrong.

That you continue to insult the both of us shows everyone here your true agenda. Hate mongering against people who actually can represent.

Hate mongering? This is what I hate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU

I hate when people like this are able to dupe so many people into thinking they are skilled. Maybe people want to be duped and the pressure should be put on them.

I hate when people speak highly of the above push hands training and then bash the sparring shown below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAxfXCl_tfQ


All I am saying is that the seminar in question will have more of the former training.

[MysteriousPower]

mysterious power and knifefighter talk more ****e about other peoples skill because they have none of thier own. isnt KF the short fat guy named Dale?

I can guarente you they will NOT go to the seminar, no chance in h*ll. but they WILL make up excuses why they cant go, we have heard this lame crap for years. and you 2 will not surely will not be the excetiption to the rule.

They would much rather simply sit on the computer from the safey of thier own homes and put others down. its much easier for people of thier station in life to feel good about themselves.

kinda funny mysertious power's screen name is debunking mysterious power and the other guy needs a knife to win a fight. LOl just sayin

I know you. You are the dude who claimed that you trained a guy who WON ufc 6 and 7. I read your original post on the subject and you did make these claims. The second they were brought into question and debunked you backpedaled like a politician caught in a lie. You have no credibility here. Knifefighter and Frost were right about your original post. You exaggerated your claims.

[TenTigers]

Mystery-I especially like the way you volunteer ME to go to the seminar, rather than yourself, who is doing all the sh*t talking. Nice attempt, but honestly you give yourself way too much credit. (I'm wondering if you might actually be my ex under a pseudonym..?)
You also seem to think that people here take you seriously. I honestly can't imagine how you can come to that conclusion.
Newsflash, brilliance. Nobody, except maybe KF thinks you have anything of value here, except that you are mildly entertaining.
Ok, so poor little you had a bad experience at a previous school, and now you're bitter.
So you are on your little personal crusade to enlighten all TCMA folks to your way of thinking.
When people dissagree with you, you turn to stamping your little feet and name calling, misquoting, and trying to turn it around with "I know you are, but what am I?" type of rhetoric. (Man, you really are like her, you two should meet)
Dude, let it go. Move on with your life.
I do agree with a few things that you say however.
I am also against that feel good, everybody wins at T-Ball mentality, Confidense without competence crap.
(I also don't think they should have plus sized models on the runway modeling lingerie.)
I am against gun control. Why? Because I hunt and shoot, and I also understand that outlawing guns only disarms citizens.
I hope you are pro-choice as well.
(you really shouldn't breed...)

[David Jamieson]

seriously guys, just put these retards like MP,HW108,KF,Hendrik, kansuck, and the lot of throwbacks, *******s and d-bags on ignore.

they WILL go away.

If you keep engaging these POS trolls, they will keep coming here spewing their bile.

eff em, they are nothing.

pull them like weeds via the ignore switch and life will be good. :)

[TenTigers]

seriously guys, just put these retards like MP,HW108,KF,Hendrik, kansuck, and the lot of throwbacks, *******s and d-bags on ignore.

they WILL go away.

If you keep engaging these POS trolls, they will keep coming here spewing their bile.

eff em, they are nothing.

pull them like weeds via the ignore switch and life will be good. :)

It's funny, Hendrick, HW108, and even Mystery make some good contributions.(check out his post comparing the "push hands" to the geared sparring clips)
It's only when they start going off on their **** that they go off the deep end.
Here's an idea-let me be moderator. I will read their posts and just start hittinng the delete button when they start deviating and dribbling their nonesense.
TenTigers-Moderator Extraodinaire, Master of the Delete Key!

[TenTigers]

Hate mongering? This is what I hate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnUDkCQ0WU

I hate when people like this are able to dupe so many people into thinking they are skilled. Maybe people want to be duped and the pressure should be put on them.

I hate when people speak highly of the above push hands training and then bash the sparring shown below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAxfXCl_tfQ




See? problem solved!
courtesy of TT-Moderator Extraodinaire

[MysteriousPower]

Mystery-I especially like the way you volunteer ME to go to the seminar, rather than yourself, who is doing all the sh*t talking. Nice attempt, but honestly you give yourself way too much credit. (I'm wondering if you might actually be my ex under a pseudonym..?)
You also seem to think that people here take you seriously. I honestly can't imagine how you can come to that conclusion.
Newsflash, brilliance. Nobody, except maybe KF thinks you have anything of value here, except that you are mildly entertaining.
Ok, so poor little you had a bad experience at a previous school, and now you're bitter.
So you are on your little personal crusade to enlighten all TCMA folks to your way of thinking.
When people dissagree with you, you turn to stamping your little feet and name calling, misquoting, and trying to turn it around with "I know you are, but what am I?" type of rhetoric. (Man, you really are like her, you two should meet)
Dude, let it go. Move on with your life.
I do agree with a few things that you say however.
I am also against that feel good, everybody wins at T-Ball mentality, Confidense without competence crap.
(I also don't think they should have plus sized models on the runway modeling lingerie.)
I am against gun control. Why? Because I hunt and shoot, and I also understand that outlawing guns only disarms citizens.
I hope you are pro-choice as well.
(you really shouldn't breed...)

Knifefighter's comments are worth more than David Jameson's, earthdragon's, Dale dugas's, and yours combined.

[goju]

very few of challenges like this ever materialize into something so anyones wasting their time hoping it will happen

[Knifefighter]

"Legends tell of an amazing martial ability that allowed an internal
martial art master to control the movements of his enemy with the
lightest of touch and in come cases without touching him at all. These
legends that seem like magic are in fact true. The secret however is not
magic, but a subtle manipulation of an individual's nervous system by
the master."

Anyone who actually believes this crap deserves to lose their money from the fraudulent hucksters. You guys are right. It's not our business to save the gullible people from getting ripped off.

Carry on...

[TenTigers]

In my opinion, Knifefighter's comments are worth more than David Jameson's, earthdragon's, Dale dugas's, and yours combined.

Ta-Daaaaa!!!! Fixed once again, By TT -Moderator Extraordinaire!
No need to thank me, Ma'am. Just doing my job.

[David Jamieson]

Ta-Daaaaa!!!! Fixed once again, By TT -Moderator Extraordinaire!
No need to thank me, Ma'am. Just doing my job.

that's nambla for you. once they're in, they're in for life.

poor kids. :p

[mickey]

Mr Jamieson,

Your English is not quite correct.

It should be: Once they're in, they're out for life.


mickey

[TenTigers]

This conversation is deteriorating rapidly.....

[bawang]

this no touch qi control does sound fishy. whats the deal man

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lets make one thing clear, MP did nothing wrong in questioning what he read, far from that, it is the duty of every MA to question what sounds "fishy".
There is nothing wrong with that.
There was nothing wrong in questioning, just as there is nothing wrong in questioning the validity and effectiveness of chi sao, qigong, Qi in general, forms, the "too deadly" , etc, etc.
BUT if you are gonna question something and have no ulterior motives other than truth seeking, then when someone offers you a way to find out for yourself, why not take it up?
I used to question IP, I took it up.
I used to question qigong like the iron wire, I took it up.
I used to question the validity of ground work, I took it up.
Finding the answers to our questions is rather EASY, all we have to do is DO IT.

[Frost]

isnt this the guy that got caught a few years ago with doctured pictures on his site of him with his claimed master? something about the head not fitting the body and him managing not to caste any shadow in the photo?

if so these guys arent the first to call him into question

[mickey]

sanjuro ronin,

It is the not duty of a MA to question, it is the MA"s duty to investigate. I can tell your thread really means that and that you did that. It is pretty obvious that you cannot investigate someone's ability through the internet. You have to engage, touch, and experience. This is tradition. And, thankfully, it happens in this country.

mickey

[sanjuro_ronin]

sanjuro ronin,

It is the not duty of a MA to question, it is the MA"s duty to investigate. I can tell your thread really means that and that you did that. It is pretty obvious that you cannot investigate someone's ability through the internet. You have to engage, touch, and experience. This is tradition. And, thankfully, it happens in this country.

mickey

Question is the beginning of investigation, you don't investigate something that you don't have questions about, but I think we are in agreement and just kind of playing with the semantics of it.

[mickey]

Yeah,

I guess we are.


mickey

[MasterKiller]

isnt this the guy that got caught a few years ago with doctured pictures on his site of him with his claimed master? something about the head not fitting the body and him managing not to caste any shadow in the photo?

if so these guys arent the first to call him into question

Yeah, that was Painter. He put the same head on about 3 different photos.

[MysteriousPower]

Yeah, that was Painter. He put the same head on about 3 different photos.


Wow. Now there is proof of fraud. Just wow. Any response to this cut and paste job, Dale D?

[Knifefighter]

Lets make one thing clear, MP did nothing wrong in questioning what he read, far from that, it is the duty of every MA to question what sounds "fishy".
There is nothing wrong with that.
There was nothing wrong in questioning, just as there is nothing wrong in questioning the validity and effectiveness of chi sao, qigong, Qi in general, forms, the "too deadly" , etc, etc.
BUT if you are gonna question something and have no ulterior motives other than truth seeking, then when someone offers you a way to find out for yourself, why not take it up?
I used to question IP, I took it up.
I used to question qigong like the iron wire, I took it up.
I used to question the validity of ground work, I took it up.
Finding the answers to our questions is rather EASY, all we have to do is DO IT.

Before actually spending time and money to investigate something, it is always better to do some critical thinking to determine if it is worth your time and effort to actually investigate it.

In the case of being able to manipulate people without touching them, some basic logical thinking will pretty much prove the point that it is a complete hoax and not worth going out of your way to "investigate".

Otherwise, you'd be spending most of your life chasing down and "investigating" charlatans.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Before actually spending time and money to investigate something, it is always better to do some critical thinking to determine if it is worth your time and effort to actually investigate it.

In the case of being able to manipulate people without touching them, some basic logical thinking will pretty much prove the point that it is a complete hoax and not worth going out of your way to "investigate".

Otherwise, you'd be spending most of your life chasing down and "investigating" charlatans.

Well, you make a valid point.
But I do recall some studies done on manipulation via hypnosis and "suggestion", maybe there is some co-relation?

[EarthDragon]

BTW mysterious, the only ones who read my post incorrectly out of 242 views were KF and frost, why would I lie? its public knowledge. Perhaps you have a problem with reading comprehension as well, so before you loose more crediability thaen you alread have on this board go back and re read MY post. It clearly says (alternate bouts) but to atempt to make a point knife and frost who hate TMCA assumed I said main event. so before you speak on it read it for yourself.

[Knifefighter]

Well, you make a valid point.
But I do recall some studies done on manipulation via hypnosis and "suggestion", maybe there is some co-relation?

Yep, you can make someone do something they want to do or are convinced will happen (it's called the placebo effect and hypnotist use it all the time), but you can't make someone do something they don't want to do by suggestion.

It's the same principle all cults use. They can manipulate believers, but have zero influence on non-believers.

BTW, it's great for helping the healing process, but it is absolutely worthless for fighting.

[IronWeasel]

Well, you make a valid point.
But I do recall some studies done on manipulation via hypnosis and "suggestion", maybe there is some co-relation?



I was assuming that the 'manipulation without touching' was referring to a feint or a flinch or some kind that might cause your opponent to react in a common way.






Certain women can control me without touching me...at first...:)

[MysteriousPower]

if you look at thier posts , mystertious power and knifefighter troll and post every thread together at the same time. I am beginning to wonder if they are roomates or just lovers or the same person.

You must be a genius, Earthdragon.

If knifefighter agrees with me then he will post on my threads. I used to disagree with some of what Knifefighter used to say. Not so much now these days.

[MasterKiller]

Wow. Now there is proof of fraud. Just wow. Any response to this cut and paste job, Dale D?

This is the thread where it was discussed in 2004:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-28415.html

Painter eventually posted an apology and took them down, but I can't find that thread.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I was assuming that the 'manipulation without touching' was referring to a feint or a flinch or some kind that might cause your opponent to react in a common way.






Certain women can control me without touching me...at first...:)

http://0.tqn.com/d/accessories/1/0/Z/B/-/-/string-bikini.jpg

[Knifefighter]

I was assuming that the 'manipulation without touching' was referring to a feint or a flinch or some kind that might cause your opponent to react in a common way.

Really? That's what you got out of this:

"Legends tell of an amazing martial ability that allowed an internal
martial art master to control the movements of his enemy with the
lightest of touch and in come cases without touching him at all."

[IronWeasel]

Really? That's what you got out of this:

"Legends tell of an amazing martial ability that allowed an internal
martial art master to control the movements of his enemy with the
lightest of touch and in come cases without touching him at all."



What else could it be?:confused:

[Knifefighter]

What else could it be?:confused:

LOL... Sounds good to me.

[MartialDev]

The million dollar challenge is a fraud (http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/win-jref-million-dollar-challenge/) perpetuated by and for morons who mistake themselves for the intellectual elite.

Not sure what your link is meant to show because the writing is non-sensical.

According to wikipedia 1000 people have taken the Randi challenge, all agreed to the conditions of the test beforehand and NONE have passed.

How unfortunate that the writings of a PhD who has spent years investigating his subject, are incomprehensible to you. And yet somehow, you feel competent to dispute them.


Maybe he does have martial skill, but WTF does that have to do with supernatural powers?

Wouldn't it be nice if someone offered to explain the connection as they see it, with personal hands-on demonstrations? Like in a seminar for example? Oh wait...



If you were paying attention to anything else besides how cool you felt while posstong you would have noticed that I was not talking about fighting. I asked that either John or Dale DEMONSTRATE magical magnetic skills on a real resisting opponent in a way that does not look like kickboxing.

So are you personally competent to offer real resistance, or aren't you? It sounds like the answer is no: you are not competent. Meaning you don't actually know what "real resistance" means, and just want his videos to match the other favorite martial arts videos which form the basis of your expertise.


They are the ones claiming to be able to manipulate peoples' nervous systems...and you are questioning me?

I like to see wannabe Internet bullies get their comeuppance. It's a character flaw, I know.

You reposted someone else's thread here hoping to score an easy point, and you failed miserably. If you want quick satisfaction, let me suggest you return to the Ron Jeremy videos and leave the Kung Fu alone.

[Knifefighter]

Wouldn't it be nice if someone offered to explain the connection as they see it, with personal hands-on demonstrations? Like in a seminar for example? Oh wait...

Let's see, this stuff has supposedly been around for centuries. Yet in all that time not one single person has stepped up and demonstrated this in a live competitive activity such as MMA, BJJ, judo, Sambo, boxing, muay thai, kickboxing or any of the other full contact competitions that have been around for the last 70 years or so.

You'd think with all these ongoing seminars teaching all this stuff, SOMEBODY would have actually demonstrated it in an open, competitive environment.

[EarthDragon]

You reposted someone else's thread here hoping to score an easy point, and you failed miserably. If you want quick satisfaction, let me suggest you return to the Ron Jeremy videos and leave the Kung Fu alone.


LMAO!

[MysteriousPower]

How unfortunate that the writings of a PhD who has spent years investigating his subject, are incomprehensible to you. And yet somehow, you feel competent to dispute them.



Wouldn't it be nice if someone offered to explain the connection as they see it, with personal hands-on demonstrations? Like in a seminar for example? Oh wait...




So are you personally competent to offer real resistance, or aren't you? It sounds like the answer is no: you are not competent. Meaning you don't actually know what "real resistance" means, and just want his videos to match the other favorite martial arts videos which form the basis of your expertise.



I like to see wannabe Internet bullies get their comeuppance. It's a character flaw, I know.

You reposted someone else's thread here hoping to score an easy point, and you failed miserably. If you want quick satisfaction, let me suggest you return to the Ron Jeremy videos and leave the Kung Fu alone.


No, martialdev. I scored major points. You and tentigers are the only two to refute my great thread. You always appear 7 pages too late to fight back. You will not post again for 7 more pages so I will talk with you then.

Tentigers,
For the record I enjoy most of your posts accept for the ones filled with hillarcky and the ones where you are too politically correct.

[Eric Olson]

How unfortunate that the writings of a PhD who has spent years investigating his subject, are incomprehensible to you. And yet somehow, you feel competent to dispute them.

I interview PhDs for a living...and some of them, actually most of them, are horrible communicators or I wouldn't be employed. You can be the most brilliant person in the world but if you can't communicate your ideas effectively then what? Your link proves nothing.



Wouldn't it be nice if someone offered to explain the connection as they see it, with personal hands-on demonstrations? Like in a seminar for example? Oh wait...

If you're making claims that you can heat up objects without touching them, they you're violating everything we know about how the world works...through science. I'm willing to accept claims that would at least fit into some kind of scientific frame but come on.

If this guy can really shoot 200 degree heat out of his palms then why aren't his hands burned? His hands, like yours and mine are made up of cells that have a certain temperature they can withstand.

Its bogus....

EO

[EarthDragon]

mysterious power

No, martialdev. I scored major points. You and tentigers are the only two to refute my great thread.

your great thread? ???????? so your ego has been inflated by posting a thread on the internet? seriously?

[Violent Designs]

I want to give my opinion from a purely neutral perspective. That is, I am on amicable terms with almost everyone here but nobody is a "close-friend" or anything of that. I have no agendas to make anyone look good or bad.

So what is my opinion here? I believe that MysteriousPower actually had the balls to call out something that seemed extremely fishy and possibly fraudulent. Maybe this is a better thread for Bullshido, where it is much more likely that someone WILL TAKE THE INVITATION AND GO.

Now, while Dale and I do not really talk and I don't know him very well he has always been a very friendly individual to me and I have no desire to make his teacher look bad in any way. But as a martial artist we have to look at everything honestly.

Many people on this forum, including Sanjuro, Ten Tigers and other TCMA guys claim they want to see the "BS" within kung fu die, more or less. I am not putting words into other people's mouths so if they disagree with me, feel free to correct. Everytime there is a video of some Chinese charlatan with his death touch, qi-blasts, magical powers, etc.... these guys, and MYSELF, ridicule, laugh at and point out how it is all so FULL OF SH1T, and is only contributing to the demise and disintegration of true TCMA, with the essence for actual combat.

The only logical conclusion I can make regarding Sifu Painter's seminar is that the CLAIMS are rooted in mysticism and psuedo-science, as well as smelling like something fishy, not-true, or possible fraudulent. SPECIFICALLY referring to this line:


Legends tell of an amazing martial ability that allowed an internal
martial art master to control the movements of his enemy with the
lightest of touch and in come cases without touching him at all. These
legends that seem like magic are in fact true. The secret however is not
magic, but a subtle manipulation of an individual's nervous system by
the master.

1. Manipulation of movement with the slightest touch? Perhaps feasible, but certainly not IMPOSSIBLE, I should say. Maybe there is some insane skill. But still, probably not, but let's give the benefit of the doubt.

2. Manipulation of movement WITHOUT touching? Now, here is 100% mysticism and falsehood in my honest opinion. You cannot control someone from even millimeters away WITHOUT PHYSICAL TOUCH.

3. Manipulation of the nervous system? I'm not even sure what things means but at face value it sounds like psuedo-science and not something very real. For years now we have laughed off and ridiculed the people who claim to have "qi-control powers" or other similar, extraordinary feats. Things extends to "psychological mind control, mind manipulation, no-touch knockouts, etc."

I understand that some are good friends with Sifu Dale Dugas and even I, consider him a friend. However, we have to be completely open and honest in terms of questioning the validity of everything presented forth that seems rather fraudulent in nature. We CANNOT hold a double-standard of not questioning our friends, and only questioning the actions of those we don't know or don't care about.

As for me, as for my opinion. These claims set by Sifu Painter seems like bullshido mostly because of how the statements/claims were written. Perhaps he meant them in another way, but that I cannot say. He, Dale, or any affiliated person will have to speak about that.

Tell me, are these the skills that the seminar claims will be teaching? Or something similar to this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XI8JwLUako

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7hyOuckMt0&feature=related

Now compare the second video to this, as I believe these feats look similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI

[sanjuro_ronin]

Since everyone is quoting it:

Legends tell of an amazing martial ability that allowed an internal
martial art master to control the movements of his enemy with the
lightest of touch and in come cases without touching him at all

LEGENDS !!, LEGENDS PEOPLE !!!:p


These legends that seem like magic are in fact true. The secret however is not
magic, but a subtle manipulation of an individual's nervous system by
the master.
A claim that these legends, though passed off as magic are NOT magic but manipulation of the nervous system !!
*GASP!!*


Dr. John Painter of the Li family Daoqiquan lineage was
taught these amazing skills as a boy by Grand Master Li, Long-dao. He is
presenting this amazing art in a workshop entitled Magnetic Body Skills.
Come learn the truth behind the legend and discover that with just a
small amount of practice you to can use your Magnetic Body Skills on
others. This is an ideal skill for anyone in any style of martial art
and also for body-workers who want to go more deeply into their ability
to "touch" the client.

Individual A who was taught these skills that HE NOW calls "magnetic Body skills" can teach you these skills in a limited amount of time, regardless of your current MA.
This individual will teach you how to use this skill to manipulate the bodies of others via "touch".

So what do we have here?
A term being used by a person that is gonna teach you how to use anatomical leverage points and pressure points, to control another persons movements.

WOW !!!
Never heard of THAT before !!


You guys are all a bunch of c0cks !

[Knifefighter]

Individual A who was taught these skills that HE NOW calls "magnetic Body skills" IN AN ATTEMPT TO MARKET THEM AS PARANORMAL MYSTICAL SKILLS can teach you these skills in a limited amount of time, regardless of your current MA.
This individual will teach you how to use this skill to manipulate the bodies of others AS LONG AT THEY ARE EITHER SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER THAN YOU AND/OR HAVE NEVER DONE REALISTIC FULL CONTACT TRAINING via "touch".

Fixed to reflect the actual reality of the situation.

Can you imagine a BJJ, judo, boxer, wrestler or MT fighter marketing seminars the way these guys are marketing them? He'd get the same rack of sh!t we are giving these guys.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Fixed to reflect the actual reality of the situation.

Can you imagine a BJJ, judo, boxer, wrestler or MT fighter marketing seminars the way these guys are marketing them? He'd get the same rack of sh!t we are giving these guys.

LMAO, yes, I agree this a a "marketing gimmick" or at least it looks like it, which is NOT the same as saying that he has NO skill, just that he is putting a "marketing twist" on what is probably "sticking", and joint manipulation coupled with pressure point pressing (touching).

[Knifefighter]

LMAO, yes, I agree this a a "marketing gimmick" or at least it looks like it, which is NOT the same as saying that he has NO skill, just that he is putting a "marketing twist" on what is probably "sticking", and joint manipulation coupled with pressure point pressing (touching).

People (and styles) that do tons of demos with complying partners and have zero evidence of them (or their students) doing full contact against resisting opponents generally DON'T have skills.

If anyone should know this, it is you.

[Eric Olson]

Everytime there is a video of some Chinese charlatan with his death touch, qi-blasts, magical powers, etc.... these guys, and MYSELF, ridicule, laugh at and point out how it is all so FULL OF SH1T, and is only contributing to the demise and disintegration of true TCMA, with the essence for actual combat.

There are individuals within the MA community that have a deep understanding of human movement, which means they can SEEMINGLY manipulate others magically.

My Taiji teacher is like this. To touch hands with him you'd swear he has no bones in his body. He can throw you across the room with seemingly no effort. But it's because he understands where and when to apply the right pressure. And he's developed the ability to listen to your body with his own, while hiding his own intentions.

But it crosses a line when you move into "skills" that can have no explanation that fits within the framework of modern knowledge. And by modern knowledge, I mean science...our understanding of the natural world.

EO

[Knifefighter]

There are individuals within the MA community that have a deep understanding of human movement, which means they can SEEMINGLY manipulate others magically.
My Taiji teacher is like this. To touch hands with him you'd swear he has no bones in his body. He can throw you across the room with seemingly no effort. But it's because he understands where and when to apply the right pressure. And he's developed the ability to listen to your body with his own, while hiding his own intentions.

Funny how there is zero evidence of any of these so called MA "masters" ever effortlessly manipulating a combat athlete who trains and competes in the sport model.

This is just a much hokum as the other cr@p.

[MartialDev]

So what is my opinion here? I believe that MysteriousPower actually had the balls to call out something that seemed extremely fishy and possibly fraudulent.

Waitaminute. He makes baseless claims while hiding behind a screen name, and when he is offered the chance to experience the skill in person, FOR FREE, then he can't manage it.

Man, those aren't even baby balls.

I brought up Dean Radin because he has already proven, beyond the shadow of a statistical doubt, some of these skills that most people continue to believe are impossible. But it is hard for people to accept, so they usually ignore it or pretend it is "non-sensical."

P.S. Kumar also wrote about magnetic skills in one of his books. He is well known, or at least he was at one time, for his rough handling of bigmouths and nonbelievers. I don't mean to be signing him up for a fight here, but anyone who gets tired of playing the badass behind closed doors should know they have options, on both coasts.

[MartialDev]

If you're making claims that you can heat up objects without touching them, they you're violating everything we know about how the world works...through science.

Your scientific knowledge is five thousand years out of date.

Let me initiate you into THE SECRET OF FIRE.

It burns without touching!

(For more complete world knowledge, please look up heat transfer in wikipedia. This has been a public service announcement.)

[MysteriousPower]

Waitaminute. He makes baseless claims while hiding behind a screen name, and when he is offered the chance to experience the skill in person, FOR FREE, then he can't manage it.

Man, those aren't even baby balls.

I brought up Dean Radin because he has already proven, beyond the shadow of a statistical doubt, some of these skills that most people continue to believe are impossible. But it is hard for people to accept, so they usually ignore it or pretend it is "non-sensical."

P.S. Kumar also wrote about magnetic skills in one of his books. He is well known, or at least he was at one time, for his rough handling of bigmouths and nonbelievers. I don't mean to be signing him up for a fight here, but anyone who gets tired of playing the badass behind closed doors should know they have options, on both coasts.

Kumar wrote a lot of qi hugging stuff and is pushing it to the max these days to make a living. He is doing it mostly because he is too old and crippled to be taken seriously as a fighter now. BUT back then he was a fighter and from what I hear a big d-bag to people like you. You would make a qi claim and he would kick your a$$. He was a big, rough, mofo who studied other styles before settling into the internal mumbo gumbo. He was an a$$ kicker because that is who he was not due to walking around in circles. The issue with him is more of a time period issue. The tournaments he fought in had contestants that did not train contact the way modern mma does. How would he have faired today? That would be an interesting topic.

[Knifefighter]

Waitaminute. He makes baseless claims while hiding behind a screen name, and when he is offered the chance to experience the skill in person, FOR FREE, then he can't manage it.

Man, those aren't even baby balls.

I brought up Dean Radin because he has already proven, beyond the shadow of a statistical doubt, some of these skills that most people continue to believe are impossible. But it is hard for people to accept, so they usually ignore it or pretend it is "non-sensical."

P.S. Kumar also wrote about magnetic skills in one of his books. He is well known, or at least he was at one time, for his rough handling of bigmouths and nonbelievers. I don't mean to be signing him up for a fight here, but anyone who gets tired of playing the badass behind closed doors should know they have options, on both coasts.

Are you saying you know people on the west coast who would be willing to demonstrate these body manipulation abilities against resisting opponents who are around their own weight?

[MysteriousPower]

I want to give my opinion from a purely neutral perspective. That is, I am on amicable terms with almost everyone here but nobody is a "close-friend" or anything of that. I have no agendas to make anyone look good or bad.

So what is my opinion here? I believe that MysteriousPower actually had the balls to call out something that seemed extremely fishy and possibly fraudulent. Maybe this is a better thread for Bullshido, where it is much more likely that someone WILL TAKE THE INVITATION AND GO.

Now, while Dale and I do not really talk and I don't know him very well he has always been a very friendly individual to me and I have no desire to make his teacher look bad in any way. But as a martial artist we have to look at everything honestly.

Many people on this forum, including Sanjuro, Ten Tigers and other TCMA guys claim they want to see the "BS" within kung fu die, more or less. I am not putting words into other people's mouths so if they disagree with me, feel free to correct. Everytime there is a video of some Chinese charlatan with his death touch, qi-blasts, magical powers, etc.... these guys, and MYSELF, ridicule, laugh at and point out how it is all so FULL OF SH1T, and is only contributing to the demise and disintegration of true TCMA, with the essence for actual combat.

The only logical conclusion I can make regarding Sifu Painter's seminar is that the CLAIMS are rooted in mysticism and psuedo-science, as well as smelling like something fishy, not-true, or possible fraudulent. SPECIFICALLY referring to this line:



1. Manipulation of movement with the slightest touch? Perhaps feasible, but certainly not IMPOSSIBLE, I should say. Maybe there is some insane skill. But still, probably not, but let's give the benefit of the doubt.

2. Manipulation of movement WITHOUT touching? Now, here is 100% mysticism and falsehood in my honest opinion. You cannot control someone from even millimeters away WITHOUT PHYSICAL TOUCH.

3. Manipulation of the nervous system? I'm not even sure what things means but at face value it sounds like psuedo-science and not something very real. For years now we have laughed off and ridiculed the people who claim to have "qi-control powers" or other similar, extraordinary feats. Things extends to "psychological mind control, mind manipulation, no-touch knockouts, etc."

I understand that some are good friends with Sifu Dale Dugas and even I, consider him a friend. However, we have to be completely open and honest in terms of questioning the validity of everything presented forth that seems rather fraudulent in nature. We CANNOT hold a double-standard of not questioning our friends, and only questioning the actions of those we don't know or don't care about.

As for me, as for my opinion. These claims set by Sifu Painter seems like bullshido mostly because of how the statements/claims were written. Perhaps he meant them in another way, but that I cannot say. He, Dale, or any affiliated person will have to speak about that.

Tell me, are these the skills that the seminar claims will be teaching? Or something similar to this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XI8JwLUako

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7hyOuckMt0&feature=related

Now compare the second video to this, as I believe these feats look similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI

I quoted the while thing. Everyone get over it. :)

Violent designs,

I cannot believe what I am reading! You should be put to death. I agree with Violent designs. And I forgive him for adding choy li fut threads to the 8 thousand others in the southern kung fu forum. ;)

[Knifefighter]

Your scientific knowledge is five thousand years out of date.

Let me initiate you into THE SECRET OF FIRE.

It burns without touching!

(For more complete world knowledge, please look up heat transfer in wikipedia. This has been a public service announcement.)

If his body was producing temperatures of 200 degrees F, the proteins in his body would have denatured far before that.

[MysteriousPower]

Guys, I have to make an apology here.

I just reread the advertisement for Dale's seminar and I missed an important part. Can control an opponent WITHOUT even touching him? I apologize for not being rude enough! How the heck did I forget that morsel of information? I wish I could manipulate my palm to slap my forehead like they will teach in this seminar.

Now nothing will stop my tirade. Dale, why don't you just use the force and make me stop typing posts? While you are at it can you manipulate Osama Bin Laden to cone out of his cave and turn himself in? The US government is offering millions for his capture. You would not have to teach small timers anymore. How come you do not want to be a millionaire?

I feel my second wind coming. I was about to let this thread go like a child going off to college wherever the wind and alcohol take him. But now I see that my son needs more direction. You could teach your skills to prostitutes. Then would definitely be clean then because they could do everything from across the room.

[Violent Designs]

Guys, I have to make an apology here.

I just reread the advertisement for Dale's seminar and I missed an important part. Can control an opponent WITHOUT even touching him? I apologize for not being rude enough! How the heck did I forget that morsel of information? I wish I could manipulate my palm to slap my forehead like they will teach in this seminar.

Now nothing will stop my tirade. Dale, why don't you just use the force and make me stop typing posts? While you are at it can you manipulate Osama Bin Laden to cone out of his cave and turn himself in? The US government is offering millions for his capture. You would not have to teach small timers anymore. How come you do not want to be a millionaire?

I feel my second wind coming. I was about to let this thread go like a child going off to college wherever the wind and alcohol take him. But now I see that my son needs more direction. You could teach your skills to prostitutes. Then would definitely be clean then because they could do everything from across the room.

If you want to investigate the credibility of the subject matter, I advise you to NOT drag yourself down to the level of personal attacks and instigating a flame war.

The point is to be logical and reasonable, not to use character assassination...

[Knifefighter]

Guys, I have to make an apology here.

I just reread the advertisement for Dale's seminar and I missed an important part. Can control an opponent WITHOUT even touching him? I apologize for not being rude enough! How the heck did I forget that morsel of information? I wish I could manipulate my palm to slap my forehead like they will teach in this seminar. .

I think we established they are just going to make people flinch. They simply didn't know how to describe the flinch response, that's all.

We've got it all straightened out now.

[MysteriousPower]

If you want to investigate the credibility of the subject matter, I advise you to NOT drag yourself down to the level of personal attacks and instigating a flame war.

The point is to be logical and reasonable, not to use character assassination...

You are right. You and knifefighter are so refined in your responses.

I will refrain from the type of sarcastic humor that will lead to hurt feelings. There is no reason for it just like there is no reason to degrade Kung fu with non-touch nonsense.

[Lucas]

you can SOMETIMES make SOME people move without touching them. you usually have to touch them a few times first, often in the form of very hard strikes that hurt alot. then you can maneuver them with intent and movment, via fear and intimidation.

does that count?

youtube a few decent fighters, any will do, and you have your proof.

:p ;)

[Knifefighter]

you can SOMETIMES make SOME people move without touching them. you usually have to touch them a few times first, often in the form of very hard strikes that hurt alot. then you can maneuver them with intent and movment, via fear and intimidation.

does that count?

youtube a few decent fighters, any will do, and you have your proof.

:p ;)

Yeah, like I said, I think we established that is what they will be doing.

Our work is done here.

[TenTigers]

I think we established they are just going to make people flinch. They simply didn't know how to describe the flinch response, that's all.

We've got it all straightened out now.
I think you are close with that, Dale. It seems that he was leading him. In NLP you mirror the person in order to get a rapport with him. A test is to do a shift, meaning you do a different move, and he will follow your lead. Then you have a link. I believe that is akin to what is going on in the first video.

[MartialDev]

Kumar wrote a lot of qi hugging stuff and is pushing it to the max these days to make a living. He is doing it mostly because he is too old and crippled to be taken seriously as a fighter now. BUT back then he was a fighter and from what I hear a big d-bag to people like you. You would make a qi claim and he would kick your a$$. He was a big, rough, mofo who studied other styles before settling into the internal mumbo gumbo. He was an a$$ kicker because that is who he was not due to walking around in circles. The issue with him is more of a time period issue. The tournaments he fought in had contestants that did not train contact the way modern mma does. How would he have faired today? That would be an interesting topic.

Truly, there is nothing you won't pretend to know. A dubious and mysterious power indeed.

I shall refrain from further comment, and pray for all our sakes that somehow you will do the same.

[David Jamieson]

In the case of how this is often portrayed in videos, it's malarky in my opinion.

In the case where the students go wild, it's hypnotism (which is also a connection) for the most part.

The thing is, when you do it with the same people all the time..well. Everybody learns their part.


Is there energy all around us? Yes.

Do we use it? Yes again.

Can we cultivate it within ourselves to become robust? Yes.

Can we use that robustness to generate particular dynamics in our relationship with others? Yes.

Can we conform others to particular behaviours that we control?
Happens all the time.

Can you "throw force" out of the mechanics of your body without touching something/someone and without using any device? Minimal, you could put a candle out perhaps or the like.

Strength through cultivation, stamina through cultivation and technique through practice are way better paths in my opinion.

Although refined energetics is interesting and has something of merit to it, I don't know about combatives, except in acts of deception. Although, feinting or having a good enough understanding of structure to be able to use minor amounts of force to achieve large amounts of damage is tied to this too.

But the "healing touch", in a very real sense such as massage, chiro and other forms of energy work and body work really do a lot of good.

[TenTigers]

But the "healing touch", in a very real sense such as massage, chiro and other forms of energy work and body work really do a lot of good.

Hey...What is it about people who do Reiki, that they have to work it into the conversation within a minute of meeting them?
"..Oh, and did I tell you? I'm also a Reki Master."

[Eric Olson]

Funny how there is zero evidence of any of these so called MA "masters" ever effortlessly manipulating a combat athlete who trains and competes in the sport model.

This is just a much hokum as the other cr@p.

Those are hardly the same and it's a disservice to lump them together.

In one case we're talking about a comparison of physical skill. It's something that IF the "master" and the "combat athlete" met up there'd be a winner and no supernatural powers need be invoked.

But this is something completely different, it's a denial of science and an invocation of the paranormal/supernatural. That's the part that raises my hackles.

EO

[LaterthanNever]

Well Mysteriouspower,


Interesting irony with the screename you chose if you are such a skeptic about energy, yet you villify Dale. Hmmmm:rolleyes:

At any rate, so you RE-read his advert and now you have your "second wind".

The guy is inviting you and your other sycophant to attend..AND FREE at that. And he's willing to demonstrate ON YOU!

Surely, someone so monomaniacal(look it up) would be jumping at the chance, right?

You've got nothing to lose Laddie!!

[Frost]

This is the thread where it was discussed in 2004:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-28415.html

Painter eventually posted an apology and took them down, but I can't find that thread.

Thought I remembered that episode lol, that particular thread seems to be missing but there are a few other old threads on here about it. Didn’t he blame it on someone else being in charge of the website and him having no control over it?

Someone brought up Kumar, I don’t think that’s a valid comparison, although both are involved in teaching chi kung and do make some big claims Kumar travelled to the East and sort out the best teachers both internal and external he could find, his lineage is out there for all to see and is well documented and his teachers well known and respected.

He also spent time in Chinese medical facilities learning their healing methods so no one can question his knowledge and lineage in regards to healing.

In addition he was known as a fighter who wasn’t afraid to mix it up with anyone (up until his car accident that is) and believed in sparring and fighting and saw the internals as a valid fighting method IF one could put the hours a day he felt was necessary to make them work, it seems in this day and age he doesn’t feel people can put forth this effort so teaches them as a health system which he charges the earth to learn (but it’s a free country no one is forced to go to him).

His list of teachers when it comes to having a fighting back ground is also impressive so again his lineage is open for all to see. And I don’t see him selling his seminars with outlandish claims like some.

And I think he was originally brought up because he mentioned magnetic hands in his book, he in regard to one person he touched hands with (a direct descendent of the Yang family) but he never claimed to be able to teach it or understand it just that it happened to him, and yes the way he talks about the internals and their power can be a bit off putting, but he also tries to demystify the teaching and explain them in western terms

[MysteriousPower]

Well Mysteriouspower,


Interesting irony with the screename you chose if you are such a skeptic about energy, yet you villify Dale. Hmmmm:rolleyes:

At any rate, so you RE-read his advert and now you have your "second wind".

The guy is inviting you and your other sycophant to attend..AND FREE at that. And he's willing to demonstrate ON YOU!

Surely, someone so monomaniacal(look it up) would be jumping at the chance, right?

You've got nothing to lose Laddie!!


Laterthannever,
Interesting irony that your name is Laterthannever and you end up posting for the first time for this thread on the 9th page. Actually it is not irony.

I do no need to go all the way to Boston to get "shown" that magnetic hands works. I can tell you right now that no one can control anyone without touching them. Use your brain and think critically for a second. People who fall for this will end up being controlled like all those yahoos on YouTube that just fall over when touched. Buying snake wine will do as much good as drinking herbal tea with honey.

If I ended up there I would be sarcastic and non-compliant. Dale and John Painter combined would not be able to manipulate me from a distance. I am willing to bet you a $300. Likley we would all end up brawling and no matter who won that it still would not prove that someone can be controlled from a distance.

[Dale Dugas]

It seems people have assumed much when it comes to what is going to be presented here in Boston on December 17th, 2010.

I have invited the doubting thomas' in the group to my school to personally witness these skills.

These skills have nothing to do with what is being bandied about. No where in the ad or the workshop will people be practicing anything that involves NOT touching people. All who attend will be learning all manner of ways to deal with people while in direct contact with them.

As mentioned before, the person who started this thread is braying long and loud, but will not come see for themselves what is being presented.

MP,

You can come be as sarcastic and non-compliant as you wish. You will still be placed on the floor, up against walls, and handled with ease. And I will do it softly and with whole body connection and whole body power. I can do this to you with one arm, two arms, and no arms though much to your chagrin, I will be contact with you using my body.

My door is always open, gentlemen.

My question to everyone, is why is it that unknown posters have the privilege to slander and libel people who are open and upfront about what they do, where they teach, and have a very public persona on the internet, yet I and my teacher are under attack without said unknown people being known?

I can backup everything I say and do.

It is rather simple.

Seems people would rather slander and libel people than come see themselves be educated to other material.

[LaterthanNever]

Only $300??

Better up the ante son! So noone can control you from a distance eh?

I normally don't assume gender w/ someone with whom I've never met..but lets just say I DID for a sec.

I'll assume you're male. I'll also assume you're heterosexual.

If a really STUNNING looking woman with curves in all the right places walked in front of you wearing little more than a reall skimpy bikini..

I'll be 300 MILLION that you, my friend would definitely be "controlled from a distance"..

And yeah..she doesn't have to put a HAND ON YOU!! :rolleyes:

And you've been CONTROLLED all along by your response to this thread. Look at how much of an internal representation it elicited in you to begin with.

And look at how it CONTINUES to manipulate you?!

[David Jamieson]

It seems people have assumed much when it comes to what is going to be presented here in Boston on December 17th, 2010.

I have invited the doubting thomas' in the group to my school to personally witness these skills.

These skills have nothing to do with what is being bandied about. No where in the ad or the workshop will people be practicing anything that involves NOT touching people. All who attend will be learning all manner of ways to deal with people while in direct contact with them.

As mentioned before, the person who started this thread is braying long and loud, but will not come see for themselves what is being presented.

MP,

You can come be as sarcastic and non-compliant as you wish. You will still be placed on the floor, up against walls, and handled with ease. And I will do it softly and with whole body connection and whole body power.

My door is always open, gentlemen.

My question to you is why is it that unknown posters have the privilege to slander and libel people who are open and upfront about what they do, where they teach, and have a very public persona on the net.

I can backup everything I say and do.

Dale-

I personally attribute it to a couple of factors.

1) This forum is notoriously un-moderated for the most part and so, there's a lot of dents in the armor of it.

2) There is an insistence about reality coming from a small camp of people who cannot grasp different things and only choose to cherry pick the absurd and place that in front of everything to the detriment of all.

3) armchair ufc opinions are all the rage and you get a lot of people who cannot see past that visceral type of activity and cannot make a connection with other aspects particularly in regards to Asian martial arts which have a whole lot of other seemingly unrelated to fighting material in their curricula.

I do believe these belligerent and posturing folks who cannot back themselves up and choose to be like little babies and poke tigers in cages with sticks to see if they will roar.

I'd still rather be the tiger than the stupid baby with a stick.

Be the tiger. :D

[Dale Dugas]

funny that the two people who are braying the loudest want to talk about sparring.

Sparring has rules, pads, and IMHO teaches bad habits as one gets used to having protective gear on.

You will not have rules, pads, etc on the street. And one should be able to fight without said gear.

People should hit things with unwrapped hands to see what its like. Many of these young people think they will be punching someone in the head with an ungloved hand and will come out unscathed.

Hate to say it but have seen many fights as a bouncer and EMT, that ended with someone breaking their hand on a head.

That is why I wrote my Iron Palm for MMA article for Kung Fu Magazine a while back, to get people to think about hand conditioning so they do not have to glove up at all.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

It seems people have assumed much when it comes to what is going to be presented here in Boston on December 17th, 2010.

I have invited the doubting thomas' in the group to my school to personally witness these skills.

These skills have nothing to do with what is being bandied about. No where in the ad or the workshop will people be practicing anything that involves NOT touching people. All who attend will be learning all manner of ways to deal with people while in direct contact with them.

As mentioned before, the person who started this thread is braying long and loud, but will not come see for themselves what is being presented.

MP,

You can come be as sarcastic and non-compliant as you wish. You will still be placed on the floor, up against walls, and handled with ease. And I will do it softly and with whole body connection and whole body power. I can do this to you with one arm, two arms, and no arms though much to your chagrin, I will be contact with you using my body.

My door is always open, gentlemen.

My question to everyone, is why is it that unknown posters have the privilege to slander and libel people who are open and upfront about what they do, where they teach, and have a very public persona on the internet, yet I and my teacher are under attack without said unknown people being known?

I can backup everything I say and do.

It is rather simple.

Seems people would rather slander and libel people than come see themselves be educated to other material.

Dale,

One thing I can say for certain is for as long as I have been posting here you have always maintained this outlook of an open door policy to what you do and who you are, and you have always invited doubters to come train with you and see for themselves. If more posters on here were like that and less "anonoymous" this place would be more productive and there would be a lot less stupid flame wars.

[sanjuro_ronin]

People (and styles) that do tons of demos with complying partners and have zero evidence of them (or their students) doing full contact against resisting opponents generally DON'T have skills.

If anyone should know this, it is you.

I can't argue with you on that.

[MysteriousPower]

It seems people have assumed much when it comes to what is going to be presented here in Boston on December 17th, 2010.

I have invited the doubting thomas' in the group to my school to personally witness these skills.

These skills have nothing to do with what is being bandied about. No where in the ad or the workshop will people be practicing anything that involves NOT touching people. All who attend will be learning all manner of ways to deal with people while in direct contact with them.

As mentioned before, the person who started this thread is braying long and loud, but will not come see for themselves what is being presented.

MP,

You can come be as sarcastic and non-compliant as you wish. You will still be placed on the floor, up against walls, and handled with ease. And I will do it softly and with whole body connection and whole body power. I can do this to you with one arm, two arms, and no arms though much to your chagrin, I will be contact with you using my body.

My door is always open, gentlemen.

My question to everyone, is why is it that unknown posters have the privilege to slander and libel people who are open and upfront about what they do, where they teach, and have a very public persona on the internet, yet I and my teacher are under attack without said unknown people being known?

I can backup everything I say and do.

It is rather simple.

Seems people would rather slander and libel people than come see themselves be educated to other material.

Your question is ridiculous. Why are anonymous posters allowed to slander people are open and up front? It is not slandering. We are discussing. You are at the negative end of things and are looking badly for it. Unfortunately that is what happens when you put yourself out there. This is the reason most kung fu people will not put up a video of them sparring. They are not in their comfort zone and will look bad. People will comment and talk badly about kung fu and many of these people have a living to make and a reputation to keep. I am not judging them for it but this is probably closer to the truth than the whole "Keeping it behind closed doors" excuse.

This is America. We are allowed to do these things here. This is not Communist China where the government can ban youtube or socialistic Europe/Canada where people have to work within one system(healthcare). Actually in a few years we will be similar to Europe in the healthcare respect but still the best goddarn country ever.

You want the moderators to get rid of what you do not like. Why do you get to choose? If I had a choice I would have the moderators get rid of all this qi hugging nonsense that permeates kung fu and only keep threads about technique, sparring, training, etc. The esoteric stuff would be cut as well. Do you see why moderators cannot just cut out what you do not like? Because everyone on here dislikes someone else's posts or certain subjects and the moderators would go crazy. And they are working for free. Do not put up questionable seminar ads unless you want to open yourself up or get over it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have nothing to do with Sifu Painter.
Dale and I are friends, yes, but that is the extent of any relationship I have with ANYONE in Jiulong Bagua.
I have only seen clips of Sifu Painter and they are all demos so I can't comment on what the man can't or can do.
I will say this:
Manipulating people via anatomical control and even "mind control" is nothing new in the MA, we who have been around the blocks have all seen this.
You can call it hypnosis, kiai-jutsu or whatever, it is all the same thing, the power of suggestion and it is a VALID method of self defense IN CONJUNCTION with a practical one.
Those no touch and light touch ko's, like the many others demoed over the years are simply "faints" based on that "power" or striking the area like the vagus never ( ST9) or other neurological shut down points, or typically a combination of both.

I think that we have to be weary of throwing the term "fraud" around.

If I tell someone that I can make them unconcious without hitting them AT ALL and that it will be painless and they won't feel any discomfort and that I can wake them up and they will be just fine, some would question that.
Then I apply a RNC and all is clear.
Does that make me a fraud?

[MysteriousPower]

funny that the two people who are braying the loudest want to talk about sparring.

Sparring has rules, pads, and IMHO teaches bad habits as one gets used to having protective gear on.

You will not have rules, pads, etc on the street. And one should be able to fight without said gear.

People should hit things with unwrapped hands to see what its like. Many of these young people think they will be punching someone in the head with an ungloved hand and will come out unscathed.

Hate to say it but have seen many fights as a bouncer and EMT, that ended with someone breaking their hand on a head.

That is why I wrote my Iron Palm for MMA article for Kung Fu Magazine a while back, to get people to think about hand conditioning so they do not have to glove up at all.


You did not just bring out the too deadly to spar argument did you? Oh my god. Kung fu is not too deadly to spar. Kung fu is too uncoordinated from years of unrealistic training methods to use sparring effectively as a training method. The fact that this argument is still used is sad.

Sparring, like all training methods, help to develop attributes that COULD be helpful in a real fight. The reality is that real muggings happen with more than one person attacking you and likely they have weapons. NOTHING can prepare you for defending yourself against multiple attacks who have weapons and you are alone. Not sparring, and especially not forms and iron palm and qi gong. Sparring will prepare you mentally much better than the latter three methods I just mentioned.

[EarthDragon]

mysterious power
Im really sick of this back and forth stuff, you make assumptions and have drawn a conclusion that is incomplete.

Dale is willing to prove you wrong and you wont accept it? Then you ned to shut up and stop posting until you at least have a better understanding.

If you challenge someone and he accepts but you dont want to take the time to drive there then your all talk and cant be taken seriously, we call that a p u s sy

[MysteriousPower]

I have nothing to do with Sifu Painter.
Dale and I are friends, yes, but that is the extent of any relationship I have with ANYONE in Jiulong Bagua.
I have only seen clips of Sifu Painter and they are all demos so I can't comment on what the man can't or can do.
I will say this:
Manipulating people via anatomical control and even "mind control" is nothing new in the MA, we who have been around the blocks have all seen this.
You can call it hypnosis, kiai-jutsu or whatever, it is all the same thing, the power of suggestion and it is a VALID method of self defense IN CONJUNCTION with a practical one.
Those no touch and light touch ko's, like the many others demoed over the years are simply "faints" based on that "power" or striking the area like the vagus never ( ST9) or other neurological shut down points, or typically a combination of both.

I think that we have to be weary of throwing the term "fraud" around.

If I tell someone that I can make them unconcious without hitting them AT ALL and that it will be painless and they won't feel any discomfort and that I can wake them up and they will be just fine, some would question that.
Then I apply a RNC and all is clear.
Does that make me a fraud?

I chalk this up to abilities that SOME people can instinctively do. For example I believe that somewhere somehow sometime there was a person that could levitate sorta. But it is suspect when this person claims to be able to teach something he can do naturally. And then when they tell you it can help in self defense...run.

[MysteriousPower]

mysterious power
Im really sick of this back and forth stuff, you make assumptions and have drawn a conclusion that is incomplete.

Dale is willing to prove you wrong and you wont accept it? Then you ned to shut up and stop posting until you at least have a better understanding.

If you challenge someone and he accepts but you dont want to take the time to drive there then your all talk and cant be taken seriously, we call that a p u s sy

Option 1: I have a better idea to help you deal with your issue of not liking my posts. You should just block me like you did to knifefighter and like David Jameson did to me. That way you can avoid your stress and live in your happy bubble. This forum is just like real life in a way. Either run away from it(block/ignore) or put up and deal with it head on. We all have this option. Its called freedom. Choose to use it or stfu.

Option 2: I am sorry you are offended. You have stated that you have had street fighting experience, sparring, multiple mantis style training, shuai jiao throwing...read Dale's ad again. Read it from the part of your brain that absorbed all the years of practical martial arts. Leave your anger at the door. Be objective. And then come back on here.

[IronWeasel]

I believe that somewhere somehow sometime there was a person that could levitate sorta.


...and you're bashing these guys??? LolZ.

You've come to the right forum!







...but you meant levitating as in....Air Tran or something...right?:)

[MysteriousPower]

Hey, it is okay to believe in the esoteric...as long as you do not try to link it to health, enlightenment, and combat.

As a stand alone weirdness they are fine but when you try to say A* leads to skill in B* then you are making the mistake.

[Knifefighter]

funny that the two people who are braying the loudest want to talk about sparring.

Sparring has rules, pads, and IMHO teaches bad habits as one gets used to having protective gear on.

You will not have rules, pads, etc on the street. And one should be able to fight without said gear.

People should hit things with unwrapped hands to see what its like. Many of these young people think they will be punching someone in the head with an ungloved hand and will come out unscathed.

Please show one single video clip of you fighting full contact without gear.

For over 150 years, every time someone has made the above argument and then tested themselves against the sport model, they have come up short.

[Knifefighter]

People (and styles) that do tons of demos with complying partners and have zero evidence of them (or their students) doing full contact against resisting opponents generally DON'T have skills.

If anyone should know this, it is you.


I can't argue with you on that.

You and I also know that the same thing applies to the people who make the statement about sparring with gear being inferior to their "street without rules" training.

[Knifefighter]

Speaking of "d3adly str33t" techniques, remember this classic oldie-but-goodie of the 250lb kung fu "master" who was making the same claims and then got his @ss handed to him by a 150lb BJJ blue belt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEml6-JNwaA

The most ironic part was where he was lying helpless on the ground saying "I'm going to kill you." So much for 35 years of deadly street training without gear.

[goju]

Man all the clear H0moerotic undertones in this e-fight between middle aged men isnt appropiate for a wholesome family forum like this,

Go hump each others legs in pms already fellas:p

[goju]

also....

http://eteamz.active.com/rockman/images/shovel-fight.gif

profound words...... profound words.....

[Sardinkahnikov]

i guess that means nobody will accept the dale dugas's invitation?

[Lucas]

of course not.

[lkfmdc]

Here's a quick observation about how things often play out on the internet

Someone disputed the date that a certain book was published, when I pointed out that they were wrong, they challenged me to a fight. Well, obvious issue here, whether you can beat me up or not doesn't mean you are right about the date the book was published. See?

If you claim you can shoot chi balls out your butt, and someone says, "well come down and fight" and they beat you up with boxing, how does that prove you can shoot said chi balls?

Lots of stuff in TCMA is like this, skills aside, TCMA frequently gets mired down in very questionable claims and "strange" (I am being kind here) practices....

I like Dale Dugas, I've said good things about Painter's bagua in the past, even mentioning how he tied in knots a certain "big name" Chinese sifu.

But let's be honest here, there are other things Painter does and/or has been inolved in which asking questions about is not a sin

[MysteriousPower]

i guess that means nobody will accept the dale dugas's invitation?

The cost of the seminar is cheap. It is the airfare and hotel accommodations that are expensive. Did you all forget about that cost?

[Frost]

Here's a quick observation about how things often play out on the internet

Someone disputed the date that a certain book was published, when I pointed out that they were wrong, they challenged me to a fight. Well, obvious issue here, whether you can beat me up or not doesn't mean you are right about the date the book was published. See?

If you claim you can shoot chi balls out your butt, and someone says, "well come down and fight" and they beat you up with boxing, how does that prove you can shoot said chi balls?

Lots of stuff in TCMA is like this, skills aside, TCMA frequently gets mired down in very questionable claims and "strange" (I am being kind here) practices....

I like Dale Dugas, I've said good things about Painter's bagua in the past, even mentioning how he tied in knots a certain "big name" Chinese sifu.

But let's be honest here, there are other things Painter does and/or has been inolved in which asking questions about is not a sin

David Ross as the voice of reason......have we really come to this?!:eek::eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

But let's be honest here, there are other things Painter does and/or has been inolved in which asking questions about is not a sin

Quite right and that is why I said that MP question was correct and that one should indeed question when claims are made.
That said, the only way MP is going to have his questioned answered is by meeting up with them.

Like you said, TCMA is full of this stuff, grandios claims that are nothing more than marketing but they are not alone, my beloved kyokushin had them with Oyama, Goju had them with Miyagi, fact is, I think every MA, to some extent had them ( Rickson 400-0, Mifune never being thrown, etc, etc).

[lkfmdc]

David Ross as the voice of reason......have we really come to this?!:eek::eek:

the last seal of the apocalypse has been broken......

[Frost]

the last seal of the apocalypse has been broken......

my world has turned up side down and no nothing makes sense......:eek:

[Dragonzbane76]

:)
when I pointed out that they were wrong, they challenged me to a fight. Well, obvious issue here, whether you can beat me up or not doesn't mean you are right

I thought it was a "friendly" sparring match? And I thought the guy was off his meds. for a period of time. My bad thought you were talking of someone else

[goju]

i guess that means nobody will accept the dale dugas's invitation?

You mean all this was a waste of time!!! oh how suprised i am!!!!

[David Jamieson]

My money is on Dale to rearrange the map on all sh1t-talkers here when it comes down to it. lol

[EarthDragon]

mysterious power

Option 1: I have a better idea to help you deal with your issue of not liking my posts. You should just block me like you did to knifefighter and like David Jameson did to me. That way you can avoid your stress and live in your happy bubble.


Option 2: I am sorry you are offended. You have stated that you have had street fighting experience, sparring, multiple mantis style training, shuai jiao throwing...read Dale's ad again. Read it from the part of your brain that absorbed all the years of practical martial arts. Leave your anger at the door. Be objective. And then come back on here.

you are not offending me at all and you have never went out of your way and made a rude comment about me as kniffighter has so there no need to block you,

that being said YOU purposly went out of YOUR way to dicredit someone before you knew the truth. This is wrong whether you agree with me or not, so Dale offered to prove it to you and you make up excuses why you can go.

So in my book thats like a challenge and you are afraid to go! dont blame it on travel expenses if it means that much to you that he cant do it then just ignore it dont log onto the internet to prove you point when you got a way to prove it and you chickened out

[MightyB]

something I was thinking about as I skimmed this thread -

I personally don't believe a lot of the internal claims but a friend of mine who happens to be a physicist does and loves this stuff.

I'll recommend for people to go and see for themselves to see what they think. You can't see it in a video even if it does exist in the ways that's described. But, as someone said, that's an expensive town for a seminar.

[Frost]

Please show one single video clip of you fighting full contact without gear.

For over 150 years, every time someone has made the above argument and then tested themselves against the sport model, they have come up short.

quoted for truth

[Sardinkahnikov]

What happen to the traditional Wude here? :confused:

I also came to this forum thinking that people were mostly like this:
http://kaleidoscope.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/upload/upfiles/2009-06/09/culturalchinaa51e88a4043c454c9ed9.jpg

But, as it turns out, they're mostly more like this:
http://www.scotlands-enchanting-kingdom.com/images/confused-monkey.jpg

So it's better to not take anything seriously and dig for the hidden pearls when you feel like it. Flipping out over the passive-agressive posturing made by some douche who posts on a computer with his alimony settlement from the confort of his trailer is not worth it.

[David Jamieson]

You will find that the great majority of martial artists are more like the monkey than the meditator. :D

I like to be a little of both, yin yang and all that eh?

[YouKnowWho]

I also came to this forum thinking that people were mostly like this:
http://kaleidoscope.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/upload/upfiles/2009-06/09/culturalchinaa51e88a4043c454c9ed9.jpg

But, as it turns out, they're mostly more like this:
http://www.scotlands-enchanting-kingdom.com/images/confused-monkey.jpg

So it's better to not take anything seriously and dig for the hidden pearls when you feel like it. Flipping out over the passive-agressive posturing made by some douche who posts on a computer with his alimony settlement from the confort of his trailer is not worth it.
Agree 100% there.

Our skin will get thicker and thicker day by day when we stay on this forum. Many years ago, words such as "clueless", "old fashion", ... used to bother me. Today, words such as "MF", "SOB", ... will just make me laugh. Not sure the chang is good (have more tolerance) or bad (lose self-respect). :(

[David Jamieson]

Agree 100% there.

Our skin will get thicker and thicker day by day when we stay on this forum. Many years ago, words such as "clueless", "old fashion", ... used to bother me. Today, words such as "MF", "SOB", ... will just make me laugh. Not sure the chang is good (have more tolerance) or bad (lose self-respect). :(

more acceptance and tolerance, in my opinion has more value in living than a perception of self respect. If you are an amicable sort of fellow, keep good hygiene, adhere somewhat to the 8 fold path or something like it, then there is no self respect to lose by entering into discussion with those who cannot avoid the use of foul language or rely on belligerent harping to try and make a noise.

respect is earned and given to those who can make their point, yet still tolerate viewpoints of others and who accept that not everyone will accept correction when they are blatantly wrong.

anyway, that's their problem. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

I try to find the good in all things, the good in all posts and that is not always easy to do, LOL !
Most post are legit cries for help and understanding about the MA, but sometimes there are personal issues there and those are hard to deal with.
Delusional people and MA seem to go hand-in-hand, but most people are stuck in THEIR own reality and until they can expereince another, that is the only reality they have.

[MysteriousPower]

I try to find the good in all things, the good in all posts and that is not always easy to do, LOL !
Most post are legit cries for help and understanding about the MA, but sometimes there are personal issues there and those are hard to deal with.
Delusional people and MA seem to go hand-in-hand, but most people are stuck in THEIR own reality and until they can expereince another, that is the only reality they have.

Instead of thinking of people as being close minded perhaps you should first consider that they may have experienced it. And from this experience they came to their own educated opinion. This does not necessarily pertain to the seminar in question but seminars like it. I never hear people express this view. People who do not like another's view often think of him as close minded when really he is just different minded.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Instead of thinking of people as being close minded perhaps you should first consider that they may have experienced it. And from this experience they came to their own educated opinion. This does not necessarily pertain to the seminar in question but seminars like it. I never hear people express this view. People who do not like another's view often think of him as close minded when really he is just different minded.

Who said anything about closed minded?

[MysteriousPower]

Who said anything about closed minded?

I think David Jameson did.

[David Jamieson]

Who said anything about closed minded?

she lives in a bubble apparently...you know, seeing as exactly NOBODY said anything of the sort.

we just have to let these trollshido tards go. :p

[Yum Cha]

Dale is up front, and out there. Credit where credit is due. Like everybody, I take him at face value, take what he says to be true to him. He seems to be living the life like a man on a mission. He seems to have the goods, so, does it matter where they came from?

But still, like the saying goes:


Q: "What do you feed a 300lb Canary?"


A: "Whatever it bloody wants."


Hey Dale, :o:o:o

[Lucas]

airfare is pretty cheap. im sure dale can offer this same open door policy at a different time, not just during this event. take a vacation, go let dale school you, get back to us.

if you cant afford the air fare, get a job. it only takes one day, no need for sleeping accomidations. fly in, test, fly out all same day.

[EarthDragon]

lucas,
dont you get it? empty challenges will never be met! this kids got no guts, heres a guy who is trying to discredit someone based SOLEY on his lack of knowledge about it and when confronted , he then comes up with ALL kinds of excuses.

he can be taken less seriously then the wannabe internet tough guys who think thier bada$$ by challenging sifus online whilest hiding in their mom's basement from the safety of thier keyboards.

[taai gihk yahn]

Hey...What is it about people who do Reiki, that they have to work it into the conversation within a minute of meeting them?
"..Oh, and did I tell you? I'm also a Reki Master."
I usually end that conversation by stating, "Oh, so you stayed for the ENTIRE weekend class?"


David Ross as the voice of reason......have we really come to this?!:eek::eek:
part of Dave's contact with Satan stipulates if does this once every 6 years, he won't have to spend his eternity in Hell practicing Tae Bo...


the last seal of the apocalypse has been broken......
I thought that happened the day we chose the name "Martial Science Collective"...

[Lucas]

i was really just being an ass. i do that sometimes. but not maliciously, its more like a jack ass than anything else.

i dont think a challenge was issued though. dale offered up his constant; come to me, see for yourself, then judge.

his offer simply wasnt accepted.

which really i dont see anything wrong with that, but if someone tells me they can do something and i say they cant and they say come watch me, if i dont go watch, i stfu. even if i dont believe it to my core.

that is my breed.

[EarthDragon]

but the only way mysertious power will know any different than simply his assumption that it doesnt work is to go and be proven wrong. SO if he wont even do that so this thread will never end and he will never know if he is right or wrong and continute to live in ignorance...............

[bawang]

just because youre 300 pound monster like from the movie 300 doesnt mean u dont need to explain urself. wots the deal wit non contact qi control?
the seminar doesnt acgtually teach non contact qi control but the description of the seminar says non contact qi control. what up wit that?



im guessing its a push hands seminar lol

[Knifefighter]

but the only way mysertious power will know any different than simply his assumption that it doesnt work is to go and be proven wrong. SO if he wont even do that so this thread will never end and he will never know if he is right or wrong and continute to live in ignorance...............

I think it's pretty clear who is living in ignorance.

[taai gihk yahn]

This is an ideal skill for...body-workers who want to go more deeply into their ability to "touch" the client.
just out of curiosity, why? how?
and who is teaching this? Dr. Painter? is he a licensed healthcare practitioner? if it's not him, then who? TBH, if it's not a licensed healthcare practitioner who has spent at least 1,000 hrs. successfully treating people with verified medical diagnoses using this method, I'd be somewhat skeptical of that claim; but that's just me, I tend to call BS on pretty much anyone who talks about "energy healing" or the like (not saying this is energy work, but it sounds like it is in that realm)...

[Knifefighter]

just out of curiosity, why? how?
and who is teaching this? Dr. Painter? is he a licensed healthcare practitioner? if it's not him, then who? TBH, if it's not a licensed healthcare practitioner who has spent at least 1,000 hrs. successfully treating people with verified medical diagnoses using this method, I'd be somewhat skeptical of that claim; but that's just me, I tend to call BS on pretty much anyone who talks about "energy healing" or the like (not saying this is energy work, but it sounds like it is in that realm)...

The funny thing is, at least there is some scientific evidence for "energy healing", so at the very least, it's less "hoaxful" than the "control your opponent through energy" b.s. they are spewing.

[taai gihk yahn]

The funny thing is, at least there is some scientific evidence for "energy healing", so at the very least, it's less "hoaxful" than the control your opponent b.s. they are spewing.

there is lots of evidence that the autonomic nervous system's natural drive towards homeostasis can be enhanced by very general types of input, which can include light touch or even just the nearby presence of another individual, under circumstances where the patient is predisposed towards having a healing effect (e.g. - lying on a treatment table with essential oils in the room and Enya playing ;) ), and this can certainly help people who are living in a chronic non-resolving generalized inflammatory response (e.g. - fbromyalgia and the like) move into a more parasympathetic tonus, but when it comes to actual anatomically specific structural dysfunction (e.g. - subluxed rib, connective tissue fibrosis), you need to do real manual work to have an effect, otherwise you are living in fantasy land); the problem is that there are a multitude of "techniques" that people think are driving their "energy healing" effect, and they go through all sorts of ridiculous and elaborate protocols, when it really has nothing to do with that at all; and that's why you get all these Johnny-come-lately "healers" who think that they are the shizzle, who have the audacity to impugn the work of actual licensed healthcare practitioners, without their having a clue about what they are doing;
not that I have any issues w that sort of thing myself...;)
addendum: of course, there are a lot of licensed healthcare practitioners who I wouldn't let near me w a 10' pole, so I;m not saying that this is a catch-all bulwark against incompetence...

[lkfmdc]

taai gihk yahn won't let ANYONE touch him, not even his wife.... there was this one time back in college, it involved a lot of alcohol, some petroleum jelly and a bicycle, but I digress

[taai gihk yahn]

taai gihk yahn won't let ANYONE touch him, not even his wife.... there was this one time back in college, it involved a lot of alcohol, some petroleum jelly and a bicycle, but I digress

but be honest, you did enjoy it...


addendum: btw, all kidding aside, it's gonna b 20 yrs. since we graduated in the spring - I think that revelry of sum sort is indicated...

[lkfmdc]

it's gonna b 20 yrs. since we graduated in the spring - I think that revelry of sum sort is indicated...

but, that would mean.... we are OLD! :eek:

:mad:

ok, ok, maybe so, so we SHOULD do something, maybe move people without touching them with chi balls, blow up a chicken at 30 yards, then do some forms and then do push hands where we make eachother cough :D

[taai gihk yahn]

but, that would mean.... we are OLD! :eek:

:mad:

ok, ok, maybe so, so we SHOULD do something, maybe move people without touching them with chi balls, blow up a chicken at 30 yards, then do some forms and then do push hands where we make eachother cough :D

actually, I seem to recall one rather unkempt Armenian-speaking fellow in particular who possessed the ability to enter a room and instantly render everyone senseless just by raising his arms...

[dimethylsea]

airfare is pretty cheap. im sure dale can offer this same open door policy at a different time, not just during this event. take a vacation, go let dale school you, get back to us.

if you cant afford the air fare, get a job. it only takes one day, no need for sleeping accomidations. fly in, test, fly out all same day.

God. What a crock. Cops cops cops. ICU and ER. Bonding out of jail. Legal fees from subsequent suits. Loss of income from the legal fallout. Failing background checks in the future.

There is always a cost associated with venting one's spleen. ALWAYS. Easier just to stay home and make sure none of the trash moves into your area.

[Dragonzbane76]

ok, ok, maybe so, so we SHOULD do something, maybe move people without touching them with chi balls, blow up a chicken at 30 yards, then do some forms and then do push hands where we make eachother cough

sounds like some of the loonies on here, watched to many Dragonballz cartoons when they were kids. Had some "master" show them the "path" and BLAM freakin JEDI's all.

[ShaolinDan]

For those of you who don't believe in invisible forces linking everything in the universe...try looking these up:

1. gravitational force
2. electromagnetic force

Ever since e=mc^2 nothing mystical is really that contrary to our limited knowledge. Perception is the real creator of the universe.

Science is not done. Einstein's laws are still being 'fixed' all the time, and are probably due for a major overhaul in the near future (too many fixes means it ain't right). Modern physics is hardly a reason for skepticism about mysticism, no doubt Einstein would agree.

[David Jamieson]

The trollshido camp doesn't understand much beyond hitting someone in the head or choking them or vice versa.

there is as much value in trying to explain higher ideas to them as there is in trying to teach a monkey calculus.

the trollshido group that has settled in here are here only to antagonize people who practice kung fu or pursue it in their personal lives.

they cannot cognitively understand the bridge to the esoteric that is afforded through many asian martial arts practice and are often too dull witted to even comprehend the entry levels of it.

willful ignorance for the most part, and not worth listening to them drivel on and on about how only hard sparring is of value and rolling and all the other stuff they picked up off of tv over the years.

Meh, they are pollution in the forum and this is what it's come to.

whatever I guess, It's not my forum.

throwingfeces.com would be a better name for the place though. Mission accomplished trollshido neophytes! You are crapping in new places! yay! you're pooping out your fingers.

lol

[Iron_Eagle_76]

The trollshido camp doesn't understand much beyond hitting someone in the head or choking them or vice versa.

there is as much value in trying to explain higher ideas to them as there is in trying to teach a monkey calculus.

the trollshido group that has settled in here are here only to antagonize people who practice kung fu or pursue it in their personal lives.

they cannot cognitively understand the bridge to the esoteric that is afforded through many asian martial arts practice and are often too dull witted to even comprehend the entry levels of it.

willful ignorance for the most part, and not worth listening to them drivel on and on about how only hard sparring is of value and rolling and all the other stuff they picked up off of tv over the years.

Meh, they are pollution in the forum and this is what it's come to.

whatever I guess, It's not my forum.

throwingfeces.com would be a better name for the place though. Mission accomplished trollshido neophytes! You are crapping in new places! yay! you're pooping out your fingers.

lol

Please tell me your joking, right. I mean come on man, you troll here as much as anyone, so if your going to start calling people on here trolls, at least man up and admit your faults as well.:D

[Dragonzbane76]

wow who pis$ed in your cheerios this morning? ;)

[Dragonzbane76]

found this video of a kung fu guy demonstrating techs. on a person that is "supposedly" doing MMA tactics. Funny thing is the guy is probably someone that posts on here. Sifu Rudy or something.

anyways, I didn't listen to it just watched the techs. he was demo.
Thoughts??

He's demonstrating techniques that will not work against someone in a full on environment. Over and over this is posted in video and other segments. seriously hooking the jaw, lunge stance to keep from getting taken down???

anyways make your own commments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQFFpA0C4LU

[Dragonzbane76]

wing chun vs. mma early UFC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3mBXmseypI&feature=related

[Knifefighter]

found this video of a kung fu guy demonstrating techs. on a person that is "supposedly" doing MMA tactics. Funny thing is the guy is probably someone that posts on here. Sifu Rudy or something.

anyways, I didn't listen to it just watched the techs. he was demo.
Thoughts??

He's demonstrating techniques that will not work against someone in a full on environment. Over and over this is posted in video and other segments. seriously hooking the jaw, lunge stance to keep from getting taken down???

anyways make your own commments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQFFpA0C4LU

Joe Rogan said it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9L5vr3HKdE

[bawang]

that happens when u train a martial art created by male prostitutes that imitate hand movements of village magic rituals

why do white ppls do kung fu ??

[Dragonzbane76]

why do white ppls do kung fu again??

just to pi$$ the chinese off. :p

[MysteriousPower]

found this video of a kung fu guy demonstrating techs. on a person that is "supposedly" doing MMA tactics. Funny thing is the guy is probably someone that posts on here. Sifu Rudy or something.

anyways, I didn't listen to it just watched the techs. he was demo.
Thoughts??

He's demonstrating techniques that will not work against someone in a full on environment. Over and over this is posted in video and other segments. seriously hooking the jaw, lunge stance to keep from getting taken down???

anyways make your own commments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQFFpA0C4LU

Joe Rogan was talking about these people. This is what kills me. People like Sifu Rudy and Novel Bell are considered skilled...hell they are considered to be "fighters" or atleast people that can fight. But then they put this garbage up showing techniques against people not really trying to hit them. The guy can barely move his feet.

Kung fu is turning sadder and sadder.

[David Jamieson]

that happens when u train a martial art created by male prostitutes that imitate hand movements of village magic rituals

why do white ppls do kung fu ??

Why do Chinese wear suits and ties?

Why do Chinese play volleyball?

Why do Chinese like Justin Beiber? :p

[bawang]

i dont think its turning sadder less and less people are doing kung fu. which makes me very happy

Why do Chinese wear suits and ties?

Why do Chinese play volleyball?

Why do Chinese like Justin Beiber? :p

chinese people dont do that. we have better things to do, like takin over africa.

[MysteriousPower]

i dont think its turning sadder less and less people are doing kung fu. which makes me very happy


chinese people dont do that. we have better things to do, like takin over africa.

I guess from that perspective it is true. I am just sad that my old teacher will have to close his school. I wish the best for him but no one wants to do forms anymore.

[bawang]

north american martial arts is the fringe of chinese amrtial arts. wing chun , hung guys, cabbage lee fut, white pubis, comepletely unknown. and chiense martial arts in general isnt even that good.

your teacher chose a life of no education, no hardwork, just cheap easy money ripping off people exploiting the bruce lee craze, he paid the price now he goes down with the sinking ship.

teaching kung fu takes 0 effort. just lots of ego stroking and manipulating and sweet talk. get a real job.

[David Jamieson]

i dont think its turning sadder less and less people are doing kung fu. which makes me very happy

yes, less people playing around is better.

more people serious and dedicated to the art form is better.

gotta weed out the play fighters, the posers and the lazy.

only the determined will attain kungfu, but having less people will clear out a lot of distractions and impediments.

[David Jamieson]

i dont think its turning sadder less and less people are doing kung fu. which makes me very happy


chinese people dont do that. we have better things to do, like takin over africa.

China isn't allowed to do anything but enslave it's populace and have them make shoes and iPods for us white people over here.

and, to make sure the slavery goes on, they can't even make enough money to own the phones and shoes they make for us.

Africa is already owned by white people. All that's left for the Chinese is Iran. We don't want that, you guys can have it.

[Dragonzbane76]

Africa is already owned by white people. All that's left for the Chinese is Iran. We don't want that, you guys can have it.

haha so wrong on so many levels. :p

[bawang]

lol noe ur rong. weve been taking over africa for 10 years havent u heard

more importantly, why do white peopel have curly pubic hair? its a mystery
is it flammable?

[Dragonzbane76]

lol noe ur rong. weve been taking over africa for 10 years havent u heard

nope... have at it kind sir.

[Drake]

lol noe ur rong. weve been taking over africa for 10 years havent u heard

Weird. I thought you guys were hitting up Afghanistan. Mineral deposits, stuff like that.

[bawang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHYeLMU_CAc

the hive mind told me to go but i told him im busy, maybe next week

[David Jamieson]

lol noe ur rong. weve been taking over africa for 10 years havent u heard

more importantly, why do white peopel have curly pubic hair? its a mystery
is it flammable?

Well, you've been grubbing around the latrines but really you're not getting much.

[omarthefish]

China isn't allowed to do anything but enslave it's populace and have them make shoes and iPods for us white people over here.

and, to make sure the slavery goes on, they can't even make enough money to own the phones and shoes they make for us.


Yes and no.

China has produced more millionaires than any nation other than the US.

More cars were sold in China last year than in America.

Almost all of my middle school students (in central China) have cellphones.

A Mac store recently opened up in town.

The folks actually making those iPhones maybe can't afford them but the market price for a new iPhone in Xi'an is more than in the states. They sell for about 6000 RMB our here. (that's about $900 USD! :eek:)

So actually, those with money in China have plenty of it and while they are a small percentage of the population, in absolute numbers the rival the US.

[MysteriousPower]

north american martial arts is the fringe of chinese amrtial arts. wing chun , hung guys, cabbage lee fut, white pubis, comepletely unknown. and chiense martial arts in general isnt even that good.

your teacher chose a life of no education, no hardwork, just cheap easy money ripping off people exploiting the bruce lee craze, he paid the price now he goes down with the sinking ship.

teaching kung fu takes 0 effort. just lots of ego stroking and manipulating and sweet talk. get a real job.

He actually does not make any money. He, like many tcma teachers, make just enough to pay the rent. Making a little money is important but he has not even made a little.


David,
You talk about China from your jaded point of view. Let me talk about your country from my American point of view. Canada coddled its 20 citizens. People who cannot make it in America move to Canada for free healthcare. Everyone from everywhere always say they want to come to the United States. They never say they want to go to Canada to live. Take a look at your population for God's sake. 35 million people? No wonder you never fight any wars...your whole country would be wiped out. No offense to Canadian's in general but David should not diss other countries when he lives in...oh nevermind. No country dissing pwease.

[Dragonzbane76]

alpha centauri.
__________________

all the "realz deadly" kung fu guys own that one all ready. :rolleyes:

[EarthDragon]

mysterious
now your going to give us your opinion on world politics and speak bad about and entire country? God the internet allows any idiot to have a say even if its uneducated and lacking certain um facts, this just keeps getting better and better.

[bawang]

i was just generalizing man. even if ur teacher doesnt make much, he teaches for money and puts him self in a position of pwoer. most students are prolly distant and dont really care.
i learned for free and i dont have masters, i have frends and brothers. if i find my old teacher i give him half my money i think hes on welfare now. r u willing to do that noe.

good thing learning free is you know the truth. theres no NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS IN OUR LINEAGE WE DO THIS you are free from all that.

[MysteriousPower]

mysterious
now your going to give us your opinion on world politics and speak bad about and entire country? God the internet allows any idiot to have a say even if its uneducated and lacking certain um facts, this just keeps getting better and better.

You need to crap on David Jameson for dissing China as well. No double standards please. If it is okay for him to generalize China than I can do so as well.

[MysteriousPower]

i was just generalizing man. even if ur teacher doesnt make much, he teaches for money and puts him self in a position of pwoer. most students are prolly distant and dont really care.
i learned for free and i dont have masters, i have frends and brothers. if i find my old teacher i give him half my money i think hes on welfare now. r u willing to do that noe.

good thing learning free is you know the truth. theres no NO YOU HAVE TO DO THIS IN OUR LINEAGE WE DO THIS you are free from all that.

I still do things for my old teacher. Bam!

[EarthDragon]

LOl oh sorry MP I didnt even read DJ posts, just yours , thats my fault entierly, allow me to go back and re read

[bawang]

I still do things for my old teacher. Bam!

noice. wot style kung fu did u learn mang. i do manly badass thai cheese.

[MysteriousPower]

noice. wot style kung fu did u learn mang. i do manly badass thai cheese.

I do not seriously believe though that it is bad to teach and make money off of it. I have a problem when students are misled.

I trained in too much bs. The names do not matter since they were all forms and easy training. I might as well have studied Chinese Seal Kung fu.

[Dragonzbane76]

thought it was wombat thai jititsu? what you cross training now bawang...??:p

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I do not seriously believe though that it is bad to teach and make money off of it. I have a problem when students are misled.

I trained in too much bs. The names do not matter since they were all forms and easy training. I might as well have studied Chinese Seal Kung fu.

So long as there is not a load of BS sold to get someone in the door, there is nothing wrong with charging for martial arts instruction. Why should there be? Do people who go to a regular gym complain that it should be free, what is the difference? BS is BS, doesn't matter if it's free or takes your entire paycheck.

[IronWeasel]

For those of you who don't believe in invisible forces linking everything in the universe...try looking these up:

1. gravitational force.



We use this invisible force in every class!

[SPJ]

to see is to believe

to feel/touch is to know or understand.


----

[David Jamieson]

I was just taking the pi55 in bawangs yellow fever campaign for a larf.

I don't believe in any of the stuff i just said.

Man, I wish some people could understand parody... :p

[David Jamieson]

LOl oh sorry MP I didnt even read DJ posts, just yours , thats my fault entierly, allow me to go back and re read

see above. parody.

[bawang]

so whats the deal with no touch qi control

[MysteriousPower]

so whats the deal with no touch qi control

They are going to be making the people flinch.

[EarthDragon]

obviously, the problem now a days its up to the students to practice what is shown to a level the they are ABLE to perfrom the techniques taught to them,. This is the problem with most schools. They rush through thier ciriculums so fast, that the students dont have enough time on any one tech, to work before he is shown the next one.
This is why people discredit TMA they havent put enough time in to make it work, then they blame the entire system and say kung fu isnt good for fighting like MMA LOL

bawang

so whats the deal with no touch qi control
it is absolutly possible to control ones own qi as well as control others in a sublte way, I do this on every qi gong patient I treat. Its not like what most peopel exaggerate. You can change a persons energy field just by simple manipulation, my qiugong teacher cures many illnesses, by rebalancing thier stagnat qi in the local meriedians, this can be done with needles, hands, machine, or qi manipulation.

[MysteriousPower]

Why are you starting trouble by bring back up this old thread? :)

[MysteriousPower]

obviously, the problem now a days its up to the students to practice what is shown to a level the they are ABLE to perfrom the techniques taught to them,. This is the problem with most schools. They rush through thier ciriculums so fast, that the students dont have enough time on any one tech, to work before he is shown the next one.
This is why people discredit TMA they havent put enough time in to make it work, then they blame the entire system and say kung fu isnt good for fighting like MMA LOL

bawang

it is absolutly possible to control ones own qi as well as control others in a sublte way, I do this on every qi gong patient I treat. Its not like what most peopel exaggerate. You can change a persons energy field just by simple manipulation, my qiugong teacher cures many illnesses, by rebalancing thier stagnat qi in the local meriedians, this can be done with needles, hands, machine, or qi manipulation.

You had better watch your language meaning how you word these things. Your qi gong teacher cures diseases? He and you can be sued for making such statements.

[bawang]

because this guy is silent when people bring up problems with his teacher and what he teach. cutting pasting eads in photos? wtf?
all he does is brag about his kilt and how strong he is, then someone ask whats with the weird sh1t hes teaching he just say "YEAH COME FIGHT ME PUNK UR SCARE IM BIG AND STRONG"

[MysteriousPower]

because this guy is silent when people bring up problems with his teacher and what he teach. cutting pasting eads in photos? wtf?
all he does is brag about his kilt and how strong he is, then someone ask whats with the weird sh1t hes teaching he just say "YEAH COME FIGHT ME PUNK UR SCARE"

His door is always open bawang. He may not be able to control you from a distance but he will smash a garbage can over your head to shut you up. Wait, maybe the seminar is about throwing projectiles. That is technically attacking from a distance. I am flinging my qi at you.

I understand what you are saying. He is a big guy and talks as tough as all of us over the internet. The truth is that he cannot defend the ad for his seminar because he knows it is faulty.

[bawang]

i just think hyping yourself up has no honor. people complain they attract nutcases but they keep advertising like this. they bring it on themself.

[EarthDragon]

MP

You had better watch your language meaning how you word these things. Your qi gong teacher cures diseases? He and you can be sued for making such statements.

there not statments, she runs a clinic in roswell cancer institute here in NY as well as a linic in Beijing and Zurich. she has cure many illnesses , i.e bells palsy, lou gerigs, crabeh (sp? , tumors, shrank enlarged prostrates, sick cell anemia, the lsit goes on and on.

[MysteriousPower]

i just think hyping yourself up has no honor. people complain they attract nutcases but they keep advertising like this. they bring it on themself.

The nutcase crowd commands some money. It does not hurt to milk this crowd for cash but it hurts to talk about secret powers.

[bawang]

it gay every time people ask about suspicous problem about his style he flexes his bisceps and say come challenge him. how does brawling with someone smaller than u prove u have qi powers?
how does some 300 pound guy throwing haymakers and knocks some guy out prove qi control and internal power?
thats why after dale is gone his style will fall apart. he never be honest about what he teaches and just rely on himself being strong so he can intimidate peopel and teach whatever he wants.

[David Jamieson]

The nutcase crowd commands some money. It does not hurt to milk this crowd for cash but it hurts to talk about secret powers.

really? tell it to the churches man. You wanna talk about the promotion of secret powers, religion is the greatest scammer of them all on that front. lol

who cares if some idiot gives up his cash because he actually thinks he can make someone vibrate by looking at them. lol

I have a bigger problem with the mind control exercised by government/media/religion.

[MysteriousPower]

it gay every time people ask about suspicous problem about his style he flexes his bisceps and say come challenge him. how does brawling with someone smaller than u prove u have qi powers?

It does not show super qi powers. What it does show is that a macho immaturity exists in him. He looks like a big guy and might be able to handle himself especially against someone much smaller than him. You are right that it does not prove his qi powers but he cannot prove them. His only option is to use mafia like intimidation to try and shut people up.

If I wanted to prove my qi powers I would put up a video but I do not have qi powers

[MysteriousPower]

really? tell it to the churches man. You wanna talk about the promotion of secret powers, religion is the greatest scammer of them all on that front. lol

who cares if some idiot gives up his cash because he actually thinks he can make someone vibrate by looking at them. lol

I have a bigger problem with the mind control exercised by government/media/religion.

Total agreement here, David. Religion is the opiate of the masses. Whenever I go to church I MIGHT donate a couple of bucks just out of respect for the shelter/food they provide that morning. But I also choose not to in most cases. Of course they try to lead us in the media and the government. But it is not total mind control. All the people that voted for Obama were going to vote democratic anyway because they hated Bush so much. The left wing media just pushed it over the edge. Fuk the government. Let us make money and spend it how we want.

[EarthDragon]

MP
you really need to let this go, you need to stop talking about other people in this case Dale Dugas. you called him out, he then invited you FREE of charge to PROVE it to you and you rejected and made up lame excuses why you couldnt go, end of story.

to rant on after you were called out is very childish and reminds us of the kid who was getting beatr up and talks smack after his mom puts him in the car and drives off.

[MysteriousPower]

MP
you really need to let this go, you need to stop talking about other people in this case Dale Dugas. you called him out, he then invited you FREE of charge to PROVE it to you and you rejected and made up lame excuses why you couldnt go, end of story.

to rant on after you were called out is very childish and reminds us of the kid who was getting beatr up and talks smack after his mom puts him in the car and drives off.

Fine. But you have to let it go first. Stop posting on my threads and following me around like a hippy who wants to have drugged out sex with me so she can brag to her friends that she banged a kung fu rock star. After you stop doing that then I will try to let it go. You harp just like I do accept it is harping in the other direction.

[bawang]

instead of just explaining what exactly hes teaching at the seminar about qi powers dale tells him to take a airplane ticket and fight him. whos rediculous here

[EarthDragon]

?????????????????:confused: really dude? man you got issues

[bawang]

he didnt bring this up i bring this up. after so long time stil no explanation exactly what he taught at the seminar about qi control.

i remember john f springer this internet kung fu badass thing doesnt impres me.

[MysteriousPower]

instead of just explaining what exactly hes teaching at the seminar about qi powers dale tells him to take a airplane ticket and fight him. whos rediculous here

You are completely right. Ha.

[MysteriousPower]

he didnt bring this up i bring this up. after so long time stil no explanation exactly what he taught at the seminar about qi control.

just because someone post on internet a lot doesnt mean legit. you are not your post count or how many years ago u join a forum. i havent forgotten internet kung fu badass john f springer.

John Springer? Did that guy just get beat up in a parking lot by a bjj guy? He was another one of those ridiculous mantis guys.

[MysteriousPower]

?????????????????:confused: really dude? man you got issues

Lead by example. Bawang brought this thread back up. I was ready to let it go but he brought it back to life. Yell at him. He is Canadian. He will shoot you with his paint gun.

[bawang]

john f springer did all those badass kung fu acts. he was 250 pounds 6 feet tall, he was bald, he filmed iron palm vids, he was a member of the hung men, and he says he takes challenges.

[Drake]

I have a fierce stare.

[bawang]

the only guys worse are the iron lotus guys. they do shotokan karate but sell iron palm dvds. wtf

[MysteriousPower]

the only guys worse are the iron lotus guys. they do shotokan karate but sell iron palm dvds. wtf

If I had the time I would make an iron palm video. They can be faked and I would never have to teach anyone. I would be making money for not doing anything.

[David Jamieson]

I think Dale explained what the seminar was in regards to the magnetic work.

I also think that maybe you should read that again.

I believe the invite was due to the recalcitrant belligerence that continued from MP despite the explanation provided.

you cannot insult someone and expect to walk off scott free.

You gotta pay your karmic debt somewhere.

sometimes, it's your own anger that causes you to miscalculate something and you mess up, other times it's a direct confrontation with that which you have done wrong by.

What comes around, goes around may sound like a platitude, but after a while, it is indeed seemingly true.

For the most part, all the harm you cause will come back to you.