Bajiquan

[omarthefish]

Here's a clip of dabaji filmed in China.

http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1PWI98KWM1TWZ2U184STHTPTHB

Any comments?

...edit: wow. 16 views and no comments. So are you guys just checking the thread and not downloading?

[TAO YIN]

Wo xi huan zhe Baji yin wei wo xiang ta you li liang. Yuan liang Wo. Wo shuo de bu hao.

Anyways, I like this clip. Whatever form that is, it has some excellent lock, break, and throw combos. There is an excellent take down and break there too. Also, the last four moves are cool. I don't know if this makes sense, but I kind of see some Lost Track with some Southern stuff going on there. Definetely different than the Wu Shu Ba Ji stuff.

[omarthefish]

lol.

oops...my edit was simultaneous with your post.

The form is Dabaji. The video is from a "traditional performance forms friendship tournament" I saw in China. What do you train, Tao Yin?

[SPJ]

Cool clip.

Good Job.

There are a lot of noises in the backgroud. I wished the camera may be closer.

The stamping feet and hand movements started and ended at the same time. Shou Dao Jiao Dao

The flows of steps and directions. Well done.

The whole body Jin issuing. Cheng Jin.

Every move started with soft and Nei Qi and ended in the hard way.

We used Wuuh Hmm more than Haah.

Nan Quan or southern boxing used a lot of Haah.

Use the voice to assist the force. Hua Sheng Yi Zhu Li.

According to Master Liu Yun Qiao, Ba Ji focuses on internal or Nei Qi and Nei Jin.

Wai Gang Nei Ruo. Ba Ji is soft internally and hard outwardly.

[SPJ]

Here is a link;

Da Ba Ji (http://mleng.com/baji_association/library/dabaji.WMV)

Have fun.

[count]

Originally posted by SPJ
Here is a link;

Da Ba Ji (http://mleng.com/baji_association/library/dabaji.WMV)

Have fun.
Thanks, that was fun!

(are there any piqua clips in that library? I can't read it.)

Comments on the original post are in the other thread.;)

[SPJ]

It is a site devoted to Master Liu Yun Qiao in Hongkong.

There are good articles on Ba Ji, Liu He Tang Lang etc.

The video library does not have Pi Qua.

Actually, it was a link you provided in Ba Gua footwork thread.

There are many good Chinese articles in the site.

But it would take a while to digest. It would take even more time to translate them into English.

There are some translations of Master Liu's articles before. But the translators are usually not trained in CMA.

[count]

Ya, I gathered as much. Thanks for the effort anyway. I have a major interest in piqua these days. Baji, not so much :p

Omar translated an excellent article on Liu and our bagua. Maybe he could post it here, or I'll dig it up and post on the internal board later if he doesn't mind.

Thanks again.

[Shaolinlueb]

both those videos are nice. thanks for the link.

[TAO YIN]

Omar,

Hello. I train Yau Kung Mun. I was mainly impressed with that clip because the practitioner was definetely issuing, as SPJ stated, "Cheng Jin." This is something that is somewhat difficult to spot in a video clip I think. However, this practitioner was clearly issuing crip strikes with decent usage of yin/yang concepts. Many people are either too much of one or too much of the other. It's difficult to keep it natural and let the two wield themselves together as they already were before. Anyways, just my er jiao.

Happy New Year Soon To All,

Tao

[Shaolinlueb]

i thought it said bagua and i posted it on another board as bagua. :doh:

[omarthefish]

So where'f you post it? I'd like to see what they're saying. I'm even kind of curious how quickly someone recignizes it for what it is....unless you already went back and told them...

[baji-fist]

SPJ,

Excellent clip! I have seen the whole video before from my gongfu brother. These guys definitely got the baji essence. The guy in the front left played an excellent Baji Lian Huan Quan later on the video.

[BaldMonk]

Omar,

I really like that form. Different flavor than ours but all the things that make Baji Baji were there. It's fluid but solid.

Peace

BaldMonk

[count]

Hey Bald Monk, nice to 'read ya'. How's training?

Did you have a chance to see these clips yet?
10 Baji forms + 1 longfist (http://johnswang.com/sc1/)

[BaldMonk]

Count,

Training is going really good. At the school we're training Jing Gao Ba Shr intensively and The four basic Piqua lines. At work I'm running an informal workout where I get a lotta good martial artists from other styles to cross hands with. Then there's the usual getting ready for Chinese new year thing.

It's interesting you listed that link. I was just there. The flavor is similar to my cousin's in Boston.

I'm gonna give you a call either today or tommorow so we can chat about your bruises:D

Peace
BaldMonk

PS have you check out Paolo's website?

[count]

LOL, my bruises are healing fine, but the circle and name is a reminder of the revenge to come. bwahahhahha.:D

I believe most of those clips are third generation Wu Tang. Quite a banging in the 10th one. :eek:

I'll check out Paolo's site. I haven't seen it for a couple of months.

Talk to you later.

[omarthefish]

Thanks SPJ, Bald Monk, TAO YIN and others.

It was particularly nice to get the positive comments from the couple of you who don't know me and didn't know that it was me. I would have enjoyed it if Count and/or Bald Monk hadn't blown my cover so quickly. I put it up on emptyflower where everyone knows me and my username is my Chiense name so anyone who understands Chinese would here my name being announced at the beggining of the clip, but I don't post a lot here so I thought it might be fun to get some "unbiased" reviews.

Either way, I really like all the discussion it started and more than that the flurry of Baji clips that other people have put up in the past week has been very cool.



:cool:

[BaldMonk]

Omar,

Sorry for busting you out. We didn't really though. :D

Hey Count,

Where were those clips from? I mean I know they were from John Wang but I didn't realize those guys were my kung fu cousins.

Peace
BaldMonk

[count]

baldMonk,

Check your PM.

The Baji families are all cousins.;)

[blackmantis]

Is Bajiquan considered to be an internal martial art? I've always thought of it as an internal system but some people (B.K.Frantzis) describe it as an internal/external system. If this is the case then so is Xingyiquan surely?

I've also heard that originally Baji and Bagua were the same art and that they separated. I don't know how true this is as I believe the "ba" relates to different things. Does anyone have any comments about this?

Any information anyone?

Many thanks,

S

[Mortal1]

My Sifu said it is internal/external too.

[gfx]

There's no such thing as internal/external styles.

Bajiquan is a style with sophesticated power generation method that is similar to XingYi. Baji has nothing to do with BaGua, although some say that XingYI and Baji has the same root.

Baji ( Eight extreme ) was originally called "Bazi" ( rack ), it later changed it's written characters over to "Baji", which is pronounced the samed in HeiBei dialect. This is probably done to make the style sound more intelligent. i.e "Rack Fist" vs "Eight Extreme Fist". It's just a name, don't read too deeply into it.

[Mortal1]

There's no such thing as internal/external styles.

lol Why because you say so?

I respect your response but a little condescending. no?

Thanks for enlightening us. :p

[count]

There's no such thing as internal/external styles.

lol Why because you say so?

I respect your response but a little condescending. no?

Thanks for enlightening us. :p
No, because there are only internal and external training methods. Not styles. Baji has internal and external training methods depending on the teachers level of experience.

[blackmantis]

So how are Xingyi and Baji different?

[Three Harmonies]

"Internal / External" were terms coined by Sun Lu Tang at the begginning of the century. Prior to that no one used these terms, and even today the overwhleming majority of Chinese (or those who have trained in China) do not use this nomenclature (unless they have been conditioned by the western BS attitude of qi balls from outer space and what not). So no, not because he says so.....because there is not "internal/external"! Principles are principles. Once you are relaxed, and have proper body mechanics and structure power is generated without interruption.
As for Bagua and Baji being the same.....I think you are confusing Piqua and Baji. They were originally the same art, and had a split somewhere down the line. Bagua is totally different in falvor than Baji.
Baji / Xing Yi being the same...... I still train Baji on my own, but do not teach it, nor focus much on it anymore because I have found the same (if not more) apps, power, etc. in my Xing Yi training. They are certainly identical, but unique none the less. Many argue that one or the other were the root of the opposite, but I was not alive hundreds of years ago, so I cannot comment on such a thing.
Hope this helps.
Jake

[Brad]

was originally called "Bazi" ( rack )
"rake" not "rack"

[SPJ]

Yes. as if you rake the leaves or some dirts etc.

I truly enjoy Ba Ji over all. Everything is so apparent.

Tong Bei/Pi Gua are also very cool. Altho, part of aging, my flexibility is waning.

Ba Ji was the most popular style in Kuo Shu Guan era in the 1930's.

Tong Bei 24 hands were part of the condensed forms in Kuo Shu Guan era, too.

Tong Bei plus Shuai Jiao is most interesting.

:)

[RAF]

Jake, just as a side note, Sun Lu Tang also learned baji in his youth. Its in Tim Cartmell's translation of his Xing Yi.

Baji also also has a strong affinity with Chen's pao chui or cannonfist.

The training methods seem to overlap, in my experience, among baji, xing yi and Chen's taiiji's pao chui.

However they all have their unique way of delivering power---baji seems to also have a lot of elbow work and kao which tends to blend well with the other two.

As far as bagua goes, it not only marches to the beat of a different drummer, it has its own orchestra and musical scale.

[Three Harmonies]

Very true!
Jake :D

[blackmantis]

Is Tongbei related or similar to Baji? Is Tongbei a Shaolin system?

[SPJ]

Tong Bei means extended back or arm.

There are many styles sharing the same name.

Yes, Shaolin has Tong Bi sets. Mantis has Tong Bei branch etc. There are also southern Tong Bi etc.

However, what I meant is the style made popular from the Bull or Niu street in Bei Jing. There are several styles. White Ape dating back to the warring states periods some 2500 years ago.

Tong Bei 24 hand sets were composed to comprise several related styles in Kuo Shu Guan in 1930's.

:)

[gfx]

TongBei is a predecessor to Pigua. Pigua is considered a complimentary style to Baji. TongBei is not a shaolin style. Although Shaolin did absorb its methods into its system.

Oh yeah, it is "rake" not "rack", picky picky. :p

[blackmantis]

How do Pigua and Baji differ?

[count]

How do Pigua and Baji differ?
Baji's main focus is on short too no range power. Explosive power from inside. Piqua is long power. Not necessarily long range power, but long power from a short distance. Piqua's power is more from whipping the spine as opposed to baji's compression and expansion of the spine. Where baji uses the body and elbows as primary weapons, Piqua starts with the palms to open you up and get inside. They are a perfect compliment to each other. As Jake said in the excellent post above, baji and piqua split 100's of years ago. Than the baji master, Li Shu Wen re-married them. Baji is a powerful system, but sometimes a bigger, stronger opponent has an advantage. Each are excellent systems on their own, but together, piqua is the "great equalizer".

[RAF]

Also the pigua incorporates a lot of hand training with regard to dog skin or bag usage. You can see some of this on Adam Hsu's tapes, however, palm or hand training is sort of a misnomer in that the strikes are nothing like those found in karate. The waist generates the strike through arm to the hand.

There is a little more to the baji/pigua training relationship and alternating training times. Personally I found the pigua a lot more areobic---they have double kicks, a lot of slapping the ground in a back bow stance and some single routine kicking not normally found in baji but I got to be clear here---we do have a double heel kicks in baji as a single moving exercizes and also very interesting side kick we term a scorpion kick the first is in da baji and the latter is in baji lian huan, the linking form). Hummm, I take back the areobic bit---its all "kick-your-ass" training.:)

[blackmantis]

It's really appreciated to have such an interesting insight- thank you!:) It seems that Pigua is far more rare than Baji and that they are often taught together. The Wutan organisation in Taiwan seems to do a lot of Baji-does anyone know if they do Pigua too?

I didn't know that they had lots of kicks-I'd always assumed that they were very hand orientated systems. Anyway, thank you for being so insightful!

S

[count]

Wu Tan in Taiwan would be where my teacher learned his baji and piqua. RAF's teacher too. I don't know who is teaching in Taiwan now, but I'm guessing they have a program that includes piqua.:p

[RAF]

Blackmantis:

I don't know of anyone in Wutan(g) who teaches pigua zhang as a separate system, that is, if you walked in and said "all I want is pigua,"I don't think that would happen. However, you might get baji without any pigua, at least in the first year or so. However, I started pigua training exercises the first day I started with ;my teacher---we didn't know they were pigua, but that is what they were. Before we got any forms, we did a number of stationary and moving pigua postures and one type of breathig exercise.

I have seen, from the mainland, pigua systems that contain far more forms and weapons that is practiced at the Wutan(g). My guess is that everything in the pigua wutan(g) is solid basic training i.e. jiben gong.

There are schools on the mainland that teach baji without any pigua and they do just fine and there is pigua that does not have baji which also does just fine. Its like ordering steak, lobster, or "Turf & Surf"---it all tastes good!:cool:

I understand that Adam Hsu is teaching in Taiwan and also there is a general that Liu trained and he ist teaching baji and pigua---he has books and tapes out but they are all in Chinese and the baji tape has the goofy sound effects!

[SPJ]

Ba Ji and Pi Gua by itself is a complete style.

There are many open hand sets/forms and weapon sets.

Pi Gua has several styles or branches, too.

There were many new and good hand and weapon sets composed in the 1930' and early 40's in the Kuo Shu Guan era.

And some Tong Bei steps mixed with Pi Gua hand methods in hand and weapon sets.

Everything was interrupted by Japanese invasion and civil war between the communists and the nationalists.

Culture revolution persecuted a lot of TMA people for over a decade.

People had to practice in private and risking losing everything.

---

:mad:

[Mortal1]

Anyone have any cool baji clips?

[omarthefish]

*ssssshhhhhh* don't tell anyone.

http://media.putfile.com/dabaji lol

:o . . . :D

[Aeturnal]

does anyone know about any good baji schools in nyc? also does anyone have any good info on its effectiveness or know of any recent fighters who have put it to good use...thanks :)

[Li Ma-Keh]

Hi,..I don't know of a teacher in NYC',..but, you can probably find that info.' and more by contacting Si-Fu Tony Yang ,(Master Yang Shu-Ton),from Canton,Ohio. Go to; www.wutangcenter.com He is very good at Ba-Ji Chwen! Li Ma-Keh

[ngokfei]

I believe it was a sifu su yu chang of the Wu Tang group who used to teach in nyc.

here is the link to david chiang's school in queens
http://www.wutang.org/

[B-Rad]

Did Su Yu Chang move away?

[ngokfei]

sifu su's website

http://pachitanglang.com/

Mike Martello was Sifu Su's representative in NYC. Actually he opened up an actual full time school but something happened and it closed down. I don't know who is running the NYC club anymore since Mike Martello left the school. Here's his bio.
http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/mmartello.htm

[street_fighter]

I can't seem to find any clear information on baji, and its driving me nuts. A few questions. Are there (what are the) different branches? Who are the current "lineage holders" or bearers? How many forms does baji have? Any good sites with info would be appreciated. A lineage tree/list would be great.

thanks

[ChinoXL]

in the baji system .. there's 2 forms.. big baji and small baji :D

[omarthefish]

Are there (what are the) different branches?


Yes. Lots. A few that come to mind:

- The Wu family headed by Wu Lianzhi.
- "Huo style" from Huo Diange.
- The Wutan organization founded by Liu Yunqqiao
- Zhou Jingxuan. He's up on youtube and not affiliated with any of the 2 I just listed AFAIK.
- My own branch which while close to Wutan is NOT the same. We come down from Li Shuwen via Zhang Xiangwu.

Who are the current "lineage holders" or bearers?

The most notable are Tony Yang in the Wutan along with a few of Liu's other disciples like Kurt Wong and one or two others who's names I can't remember.

In Xi'an I am a lineage holder myself! heehee :p I'm under Li Suiyin who learned from Zhang Xiangwu.

Wu Lianzhi claims to be the "grandmaster of all Baji", the "Zhangmenren" but really he's just the head of the Wu family. Wu Zhong was the earliest known Baji master that we can trace anyones lineage back to today. The style predates him but everyone before him was just kind of speculation. Wu Zhong himself only uses nicknames for his teachers as opposed to real names.

A lineage tree/list would be great.


The style is not unified enough for a list like that to be meaningfull. You are unlikely to find such a thing that contains anything more than the direct line from Wu Zhong down to a particular person in the branch. Most people don't bother recording the lineage of the other branches.

How many forms does baji have?

For the most part:

- Xiao Baji
- Da Baji
- Baji Lianhuan
- Jin Gang Ba Da Zhao
- Baji Duida (2 man set)
- Spear
- Sabre
- Sword (only in certain branches)

One other fairly rare form I forget the name of, "Ying tang ba shi" ? ??? I really can't remember. Essentially it's just the first 5 I listed. Lots of people here and there have additional stuff but those 5 are the core curriculum.

[Eddie]

Ive seen Baji teachers who list forms as Yi Lu (first) and Er Lu (Second). I take it it only refers to Xiao baji and dabaji?

you know of any videos of the baji saber form?

[omarthefish]

I've got one on my hard drive but I'm not putting it online.

:p

[Eddie]

just curious how different the baji saber would be from any other saber form. does it have any stylistic charactoristics or is it pretty much your avarage shaolin saber form?

[Mengcunman]

tiliudao , baji saber has similarities with other saber forms. Of course.

TBut the power generation from Baji also finds his way here.

And that makes it something on its own.


I must say that i do prefer the unarmed form.


About the xiao jia.... I think there are six forms of Xiao Jia.

[street_fighter]

Are there (what are the) different branches?


Yes. Lots. A few that come to mind:

- The Wu family headed by Wu Lianzhi.
- "Huo style" from Huo Diange.
- The Wutan organization founded by Liu Yunqqiao
- Zhou Jingxuan. He's up on youtube and not affiliated with any of the 2 I just listed AFAIK.
- My own branch which while close to Wutan is NOT the same. We come down from Li Shuwen via Zhang Xiangwu.

Who are the current "lineage holders" or bearers?

The most notable are Tony Yang in the Wutan along with a few of Liu's other disciples like Kurt Wong and one or two others who's names I can't remember.

In Xi'an I am a lineage holder myself! heehee :p I'm under Li Suiyin who learned from Zhang Xiangwu.

Wu Lianzhi claims to be the "grandmaster of all Baji", the "Zhangmenren" but really he's just the head of the Wu family. Wu Zhong was the earliest known Baji master that we can trace anyones lineage back to today. The style predates him but everyone before him was just kind of speculation. Wu Zhong himself only uses nicknames for his teachers as opposed to real names.

A lineage tree/list would be great.


The style is not unified enough for a list like that to be meaningfull. You are unlikely to find such a thing that contains anything more than the direct line from Wu Zhong down to a particular person in the branch. Most people don't bother recording the lineage of the other branches.

How many forms does baji have?

For the most part:

- Xiao Baji
- Da Baji
- Baji Lianhuan
- Jin Gang Ba Da Zhao
- Baji Duida (2 man set)
- Spear
- Sabre
- Sword (only in certain branches)

One other fairly rare form I forget the name of, "Ying tang ba shi" ? ??? I really can't remember. Essentially it's just the first 5 I listed. Lots of people here and there have additional stuff but those 5 are the core curriculum.

Thanks alot. This info is tough to find (unless my internets skills are diminishing). One question, what exactly is "jin gang ba shi"? It seems like it is a completely different style from what I saw from Zhou Jinxuan on youtube.

edit: oh and what branch is Liu Yun Qiao (and students)?

[omarthefish]

Yeah.

Although I really truly do love mister Zhou's Baji vids I don't recognize his "jingangdabashi".

What it usually refers to is not a form at all but a set of 8 "trademark" Baji attacks. They are only "form" in the sense that the 5 fists of Xingyi are forms. Just a single attacking combo that is drilled repeatedly. There are 8 of them and that's what the name means:

jin gang: "divine warrior"
da: great/big
ba: 8
shi: moves/stances

[B-Rad]

Here's a video of Huo branch's Liu Da Kai, and Ba Da Zhou

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnzOCpac7tI

Jin Gang Ba Shi is the same basic idea (doing different "roads" back and forth).

I learned jing gang ba shi, some of liu da kai, and xiao baji quan a few years ago but don't really remember much myself, and didn't go past an extreme novice level in the art (stuck pretty much to taiji quan). Jin gang ba shi did have some very "pigua-esque" technique in it. One technique I remember is starting with a pigua type arm swinging attack, getting inside, and then putting the shoulder and hip into the opponent along with coming across with the front arm (pulling down with the back) for a take down. Think "parting the horses mane" from taiji quan but from a side horse stance.

[B-Rad]

Huo familly's Da Baji Quan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXrP9qi39Mg&mode=related&search=

[SPJ]

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=713437&postcount=39

a discussion about lineages.

:)

[AdrianK]

Hi,

I've been looking for information on Bajiquan, however this style is very hard to come by. I've seen several schools that teach possibly a bajiquan form, or bajiquan secondary to their curriculum, however I haven't seen a Bajiquan school... nor have I been able to find any information on any organizations based on the US, Grandmasters, etc.

Does anyone have any information on this fairly rare style?

[CFT]

Hi, you seem to have overlooked the famed Adam Hsu!

The SF branch of the school teaches Bajiquan.
http://www.adamhsusf.com/

[AdrianK]

Ah yes, Adam Hsu seems interesting. He's kind've close to me too.

I've also heard of a Grandmaster An Teraong(sp?). Are these the only two GM's of Bajiquan in the US?

[Daelomin]

I'm interested in does anyone teach or train Han family Baji in the US? Or any line other than Liu Yun Qiaos? Seems like US has been mostly overrun by the Wu-Tan :)

[doug maverick]

Ah yes, Adam Hsu seems interesting. He's kind've close to me too.

I've also heard of a Grandmaster An Teraong(sp?). Are these the only two GM's of Bajiquan in the US?

he is beyond interesting, the dude is Amazing.

[jdhowland]

Kurt Wong teaches bajiquan in Anchorage, Alaska. Also Wu Tan from Liu's lineage. He is good.

jd

[fadz]

Hi,
I have been posting on every martial arts forum I can find with no success.
Was wondering if anyone knew anyone that teaches Bajiquan in Australia. Any leads would be really helpful.

Thanks

[jdhowland]

Have you tried Australia Wu Tang? Not sure where they are located.

jd

[Hardwork108]

I find this Bajiquan form beautifully performed, so I thought I would post it for those here who actually practic kung fu to appreciate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZqdb5fyc2M



.

[bawang]

nope
vbvbkjj

[Hardwork108]

nope

You will, when you eventually start practicing authentic kung fu.....

[bawang]

i practice 99 power qigong with your moerther and leung ting

[CYMac]

I find this Bajiquan form beautifully performed, so I thought I would post it for those here who actually practic kung fu to appreciate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZqdb5fyc2M



.


I have that DVD long time ago, his baji is brilliant! I love the set too, with the sand flying up and all that, it just fits the mood!

[taai gihk yahn]

I find this Bajiquan form beautifully performed, so I thought I would post it for those here who actually practic kung fu to appreciate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZqdb5fyc2M



.

nah, that's more "performance" oriented;

"real" baji would be this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ9qKk--Us&feature=related

he also appears to actually know what to do with it as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Cf1UGt9Wo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l49_FPzhf8&NR=1

[taai gihk yahn]

I have that DVD long time ago, his baji is brilliant! I love the set too, with the sand flying up and all that, it just fits the mood!
why do I picture you watching it in your yellow robes, clapping your hands together, jumping up and down, screaming "FABULOUS!!!"

[bawang]

i predict mac joe buying 10 pounds of sand

[omarthefish]

You will, when you eventually start practicing authentic kung fu.....

I hate to break it to you but. . . bawang nailed it. That video is pretty cool but the main thing it has going for it is decent editing and a really cool setting for the filming. As actual traditional gongfu goes....lol. He's doing a pretty standard wushu version. The clip is labeled "Shaanxi Bajiquan". I live in Shaanxi. I'm pretty familiar with who's doing what out here.

I can go into specifics on what he's doing wrong from a practical perspective if you want. His movements are crisp and clean but mostly useless.

[CYMac]

why do i picture you watching it in your yellow robes, clapping your hands together, jumping up and down, screaming "fabulous!!!"

fabulous!!!!!

[Hardwork108]

i practice 99 power qigong with your moerther and leung ting

I find you implying that you have sexual fantasies about Leung Ting disturbing. I am sure that when you find a real sifu, he will beat those unhealthy thoughts out of your skull!...............

[CYMac]

I find you implying that you have sexual fantasies about Leung Ting disturbing. I am sure that when you find a real sifu, he will beat those unhealthy thoughts out of your skull!...............

He don't need one, he have his own lineage and he requested me to pay him $200 by Western Union to get ordained into his path too. What was required is 50 megawatts on your balls and take a photo of it and send it to him.....

Not to forget his bottle of mayo...

[Hardwork108]

I hate to break it to you but. . . bawang nailed it. That video is pretty cool but the main thing it has going for it is decent editing and a really cool setting for the filming. As actual traditional gongfu goes....lol. He's doing a pretty standard wushu version. The clip is labeled "Shaanxi Bajiquan". I live in Shaanxi. I'm pretty familiar with who's doing what out here.

I can go into specifics on what he's doing wrong from a practical perspective if you want. His movements are crisp and clean but mostly useless.

I am no Bajiquan expert, but I know a thing or two about kung fu. The man's movements were precise, he had good stances and seemed to have good power release. To my eyes he performed the form beautifully, and if you check my original post, then you will see that this was the reason I gave for posting the video.

The man in the video is a practioner of the Shanxi styleo of Baji. Are you familiar with this lineage? He can also be seen in other video clips in Youtube, giving instruction.

If you practic Baji and think you can perform that same form better, then fine, perhaps you can post a video of it, or perhaps you can film Bawang doing the same form while he is rubbing his balls, as he always claims to be doing.:D

[Hardwork108]

He don't need one, he have his own lineage and he requested me to pay him $200 by Western Union to get ordained into his path too. What was required is 50 megawatts on your balls and take a photo of it and send it to him.....

Not to forget his bottle of mayo...

Interesting character, this Bawang fellow. He may be clueless about authentic kung fu practice, but yes, he is still interesting.....

[Hardwork108]

nah, that's more "performance" oriented;
Well, that was the point. I liked the performance, but I did not find it superficial like some other performance videos. The man's movements/posture/stances were precise and he looked powerful in performing them.


"real" baji would be this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ9qKk--Us&feature=related

he also appears to actually know what to do with it as well...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Cf1UGt9Wo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l49_FPzhf8&NR=1

Thanks for the above videos. The master doing the form looks more "raw" or "street", and I like it too. I have always found Bajiquan fascinating, so any more videos will be welcome.

[CYMac]

Interesting character, this Bawang fellow. He may be clueless about authentic kung fu practice, but yes, he is still interesting.....

Sometimes I wonder if Bawang was "Gene"'s other ID coming out to joke around and smoothen the air abit from time to time, just to make us laugh and enjoy KFM more.. plus making a secret group of "Mayo Lineage"....

[CYMac]

Well, that was the point. I liked the performance, but I did not find it superficial like some other performance videos. The man's movements/posture/stances were precise and he looked powerful in performing them.

Thanks for the above videos. The master doing the form looks more "raw" or "street", and I like it too. I have always found Bajiquan fascinating, so any more videos will be welcome.

For the video of Mr.Chow up there.. I don't really like his compare to the one posted originally in this thread. The reason is, baiji chuan is supposed to be done in a very sudden movements like suddent explosion, not fast and like a race car. You can say it's supposed to be a canon but not a machine gun type. This guy here is doing it like a machine gun, no essence of baji at all.

I ain't any baji master but here is my baji form, just to share. (not saying it's good!) :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRP2y6DkxwQ

[Hardwork108]

Sometimes I wonder if Bawang was "Gene"'s other ID coming out to joke around and smoothen the air abit from time to time, just to make us laugh and enjoy KFM more.. plus making a secret group of "Mayo Lineage"....

Gene has too much class to post as a disturbed character such as Bawang.

Plus, Gene is a Kung Fu Immortal, he does not need to post under any other name.:D

[CYMac]

Gene has too much class to post as a disturbed character such as Bawang.

Plus, Gene is a Kung Fu Immortal, he does not need to post under any other name.:D

Hahaha! Well, bawang is funny though, haha! We all know he brand himself good, and all I remember about him is ...

- mayo rubbing balls
- he is from china some village
- pay $200 to enter his lineage
- his mother is very strong but a MAN...
- everybody pay respect to him by rubbing his balls furiously...

Um... yeah, if he is a company, or business, he really brand himself good. haha!

[Hardwork108]

For the video of Mr.Chow up there.. I don't really like his compare to the one posted originally in this thread. The reason is, baiji chuan is supposed to be done in a very sudden movements like suddent explosion, not fast and like a race car. You can say it's supposed to be a canon but not a machine gun type.

That is why I referred to the power release in the original video. According to my Baji readings the power release in Baji is sharp and explosive, like as you put it, a cannon.

However, I liked Taai Gihk Yahn's video clips as well, because the master in that video had a certain rawness. He also seemed to have a good knowledge of the applications.


This guy here is doing it like a machine gun, no essence of baji at all.
The difference as regards the power release may be a lineage thing. I really don't know, but I know exactly what you mean.



I ain't any baji master but here is my baji form, just to share. (not saying it's good!) :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRP2y6DkxwQ

Thanks for sharing.:)

[CYMac]

That is why I referred to the power release in the original video. According to my Baji readings the power release in Baji is sharp and explosive, like as you put it, a cannon.

However, I liked Taai Gihk Yahn's video clips as well, because the master in that video had a certain rawness. He also seemed to have a good knowledge of the applications.


The difference as regards the power release may be a lineage thing. I really don't know, but I know exactly what you mean.


Thanks for sharing.:)


I do agree, different lineage have different way to "express" their kungfu, and so some do baji fast, which is okay. But the word "baji" means "eight extreme", so the style is already meant to go "extreme" in all eight directions, extending the force all the way to one way, explosive, etc,. Although, the master can do it fast but STILL have explosive power as well. So that's another thing.

I do my forms slow and with not much "external force". It's because first, I have a leg injury on my right which limit my footwork to kick or do stance. Second is because I like to use internal power more and so you don't look powerful when you use the internal force. The difference is, when you touch me while I move forward with the strike, your whole limb can numb.

I am not sure what the baji style's force is like, do you have any guidlines?

[Hardwork108]

Hahaha! Well, bawang is funny though, haha! We all know he brand himself good, and all I remember about him is ...

- mayo rubbing balls
I guess he likes solo practice. ;)



- he is from china some village
I am guessing that Bawang was exiled from China for rubbing his balls in front of government officials.


- pay $200 to enter his lineage
It was attitudes like that which made me think that Bawang was Lkfmdc.


- his mother is very strong but a MAN...
Apparently she was a woman before giving birth to him....


- everybody pay respect to him by rubbing his balls furiously...

This forum is full of ball rubbers. The practic MMA but then rub their balls fantasizing about being authentic kung fu exponents....LOL


Um... yeah, if he is a company, or business, he really brand himself good. haha!

I would have branded him too if I had a ranch and if Bawang was in it. ;):D

[CYMac]

I guess he likes solo practice. ;)



I am guessing that Bawang was exiled from China for rubbing his balls in front of government officials.


It was attitudes like that which made me think that Bawang was Lkfmdc.


Apparently she was a woman before giving birth to him....



This forum is full of ball rubbers. The practic MMA but then rub their balls fantasizing about being authentic kung fu exponents....LOL



I would have branded him too if I had a ranch. ;):D


LOL! He is just cool~ haha! unique and exclusive at KFM only, haha! KFM sounds like something have to do with KFC.. do we get any chicken here? or just Nacho?

[Hardwork108]

I am not sure what the baji style's force is like, do you have any guidlines?

Again, my understanding of Baji is limited to my readings. From what I have gathered, the harsh stance training together with stance transference training creates certain body unity faculties that combine with breathing and sometimes ground stomping to transfer the energy and power from ground to the fists, to create penetrative strikes.

I guess that my understanding is too general, but it is all I have as regards Baji.

[Hardwork108]

LOL! He is just cool~ haha! unique and exclusive at KFM only, haha! KFM sounds like something have to do with KFC.. do we get any chicken here? or just Nacho?

I think we get more turkeys than anything else...;):D

[CYMac]

Again, my understanding of Baji is limited to my readings. From what I have gathered, the harsh stance training together with stance transference training creates certain body unity faculties that combine with breathing and sometimes ground stomping to transfer the energy and power from ground to the fists, to create penetrative strikes.

I guess that my understanding is too general, but it is all I have as regards Baji.

Stomping techniques is used in many forms too, I have done so myself and it does work well. I also trained the 12 and 10 roads Tan Tui (spring kick) of northern shaolin before which also use this stomping method. *10 roads is from Cha CHuan (查拳).*

Do you do baji yourself? or got any video of yourself doing it?

I also have saw "Ng Lin Chi"'s baji which is way different than this you posted initially. His is more high stance style but the force is used more sudden and chained. Not fast though, just linked and chained. *Ng Lin Chi* is one of the authority in baji now, I think he is a lineage holder or something.. gotta check first, not sure.

--
got a video~
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDczMzA4OA==.html

[CYMac]

I think we get more turkeys than anything else...;):D

Turkeys?! where do we get all that?!

[CYMac]

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/A1InqYpQWx8/

this server is faster, full DVD 1 hr of baji with Ng Lin Chi sifu, he is very famous in baji, you can look at his baji here with a very different vibe.

checked, NG LIN CHI is baji style 7th generation lineage holder, yep, very high in the ladder he is! Nobody can say baji he do is not good, haha!

It's like when you want to look at Ip Man Wingchun now, who can say they are better than Ip Chun? haha!

[doug maverick]

I find this Bajiquan form beautifully performed, so I thought I would post it for those here who actually practic kung fu to appreciate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZqdb5fyc2M



.

no disrespect to this guy. but baby powder? and all that kung fu movie stuff....yea not for me, his movements were good. but when youve seen someone like adam hsu do it...then you know what great baiji is.

[Hardwork108]

Do you do baji yourself? or got any video of yourself doing it?
No, I have never done Baji. My experience is limited to Wing Chun and Chow Gar.


--


got a video~
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDczMzA4OA==.html

Interesting video, even though for some reason I could not see the whole thing. I will try to see the rest later on when I wake up. It is very late here in Colombia, so I am going to bed soon.

[CYMac]

No, I have never done Baji. My experience is limited to Wing Chun and Chow Gar.

--

Interesting video, even though for some reason I could not see the whole thing. I will try to see the rest later on when I wake up. It is very late here in Colombia, so I am going to bed soon.

Ah~ I see! Chow Gar mantis? that's tough too!

I don't know why the server for those movies are so slow too, it's really slow for the china servers, and sometimes people just kept on lagging for hours, haha! But at least we got a chance to see it though, haha!

[CYMac]

no disrespect to this guy. but baby powder? and all that kung fu movie stuff....yea not for me, his movements were good. but when youve seen someone like adam hsu do it...then you know what great baiji is.

Adam Hsu from taiwan? I saw his stuff as well, um.. yes it's great but the guy in the video with the sand set is nice too because he is demonstrating in a "production for sale" and so of course they need all that movie stuff to make the VCD better for your viewing pleasure.. now people do these VCDs with chromakey set as well, (green screen) and you can see they start to integrate more and more movie making stuff into these DVD as well. It's art, you gotta be relax and open mind to enjoy it more, haha!

[Hardwork108]

no disrespect to this guy. but baby powder? and all that kung fu movie stuff....yea not for me, his movements were good. but when youve seen someone like adam hsu do it...then you know what great baiji is.

I am not qualified enough in Baji to pass judgment on who is the better exponent, speciallly taking into consideration different lineages and "personalities", but if you see yourself as qualified enough to do so, then that is fine too.....

[omarthefish]

I am no Bajiquan expert, but I know a thing or two about kung fu. The man's movements were precise, he had good stances and seemed to have good power release. To my eyes he performed the form beautifully, and if you check my original post, then you will see that this was the reason I gave for posting the video.
Yes, I agreed already that his movements were precise his stances however, were, from a classical Baji perspective, garbage. I can't tell on the opening stance without a side view but the "horse" stance on the initial elbow strike (0:25) is comically wide. It's not even possible to land that elbow when it doesn't even reach past your lead foot. The knees are splayed outwards in violation of the quanpu and he has zero power being delivered to the elbow. The way he plays it, the elbow is placed in position and then the hand whips around. That's not an elbow strike. The next move (0:28) is supposed to be a big sweeping forearm smash or at least something like a Choi Li Fut sau choi. Again, he's crisp but there's not wait power in the movement. It's crisp like a breakdancer. The punch at (0:31) is a pet peeve of mine because I see even "traditional" Baji players often do it this way....the rear elbow is raised really high behind him but that's just for show. It's a stupid modern Wushu convention that has slipped into even many traditionalists's forms. It robs power and serves no tactical purpose. The rear hand should be pulled back near the waist or ribs, not held at head level and the trajectory on this guys punching hand is like some sort of weird sideways hammerfist. He's not even punching with it. He does a big flowery sweep into position. At (0:35) another bit of classic modern Wushu nonsense as he draws a big circle in the air with his left hand before slowly chambering it at his waist? ???

I could go on like this through the whole video. There's no martial applicability to the majority of the moves the way he's doing them, no waist power, no full body fa-jin, his stances are too wide and too low, no rounded back/waist. etc.


The man in the video is a practioner of the Shanxi styleo of Baji. Are you familiar with this lineage? He can also be seen in other video clips in Youtube, giving instruction.
No such thing as "Shaanxi" style of Baji. You mispelled it btw. It's only important because Shaanxi/陕西 needs to be distinguished from Shanxi/山西. I didn't see his teaching clips and couldn't tell what school he is affiliated. If you point me to some of those clips then I could probably comment more specifically.


If you practic Baji and think you can perform that same form better, then fine, perhaps you can post a video of it...
Sure thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8G9FW5hM3U
My form is a hell of a lot uglier and not nearly as precise as his but the power is much better and the body requirements are, for the most part, being met. Most importantly, my movements pretty much all work in a scrap. I threw up a couple samples you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APqBOL3Sn04

[CYMac]

smartthefish,

I saw your video, and I can say your baji looks more like a mantis hopper more than a baji though. The legs aren't even landed to fully go extreme in power and then you already jumped to the next move, that's way too fast for a baji form which is not even close to the meaning of baji. If you see baji by NG LIN CHI, as I posted above, he is the baiji's 7th generation lineage holder, you can't say he is wrong haha! Look at how he does it and you will see that yours is way too into ultra-speed, looks like yours is way more wushu based than the initial video with the sand set to me!~ :)

The way why the person in the initial video with the sand set do the form in a lower stance is not because he is from wushu school, it's because it's a way to train and you must not always think about each move's martial application when you do a form. That's wrong. Doing a form is doing a form. As most styles do the form starting easy, then go low stance, then go higher stance and then refine to the normal stance. That is a process of building the foundation of the practitioner's stance and footwork. Also to build strength. In many styles, the forms varies because of the need to build a foundation in the body as well. So they looks like they don't make "sense" if you look at it in a combat perspective. But if you train with the form, you feel the boost of energy and power really quick. so it's different.

Don't forget, baji is about "extreme" and is about power, not about speed and quick moving or jumping. It's not a spring that bounce around to hit people, it's a canon that attune it's angle and do all the math and then strike out to unleash the power. As I say, please look at the world's #1 baji representative, NG LIN CHI, he will tell and show you what it's all about.

[omarthefish]

CYMac,

You have never actually trained Baji yourself so I am not really inclined to discuss the issue with you. Your performance is clearly a copy from one of the Wu-Tan guys. IMO, you copied it from Adam Hsu's performance.

I am not a really big fan of Wu Lian Zhi's Baji. (the guy you posted from Tudou.com: 吴连枝)

He's 7th generation? So what? I'm 8th gneration, but more to the point, from a totally different branch. IMO, his Baji is more Pigua power than anything else. I have a whole list of criticisms with his style just as I have criticisms of the Wu-Tan style that Adam Hsu represents, but, since you really don't have any foundation in Bajiquan yourself, I don't see any point in discussing stylistic variants with you. ;)

[PHILBERT]

You will, when you eventually start practicing authentic kung fu.....

What is authentic kung fu?

[CYMac]

CYMac,

You have never actually trained Baji yourself so I am not really inclined to discuss the issue with you. Your performance is clearly a copy from one of the Wu-Tan guys. IMO, you copied it from Adam Hsu's performance.

I am not a really big fan of Wu Lian Zhi's Baji. (the guy you posted from Tudou.com: 吴连枝)

He's 7th generation? So what? I'm 8th gneration, but more to the point, from a totally different branch. IMO, his Baji is more Pigua power than anything else. I have a whole list of criticisms with his style just as I have criticisms of the Wu-Tan style that Adam Hsu represents, but, since you really don't have any foundation in Bajiquan yourself, I don't see any point in discussing stylistic variants with you. ;)

Then why are you posting? The initial poster have not trained in baji either, are you then wasting your time typing all that stuff up there to him then? What's the point of talking here then? Why don't you go to a special "baji only" forum and talk if your kungfu is so precious and unique that you only discuss it with "baiji practitioners"? Wow, that's lots of confident and self-esteem as well as some "extreme" character you got there man! :p I see baji from the mouth!

[omarthefish]

Thanks for the reminder, taai gihk yahn.

Post was too wordy anyways...


;)

[taai gihk yahn]

Then why are you posting? The initial poster have not trained in baji either, are you then wasting your time typing all that stuff up there to him then? What's the point of talking here then? Why don't you go to a special "baji only" forum and talk if your kungfu is so precious and unique that you only discuss it with "baiji practitioners"? Wow, that's lots of confident and self-esteem as well as some "extreme" character you got there man! :p I see baji from the mouth!

WOW!!!

you have just completely gone over the edge of asz-hat to asz-hole; I mean, are you serious?

you really have no clue - Omar is a long-time poster here, studies baji in China, is intelligent and erudite in his posts and actually demonstrates the style in form and usage; you OTOH demonstrate baji from the perspective of an anemic grandparent, have NO forma training in it, and completely misunderstand the whole point of the system: in short, you don't know SHIIT about baji - yet you have no problem lauding a clearly wushufied performance, critiquing Omar's form and then questioning his motivation for posting about it - you have raised the bar of shiit-heel to a new level, you corpulent, plagiocephalic lunatic

you are an asz-hole; if I had any thoughts of giving you a break, they are gone; I am going to make it my personal mission to hound your ridiculous hat-wearing asz wherever you post on this forum; get ready for misery

[taai gihk yahn]

Omar,

by now you have realize this guy is a total joke; please don't waste your time attempting to have an intelligent discussion with him, it's clearly not possible;

HW108,

While I can appreciate your aesthetically enjoying the original form (it was, after all, designed for performance), it's really not indicative of the style in terms of shape, energy, etc.; it would behoove you to pay close attention to what Omar is posting, his knowledge and experience of baji is more than that of anyone on here, in fact,probaby more than most people who you might have the opportunity to meet - he studied the style in depth with an acknowledged and reputable teacher, he reads / wrietes / speaks CHinese from an educated perspective, and has demoed his level in both form and application; if you really want to have some input in terms of authenticity, this is someone to pay attention to;

CYMac, OTOH, is a form-colecting hack, who has no kung Fu at all; his understanding of most of what he shows is superficial at best, and if you can't see that, then I am at a loss to provide you with further input

[David Jamieson]

TGY, why do you chastise one moron and placate another? :D

oop sorry, forgot "Winning Taoism!"

[omarthefish]

You talkin' about me or HW? :eek:

Posting again because I realized that while I want to avoid getting sucked into a rant with the Celestial Master I had some stuff worth putting out there for HW in that last post regarding comparisons between Baji branches.

Wu Lianzhi:
Self appointed "zhangmenren" (head of the entire style) and recognized as such within Mengcun but not so much by any of the wider reaching Baji branches. His Baji has a strong Pigua flavour. Got lots of cool apps but I don't see much explosive power from his stuff. Also, from a "behind the scenes" perspective, he's a political force to be reckoned with. His association with the government sponsored "Wulin Da Hui" has made him sort of the government appointed "face of Baji". He's like the Chen Xiaowang of Bajiquan on many levels.

Lu Baochun:
Best explosive power I have seen from anyone with clips on the net. His application seminars look good too. His lineage does not come from the Wu family though. They branched off quite a while back.

Liu Yunqiao and the Wu-Tan in general:
Very distinctive style. While in lineage terms these guys are kissing cousins to our association in Xi'an, very different flavor. They have extravagantly deep stances, lots of Bagua influence in their movements and display really "heavy" solid power. Not as explosive as Lu Baochun, IMHO, but very clean. I have issues with their constant slow practice. They do fast too but overall I think their style could use more agility. I think their stances are too low and form performances too slow. I think they are trying to hard to be "internal". Tony Yang's stuff still looks fantastic though and Jason Tsou, while I don't especially like his form style, I've taken classes from him and he's got excellent power and great integration of Bagua and Taiji into his tactical repetoire.

Zhou Jingxuan:
His stuff comes from Wu Xiufeng, a close relation to the Wu family. I love his speed and explosiveness but again, lost of Pigua in his stuff. He also lacks the kind of really heavy, solid root that the Wu-Tan guys tend to get so well. Just for his speed alone though he makes my list of favorite 3 or 5 online Baji performers.

Zhang Xiangwu/Li Suiyin:
I'll try to keep it simple because this is my own branch so I can't be objective about judging it so I'll just try to describe only. Zhang Xiangwu pretty much did away with the Pigua and instead created a Baji/Taiji hybrid. I get a little "wild" in my forms, losing stability to be honest, because we really focus on explosive power, speed, and relentless attack. Our concept of "root" is very different from the mainstream. I have gone a bit overboard with the search for speed and explosivity and have actually been trying to tone it back a bit to get more stability lately. It's not a balance issue. I mean that sense of smooth, traveling on rails, power. Once I get that though, I'll speed it back up again.

[wenshu]

you corpulent, plagiocephalic lunatic


OH SNAP!

He said you got a crooked skull son!

[CYMac]

WOW!!!

you have just completely gone over the edge of asz-hat to asz-hole; I mean, are you serious?

you really have no clue - Omar is a long-time poster here, studies baji in China, is intelligent and erudite in his posts and actually demonstrates the style in form and usage; you OTOH demonstrate baji from the perspective of an anemic grandparent, have NO forma training in it, and completely misunderstand the whole point of the system: in short, you don't know SHIIT about baji - yet you have no problem lauding a clearly wushufied performance, critiquing Omar's form and then questioning his motivation for posting about it - you have raised the bar of shiit-heel to a new level, you corpulent, plagiocephalic lunatic

you are an asz-hole; if I had any thoughts of giving you a break, they are gone; I am going to make it my personal mission to hound your ridiculous hat-wearing asz wherever you post on this forum; get ready for misery

Just curious, why don't you talk without using swear words? Can you talk without them? I mean... you really HAVE to use them in every replies to make your post readable or something? I can't believe how much swearing you use, as a martial artist, you are really hot headed man. Can't you relax? If you can't stop insulting and abusing or bullying, learn it, or else your kids will give you a hard time later on by doing the same thing. Be a good role model man...

[taai gihk yahn]

TGY, why do you chastise one moron and placate another? :D

oop sorry, forgot "Winning Taoism!"

finally, someone who "gets" me :)

[taai gihk yahn]

...because I think I've discovered something brand new!


Just curious, why don't you talk without using swear words? Can you talk without them? I mean... you really HAVE to use them in every replies to make your post readable or something? I can't believe how much swearing you use, as a martial artist, you are really hot headed man. Can't you relax? If you can't stop insulting and abusing or bullying, learn it, or else your kids will give you a hard time later on by doing the same thing. Be a good role model man...

it seems that, and I can't be sure, but it SEEMS that CYMac has done something rather unique here: instead of directly responding to what I wrote, he instead highlights a peripheral aspect of it (my allegedly excessive use of profanity), emphasizes it to to a disproportionate extent, draws a non sequitor relationship between it and my being a martial artist (according to him, at least; I have never defined myself as such, but anyway...) and ends with an admonishment vis a vis the relationship between myself and my kids; it's almost as if...as if...he has disempowered my previous post by this startling and never before seen tactic; in fact, I am now so busy mustering a defense to his accusations that I have forgotten what I posted previously! what a brilliant and heretofore unheard of stratagem!

:rolleyes:

wait, an image that encapsulates his response creeps into my consciousness...

http://hypervocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/lame-duck.jpg

next...

[bawang]

Can't you relax? If you can't stop insulting and abusing or bullying, learn it, or else your kids will give you a hard time later on by doing the same thing. Be a good role model man...
did your mother beat you

[taai gihk yahn]

Thanks for the reminder, taai gihk yahn.

Post was too wordy anyways...


;)

actual, too bad you erased it - I liked the way that you explicated your ontological perspective on your training, which was very well thought-out and reasonable; of course, BigMac wouldn't have a clue what you are talking about, since his training is all about breadth rather than depth, but I found it of value; maybe to repost it, if possible? (if not, so it's a great lesson on the nature of impermanence...)

[taai gihk yahn]

did your mother beat you

no; she tried to snuff him in utero (or, as he puts it, "in her stomach"), by making him gestate next to a zombie cannibal twin sister...which is why his glasses don't fit, or why he eats a lot of donuts, or something like that

[CYMac]

By the way, I just want to say thanks for "smartthefish" for posting all these great knowledge up for baiji. Yes, you do open my eyes, I admit my baiji is not as great, but I do train in the style for a period of time as well. Respect.

[taai gihk yahn]

By the way, I just want to say thanks for "smartthefish" for posting all these great knowledge up for baiji. Yes, you do open my eyes, I admit my baiji is not as great, but I do train in the style for a period of time as well. Respect.

lol, after getting taken to the shed, son, it's a little late to fess up...

[CYMac]

lol, after getting taken to the shed, son, it's a little late to fess up...

Not really, I do admit my baiji is not any master grade, at first already. At least I don't shout out things I don't know about and kept chasing a bigMac around, don't you get that big cat picture?

[Hardwork108]

Yes, I agreed already that his movements were precise his stances

Well, that is part of the reason I posted it in this thread. It just looked good for what it was.



however, were, from a classical Baji perspective, garbage.
Perhaps, as a Baji practitioner, you are better qualified to make comments and criticisms than I am.

All I can say at this point is that sometimes a movement may not look "right" on a form, until someone hits you with it.

Also, no matter the details of the form in the way it was performed for camera, the same sifu may do it differently in a class, so it may not be fair to be to vocal about the criticisms.



I can't tell on the opening stance without a side view but the "horse" stance on the initial elbow strike (0:25) is comically wide. It's not even possible to land that elbow when it doesn't even reach past your lead foot. The knees are splayed outwards in violation of the quanpu and he has zero power being delivered to the elbow. The way he plays it, the elbow is placed in position and then the hand whips around. That's not an elbow strike. The next move (0:28) is supposed to be a big sweeping forearm smash or at least something like a Choi Li Fut sau choi. Again, he's crisp but there's not wait power in the movement. It's crisp like a breakdancer. The punch at (0:31) is a pet peeve of mine because I see even "traditional" Baji players often do it this way....the rear elbow is raised really high behind him but that's just for show. It's a stupid modern Wushu convention that has slipped into even many traditionalists's forms. It robs power and serves no tactical purpose. The rear hand should be pulled back near the waist or ribs, not held at head level and the trajectory on this guys punching hand is like some sort of weird sideways hammerfist. He's not even punching with it. He does a big flowery sweep into position. At (0:35) another bit of classic modern Wushu nonsense as he draws a big circle in the air with his left hand before slowly chambering it at his waist? ???

Thank you for taking time to explain the details. Again, some of what you say makes sense, other stuff may have made sense, either way, if I was Baji pracitioner.


I could go on like this through the whole video. There's no martial applicability to the majority of the moves the way he's doing them, no waist power, no full body fa-jin, his stances are too wide and too low, no rounded back/waist. etc.
Again, I saw some moves that seemed to exert power. Others may have been lacking fajing, but again, sometimes in kung fu, you don't see the fajing, you feel it on contact. That is why I am "careful".:)


No such thing as "Shaanxi" style of Baji. You mispelled it btw. It's only important because Shaanxi/陕西 needs to be distinguished from Shanxi/山西.

Well, have a look at the description of that video clip and you will see Shanxi written in that exact manner.



I didn't see his teaching clips and couldn't tell what school he is affiliated. If you point me to some of those clips then I could probably comment more specifically.

Here, I believe that this is the same sifu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXglARrfjbc&feature=related



Sure thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8G9FW5hM3U
My form is a hell of a lot uglier and not nearly as precise as his but the power is much better and the body requirements are, for the most part, being met. Most importantly, my movements pretty much all work in a scrap. I threw up a couple samples you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APqBOL3Sn04

Thank you for posting. To be honest, this is the first time I see shouting in a Baji clip. Is this how your lineage practices this particular form or was this just to enhance the form during a public performance?

From my readings and research, Grand Master Liu Yun Qiao seems to have been the real deal in the same wain as CTS of Lama Pai and Chee Kim Thong of Five Ancestor Fist (and other styles), so if someone asks to put up a video clips of what I consider authentic Baji, these would be a couple of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9-jge2Wk4k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiRqDjTGPw&feature=related

[Hardwork108]

TGY, why do you chastise one moron and placate another?

He is being kind to you?


oop sorry,
You should be. Now run back to your glorified Tae Kwon Do dojang and hop around until you get happy, thank you....:rolleyes:



forgot "Winning Taoism!"

I believe that even the word "Taoism" is way above your (knuckle) head. So, don't waste our time with trying to come across as smart....run along now to your "kung fu-ist" Tae Kwon Do brothers are waiting for you.....

[Violent Designs]

It's like a bad joke for anyone to be criticizing practitioners from Li Shu Wen's lineage.

[taai gihk yahn]

Not really, I do admit my baiji is not any master grade, at first already.
lol, yet you critique someone with far more expertise in it than you, having no clue what you are talking about at all;


At least I don't shout out things I don't know about
srsly? ur entire existence on the forum is to shout out things you don't know about;


and kept chasing a bigMac around, don't you get that big cat picture?
consider it part of my civic duty; I am like the town crier announcing the arrival of the village idiot...

[Hardwork108]

It's like a bad joke for anyone to be criticizing practitioners from Li Shu Wen's lineage.

Just for the record. I am not criticising anyone's lineage.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

I hate to break it to you but. . . bawang nailed it. That video is pretty cool but the main thing it has going for it is decent editing and a really cool setting for the filming. As actual traditional gongfu goes....lol. He's doing a pretty standard wushu version. The clip is labeled "Shaanxi Bajiquan". I live in Shaanxi. I'm pretty familiar with who's doing what out here.

I can go into specifics on what he's doing wrong from a practical perspective if you want. His movements are crisp and clean but mostly useless.

what is your first language?

[wenshu]

I know a thing or two about kung fu.

Not enough to know wushu when you see it.

[wenshu]

Just curious, why don't you talk without using swear words? Can you talk without them? I mean... you really HAVE to use them in every replies to make your post readable or something? I can't believe how much swearing you use, as a martial artist, you are really hot headed man. Can't you relax? If you can't stop insulting and abusing or bullying, learn it, or else your kids will give you a hard time later on by doing the same thing. Be a good role model man...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU2ZgaQ_H-Y

[omarthefish]

Again, I saw some moves that seemed to exert power.
Emphasis mine. Just my eye of course and I don't like to trash performances so I'd like to emphasize again, very precise movement there, looked good. Just not seeing any Baji body-method that I recognize. IMO, no actual power.


Well, have a look at the description of that video clip and you will see Shanxi written in that exact manner.
Yeah, I saw that and it's a really minor side issue because technically, that's the correct pinyin for the place name but the problem is that there are 2 provinces in China which, if you eliminate the tonal inflection, are pronounced identical. So just as a linguistic convention, 陕西 usually gets an extra “a" in the middle to try and imply the 3rd tone pronunciation where 山西 (first tone) gets only one "a". Shanxi、山西 is a major center for Xingyi in China, especially Song style. Shaanxi/陕西 is next to Sichuan and is not famous for any martial arts because it's martial arts community lives there mostly as a result of mid 20th century history. The Chinese characters at the beginning of the clip say it's Shaanxi/陕西. To an English speaker they sound the same but this is Shanxi:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/China_Shanxi.svg/705px-China_Shanxi.svg.png
And this is Shaanxi:
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/434/shaanxiprovinceplacesin.jpg


Thank you for posting. To be honest, this is the first time I see shouting in a Baji clip. Is this how your lineage practices this particular form or was this just to enhance the form during a public performance?
A better question is why nobody else shouts. It's in the quanpu. There are even pictures out there of Liu Yunqiao standing in front of big Chinese calligraphy that says stuff about the shouting because it's so integral to the style. Google "heng ha breathing" for more info. "heng" is a nasal growl that shows up more in the small frame set and "ha" is the shout and is basically the same idea as a kiai. There's "heng" in my video too but not as audible. I ended up using a lot more "heng" in my leitai fight because. . . . of the mouth guard of course. :D

I'll look at the clips later. I know it sounds cliche but...I actually have to head out and train. It's early morning here at the moment and I was just using the board to pass the time while I drink my morning Joe.

[Violent Designs]

Just for the record. I am not criticising anyone's lineage.

I'm referring to CYMac Taoist Master, not you.

Cheers

[omarthefish]

....back again. Waiting for a DVD to finish burning. I promised I'd burn Shifu another copy of our recent Leitai event. My "elder brother" asked for one.

The Liu Yunqiao clips are not my taste but they are undeniably good. Notice how, in contrast to the "MTV Baji" guy, his punches are actual punches. They stab out really sharp. His whole body snaps into place rather than planting his feet first and then whipping the hands around into place. Notice how his knees are slightly turned in on the "horse stance".

The Baji I like looks more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg&feature=related

Those guys are doing excellent, classic Bajiquan.

More Baji that I find absolutely top flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lli7Ew1Zi4k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUYxK9oIhHI

Compare those clips I just posted with the MTV clip. Look at how narrow their horse is. Look at the angle that the elbow comes in. Follow the trajectory of the punches. They are all very practical.

[Violent Designs]

Omar what do you think about Zhou Jingxuan's Bajiquan? What lineage is he from also?

Just sheer curiosity.

Cheers,

-V

[wenshu]

Emphasis mine. Just my eye of course and I don't like to trash performances so I'd like to emphasize again, very precise movement there, looked good. Just not seeing any Baji body-method that I recognize. IMO, no actual power.

Yeah, I saw that and it's a really minor side issue because technically, that's the correct pinyin for the place name but the problem is that there are 2 provinces in China which, if you eliminate the tonal inflection, are pronounced identical. So just as a linguistic convention, 陕西 usually gets an extra “a" in the middle to try and imply the 3rd tone pronunciation where 山西 (first tone) gets only one "a". Shanxi、山西 is a major center for Xingyi in China, especially Song style. Shaanxi/陕西 is next to Sichuan and is not famous for any martial arts because it's martial arts community lives there mostly as a result of mid 20th century history. The Chinese characters at the beginning of the clip say it's Shaanxi/陕西. To an English speaker they sound the same but this is Shanxi:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/China_Shanxi.svg/705px-China_Shanxi.svg.png
And this is Shaanxi:
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/434/shaanxiprovinceplacesin.jpg

A better question is why nobody else shouts. It's in the quanpu. There are even pictures out there of Liu Yunqiao standing in front of big Chinese calligraphy that says stuff about the shouting because it's so integral to the style. Google "heng ha breathing" for more info. "heng" is a nasal growl that shows up more in the small frame set and "ha" is the shout and is basically the same idea as a kiai. There's "heng" in my video too but not as audible. I ended up using a lot more "heng" in my leitai fight because. . . . of the mouth guard of course. :D


Best post of the entire forum in a while.

What do you mean by nobody else shouts? Do you mean in Baji or a more broader context?

[Violent Designs]

I suppose it's like kiai within the Japanese schools of thought. He means within Bajiquan, since it is stated within the quanpu as part of the system's fundamental theories.

[Hardwork108]

Not enough to know wushu when you see it.

Perhaps you are the one who cannot differentiate between wu shu and wu shu-esque?

[SPJ]

as pointed out

ba ji stance is more compact or with high horse stance.

--

:cool:

[taai gihk yahn]

Not enough to know wushu when you see it.


Perhaps you are the one who cannot differentiate between wu shu and wu shu-esque?

evidently he can - here's the same form, being done at a wushu tournament - apparently the form you linked to is one of the standardized baji wushu routines (a number of the comments stated the same thing...)

http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/5278195-1130869430.html

here's the same form being done by a "Taoist monk" (apparently baji is BIG at wu dang...:rolleyes:)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/782736/ba_ji_quan/

[bawang]

i think those kind of performances take away your dignity. symbolically its the castrated chinaman dancing in celebration of his feminity and inferiority.

[taai gihk yahn]

i think those kind of performances take away your dignity.

http://www.thecuteness.com/uploaded_images/IMG_5986-726290.JPG

[Drake]

i think those kind of performances take away your dignity. symbolically its the castrated chinaman dancing in celebration of his feminity and inferiority.

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfjzKYXzsjA&feature=related

[Drake]

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/demotivational-posters-my-dignity.jpg

[bawang]

in these performances the weak man of asia revel and rejoice in his weakness and impotence. the bickering gossip and mind games reflect the chinese kung fu community, a den of tricksters, fornicators and h0m0sexuals

i dont know if you guys know this, but in the ancient times generals blamed the kung fu community for the deaths of tens of thousands of soldiers. if general qi saw those perfformance 500 years ago the performers would have been immediately beheaded

[Drake]

in these performances the weak man of asia revel and rejoice in his weakness and impotence. the bickering gossip and mind games reflect the chinese kung fu community, a den of tricksters, fornicators and h0m0sexuals

i dont know if you guys know this, but in the ancient times generals blamed the kung fu community for the deaths of tens of thousands of soldiers. if general qi saw those perfformance 500 years ago he would have been immediately beheaded

But look where we are now in society...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5I6y1Qvz0

[Hardwork108]

evidently he can - here's the same form, being done at a wushu tournament - apparently the form you linked to is one of the standardized baji wushu routines (a number of the comments stated the same thing...)

http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/5278195-1130869430.html

here's the same form being done by a "Taoist monk" (apparently baji is BIG at wu dang...:rolleyes:)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/782736/ba_ji_quan/

I watched the Wudang one but the other one is taking so long to load that by the time that it loads, David Jamieson and Bawang will have found authentic kung fu schools that actually accept them as students.

Seriously though, I would be interested in Omarthefish's take on these videos and their wushu-ness as in modern performance forms or as wushu-ness as in fighting art forms.

[omarthefish]

Question:


What do you mean by nobody else shouts? Do you mean in Baji or a more broader context?
Answer:

I suppose it's like kiai within the Japanese schools of thought. He means within Bajiquan, since it is stated within the quanpu as part of the system's fundamental theories.
;)

evidently he can - here's the same form, being done at a wushu tournament - apparently the form you linked to is one of the standardized baji wushu routines (a number of the comments stated the same thing...)

http://video.sina.com.cn/v/b/5278195-1130869430.html

here's the same form being done by a "Taoist monk" (apparently baji is BIG at wu dang...:rolleyes:)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/782736/ba_ji_quan/
Yep. I've been to quite a number or those which is why I could recognize the demo from the opening post immediately as a modern standardized form. I emphasized "standardized because that's the key point, not "wushu". Inside of China, "wushu" doesn't so narrowly refer to modern standardized MA. Traditional forms in China are often referred to a "traditional wushu". What we call "wushu", the mainland Chinese call "modern wushu". The basic meaning of the word "wushu" after all, just means "martial arts".


Omar what do you think about Zhou Jingxuan's Bajiquan? What lineage is he from also?

Just sheer curiosity.

Cheers,

-V
To copy and past from a post I made back on page 3:

Zhou Jingxuan:
His stuff comes from Wu Xiufeng, a close relation to the Wu family. I love his speed and explosiveness but again, lots of Pigua in his stuff. He also lacks the kind of really heavy, solid root that the Wu-Tan guys tend to get so well. Just for his speed alone though he makes my list of favorite 3 or 5 online Baji performers.
Edit:
Wu Xiufeng obviously is part of the Wu family. I mean he is a close relation to Wu Lianzhi.

[omarthefish]

More "excellent" Bajiquan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR9tEzAbLU0

Purple velvet pajamas on the right is my Shifu...at 70 years old. :)

I'm the one in the middle at the back of the group.

[Hardwork108]

Question:

Answer:

;)

Yep. I've been to quite a number or those which is why I could recognize the demo from the opening post immediately as a modern standardized form. I emphasized "standardized because that's the key point, not "wushu". Inside of China, "wushu" doesn't so narrowly refer to modern standardized MA. Traditional forms in China are often referred to a "traditional wushu". What we call "wushu", the mainland Chinese call "modern wushu". The basic meaning of the word "wushu" after all, just means "martial arts".


To copy and past from a post I made back on page 3:
Edit:
Wu Xiufeng obviously is part of the Wu family. I mean he is a close relation to Wu Lianzhi.

Very interesting take and thank you.

I am just curious why on a Chinese site the videos posted by Taai Gihk Yahn were referred to as Wushu and not modern Wushu?

[omarthefish]

Cuz those clips were both from mainlaind China. Inside of China, nobody really cares. "Wushu", to a PRC Chinese dude just means "martial arts". "Modern" and "traditional" are just adjectives you can add to be more specific. In general, colloquial Chinese speech, it's all just "wushu".

[Hardwork108]

Cuz those clips were both from mainlaind China. Inside of China, nobody really cares. "Wushu", to a PRC Chinese dude just means "martial arts". "Modern" and "traditional" are just adjectives you can add to be more specific. In general, colloquial Chinese speech, it's all just "wushu".

Oh, I see.....

[Frost]

This thread has been good on so many levels, bawang basically spanked the correct with his original post about the clip, only to be shot down because he doesn’t have the real authentic kung fu, several others were argued with because they too couldn’t recognise the real thing, at least according to the thread starter, and then omarthefish came on the thread owned it and the TS with some very insightful and useful posts….

Add to this the love in between two people…who you knew were going to find each other as soon as one of them started posting a few weeks ago and its been a great read

[Brule]

This really gets your day off to an interesting start while sipping the morning coffee, or kool-aid for some.

[SPJ]

1. the greatness of baji lies in the straighforwardness or directness.

no flowering or excessive moves or pre moves.

2. it excels in closeness combat.

3. kao from every part of the body is the main signature or characteristic.

4. it is considered the hardest among the hardness. (kang)

and yet there is also lots of gentleness (ruo)

5. needing conditioning of body parts for kao practice

6. needing to learn how to wield extra long pole/spear to get strong and correct body structure and the waist power.

without 5 and 6, everything is in the thin air.

or fluffy.

7. grinding stomp, or stamp is part of the power story.

without 7, it is not baji.

----

:)

[Hardwork108]

This thread has been good on so many levels, bawang basically spanked the correct with his original post about the clip, only to be shot down because he doesn’t have the real authentic kung fu,
Well, that is his fault for not having the real authentic kung fu.



several others were argued with because they too couldn’t recognise the real thing, at least according to the thread starter,

It was not about not recognizing the real thing. It was about what I found to be a beautifully performed form - stances and postures included. Nothing more.

I did later on post a video that showed the REALZ Baji, which, if memory serves me right, no one conveniently commented on. The form was not that great to look at but just like Omarthefishes form, was real kung fu.


and then omarthefish came on the thread owned it and the TS with some very insightful and useful posts….

And I am grateful to him, because among other things, he trains Baji, and unlike you and most others in this forum, he is a genuine kung fu student.


Add to this the love in between two people…who you knew were going to find each other as soon as one of them started posting a few weeks ago and its been a great read

Well, as you know, love makes the world go around....:D

[Hardwork108]

So, just to round things of. I found the form performed on the clip estetically beautiful and IMHO it did possess some Baji essence. However, as others in this thread, with more experience than me in Baji have pointed out, there are more authentic and genuine ways for the same form.

So, the point is taken. In reality, from my reading on Baji, one of the real deal masters of this style is- Liu Yun Chiao. This is the type of guy, I would go to learn real Baji from. Of course, his forms are not so estetically beautiful, which is of course, another subject matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pRepVNFolo



I did post a clip of him which everybody here seems to have conveniently "forgot".

[YouKnowWho]

Our concept of "root" is very different from the mainstream. I have gone a bit overboard with the search for speed and explosivity and have actually been trying to tone it back a bit to get more stability lately. It's not a balance issue. I mean that sense of smooth, traveling on rails, power. Once I get that though, I'll speed it back up again.
The static rooting may be important in the beginner training stage but it's not important after you have entered your intermediate or advance training stage. To be able to regain your balance after you lose it is much valuable skill to have.

This is why I strongly dislike the static Taiji push hands. It makes you to be afraid to move your feet around.

[SPJ]

The static rooting may be important in the beginner training stage but it's not important after you have entered your intermediate or advance training stage. To be able to regain your balance after you lose it is much valuable skill to have.

This is why I strongly dislike the static Taiji push hands. It makes you to be afraid to move your feet around.

kao has to start with body contact or very close range.

so inch power (cun jin) is very important. (inch punch with your whole body)

so the practice of rooting or downward sinking power is very important in ba ji.

tai chi stresses sprialing from dan tian and waist or circling

ba ji stresses kao

both need strong rooting and minute movement or inch power.

static posture is absolutely needed in practice.

:cool:

[YouKnowWho]

static posture is absolutely needed in practice.

I think "momentum - run your opponent down" is more important than the static posture.

[bawang]

people think baijiquan is so deadly because they stomp their feet and make a big noise

[omarthefish]

Hey Wolfen, aren't you supposed to be busy hunting me down for a beatdown or something...

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35835

It's been 7 years already. I'm starting to get anxious. :p

[SPJ]

people think baijiquan is so deadly because they stomp their feet and make a big noise

1. grinding step is common across all styles, such as tai chi and ba gua.

but grinding stomp is highly developed in ba ji.

depending on the shoes you wear and the ground surface (dirt, mattress or grass)

grinding may create jiu sound and stomp creates stomp sound.

when you land your front sole, a counter power from the ground is transferred upto your dan tian. and then you land your heel and sink your posture and power back to the ground. coupled with breathing and voicing heng or ha.

2. in tong bei, it is called deng and ta, you land your front sole and spring up, the power from the ground is transferred to the hand, you land your heel and sink your posture and hand to strike the opponent.

---

:)

[SPJ]

Hey Wolfen, aren't you supposed to be busy hunting me down for a beatdown or something...

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35835

It's been 7 years already. I'm starting to get anxious. :p

wow it has been 7 years.

me feels me getting old.

:D

[SPJ]

I think "momentum - run your opponent down" is more important than the static posture.

agreed.

but starting and ending posture or body structure are also very important.

:cool:

[SPJ]

bai.. ji... quan?


Ohhh! 百雞拳!

Old "Hundred Chicken Fu"

Hundred Chickens scare big noise, scratch feet, all right!

yes hundred cranes sing at the same time.

bai he qi ming

白鹤齐鸣

or hundred family/school of thoughts struggle to sound louder

bai jia zheng ming

百家争名

---

:)

[omarthefish]

Here's a Baji set (small frame) that is both good looking and really f'ing effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfgaxxySGSQ

Smooth, rooted, extremely powerful and all the moves make tactical sense.

[SPJ]

1. yes. xiao jia is based on liang yi ding posture

it focuses on horizontal power or longitudinal power and movements (heng xiang and zhong xiang).

2. on top of up and down power (xia cheng or cheng zui jin).

3. there is also cross power or shi zi jin.

4. small entanglement or xiao chan and large entanglement or da chan (circles).

5. there are circles inside and outside of square/boxy structure.

6. there are relaxation (harnessing) and release power phases.

---

:cool:

[SPJ]

my point is that there are also a lot throws in xiao jia

if you express powers as if they are all about strikes

that is not correct.

peace out.

:)

[Water-quan]

I hate to break it to you but. . . bawang nailed it. That video is pretty cool but the main thing it has going for it is decent editing and a really cool setting for the filming. As actual traditional gongfu goes....lol. He's doing a pretty standard wushu version. The clip is labeled "Shaanxi Bajiquan". I live in Shaanxi. I'm pretty familiar with who's doing what out here.

I can go into specifics on what he's doing wrong from a practical perspective if you want. His movements are crisp and clean but mostly useless.


Oh yeah, unlike the rest of you practical minded heroes. At least he looks cool - that's easily ten steps better than 'sounding tough'.

[SPJ]

when tsunami hit Japan, we witness the destruction that the power of the nature could bring.

people find comfort in believing something greater would be in charge such as god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xfRP-aEkmo&feature=related

we admire the greatness of nature, we also know that human is just too small in the presence of nature.

scenes of china

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CireyeRo8q4

ba ji means extreme places in 8 directions or all directions

some like to define it as extreme uses of 8 body parts

ba ji is already greatest of the great

so the title great ba ji is like--

;)

[Water-quan]

Oh noes, Kung Fu Panda has got the 10 step program to look cool!

But your perception about the general tone (hysterical?..fanatic?... something like that...) of the responses seems to have some merit.

Basically you got guys in the west training kung fu two or three nights a week who want to maintain the fantasy that somehow what they do is better than guys who train five hours a day in China.

They tell themselves that they focus on the practical side, and that's why guys from China look so much better, when the truth is, the guys from China just are better, by a ridiculously long way. Because they train more and have access to the best teachers.

Problem is, that doesn't mean any of it is 'practical' anyway- it just means that it's always funny to see the fatties and the people who can barely throw a punch falling over their guts to inisist that their total lack of athleticism, grace and skill is the fault of other people who train just to look good.

If I'm going to do something that doesn't work, I'dat least hope to get fit and look good doing it.

[Water-quan]

Here's a Baji set (small frame) that is both good looking and really f'ing effective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfgaxxySGSQ

Smooth, rooted, extremely powerful and all the moves make tactical sense.

*rolls eyes* - didn't you get the memo? You can't tell how effective something is by looking at somone punch thin air.

[Drake]

Basically you got guys in the west training kung fu two or three nights a week who want to maintain the fantasy that somehow what they do is better than guys who train five hours a day in China.

They tell themselves that they focus on the practical side, and that's why guys from China look so much better, when the truth is, the guys from China just are better, by a ridiculously long way. Because they train more and have access to the best teachers.

Problem is, that doesn't mean any of it is 'practical' anyway- it just means that it's always funny to see the fatties and the people who can barely throw a punch falling over their guts to inisist that their total lack of athleticism, grace and skill is the fault of other people who train just to look good.

If I'm going to do something that doesn't work, I'dat least hope to get fit and look good doing it.


It's not about the time spent training. It's about the QUALITY of the training. Haven't you ever seen Rocky IV? However, I don't think these guys are training all that efficiently either, so I agree with you in that context.

And yes, athleticism is key. Seems a good number of fatties seem to ignore key tenets of their arts, such as rules about fitness and nutrition. There are rules about nutrition and fitness, and it seems people turn a blind eye to them.

[Hardwork108]

.....You can't tell how effective something is by looking at somone punch thin air.

That is a great point to be kept in mind. Sometimes we do not see the power nor the particular "energies" and their effects by just watching forms.

[omarthefish]

*rolls eyes* - didn't you get the memo? You can't tell how effective something is by looking at somone punch thin air.
Guess I missed it.

But aside from the memo...

It's a stupid memo. You can tell a fair bit IF you actually have experience in what is being demoed. A professional boxing coach can tell a metric ton of stuff from watching a boxer shadowbox. At the very minimum, I can tell you that his movements match perfectly with everything I know from experience about how Bajiquan works. Unlike the video that started this thread, I can't really find anything to nitpick about.

Besides that point, there is also the fact that I have met up with at least one of his students and that there are plenty of clips of this guy teaching applications, throws, lots of good stuff. As a 10 year Baji disciple, I can tell you that, from every angle that I can analyze this guy (Lu Baochun) his Baji is world class.

Have you never appraised one of the old Japanese masters performance of Sanchin?

Yeah, the memo can kiss my ***

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKUC4l3pfCQ&feature=related

wushu ba ji.

:)

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0912Hf0LPXo&feature=related

elementary school ba ji.

:)

[hungheikwan]

Another great thread! Special thanks to SPJ for the insights into Bajiquan. The two forms that I practice I got from Tony Yang, but I deeply love this style, and appreciate everyone's comments.

[KC Elbows]

Basically you got guys in the west training kung fu two or three nights a week who want to maintain the fantasy that somehow what they do is better than guys who train five hours a day in China.

They tell themselves that they focus on the practical side, and that's why guys from China look so much better, when the truth is, the guys from China just are better, by a ridiculously long way. Because they train more and have access to the best teachers.

Problem is, that doesn't mean any of it is 'practical' anyway- it just means that it's always funny to see the fatties and the people who can barely throw a punch falling over their guts to inisist that their total lack of athleticism, grace and skill is the fault of other people who train just to look good.

If I'm going to do something that doesn't work, I'dat least hope to get fit and look good doing it.

And you're experiences in China are...?

The main reason I ask is that in my time there, while the best teacher I met was great, most others were just as skilled as lifelong martial artists anywhere else.

[YouKnowWho]

When we talk about Baji, we have to mention 马英图(Ma Ying Tu).

http://tupian.hudong.com/a4_78_62_01300000244640122381620634857_jpg.html?pr d=zhengwenye_left_neirong_tupian

http://tupian.hudong.com/s/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE/xgtupian/1/2

http://tupian.hudong.com/s/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE/xgtupian/1/4

http://www.hudong.com/wiki/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE

[kowloonboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg
Baji Quan / Bajiquan

Bājíquán (Traditional Chinese: 八極拳; Pinyin: Bājíquán; literally "eight extremes fist"; Japanese: 八極拳, Hakkyokuken) is a Chinese martial art that features explosive, short range power and is famous for its elbow strikes. It originated in Hebei Province of Northern China, but is also well-known in other places as well today, especially Taiwan.

Origins
Bajiquan was originally called Baziquan (巴子拳 or 鈀子拳; literally "rake fist"), due to the fact that when not striking, the fist is held loosely and slightly open, resembling a rake. However, the name was considered to be rather crude sounding in its native tongue, and so it was changed to the more pleasing Bajiquan. The term baji, which comes from the oldest book in China, the I Ching, signifies "an extension of all directions." In this case, it means "including everything" or "the universe."

Made famous in recent times by Li Shuwen (1864-1934), a fighter from Shandong province whose skill with a spear earned him the nickname "God of Spear Li." His most famous quote about fighting was, "I do not know what it's like to hit a man twice."[1] Certainly a bit of hyperbole, but it still speaks for the shocking power Baji training develops. Li Shuwen's most famous students include Huo Diange (bodyguard to Pu Yi, the last Emperor of China), Li Chenwu (bodyguard to Mao Zedong), and Liu Yunqiao (secret agent for the nationalist Kuomintang and instructor of the bodyguards of Chiang Kai Shek). Because of this, Bajiquan has come to be known as "The Bodyguard Style".

Bajiquan shares roots with another Hebei martial art, Piguazhang. It is said that Wu Zhong, the oldest traceable lineage holder in the Bajiquan lineage, taught both arts together as an integrated fighting system.[2] They then slowly split apart, only to be remarried by Li Shuwen in the late 18th to early 19th century. As a testament to the complementary nature of these two styles, there is a Chinese martial arts proverb that goes: "When pigua is added to baji, gods and demons will all be terrified. When baji is added to pigua, heroes will sigh knowing they are no match against it." (八極參劈掛，神鬼都害怕。劈掛參八極，英雄嘆莫及)[3]

Today, the lineage holder of Bajiquan in China is Wu Lianzhi. He is also the prototype of Akira Yuki of Virtua Fighter fame. Through more than 50 years of training, he collected much material and records which were passed down from generation to generation.

Features
The major features of this school of Chinese martial arts include elbow strikes, arm/fist bashes, hip checks, and strikes with the shoulder. All techniques are executed with a very distinctive form of short power, developed through rigorous training; in Chinese martial arts, Baji is famous for its very violent and fast movements. Strategically, Baji focuses on in-fighting, entering from a longer range with Baji's distinctive charging step and issuing power up close.

The essence of Bajiquan lies in jin, or power-issuing methods, particularly fajin (explosive power). The style contains a total of six types of jin, eight different ways to hit and several different principles of power usage. Unlike most western forms of martial arts which require swinging motion to create momentum, most of Bajiquan's moves utilise a one-hit push-strike from very close range. The bulk of the damage is dealt through the momentary acceleration that travels up from the waist to the limb and further magnified by the charging step known as zhen jiao.

The mechanics of jin are developed through many years of practice and Bajiquan is known for its particularly strenuous lower-body training and its emphasis on the horse stance.[4] Its horse stance is higher than that of typical Long Fist styles. Like other styles, there is also "the arrow-bow stance", "the one-leg stance", "the Xū stance", "the Pū stance", etc. There are eight different poses of hands, plus different types of breath and zhen jiao.

The forms of Baji are divided into Fists (non-weapon) and Weapons. In Fist, there are more than 20 different forms, including 12 Baji Small Structure Fists, Baji Black Tiger Fist, Baji Dan Zhai, Baji Dan Da/Dui Da, Baji Luo Han Gong, and Baji Si Lang Kuan. In Weapons, there are more than eight different kinds of weapon, including the very famous Liu He Big Qiang (spear), Liu He Flower Qiang (spear), Chun Yang Jian (sword), San Yin Dao (sabre), Xing Zhe Bang (staff), Pudao, and Chun Qiu Da Dao (long two-handed heavy blade, used by Generals sitting on their horses).

Influences
There may not be that many styles in kung fu, that resemble Baji Quan. Because the Baji style focuses on being more direct, simple and powerful; unlike other styles of Kung Fu, that always tend to show its beauty and power through its movement. Even so, there are some styles that have derived by using Baji Quan’s main principles or concepts, on how to hit your opponent.

"Bashi" (Eight postures)
"Bashi Gong" (Eight movements method)
"Bashi Chui" (Eight striking Forms)
"Shuang Bashi" (Double Eight Postures),
"Jingang Bashi" (Eight postures of the Buddha Guards.)
"Longxing Bashi" (Eight postures of the Dragon Style).
Many of these forms are also based or mixed with Luohan Quan(A Shaolin style). The term Bashi Pashi may also refer to Baji. But it can also be noted that Bashi is also a term used in the style of Xingyi Quan.

Anyone practice this style here?

[David Jamieson]

Anyone practice this style here?

search function works.

[kowloonboy]

search function works.

Sorry my bad... :)

[SPJ]

it used to be a rare style.

it was popularized during kuo shu guan era among civilian and military in China.

ma yin tu/ma feng tu introduced it into kuo shu guan curriculum

it was popularized among college students in taiwan via wu tan.

ma feng tu popularized the style in northwest of china.

it is now popular in japan only second to tai chee (CMA in Japan).

--

na king central guo shu guan -> military,

wu tan -> taiwan college students---

--

:)

[kowloonboy]

it used to be a rare style.

it was popularized during kuo shu guan era among civilian and military in China.

ma yin tu/ma feng tu introduced it into kuo shu guan curriculum

it was popularized among college students in taiwan via wu tan.

ma feng tu popularized the style in northwest of china.

it is now popular in japan only second to tai chee (CMA in Japan).

--

na king central guo shu guan -> military,

wu tan -> taiwan college students---

--

:)

You are the first person, I ever met online and offline, which actually practice in this. Is this similar to Chen style Tai Chi and Ba Gua? Bajiguan experts was supposed to be the Martial Art which protect the emperor in the Ancient China.

[omarthefish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg
Baji Quan / Bajiquan

...snip...

Anyone practice this style here?

1. Did you have some sort of specific question about the style?

2. Where did you copy and paste that big description from?

[kowloonboy]

Where did you copy and paste that big description from?

I got it from Wiki.

[SPJ]

I think that

there are at least 2 baji schools in hongkong near where you live.

1. wutan, liu shi wu yi

2. chang chun ba ji (lineage from huo dian ge-> tan ji tang-> --- )

may search or look them up.

if you are interested in learning more.

:)

[bawang]

is chang chun similar to wing chun?

[omarthefish]

I got it from Wiki.

Ah. . .

The number of forms is vastly exaggerated. Baji is pretty **** sparse in the forms department actually. The Wiki lists:


...more than 20 different forms, including 12 Baji Small Structure Fists, Baji Black Tiger Fist, Baji Dan Zhai, Baji Dan Da/Dui Da, Baji Luo Han Gong, and Baji Si Lang Kuan.
lol. They gave 7 examples of forms I've never heard of and didn't bother listing any of the main forms that pretty much everybody does. Also, calling some of those things "forms" is pretty generous. It would be like calling the Xingyi 5 element fists a "form". For "fist" Baji pretty much just has large and small frame and that's it. 2 solo forms and 1 2-person form. Then there's a number of single movement drills like the Jingang Bashi or the Yingshou Ba Tang but those aren't forms. They are sets of drills, just single attacking patterns to be repeated back and forth.

Prolly some school out there comes from a lineage where somebody made up a bunch of other stuff and threw there own school curriculum up there on the Wiki. Baji weapons are sparse too. You got Sabre, staff, spear and that's about it. I've seen a Miao Dao form out there but it was just the Sabre form performed with a Miao Dao so that doesn't count in my book. ;)


Is this similar to Chen style Tai Chi and Ba Gua?
Yes and no, respectively.

[Ben Gash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ObA9OQOmKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raMJp_xi4zk&feature=related
These are two of those seven

[omarthefish]

Yeah, like I was saying. . . lol.

That's Shen Jiarui from the Wu Xiufeng group. It's somewhat well known that Wu Xiufeng added all sorts of stuff. Lot's of material that just came from Wu Xiufeng and is not part of the standard Baji curriculum. Secondly, that "danda" is just Dabaji. Don't know why it's labeled like that but it's still one of the 2 solo forms I mentioned. It's the large frame.

[omarthefish]

The Wiki also really dumbs down the Liu Da Kai:


Ding 頂: using the fist, elbow or shoulder to push forward and upward.
Bao 抱: putting arms together as if hugging someone. It is usually followed by Pi 劈 (splitting).[5]
Ti 提: elevating the knee to hit the thigh of the opponent, or elevating the foot to hit the shin of the opponent, etc.
Dan 單: using a single move.
Kua 胯: using the hip.
Chan 纏: entanglement with rotation around the wrist, elbow and shoulder
They are supposed to be jin/energies/qualities of movement, not tactics.

Wiki's are notoriously weak when it comes to MA.

[SPJ]

good job from the mod.

nice merging of an old thread with the new.

:)

[shaolin_allan]

so what would you guys/girls consider to be the right part of the forum to post about bajiquan? I just recently started training it and I was wondering who else here does or has done some of this awesome style?

[doug maverick]

main forum.

[Tiger on Duty]

I have to agree with some other practitioners on here it looks great from a performing point of view but is empty of baji intent.

Im from liu lineage and recognize good baji where i see it irrespective of family/club etc(politics isnt my game).

TBH i dislike this video.

However i do think lu bao chun has great fajing, meng cun(wu) have great applications(but to many forms), the sifu from tian jin has the best combat apps regarding baji and modern tactics imo(or against modern).

Liu lineage i like the elbow techniques and the spear like fajing, which is quite different from the other families and thats why i train in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C42rLogT-lk

Theres more stuff on my page so feel free if this baji captures your eye.

[SPJ]

When we talk about Baji, we have to mention 马英图(Ma Ying Tu).

http://tupian.hudong.com/a4_78_62_01300000244640122381620634857_jpg.html?pr d=zhengwenye_left_neirong_tupian

http://tupian.hudong.com/s/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE/xgtupian/1/2

http://tupian.hudong.com/s/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE/xgtupian/1/4

http://www.hudong.com/wiki/%E9%A9%AC%E8%8B%B1%E5%9B%BE

yes.

Ma brought Ba Ji into central kuo shu guan in Nan king in late 1920s.

Ba Ji was popular in both civilian and military kuo shu guan in 1930s.

:)

[Jimbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTxzd_LKIew&sns=em

[donnyir]

http://youtu.be/gsqc7gYDKHs

[SevenStar]

that was a good show, period. I liked the baji episode, also like the white crane episode and most of the others. not all of them are subtitled on youtube, but I watched them all anyway.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I always like this series.
Kung fu Quest was awesome.

What was always clear was how the application in combat/sparring was ALWAYS different than in the drills.
You would get some "flashes" of technique once and awhile, but typically it ended up looking like "kick boxing".

Why?
From my experience it is usually a combination of gross motor skills over fine motor skills AND the simple fact that the moves are trained in drills to counter attacks and defense that simply do NOT happen that way in free sparring.

[MightyB]

From my experience it is usually a combination of gross motor skills over fine motor skills AND the simple fact that the moves are trained in drills to counter attacks and defense that simply do NOT happen that way in free sparring.

Sometimes they do happen.

This is part of a longer video (which I cannot find anymore on youtube) of a Baji tournament.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYhqePytIGs

[SifuYui]

Nice video, but it may have been a somewhat choreographed event - meaning each person gets to show what Baji can do. If you watch it again, they alternate "winning" an encounter. First one person show's their technique and "wins", then the other person gets to show theirs and "wins" :)

[SevenStar]

yeah, that does look like a demo. Nice one, though. similar to training throw for throw in judo - I throw, you throw, etc

[Jimbo]

I always like this series.
Kung fu Quest was awesome.

What was always clear was how the application in combat/sparring was ALWAYS different than in the drills.
You would get some "flashes" of technique once and awhile, but typically it ended up looking like "kick boxing".

Why?
From my experience it is usually a combination of gross motor skills over fine motor skills AND the simple fact that the moves are trained in drills to counter attacks and defense that simply do NOT happen that way in free sparring.

Very true.

I also find that CMA styles that are highly specialized tend to look less like they're practiced when facing opponents outside of their own style, especially against someone who boxes/kickboxes. As you say, the attacks are not coming as they do in most traditional application drills. The "conventional" boxer/kickboxer isn't just allowing the practitioner into their space, and is also adjusting simply and naturally.

In my observation/experience, CMA styles that are more versatile and less specialized adjust better to such situations, as long as there is a good set of key skills that can work together flexibly and strategically. It's the same concept that makes boxing, MT, BJJ, wrestling, judo, etc., work the way they are practiced.

Realize that my meaning is the practitioner within the system. But IMO, some systems seem to contain that ability to adjust and adapt, or a greater potential for it within them, more than others.

[MightyB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqrzDGbIU-0

Some interesting applications (beginning) and drills (towards the end).

[Jimbo]

These vids have been posted around here before, but since this is a Baji thread, I feel they must be included here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47dn0P31BBw&sns=em

Continued next post...

[Jimbo]

...continued from previous post...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2tZ-FQmvLg&sns=em

[Jimbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2ZTh0RDLu8&sns=em

[SevenStar]

Very true.

I also find that CMA styles that are highly specialized tend to look less like they're practiced when facing opponents outside of their own style, especially against someone who boxes/kickboxes. As you say, the attacks are not coming as they do in most traditional application drills. The "conventional" boxer/kickboxer isn't just allowing the practitioner into their space, and is also adjusting simply and naturally.

In my observation/experience, CMA styles that are more versatile and less specialized adjust better to such situations, as long as there is a good set of key skills that can work together flexibly and strategically. It's the same concept that makes boxing, MT, BJJ, wrestling, judo, etc., work the way they are practiced.

Realize that my meaning is the practitioner within the system. But IMO, some systems seem to contain that ability to adjust and adapt, or a greater potential for it within them, more than others.

The CMA style I practice is one of those that has drills against very specialized attacks - like it's designed for encountering another southern CMA. Fortunately, my instructor is somewhat open minded, so if I see something that I think would not work the same way vs thai boxing and judo or based on my experience bouncing, I'll tell him that I don't think it would work. he asks why and we explore it. It's helped us both to learn more about our different systems.

[SPJ]

Wow, An old thread.

Many web links do not work any more.

Such is the short life of a website.

:(

[GeneChing]

John Cena heralds his '6th move of doom' dropping in Shanghai next month (http://www.timeoutshanghai.com/features/News-News/57284/John-Cena-heralds-his-6th-move-of-doom-dropping-in-Shanghai-next-month.html)
The city will sink another centimetre...
By Kenny Ong
Posted: Tuesday August 7 2018 3:35PM

http://img.timeoutshanghai.com/201808/20180807032220276.jpg
Image: HBO Films

When it was announced late last month that WWE Live would return to Shanghai on September 1, we could not see the professional wrestler, actor, philanthropist, television host and rapper John Cena among the lineup of vascular talents set to appear. But now, things have escalated quickly. Not only is he confirmed for the show, he has also announced plans to debut his '6th move of doom' at the show.

http://img.timeoutshanghai.com/20180807031455134.gif
via gfycat

http://img.timeoutshanghai.com/20180807123145949.jpg
Image: via Twitter (VPN required)

Cena, a marquee talent of the WWE franchise since the early 2000s, is known for five spectacular 'moves of doom' – the diving shoulder block, the sitout hip toss, the side-release spinout powerbomb, the Five Knuckle Shuffle and the Attitude Adjustment – all done to lead up to his 'victories'.

http://img.timeoutshanghai.com/20180807031605941.gif
via gfycat

http://img.timeoutshanghai.com/2018080703203793.gif
via gfycat

In a video interview released by WWE, Cena reveals more about this '6th move of doom' which he has been fine-tuning while training in Tianjin with Jackie Chan's stunt team. Yes, John Cena is training with Jackie Chan's stunt team. If anything, that says all you need to know about WWE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGjlTRAmLI
VPN required.

This '6th move of doom', according to Cena, is based on bajiquan, a Chinese martial art from Hebei province. He goes on to say, 'I couldn’t think of a better way to show my appreciation for China, Chinese people and Chinese culture than to debut what I think is a finishing move that will provide me much victory in Shanghai on Sept 1.'

Some might call that pandering, while others might call it being a 'cultural ambassador'. Yes, WWE wrestling, this confluence of athleticism, mythology, spectacle, politics and dramatic acting, is objectively a cultural exchange of sorts... for better or worse. You could also say John Cena's '6th move of doom' is a textbook case of Shanghai's iconic haipai, or 'east meets west' aesthetics. So this city is really the perfect place for the move's debut.

3 threads that I never thought would be relevant together for mutual posting:
Celebrities studying martial arts? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?41233-Celebrities-studying-martial-arts)
Mma & wwe (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?49901-Mma-amp-wwe)
Bajiquan (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?58651-Bajiquan)

[SPJ]

wow

:cool:

[GeneChing]

FEATURE / ART & CULTURE
Boxer marshals art to sustain family legacy (https://www.shine.cn/feature/art-culture/2001039122/?fbclid=IwAR17F8dl3gDzEvpgeUUy0cpfKYOhTp_FNxBkboTr pWY4D6Vnwjcnu4uaoeA)
Lu Feiran Tang Dafei Zhou Shengjie
18:49 UTC+8, 2020-01-03
People
Shot by Tang Dafei and Zhou Shengjie. Edited by Tang Dafei. Subtitles by Wang Xinzhou and Andy Boreham.

An Jianqiu displays black-and-white portraits of five generations of ancestors in his Shanghai martial arts club. At 38, he is the inheritor of the noble tradition of Chinese boxing and an ardent promoter of wushu.

An, born in Shandong Province, is not content to limit his scope to locals. He makes regular trips to Europe to hold workshops and has trained more than 1,000 foreign students.

“Wushu is about defending and attacking,” he says, “but it is also about cultivating one’s personality and inner quality.”

https://obj.shine.cn/files/2020/01/03/3de874ee-1c08-446a-afcd-b4ed4e831af3_0.jpg?x-image-process=style/style-watermark
https://obj.shine.cn/files/2020/01/03/a9a56240-0c2a-4cd9-80a6-adda725344e0_0.jpg?x-image-process=style/style-watermark
Tang Dafei / SHINE

An is the inheritor of bajiquan, a specialty of his family’s wushu that originated from Shaolin boxing.

An is neither tall nor beefy, but he possesses power in almost every part of his body — palms, shoulders, waist and knees. It’s the accumulation of training and practice that began when he was 6.

“My childhood was very different from others’,” he says. “I seldom had leisure time. Outside of school, it was wushu practice all the time, in the early morning and late at night, from basic body training to different styles of boxing.”

An had a very strict father, who was a master of the art. An describes him as a “traditional” man of extreme self-restraint, who wanted to pass on the same strict regime of standards to his son. There was a time, An says, when he loathed his father for depriving him of a normal childhood and treating him so harshly.

“Sometimes he could be violent,” An says. “I remember that I had very limited time to play video games back then. One time when he found me playing games secretly, he smashed the console right in front of my eyes.”

However, all that strictness eventually bred a son of superior boxing skills. An even mastered bajiquan, a specialty of his family’s wushu.

Bajiquan originated from Shaolin boxing. It features explosive, short-range power and relies heavily on elbow and shoulder strikes. It requires practitioners to parry attacks from all directions and strike back to the extremes of their power.

“You don’t use any weapons in bajiquan; you use your body parts as weapons,” An explains. “You have to harden your body parts, even your palms. At the same time, you need to cultivate your qi (energy flow) so that you can strike as swiftly and powerfully as possible. That’s why bajiquan, and Chinese wushu in general, is not only an art of fighting, but also an art of self-cultivation.”

According to local county annals, the first of the An family ancestors was An Lirui, a constable charged with catching criminals in the city of Tangshan in Hebei Province. He studied boxing with a Shaolin monk who had resumed secular life. An Lirui’s son An Jihai was a chef but learned wushu and then passed his skills on to his son and grandson, who is An’s father.

https://obj.shine.cn/files/2020/01/03/2e46daf5-788d-42a2-98b3-4851ceb68e52_0.jpg?x-image-process=style/style-watermarkhttps://obj.shine.cn/files/2020/01/03/ffc2ebf7-5f76-4520-8252-2bb9bc792a1f_0.jpg?x-image-process=style/style-watermark
Tang Dafei / SHINE

An teaches Chinese boxing to foreigners, both at home and abroad.

All the rigorous discipline demanded by that father eventually paid off. An Jianqiu began winning national championships in boxing at about the age of 20 and became a coach at the Beijing Language and Culture University. There, he had his first experience teaching wushu to foreign students.

“I find that most of my foreign students are truly interested in and respect wushu and Chinese culture in general,” he says. “Maybe that’s why they always persevere in practicing.”

Some European students, when they returned to their home countries, invited An to come and hold workshops. For the past several years, he has held workshops in Germany, Austria, Italy, Greece and about six other countries.

He schedules sessions of seven to 10 days, six hours each day. Every session has a theme, such as how to use bajiquan in actual combat.

His teaching videos can be found on YouTube. He is said to be one of the few Chinese wushu masters willing to teach actual combat skills.

“I find that Western students are respectful toward the etiquette and doctrines I ask them to follow,” he says. “Such rituals give them a sense of seriousness and help them get into the groove.”

At the same time, Western students don’t care about “face” in combat. In training, they are perfectly willing to bring their full strength to bear against an opponent, without worrying about hurting his feelings.

“This is obviously a cultural difference,” An says. “When I teach Chinese students, I often tell them to save each other’s ‘face,’ a concept deeply rooted in Chinese culture. But Western students don’t really care about that. They can fight hard in the ring and then hug each other afterward and still be friends.”

An says he started out uncertain about his future. Should he continue the family tradition of promoting wushu or perhaps maybe try something new?

He did, in fact, start to do some business with friends before he went into a long meditation about what kind of man he wanted to be. Reflecting on his family’s history, he finally decided to devote the rest of his life to wushu, but he’s not sure if his daughter will follow in his footsteps.

“Of course, I will give her guidance, but it’s up to fate to decide whether she will continue the same path,” An says. “To me, it is the same teaching my child as teaching anyone else.”

Source: SHINE Editor: Zhang Liuhao

Anyone know this master?

[Jimbo]

IMO, this brief vid is one of the better ones I’ve seen relating to Bajiquan and adapting aspects of it to competitive fighting. I’d like to see an MMA fighter who incorporates Baji into his style. If done correctly, I think it would be very effective, and different from what ‘everybody else’ is doing. Perhaps somebody in China already is. I almost never watch UFC/MMA fighting anymore at all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4XPVZjQ7KY

[Djuan]

Baji, for argument sake, always seemed to be a branch of Tong Bei Quan when I look at it, and practice it. It moves like a Luohan to me. Might be my bias interpretation again lol, just wonderin if anyone else see that, or knows why I see that correlation between Baji and Tong Bei Quan.

Amituofo