reaching a higher level

[ShaolinDan]

My first post: (On one of those really horrific threads)

Building a house
If you want to build a serviceable cottage in a simple location, you don't need to spend years studying architecture...that would be a waste of time...
If you want to be able to build unique structures in unique locations, and to teach others how to do so, then it will take you years and years of study before you can begin building.

The same is true for any skill--cooking, painting, writing, fighting...you name it.

What do YOU want to get out of the martial arts? It's not something the rest of us really have much say in.

There are as many martial roads as there are practitioners.



Kung fu is what it means. It's not about quick results, it's about a higher end.

Why spend so much time drilling? So you're not a sloppy fighter (or a sloppy person).
Techniques don't work for you? maybe you need to drill them more.

Kung fu is about cultivation. Not about a quick fix. When people ask me about my school I say, 'If you want to learn to fight ASAP we are the wrong place for you. But, if you want to spend the rest of your life with always something new to learn and eventually become better than you ever thought possible, then you should check us out.' Well, it's not exactly what I say, but that's 'cause I talk too much. But that's how it is.

I don't care if I don't have videos. I don't care if you don't believe me. I've seen real kung fu and it is very very very NICE. I know I'm not the only one here. (We're everywhere!)

Even at my pitiful beginner's level I have gotten much more from my training than I ever expected to when I decided to take up MA again.

You get what you give...you have to give more to KF than MMMA (Modern Mixed...), but over time the equation holds. (I've given a lot more than I expected too also, but it's so worth it)

It's all about whether you want to take the time to reach that higher level, or just want to be BAD ASAP.

Me, I was BAD before I started training.
Now that I've seen some real kung fu, I'm a super wimp. I've got a whole different standard now. It's going to take a long time and a lot of hard work to get where I'm going.

I think it's an absolute joke that this post seems relevant to me. It's basically a 'what's kung fu' post. But somehow it seems like it needs to be addressed again.
Hello? Anyone out there? Do you actually read any of the posts? There's a number of really great kung fu guys on this forum (at least as far as their writing on the subject goes). Open your eyes or ... I won't say it.

Kung fu= skill over time. This means more basics less sparring. (not none, less. You can understand that, right?) the idea is not to turn into another sloppy scrapper...which is apparently the only real martial artist around.

What a joke. Flame on. (Or better yet, go post a poem on my thread in the qigong/meditation forum)

Disclaimer: MMA is Awesome. Sparring/'live' training is critical. Kung fu still rocks your world.

really...I don't want to hear your response...just read and move along. go post a poem please.

[Drake]

It really all depends on what YOU want out of it. I am never going to be a master, and I'm fine with that. Ultimately, you'll never get THE STREETZ DEADLIEZ without... you know... fighting, you know... in the streets.

Most people get a better level of health, nice muscles, some clever observations on physiology, and better flexibility. Nothing wrong with that, really. I'm more worried about getting shot than roundhoused.

[ShaolinDan]

I'm more worried about getting shot than roundhoused.

Me too. :mad:

[SanHeChuan]

If you want to be able to build unique structures in unique locations, and to teach others how to do so, then it will take you years and years of study before you can begin building.

Those years of study include building simple cottages.

You don't wait until your a master to begin fighting...:rolleyes:

[Knifefighter]

Kung fu is about cultivation. Not about a quick fix. When people ask me about my school I say, 'If you want to learn to fight ASAP we are the wrong place for you. But, if you want to spend the rest of your life with always something new to learn and eventually become better than you ever thought possible, then you should check us out.' Well, it's not exactly what I say, but that's 'cause I talk too much. But that's how it is.

LOL @ the whole, it takes longer, but you end up with a higher level of skill, bullsh!t. If it takes longer to develop skill, it just means you are that much behind the curve at the upper levels of skill. MMA practitioners don't suddenly stop getting better at some arbitrary point while TMA people keep getting better. That is a ludicrous as thinking a kid who gets straight A's doesn't have an advantage in college.

[notanexit]

LOL @ the whole, it takes longer, but you end up with a higher level of skill, bullsh!t. If it takes longer to develop skill, it just means you are that much behind the curve at the upper levels of skill. MMA practitioners don't suddenly stop getting better at some arbitrary point while TMA people keep getting better. That is a ludicrous as thinking a kid who gets straight A's doesn't have an advantage in college.I was fed this same garbage at my former school,especially when I started doing fake taji.There were guys who've been studying for years who couldn't use one bit of what they've learned.It's sad that people are still being taken for a ride in TMA.

[Violent Designs]

I love how people seem to believe "combat sports" are also a "quick fix."

Ugh....

[YouKnowWho]

I don't want to hear your response...just read and move along.
Sorry that I didn't see this one (original post deleted). Not sure about the purpose of this thread if no response is allowed. :confused:

[bawang]

go post a poem please.
ok mang.

Babylon Revisited
Amiri Baraka

The gaunt thing
with no organs
creeps along the streets
of Europe, she will
commute, in her feathered bat stomach-gown
with no organs
with sores on her insides
even her head
a vast puschamber
of pus(sy) memories
with no organs
nothing to make babies
she will be the great witch of euro-american legend
who sucked the life
from some unknown ******
whose name will be known
but whose substance will not ever
not even by him
who is dead in a pile of dopeskin

This ***** killed a friend of mine named Bob Thompson
a black painter, a giant, once, she reduced
to a pitiful imitation ***got
full of American holes and a monkey on his back
slapped airplanes
from the empire state building

May this ***** and her sisters, all of them,
receive my words
in all their orifices like lye mixed
cocola and alaga syrup

feel this ****, *****es, feel it, now laugh your
hysterectic laughs
while your flesh burns
and your eyes peel to red mud

[David Jamieson]

I love how people seem to believe "combat sports" are also a "quick fix."

Ugh....

they aren't a quick fix, but in a class context they can produce a false sense of ability as easily as a kung fu class.

a beginner is a beginner, but they all have their eyes set on the end and often, this is detrimental to moving along the path laid out before them regardless of the line of study.

there's a lot of one year mma pracs who like to think they are the sh1t just as much as there are 1 year karate or kung fu or tkd guys who figure they're the deadly as well.

the longer you go, the more honed you become. except in the case of a couple of people who are outliers and despite their experience seem quite bitter. lol

[taai gihk yahn]

Kung fu is what it means. It's not about quick results, it's about a higher end.
if you had some sense of the socio-historical context of why this belief permeates, you might realize how funny it is to hear you (and others) proclaim it as if they actually understood it...as far as a "higher end", what,exactly would that be in your estimation? are you shooting for your Shen bursting out of your 10,000 Meetings point? or are you looking for finally ending the cycle of death and rebirth? if so, you better polish that stone a little less...


Why spend so much time drilling? So you're not a sloppy fighter (or a sloppy person).
no; the way to not be a sloppy fighter is to fight and receive correction about how you function in that context


Techniques don't work for you? maybe you need to drill them more.
or maybe you need different techniques, or better strategy, or better conditioning


Kung fu is about cultivation. Not about a quick fix. When people ask me about my school I say, 'If you want to learn to fight ASAP we are the wrong place for you. But, if you want to spend the rest of your life with always something new to learn and eventually become better than you ever thought possible, then you should check us out.' Well, it's not exactly what I say, but that's 'cause I talk too much. But that's how it is.
this is quite the conceit - the sub-text implication is that you are better than others who want a "quick fix"; tell you what - next time you have your arm ripped off in a thresher or systemic sepsis, when you go to the hospital, and they offer you the "quick fix", try to remember that it's about cultivation...


I don't care if I don't have videos. I don't care if you don't believe me. I've seen real kung fu and it is very very very NICE. I know I'm not the only one here. (We're everywhere!)Even at my pitiful beginner's level I have gotten much more from my training than I ever expected to when I decided to take up MA again.
that's awesome - why then do you feel the need to project your experience in a generalized manner?


You get what you give...you have to give more to KF than MMMA (Modern Mixed...), but over time the equation holds. (I've given a lot more than I expected too also, but it's so worth it)
aside from what you personally perceive as being worth it, which no one can say as being otherwise, that's just a ridiculous, biased statement with no basis in reality


It's all about whether you want to take the time to reach that higher level, or just want to be BAD ASAP.
more elitist conceit


Me, I was BAD before I started training.
Now that I've seen some real kung fu, I'm a super wimp. I've got a whole different standard now. It's going to take a long time and a lot of hard work to get where I'm going.
if that is the medicine you need, then take it; for others, it may not be;


I think it's an absolute joke that this post seems relevant to me. It's basically a 'what's kung fu' post. But somehow it seems like it needs to be addressed again.
Hello? Anyone out there? Do you actually read any of the posts? There's a number of really great kung fu guys on this forum (at least as far as their writing on the subject goes). Open your eyes or ... I won't say it.
you seem to be in a awful hurry to "teach" - what happened to being a beginner and having to cutivate a "long time"?


Kung fu= skill over time. This means more basics less sparring. (not none, less. You can understand that, right?) the idea is not to turn into another sloppy scrapper...which is apparently the only real martial artist around.
again, more ridiculousness - your subjective perspective is in direct opposition to a large body of objective research regarding motor skill acquisition; the way to get better at basics, is to practice basics; the way to get better at sparring is to practice sparring, but under appropriate conditions;


What a joke. Flame on. (Or better yet, go post a poem on my thread in the qigong/meditation forum)
Disclaimer: MMA is Awesome. Sparring/'live' training is critical. Kung fu still rocks your world.
really...I don't want to hear your response...just read and move along. go post a poem please.
you may want to have your teacher regulate some of your internal practice, it seems to be playing havoc with your cortical processing;

as for a poem:

I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.

I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
When the wind blows the water white and black.

We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
- excerpt from "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock", T.S. Eliot

[MasterKiller]

All you guys talking about cultivation realize that it takes 10 years or more to get a BJJ black belt, right?

And you got your kung fu black sash in what, 3...4?

[taai gihk yahn]

All you guys talking about cultivation realize that it takes 10 years or more to get a BJJ black belt, right?

And you got your kung fu black sash in what, 3...4?

just because they practice Eight Brocade and do a little sitting meditation, people like to talk about "cultivation" as if they are frickin' Boddidharma, without having even the SLIGHTEST notion of what it actually means...

[MightyB]

Here's how you all can reach a higher level in TCMA or something else.

It is THE answer to all of your questions.





The one and only golden truth.






The fixture to all of your fallacies.





Ready for it.





You better sit down 'cuz it will blow your mind...




And it's sooooo easy even your Ma can do it!









ok



without further ado.





here it is...




wait for it...






wait...



for...



it...




Here's the answer:





Know why your training and what your training for. Be specific and honest with yourself. You'll find the right training as long as your specific and honest with YOURSELF. :)

[taai gihk yahn]

Know why your training and what your training for. Be specific and honest with yourself. You'll find the right training as long as your specific and honest with YOURSELF. :)
I'd say that the key eement is "yourself" - in other words, whie you may think that you have unlocked the secrets of the universe, think twice before proclaiming them as "teh corr3ct" for anyone else...that goes as much for the MMA realists just as it does for the TCMA fantasists...

[ShaolinDan]

Great. Very educational responses. I learned a lot from this post.
Thanks TGY and bawang for the poems...course I meant post them on my poems thread, but, thanks anyway. :)

I said I didn't care about responses because I didn't want to get in another pointless discussion. Sorry. I posted the original post because I feel like saying something like it on nearly every thread these days.

Seems like I was better off just letting y'all talk. :)
Reading comprehension is not so great maybe. I don't think I said most of the things I'm being told I said...(at least not with the connotations being attributed).

MMA is good. Kung fu is good. They both have their strengths/weaknesses. Neither one is useless. Developing our tools is what training is about...there's more than one way to do this. Why just do it one way, when you can do it in many ways?

[MightyB]

Sooo... if you want to cultivate chi - do standing postures and meditation.

if you want "street self defense" - work applications until you can pull them off in a live situation under stress.

If you want to look like Jet Li with a sword - work the most awesome sword form you have. Work on endurance and flexibility. Work on isolated movements until you achieve perfection.

If you want MMA - crosstrain BJJ with San Da or Thai. Don't pretend you have it in your style when you don't. Go somewhere to learn it, and, if your sifu's willing, by all means bring it back.

[David Jamieson]

just because they practice Eight Brocade and do a little sitting meditation, people like to talk about "cultivation" as if they are frickin' Boddidharma, without having even the SLIGHTEST notion of what it actually means...

lol, seriously, this made me laugh out loud.

Things are funny because they are true.

There are so many faux buddhists, yogis and flakes it is a long wade to the deep end.

In close proximity to my own home there are services offered, classes, shops, holistic medicine places, and all that stuff and I don't subscribe to any of it. there is nothing beyond the superficial in any of these offerings around me. Meanwhile, the real is available and it's a trip elsehwere to get to it

I think I can thank my father for that because when I was a kid he showed me what a friggin real difficult, tiresome, down-heartening, self abusing, hard path it is to actually pursue Kung Fu in your life in any effort.

Ultimately, in the long run, I think this has helped me to acquire my "eye".

The filter of knowing is powerful but only in context to the individual viewpoint. :)

[MightyB]

the problem arises because we want it ALL too soon and without the proper mindset on each step... and you have to accept the fact that you might not have enough time to reach all of your goals in every area - but you can significantly speed up the process through isolating each goal.

Don't mix forms perfection with street self defense. Master one thing first - then move on.

Let's say you know that you're not good at defending kicks... have everyone start kicking you with you only working defense. Have them kick you with every type of kick known to man. Work it like it's hot, eventually you'll get good defending kicks. Then move on to punches... etc.

[SPJ]

if you plant a tree or grow a cabbage in your garden

you know you have to water, use some fertilizer, pick out the weeds--

daily attention

yes to reach excellence or mastery, it takes time (kung and fu)

Kung fu is not magic but diligence daily, Kung fu is basic, basic and basic

just like a trea or a cabbage growing daily

--

I was shown many sword forms

I dewildered about what to do

my teacher said, you only have to practice some basic methods daily and learn how apply each method that is enough.

it is not about how many forms you remember, but about how well you learn and use each single sword method.

an axe down or pi jian only, if you learn well, you master it well, that is way better than many forms that you do not know how to use them well.

it is about quality and not quantities with low quality.

---

when do the trees grow higher or bigger?

in time,

to reach a high level takes time

takes kung and fu.

---

where is the magic?

daily diligence.

---

[wenshu]

@TGY
subtextual implication is a tautology. Just saying.

If rudimentary qi gong and zuo chan are not cultivation what is? Don't mean this antagonistically, I'm genuinely curious how you would define cultivation.

There is inherent conceit in the view that gong fu is not about fighting its about self-cultivation. It is really more of an excuse.

Its not the styles that are the problem, it's the practitioners.

To Himself
Giacomo Leopardi

Now will you rest forever,
My tired heart. Dead is the last deception,
That I thought eternal. Dead.
Well I feel
In us the sweet illusions,
Nothing but ash, desire burned out.
Rest forever.
You have Trembled enough.
Nothing is worth Thy beats,
nor does the earth deserve Thy sighs.
Bitter and dull Is life, there is nought else.
The world is clay.
Rest now. Despair For the last time.
To our kind, Fate Gives but death.
Now despise Yourself, nature, the sinister
Power that secretly commands our
common ruin,
And the infinite vanity of everything.

[Sardinkahnikov]

As the guy above said, daily diligence is the key, IMO. Stretching, crunches, squats, chin ups, push ups, etc - what you need to cultivate is the discipline to endure this routine in order to forge your body and your mental toughness. You have to get it on gradually tho, otherwise you'll end up getting injured and frustrated; DISCIPLINE is the hardest aspect of training, specially since modern life doesn't contribute much to it.