If Corporations are people?

[SanHeChuan]

If corporations are people does that make the stock market a slave market? :confused::eek::rolleyes:

[Hardwork108]

If corporations are people does that make the stock market a slave market? :confused::eek::rolleyes:

There may be more truth in that statement than many people realize.;)

[David Jamieson]

Only a slight flaw in the premise.

a corporation is a legal entity afforded the same legal rights as a person.

it's not the same thing exactly, but it is a shield against accountability of the agents within the corporation itself.

For example, you can be founder, CEO and Chair of a corporation that you own outright.

You can salary yourself every penny of profit and become wealthy off the back of the corporation and then, the corporation can falter and go bankrupt, but you, do not.

It is an offshoot and loophole that is the real engine of the capitalist model in use today.

[Drake]

If you go public, have fun trying to pull that off.

[David Jamieson]

If you go public, have fun trying to pull that off.

A PO Corp is yet another thing. The stock owners want the corp to tow the bottom line more than anything and the holders have no accountability for the actions of the corp in that respect either.

Majority shareholders really steer these outfits and it is their will that governs what the corp does day to day. they are not immune to what could be considered immoral or unethical activities. Big Oil companies are a perfect example of the PO corp that is not exactly responsible in it's actions or that will save costs at the expense of people or the environment. BP rig disaster is a perfect example, as are any number of oil spills across the world that are going on right now under the negligent gaze of these companies.

It's easy to slip any hold. Just sell your stock or quit the board and you're out and the carnage continues with someone else helming.

That's modern capitalism for you.

[Drake]

Nice edit.

Point is, no single person is responsible for the disaster. It's a community effort at failing.

[BJJ-Blue]

Point is, no single person is responsible for the disaster. It's a community effort at failing.

Wrong. It's all GW Bush's fault.

[David Jamieson]

Nice edit.

Point is, no single person is responsible for the disaster. It's a community effort at failing.

I didn't edit anything.

In today's world, democracy has been reduced to a dictatorship of the majority. There is no representative democracy taking place in North America. It's 51:49 and the 49 gotta eat what the 51 want. if it's 50/50 nobody gets nothing.

and yes, this is a direct result of neo-con control in government that in turn writes policies for capitalists to abuse the system.

when lobbyists control the rule of law, corporations control government and I think that has been made abundantly clear building up in the last century.

There cannot be sustained growth. There will be a fall.

[BJJ-Blue]

Wow David. Please tell me where you took Economics so I'll know to avoid that place like the plague.

We can have sustained growth, once Gov't gets the hell out of the way. History has shown this. Gov't intervention is what creates the problems.

If you say it's a problem of capitalism and unregulated markets, please explain how GW Bush's deregulation caused our current mess. Or duck that one too. ;)

[solo1]

You guys are NOT neighbors right?

[David Jamieson]

Wow David. Please tell me where you took Economics so I'll know to avoid that place like the plague.

We can have sustained growth, once Gov't gets the hell out of the way. History has shown this. Gov't intervention is what creates the problems.

If you say it's a problem of capitalism and unregulated markets, please explain how GW Bush's deregulation caused our current mess. Or duck that one too. ;)

Wow 1badbj. Please tell me where you took English reading comprehension so I'll know to avoid that place like the plague.

the government intervenes in the stock market to it's detriment? pray tell how that is done? Oh wait, I forgot, you are an apologist for greed and thievery.

As for your last line, I think your meds are wearing off, where did I say that or are you going to go with an MO of consistently and constantly put words down for others that they never said in an attempt to push your little fascist agenda here at KFM.

[BJJ-Blue]

the government intervenes in the stock market to it's detriment? pray tell how that is done? Oh wait, I forgot, you are an apologist for greed and thievery.

Time for you to learn 2 things. The first being how to answer someone else's questions in a debate.

One way the Gov't intervenes in the stock market is through capital gains taxes. Bill Clinton showed that when you lower capaital gains taxes, more money is invested in the stockmarket, thus increasing the value of many stocks, thus creating wealth. On the flip side, when you raise capital gains taxes, people tend to invest there less and pull their money out before the higher rates kick in, thus lowering the value of many stocks and thus destroying welath. Quite simple actually.

Will you answer my question now?

[David Jamieson]

Time for you to learn 2 things. The first being how to answer someone else's questions in a debate.

One way the Gov't intervenes in the stock market is through capital gains taxes. Bill Clinton showed that when you lower capaital gains taxes, more money is invested in the stockmarket, thus increasing the value of many stocks, thus creating wealth. On the flip side, when you raise capital gains taxes, people tend to invest there less and pull their money out before the higher rates kick in, thus lowering the value of many stocks and thus destroying welath. Quite simple actually.

Will you answer my question now?

yep, you don't get it and pin everything on singular events.

you think capital gains taxes are the primary governing factor for investment? You know nothing about money man. I'd hate to have your portfolio, it probably sucks and you have everything invested in gun manufacturers and oil companies. lol

dude, if i realize a profit, I don't care about taxes. I want to pay taxes! I like paying taxes!

The more taxes I pay, the more services and more civilization I get.

If you cannot comprehend the value of paying taxes for services, then I'm afraid you aren't even leaving the starting gate.


so, maybe you should be studying deeper instead of trying to ask silly question about why lower population density areas have black ink on their books as compared to the two most populated states in your country that support a huge portion of the population of your country and also generate some of the highest revenues.

But by all means, if you want to be all sunshine and texas , then great, you go do that pal. lol :rolleyes:

[BJJ-Blue]

yep, you don't get it and pin everything on singular events.

You asked how Government "intervenes in the stock market to it's detriment" and asked me to tell you how it's done. So I gave you an example. I did not say it was the only way, I simply gave you an example because you had asked for an example.

Unlike you, I answer questions asked of me.


you think capital gains taxes are the primary governing factor for investment?

No, I do not. And notice I never said that.


You know nothing about money man. I'd hate to have your portfolio, it probably sucks and you have everything invested in gun manufacturers and oil companies. lol

I know that when you spend more than you take in, you are asking for trouble. Apparently that's a foreign concept for liberals like you and Obama though.

My portfolio is fine. I didn't invest in Gov't bonds, or Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, or Government Motors. I also don't have any stock in gun manufacturers or oil companies. I do wish I had bought gold a few years ago. Had I known Obama would be spending paper money like an entire crew of drunken sailors, I'd have bought some the day after he won the election.


If you cannot comprehend the value of paying taxes for services, then I'm afraid you aren't even leaving the starting gate.

I know anytime the Government competes directly with private industry, I go with the private industry. After all, who do you trust with your mail more; the USPS or FedEx? Which one is a profitable company and which one bleeds BILLIONS of dollars?


so, maybe you should be studying deeper instead of trying to ask silly question about why lower population density areas have black ink on their books as compared to the two most populated states in your country that support a huge portion of the population of your country and also generate some of the highest revenues.

Whoa! Whoa! Are you actually trying to answer my question here?


But by all means, if you want to be all sunshine and texas , then great, you go do that pal. lol :rolleyes:

Considering Texas is the best State now for jobs and real estate, we must be doing something right. Unlike those deep blue States like New York and California who are teetering on bankruptcy, and in California's case, actually losing population.

[David Jamieson]

You asked how Government "intervenes in the stock market to it's detriment" and asked me to tell you how it's done. So I gave you an example. I did not say it was the only way, I simply gave you an example because you had asked for an example.

Unlike you, I answer questions asked of me.



No, I do not. And notice I never said that.



I know that when you spend more than you take in, you are asking for trouble. Apparently that's a foreign concept for liberals like you and Obama though.

My portfolio is fine. I didn't invest in Gov't bonds, or Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, or Government Motors. I also don't have any stock in gun manufacturers or oil companies. I do wish I had bought gold a few years ago. Had I known Obama would be spending paper money like an entire crew of drunken sailors, I'd have bought some the day after he won the election.



I know anytime the Government competes directly with private industry, I go with the private industry. After all, who do you trust with your mail more; the USPS or FedEx? Which one is a profitable company and which one bleeds BILLIONS of dollars?



Whoa! Whoa! Are you actually trying to answer my question here?



Considering Texas is the best State now for jobs and real estate, we must be doing something right. Unlike those deep blue States liek New York and California who are teetering on bankruptcy, and in California's case, actually losing population.

You are such a monumentally stupid person it is fun to give you the ribbing you deserve for being so blatantly foolish in your presumptions and ridiculous posturing.

We need at least one idiot like you, I mean, we have a few of the trollshido idiots hanging around here sniffing themselves and pretending to be all manly and such.

But really? lol

[BJJ-Blue]

If I'm so stupid, why is someone like Drake agreeing with me and laughing at you?

Please do tell. ;)

[BJJ-Blue]

You are such a monumentally stupid person it is fun to give you the ribbing you deserve for being so blatantly foolish in your presumptions and ridiculous posturing.

We need at least one idiot like you, I mean, we have a few of the trollshido idiots hanging around here sniffing themselves and pretending to be all manly and such.

Keep calling names and ducking questions. Par for the course for liberals losing the argument. How soon til you have to play the race card? :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

If I'm so stupid, why is someone like Drake agreeing with me and laughing at you?

Please do tell. ;)

if all the other myopic grunts are around me I must be right right?

right?

hello? it's dark in here....

you fecking moron. pathetic doesn't even touch on your ability to deal wit a topic and stick to it.

stunted doesn't quite describe your ability to understand what otehr communicate to you.

agenda is what you have. I believe you are a right wing shill trying to create internet noise and nothing more.

yep, I'm a classical liberal and I'm proud of it and when your brand of right wing mud slinging politics is gone and no more I will be only a tiny bit happier because really, your politics are dead and dying already. GOP and their neo-con base is viewed as an oddity and noisy minority. Glad they are on the way out. Let the actual conservatives man up and kick you squats out.

I will have an easier go in the future than you ever will because you think you're free and entitled to be so and I know this is not true. You can't face that truth, have zero understanding of that truth and will spend your days hopelessly railing against the reality that crashes you down over and over again.

no man is an island and no one is entitled to anything.

[BJJ-Blue]

if all the other myopic grunts are around me I must be right right?

Wow, now you're calling two people names. You must really be winning the debate now. :rolleyes:


you fecking moron. pathetic doesn't even touch on your ability to deal wit a topic and stick to it.

Please stop calling names. I've asked several times. Please act like an adult and debate without calling names.

I'm guessing now you are trying to get the thread locked. Time will tell...


agenda is what you have. I believe you are a right wing shill trying to create internet noise and nothing more.

No, I made a point and did it in question form and now I'd like you to refute it. If you can, of course.


You can't face that truth, have zero understanding of that truth and will spend your days hopelessly railing against the reality that crashes you down over and over again.

The truth is that rich, 'educated' blue states like New York and California are mired in debt and facing bankruptcy, while redneck, 'uneducated' States like Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas are not in that same boat.

And that truth has crashed down so hard on you, that you cannot refute it. You can only call names.


... no one is entitled to anything.

Including an answer to a simple question, apparently.

[Drake]

DJ... instead of sounding like a rabid bat... why not answer the questions? And WTF is up with you ALWAYS changing the subject when busted?

[David Jamieson]

DJ... instead of sounding like a rabid bat... why not answer the questions? And WTF is up with you ALWAYS changing the subject when busted?

Drake - Try to follow along. I answered teh question about his small minded blue state vs red state scenario liong ago. But because it bluntly smashed through his tiny brain, he couldn't actually perceive it as answered, and so, in some bizarre attempt to save face despite his ass hattedness extraordinaire, he figures asking teh same dumb thing over and over again is staying on message or something.

seriously, I wish I could give you a virtual nerf ball to chew on or something. lol

And I didn't change the subject. I pointed out a flaw or two that I saw in context to the original post. that is the point of a forum. If you're only here to seek validation, go talk to your mom for that. She probably thinks you're handsome and smart too. :p

[Drake]

Drake - Try to follow along. I answered teh question about his small minded blue state vs red state scenario liong ago. But because it bluntly smashed through his tiny brain, he couldn't actually perceive it as answered, and so, in some bizarre attempt to save face despite his ass hattedness extraordinaire, he figures asking teh same dumb thing over and over again is staying on message or something.

seriously, I wish I could give you a virtual nerf ball to chew on or something. lol

And I didn't change the subject. I pointed out a flaw or two that I saw in context to the original post. that is the point of a forum. If you're only here to seek validation, go talk to your mom for that. She probably thinks you're handsome and smart too. :p

Do you even read these posts? I have to wonder if you do, because half the time you are off topic, and the other half of the time nobody understands you because you are going off on some personal attack.

[David Jamieson]

Do you even read these posts? I have to wonder if you do, because half the time you are off topic, and the other half of the time nobody understands you because you are going off on some personal attack.

again falling back on "wah he called me a name".

of course I called you a name, you're both thick as cheese and keep spewing moronic reiterations of the same junk.

retards, the both of you.

[Drake]

More like "Wah, he makes no sense and isn't contributing anything to the discussion"